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How Apple Could Survive Without Steve Jobs

ThousandStars writes "The Wall Street Journal asks How Apple Could Survive Without Steve Jobs: 'Speculation about the continued reign of Mr. Jobs — which has popped up from time to time since his 2004 treatment for cancer — underscore how closely Apple's fashion-setting products are identified with its co-founder.'"

17 of 331 comments (clear)

  1. This goes for many companies by cerberusss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Meh... Same thing could be said about Oracle or Microsoft. Answer is; it depends.

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    1. Re:This goes for many companies by imamac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It depends on how well Steve is preparing his successors. And it seems he is working at pretty hard and getting them involved in the media aspect, which is one of the biggest parts. (The distortion field must continue...)

  2. Absolutely not! by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Everytime I see a new Apple discussion - like before (and after) the iPhone introduction or now on various products - I see a big set of geeks just not GET IT. By it, I mean the popularity of Apple products, by doing a checklist feature comparison like the back of a software box - as if all checkmarks indicated the same quality. Not all checkmarks are created equal;)

    Anyway, I would suggest that Apple look at how Fashion powerhouses handle succession, and not the typical technology company. Perhaps it would give them a better idea how to handle transistion in a creative enterprise and not just a purely technical one.

    1. Re:Absolutely not! by Nursie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You mean not all check marks are as shiny as others?

      No, I don't get it. The iPhone is not a quantum leap in smart phones. It's pretty, sure, apple design their stuff well, but it's not revolutionary. Neither is/was the iPod. More than that, apple take steps to lock people in to their software and hardware interfaces.

      So yes, pretty, generally a good UI. However I'm damned if I'm running iTunes or letting Steve decide what I can do with my phone.

      Life isn't just about checkmarks, but releasing a product with less checkmarks and then hyping it as the way forward gets to some folks.

    2. Re:Absolutely not! by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's easy to say that, but when you take Apples "Less functional" product and set it next to a "More functional" product you can really see a difference.

      I'm not a fan of their computers, and I don't think much of their design decisions there. But take the iPod vs Every other music player, and it's just sad. Sure, other had more space, sure others supported more codecs, but the iPod blows them away in usability and style (except in the never-to-be-sufficiently-damned annoyance of having to get a third party app to get music off the iPod on to a new computer.)

      Likewise the iPhone. It's slick and intuitive. Sure there were more functional crackberries and palms out there, but they didn't have the full touchscreen, and they didn't have the same sort of development environment...Crippled as it is, people are lining up to make apps for the iPhone.

      And what happens after the iPhone comes out? Everyone else gets a touchscreen phone. They look similar. They have the same or better features. And they just don't work as well. The Blackberry "Storm" is a dog...The software support is terrible, and it's not as responsive.

      They make decisions that cause problems for high end users, but we are the niche, not everyone else. And techies are still getting the iPhone, they're just bitching about it.

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    3. Re:Absolutely not! by DrgnDancer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why? It's normal. You aren't a lawyer, but you must obey and make choices about the law. You aren't a doctor, but you mush make choices about your health. You aren't a chef, but you must cook your food (or spend a fortune in restaurants, I guess). We are all required, as part of daily life, to make choices about things that we understand imperfectly or not at all. This is one of the reasons that corporations and governments seems more powerful than individuals. They can afford to higher one or more experts in many fields and make their decisions based on expert advice from those people. People who are not programmers or systems administrators are often forced to make decisions about their own personal IT, despite the fact that they understand it imperfectly. For that matter, even people who are "experts" in a field often make choices which are either arguably bad or demonstratively bad even in their own "expert" field (doctors who smoke, lawyers who get caught :-P, etc).

      Some might argue that as a programmer/sys admin I made such a choice when I bought an iPhone myself. Personally I'm happy with the choice, the device does what I want in the way I want it to most of the time (it's hardly perfect, but it works for me much more often than not). Never the less, according to many people on this site and others I made a bad choice, and all the worse for being an "expert" in the field. Really though, when you think about it, even with non-experts making the choices absolute crap rarely prospers in the face of stiff competition unless the absolute crap has some sort of entrenched advantage (even then it fades eventually).

