Palm Announces Killer New Phone

Barence writes "At CES, Palm announced what promises to be the product that finally matches and even betters the Apple iPhone, and certainly looks to be the most important product announced at this year's Consumer Electronics Show. It's called the Palm Pre and it's based on a completely new operating system, called Palm webOS. Its key specs include a 3.1in 320x 480 touchscreen, 8GB of storage, UMTS HDSPA support (in the UK version of the phone), 802.11b/g WLAN, Bluetooth, and GPS. It also includes a slide-out Qwerty keyboard, 3.5mm headphone jack, and what Palm described as the 'fastest ever' Texas Instruments OMAP processor."

Comments

How many iPhone killers is that?

[danaris]

Thus far, I have yet to see an "iPhone killer" do anything of the sort.

If Palm wants to do so, they're going to have to do everything the iPhone does and do it better. That means the interface and the integration, as well. The past decade of iPod dominance has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that neither a laundry list of features nor a very appealing price can compete with cool factor and a really nice user experience.

Dan Aris

Re:How many iPhone killers is that?

[jellomizer]

Chances are if they come too close to be an iPhone killer they are using some of apples patents.

While I do like seeing competition for the iPhone and iPod, It seems that a lot of people seem to miss the little details that Apple likes to put in its product, that makes it that much better.

For example I will use OS X and Ubuntu with AWN. They both have a fancy dock. AWN has way more features then the Mac OS X Dock. However it isn't really that usable. Things such as if you run a new app. I want to right click the running application and say keep on dock. Or just being able to drag and drop an App into awn from your file system browser... And get the correct Icon. Being able to group all open windows of the same application together. I am not talking about eyecandy, (like the OS X animations when you zoom in) but actual usability that people tend to miss when trying to copy the idea.

Re:How many iPhone killers is that?

[mdwh2]

If Palm wants to do so, they're going to have to do everything the iPhone does and do it better.

This is an unfair requirement - the Iphone after all doesn't do everything that every other phone does, after all! Missing features are accepted as "not something I'd need" or hand-waved away as "Grumpy featurism". So the same should be true of the Palm - it's okay to miss features, as not everyone may need every feature. As long as it just works, that's all that matters. It's the double standard - Apple products are okay as long as they have a "cool factor" (your words, not mine), but other products are held to some impossible standard of "must be able to do everything that any other phone can do, and more".

The only reason there's yet to be an Iphone killer is the same reason that there isn't a Nokia killer or a Motorola killer - no phone company is in a dominant position (and certainly not Apple - not even close I'm afraid), and no company has yet to produce a "killer" phone to put them in the dominant position.

The past decade of iPod dominance has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that neither a laundry list of features nor a very appealing price can compete with cool factor and a really nice user experience.

Ipod, yes. We're talking about a different market here.

Re:How many iPhone killers is that?

[Simon Brooke]

Thus far, I have yet to see an "iPhone killer" do anything of the sort.

If Palm wants to do so, they're going to have to do everything the iPhone does and do it better. That means the interface and the integration, as well.

The device has a keyboard. It isn't a good keyboard, but even so it's a whole lot better than the keyboard on the iPhone - and the lack of a keyboard is a significant part of the reason I don't have an iPhone. The contacts management software which was demo'ed is way better than the iPhone's. And if, as claimed, the device has good Microsoft Exchange support, then for many commercial users it's one better than the iPhone on that count as well.

Sure, it isn't a better music player. It may not be a better movie viewer. But the iPhone, despite being very pretty, isn't actually a very good telephone - contacts management is poor, reception is poor, battery life isn't good, sound quality is so-so. It's a great phone for people who don't use a mobile phone for their work - but most people do.

Of course, the iPhone's killer app is the iTunes store. For non-technical users it is quite simply the easiest way to locate, buy and install software to the phone. Palm (and Google and RIM and Microsoft) have to equal that, and it will not be easy.

Re:How many iPhone killers is that?

[beelsebob]

What I find disturbing is that people consider this to be "the most important product announced at this year's Consumer Electronics Show." When as explained in the article, it's something that's as good as a product that's already been on the market for two years.

There seems to be an unhealthy amount of Apple hate in that statement - either the iPhone is a good product and has been out for 2 years, making this unimpressive (though good that there's competition); or the iPhone is an awful product, and this being "just as good" is thoroughly unimpressive!

