HP Pushes Open Source For Small Businesses

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HP Pushes Open Source For Small Businesses

Posted by Soulskill on Friday December 12, 2008 @07:28PM from the financial-motivation dept.

ruphus13 writes "HP finally begins to actively push open source in its products. From the post, 'HP has been quirky over the years when it comes to open source. It has been, traditionally, a company that supports open source — especially in larger enterprises... Wednesday, it announced two new open source products, geared to small businesses and educational institutions. HP plans on including its 'Mozilla Firefox for HP Virtual Solution' on more of its business class desktop PCs (to a total of seven models between the HP Compaq dc/dx lines in the US, eight models worldwide). Come December 15th, HP will also offer Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop on its HP Compaq dc5850 model. The base SLED-equipped model will cost $519, and features the usual open source suspects for the small business setting — OpenOffice, and mail clients such as Evolution.'"

118 comments

What, again? by Erikderzweite · 2008-12-12 19:31 · Score: 4, Interesting

How many times did they claim Linux support and backed out of it later?
1. Re:What, again? by Anthony_Cargile · 2008-12-12 19:58 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Too many times, I'm afraid. They were also supposedly going to offer desktops with Linux around the same time Dell was, and I heard they did but never saw any advertised (or even hidden on their website, for that matter).
  
  You're right, they need to make up their mind or actually stick with what they announce they're going to do.
2. Re:What, again? by sleeponthemic · 2008-12-12 23:32 · Score: 1
  
  Look into my eyes......
  
  --
  I record my sleeptalking
3. Re:What, again? by theaveng · 2008-12-13 00:51 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I took a quick look at what HP is offering.
  The $500 PC discussed in the summary only has 512 megabytes of RAM. That won't work with Vista which runs like a snail through molasses, but is it enough to run "SUSE" Linux? Or will that be running slow too?
  
  --
  FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
4. Re:What, again? by leuchuk · 2008-12-13 02:27 · Score: 1
  
  At least their commitment about printer drivers in Linux works. See the other printer producers and their ideas about markets like Canons "there is no demand for Linux drivers or Canons help" approach (I heard that from a Canon rep). The other thing is that marketing is in every bigger IT business's main job is to produce bubbles and hype - whether they'll be ever able to produce and the deliver the promise, who cares there?
5. Re:What, again? by GuidoW · 2008-12-13 04:04 · Score: 1
  
  The $500 PC discussed in the summary only has 512 megabytes of RAM.
  What?! 500 USD for a PC with just 512 MB of RAM? Is this a joke?
  
  --
  If it's so secret, then how come I've never heard of it?
6. Re:What, again? by theaveng · 2008-12-13 04:30 · Score: 1
  
  Did I get it wrong? It looks like the base model only has 512 meg RAM. Read more here: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/12454-12454-64287-321860-3328896-3658106.html
  
  --
  FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
7. Re:What, again? by mewshi_nya · 2008-12-13 06:23 · Score: 1
  
  Brother makes VERY good linux drivers as well.
8. Re:What, again? by mysticgoat · 2008-12-13 06:38 · Score: 1
  512 MB ram is probably enough for SUSE in an office setting.
  As my second computer, I'm running Ubuntu on an older and slower Compaq that has only 384 MB ram. I use this for general office work (OOo, Firefox, Thunderbird, etc) when I've got my primary computer tied up with a 10 hour photorealistic ray trace rendering. I don't notice any performance difference with office type tasks between these:
  
  Dell 1.6 GHz Pentium 4, 256 KB cache, 1 GB ram, 3200 bogomips (Ubuntu 8.10 stock install)
  
  Compaq 1.0 GHz Athlon, 256 KB cache, 384 MB ram, 2000 bogomips (Ubuntu 8.10 stock install)
  
  Above are reported by cat /proc/cpuinfo rounded to 2 sigfigs
  I've never tried to use the Compaq for a tough job like rendering. I expect it would not be a pleasant experience. But its good with word processing, spreadsheets, working up presentations, and so forth.
9. Re:What, again? by haruchai · 2008-12-13 07:08 · Score: 1
  
  I hope that they are better than their Windows one.
  Those damn Brother MFC drivers are a pain and their USB serial emulation used to prevent Windows from going into Standby
  
  --
  Pain is merely failure leaving the body
10. Re:What, again? by mysidia · 2008-12-13 13:29 · Score: 1
  
  512 MB ram is probably enough for SUSE in an office setting.
  This is good enough for running server software.
  But if you're running X, KDE, and OpenOffice, it is clearly best for you to have 1GB of RAM.
  Because KDE/Gnome take a lot of memory, and OpenOffice is also a huge memory hog.
  So if you are running both, very little is left in the way of RAM for filesystem page cache, and you may actually start paging, which is ok on a server, but on a desktop, this results in a degraded experience.
11. Re:What, again? by mikechant · 2008-12-14 00:08 · Score: 1
  
  Well...
  I used to run Fedora 6/Gnome/Openoffice with 256Mb RAM, it was usable but a bit slow - surely something like that should be fine on 512Mb?
12. Re:What, again? by mysidia · 2008-12-14 10:00 · Score: 1
  
  Hrm.. why do you think 256Mb of more RAM is a magic number for good performance, if 256mb was slow for you?
  Even the most casual user will want to do some web surfing in addition to running OpenOffice.
  That most likely means Firefox 3, which has some substantial memory requirements of its own.
  And E-mail (Thunderbird, KMail, or Evolution). Multi-tasking between 3 applications is almost a foregone conclusion.
  3-way multitasking is something almost everyone does now (it's not a power user thing)
  At least in some cases, OOo is becoming more bloated as time goes on, 512mb is not nearly future proof, esp when java is involved.
  There are Linux solutions who have a base that is light on the RAM, but the common Linux desktop setup (with a 2.6 kernel, Gnome or KDE, OOo, FF2 or 3) with the stock Linux packages and background services installed is every bit as RAM hungry as a bare bones XP install.
13. Re:What, again? by Yfrwlf · 2008-12-14 11:14 · Score: 1
  
  No offense intended, but you're obviously very new to Linux. Depending on the software you want to run, Linux can run on anywhere from 8 MBs of RAM with no GUI, to as little as maybe, what, 64 MBs with a GUI? I dunno, I haven't tried seeing how much X plus one of the lighter GUIs require, but I'm sure it's not much. Gnome needs 256-512 to run well I think.
  
