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Class Teaches Nerds Social Skills
PeterAitch writes "According to Reuters, Potsdam University in Germany is now teaching social skills as part of their IT courses. This is intended to 'ease entry into the world of work'. The 440 students enrolled in the master's degree course will learn how to write flirtatious text messages and emails, impress people at parties and cope with rejection(s)." The class is taught by a superficial model, who will fall in love with the nerdiest student at the end of the semester after realizing that he is beautiful on the inside.
Remember, Kevin Mitnick was a computer hacker, but an even better social engineer.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
Many of the "nerds" I know are not socially inept because of lack of training. It's because they have a disorder or disease. Not bathing, incredibly wierd behaivoir, etc... The "hot chick" is not going to date you because you are...
1 - dressed like a wierdo. Sorry Emo/Goth is not cool.. It's as bad as dressing in a star trek shirt.
2 - Social tact, you have to actually have some.
3 - Hygene.. good god, take a bath, discover toothpaste, and deodorant, cheap cologne is not a substitute.
4 - There are no good pick up lines. Stop trying, stop reading the speed seduction books, they do not work if you do not understand human psychology and look like a "hunk" or at least semi cute to a woman.
5 - Nerdy = dorky and repellant. the second you mention you're a top notch national MTG player they will ask to go to the bathroom and never come back. Magic the Gathering is NOT COOL, nor any of your really nerdy activities.
Now all bets are off if you find a nerdy girl. I strongly suggest never even trying for the hotties and look only for nerdy girls. Librarians tend to be nerdy and incredibly sexually creative. Honestly a HOT CHICK is not worth the pain of their upkeep, and maintenance.
Find a nerdy chick that is a bit of a sex freak and you got a incredible relationship.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Social Intelligence is a skill that can be taught and learned. That is how most people get it although somewhat unconsciously. Inherent personality does play a role which is why "Nerds" have to work harder at learning it.
So is quantum mechanics, but like with social skills some are just basically hopeless.
Because the majority of the world runs on Social IQ more than we like to admit.
When was that in question? I work with a number of very smart people who I wouldn't even think of putting in front of a customer. Of course, there are also smart people who can hold a real conversation, so I think this stereotype is overplayed.
You have to know your stuff, but if you can't express it you'll always be the guy they stick in a cube where he'll never interact with anyone. That guy also has his ideas stolen quite often, unfortunately.
As children (4th thru 6th grade) my wife and I attended a once-a-week school for the gifted in Okaloosa County, Florida (think Destin-area) as the gifted program. Not only was it like college, where you signed up for classes in things like Chemistry, Children's Theatre, or Visual Arts - but they had an amazing class called "Looking Good". Dr. Christensen taught one class for girls, and one for boys on etiquette, dating, ballroom dancing, hygiene, etc. At the end of the year, they held a dance at which the two classes would interact. I have to say it left a huge impression on me over the years - and I feel my life, particularly in social situations, was greatly enriched by her program and teaching.
meh
It's an odd toss-up, and the one mistake many people make in homeschooling - the social isolation. However, there are good reasons to keep them out as well - so many of the kids in schools are also socially stunted with crazy, short-term priorities and morals and values that are absolutely worthless. Self-control is frowned upon.
I've heard of some other curious instances, like elementary kids being homeschooled for a few years and then placed into schools, where they nearly immediately assume leadership roles in their classroom and don't have the self-esteem issues from being picked on so much.
There's also something to be said from learning social skills from adults rather than other immature kids.
I'm planning on homeschooling, btw, if I cannot afford a good private school.
If you do homeschool I'd really encourage you to find a way for your kids to regularly interact with their peers. I spent 5 years working with high school students. Every kid that came in that was homeschooled took at least a year to stop being socially retarded. It was almost impossible to have a conversation with them when they first started coming. After a year or so you could actually talk to them about something they were interested in and they had developed sufficient social skills to build friendships with the other kids. Obviously my experience isn't scientific, but I'm not exaggerating - Literally ever homeschooled kid, literally over a year.
You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
Humanities classes are definitely useful, whether they're designed to give you specific skills you need or not. Having some knowledge of techniques, theories, and discoveries from fields other than your own, and a basic knowledge of the art and literature of your culture (or even other ones) can give you different perspectives on your work and help you understand what's going on in the world. Similarly, math and logical reasoning skills are important for writers and musicians, and colleges usually make them take classes in those subjects. The classes most engineers take in the humanities are usually at about the same level as the ones most musicians take in math, just scratching the surface of the subject in question. Sadly, neither group tends to take these classes very seriously, and misses out on opportunities to think in different ways.
