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Last Major Supplier Calls It Quits For VHS

thefickler writes "The last major supplier of VHS videotapes is ditching the format in favor of DVD, effectively killing the format for good. This uncharitable commentator has this to say: 'Will VHS be missed? Not ... with videos being brittle, clunky, and rather user-unfriendly. But they ushered in a new era that was important to get to where we are today. And for that reason, the death of VHS is rather sad. Almost as sad as the people still using it.'" At least my dad's got the blank-tape market cornered.

73 of 308 comments (clear)

  1. No players on the market by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I recently had the challenge of trying to find a VHS player in a retail store. I couldn't find one, so in that sense the format has been dead a long time. Now that no major manufacturer is producing new media, I wonder in how many years the last playable VHS cassette will wear out. 20? 50? Will there even be an operable player at that time, that can output video into a then-standard format?

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    1. Re:No players on the market by keraneuology · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I still see DVD/VHS combo units around fairly frequently....

      --
      If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
    2. Re:No players on the market by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I recently had the challenge of trying to find a VHS player in a retail store. I couldn't find one, so in that sense the format has been dead a long time. Now that no major manufacturer is producing new media, I wonder in how many years the last playable VHS cassette will wear out. 20? 50? Will there even be an operable player at that time, that can output video into a then-standard format?

      Probably not, although there will probably still be paid services available than can convert them to digital media. Anyone with a VHS collection who still has a working VCR had best get a good framegrabber board and start digitizing them before it's too late. I have a couple of VCRs (although I haven't used them for a long time) and for a mere $100 per tape hour I'll be happy to put them on DVD for you.

      Sure, that's ridiculous ... but wait a few years. People will be paying big money to have little Tommy's graduation video converted.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:No players on the market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here in the U.S. you can walk into your nearest Best Buy, and they likely have 3 different models on the shelf. Lots and lots of other stores have them as well.

    4. Re:No players on the market by keraneuology · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's always Amazon. But Best Buy alone has 9 on their website at the moment. They are out there - slowly fading away, but they're still out there.

      --
      If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
    5. Re:No players on the market by Wild+Wizard · · Score: 2, Informative

      Now that no major manufacturer is producing new media,

      This is certainly not the case on a global scale.

      It seems that the US centric view is striking again as the only news article I could find on VHS production closure was for a Sony plant in France.

      Not to mention that the article in question doesn't even mention a manufacturer, it's talking about a distributor.

    6. Re:No players on the market by flajann · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This speaks to the larger problem, in general, of keeping our media formats current. Even with data, anything we may have on floppy will probably not be readable by anything current today. And I had a lot of cool stuff I worked on years ago on the 8" floppies -- remember those? I couldn't find any 8" floppy drives by the mid 80's, and the ones I had broke down, and the manufacturer had no interest in repairing them.

      Now with Blu Ray out and getting cheaper and cheaper, we will probably see the gradual dissaparence of the old CD format. Already I have no access to the many backups I've made on 90's tape drives -- Travan, I think it was called.

      Much data will simply be lost to the sea change. Thumb drives have displaced the floppy, Blu Ray will eventually displace DVDs, and even IDE drives are beginning to slip into obscurity. I still have stuff on old 40-megabyte SCSI drives (yes, I said MEGA-byte!) back from my Amiga days but forget about SCSI controllers to read them now.

      I did manage to snag a high-end VHS machine from a friend who used to do video productions. It is the only machine I have that can read the stacks and stacks of VHS tapes I've accumulated over the years. But much of that stuff is probably not worth digitizing, and the few things that are are litterally buried in the midst of many, many 6-hour VHS tapes that I would have to spend hundreds of hours looking for. Doesn't seem to really worth the time.

    7. Re:No players on the market by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, Travan, I remember them. Nice drives, long gone.

      I used to run a multinode BBS, and we backed up the file server every night onto an HP Sure-Stor DAT drive. I still have all the tapes, but the drive died years ago. I think I could still find one (EBay, whatever) but eventually that won't be possible. And like you said, it's not all that important anyway. Twenty year old Fidonet messages and thousands upon thousands of old DOS shareware apps. Not exactly stuff anyone really needs or wants. I just couldn't make myself throw them away. Packrat instinct, I suppose. Still ... maybe now's the time.

      After that experience, I back up all my truly critical data (if we really think about what's critical most of us don't have that much ... no, your House, M.D. .AVIs don't count) to non-volatile media, with offsite storage, etc. Everything else gets copied over to the next generation of hard drive every so often. Heck, I've gone from a 5 Mb. Corvus to terabyte drives in the past 30 years. I just keep buying bigger drives and moving the stuff over.

      Like you said, though, you have to stay on top of it. It's all too easy to find yourself suddenly unable to read your old media. I understand that NASA is losing enormous quantities of 9-track tape data from the sixties because they can't find equipment to read them, and the tapes are reaching the end of their lifespan. Not good.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    8. Re:No players on the market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ihr seid beiden Trolle.