  --
  Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
A small step by mysidia · 2008-12-12 19:44 · Score: 0

But if HP truly wishes to embrace Open Source, they should start open sourcing some of their software.
The OpenView packages, for example.
1. Re:A small step by Antique+Geekmeister · 2008-12-12 23:51 · Score: 1
  
  Why would you want it?
  The time spent rewriting and managing the queries for it would be far better spent with an open source, universally applicable set of tools such as Nagios, MRTG, CFengine, etc. I've had difficulty explaining to managers impressed by OpenView demos that the work of configuring it for a site is similar to that of integrating open source tools for the HP machines, and the open source tools are more flexible to make a better map of the network and its services.
Saline pushes for larger by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 19:45 · Score: -1, Redundant

I buy my saline kits from Chase Union Ltd in Movi, Michigan. The cost of a 1000 cc bag of sterile saline, drip tubing, sterile wipes (to wipe down your sac and all around) and catheter needle is with shipping around $25.
You can call them at +01 (248) 348-8191 and ask for item "MF 100" a scrotal inflation kit.
To do the saline, take the bag of saline and put in a microwave for about 5.5 minutes at low heat to warm to a bit above body temperature;about 100 degrees or so. Unwrap the outer plastic packaging and put the saline bag aside. Unwrap the drip tubing which comes with the kit and move the clamping system down toward the end opposite the vial type thing and CLOSE IT SHUT. Take the larger end of the drip tubing and uncap the protective cap........open the warmed bag of saline and remove the clear cap. Insert the drip tubing nozzle into the saline bag opening. Find a curtain rod, pot rack (which i have and use in the kitchen) shower rod or something elevated above you. Hang the bag of saline with the tubing attached and shut off. THEN VERY IMPORTANT. SQUEEZE SOME OF THE SALINE INTO THE VIAL ABOUT HALF WAY -THEN OPEN THE CLAMPING DEVICE AND BLEED ALL AIR OUT OF THE TUBING. YEAH YOU LOOSE A LITTLE BIT OF SALINE BUT THIS IS A MUST. YOU DON'T WANT ANY AIR OR AIR BUBBLES IN THE DRIP TUBING! REPLACE THE CAP ON THE WORKING END OF THE TUBING.
Before hand, while the bag of saline is warming either take a hot shower, or fill a basin or kitchen sink with very warm water sit in it for 4-7 minutes. The idea is to warm your ballsac skin up and let it get loose and hang.
When you have finished warming your sac, and you have the bag of saline (BLED FROM AIR), you are ready to grow.
With your sac still very warm use the wipes provided with the kit to wipe down your cock and ballsac. By the way, you will want an adjustable leather cock ring , nylon rope, or other type of removable cock/ball ring to wrap around cock and ballsac after inserting the catheter needle.
With you sac still warm and wiped down with antiseptics, sit in a chair with a towel underneath. Open the catheter needle don't get pansy here but with one hand, take the catheter needle and the teflon sheath that covers it and WITH THE OTHER HAND TAKE YOUR BALLSAC MOVING YOUR COCK OUT OF THE WAY AND DECIDE ON THE LOCATION OF THE INTENDED CATHETER NEEDLE. YOU NEED TO FOCUS ON THE AREA EITHER TO THE LEFT OR RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR BALLSAC AND UP CLOSE TO WHERE THE COCK CONNECTS. YOU PLACE THE CATHETER NEEDLE RIGHT BELOW THE COCK OR A LITTLE LOWER BUT TO ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER OF THE DARKER SKIN DIVIDING SKIN WHICH IS IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR SAC.
DON'T GET SQUEEMISH BECAUSE THIS DOES NOT HURT. BUT INSERT THE CATHETER STRAIGHT DOWN CAUTIOUSLY INTO YOUR SAC. MOVE YOUR TESTICLE ASIDE YOU ARE GOING TO GO INTO THE BALLSAC CAVITY NOT THE TESTICLE.
YOU WILL EXPERIENCE A PRICK SENSATION,THEN A POP SENSATION AS THE CATHETER NEEDLE PIERCES THE MUSCLE TISSUE OF THE SCROTUM.
KEEP PUSHING THE CATHETER NEEDLE IN. IF IT GOES IN AND YOU FEEL FROM THE OTHER/OPPOSITE SIDE OF YOUR BALLSAC THAT THE NEEDLE IS THERE, THEN STOP.
Pull out the needle itself leaving the teflon sheath inserted into you sac. Tie yourself (cock and balls) off with some sort of removable cock ring or rope or robe tie or whatever.
Sit down, don' t plan to move around too much for the next 30 minutes - hour. Have your beers/soft drinks or whatever already out of the fridge. You will want to stay idle and focused while you do this.
While sitting, and close to the hanging bag of saline and the drip tubing, remove the protective cover of the end of the drip tubing, connect the drip tubing to the catheter sheath in you sac. THEN START ADJUSTING THE CLAMPING DEVICE OPEN TO ALLOW SALINE DRIPPING TO APPEAR IN THE VIAL UP BY THE BAG OF SALINE. ADJUST FOR AN EVEN DRIP DRIP DRIP FLOW AND NOT A STEADY STREAM OF SALINE.
If the saline doesn't drip at first, try pulling the catheter sheath out a bit until you at first experience a small burning sensation;it g
1. Re:Saline pushes for larger by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 20:07 · Score: -1, Redundant
  
  Redundant? How the shit did this get modded REDUNDANT ffs? Was saline ballsac injection mentioned ITFA or some shit?
2. Re:Saline pushes for larger by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 20:20 · Score: 0
  
  I for one welcome our saline ballsac injecting overlords!
3. Re:Saline pushes for larger by haruchai · 2008-12-13 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  Hey, AC, i think you've injected too much saline into your "brains" if you're complaining about the moderation of the grandparent post.
  
  --
  Pain is merely failure leaving the body
The fear is gone by BearRanger · 2008-12-12 19:48 · Score: 4, Insightful

At long last vendors have gotten over their fear of Microsoft. There was a time HP and Dell would never consider preloading an alternative operating system. Now they're both doing it, and it's good for the customer, good for Linux and -- surprise -- good for HP and Dell.
The complete marketing failure that is Windows Vista made this possible. (Note that I didn't say the failure of Vista. Microsoft is on the road to salvaging the OS itself, but customer perception of its quality is a lost cause.)
1. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 20:01 · Score: -1, Troll
  
  maybe in your puny /. mind it's a failure, but last time i checked every new pc comes with vista.
2. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 20:05 · Score: 0
  
  maybe in your puny /. mind it's a failure, but last time i checked every new pc comes with vista.
  All of mine (and 100 other people I know) have come with OS X so far.
3. Re:The fear is gone by Divebus · 2008-12-12 20:12 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  At long last vendors have gotten over their fear of Microsoft.
  Just what I was thinking. They're still a 300 pound gorilla but can no longer bully several 150 pound gorillas.
  
  --
  
  Most of the stuff on /. won't survive first contact with facts.
4. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 20:47 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  a) Why do you count how many Mac users you know, unless you are out to prove something
  b) He said "every new pc". I know Macs run on Intel now and the Insanely Mac project allows non-Apple hardware to run OS X, but call a Mac a Mac and a Dell/HP/Asus/* a PC, e.g. a computer that has yet to be blessed with the holy Apple logo.
  
  <rant>
  And since I am going to be modded down for badmouthing crApple anyways (hello, slashdot!):
  
  Apple needs to stop dictating their App store so much and pissing off developers before everyone switches to Android and keeps jailbreaking the iPhone. If I wanted to pay for Unix on high-end hardware, I would (instead of getting a Macintrash) go to NewEgg and SCO. And If I have to watch Steve Jobs get up at another keynote and act like the second coming of Christ one more time for a mediocre line of new products, I think I'm going to put all my money in Microsoft stock! Oh, and stop trying to patent the 3D desktop: Compiz-Fusion has been doing that for years! If they get their patent approved I'm applying to patent the steering wheel (car analogy)!
  </rant>
  
  There, all of my Apple complaints are off my chest. Man, I feel better now!!
5. Re:The fear is gone by Jamie's+Nightmare · 2008-12-12 20:51 · Score: -1, Flamebait
  
  There was nothing to fear, because the demand for Linux as a desktop OS is nearly invisible. The world isn't based on the cultural vacuum inside Slashdot.
  Like it or not, Linux distributions are the "Ron Paul" of operating systems. Lots of fanfare and excitement with a small group of people, some of whom congregate on websites, forums and chat rooms. Meanwhile, in the real world, nobody cares. Those who do take enough interest to take a close look, laugh and say "You gotta be kidding", and walk away.
  