The reason why nerds have that weird behavior is because they can get away with it. This is because they essentially have nothing to lose, and the capital that I'm referring to here is acceptance and validation by his peers. Since he knows he would never "get anywhere" with them anyway, he has no incentive to have the hygiene or tact that you mention.
If his self-esteem is even lower, then he claims those "outsider" social trappings (emo/goth) as part of his identity. This is a way for outsiders to gain companionship, but, inside, many of them want out.
The only way for an individual to gain self-esteem is to earn it. It can't be given to him by teachers who hand out "Good Job!" stickers to all students regardless of effort. An individual has to meet people, make friends, take chances, stand up for himself, refuse to be abused, be positive, and be funny. If he's rewarded for that behavior with more friends, then he gains self-esteem.
High school teaches us nerds all the wrong things about human interaction. Being punished for our choices drives us farther into seclusion and "nerdy" behavior.
Teaching "social skills" won't fix anything. Instead, send people to therapy and help them find ways to rebuild their destroyed self-esteem. Telling a nerd, "Bathe every once in a while!" is not going to do him any good if, inside, he says to himself: "I'm not worth the effort."
My self-esteem was destroyed when I was 12. It took me until I was 34 to earn it back.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Surely the point of the training is that some nerds don't know the point at which ordinary human interaction becomes harassment, and because of this either fail to communicate or get into trouble. I didn't know this and then ended up in what was nearly a single sex university (Cambridge at the end of the 60s) - it took several years in the world of work to recover.
It's also worth pointing out that when nerds do get married, which they usually do, it often turns out very well. Low divorce rates, successful children. The application of intelligence to human relationships is not a bad idea.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
At very bottom rung of the self-esteem ladder is furries. No matter who you are or what you are into, you will be accepted into a furry community. It's a great big love-fest over there. It's no surprise that there are so many gay guys and nerdy guys among furries: both of them have traditionally had their self-esteem utterly ruined by the time they graduate high school. The furry community provides them with a perfect escape from the hell world they've grown up in -- this escape is a fantasy world where everyone loves them.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
I personally think this is a cool idea for a class. Just think how YOU would respond if they brought in Jeri Ryan [imdb.com] as a guest speaker!
I would have asked her why she kept playing a role that sucked and how she feels about being the final nail in the coffin of the last Star Trek series (Enterprise doesn't count) ;)
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Congratulations you are like the typical New York Cityer who think NYC is the center of the world and the rest of us are a bunch of country bumpkins. Having lived in Albany, NY (you know the Capital of NY). NYC are a bunch of Whiny Babies... Oh we need this service oh we need that... We need more money from Upstate. I don't see what is so adult about needing a high paying job to live life equivalent of a college dorm room.
Of course this is partially tung in cheek, Buy New Yorkers (City) or LA while have a diverse population and there unique culture, It doesn't really make them any better or adult or worse then the rest of the world, just different, being adult is about taking responsibility for yourself and your own actions.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Not only is your experience not "scientific" (as if experiences could be), it is not typical.
I worked in higher education for many years. The consensus among my colleagues was that homeschooled kids were usually in the top tier of academic work and had no more problems with social interactions than any other college freshman.
In short, they were normal students who were better prepared academically that the majority of their peers.
The Tao that can be spoken is not the one eternal Tao
I see the over-inflated sense of superiority hasn't faded.
While I don't necessarily begrudge pitying those who went through traditional primary education (whether public or private), the quality of homeschooling is hardly better on the average. You may quote statistics about likelihood to go to college (and yes, the ratio of homeschooled children admitted to college is higher than public education, though pretty much on par with private education -- which says more about the average income of homeschooled families versus traditional education), but the matriculation rate is comparable.
The lack of standardized curriculum is a sticking point. Beyond a doubt, traditional education offers opportunities which are nigh-impossible to get while home schooled (extracurricular, Johns Hopkins Math Program, et al), while home schooling provides a chance to tailor to individual students. Whether or not that is a good thing is up for debate, I guess. Certainly what I'm doing for a living now is not what I thought I'd want to do when I was younger.
