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Visitors To US Now Required To Register Online
mytrip sends a reminder that starting today, visitors to the US from 35 visa-waiver countries will be required to register online with the Department of Homeland Security in advance. The DHS is asking people to go online for the ESTA program 72 hours before traveling, but they can register any amount of time ahead. Approval, once granted, is good for 2 years. DHS says that most applications are approved in 4 seconds. If an application is rejected, the traveler will have to go to a US embassy and get a visa. CNet reports that information from applications will be retained for 12 years, and eventually up to 75 years.
Yeah, so much for "your huddled masses" :(
Additionally, watch Americans be completely surprised when these countries reciprocate the generosity.
meh
As a potential Johnny foreigner, I will spend my hard won Euros somewhere else.
As a potential Johnny foreigner, I will spend my hard won Euros somewhere else.
If you are going to be deterred from coming to the US over the requirement that you register online and cough up some fingerprints I suppose you really didn't care that much about coming in the first place anyway, did you?
I think this program is security theater more than anything else but our entry/exit requirements still aren't that onerous compared to other countries I can think of. In the end you'll have to weigh them against your reason for coming here. I'm in love with Italy and Italian culture -- I'd cough up my prints if that was the requirement to go there. New York State already has them anyway.....
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
..especially as I find the American people on the whole some of the most freindly welcoming and interesting people to visit. Sadly however I simply cannot stomach the attitudes and actions of their Govt. I made up my mind never to visit again after a 5 hour wait in Dulles to get through immigration, and was greeted by the most pig ignorant downright hostile group of people I've ever met at the DHS/TSA desk or whatever. You want my fingerprints, you want my details, sorry. Convict me of a crime first. Wanting to visit and spend my dollars in your country is not a crime I'm afraid - I'll go visit Canada instead.
My wife and I were looking at holidaying in the US for the first time in 5 or so years. We'd previously decided not to based on the Presedent, now we probably won't because of the queues at the entry barrier.
The requirements may not be onerous compared to other countries, but that doesn't mean they aren't too onerous to attract people.
"I think this program is security theater more than anything else but our entry/exit requirements still aren't that onerous compared to other countries I can think of."
Care to provide more details, or was that pure rhetoric?
I mean I don't even get a shopping card from our local supermarket because I don't think it's necessary for them to have my personal information...
So? Lie on the supermarket form. Or pick a name & address out of the phone book.
It's more fun to pollute their marketing database with incorrect data.
Afaik, no state on this planet has my fingerprints yet, and I do not plan on handing them over any time soon. If that means not to travel to foreign countries where I would love to go to, so be it. I'll watch documentaries instead.
I have my principles, and a change of law will not change them!
Meme of the day: I browse "Disable Sigs: Checked". So should you.
If you are going to be deterred from coming to the US over the requirement that you register online and cough up some fingerprints I suppose you really didn't care that much about coming in the first place anyway, did you?
This is a fallacy. If he cares about not handing over his fingerprints to foreign Governments, that doesn't imply he doesn't care about going to the country. On the contrary, if he didn't care about going, why would he care about the requirements?
but our entry/exit requirements still aren't that onerous compared to other countries I can think of.
Ah, it's the "But there are worse countries!" argument. Well sure there are worse countries - not exactly a ringing endorsement. Chances are the OP doesn't go there, either.
The one true problem with this is that it is basically a one-sided reintroduction of a visa-requirement. The visa-waiver countries are in bilateral agreements not to require visas from each other's people for short visits. Since the new requirement isn't just an "at the time of entry" border security procedure, but instead requires the visitor to get a permission to enter the country at least 3 days prior to the visit, it is essentially a form of visa-requirement.
When I started college 3 years ago I was actually planning on spending a year in the US just to see what the standards and discussions are like and to see whose history I'm studying here. Since then, each year, the American governments makes one shit move after another and my interest in actually visiting this country dwindles with every one. I'm not having my fingerprints be stored for almost two decades in your "potential foreign sleeper terrorist" list and I'm not going through the silliest questions ever invented -again- (the actually DO have that "Did you come here to kill the president" question, I had to answer that when I was 14).