  --
  "When you see a unixer brainwashed beyond saving, kick him out of the door." - Xah Lee
6. Re:The fear is gone by kanweg · 2008-12-12 20:53 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  I think it would be better if the {the other) machines they sold ran both Windows and Linux (such that customers could run both concurrently). It would be great if a PC manufacturer could say: "Yes, you can run that Windows-ony business app of yours, but you also get (access to) a boat load of free useful software. It would sell. And buyers could throw off Linux if they insist.
  That not being the case is still a tail of MS's monopoly abuse still present, I'm afraid.
  Bert
7. Re:The fear is gone by Jamie's+Nightmare · 2008-12-12 20:56 · Score: 1
  
  ..and in this fantasy, Steve Jobs sneaks up behind you, wraps his arms snug across your chest, nuzzles your ear a little bit and whispers, "Thank you..... (lick) mmmmmm"
  
  --
  "When you see a unixer brainwashed beyond saving, kick him out of the door." - Xah Lee
8. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 20:58 · Score: -1, Flamebait
  
  Bravo! By far the best Apple rant I've read in along time, I'd kill for some mod points right now. Now the pro-Apple assholes should be here in 3...2...1...
9. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 21:04 · Score: 0
  
  I recently tried OpenSUSE 10.3 in company environment and must say that standard Evolution 2.12 installation is still awfully buggy and browsing of exchange public folders does not work at all!!!
  And there is no normal solution because in order to update Evolution to possibly working version you are forced to update to OpenSUSE 11.0!
10. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 21:19 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah! Thats the spirit! Fuck censorsh$%^* [NO CARRIER]
11. Re:The fear is gone by Divebus · 2008-12-12 21:23 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  There, all of my Apple complaints are off my chest. Man, I feel better now!!
  Ok, A/C, I'll bite:
  a) Frankly, I don't know many people buying new Windows PCs. They're mostly buying Macs and half are migrating from Windows PCs. The ones buying Windows PCs always give a sad excuse like "my wife needs it for her work".
  b) Apple was using the term "Personal Computer" for six or seven years before the IBM PC, which simply co-opted the term from others. Apple probably has more rights to "PC" than anyone.
  c) It sounds like you should be worrying more about how obsolete your knowledge base will be in the next decade than ranting against whatever is displacing it. Step into the light. More individuals and companies are realizing that it's irresponsible to put a Windows machine where something else will do the same job. Everything is a threat only if you stay in a box and galvanize yourself against technological change.
  
  --
  
  Most of the stuff on /. won't survive first contact with facts.
12. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 21:57 · Score: 0
  
  a) Yeah, nevermind the windows workstations used in enterprise environments, a place where Macs current have little to no place as opposed to both Windows and Linux
  
  b) So if Apple has the "rights" to it so much (cue shark lawyers), how come they all use it as a derogatory term for a non-Apple-blessed computer? Anyone who even glances at a TV once in a while can tell you that
  
  c) Exactly, and Linux has been very strong in the workplace and datacenter for a while now, and it looks as if it will continue to (steadily) grow in the desktop market as well for those migrating from vista despite Windows being the preferred workstation OS. Macs are for either graphics designers, people who don't know any better (yet have deep pockets) or college kids who, in addition to making a fashion statement, aim to be "different" although most computer science majors switch to Linux fairly quick after discovering it.
  
  At least, the ones whom know what the hell they're doing.
13. Re:The fear is gone by sucker_muts · 2008-12-12 22:05 · Score: 0
  
  Let's hope that a lot of businesses try this out right now, and get a little bit familiar with linux and the open source community. I hope the economic crisis will help with this aspect.
  
  Otherwise a lot of them will wait till Windows 7 is there, and simple use that since it will be so much better than vista. And they'll know how to use 7 better, all their previous investments can be reused.
  
  The amount of stories about businesses, individuals and education institutions trying out open source seems to be growing, at least It seems so. Go linux! :)
  
  --
  Dependency hell? => /bin/there/done/that
14. Re:The fear is gone by pallmall1 · 2008-12-12 22:12 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  They're still a 300 pound gorilla but can no longer bully several 150 pound gorillas.
  HP is shipping Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop linux.
  
  Novell is Microsoft's trained 150 pound gorilla.
  
  --
  3 things about computers: they're alive, they're self-aware, and they hate your guts.
15. Re:The fear is gone by Antique+Geekmeister · 2008-12-12 23:57 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  You have more confidence in Windows 7 than I do. Do you have some reason for such confidendce? Vista was similarly advertised as a wonderful upgrade, but its promised features (such as WinFS) somehow managed to fail, miserably, when actually tried and many of them were pulled from the final product. The new user interface is pretty silly, its intrusive DRM and security features are painful for users and encourage similar stupidities of always hitting 'yes', and the policy games played with releasing 'Vista-only' drivers and products are awful.
  There seems no reason to think that the policies that led to Vista have changed, even if its preliminary tests are promising. Preliminary tests of Vista were also misleading in their performance tests.
16. Re:The fear is gone by rolfwind · 2008-12-13 00:42 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Wow, they lost a lot of weight. I remember when Microsoft used to be an 800 or 900 pound gorilla.
  Should make their doctors happy.
17. Re:The fear is gone by lukas84 · 2008-12-13 00:42 · Score: 1
  
  Vista has "intrusive DRM"? I never noticed, and i've been using Vista since Beta 2 on my laptop.
  UAC, by the way, is not painful for users - if you just "use" your computer, you'll not see a single UAC prompt - when you start to do administrative tasks, things will be different.
  Technically, Vista was ok. If it would've been released 2 years earlier, it would've been great. Windows 7 is the polishment to Vista that XP was to 2000. History repeats itself.
  Vista fixed many, many issues that XP had, like the antique installer being replaced by a new image based installation systems that works better and faster. Of course, the casual user could care less about this.
  Vista also made many design errors in applications more obvious, which was one of it's downfalls from a customer perspective, but from a long term POV, it was the right thing to do.
18. Re:The fear is gone by theaveng · 2008-12-13 00:53 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Uh... then you'll have to add $200 to the cost of the PC. Better to leave the Windows off and push Linux as a "lower cost alternative".
  
  --
  FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
19. Re:The fear is gone by theaveng · 2008-12-13 00:58 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  That's because Vista's DRM isn't turned on yet. Microsoft says they'll turn it on starting year 2010 (via an update of course), and then good luck trying to play all your burned CDs and DVDs that lack DRM.
  Also:
  I wouldn't be so sure that businesses will immediately jump to Windows 7. Being a contractor I get to see a lot of different companies installations, and Not One has upgraded to Vista. They still prefer XP even though it's almost three years since a new OS arrived.
  
  --
  FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
20. Re:The fear is gone by theaveng · 2008-12-13 01:02 · Score: 1
  
  Damnit. Did I leave my webcam turned again? How did you know?
  