    9. Re:No players on the market by sortius_nod · · Score: 4, Funny

      There's a lot here in Australia. Not that I'd buy one.

      Kind of feels like being a caveman using VHS.

      Now BetaMAX, that's a standard you can be proud of.

    10. Re:No players on the market by zoney_ie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      With €10 DVDs and now €5 or less DVDs, even the VHS tapes in my collection that I wasn't actively looking to replace are now getting replaced. There are a handful of films I can't get hold of on DVD yet, but even this year has seen old films released cheaply on DVD - so chances are I'll replace them all. Hopefully the one or two only out on Region 1 DVD will be out on Region 2 eventually - I'm not interested in the lower resolution NTSC DVDs rather than PAL.

      Even the good VHS recordings are distracting to watch nowadays, with the blurring and grain, and sub-par sound. I think I have one or two "Super VHS" recordings made from a perfect TV signal, and these are OK (again, only one or two left now that haven't been picked up on sub-€10 DVD).

      With the £/€ exchange rate, I'm hoping to fill out the cheap DVD collection a bit more in the New Year thanks to Amazon.co.uk.

      ----

      Note - hello Slashdot, 2009 marks 10 years since the introduction of the euro. How about supporting the symbol properly in posting?

      --
      -- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
    11. Re:No players on the market by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have an old, high end mitsubishi VHS I need to get fixed (tape transport mech)...I'd like to get it working again, and use it to hook to my computers and finally digitize a bunch of my tapes. I'd like to get the old, original Live Aid stuff on tape (especially the stuff that didnt' make it to dvd), and some home films of old friends and parties.....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    12. Re:No players on the market by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I need to set up and digitize all my VHS copies of the old original WKRP in Cincinnati episodes....with the real music soundtrack intact....since it looks like copyright and inflated licensing issues will prevent this show from every being put on DVD in its original format. I'd like to even copy off some movies that apparently will never be put on dvd, like Spring Break, The Wild Life, and Endless Love.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    13. Re:No players on the market by Kjella · · Score: 2, Informative

      Honestly, I haven't seen much of a problem since we started using normal file systems, where the files can be arbitrarily transferred to another file system. Every so often, simply copy it over to a new and bigger medium and you're done. I can still open files from the 80s that way and there's no reason to belive formats will become less persistant. Already there's plenty emulation and with virtualization I see even less reason I should ever have to worry even if I may have to run a C64 emulator inside a Windows VM inside a Linux VM inside whatever OS I'm running in 2050.

      But much of that stuff is probably not worth digitizing, and the few things that are are litterally buried in the midst of many, many 6-hour VHS tapes that I would have to spend hundreds of hours looking for. Doesn't seem to really worth the time.

      So if you can't be bothered to find them to preserve them (and presumably index a little better), would you ever do it even if they had eternal shelf life? Or is it just some nice-to-have that you think should be left for your decendants and posterity, as if they're going to dig through hundreds of hours of boring stuff looking for the gold? We lose some information, big deal. With all due respect to antrophologists, we don't need 24/7 records of the boring everyday life of everyone. People lost things before in fires and leakages and break-ins and whatnot before too, it's nothing new.

      With time people will learn to take care of their digital valuables too. Honestly, buy a USB stick and copy gigs and gigs of data on it and carry it with you. Give one to your family or your friends, password-encrypted if you prefer. You don't need expensive equipment, nor bank vaults, nor much time to copy-paste. Just to be a little less lazy and most people wouldn't lose anything at all. I just saw recently how much some photographs that were made 25 years ago had faded. Scanning and photoshopping them now is the only hope to preserve those for another 25. With a little care they'll be bit exact the same in 100 years.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    14. Re:No players on the market by flajann · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ... Like you said, though, you have to stay on top of it. It's all too easy to find yourself suddenly unable to read your old media. I understand that NASA is losing enormous quantities of 9-track tape data from the sixties because they can't find equipment to read them, and the tapes are reaching the end of their lifespan. Not good.

      Really sad about NASA -- that information should be preserved and made publically available. The longer we wait, the more expensive it will be to recover it. We've lost all the details on building the Saturn V rocket, and we lost that a long time ago. Lots of technical hurdles had to be overcome, and it would also be good to have that information preserved for future rocket engineers.

      Then again, the history of mankind on this planet is puncuated with massive loss of information throughout the ages. Libraries are allowed to fall into decay or are destroyed by conquering nations, languages are lost to time, and the like.

      But if there's one thing us humans love doing is creating volumes and volumes of information -- just visit any library.

      And now we have the totality of the Internet, with who knows how many websites, blogs, and what not. Torrents of stuff that comes and goes. More stuff than any one person could read in a million lifetimes -- nor probably would not want to.

      Ahh, humans. A fascinating species, if I may say so myself. It will be fun to watch its progress over the next few decades.

