Ultracapacitor LED Flashlight Charges In 90 Seconds

Iddo Genuth writes "The California based company 5.11 Tactical has recently introduced a new innovative flashlight — 'Light For Life' UC3.400. Unlike regular flashlights requiring constant battery changing this new LED torch offers a rechargeable battery that can be recharged in as little as 90 seconds using ultracapacitor technology. Various military and rescue units might benefit from this new development, ensuring them a light source at all times."

Comments

90 seconds!

[hansamurai]

ensuring them a light source at all times.

Except those 90 seconds.

In which you will be eaten by a grue.

Re:90 seconds!

[click2005]

Yeah and it'll be like every PC FPS with a flash light (HL2/F.E.A.R etc) where it lasts 30 seconds at a time.

Re:90 seconds!

[Elder Entropist]

Except those 90 seconds.

In which you will be eaten by a grue.

You should still be fine if you don't move more than once during those 90 seconds. You have to move twice in the dark to get eaten by a grue.

Re:90 seconds!

[hedwards]

That's actually a myth, the flashlight in Doom 3 is actually grue powered.

Re:90 seconds!

[SleptThroughClass]

That's actually a myth, the flashlight in Doom 3 is actually grue powered.

Do they have a small grue on a treadmill, forever running away from the light which it generates?

Re:90 seconds!

[orasio]

You know slashdot is not what it used to be, when the explanation for the joke is Score:5, Insightful, and the actual joke is Score:2

Hmm...

[brian0918]

Slashvertisement, anyone?

Re:Hmm...

[Anonymous Monkey]

None for me, thanks. I'm driving.

Re:Hmm...

[Java Pimp]

I was gonna mod this as Funny cause I almost spit out my Pepsi when I read this. Then I saw someone modded it Informative...

Then I did spit out my Pepsi.

Better be a mighty fine flashlight for $170

[jfengel]

TFA says it's a $170 flashlight. It's got a lifetime warranty, but I always lose flashlights before they fail on me.

What I want to know is, how quickly does it self-discharge? It doesn't do me any good to have it charge in 90 seconds if I don't need it until the power goes out.

Re:Better be a mighty fine flashlight for $170

[Feanturi]

I paid $10 for a wind-up flashlight that appears to have the same style of 3-LED array as this one. It's nice and bright, requires about 1 minute of winding to provide 15 minutes of full illumination, with less-bright light available after that. Considering that I never need anything other than a working pair of hands to charge it, I think the one I've got is much better for ensuring there will always be light when I need it. In a power outage, or out in a tent somewhere, a 90-second DC charge time doesn't do me any good at all.

Re:Better be a mighty fine flashlight for $170

[pz]

TFA says it's a $170 flashlight. It's got a lifetime warranty, but I always lose flashlights before they fail on me.

What I want to know is, how quickly does it self-discharge? It doesn't do me any good to have it charge in 90 seconds if I don't need it until the power goes out.

There's a really simple answer to this: use high-quality non-rechargeable batteries in your it-must-work-when-the-power-goes-out flashlight and change them once every few years. You can get Lithim chemistry AA batteries that have a claimed shelf life of over 10 years.

Then, use a separate flashlight with rechargeable batteries for when you just need it for a few minutes and can wait for a recharge, or can tolerate slightly-flat batteries.

The ultracapacitor flashlights are a very costly solution to a problem that, for most situations, is easily remedied with traditional flashlights and properly selected batteries that cost 1/20th as much. Hell, you can get a new 4-pack of lithium AAs every year for two decades and come out ahead cost-wise.

The ultracapacitors are for a different application, methinks. Like for the military, as suggested, where cost isn't an issue, power sources are readily available, and performance drives everything.

Re:Better be a mighty fine flashlight for $170

[nizo]

This thing could be really awesome if you were holding it when you walked outside in the rain.

Re:Better be a mighty fine flashlight for $170

[computersareevil]

Ultracapacitors have very low self-discharge rates. Lower than most battery technologies.