  --
  FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
21. Re:The fear is gone by lukas84 · 2008-12-13 01:14 · Score: 2
  
  That's because Vista's DRM isn't turned on yet. Microsoft says they'll turn it on starting year 2010 (via an update of course), and then good luck trying to play all your burned CDs and DVDs that lack DRM.
  Yes, every vendor of any OS can release an update that changes the behaviour of it. That's kinda the reason for updates. Alas, this hasn't happened yet and it won't - there is no base for all the "evil conspiracy" hype around Vista.
  
  I wouldn't be so sure that businesses will immediately jump to Windows 7. Being a contractor I get to see a lot of different companies installations, and Not One has upgraded to Vista. They still prefer XP even though it's almost three years since a new OS arrived.
  Of course they won't! Heck, i still see businesses running Windows 2000 on Desktops and Servers, even new ones! (which is insane, IMO)
  I work for an IT service company that services small businesses, and most (~80%) of the machines we deploy are running Windows Vista. We've been selling and installing Windows Server 2008 since the release date, and last week i just finished installing the first SBS 2008.
  Yep, smaller companies are more progressive than very large companies, simply because they have fewer apps to support and are more flexible.
22. Re:The fear is gone by BrentH · 2008-12-13 01:36 · Score: 1
  
  On my dads PC, somehow launching Firefox causes the UAC dialog. He doesnt know jack shit about all this rights business (well, he does now), but has certainly not performed actions that he shouldnt have done. However this came to be, is a fault of the software, not him. Nevermind that UAC offers not security at all, writing software to circumvent it is easy as pie. UAC just doesn't work, certainly not when I compare it to sudo on Linux.
23. Re:The fear is gone by lukas84 · 2008-12-13 01:49 · Score: 1
  
  On my dads PC, somehow launching Firefox causes the UAC dialog.
  So, Firefox is broken and you blame Vista? Interesting way of putting it.
  Recent versions of Firefox have proper manifests and only show an UAC prompt when installing an update (which makes sense).
  
  Nevermind that UAC offers not security at all, writing software to circumvent it is easy as pie. UAC just doesn't work, certainly not when I compare it to sudo on Linux.
  Can you elaborate on that?
24. Re:The fear is gone by Erikderzweite · 2008-12-13 01:56 · Score: 1
  
  Technically, Vista was ok. If it would've been released 2 years earlier, it would've been great. Windows 7 is the polishment to Vista that XP was to 2000. History repeats itself.
  Win7 is yet another attempt to sell Vista. First MS wanted to sell Vista. When they saw that fewer buy it than expected, they made a Service Pack but didn't get enough sales again because businesses wanted to skip Vista altogether. Solution -- take the same system based on the same kernel, slightly improve it, make a new wallpaper, bribe reviewers with expencive laptops to get positive reviews and call it Windows 7, maybe it'll sell now.
25. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 02:24 · Score: 0
  
  Apple is so far behind windows that we will not see them catch up in our life time. Apple is just as unstable as windows with less. I'm a mac user and frankly I'm migrating back to windows, so I can get stuff done.
26. Re:The fear is gone by Hognoxious · 2008-12-13 02:32 · Score: 1
  
  I bought one a month ago with XP. Verily, thou failest it.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
27. Re:The fear is gone by Antique+Geekmeister · 2008-12-13 03:08 · Score: 1
  
  Well, they haven't completely implemented Palladium, renamed 'Trusted Computing'. But if you work with CygWin and other open source tools, the poor interactions with their anti-viral and software management materials can get pretty painful. Getting OpenSSH, VNC, and Apache going under Vista were not fun for me.
  This is particularly played out in the Windows Media Player: as near s I can tell, they implemented a lot of additional DRM in the Vista version, and have been backporting it to XP to keep people from using free and DRM-free players like VLC. Yes, I'm wearing a bit of a tinfoil hat about this, but they really need to keep people locked to the DRM managed MediaPlayer to force broadcasters and media suppliers from using or supporting other operating systems.
28. Re:The fear is gone by lukas84 · 2008-12-13 03:29 · Score: 1
  
  Well, they haven't completely implemented Palladium, renamed 'Trusted Computing'.
  That's technology. Signature enforcement on binaries can make perfect sense in high security environments.
  Of course, technology being technology it can also be used for "bad" purposes. Like a knife can be used to cut meat or kill people.
  
  Getting OpenSSH, VNC, and Apache going under Vista were not fun for me.
  Okay, i can get that. With a new OS that changes a few fundamentals of the platform, there are bound to be some hiccups. The problem with Vista was that noone, not even commercial vendors, prepared their software using the beta releases.
  I don't really see why you blame Vista for breaking e.G. VNC - i would blame the VNC vendors for not keeping up with the platform they're developing for.
  
  XP to keep people from using free and DRM-free players like VLC
  What? I've been using mplayer to watch my movies on Vista since forever - the only problem i have with it is that it still disables Aero. It's doesn't annoy me enough to learn enough C and DirectX to fix it, though :)
29. Re:The fear is gone by Antique+Geekmeister · 2008-12-13 03:37 · Score: 1
  
  Palladium is a _lot_ more than signature enforcement. Read up on it, it's potentially extremely nasty. It's designed to operate at so deep a level that the BIOS, boot loader, and media burners can be locked to signed-only operating systems and run only signed binaries to access attached storage media. Imagine who'd benefit the most from that, especially because the signatures are expensive? And who's going to hold the secret keys for all those signatures? The same company that's already been convicted several times of anti-trust and monopoly practices.
30. Re:The fear is gone by BrentH · 2008-12-13 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  It was a recent Firefox, version 3. Just happened overnight. Yes, that means Vista is broken, because the same installer works fine on other computers. Try googling 'circumvent uac' for starters. And if you don't see how sudo is superior, use it.
31. Re:The fear is gone by Dutch+Gun · 2008-12-13 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  That's because Vista's DRM isn't turned on yet. Microsoft says they'll turn it on starting year 2010 (via an update of course), and then good luck trying to play all your burned CDs and DVDs that lack DRM.
  Anyone can write an application that pumps a raw digital audio stream through the Vista audio subsystem. There are no requirements at the primary (WASAPI) or legacy APIs (MCI, DirectSound, WaveOut, etc) for digital encryption of the audio stream or even an application signature. This sort of DRM update you speak of, in addition to being completely technically infeasible, would utterly break every single audio-enabled application on the Windows platform today, such as browser plugins, professional audio development tools, educational programs, games, and music players alike.
  Whatever you think of Microsoft, they're not bat-shit insane.
  
  --
  Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
32. Re:The fear is gone by lukas84 · 2008-12-13 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  It's designed to operate at so deep a level that the BIOS, boot loader, and media burners can be locked to signed-only operating systems and run only signed binaries to access attached storage media.
  Yeah, this is already implemented and can be used together with bitlocker and a TPM for full disk encryption without any user interaction whatsoever. It's nice functionality, IMHO!
  If the BIOS is modified, then Bitlocker requires a temporary unlock key.
  