    15. Re:No players on the market by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is certainly a US centric story(unsurprising given the context); but I strongly suspect that VHS is pretty much doomed worldwide. VHS is relatively low tech by today's standards; but it has lots and lots of moving parts in the player, and a fair amount of complexity in the tape(5 screws, a couple of spindles, big chunk of tape, etc). By contrast, something like Video CD is also a very well established technology, and has the advantage of fewer moving parts, shared economies of scale with 12cm optical drives of all kinds, and so forth. VHS might still be better for home recording; but as a cheap video distribution mechanism, VCD is arguably superior and very popular in certain markets.

    16. Re:No players on the market by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Cripes, mods, that's not a troll.

      Then again, the history of mankind on this planet is puncuated with massive loss of information throughout the ages. Libraries are allowed to fall into decay or are destroyed by conquering nations, languages are lost to time, and the like.

      Yes, like the Library at Alexandria, and others along the way, probably many we don't even know about today. At least that's one good thing about the global network, in general (and through large-scale copyright infringement in particular) information is being replicated around the planet on a scale never seen before. If our current civilization falls, hopefull there will be enough information in different places to shorten the next Dark Ages by a few centuries.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    17. Re:No players on the market by WCLPeter · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have an old, high end mitsubishi VHS I need to get fixed (tape transport mech)

      From "tape transport mech" I'm going to assume you're saying that the tape doesn't go all the way into the unit when you insert it? If this is the case it is often caused by one of the belts that drive the gears, that operate the transport system, being worn so it's not gripping tightly.

      This happened to me on my VCR a while back, and still did until my niece decided to spill juice in it. ;-)

      If you haven't done it yet, take the cover off, plug it back in, and then insert a tape you don't care about. Watch how the gears, levers, and belts move. One of them will look like it's slipping. Probably the one that drives the equipment that pulls the tape in, lowering the cage. If the tape gets stuck, pulling the plug and then plugging it back in will usually cause the sensor to read a tape halfway in and eject it.

      Try it a few more times until you can spot what is loose or stuck. Once you spot the location, if it's easily reached, put the tape in and then at the same time use your finger to turn the cylinder / gear / gizmo that the belt is trying to turn. This extra push from you *should* be enough to finish lowering the cage. Obviously if you electrocute yourself, or mangle your finger, or cause any other unforeseen damage to yourself / VCR, I'm not responsible. Use your common judgment and determine for yourself if it's safe.

      I was able to use my old VCR for an extra 4 years, until the aforementioned niece decided it would be fun to spill a drink in there. ;-)

      Of course, if this doesn't work it probably won't be fixable with the "turning gizmo with finger" method. In this case you'll want to look for a local "mom and pop" electronics store that does home electronics repairs. Or you could just look online for another high-end VCR, I do believe they still make them, although I haven't looked.

    18. Re:No players on the market by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 4, Informative

      Obviously if you electrocute yourself, or mangle your finger, or cause any other unforeseen damage to yourself / VCR, I'm not responsible.

      Be aware that the psu is inside the VCR(well end stuff it is anyway) so there will be some transformers with high current/voltage lying about in there.

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    19. Re:No players on the market by retchdog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's wrong with ripping DVDs?

      Throughput isn't that bad, given how much free time everyone seems to have these days; you get to choose the rip quality; and best of all, no (or, very very few) MPAA worries.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    20. Re:No players on the market by value_added · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With all due respect to antrophologists, we don't need 24/7 records of the boring everyday life of everyone. People lost things before in fires and leakages and break-ins and whatnot before too, it's nothing new.

      That boring everyday life you refer to forms the basis of our historical knowledge. Consider, for example, the letters and diaries written during the Civil War with electronic forms of communications related to the recent war in Iraq. The former is housed in museums and is repeatedly poured over by writers and scholars of every sort, while the latter is stored unceremoniously in Outlook and Yahoo inboxes, on transient blogs, and similarly transient backup tapes of White House email servers.

      Your guess is as good as mine as to how history will be written (or re-written) if those records aren't archived, and in a format that can be read for posterity.

    21. Re:No players on the market by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Funny

      I believe that should be "English, motherfucker [, do you speak it]?"

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    22. Re:No players on the market by flajann · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...

      So if you can't be bothered to find them to preserve them (and presumably index a little better), would you ever do it even if they had eternal shelf life? Or is it just some nice-to-have that you think should be left for your descendants and posterity, as if they're going to dig through hundreds of hours of boring stuff looking for the gold? We lose some information, big deal. With all due respect to anthropologists, we don't need 24/7 records of the boring everyday life of everyone.

      You may think me totally insane, but...

      Wouldn't it be cool if we COULD have 24/7 info on the lives of everybody since the dawn of time? Think of how it would change our view of history! Anthropologists would definitely have a wet dream, but more importantly, "history" gets written by the victors, by those who are in a position of power and authority, and they of course write from their own perspectives.

      Meanwhile, many things that happen among the "commoners" are completely lost to time. And yet quite a few of them may have played major roles in the development of history. We'll never know, of course.

