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How Small Can Computers Get? Computing in a Molecule

ScienceDaily on what the future might bring for atomic-scale computing: "Joachim, the head of the CEMES Nanoscience and Picotechnology Group (GNS), is currently coordinating a team of researchers from 15 academic and industrial research institutes in Europe whose groundbreaking work on developing a molecular replacement for transistors has brought the vision of atomic-scale computing a step closer to reality. Their efforts, a continuation of work that began in the 1990s, are today being funded by the European Union in the Pico-Inside project. ... The team has managed to design a simple logic gate with 30 atoms that perform the same task as 14 transistors, while also exploring the architecture, technology, and chemistry needed to achieve computing inside a single molecule and to interconnect molecules."

29 of 143 comments (clear)

  1. well thats more just the processor... by wjh31 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    rather than the whole computer, i see no reason why consumer computers need ever get any smaller than a phone if you want it portable, or small enough to be fitted to the back of a screen for desktops

    1. Re:well thats more just the processor... by Mozk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Smaller transistors means more efficient transistors. It's not just about size.

      --
      No existe.
    2. Re:well thats more just the processor... by locster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      OK but what if you want to put them inside nanobots designed to target and kill cancer cells or a zillion other applications that are made possible by smaller and less power hungry computation? Smaller also means more powerful computers at the 'classic' scale, for which we know there is demand for right now by way of the very existence of supercomputers.

    3. Re:well thats more just the processor... by Hylk0r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not only that, but it also means you can have millions of (parallel) processors on a tiny chip, which results into more performance.

    4. Re:well thats more just the processor... by IceCreamGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

      You seem to think computers operate using a combination of "processors" and "magic". You are mistaken.

      You just rocked my world view.

    5. Re:well thats more just the processor... by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 2, Funny

      mostly, yeah.

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      -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
    6. Re:well thats more just the processor... by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Remember back in 1984 when the first Mac was released touted at a size of a stack of paper. Considered small and light enough to move anywhere. Then when the laptops (real Laptops, not the luggable) were released while today are considered huge and bulky but at the time they were small enough to carry with your books.
      As computing shrinks our idea of size goes down too. The Stack of paper Mac, was considered really small because computing at the time the easiest job for moving anything with computing was the stack of green bar paper to the line printer. Then as they shrunk to the size of laptops and notebooks they are smaller then the books you have to carry (at the time) anyways. So small enough for your needs. But as time progresses the need to carry the books and just your laptop. Now we are starting to get decent performance out of the pocket cellphone size, where it is that much easier to carry. However still you need pockets or some way to keep it attached to your person. I would predict actually stylish warble Computers in the future, just as the bluetooth headsets are becoming today. But perhaps comfortable glasses, or audio based computation. If audio based computation then it may get smaller to say technology that can be implanted in your ear wax, for a semi permeant hold of the technology. The problem is we tend to think of computing as we do now. Such back in 1984 where computing was used in conjunctions with large books, a lot of paper and was used as we use a TI8x series calculator today. But then as their performance increases the way that we do work with computers have changed. And it will change in the future too.

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      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  2. How small can computers get? by Finallyjoined!!! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is the wrong question I think. The size of the "computer" is really dictated by the interface. It would be great to have a computer the size of a halfpenny, but how would you access it?

    --
    If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
    1. Re:How small can computers get? by reset_button · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's only if a human needs to interface with it directly. If the tiny computer had networking capabilities, you could access it through that. How about a pre-programmed computer that collect data from their surroundings? They could be injected into a person's blood stream for health monitoring, spread around the worlds oceans, and even dispersed in the atmosphere. And that's just one direction that you could go with this. Don't limit your thinking to the computer that you're sitting in front of.

    2. Re:How small can computers get? by Kugrian · · Score: 4, Funny

      Electronic viraga?

      "Mind passing me my phone before we start? Just need to SSH into my penis."

    3. Re:How small can computers get? by suggsjc · · Score: 3, Funny

      Lets hope not windows as I'd hate to get the BBOD (Blue Balls of Death).