What is certain (other than "for certain" being a grammatically incorrect construct) is that you get out of education what you put into it. It's also certain that a far higher proportion of home-schooled students are taught in religiously-charged environments which are hardly free from bias. There's a reason why home-schooled children, while often doing well at spelling bees (though it's hard to tell whether this is because those are skills autistic people -- who may have trouble with traditional education -- excel at), home-schooled children don't exactly dominate science competitions. "High-potential" students will excel no matter what situation they're thrown into, but the majority of people are average. Total range of vocabulary is pretty much the same between the two (journals of cognitive development and speech pathology cover this every few years), and having an "adult's capacity" for vocabulary (where I suspect you meant that home-schooled children tend to use allegories, metaphors, and figures of speech more prevalent in the adult population) isn't necessarily something to trumpet. Your phonotactic repetition is not representative of vocabulary size, and simply indicates that you (as collective home-schoolers) spent more time with adults than with peers in your age group.
Slashdot isn't the best place to debate the relative merits of schooling systems, but you'll find that reality is a lot more nuanced than the picture you have of it right now as you get older.
"The more corrupt a society, the more numerous are its laws." -Tacticus
I find that age gives me the edge. There may be some biografic details to that, but being a end-30ties geek and nerd I find the big stars among my peers dimishing and me rising to new heights. It is only last year that I had my second and third sex & love-affair ever, and all three (including my first) know about each other and accept it. I remember nearly killing myself over not having ever had a girl at the age of 23 back in the early nineties. Now I find myself growing cooler by the year.
My geekishness and passion for the things I liked doing still burns and reflects back on me and has early twen PYT students at currently hip CS flat-sharing parties judge me about late 20ish and brake into heavy flirting. ... That 22 yr. old nurse at the last party was particularly cute. *sigh*
I was the typical nerd that didn't consume great amounts of alcohol back then and stopped drinking 20 years ago, which starts to give me an brainpower edge over my former-jock-now-fat-ass springbreaking peers. Instead I stayed up late on Fidonet, RPG and Tabletop sessions, pimping my social skills, my typign, wording, debating skills and my literacy. On top of that, everything awkward and geeky back then is super hip now. Comics (now Mangas), Fantasy, IT and computers, programming (gives you the status of some high priest at some occasions nowadays) and gaming.
Now I work at a game dev company with a current growth rate so bizar you wouldn't believe it, and am one of the oldest and most experienced amoung a team of currently 180 people. The 'young' guys come to me every odd day with a question, and when I give them an advice they listen and are gratefull.
I got my ass kicked by the pricks at school so many times, I still burn with fury sometimes just thinking about it. I've practiced performing and martial arts since the end of highschool and today I'd outrun every jock, who have all grown fat and lazy and/or have tar-lungs because they where cool back then and started smoking. And then I could still beat the living piss out of them, 5 at a time.
IMPORTANT ADVICE TO EARLY TWEEN NERDS: If you are a young male geek and nerd, rejoice. You're time is ten to fifteen years into the future, when your peers, girls included, have enough life experience to have learned what you know allready. Pratice art, take your time to learn about style, fashion and manners geek style (i.e.: learn it systematically like a new PL), stay in shape, go and take dancing lessons (I'm picking up Tango again next month), cut smoking and alcohol and live healthy and at the age of 30+ you'll be able to take your veritable pick of the litter of good-looking girls who can appreciate intelligent, reasonable men. When the pricks have burned all their karma and you'll kick their ass on every scale available and of interest to attractive women. Oh, and the sex will be awesome. Promise.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
A lot of people might laugh at something like this, but I'm not. I don't work with tons of people who might be considered "nerds" but that's mainly because my industry is a little less tech-heavy than a typical IT company. But, I have worked with tons of nerdy consultants/contractors.
There's two main types -- the first is the cultural nerd. Many people in IT have different backgrounds and come from all over. Some may not be used to American culture or know how to act in certain situations. The second is the typical native-born stereotypical basement-dweller nerd. Working with one of these tends to be very difficult just because they annoy most "normals." I'm not a social genius either, but I know what is and is not appropriate in a work setting. I show up to work in clean clothes, shower regularly and really try to take an interest in whatever topic a coworker wants to talk about. Some people I work with really don't make this effort.
Even a class on "what to do in a work environment" would be a huge plus. How many times have you had to cut off a colleague who kept interrupting in business meetings and saying "No, you're wrong, that'll never work."
Anyone left stateside in IT in the next ten years or so is going to have a really hard time finding work if they can't at least interact with people.
I'd recommend that anyone that's tired of this "shit" read The Game by Neil Strauss.