      Of course, the practical aspect of having such level of details is another thing. Hence, you see "no need", not so much because the information is completely useless, but because much of it would represent "noise" that would need sifting through at great effort. It would be impractical for us to have that much detail on every bloke on the planet since Man descended from the trees.

      But if we had a way to deal with that volume of information; if we could sic a major set of computers and databases on the Ulitmate Quest of culling out the important stuff...

      Ah, but I veer into the realm of sheer speculation. Hence, my insanity.

    23. Re:No players on the market by T-Bone-T · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's nothing wrong with ripping DVDs except when they are rentals and you don't delete the rip when you return the disc. It seems to me that would actually be called "theft of services".

    24. Re:No players on the market by retchdog · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, it isn't, as long as you return the DVD. It's copyright infringement; neither more nor less.

      It was also clear that we were talking about the practical aspects of the procedure.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
  2. Re:first by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Funny

    first - nothing better to do on christmas day

    Try masturbating. See how well I type with one hand?

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  3. DVD = VHS? by SolidAltar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Except for TiVo there still remains no replacement for VHS's ease of use. Pop in a tape, hit record. I know that there are DVD recorders that can do this but at least a year ago you still had to worry about DVD type, ending a track, etc.

    A large portion of the populace does not have a TiVo or a DVD recorder - meaning they lost functionality.

    1. Re:DVD = VHS? by retiredtwice · · Score: 2, Funny

      I absolutely agree. I do not have a TIVO because in my household tapes get recorded in 2 different places and are never watched at the taping location. Besides, why should I pay someone a monthly fee when I can set up VHS recorders for nothing.

      DVD recording is not very easy (yes I have one) but the VHS tapes are transportable from room to room so you can be watching and recording at the same time. Besides, VHS tapes will last for many many recordings whereas DVDs do not (cheaply, at least).

      And in the case of wife keeping up with episodes, once set up, she doesn't need to do anything except put a new tape in once or twice a week. And she watches in either of 3 places so you just grab the tape and put it in. Quality is not an issue either. 6 hr mode for these shows is plenty good.

      I do have to throw out the occasional tape because it won't sync right (stretches along the edge where the track is) but DVDs are very fragile and prone to damage.

      As far as I am concerned, the demise of VHS is a giant step backwards in the scheme of things taking away more personal capability and flexibility so the cable folks can earn more money by charging us for TIVO and TIVO-type devices.

      And yes, when the cable companies decide to not transmit analog over the air, I expect to have big problems (probably a couple of years, comcast assured me 3 years but I don't trust them). Losing the flexibility of the remotes for regular TV is something I do not look forward to.

      This tendency to make us pay for every minute of watching TV that is absolutely saturated with commercials is a giant scam and you all know it.

      My rant for todsy.

      Now, GET Off my lawn....

      --
      I get it now. If you disagree with the majority on /., you are a troll.
    2. Re:DVD = VHS? by lgw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are DVD recorders out there that are as easy to use as a VTR. Or you could just record on a hard-drive recorder in the room that you want to watch the results in - it's not that hard to run a little cabling. PVRs don't have to come with a montly fee, you know.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:DVD = VHS? by Bill+Dog · · Score: 2, Funny

      And we go full circle. Think about the joking about millions of homes with VCR's flashing "12:00" because they don't know how to set the clock. Old people don't know how to record something on a VCR, and now neither do young people!

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
  4. And when will Blu-Ray players get afforable? by gelfling · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ah yes, never. In a related point, Sony lays off thousands. That's some great plan you got there, Lou.

  5. Security systems by Weaselmancer · · Score: 3, Informative

    Don't most store security systems use VHS tapes for their security cameras?

    If they switch to non-erasable DVD, there's going to be a metric ton of these that just go to waste every day.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:Security systems by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Informative

      Don't most store security systems use VHS tapes for their security cameras?

      If they switch to non-erasable DVD, there's going to be a metric ton of these that just go to waste every day.

      Nah ... they'll just go on hard disk. They just put in a bunch of security cameras at work (all IP-based) and I'm sure the feeds are going to some hard drive array somewhere.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Security systems by flajann · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmmm... This conversation makes me wonder what the storage capacity of a VHS tape is. An hour's worth of video is a non-trivial amount of data. On the other hand, VHS used a very low resolution.

      There was a time where the VHS format was used as a "poor man's" data backup, as was done at one place I worked at back in the 80's. Damned unreliable and always have drop-outs. I forget how much data was storable in that format, but it was dinky compared to what we can do today.

