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Bjarne Stroustrup On Educating Software Developers
jammag writes "Bjarne Stroustrup, creator of C++ and a professor at Texas A&M, weighs in on the problems in today's CS programs. In particular, Java (there's too much of it), the quality of graduates (companies aren't happy), and the need to balance the theoretical and the practical (long overdue). Not pulling punches, Stroustrup even talks about high schools — 'High schools could teach students to work hard at something (just about anything), to search out information as needed, and learn to express their ideas in writing and orally.' He finishes by giving advice to working developers: 'Serious programming is a team sport, brush up on your social skills. The sloppy fat geek computer genius semi-buried in a pile of pizza boxes and cola cans is a mythical creature, best buried deep, never to be seen again.'" Read on for more choice quotes from the quotable professor.
I have even had questions from strangers in airplanes: "You're a professor? In software? Have you got any students? Here's my card."
The US industry could absorb more good developers than there are currently students enrolled in IT-related programs — but not all of those programs and all of those students would qualify as "good" in this context.
The companies are complaining because they are hurting. They can't produce quality products as cheaply, as reliably, and as quickly as they would like. They correctly see a shortage of good developers as a part of the problem. What they generally don't see is that inserting a good developer into a culture designed to constrain semi-skilled programmers from doing harm is pointless because the rules/culture will constrain the new developer from doing anything significantly new and better.
The contemporary Math, Physics, and Biology books I have seen are far, far more conceptually challenging than what we present to CS and engineering students in the area of programming.
I think the ultimate aim is to make programming more of an engineering discipline, more mathematical or scientific; "craft" and "art" are both needed, but there ought to be a scientifically based core on which people can base their craft and art. Software design and implementation is more than a craft; there is more math, science, and engineering to know and apply than is customary for fields we call "crafts." Incidentally, I find it appalling that you can become a programmer with less training than it takes to become a plumber.
I have even had questions from strangers in airplanes: "You're a professor? In software? Have you got any students? Here's my card."
The US industry could absorb more good developers than there are currently students enrolled in IT-related programs — but not all of those programs and all of those students would qualify as "good" in this context.
The companies are complaining because they are hurting. They can't produce quality products as cheaply, as reliably, and as quickly as they would like. They correctly see a shortage of good developers as a part of the problem. What they generally don't see is that inserting a good developer into a culture designed to constrain semi-skilled programmers from doing harm is pointless because the rules/culture will constrain the new developer from doing anything significantly new and better.
The contemporary Math, Physics, and Biology books I have seen are far, far more conceptually challenging than what we present to CS and engineering students in the area of programming.
I think the ultimate aim is to make programming more of an engineering discipline, more mathematical or scientific; "craft" and "art" are both needed, but there ought to be a scientifically based core on which people can base their craft and art. Software design and implementation is more than a craft; there is more math, science, and engineering to know and apply than is customary for fields we call "crafts." Incidentally, I find it appalling that you can become a programmer with less training than it takes to become a plumber.
I am _not_ fat.
The sloppy fat geek computer genius semi-buried in a pile of pizza boxes and cola cans is a mythical creature, best buried deep, never to be seen again
Be careful. They're easily frightened, but they'll soon be back, and in greater numbers.
Try using a tag team. Maybe if each programmer had a cheerleader coordinating his efforts, he could get his production up.
The sloppy fat geek computer genius semi-buried in a pile of pizza boxes and cola cans is a mythical creature, best buried deep, never to be seen again.
But RMS isn't going anywhere !
While probably safe for work, I don't actually want anyone to see this, but I found one!
If you are about to mod me down, keep in mind that this post was most likely sarcastic.
My production would definitely be down if I had a cheerleader. Depending, of course, on what she looked like...
Developers: We can use your help.
As a pizza delivery driver, I have to take exception to this. I see all kinds of folks but one guy in particular stands out. He always orders at least a large pizza and two lasagnas, usually with 2 or 3 2L bottles of pop and a couple (or three!) slices of cheesecake.
He weighs a good 400lbs, has 3 monitors and a laptop on the go at all times (one monitor for CSI or whatever show, one for a terminal, one for IM), with WoW on the go on the laptop. His desk has a path cleared to it amongst piles and piles of garbage - empty pizza boxes, empty takeout containers, half-eaten food..
Such a sight to behold.
So no, they're not extinct.
But, where then would Slashdot get its readers?
Bruce Perens.
Indeed. Besides, the whole "building vs. programming" analogy is silly. If designing buildings was like programming, architects would have to deal with all new materials every few months (can't use the old ones), they'd have customers insisting that walls are best placed leaning 10 degrees out of true, and the foundation under the building would (magically) be changed every few years, with the building having to remain upright on whatever it was standing on. And if the construction crews put a doorknop on wrong, the whole building might come crashing down when someone opened the wrong window.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
'The sloppy fat geek computer genius semi-buried in a pile of pizza boxes and cola cans is a mythical creature, best buried deep, never to be seen again.'
Uh...guys? I'm right here! Under the pizza boxes! I was trying to nibble some of the last bits of cheese off the boxes, and I slipped. Guys? Where are you going? (Lights click off.) Guys? This isn't funny!
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
First Stroustrup complains Java is a major ill of CS curiculum, and then Sun says that Java solves all the problems of people who have C++ implementations. And for my next feat I will find an article with the Democrats blaming Bush for something. :-\
/pedant
Quotes is a verb. I'm sure you meant to say "Read on for more choice quotations from the quotable professor."
/unpedant
Quote is also a noun. I'm sure you meant to say, "Read on for more choice quotes from the professor."
/gollum
Quoteses is also a plural noun. We're sure hobbitses meant to say, "Rrread... ON! for more choice quoteses... fromtheprofessor. My precious."
My production would definitely be down if I had a cheerleader.
They have a pill for that now.
Rosie O'Donnell will be cheering for you if you don't get back to work.
Signed,
Your Boss
Someone can learn the basics of a lot of programming languages, but not know the fundamentals well. What a university should provide is a solid foundation.
Quite the opposite. You can learn a solid foundation in highschool or on your own -- or even in a 101 course. Universities already teach foundations -- in fact, that's all they teach, and that's why CS programs are complete and utter failures. You should be expected to study the very low-level basics of electrical engineering. You should be expected to study how to write OS's and rendering programs. You should be able to put graduates in a room with a spec sheet and a computer, expect them to tell you what information is missing or volatile on the spec sheet, tell you how long it will take them, and what language they would be most comfortable using to write the program, and they should be able to write it on the provided computer without downloading any additional programs.
Current CS grads do nothing but complain (none of this code looks like it was written by the book!), stumble into pitfalls of hubris (Sure I can have that ready by noon tomorrow!), download as much slugware onto their workstations as possible (it's an additional backup software that we used in my database relationships course!) and give up if they hit a wall (teacher... I mean, manager, you ask the impossible! the textbook answer wasn't the right answer!) -- all problems that a highschool dropout can walk around with a blindfold on if he's actually been working for 2 years instead of going to school for 4. You tell me we're getting a kid fresh out of school and I kiss goodbye to the next month of productivity.
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
Oh yeah?! Well, I don't believe in you, either!
We're geeks... We're the sorcerers of the modern-day world. --