Re:Better be a mighty fine flashlight for $170

[peragrin]

Well both of my flashlights only require a regular shaking. The motion is something most slashdotters are good at anyways.
Led, a couple of capacitors, and a easy charge method works well

Re:Better be a mighty fine flashlight for $170

[Hijacked Public]

A bunch, but the cost is a secondary consideration in a lot of circumstances. Surefire has long been selling handheld lights at even higher prices. Even their small personal incandescents were in the $100 after they started enforcing their dealer MAP agreements.

There are plenty of field applications where a person can't carry $170 worth of Wal-Mart flashlights, but needs something that stay lit for a while, recharge quickly, and is durable.

Re:Better be a mighty fine flashlight for $170

[Gary]

I do some work as a volunteer officer and the flashlights you get for $10 just don't compare. Most police-style flashlights are built much more ruggedly and are significantly brighter. When you find yourself facing a hostile assailant with nothing but a flashlight in your hand it's nice to know that the flashlight can function as an object for self defense if necessary, not to mention break-and-rake on car and house windows. Also the extra brightness is a safety feature too. Obviously searching a dark area with a brighter light is safer, assuming you need to use a light at all, not to mention being able to temporarily blind someone whose eyes are dark-adjusted.

Then of course the price is related to the market size. Not many people need a flashlight with these extra capabilities so less market = higher price.

Re:Better be a mighty fine flashlight for $170

[kv9]

... a regular shaking. The motion is something most slashdotters are good at anyways.

yes, from constantly making martinis to all the hot mamas, right? shaken, not stirred ladies!

Re:Better be a mighty fine flashlight for $170

[onkelonkel]

One of my favorite old detective stories described a cop's 6 cell mag lite like this "except for the fact that it lit up when you pressed a button, it would not have been out of place at the battle of Agincourt"

Limited usefull information.

[B5_geek]

VapourWare: Lights will be delivered on a first come, first serve basis in early 2009.
90-minute runtime
270 Lumens

The claim is 270L for 1.5h, using three emitters. It looks from that close-up of the head that Crees are used, so most likely XR-Es. I'll use a rough 100L/W for my estimates.

270L/3 = 90L per emitter

90L corresponds to about 350mA at 3.2V (very roughly) from an XR-E.

If*Vf*emitters*time = energy

0.35A*3.2V*3*1.5h = 5.04Wh

So, the supercap has about 5Wh in it (again, very roughly).

The above assumes 270L at the emitter. Let's say it's 270L OTF, which would mean around 360L at the emitters.

360/3 = 120L per emitter

120L corresponds to, say, 450mA at 3.3V or so.

0.45A*3.3V*3*1.5h = 6.7Wh

This more optimistic estimate (in terms of both energy storage and lumen claims) puts us at a little under 7Wh for the supercap used in the light.

Let's see what we get with a common AW 18650:

3.7V*2.2Ah=8.14Wh

So, this flashlight's power source has around 62% (pessimistically) or 82% (optimistically) of the energy of an 18650, but is several times the size.

I think I'll pass on this one.

Re:Limited usefull information.

[jdong]

Actually the reflector design makes me strongly suspect some 5mm's used. Even if they used premium quality 5mm emitters like the Nichia GS series, I doubt it'd have the same light output level of a Cree setup. Bottom line is parent is correct -- It takes me 5 seconds to swap out an 18650 or RCR123. Charging an integrated ultracapacitor for 90 seconds loses by any comparison.

Re:Limited usefull information.

[captaindomon]

The AW 18650 is a lithium ion rechargeable battery. This is a capacitor system, they are a very different technology. Try to get an AW 18650 to recharge in 90 seconds. It will asplode.

Re:Limited usefull information.

[archermadness]

So, this flashlight's power source has around 62% (pessimistically) or 82% (optimistically) of the energy of an 18650, but is several times the size.

I think I'll pass on this one.

Sure, it only has (according to your numbers) at most 82% of the charge capacity as an 18650 Li-Ion battery--but it can recharge in 90 seconds, and do that up to 50,000 times. That's something no battery can do. Plus, they shouldn't self-discharge (as that's typically an issue with batteries, not capacitors).

Re:Limited usefull information.

[Hijacked Public]

Lumen ratings have become a marketing game and nearly everyone is quoting theoretical numbers rather than measured ones.