      --
      When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
    4. Re:How small can computers get? by IceCreamGuy · · Score: 2, Informative

      So how would transistors and gates the size of atoms help, in any way, to fit a computer onto a penny? Are we actually talking about the article here or are we talking about some imaginary full computer that is the size of a penny and has nothing to do with the article? We already have full computers: memory, BIOS, clock, and RAM that are the size of a penny (power supply is a long way off, though), they may not run Windows, but I mean you can go buy a microcontroller that has all of those basic functions for $99. The point of smaller gates is not to "make the computer smaller," but to put more gates in the same amount of space, thereby giving you more processing power for the same amount of energy, money and fabrication efficiency (the bigger the die, the less efficient the fab process is due to defects, though I guess with atoms and molecules traditional fab theory goes out the window.)

  3. Angels dancing on the head of a pin time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Really the question is how small becomes impractical? I remember the calculator cold wars. It hit the limit when everyone realized how silly a pen one was when you couldn't read the display or use it without a tiny stylus. Eventually the cost of reducing the size will be astronomical so even if you can what's the point? We can make antimatter fuel it's just so insanely expensive that without a major technical leap you aren't going to be powering a car much less a starship with it. There may be uses justifying continuing to reduce computer size but already they are about as fast as people need for most apps so the biggest benefits would be power useage and cramming more computers into places they don't belong. Expensive doesn't make for good disposables so it'll have limitations. It's exciting stuff but don't hold your breath on having a super computer the size of a pin head. Can it be done? Yes. Will it be practical? Unlikely.

    1. Re:Angels dancing on the head of a pin time by castironpigeon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nanocomputers are very practical. Consider only the applications in biotechnology - computers that tiny would allow for everything from intelligent nanobots to do cellular level maintenance to a nanobot conglomerate that could actually replace failing cells - even complicated ones like neurons. And if you can create a neuron, you can create a nervous system. And if you can create a brain... I'm oversimplifying it, but you get the idea. We're not strictly talking about biotechnology anymore, are we?

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      mmmm...forbidden donut
  4. halfway there? by wisebabo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The real key to all of these and all non-trivial efforts at Nano technology is for these devices to be self assembling. By non-trivial I mean other than "simple" things like nanotubes or quantum dots. These simple compounds can now be produced in industrial quantities through basically chemical/physical means.

    While it is very very impressive that they can do this, in order for this to become practical, they will have to make millions, no billions, no trillions, no quadrillions... of these things at once or they have to be able to duplicate/reproduce themselves. The (self) "assembler" is, of course, the holy grail of nano-tech.

    Hope I see it before I die and that it doesn't cause my (and all of our) deaths! :P

  5. In the 1960s by Kupfernigk · · Score: 5, Interesting
    There was, as I recall, a TV programme in the UK called "Tomorrow's World" in which the presenter once prophetically ridiculed the idea of handheld computers. After all, what could you possibly use them for?

    Combine this kind of idea with recent research on PNA (a more robust molecule than DNA which shares many of the properties) and the long term prospects could be very interesting - self-assembling memory, for instance.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:In the 1960s by Elladan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Broaden your vision. This is about making smaller components.

      What can you do with smaller components? Well, right away, you can put more stuff in the case. Your iphonanopalmtop thing can have a foldout screen and keyboard, or a bigger battery, or it can simply be lighter. I don't know about you, but I find an iPhone a bit hefty.

      Now, if you look beyond next week, smaller components let you do entirely new things. You think technology is sufficient now to put a computer in a palmtop? Whatever, dude.

      I want a computer in my eyeglasses. Optically corrected screens overlaying my vision. High resolution. And I want them to weigh the same as a normal pair of glasses. Don't forget to throw in a video camera for good measure.

      Can we build something like that now? Or course not. That sort of thing today is either a huge bulky piece of headgear, or it's moderately bulky and has a terrible display. We need better components: much smaller, much lower power, faster.