  Imagine who'd benefit the most from that, especially because the signatures are expensive? And who's going to hold the secret keys for all those signatures? The same company that's already been convicted several times of anti-trust and monopoly practices.
  Again, this is kinda my point: If that were to become MANDATORY (which it isn't!) then it would be the catastrophe you're talking about. Only it's not mandatory, it's just a feature that can be used e.G. for full disk encryption.
33. Re:The fear is gone by lukas84 · 2008-12-13 03:52 · Score: 1
  
  I've used sudo, and think it's customizability would do great for Windows. It's clearly better than UAC in terms of configurability.
  However, regarding security, my first Google hit was this:
  http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/04/28/vista-uac-faux-security-or-what/
  How does this issue not apply for sudo?
  Assume i do
  sudo evil_service
  (runs in the backgrounds, installs itself into the init system)
  and then do
  evil_program
  that uses some IPC mechanism to talk to evil_service, how is this different from UAC?
34. Re:The fear is gone by theaveng · 2008-12-13 04:40 · Score: 1
  
  Oh okay. Well maybe I misunderstood then. I though the "protected media pipelines" were put in Vista for the purpose of blocking unauthorized copies of music from playing through the OS. Assuming I'm wrong, why did Microsoft put them there?
  ALSO:
  I'm not blaming Microsoft. I'm blaming the MPAA and RIAA; they're the ones who decided, starting 2010, to make CDs/DVDs unplayable in PCs that lacked DRM security. Sure Vista will play anything now, but come 2010 that will no longer be true.
  
  --
  FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
35. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 04:55 · Score: 0
  
  I spend my work days fixing Windows specific problems and deploy Macs where it's critical that things work well. The Mac is what Linux wants to be.
36. Re:The fear is gone by PinkyGigglebrain · 2008-12-13 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  "Yep, smaller companies are more progressive than very large companies, ..."
  And they tend to have less money to spend on IT so they will just go with whatever comes with the computers they buy. The company I work for purchases only from Dell for the simple reason that we can still get XP, the boss has seen Vista and what it does to system resources. He hates Vista (he already complains about how slow his quad-core, 3GHz systems is with XP64) and has told me flat out that he will not use Vista in the company, I'm already under orders to research alternatives to the applications the company uses that will allow us to continue with XP and let us transition to Linux as needed.
  
  But actually your right about smaller companies being more progressive in one regard, they are more willing and able to ditch Windows and go with alternatives.
37. Re:The fear is gone by influenza · 2008-12-13 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  You're right, users can override any security mechanism if they have administrative access.
  One big difference for most Linux users though, is that probably all of the software they'll need to use their computer is available from a single, trusted source: their distribution's repositories. So instead of having to surf the web to download applications (and potentially get misled into downloading malware) they can get everything they need from one source where every package has been through at least some sort of a validation process.
  As a bonus, the Linux user also gets to update their entire operating system and all installed applications at once. That means they only have to sudo once, versus having to approve UAC prompts for every piece of software that auto-updates on their computer. Linux users don't have to sudo very often for day to day use, so IMHO they're less likely to get desensitized to sudo than to UAC.
38. Re:The fear is gone by lukas84 · 2008-12-13 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  But actually your right about smaller companies being more progressive in one regard, they are more willing and able to ditch Windows and go with alternatives.
  Which is exactly what i would recommend to anyone who dislikes Vista - if you don't like where Microsoft is going: Switch!
39. Re:The fear is gone by Antique+Geekmeister · 2008-12-13 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  That's only one of its hooks. It's designed, as well, to manage media such as DVD players and streaming applications to be able to unlock the data with the pre-signed, TPM enabled application. This is fine for media which the owner wishes to protect, but is nothing but pain for material which the *producer* wants to protect, and the user does not (such as videos and audios and games). This is like SecuROM, elected to be governor of California. And the keys are designed so that Microsoft will handle the core repository of the *secret* keys for recover and 'law enforcement' reasons.
  In other words, for protecting your documents from the feds even without a warrant (because there is no legal structure in place to protect your keys and no indication that a warrant would be needed), or from Microsoft at whim, they are worse than useless because they give a very false sense of security. As near as I can taell, from the presentation by Brian LaMacchia, it's designed not to let you have your own, private, not-available-to-Microsoft private keys.
40. Re:The fear is gone by lukas84 · 2008-12-13 06:30 · Score: 1
  
  One big difference for most Linux users though, is that probably all of the software they'll need to use their computer is available from a single, trusted source: their distribution's repositories.
  Which works only in theory - there are many cases where you have to download software seperately, compile it on your own, install it somehow.
  But i'll agree on the general point with you: software packaging and automating is a really big mess on Windows. Enterprises buy lots of software and needs lots of personnel just to simply repackage software for proper deployment.
41. Re:The fear is gone by JackieBrown · 2008-12-13 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  They are free.
  Maybe you should have started with the newer one.
42. Re:The fear is gone by Divebus · 2008-12-13 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  Macs are for either graphics designers, people who don't know any better (yet have deep pockets) or college kids who, in addition to making a fashion statement, aim to be "different" although most computer science majors switch to Linux fairly quick after discovering it.
  
  You know nothing about OS X.
  
  --
  
  Most of the stuff on /. won't survive first contact with facts.
43. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 09:04 · Score: 0
  
  It's like that episode of Doctor Who. Several smaller gorillas, made of fat, broke off from MS. The lighter MS can no longer handle these smaller fat gorillas.
44. Re:The fear is gone by yuna49 · 2008-12-13 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  there are many cases where you have to download software separately, compile it on your own, install it somehow.
  Really? "Many cases?" Name me five programs that an ordinary office or home user would need to compile if they're running a recent distro like Fedora or Ubuntu. I've used Linux for a dozen years now, and lately the only things I need to compile are obscure server apps. I can't think of a single piece of software running on my and my daughter's Kubuntu (Intrepid) machines, nor on my Fedora 8 desktop, that I had to compile from source.
45. Re:The fear is gone by lukas84 · 2008-12-13 10:31 · Score: 1
  
  Yellownet E-Finance (Swiss finance institute, online banking application)
  Kanton Zurich Tax Application
  Both are java, but the Linux variant is unpackaged.
  Depending on what kind of hardware you're running graphics or WLAN drivers, as distributions always seem to lag behind new hardware releases.
  Things get worse if you're an "ordinary user" and want to run current applications on a 3 year old Linux installation. Which works perfectly fine on Windows, but Ubuntu and co. are different here.
46. Re:The fear is gone by StuartHankins · 2008-12-13 10:49 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 2000 Server is still dependable (at least as far as Windows goes). Sometimes an app you want to use either misbehaves with Windows 2003 or is flat-out incompatible (such as HP EVA 4400 drivers not working with 2003 R2). There are a lot of good reasons for staying with something that's a known evil.
  
  Most businesses have to justify the cost of upgrades too.
47. Re:The fear is gone by Dutch+Gun · 2008-12-13 12:10 · Score: 1
  
  Oh okay. Well maybe I misunderstood then. I though the "protected media pipelines" were put in Vista for the purpose of blocking unauthorized copies of music from playing through the OS. Assuming I'm wrong, why did Microsoft put them there?
  No, this would be a total disaster if they actually tried this. They'd have to block ALL APIs that allow unencrypted audio from unsigned applications, and that would break nearly every existing application that currently plays any sort of audio, not just DVD and CD playback. There are too many legacy audio pipelines they'd have to cut off (DirectSound, MCI, WaveOut), and even the native Vista audio API WASAPI allows unencrypted digital output. They'd even have to detect and block third-party audio pipeline implementations, such as Creative Labs OpenAL drivers, or professional-type ASIO drivers. In short, it's absolutely impossible to do that while still allowing any existing application to continue playing digital audio.
  As you surmised, the reason the protected paths are there is because of requirements for HD video playback. This is what would potentially be affected if you don't have end-to-end hardware that does the proper digital handshaking (since HD video utilizes this dedicated path), not any existing video or audio playback subsystems.
  I mean, it would be funny if they tried... Say hello to 2010: Year of the Linux Desktop! As well as the biggest class-action lawsuit in history.
  