... locked away in his castle on the hilltop shooting at the mailman scared for his life. Congrats America, if that's what your freedom looks like ... no wonder "they" hate it. I do too. The USA used to be a symbol for immgration, diversity and -hell- freedom. Now it's become a symbol of lies, deception, bigotry, intolerance and paranoia. It makes me sad actually.
One more time the bigotry triumphs. Leader of the world, biggest and strongest army
When I came to this country in the early 1970s it was required that we get visa's and passports, present them at the U.S. border, fill out extensive forms documenting our stay etc.
Sure - but saying that the political clock's been turned back 30-40 years isn't exactly something to be thrilled about. That's an immense step backwards. I'd like to think we'd move towards a society with easier movement in time, especially given that there is far more intercontinental communication between people (both business, and personal) than decades ago.
I've visited the US several times for a month at a time. This was both pre- and post-"9/11". However I stopped going once the draconian identification measures got introduced at the border.
Now you might be a member of the crowd that goes "If you're innocent then you've got nothing to hide" but I'm more of a guy in the "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" crowd.
Now you might be a member of the crowd that goes "If you're innocent then you've got nothing to hide" but I'm more of a guy in the "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" crowd.
I'm not a member of the former crowd. I'm actually a member of the latter crowd. Dive into my posting history if you care to do so.
I also recognize that every government on this planet exercises sovereignty over their borders and that said governments have a legitimate interest in preventing known bad actors from entering their country. It has nothing to do with "if you are innocent you have nothing to hide". Given the ease with which one can obtain falsified identification documents are you really that surprised that they've expanded the entry/exit process into biometrics?
Canada will deny you entry if you've been convicted of drug possession or DWI -- even if said conviction was a misdemeanor/civil affair if your home country. Why don't I see anybody complaining about that?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
You may think it's security theater, but remember that the US has said that it will share the data with various agencies.
I wouldn't be surprised if the UK governement certainly takes a look at all this information and uses it to populate our police databases to subvert the population.
They are taking us down the road of national ID by any means possible.
Our DNA database contains thousands of people who have never been criminally convicted. It even has the data of people who have volunteered their DNA to exclude them from murder enquiries.
They were never suspects!! The fishing expedition was to find people unwilling to give their DNA and then concentrate policing on why.
Want privacy? Expect to be investigated then.
There are going to be false positives. Someone is going to get screwed out of all of this.
What really appauls me if that the UK and I think most of the other 35 countries are not giving the Americans a taste of their own medicine.
We should be stopping y'all at our borders, subjecting you to a search of your luggage, kidnapping your laptop and fingerprinting y'all.
I'm sure many Americans would be up in arms and calling XYZ from your vaunted constitution.
I've travelled to old Soviet countires and the Mid East. No one is this demanding.
USSR called, they want your papers please.
I can travel around the entirety of Europe without needing anything like this, just show ID. Nothing recorded, nothing logged, no database of my movements, nothing. Admittedly I am a dual national like all EU members are but the benefits to travel, employment opportunity, tourism etc are immense. To deliberatly restrict such momement does seem somewhat backwards that's all.
I have to agree with another poster that I'm not surprised at the amount of anti-America bashing this generated. However, those of you who live outside the USA and are not American citizens should probably consider the following.
1. Most Americans never travel outside of North America and have no desire to do so.
2. The US government regards everybody except Canadians as potential illegal immigrants. Yes, even you EU guys and gals. Trust me when I tell you that while there are certainly American businesses that do want your money, my government really doesn't care if nobody comes over to visit.
3. Probably less than 1% of Americans know the visa requirements for foreigners to come here. Almost everybody I've talked to in the USA had no idea how difficult to impossible it is for citizens of non-Visa Waiver countries to get visas to come here. Almost all Americans think that Mexicans and others need only apply for visas to come here legally and they are simply too lazy to do so. I've seen shocked expressions on the faces of many people when they found out how difficult it truly can be to even visit here as a tourist. I've known of cases of legal immigrants who were unable to get tourist visas for family members to come here to visit.