      Even the most obvious example, Windows, shows this. Despite the huge advantages Windows has in the OS market, the really poor releases rarely proper. Bob, Me, and Vista all show this. Even XP failed to gain traction until the worst of its problems had been well and thoroughly resolved. I'd still rather have Linux or OSX on my boxes but XP isn't complete crap. I use it here at work and it does what I need it to the vast majority of the time without being to horribly slow or difficult. There are always exception of course, sometime crap beats out the better choice, but mostly the better choice gets adopted eventually.

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    4. Re:Absolutely not! by dancpsu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's easy to say that, but when you take Apples "Less functional" product and set it next to a "More functional" product you can really see a difference.

      No, you really can't. For example, the iPod, which you mentioned, isn't anything particularly special (for the vast majority of models).

      See, you completely miss the point. The innovation with the iPod wasn't the iPod, but iTunes. 99-cents a song for a very large selection, just plug in your iPod and the friendly interface guides people to put music on it. Other companies made you purchase music elsewhere and import it into their syncing software. What Apple saw was a gap--not one in the mp3 player technology, but in the hurdles people had to jump over to get music on them.

      --
      "Scientists don't change their minds, they just die." -- Max Planck
    5. Re:Absolutely not! by redJag · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's gotta be the silliest thing I've read all day. Of course iTunes makes the iPod special. When you have one of the most popular music stores integrated with your mp3 player, you win. If you can't see how the convenience of hooking your iPod to the iTMS helps sell more iPods then you are blind, my friend.

  3. Well by MikeRT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He's an excellent businessman, but let's look at what brought Apple back, in order:

    1) The iMac, which was just a heavily consumer-oriented Mac desktop. This wasn't really a big innovation for Apple, but was the sort of smart business move they needed.

    2) The iPod--which wasn't Jobs' idea.

    3) MacOS X

    4) The fairly high quality of the MacBook and MacBook Pro Line

    5) The transition to Intel

    6) The iPhone

    I love my Apple TV, but it's not a very successful product, over all. Time capsule is probably about the same. The Cube was a failure, and quite frankly the MacBook Air ONLY has its form factor going for it (otherwise it is so hellaciously overpriced that it's like a time warp back to the mid 1990s for Apple).

    I don't really see a whole lot in that list that is unique to Jobs. What Apple needs is competent management that are aggressive and willing to take risks. That is what has made Jobs a success, more than anything else. People tend to forget that some of his ideas have't gone anywhere, but many of them have because they were calculated risks that only a non-risk averse CEO would make.

  4. Apple would do a lot better if... by winningham.2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know how fair TFA is but...

    Apple would do a lot better in my department (one of the biggest departments at one of the biggest universities in the world) if they would get serious about enterprise support.

    My gripes:
    1) If my Xserv fails, I need to call Apple, they will possibly send parts or repairmen but they really want me to fix it myself using my spare kit. I just don't feel that is optimal compared to IBM server support.

    2) Their volume discount is a total rip-off. Again, I am at a major university and our discount is basically the same as the Apple Education Store discount. It is really hard for me to justify my purchases and commitment to Apple.

    3) On a related topic, I know months in advance what machines are coming out and can thus plan accordingly. Apple, with its flair for the dramatic, wants to keep all this hidden and secret. Again it really hurts my efforts when compared to IBM, Dell, and HP.

    4) The Apple support network is a total joke compared to Microsoft or even Novell. Basically I have the same support that non-enterprise Linux has. My best sources are AFP548, MacEnterprise, and sometimes the Apple Support forums.

    5) For those of us that have to integrate with a Microsoft world, AD-OD integration still has a long way to go. Apple seems to break their AD support with every other service pack. I can't believe this couldn't be done better. I know Microsoft has issues with their service packs, but honestly, does it have to be this bad?

    Basically I feel that Apple is such a consumer company rather than enterprise. This hurts Apple penetration, bottom-line sales, and future buy-in from potential customers who want to use the same platform at home that they use at work.
    Steve Jobs just can't get out of his own ego's way to let the correct thing happen. Matt Feeman, our sales rep, is a total waste yet has carried his job for many many years now. There really is no fun left in Apple and only diehard fanboys (myself?) can continue to run what is, IMHO, the Unix-like distributions.