      Then again, there was also a time casette tapes (remember those?) were used for data backup. But now I am really dating myself. :-)

    3. Re:Security systems by bhtooefr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There was also a time that cassette tapes were used for [b]primary[/b] data storage. ;)

    4. Re:Security systems by petermgreen · · Score: 2, Informative

      mmm, pretty high actually. Remember that while the resoloution was low by modern standards there was absoloutely no use made of data compression techniques. The composite video signal was more or less (there were some complications due to the recording gaps created by the helical scan system) recorded directly onto the tape.

      most home recordable VHS tapes can store either three or four hours of PAL video at thier standard speed (tapes used for prerecorded releases are usually shorter and I have seen five hour tapes availible for sale before), according to wikipedia NTSC vhs tapes use a higher tape speed and therefore store less hours) most later VCRs also support "long play" and "extended play" modes which cram more onto the tape (at the cost of lower quality).

      Wikipedia reckons VHS tape has about 3mhz of bandwith (they don't say if that is at PAL or NTSC tape speeds, i'm assuming NTSC since I suspect the wikipedia article was written from american sources) with a SNR of 43db.

      If we assume the noise is white guasian noise then per the shannon-hartly theorem.

      43db expressed as a power ratio is approximate 20000 the base 2 logarithm of this is approximately 14

      per the shannon-hartly theorem (ignoring the +1 since it is negligable) with such a large SNR) this would give a maximum achivable reliable data rate of 14*3=42Mbps

      multiply that by 10000 seconds (about 3 hours) and you get a theoretical capacity of about 52GB.

      Of course considerations of maintaining reliability with poor quality equipment and the fact that perfect codecs don't exist mean the real capacity given by products that used vhs tape for data storage was much lower. Typically a few gigabyte per tape IIRC.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    5. Re:Security systems by Toll_Free · · Score: 4, Funny

      There was a time that notebooks where the only way you could remember to configure the switches on the terminal, but I'm dating my grandfather now :)

      --Toll_Free

    6. Re:Security systems by karnal · · Score: 4, Funny

      *gulp*

      You're dating your grandfather now? Why do we need to know that?

      --
      Karnal
    7. Re:Security systems by Hans+Lehmann · · Score: 3, Interesting
      "Remember that while the resoloution was low by modern standards there was absoloutely no use made of data compression techniques."

      The NTSC television standard itself is quite the marvel when it comes to compressing information to fit into limited bandwidth, especially considering that it was created about 60 years ago. Such concepts as the encoding of color information in a subcarrier at a lower frequency than the luminance signal, interlaced instead of progressive video, etc, were invented for one reason: to get as much information as possible through the limited bandwidth that they able to use. The guys that came up with this stuff were just as clever and innovative as whoever came up with DCT compression.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  6. Re:first by dotancohen · · Score: 2, Informative

    Slashdot isn't that exciting.

    Tabbed browsing is! My /. addiction is so strong that I take porn breaks to browse.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  7. VHS says, call me in 30 years. by SynapseLapse · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When you try to play your DVD-RWs. No, seriously. I've got a Hauppauge PVR150 in my desktop (Salvaged from the sad remains of the first Mythbok that died...) and I've been using it rip my parents old home movies recorded to VHS. These tapes are 20 years old and play great. The question is, what the heck can I burn it to so it might survive 30 more years?

    1. Re:VHS says, call me in 30 years. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Funny

      Are you always this depressing? Or is it just Christmas?

      You must be fun at parties.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:VHS says, call me in 30 years. by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 3, Funny

      print each frame as a still picture on good quality archival paper.

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    3. Re:VHS says, call me in 30 years. by gujo-odori · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I never knew my maternal grandfather, he passed away before my parents even met. He was a great hunter and fisherman, and I'm sure I'd be a far better outdoorsman if I'd had the opportunity to learn from him instead of teaching myself (I'm the only one in my family who's into that). I love the old pictures of him and his buddies that my mom has, with huge stringers of fish, or their hunting tally for the day. I wish there was video to go with those, but that was long before the era of home movies.

      So yeah, people are going to care an awful lot about those old home movies some day.

    4. Re:VHS says, call me in 30 years. by TechForensics · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The *real* question is, who cares? Do you want to watch your parents' 30 year old home movies?

      When I look at my shelves of books, for example, each spine lights up a universe of memories for me. My life would not be whole without them.

      Our lives are made of nothing but memories. The more we lose the less we live.

      --
      Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
    5. Re:VHS says, call me in 30 years. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would *love* to watch some of my grandparents' or even great grand parents' home movies. You know, when they were my age, and my parents or grandparents were children. Most of them are no longer alive, which would be another reason I'd like to re-visit them on film if it were possible.

      Would I watch hundreds of hours of birthday parties over and over? No, viewing highlights once or twice in my life would be enough. Why not watch something that actually has something to do with your life instead of the new Josh Whedon show for one night?

      You know, I'd even love to see footage from great-great-great-grandparents... Mine or yours. You genuinely don't find the idea of footage of daily lives from a hundred or more years ago interesting? I mean from a sociological standpoint, just to see how they dress, and how they interact in a much different time?

      But then, I happen to love my family, and actually take an interest in how they lived their lives before I knew them... I'm not the cynical misanthrope you seem to be. And Merry Christmas.