Back in the incandescent days there wasn't as much advatage because most high end flashlight customers knew the ratings applied only to the first few seconds of operation. That and there wasn't enough competition among manufacturers to mean much. With constant voltage LED drivers lumens matter more, and now that there are several players in the emitter game, and making lights, things are getting out of hand.

No way on earth 5.11 is measuring 270 lumens out of this light with an integratign sphere.

Re:Limited usefull information.

[Anonymous Coward]

But you have to look at the big picture.

Lets say during an average 3-hour shopping experience, you may look at 15 items, and impulsively buy 2 items. Each impulsive buy brings you 10 mG* of fun.

2 * 10mG = 20mG / 3 hrs = 6.66 mG / hour of fun (roughly)

Guessing from your slashdot ID, you're fairly young, probably just past being teenage (again, very roughly.) Based on your age, looking at items that you might buy, but not actually buying them should give you about 5 mG of fun per hour.

6.66 mG + 5 mG = 11.66 mG per hour of fun.

B5 Geek shopping with you would admittedly remove much chance of you impulsively buying any items, but there's still the remote possibility of you buying one (say, for example, while he goes to the bathroom, or gets distracted counting ceiling tiles)

We'll say that there's roughly a 20% chance of impulsively buying an item with him around.

6.66 mG * 20% = 1.33mG of fun per hour from buying items

But the joy gained by admiring the disgusted looks from the many females you'd be passing in the mall, and the sighs of boredom from the retail clerks while B5 explains to them the features of the products they're selling combined would provide at LEAST 10 mG of fun per hour.

10mG + 1.33 mG = 11.33 mG per hour of fun.

So you see, while shopping with B5 Geek, you would really only be losing roughly 0.33 mG of fun per hour.

Combined with the fact that you could probably convince him to buy you lunch (He's probably lonely enough to pay just for your company) shopping with him might not be so bad after all.

*mG = milliGrin

Re:Limited usefull information.

[jdong]

Oh without a doubt in my mind, from my experience with being a flashlightaholic (my collection of lights totals about $2000-ish), 5.11 is playing a few common low-grade marketing games here:
(1) Advertising emitter lumens instead of out-the-front lumens. The number almost certainly doesn't account for losses in the reflector.
(2) Advertising emitter lumens at peak driveable Vf and current. Almost every vendor except the Inova T-series and INFORCE (military) series does this -- they put a lumens number on the box that is taken from the spec sheet. Then, they do not actually drive the emitter at the power required to produce this amount, usually because it generates too much eat or returns too low of a runtime.
(3) Advertising useless runtime. My NiteCore D10 is a 1xAA Cree Q5 based emitter. On a 2000mAh NIMH cell, it produces a little over 2 hours of full DC-DC regulated brightness. Then, the output tapers off and goes into a "moon" brightness for 24 hours so you can find your next set of batteries. So, does this have 120 minutes of runtime or 24 hours of runtime? I'd say realistically the former -- Nitecore advertises the former (runtime to 50% brightness) -- but I've seen far too many products in this industry advertise the latter.

Bottom line is Inova's new INFORCE series military lights produce 150 or so out-the-front lumens and the light costs close to $200 MSRP. I don't see this product performing even in that ballpark. Press release = marketing speak; call me back when a reputable source produces a runtime graph and output graph.

Re:Limited usefull information.

[sslo]

Actually, your calculations are even further off than I thought. Rather than multiplying the 60 minute runtime (on low) by the 270 lumen brightness (on high) from the 5.11 data sheet, you have somehow posited 270 lumens for 1.5 hours - which seems to have come straight out of thin air.

This means that your calculations are off by a factor of six.

Patents

[tepples]

These two technologies are not mutually exclusive.

Except perhaps if their respective patent holders refuse to cross-license to each other.

What I did about my Surefire...

[Anonymous Coward]

Consider yourself a fool for spending money like that.

Inexpensive solution

I bought a set of these for my SureFire and would never go back. They have about the same capacity and have lasted me a few dozen recharges with no apparent capacity problems.

The funny thing, of course, is that police departments have public funding and wouldn't think twice about ordering thousands of CR123 cells.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:May I be the first to say...

[SleptThroughClass]

Brilliant! -- GENERATION 667: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.