Re:How many iPhone killers is that?

[bytethese]

I think you are confused. By stating "If Palm wants to do so, they're going to have to do everything the iPhone does and do it better." I believe danaris was referring to the fact that if you want to compete directly with a product, you should do what it does and do it better. In addition, I might add that a ___-killer should do something ___ does not do, and do it rather well. Further, The only reason there's yet to be an Iphone killer is the same reason that there isn't a Nokia killer or a Motorola killer is an incorrect statment. That's like comparing Apples to Oranges (NPI). To say Nokia Killer or Motorola Killer, you would need to say Apple killer not iPhone. However this product is not meant to "kill" Apple as a whole, but a product they produce, the iPhone. If you said no one has made a Nokia N95 killer or a Motorola RAZR killer, then that would be a better comparison.

Re:How many iPhone killers is that?

[stokessd]

You left out "insanely zealous fan base willing to pay twice as much for a shorter
laundry list and more vendor lockdown than half a dozen competitors".

By that logic, Apple has a zealous fan base that consist of like 75% of the MP3 owners. However only like 10% of the computer market (if you are being very conservative), so does that mean that these huge droves of apple fanbois are abstaining from buying an apple computer?

I'd argue that you've got about as many hardcore mac fanbois on the iPod as you do in the computer market that will buy anything apple sells, that should be in the single digit percentages overall. The rest of the 75% dominance of the iPod is from an actual good design that outshines the other mp3 players.

The iPhone is no different, there is a small percentage that buys it because it's from Cupertino, the rest of them are buying it because it eclipses all other smart phones out there for them.

Sheldon

Re:How many iPhone killers is that?

[StreetStealth]

There's a huge difference here.

Apple was basically telling developers "you can make iPhone-optimized websites! They're just like apps, honest!"

Palm is telling developers "our SDK is based around web conventions that any web developer would already be familiar with."

Probably the biggest difference here is that with WebOS, you're actually installing an app to run locally. Pre-SDK iPhone was nothing more than websites that could disappear once you ducked into the subway.

Re:How many iPhone killers is that?

[itsdapead]

and no company has yet to produce a "killer" phone to put them in the dominant position.

You're assuming that "dominant position" means "top selling". There are other forms of dominance - one of which is illustrated by the fact that we're having this discussion at all. The iPhone has become the benchmark against which any new smartphone is judged by the press and blogosphere.

It's the double standard - Apple products are okay as long as they have a "cool factor" (your words, not mine), but other products are held to some impossible standard of "must be able to do everything that any other phone can do, and more".

Thing is, Apple don't try for the ultimate feature list: they decide which features most people will actually want, and implement them well.

E.g. the iPhone famously doesn't have MMS. My HTC Windows Mobile smartphone does, and I've sent exactly 1 MMS message which took half an hour of faffing around to discover that you have to set the camera to the right resolution for MMS before you take the photo (and then remember to un-set it when you want to take a good quality photo). I think WM has cut & paste (another area where the iPhone gets slated) but buggered if I could successfully copy an EMAIL address from a text message into the contacts... The WM media player is unusable (iPhone is excellent); the web browser is unusable (iPhone may not have Flash and Java, but IE Mobile barely has HTML). On WM I can use my own MP3s as ringtones, but from the number of missed calls I get, I strongly suspect that people are hanging up before WM has got round to staring the player. Oh, and the phone is so carefully designed that its impossible to pick up in a hurry without pushing one of the buttons thoughtfully positioned exactly where you natually hold it (another reason for dropped calls). Maybe the iPhone camera isn't the best: but if I gave a toss about picture quality I'd use a proper camera with a proper lens: I've yet to successfully take anything other than a blurry mess with WM.

...so until I've had my hands on any new "iPhone killer" and determined that the impressive feature list has actually been implemented by someone with a clue and some capacity for attention to detail (i.e. it isn't a Windows Mobile device with a lipstick-on-a-pig iPhone lookalike skin) I'll reserve judgement.

I did have a play with the Google G1, and really, really want to like it, but the hardware is frankly bizzarre, the "real" keyboard is so small and untactile that its no better than the iPhone's on-screen keyboard and the processor doesn't have enough grunt to run the (not bad looking) web browser smoothly.

Re:How many iPhone killers is that?