    6. Re:VHS says, call me in 30 years. by Dogtanian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I mean the Microsoft Office document format is almost undocumentable

      You can still retrieve quite a lot of plaintext by treating the file as ASCII, even if you lose the formatting.

      what hope do we have reverse engineering it from 1000 years from now, especially if there was a civilisation collapse, and the one doing the recovering doesn't have much continuity to ours.

      If they get back to anything like our level, I'm sure they'll figure it out. Possibly with a bit of work, but they'll probably do it.

      Not the obscure weird-ass formats, perhaps, but the dead common ones like those based around MPEG-2, JPEG, etc. Yeah, I think they'll manage.

      Human beings are incredibly ingenious. Did you know that they recently retrieved the colour from a black-and-white copy of UK TV series Dad's Army?

      It was originally shot on colour, but the BBC (as they used to do a lot) wiped it, and only a black and white telecine copy remained.

      The engineers noted that "chroma dots" (v. minor interference caused by the colour signal not having been filtered out of the signal before the mono copy was made) remained on many such films. (The engineers at the time "should" have turned this off, but it wasn't a big deal).

      They managed to use this pattern of tiny dots to figure out what the original colour information had been. Now, that's clever.

      Anyone as clever as us with the desire to retrieve metric assloads of information from rotting media will be able to manage it, I'm sure.

      If they remain very primitive for a long time, I'm worried about more than some hard drives; I'm sure that there will still be a number of human-viewable hard copies anyway. Probably way more than there were of the middle ages as well.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    7. Re:VHS says, call me in 30 years. by triffid_98 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I couldn't agree more, you can play VHS tapes from the 1980s. They won't look great, but they work. That's damn impressive when you consider a run of the mill DVD-R is good for 5-10 years tops before terminal bitrot sets in.

      Although I agree with you, one cannot deny how gracefully that VHS tapes degraded. I guess that's why it's hard for us to completely write off analog formats: My VHS copy of Mission Impossible 1 definitely has streaking on it. My DVD copy of hackers definitely stops playing a few minutes in thanks to a scratch.

    8. Re:VHS says, call me in 30 years. by grumbel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fast forward a 1000 years. Will anyone be able to reverse engineer the media and formats, especially given that the media will mostly be highly degraded.

      The joy with exponential growths of storage space is that it can not only hold all the stuff you need today, but also *all* that stuff you used to store in the past. Today I can have all stuff ever released on the Atari2600, C64, Amiga, early PC and a bunch of other devices on a SD card, i.e. 20 years of computer history in the size of my fingernail and of course I can store all the emulators and source code along with it. You likely won't be able to read it in 1000 years, since then the storage might be completly degraded, but given how computers are all networked and stuff gets copied around all the time, you likely will find a copy of it somewhere on whatever that Internet is called then. Storing the whole Library of Congress today takes storage space that costs less then $1000, just for reference.

      I think the biggest danger for long term storage has nothing to do with the storage device or the format, but simply copyright. Copyright forbids to build a public archive of newer stuff, so very few are doing it. You still find most stuff out there if you search long enough, but there is little or no quality control, so you get quite frequently digital degeneration (i.e. video recoded multiple times, bit flips, etc.). Add to that, that many of the original media might be degraded beyond recovery when copyright allows it to enter public domain, you might end up with quite troublesome mess in 100 years down the road.

    9. Re:VHS says, call me in 30 years. by ErkDemon · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I dunno, I only remember one of my grandparents, and I never got to meet any of the great-grands. It'd be fun to dip in and watch some footage.

      And don't forget, when the world changes, things that we consider now to be too tedious to be worth documenting can suddenly become interesting.

      F'rinstance, I think they used to do guided tours of the World Trade Centre. Did anyone think to record one of those tours? Perhaps nobody did. Perhaps the tour guides didn't see any point (after all, the building wasn't going anywhere), and perhaps the people taking the tour didn't record it, because it would have seemed like such a geeky thing to do, spending the entire tour with a camera in front fo your face, to record a "personal" version of something that's exactly the same as the tour that thousands of other people have taken. And yet, if someone found that hypothetical home movie footage now, how many of us would be interested in watching it?

      There are still things that nobody thinks of recording officially, where the only record ends up being on some piece of retrieved amateur movie footage.

  8. Song of the South by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Probably not, although there will probably still be paid services available than can convert them to digital media.

    Unless it's a major-studio pre-recorded VHS tape that hasn't been rereleased on DVD, such as the PAL release of Disney's Song of the South. These paid services will likely refuse such a transfer request on copyright grounds unless perhaps your name is Bob Iger.

    1. Re:Song of the South by timothy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Song of the South," at least, is widely, and only semi-clandestinely, available on DVD from online sellers. The quality of the copy I bought is certainly not up to Disney standards wrt quality of transfer, but it does include a bonus that Disney's almost certainly won't, if they ever do release it: a parody of Snow White and the Seven Dwarves performed by the SotS's black cast members called "Coal Black an' De Seben Dwarfs." (Cue David Brent dismissal: "Racist.")