Now, you might have to slightly disregard some of your morals, but the methods in this book work.
Also, try to find a well groomed friend (preferably female) to give you fashion advice. Women enjoy making over geeks. You *have* to go shopping sure, but nothing is ever easy.
Your experiences may be correct, but don't let "home schooled" be a label you just put on people. I was home schooled from third grade until high school. During that time I was involved with many extracurricular activities from athletics to various clubs (both social and academic).
When I did come back to high school, I don't think I was any more awkward or disoriented than any of the other kids moving up from middle school. The biggest difference I really noticed was how far ahead I was above most of the students curriculum-wise (even compared to the "advanced" courses I took). Additionally, I earned a starting position for two varsity sports my freshman year (soccer and wrestling), began playing football my sophomore year eventually earning a starting position my junior year. I graduated with a 3.86, was named "most outgoing" and got into a top 25 university (Vanderbilt).
That said, I know exactly the type of people you are talking about. They were some of the most socially awkward people I have ever met. This was mainly due to their parents super controlling nature, and I honestly feel bad for the years it will take them to adapt to the "real world."
Still, my point is that this group in general is sensitive to stereotypes (ie. "Nerd") and the associated negative social connotations that they hold. Home schoolers are no different. Many may have social issues, but that probably has more to do with the atmosphere they grew up in.
To throw a little extra into the debate. I think that home schooling is a fantastic method for teaching when an appropriate environment is available. From the more focused curriculum , to the individual attention, to the flexibility of schedule it has many advantages. However, I think it is all to commonly used by parents who want to control all aspects of their children's lives. It is most often these people who give the overall system a bad reputation. Still even though we may or may not choose to home school our own kids I will adamantly defend it as a choice for parents.
When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
No-one's mentioned introversion / extroversion yet? Briefly,
75% of people are extroverts. They gain energy from social interaction.
25% of people are introverts. They lose energy from social interaction, but gain energy from solitary cogitation.
75% of intellectuals are introverts, and only 25% are extroverts. This is probably why the 'socialising for nerds' class is necessary.
Environmentalism is the new Victorianism. Everyone ties on a green corset and pretends we're virtuous.
HAI
I CAN HAZ CHEEZBURGER ?
KTHXBAI
For some reason it makes more sense to me than that damn txt-speak my kids use.
Society has rules. Sometimes the rules are pretty hard to figure out but a large majority of us get taught the rules from a very early age.
I find it frustrating that the obsessive nerds that will sit down with a problem and not sleep until it is solved (for fun!) won't apply the same practices to interacting with those around them.
Join a group but for god's sake, if you don't know what you're doing, shut the hell up! Be polite, answer questions concisely, and, most of all, smile. Sit back and observe those around you. Be shy. Shyness is one thing. Being obstinate and abrasive is a completely different thing.
You'll get the hang of it with practice but just like any job, you can't jump in at the highest levels without learning the ropes first. And you learn better when you're listening and attentive.
What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
he is desirable because she is successful and will give your children a higher chance of likewise being successful and producing viable offspring.
Just because someone is well-dressed and clean doesn't mean they are successful.
I know many people who are far better groomed than I am, but are also up to their neck in debt. I'm not saying it's because they spend all their money on superficial things, but it sure doesn't help their net worth.
I also know some people who do things like buy businesses so they can fire the people who treated them like crap because they weren't dressed like they just walked out of GQ. Jeans and a workshirt do not always equal "poor slob"... in this case they mean a guy who has 20,000 acres of prime Texas land filled with cattle.
Riddle me this: why is it that if someone has trouble in math or something, other people who can do it will offer to help, but if someone is socially inept, the immediate reaction is to ostracize the person rather than offering to give them social coaching? I have helped people all my life in technical areas where they needed it, but not one time has anyone made any such offer to me.
My theory as to the reason people don't help socially inept people when they do help with topics like maths or history or whatever, is that it is obvious if you don't know that stuff - there is no way or reason to hide your lack of knowledge. However, when it comes to social situations (speaking from my own past experience now), sometimes while one does know the answer, one is too shy or too afraid of mocking to act correctly. Now that I am (somewhat) more socially capable (it took me a while to build up guts etc), I don't help others who are making the same mistakes, as I know that had someone come up to me and told me what to do, I would have felt patronised and even worse than I did already, because I already knew what to do.
The problem here is, of course, what if the person has no idea what to do and would really appreciate the help?