  5. Re:Inevitable by AvitarX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The iMac did a lot for Apple too.

    It was a significant part of computer sales for a season, and Apple's first real stab into non-design for years.

    The iMac is part of how Apple has been so profitable, market at every price point, but have your low end lack features, so nobody can make do that need a little more. The iPod shuffle for example has less features than the original MP3 player (no screen), yet it is Apple, and cheap.

    If you want a real MP3 player, you need to buy the overpriced Nano (well it fluctuates between reasonable and overpriced, depending on where it is in life cycle).

    The iPod already dominated before the color screens even, it was just better looking, and smaller. There essentially isn't even a competing HD based MP3 player market anymore.

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  6. a man with a plan for better or worse by jollyreaper · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The most efficient form of governance is a dictatorship. This is not to say that it is a universally ideal form of government -- for every example we have of an autocrat who was able to get what he wanted and happened to be correct, we can find many other examples of autocrats who got what they wanted and were dead wrong.

    It is easier for a man of singular vision, foresight, and ambition to stand out as a dictator than as one of a committee but men of singular ignorance and venality tend to do less harm in committee form because they're like crabs in a bucket and it's hard for one to rise to preeminence and control.

    By all accounts, Jobs is a bastard to work for. What makes it all the more galling is that is judgment calls are usually right so when your design needs more work, he'll tell you you're a fucking piece of shit, get the hell out of his sight, don't you fucking come back until you have something that doesn't make him want to vomit you cocksucker, you'll want to punch him in the throat. Yes, he could have been nicer about it, but by the time you finally come back with a design he likes, it'll also be the one the customers will go nuts for.

    It's very rare to find that kind of person. When Jobs was booted out the first time, they brought in an airline executive as CEO. He didn't know anything about the industry and said all of Jobs' ideas weren't sticking to the knitting, were going out into left field and would waste money. Pragmatic business people agreed. Hell, I thought going into the music business when they were already struggling making computers was a bad idea. Looks like I was wrong.

    What's driving Apple right now is a productive cult of personality. There's simply not a viable line of succession. Alexander the Great dies, the empire falls apart. Stalin dies, the empire lurches on but nobody in the party leadership will ever again risk letting someone gain that much power again. It's possible for a leader to rise up within the ranks of an existing organization and take it over with such force that you would think he was the founder. Jack Welch did that with GE. Because the market value went from $14 billion to $410 billion under his watch, he's lauded as a genius. Personally, I think he was more like an asshole who got lucky, got some breaks, and knew how to shaft the right people at the right time. He'd been picked as the golden boy to succeed to the leadership role by the previous CEO who later came to regret that decision because Jack poisoned the corporate culture much like a Carly Fiorina. Wall Street didn't seem to care because he made the trains run on time and that's all that mattered.

    What's interesting is Microsoft seems to be struggling from both the lack of vision and the bureaucratic bloat that paralyzes large organizations and prevents meaningful action. This kind of strategic paralysis is usually the opening needed for a competitor to swoop in and steal the market. Apple would normally be in that position except for the huge questions concerning Jobs' prospects for this world. If both companies become wadded up with stupidity, will it finally become Linux's year for the desktop by default?

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  7. Vision, standards, focus by BornAgainSlakr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Jobs does not do anything magical. It might have been his idea to make a better phone, but he did not design the iPhone.

    Rather, he had the vision of how a phone would fit into the ``iLife,'' he held designs to high standards, and he made sure that everyone focused on integration with existing products and the consistency of the experience.

    Standards and focus are what most people view as his ``dictator'' personality.

    This is pretty much what, I feel anyway, Microsoft has always lacked.

    They have no vision. Remember Ballmer scoffing the very notion that the iPhone would have any success at all, let alone surpass WinMo as it just did.

    I cannot say that they have low standards per se. Rather, their standard is to let the user design their software (the focus groups that designed Vista; something about which Gates was proud).