[Halo-]

2) Palm is apparently allowing access to the hardware via CSS, HTML, and JavaScript (details are scarce right now), something no one else does right now

Yeah... what could possibly go wrong with that idea? :)

*Finally* matches/betters the iPhone?

[VShael]

There have been plenty of phones on the world market better than the iPhone for some time now.
The iPhone wasn't even the best phone in the world when it came out.

Re:*Finally* matches/betters the iPhone?

[cowscows]

Palm built a brand once. Then they squandered it. They could build it again.

Apple went through the same pattern.

This could save Palm

[moosesocks]

Support Verizon, and I'll be the first in line for this. Why is it that we never get any love from the phone manufacturers?

I don't think it's *quite* on the level of the iPhone, though it certainly seems to have come the closest of any thus far. The UI looks a lot nicer than Android, and the hardware nicer than the iPhone (physical keyboard FTW).

As long as Palm make the price reasonable, and keep the application interface as open as possible, they'll sell a ton of these.

Frankly, I'm impressed, given that virtually everyone's been expecting Palm to kick the bucket in the near future.

Palm didn't say that

[ConfusedVorlon]

to be fair to palm, they have been very careful about avoiding the term 'iPhone killer'

From Newsweek:
>>>
So: is it an iPhone killer? McNamee wishes people wouldn't ask that question. "Everyone in the cell-phone business has missed the point. They're all trying to make an iPhone killer. I don't want to compete with Apple. Why the hell would you want to get in the way of that machine? I look at the guys who are trying to compete with Apple and I think, Are you guys crazy? I just want to learn from Apple's experience."
>>>

What there need to be an iPhone killer?

[jotaeleemeese]

That would be a sensible aim if the iPhone was the market leader.

Now, show us some reference where the iPhone is shown to be leading the market.

From Nokia's Q3 report:

"Nokia estimated mobile device market share of 38%, down from 39% in Q3 2007 and down from 40%
in Q2 2008."

and later

"NOKIA MOBILE DEVICE VOLUME BY GEOGRAPHIC AREA (million units) Q3/2008 Q3/2007 YoY
Change Q2/2008 QoQ
Change
Europe 27.4 29.0 -5.5% 27.1 1.1%
Middle East & Africa 21.5 19.3 11.4% 21.1 1.9%
Greater China 19.8 18.9 4.8% 17.6 12.5%
Asia-Pacific 33.6 29.5 13.9% 36.4 -7.7%
North America 4.5 5.4 -16.7% 4.5 0.0%
Latin America 11.0 9.6 14.6% 15.3 -28.1%
Total 117.8 111.7 5.5% 122.0 -3.4%
"

From Apple's 2008 Q4 report: "Quarterly iPhone units sold were 6,892,000"

So Nokia is selling 117 million units, Apple is selling 7 million.

According to Nokia's report the global market for the period was 300 million units.

Again, why do we need to kill the iPhone?

That the iPhone is mentioned as the aim to be killed is a testament to the marketing skills of Apple.

The general public is not that stupid: we don't want network lockin (not in Europe, not in East Asia, the biggest mobile markets) and people are clearly finding the iPhone deals extortionate.

Certainly other companies need to do something about the mindshare that Apple is enjoying now, but I wonder how important that is going to be once Steve Jobs leaves Apple. His marketing based vision of the company will be difficult to be push by somebody that is not as charismatic as him (he has been described as a cult leader, which is not far from the truth).

Re:3.5 mm? o.o

[cayenne8]

"I hate being in college sometimes."

No...stay there as long as possible...it is your last place to be where fun/childish behavior is sanctioned and acceptable.

Sure, you have more money when you get into the real world, but, you also have to work, and have responsibilities. Especially if you get married. If you want the best of both worlds...don't hurry into marriage when you get out. In that case, yes, you have some more adult responsibilities, but, you do get to keep and burn more of that money you start to earn for yourself...and you can still get away with acting somewhat like an idiot, and you don't have someone bitching at you to 'act right'. You also are strapped with potentially a lifetime ending anchor of a kid...at least not yet.

So..stay in as long as possible. But, once out...stay single for awhile...no need to get completely locked down into full 'adult' life right away. At the very worst...if you have to, don't marry the girl, just live with her....kinda like leasing with an option to buy.

:)

Re:3.5 mm? o.o

[AvitarX]

I think you're completley wrong on the marriage thing.