So - nice people don't like to be patronising, and not-nice people don't care. One solution could be to go up to a nice, somewhat nerdy but socially adept person and ask them to help you - they may know what you are going through but didn't want to hurt your feelings...
I was friends with a homeschooled girl back in college, she wasn't bad at socializing, she was extremely friendly and extremely talkative.
But you could definitely tell she was homeschooled because she was sweet to the core and so ready to love a stranger. It was disarming to see so much naivetè. There are a number of "walls" that everyone puts up around new people and she didn't have them. I didn't even recognize these walls existed until I met her.
She assumed everyone would be a great friend and treated them as such, she had a much shorter sense of personal distance, and was much more open to physical contact. I am the polar opposite, everyone who's not my friend isn't worth getting to know, and I don't want to be touched by anyone but my closest circle of relationships. I'm not saying my way is better, or even that it's a rational behavior. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'd be happier if I was as social as her(though I'm pretty happy already). I just hope she won't end up burned somehow by being so open.
I'm definitely not the first person to say this, but, well...
Fuck. That. Shit.
I didn't read The Game, but I read many of the more "esoteric" books in the community, like the Juggler Method, Mystery Method, etc. etc. etc. And I realized, after meeting many people who were really involved into this shit, that really, it's a bunch of crap. The best thing to learn from it is that it's a good way to differentiate between what to do and what not to do. Everything that the pickup community stands for is everything that regular people SHOULD NOT DO.
I was involved in it for a few months after a friend convinced me to join the community, and boy, I was in for a ride. I came out of it extremely disgusted and wanting a bit of normalcy in my interactions, such as, well, actually communicating on the spot and not out of a script. There were literally people in the community who would write down and memorize every possible conversation possibility and act it out in a bar. What they don't get, however, is that every situation is different, even if the spoken words are exactly the same. The context determines the language used, whether it's body language or spoken language, and when you are acting out a script, it often comes off as very incongruent to the situation. It's awkward, for short.
I don't recommend ANYONE to get into that pickup community crap. It's morally bankrupt, and you won't learn a damn thing, unless you go in there totally skeptical (like I did) and come away with some knowledge about how not to act.
I know, all of the above is probably borderline trolling, but from first hand experience, I would absolutely not recommend anyone to read those retarded books. Just be social and learn slowly by immersing yourself in friendly conversation.
"Hegelians, who love a synthesis, will probably conclude that he wears a wig." - Bertrand Russell
The social world is a biological ladder tournament. Through practice and preparation, you have to put yourself ahead of as much of the competition as possible. Just watch the animal shows on the Discovery channel. We are exactly like them but a little more complicated. We are a herd and you have to fight for your place in it. You have to form a strategy and utilize your time and effort into developing the traits and skill sets that your particular plan will need. You don't have tact? So what? I know a guy who completely lacks it and has tons of friends and get plenty of attention from the opposite sex. He just redirected his effort else where. I also know people that have had similar results completely different approaches. If you are having problems, then you either don't care or can't adapt.
First, cover the basics. Hygiene & basic manners. Get that right and you will be in the top 50% of the competition. If needed get professional help. Salon instead of great clips? Laser hair removal? Spa treatments? Do what it takes to get caught up. Read a book, take a class, or watch a make over show or two if you have to.
Second, get in reasonable shape. Depending on how far you run with it, you can put yourself leaps and bounds ahead of the competition. It just takes time. If it took money, everyone would have it. Go to the closest gym and get a personal trainer. Do whatever they tell you to and stick with it for at least 6 months to a year.
Third, appearance. Looks matter and you have to dress well. Just pic a style and go to the stores that cater to that style and wear whatever the manikins are wearing. Now do it consistently. Its that easy.
If you are half way successful at these three steps you should be ahead of at least 75% of the competition. You can of course keep adding to your social appeal through other talents. Got a little tact? Great, but if not, do something interesting that people can relate to. Preferably, non technical, non science, non school sponsored. Examples - rock climbing, music, art, motorcycles, traveling, skateboarding, gardening, camping, wine, scuba diving, photography, acting, or anything that when you talk about it, people think it sounds fun and interesting. Just pick something.
Do these things and people will come to you. Its that easy if you actually do it but it is a competition and there are always going to be people ahead of you and behind you. You just have to fight for your place. And remember, you have to adapt to the world. It won't do the same for you.
Also, there is a great segment in the movie American Psycho about fitting in.