      I guess Disney just fears a negative public reaction too much to release the movie, which would be no issue if they hadn't buckled under to protests against it in the first place. It now looks like Disney agrees -- or close -- that the film itself was in some way particularly racist. (More than other films of the time, say, portrayin a similar era.) I was unsurprised that they didn't choose to make their first big Blue Ray film Song of the South ;)

      timothy

      --
      jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
    2. Re:Song of the South by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "I guess Disney just fears a negative public reaction too much to release the movie, which would be no issue if they hadn't buckled under to protests against it in the first place. It now looks like Disney agrees -- or close -- that the film itself was in some way particularly racist. (More than other films of the time, say, portrayin a similar era.) I was unsurprised that they didn't choose to make their first big Blue Ray film Song of the South ;)"

      Funny, tho.....I was just recently at Disney World, and all those characters are still prominately displayed on the log ride there.

      I really think it is a shame, that our society is so fucking "PC" now, that we won't still show programs that might have something not politically correct. I mean, c'mon...this IS a piece of history of the US. Media of the past should be available so that people can see what people thought and how much was acceptable in the past. Not making things like this available are almost like re-writing history. Do we not learn from the past both good and bad?

      This almost seems, in the US, to be the commercial version of censorship that many European states do with regard to Nazi symbolism and historical content or artifacts. Geez people...it happened....don't run away from the past, view it....learn from it....move on.

      Hell...I think it actually would be healthy for people today to know where society has come from...show them that cartoons often had characters blowing up into "black face"...and let people see for themselves how society has changed over the years.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  9. DVDs still don't have everything by Cookie3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Although I haven't been in a store that sold new VHS tapes in years, I'm a little apprehensive.

    While it is true that many shows have been re-released in DVD format, there are plenty of titles that did not (and/or will not) see re-release. In many cases, these aren't "essential" or "good" works, but film historians often use relics of the past to show the evolution of a director's style or the level of technological development at the time. They might also use these works to show the political climate of the country it was produced in, or as a source for historical evaluation.

    If you need to make a film based in 1988, wouldn't it be nice if you had a lot of filmed material from 1988? What if you can't get access to what you know you need because it was all copyrighted, but never released on DVD? What if you can't find a collector who's willing to sell you their VHS tapes?

    I don't think it's a fault so much of VHS going out of the market, but of copyright law. It's easy to find a VCR, or a tape deck or a record player, but finding a specific release from those mediums is nearly impossible without extensive searching, often commanding high prices from collectors. If that material was considered out of copyright, I could take my library and digitize it, throw up a torrent, and *poof* it's around for forever.. but because I can't, it will sit around until I'm an old man before there's even a glimmer of hope that it might be made available to the public.

    --
    present day... present time... hahahaha...
  10. User Interface by AtomicSnarl · · Score: 4, Funny

    Almost as sad as the people still using it.

    You push it in the slot, push Play, and it works. No menus to wander, no special features to get in the way, no Director's Cut, no frigging mind games with some dinky remote with tiny print and bitty buttons to poke at to get the bloody thing to play, now. Get off my lawn! Damn kids these days... Harumph. Where did I put my bifocals?

    This message sponsored by AARP, because you'll be old someday, too!

    --
    Pacifist paratroopers yell, "Ghandi!" when they jump.
  11. No unskippable ads by JSBiff · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While I mostly like DVD's, there is one thing about them that have always angered me. With VHS, you could pop in the tape, hit Fast Forward, and cruise by the 10 minutes of crap at the front of the tape (Copyright Warning, obsolete trailers, etc). I sure wish some DVD maker would produce a unit that would let me skip right to the main menu on a DVD, instead of forcing me to sit through that first 5-10 minutes of filler. I just want to watch the movie, already, and it seems to me that if it's *my* DVD player, it ought to obey *me*, not the disc producer.

    1. Re:No unskippable ads by phillymjs · · Score: 2, Informative

      Amen. I just watched a movie on tape that I haven't re-bought on DVD yet. While I was amazed at how bad the picture quality was compared to the DVDs I'm used to now, the one thing that was very nice was being able to just fast-forward through all that bullshit at the beginning that I'm now used to having to sit through.

      I used to have a DVD player that let me do what I want... it was GE-branded but my understanding was it had Apex guts. Some Apex players had a 'secret' menu that let you set them to ignore 'no skip' flags and other stuff, and also let you set the player to be whatever region you wanted or shut the region crap off entirely. When this was discovered, Apex players got yanked off store shelves in the US. Do some googling, I'm sure you can still get your hands on one somehow. Mine died about a year ago, and I just bought a run-of-the-mill Sony to replace it.

      ~Philly

    2. Re:No unskippable ads by kvezach · · Score: 5, Informative

      That err, "feature", is called the User Operation Prohibition flag. Some DVD players can be patched to disregard the UOP, others disregard the UOP by default. Do a web search if you're interested... I note it's also considered DRM, which just shows exactly whose "rights" are being preserved here.