I certainly wouldn't rush into it, or rush into having children, but being married gives me one person I can be fun/childish with every day guaranteed (living with would work here too). Being married also has a huge benefit when it comes to wasting money. My wife and I can afford, and maintain a 3 bedroom house, either of us on our own would not be able to afford a 2 bedroom apartment, or maintain a house.

Additionally I vacuum half as often save 30-50 percent on the bills, and don't need to cook all the time (most of these apply to living with someone too).

These are not reasons to get married, I just simply wanted to point out it is not the end of childishness/fun. If you really want to commit to spending your life with someone, and makign the compromises that will be required (it's two way if done right) it is not something to dread or avoid. And it can certainly lead to having more money to spend on yourself, not less.

Re:3.5 mm? o.o

[clickety6]

.it is your last place to be where fun/childish behavior is sanctioned and acceptable.

Or have kids. Nothing keeps you younger or acting more child-like than playing with kids - plus you have an excuse to but all those cool toys you didn't have when you were a kid and want to play with now! :-)

Heh...

[BrokenHalo]

Ah, but I suspect that you haven't read the famous quote from Sigmund Freud:

"Two can live as cheaply as one, especially if they both have good jobs."

Thrown in FWIW as devil's advocacy, since I actually agree, having been married for over 20 years...

Re:3.5 mm? o.o

[Archangel Michael]

And sometime after you finally get your college loans payed off, and you're married with a mortgage you're paying and three kids, you'll be saying

. wait for it

. wait for it

.

  "I wish I was back in college".

Sooo...how were the original iPhone apps written?

[danaris]

The real difference between the Palm Pre and the iPhone when it comes to developers, is that all Palm's standard apps that come with the phone were written with javascript, CSS, and HTML. They're "eating their own dogfood", so to speak.

So do you think the original iPhone apps were not written in Objective-C using Xcode?

Dan Aris

Re:3.5 mm? o.o

[Toonol]

That is completely wrong. Having kids gives you a second, wonderful, childhood.

Re:3.5 mm? o.o

[stei7766]

Every month...same chick...who knows exactly which spot to touch.

No akward first-time-with-new-person sex.

It totally sucks, lemme tell you.

Re:3.5 mm? o.o

[fahrbot-bot]

My wife and I can afford, and maintain a 3 bedroom house, either of us on our own would not be able to afford a 2 bedroom apartment, or maintain a house.

Just my $.02, but while this may be true, it can set you up for The Two Income Trap. In the long term, you'll find greater security (and happiness too) by living closer to the means of only one.

Case in point. My wife died three years ago, but as we always lived within the means of one salary (mostly), financially I'm fine, as would she have been if I had died instead.

Re:3.5 mm? o.o

[cayenne8]

"Every month...same chick...who knows exactly which spot to touch.

No akward first-time-with-new-person sex."

Yeah..but, then she gets fat...etc...and you're stuck with her.

Not to mention (and I heard this from a LOT of my married friends) kiss BJ's good by...she just did that to snag you.

Apparently the old joke about what food destroys a woman's sex drive (wedding cake) holds true for a lot of them out there, and you don't find out till after your married and then your screwed (no pun intended).

Apparently you got lucky. Good for you...

Two Income Trap

[shmlco]

"However, with 2 earners you're only losing 40-60% of your household income in the face of a layoff, versus 100% for a 1 income. This makes a 2 earner household more resilient."

A two earner household is only more resilient if, and only if, it can stay afloat for a significant period of time on a single salary. If, as the parent implies, they need BOTH salaries to make the mortgage payment, the car payments, pay the student loans and the credit cards and the other bills, THEN they are susceptible to the Two Income Trap. Lose just one salary in that case, and the ship begins to take on water and sink.

Further, you tend to imply that gross overspending is the major cause behind bankruptcy, when in fact two of the major triggers are job loss and medical problems. Get sick, or involved in a significant accident, and one wage earner can lose their job just when they're getting hit with major medical expenses. Children are a issue too, but often because parents buy that "two income" house in order to be closer to better schools.

If at all possible, it's best to try to keep base expenses within the range of a single salary, and use the second for savings and investments, vacations, eating out, supporting hobbies, and so on. Then, and only then, is a two earner household truly "more resilient" and not susceptible to "the trap".