  --
  Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
48. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 12:48 · Score: 0
  
  HP has never feared Microsoft like many others PC-vendors do... and since they merged with Compaq it has been even less.
  HP's main cash-cows on consumer market are ink jet printers and ink.
  HP's main cash-cows on enterprise market are SAN, Non-Stop and HP-UX.
49. Re:The fear is gone by PixetaledPikachu · 2008-12-13 13:06 · Score: 1
  
  Out of about 250 desktops (HP, Dell) and laptops (Dell, Lenovo) that the company I work for bought about 3 months ago came with Windows XP Pro. In fact, during 2008, we only purchased 3 units with Vista on them, which is 1 Lenovo X61 and 2 Vaio TZ series. Of course all of them are running XP at the moment.
50. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 14:21 · Score: 0
  
  I believe people started getting over their FUD fear shortly after the release of Windows ME, but the size of the MS bankroll kept them in the spotlight...
  After the recent IMF, World Bank, Citi bank and the Pentagon were hacked, I've downloaded NOVELLS SUSE LINUX 10.sp2 and OES 2.1. (Remembering )When I ran NETWARE I did not have near the problems as I do with Windows Servers. I'm now recommending we purchase SUSE to replace as many Windows Servers as we can throughout out entire company.
  Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing MS or Windows, they have a good application OS...just not a stable server solution. The above mentioned hacks prove that. The IMF and World banks packed up their servers and sent them to MS to fix....yes even their Password server was compromised.
51. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 14:31 · Score: 0
  
  Trained or not, Open Enterprise Server 2.1 is very impressive, I'm sure their Interoperability agreement helped develop an impressive OS, now I can replace my Windows AD Servers with Novell's SUSE implementation of AD running OES 2.1....Yes AD on LINUX!!!!! SWEET!!!!! ....stable once again!
52. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 15:13 · Score: 0
  
  To the contrary, I run (pirated, FTW) iAtkos OS X Leopard on my gateway. And the insanelymac project requires my being very informed of OS X at the system level (XNU), including patching and compiling my own kexts for running non-crApple hardware.
  
  If you ask why I'm doing this after just badmouthing apple a couple of posts above, its because I wish to break the (certified Unix) OS away from the overpriced hardware.
  
  And as far as only college kids using Macs for the fashion statement, the truth hurts: Just ask one of them why they chose Macs over "PCs" (as I do all of the time in Starbucks, where the species in question tend to cultivate) and you'll get the same BS made-up-as-its-said excuse I've always heard: "uhhh, its more stable, doesn't get viruses, and uhh never breaks".
53. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 17:07 · Score: 0
  
  Serves me right for getting gamed by a jackass anonymous coward. You may now return to your obtuse alternate reality.
54. Re:The fear is gone by theaveng · 2008-12-14 00:38 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks for the clarification.
  I can certainly live without HD video. Even though I've upgraded some things (digital television, Bluray player) I'm still using the old standard definition television set(s). I think the picture looks just fine, and I'm sure SD would look just fine on my PC monitor too.
  
  --
  FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
55. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-14 06:52 · Score: 0
  
  Its not as "alternate" as you may think it is.
56. Re:The fear is gone by cbhacking · 2008-12-14 11:26 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft says they'll turn it on starting year 2010 (via an update of course), and then good luck trying to play all your burned CDs and DVDs that lack DRM.
  [Citation Needed]
  Seriously, what you say is *marginally* less unreasonable than that absurd article Gutmann published a few years ago, which was demonstrably untrue on the pre-release Vista systems available then. Of course, he didn't cite any sources either. I realize there's plenty of /. group-think that "supports" your claim, but it just doesn't make sense - it would cost Microsoft too much, for far too little gain - to be even seriously considered without a reliable source to back it up.
  
  --
  There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
57. Re:The fear is gone by tehcyder · 2008-12-14 21:54 · Score: 1
  
  Frankly, I don't know many people buying new Windows PCs. They're mostly buying Macs and half are migrating from Windows PCs. The ones buying Windows PCs always give a sad excuse like "my wife needs it for her work".
  
  Other sad excuses include "I like to play games on my machine", "I'm going to run Linux on it anyway and so don't see the need to spend twice a smuch on hardware" and "I would rather put money in the pockets of the Antichrist than Steve Jobs."
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
58. Re:The fear is gone by badkarmadayaccount · 2008-12-15 04:41 · Score: 1
  
  Yet.
  
  --
  I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
59. Re:The fear is gone by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-16 05:23 · Score: 0
  
  It was a recent Firefox, version 3. Just happened overnight. Yes, that means Vista is broken, because the same installer works fine on other computers.
  Firefox has the same problem on XP. If a user without privileges (on NTFS) tries to auto-update, it (rightly) doesn't work and will prompt forever.
  An admin needs to 1) update it and then clear the userland update so it doesn't try again or 2) give the user permissions to update the Firefox folder.
HP, open source - in the past??? by darkeye · 2008-12-12 20:14 · Score: 1, Interesting

"It has been, traditionally, a company that supports open source â" especially in larger enterprises..."
like when was it when they ever supported open source in any context?
1. Re:HP, open source - in the past??? by bailey86 · 2008-12-12 21:17 · Score: -1
  
  They've had really good support for Debian for ages. Just go to their site and search on 'Debian'.
A few thoughts... by nagnamer · 2008-12-12 20:54 · Score: 5, Interesting

First of all, I wonder if "HP recommends Windows VistaÂ® Business" (c/p from the product's description on HP's site) will go away when Linux offering is finally presented.
Also, I wonder if the Linux OS will be labeled "Genuine Novell(r) SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop(tm)" or just "Novell(r) SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop(tm)". Imagine the following scenario: an unsuspecting consumer comes to the website, sees a bunch of "genuine" Windows products, and then notices a (non-genuine, huh?) Linux-something desktop and goes "Wtf? Why is this not genuine?!"... That'd be M$: 1, Novell: 0...
Yeah, I'm skeptical... They all say they support open-source and free software, whatever. But I think they are just trying to get whatever piece of market they can.
Remember how the Punk movement started off as an attempt to contradict the system, and now it's highly commercialized. You can earn a good buck for pre-torn pair of jeans, and you can sell a circle-A leather jacket... people used to make these things by themselves to make a statement. Now you can get off-the-shelf statements for money. I think it's gonna be the same for open-source. In the end, it's all about money, and they don't care about the underlying philosophies. Consumers don't.