  12. Re:And I heard... by flajann · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...the same supplier is providing video tape transfers to DVD for free.

    That way we don't have to buy dvd copies of movies of already paid for.

    But the quality -- the quality will sucketh big time.

  13. This isn't about blank VHS media, folks! by adnonsense · · Score: 5, Informative

    I RTFA (hey, it's Christmas!) and using my advanced English comprehension skills can hereby inform you that it's about what's apparently the last major supplier of content in the VHS format in the USA giving up on VHS. It says nothing about manufacturers of VHS media (aka blank tapes) stopping production.

    I bet blank tapes will be available for a good few years yet.

    1. Re:This isn't about blank VHS media, folks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hey, you're not supposed to research anything, just rant about something tangentially related!

      Read the FAQ's of how to post on Slashdot!

      (Insert random newbie slight here) ;-)

  14. This may sound weird by JamesRose · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But actually, VHS was a really good understandable, because you knew exactly what was happening, the video was recorded onto the tap and the tap moved along and the video played. It was all very mechanical and logical. It wasn't fast or high def, and god knows they'd break easy, but with CD, DVD, HDD, HD DVD, Blu-ray you have to learn 20 000 000 different formats, plus there isn't the same direct logic to it, it's like the video is stored on this shiny magnetic layer, and you directly skip from one place to another.

  15. Re:betamax ftw by MsGeek · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually, the Betamax cassette DID win. There are still thousands and thousands of TV newsrooms that use Digital Betacam for one application or another -- usually for ENG camcorders. And because of this, the tapes won't go away that quickly.

    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
  16. Re:So which format is next DVD or BlueRay? by MsGeek · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
  17. Re:THINKGEEK has converters by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And another problem, Macrovision and such.
        I bought an AIW card a few years back with every intent of converting a lot of my vhs to digital format(s) and found at the first sign of macrovision or such the image would get DELIBERATELY garbled.
          Will these converters 'honor' macrovision, or will they actually work?
    If they don't ignore such crap they're useless, and If I bought one I'd send it back as not working as advertised.

    Mycroft

    --
    https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
  18. Rosetta stones by drolli · · Score: 2, Funny

    Buried below stone plates with the engraved pictures, we can place punch-cards (made from platimum coeated tungsten) for binary formats and engraved text for text formats.

    I suggest the following set to understand todays state of the internet:
    -a messed up word document containing an non-logical formated cruelly layouted document
    -frames from a porn movie
    -a spam mail, ehich demonstrates how to encode mail in multiple character sets (i imagine this would give them a headache....)
    -a crazy frog mobile ringtone
    -a flash game

  19. A Brief Moment of Silence... by coaxial · · Score: 2, Funny

    For the day that users could fast forward past the FBI warning is now gone. And so as remember this day, let us recall those guiding words: Be Kind. Rewind.

  20. Re:THINKGEEK has converters by lysergic.acid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i guess it all depends on how resilient VHS is as a storage medium. the format has been used for over three decades. billions of VHS cassettes have been manufactured and sold. there have been millions of video titles released to VHS only. many documentaries, cult films, instructional videos, etc. were never re-released on DVD.

    i imagine it will take quite a while for all those VHS titles to be ripped/converted to digital format before they're lost forever. we'll probably continue to see new VHS-rips popping up on BitTorrent sites for another decade or so if the cassettes themselves hold out for that long.

  21. Advantages of VHS by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The advantages of VHS (and, for that matter, of audiocasettes) are simple and easy to see. You can give a VHS tape to your toddler. He will not break it. He can probably even throw it across the room a few times, and it'll be fine. Your kids can rifle through the library to find their favorite film. Until you get absurdly violent with them, they're not going to break. You can't say that about CDs and DVDs. You can't even really say that about the average CD case, though DVDs are marginally better.

    DVDs are a scratchfest. It's somewhat sad.

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  22. killing the format? A somewhat US centric concept by marxz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Killing the format" no sir, I think not, I've little doubt that just like the Compact Cassette the VHS will remain as at least a viable format (and probably the dominant format) in markets from Eastern Europe to China and probably a vast majority of Africa and South America for many many years after the western markets abandon it.

  23. Re:THINKGEEK has converters by Tintivilus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Use a timebase corrector between the source and your capture card. It'll clean up garbled VHS video and accidentally strip macrovision in the process.

  24. Generous thought, but not CRT TVs to Africa... by electrogeist · · Score: 2, Informative

    Aside from the prohibitively expensive shipping costs, and african electric being 220V/50Hz, there is also the issue that CRTs from the USA may not operate correctly in the southern hemisphere

  25. Define 'affordable' by dreamchaser · · Score: 2, Informative

    A very cursory search shows me players starting at around $115. Define 'affordable'? They've come down a HUGE amount in price already.