      Don't ever say we've reached the limits of useful computer technology. Until you're plugged in directly via your visual cortex and have a robot butler who brings you waffles in the morning, we haven't even reached the limits of uses we can already imagine.

  6. How small can they get? Do they run Vista? by Seriousity · · Score: 2, Interesting

    An uncle of mine works as a deputy mayor for the local government here, and was quite pleased to find out that everybody, including him, that worked in the council would be given a free new laptop. Naturally, he imagined that it would be smaller and faster - alas, now his job is far harder as he has to lug around a big heavy slow piece of shite.

    Meanwhile, atomic-scale computing is created, and at this stage its hard to say whether this is a step or a giant leap in the right direction.

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    This post was made in complete sincere seriousity; as such any attempts to derive humour are doomed to instant failure.
    1. Re:How small can they get? Do they run Vista? by dov_0 · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, but someone ported Linux to it...:D

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      sudo mount --milk --sugar /cup/tea /mouth /etc/init.d/relax start
  7. Soo... by Subverted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    30 atoms doing the work of 14 transistors... Does this mean that the amount of transistors(logic gates) able to be fit on a chip is now more than exponentially larger? Of course, depending on how easy this would be to adapt to commercial production(and get them talking to eachother) might it be the plateau that Moore's law predicts?

  8. Damn by zoomshorts · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sometimes I misplace my laptop. How will if find my tiny computer
    in the future? Will I wash it by mistake? Can it take the dry cycle?

    Grrrrr.

  9. Wow by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 4, Funny

    And you thought laptop screws were hard to find when you drop them on the living room carpet...

  10. What about cosmic rays ? by Alain+Williams · · Score: 4, Interesting
    A bit of radiation whizzing by would not just 'flip a bit' and make the computer/program crash (or even worse - produce an erronious result) but could dislodge a few atoms and physically damage the computer.

    So are we going to have to shield tiny computers with an inch of lead ?

    1. Re:What about cosmic rays ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Doesn't normal RAM get hit by cosmic rays and radiation? AFAIK it also suffers from bits being flipped incorrectly. Even Flash memory suffers from individual cells dying without much problem.

      I am sure there are ways to offer redundancy and failover between molecules, eg. you could create self assembling groups which all do the same calculation, a controller could then decide which ones are right based on probability, dead molecules could be marked in the FAT... err I mean the MAT.

      Most of the technology we use today is being bombarded, changed and destroyed by cosmic rays and radiation. The fact that these molecules are smaller means it might be easier to make them more resilient to attack from the cosmos, we certainly will have a lot more to play with.

    2. Re:What about cosmic rays ? by loafula · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, we won't need to shield them with lead. The 6 foot thick heat sinks should suffice.

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      FOXTROT UNIFORM CHARLIE KILO
  11. Won't work near Tchernobyl by bad_alloc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If the atoms get hit by some radiation the molecule should either break or (if hit whilst calculating) return a wrong value. So basically you'll have to cover your computer with 8 cm of lead, which istn't exactly in EU health standards.

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    "This sentence is false" - sending a computer to hell
  12. No (or rather, probably not) by Mathinker · · Score: 2, Informative

    > is now more than exponentially larger?

    It's impossible to tell if it's scaling linearly or exponentially or whatever from just one data point; however, unless the atoms are working in a totally different computing paradigm (like quantum computing), it's unlikely to be more than just a linear factor of improvement.

  13. Why is this insightful?!! by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 2, Funny

    There are these things called radio waves. They're used to transmit and receive data without the need for wires. You should try 'em, I've heard they're all the rage! I've even heard they can make the receivers/transmitters really small. Personally, I'm pretty sure this a just a fad.
    STOP
    I'll stick with my telegraph, thank you very much.
    STOP

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    Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
  14. Content-free article by autophile · · Score: 3, Informative

    I much prefer to read Eric Drexler's PhD thesis, Molecular Machinery and Manufacturing with Applications to Computing. Chapter 11 (nanomechanical computational systems) is particularly interesting.

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    Towards the Singularity.