    They lack any sort of focus. Vista is a prime example of this. It is obvious when using Vista that no one had a plan. No one provided any focus. Compound this with the myriad of products Microsoft makes which barely even work each other...even in the same product family (incompatibilities between Mac Office and Win Office).

    So, yeah, those are the three qualities I want to see in a successor to Jobs. There should be plenty of people at Apple with those qualities. Actually, there are plenty of those people anywhere...people like Ballmer just do not recognize them or think they are important. I trust Jobs to find an appropriate person to replace him.

    Also, let's not forget to embrace change. Even someone like Jobs needs to be replaced eventually. They just have to be replaced carefully.

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  8. Re:About as well as Disney survived with Walt by Thelasko · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Funny because it's true, Steve Jobs is Disney's largest shareholder and is a member of the board of directors.

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  9. More than preparation by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I worked for an organization which was carved out of the main organization by the sheer force of will and vision of a single manager who became it's head. She then made life impossible for every type-A person in her organization and put very skillful and considerate but not type-A people in as her subbordinates.

    everything worked great till she left for the next job. Then for ten years nothing got done, no initiatives lasted longer than 6 months everthing was adrift. A succession of managers drawn from her subborindates got us no where. Finally someone from the outside was brought it and things got a bit better.

    The thing about imperious leaders is that they really get the job done. It matters less that they make perfect decisions but that they make a series of connected decisions related to a driving vision. if some decisions are sub-optimal they still are part of the path forward because no one is second guessing the slow progress and everybody is working as a team.

    Jobs had both visions, aggression and a sense of style. Apple sells style but does john Ives have the cojones to command?

    I can only judge shiller and Ives by their brief appearances but they seem a bit too jolly to me.

    It's also not enough to be a tough guy. You actually have to have skills too. That's what happened when Jobs got forced out by the mangerial power plays. Tougher guys without jobs skill and understanding took over and ran it into the ground.

    You need the whole package. Jobs is that guy. The question is not if he's trained his subordinates, but if he scared off all the type-A guys with real skill?

    What about that dude that wrote Beos? Maybe he'd be someone with some vision and force of personality? How about some of those Execs that started TransMeta?

    Or maybe Fake-Steve.

    --
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  10. Apple = Van Halen by DorkRawk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok, sure, Eddie Van Halen (Jonathan Ive) is making all the music and providing the real artistic genius behind the band. But David Lee Roth (Steve Jobs) made everybody listen to it.

    Don't discredit the value of man with a vision and a big mouth.

  11. Because they had it when it mattered by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Disclaimer: I'm not an Apple fanboy, I don't even like Apple, and the Cult Of Jobs makes me want to puke. But even I can see why the iPod ended up on top.

    See, I actually wanted to buy an MP3 player waay back then, and honestly, the iPod was the only sane choice. I actually got a CD-based one instead, but if I had decided to go with a HD based one, it was iPod or nothing.

    Let me tell you some of the other offerings were as big as a freaking brick, for a start. (I seem to remember an Archos like that, for example.) They looked like two 3" HDD's stacked on top of each other. It made my old high-school cassette player look positively sleek by comparison. And I'm not even talking about one of those newfangled small Walkmen, but about a big old thing.

    Some had an interface that was plain old crap and unintuitive. E.g., it took Creative _years_ to fix their bloody interface into something actually usable.

    A lot were actually more expensive than the iPod. Some could actually justify it by having included some extra features... that nobody wanted, or not at that price. Some were more expensive than a freaking laptop. For some, I'm not even sure WTF was their excuse. They seemed to be just bigger, uglier, clunkier and more expensive for it. That was a tendency that continued for _years_: trying to be the iPod killer by costing $1000 or close to that. Heh.

    Etc.

    The iPod may not have been the absolute best in any one given category. But on the whole it sucked the least. As debatable compromises went, Apple hit the sweet spot with their product. It was the compromise that looked the most palatable.

    Basically, sure, you can blame it on fashion and (thus) ubiquity _now_, but think of it this way: it had to start from zero at some point. You can't use your market leader position until you actually win that position in the first place. And back then, IMHO Apple won it fair and square.

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