--
Every harsh word you utter has the right address. It only sounds harsh because the one on the envelope is the wrong one.
1. Re:A few thoughts... by jimicus · 2008-12-13 00:32 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  First of all, I wonder if "HP recommends Windows VistaÂ® Business" (c/p from the product's description on HP's site) will go away when Linux offering is finally presented.
  I doubt it. Have you noticed that the wording of that phrase is the same with every PC manufacturer? "${MANUFACTURER} recommends Windows ${VERSION}". It's a marketing thing from Microsoft - include this phrase prominently and get a % discount on your OEM licenses.
2. Re:A few thoughts... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 04:12 · Score: 0
  
  I think it's gonna be the same for open-source. In the end, it's all about money, and they don't care about the underlying philosophies.
  Sure the vendors don't care what they're selling as long as it turns a profit -- but they cannot simply ignore the philosophy of open source software or try to quietly go back to their old proprietary ways. It may be possible today, but in time it will be impossible. Why? Because then they will lose all the advantages of the open source method which earns them money, yet open source will still there. It's still there and still being improved, by somebody else. If they don't cash in according to the rules, then somebody else will, and they will eventually win.
  Once an open source project gains enough momentum, there's no stopping it. There will always be someone there to pick up the slack, or fork it, maintain it, keep improving it. The world is just too big to let it die, and even the biggest corporations in the world can't stop this. After all, they've already tried and failed.
  Slowly but surely, the open source philosophy and method is overtaking proprietary software. Perhaps there will always be a place for proprietary software in ultra-niche markets. Let's put it this way: when open source is the only remaining viable option, what else are HP and Dell going to do?
3. Re:A few thoughts... by Yfrwlf · 2008-12-14 12:01 · Score: 1
  
  Right, of course these companies don't actually recommend it, it's just marketing for M$.
  
  --
  Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
Always supported Open Source?!? by supernova_hq · 2008-12-12 21:11 · Score: 2, Interesting

If they always supported open source, then why do all their laptops have ATI graphics cards, Broadcom Wireless cards and Intel sound systems?
1. Re:Always supported Open Source?!? by Drinking+Bleach · 2008-12-13 00:08 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  They all work in GNU/Linux without any proprietary components, so what are you complaining about exactly?
2. Re:Always supported Open Source?!? by CoonAss56 · 2008-12-13 02:16 · Score: 1
  
  ATI (working) is a oxymoron. They never worked until recently and then badly.
  
  --
  Won't Bow.....Don't Know How
3. Re:Always supported Open Source?!? by benjamindees · 2008-12-13 16:42 · Score: 1
  
  I would simply mod you down, but someone might get the impression that you have made a valid point.
  According to http://bcm43xx.berlios.de/
  
  A Linux driver for the Broadcom bcm43xx wireless chips.
  Broadcom never released details about these chips. So this driver is based upon reverse engineered specifications.
  The same applies to ATI, which only recently began releasing full specs and developing Linux support for newer chipsets.
  HP has definitely not "always supported open source". And they have in the past announced similar small-business-focused marketing initiatives for Linux that turned out to be half-hearted.
  
  --
  "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
4. Re:Always supported Open Source?!? by cbhacking · 2008-12-14 11:36 · Score: 1
  
  First off, "supports open source" is not the same thing as "sells only hardware with free/open-source drivers" although it would be nice if that were the case. However, for a quick example of HP's support of F/OSS, consider the high-end hardware that kernel.org runs on - donated by HP.
  Additionally, while not ALL of HP's systems are 100% F/OSS compatible, they have for a couple years now sold at least a few laptops (look in their business lines; their home machines all come with Windows) with Linux pre-installed and supported. It sounds like they're moving to do the same with desktops now, for which I applaud them.
  On a side note, ATI probably has the best video capabilities from a complete open-source driver these days, since they've been opening all their specs. I realize Intel Integrated has F/OSS drivers, but no driver could make the chips themselves not suck.
  
  --
  There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
5. Re:Always supported Open Source?!? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-14 14:15 · Score: 0
  
  I'm complaining about my Pavillion DV5, which won't wake up after sleeping or hibernating, and the fingerprint reader which isn't recognized.
laser engraver by bbslaser · 2008-12-12 21:13 · Score: -1, Offtopic

laser engraver, laser cutter, laser cutting machine, laser engraving machine, cutting plotter, vinyl cutter
laser engraving, laser engraver, laser engraving machine laser cutting machine cutting plotter, vinyl cutter
laser engraver, laser cutter, laser cutting machine, laser engraving machine, cutting plotter, vinyl cutter
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HP is IBM; IBM is HP by reporter · 2008-12-12 21:31 · Score: 4, Interesting

HP is just executing the IBM plan for profits: (1) sell services and (2) sell hardware/software at a loss (or for free) to sell even more services.
After Lou Gerstner assumed the helm at IBM in the early 1990s, he re-organized the company to focus on services. He shutdown the division manufacturing desktops. He embraced open-source software like Linux. He turned IBM Semiconductor into a contract manufacturer of ASICs. Today, the bulk of both revenue and profits at IBM are due to services. Gerstner's successor came directly from IBM Global Services.
HP followed in the footsteps of IBM and purchased EDS. Just like IBM, HP fired thousands of employees to eliminate redundancies.
Both HP and IBM remain profitable during this ghastly recession. Sun Microsystems, which failed to significantly grow its services division, may not survive as an independent company.
1. Re:HP is IBM; IBM is HP by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 00:52 · Score: 0
  
  (2) sell hardware/software at a loss (or for free) to sell even more services.
  I can assure you, HP isn't doing this. We're absolutely making a profit on hardware. This is public information -- hardware, software, and services are all broken out on the balance sheet. Read the annual report.
Stuff that just makes sense by mcrbids · 2008-12-12 21:39 · Score: 4, Interesting

Small businesses are used to running on a shoestring budget. They will often make a $150 used PC from Ebay "work" because they spent their capital on inventory, or paying taxes, or paying off a balloon payment for a short-term loan.
This is even more the case with the impending recession. Small businesses that can live on a shadow of the income of "the big boys" by staying lean and mean will survive and thrive through this economic shakedown, while wasteful "fat cats" will be pruned like the rotten fruit that they are.
In this space, saving a few hundred bucks can make or break a deal, and HP recognizes this.
Here, for $500-ish, they can offer a "complete office solution" that can only be matched for about $1,200 in the Microsoft camp. That's not a "few hundred bucks", thats OVER FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS difference, pure profit, all of it.
All without sacrificing HP's profit margins!
Of course they are going to do this, as soon as the $500 solution is functionally approximate to the $1,200 solution! (and it largely is, now!)

--
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Adds to to an end-run around MS IE. So what? by operator_error · 2008-12-12 22:14 · Score: 1

Seriously, the only thing HP has achieved in its 'Mozilla Firefox for HP Virtual Solution' is substituting-out IE and replacing it with FireFox v2, (and they are still using Flash 9). wow.

That's true as of this tech note dated September 22, 2008, 1 link from TFA: https://kb.altiris.com/display/1n/articleDirect/index.asp?aid=41672&r=0.4010279

Note that HP is still using some flavor of Windows, running Trend Micro OfficeScan, plus this which gives me the shakes because its called Symantec something:

"Symantec SVS 2.1.2096 Runtime: Software Virtualization Solution (SVS) is a revolutionary approach to software management..."

So firefox is actually opensource, but I see little else that is. Why didn't they use Linux I wonder? Nothing to see here, move along.
Now it's for real by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 22:23 · Score: 1, Funny

2009 is the linux's year!
PLEASE MOD PARENT INTO THE GROUND by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-12 22:34 · Score: 0

thank you
Printer drivers by frisket · 2008-12-13 00:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

If they'd only open up and produce printer drivers for CUPS...
1. Re:Printer drivers by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 06:16 · Score: 0
  
  I'm probably just ignorant, but what's wrong with HPIJS+CUPS?
2. Re:Printer drivers by onefriedrice · 2008-12-13 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  I've never had an HP printer that didn't work swimmingly with Linux. From what I've heard from others, HP seems to be the best supported in their experiences as well.
  
  --
  This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
3. Re:Printer drivers by StuartHankins · 2008-12-13 10:56 · Score: 1
  
  I second that. The HP inkjet and LaserJet drivers are part of RHEL too. They "just work" without extra effort.
4. Re:Printer drivers by digitalunity · 2008-12-13 13:51 · Score: 1
  
  The GP was probably thinking of Canon, where drivers are buggy to non-existent. I've got a Canon laser/fax/scan that is holding the corner of my desk down so it doesn't rock.
  That's all it is good for.
  
  --
  You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
Windows 7 is the polishment WTF ?!?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 01:49 · Score: 0

Dear Mr. Steve Ballmer, "polishment" is not a word. I suggest you spend less time with the Scrotal/Ego Inflation Society and more time with an English teacher who knows what a prescriptive dictionary is.
Besides that, every customer I've set up with XP has holy cow you've helped us dodge that bullet. The Vista people, well their businesses are in bankruptcy.
Worthwhile Linux accounting app for US SMBs? by walterbyrd · 2008-12-13 02:41 · Score: 1

I don't know of any.
As I understand it, Intuit owns about 80% of the US SMB accounting market, the other 20% is split between Microsoft and Sage. Everything else combined, does not have enough of a user base to even register - which is a huge problem when it comes to support issues.
By support, I don't just mean phone support. I mean being able to find people who know, and accept, the product: accountants, consultants, employees, and third party developers. There are also issues of worthwhile documentation and training.
With Intuit, that sort of support is no problem: Intuit developer network, Quickbooks consultant certification program, hundreds of third party add-on products. Intuit is widely accepted, and recommended, by accountants. There are hundreds of books, and training programs, for Intuit products. And Intuit is supported by a real company.
Without a worthwhile SMB accounting application for Linux, I don't see how linux can compete in the SMB market.
1. Re:Worthwhile Linux accounting app for US SMBs? by jvin248 · 2008-12-13 06:56 · Score: 1
  
  SMBs can start with gnucash for accounting... but what they may really want are the open source ERP systems that incorporate all inventory/manufacturing/CRM/accounting into one package. OpenTap is one, but there are a lot currently and expanding in this space.
2. Re:Worthwhile Linux accounting app for US SMBs? by Zemplar · 2008-12-13 16:54 · Score: 1
  
  Although I agree with your sentiment, your use of "linux" is not surprising on Slashdot. However, the US SMB's need an accounting application that is not kernel or platform specific. A good FOSS/GNU accounting application is what's really needed.
3. Re:Worthwhile Linux accounting app for US SMBs? by walterbyrd · 2008-12-14 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  IMO: it does not have to be free, just reasonably priced.
  Web-apps can be difficult to install, that is one of the problems that I have with LedgerSMB, and OpenERP.
4. Re:Worthwhile Linux accounting app for US SMBs? by Zemplar · 2008-12-14 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  IMO: it does not have to be free, just reasonably priced.
  Agreed, especially since decent support will be needed for those less financially or tech savvy.
Is 512 megabyte enough RAM? by theaveng · 2008-12-13 02:57 · Score: 1

I took a quick look at what HP is offering. The $500 PC discussed in the summary only has 512 megabytes of RAM. That won't work with Vista which runs like a snail through molasses, but is it enough to run "SUSE" Linux? Or will that be running slow too?

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1. Re:Is 512 megabyte enough RAM? by yelvington · 2008-12-13 03:37 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  The $500 PC discussed in the summary only has 512 megabytes of RAM. That won't work with Vista which runs like a snail through molasses, but is it enough to run "SUSE" Linux? Or will that be running slow too?
  You must be new here.
2. Re:Is 512 megabyte enough RAM? by jvin248 · 2008-12-13 07:00 · Score: 1
  
  Not sure about SUSE... but load Xubuntu on it and it'll fly. Or load up regular Ubuntu.
  
  The real inexpensive solution - for SMB's with 5-10 or more users is to go the route of LTSP.org It's easy to put into Ubuntu, and probably SUSE too.
  
  Then a moderately powered server with up to 30 thin-clients (or even 10 year old pc's stripped of all drives and network PXE bootable) can function for the business.
3. Re:Is 512 megabyte enough RAM? by benjamindees · 2008-12-13 17:03 · Score: 1
  
  http://www.novell.com/products/opensuse/sysreqs.html
  * Processor: Intelâ"Pentium 1-4 or Xeon; AMDâ"Duron, Athlon, Athlon XP, Athlon MP, Athlon 64, Sempron or Opteron
  * Main memory: At least 256 MB; 512 MB recommended
  * Hard disk: At least 500 MB for minimal system; 3 GB recommended for standard system
  * Sound and graphics cards: Supports most modern sound and graphics cards
  The KDE 3.x series has benefited from a lot of improvements in speed and memory usage. I would expect 256 MB to get you a barely-functional desktop that swaps every time you open Firefox or OpenOffice.org, and 512 MB would run a few basic business apps without problems.
  
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  "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Re:Printer drivers are freely available and... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-12-13 04:55 · Score: 0

If they'd only open up and produce printer drivers for CUPS...
That is a completely unfair accusation. HP have long provided an open source printer driver for 1,531 printer models of HP printers
http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/index.html
Its gonna suck, and suck badly by kaiwai · 2008-12-13 07:50 · Score: 1

Mate, its going to suck and its going to suck badly just like every other Linux attempt. If you look at those who claim they support Linux, and provide Linux on their laptops - have a good look at the list of 'pic failure' when it comes to properly supporting putting the laptop to sleep or find the power management is worse than Windows XP/Windows Vista. What Linux requires to get working on the laptop and desktop is serious money - not only spent on hardware support but the quality of that hardware support. There is no use going on about how great the number of hardware devices are supported - if bugger all of them are written to take advantage of the tickless kernel. This goes for any operating system that is attempting to unseat the Microsoft juggernaut. PS> I'd love to see OpenSolaris succeed - too bad it lacks the money, man power and the leadership in Sun to turn it into a success that it could be.
The only model for this that works is Ubuntu by awpoopy · 2008-12-15 04:04 · Score: 1

If the giants would center around a free version of Linux it would benefit a larger group of people including themselves. Imagine if IBM, Dell and HP all offered an Ubuntu solution with one of their screaming machines? I know there are *other* favorites here in slashdot, however Ubuntu - for the most part (IMHO) has the best chance to work out of the box for *new* users. This would also drive some to other OS's like SuSe, RedHat and others. The sooner more of the masses see the power, stability and security of something outside windbloze - the better.

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I say things which affects my Karma negatively. (and I don't care) For instance; All religion is false.
Ubuntu suggestion to Mark Hurd by awpoopy · 2008-12-19 03:42 · Score: 1

Using the page: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/hurd/index.html I am making a short suggestion to pre-install Ubuntu. Maybe you should also.

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I say things which affects my Karma negatively. (and I don't care) For instance; All religion is false.