So if you non-USA people expect us to "fix" our broken system, well, good luck with that because the truth is that almost nobody knows how it really works and almost nobody cares if it discourages you from coming here. That is reality. If you don't want to fill out an online form to come neither my government nor the vast majority of my fellow citizens care if you don't come because you don't like the rules. If you think this is some sort of meaningful protest, you are mistaken.
Our DNA database contains thousands of people who have never been criminally convicted
Then vote the fucking assholes in the Surveillance^WLabour Party out of office. In my home state the police have to destroy your fingerprints/DNA if you are arrested for a crime and later cleared (via dismissal or acquittal) of having committed that crime. I'm growing weary of hearing Britons whine about your surveillance soceity while you keep electing the same assholes who are busy setting it up. Contrast this to the outage in the US over the Real-ID scheme. We've actually had quite a few states come out and say they won't take part in it. Where's that spirit in the mother country?
I find it ironic that your unelected upper house is the voice of sanity in the UK. Perhaps you made a mistake when you stripped them of all their power?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
So getting past Saint Peter is easier than getting into the US...
Exactly. All you have to do is have your sins forgiven, and you can get into Heaven. As for getting into the States, even if you've done your jail time for your crime, you can still be barred.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
I also recognize that every government on this planet exercises sovereignty over their borders and that said governments have a legitimate interest in preventing known bad actors from entering their country. It has nothing to do with "if you are innocent you have nothing to hide". Given the ease with which one can obtain falsified identification documents are you really that surprised that they've expanded the entry/exit process into biometrics?
What you're missing, is this harassment only applies to legal entries. The borders remain utterly wide open for illegals. Regulations like this are only there to hassle middle class people or fools who still believe in the rule of law in the USA. The method of BSing the populous is to claim it'll solve terrorism or some other BS. So, if you don't want the "legal" hassle, fly into mexico or canada and simply walk across like everyone else. That plays into the other Orwellian theme of modern america, which is to make it impossible for any individual to not be a criminal, thus making oppression of anyone at any time "OK".
Think of why the roman empire fell. In summary, it was because for too many people it was easier to live without the empire, than with it. This is just another government growth that we are obviously better off without, than with. And so goes the empire. That's why this individual failure of the american empire is important, even when individuals claim they will not be affected by it.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Let's lock the Department of Homeland FUD out and let the tourists in.
I'm all for abolishing the Department of Homeland Security. I fail to see how creating one mega-bureaucracy makes us any safer.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Where's that spirit in the mother country?
I honestly think of the U.K. as a former democracy. The forms are there, but they don't actually seem to mean anything and the state does whatever it wants. (Oh, there are protest marches, but they seem to be as irrelevant as Garry Kasparov protesting outside the Kremlin.)
We are about to find out whether that is also true in the USA.
Instead of filling in an "I95" on the plane one has to spend a few seconds giving the same details on line once and it lasts a couple of years.... What's the big deal to this? It actually saves time if you visit more than once in 2 years. Sometimes the planes run out of paper I95s and create more inconvenience. A while ago I visited Australia and had to apply for a paper visa, in my passport, via one of their embassies. If I had been given the choice of doing it all online I would have jumped at the convenience. Move along people. Borders and immigration stuff exists worldwide. What the US does today the EU will do tomorrow and vice versa. That's the world we live in.
"I'm growing weary of hearing Britons whine about your surveillance soceity while you keep electing the same assholes who are busy setting it up."
78% of Britons did not vote for Labour in the last election. More than three quarters of Britons did not want them, but they got them anyway.
If you understood that minor little fact, and that the Tory party got more votes than Labour in England but lost to Labour nation-wide because of Scottish Labour voters, and that the current Prime Minister was not elected to that role but merely placed there by his party, then you might understand why so many Britons -- particularly the English majority, who are now the only ones who don't have their own Parliament -- are a bit upset with their government.
The assumption that all foreigners are (potential) terrorists is a slap in the face of hospitality.
And it totally disregards the fact that there are quite some criminals among USA residents.
And then consider that the USA owns a prison where you can be held without any trial or human rights, and that the USA is vetoing all UN resolutions against Israel that would lead to peace in the middle east...
I said it before, americans are mostly nice people, but their government are still living in the cold war times. Luckily there are still a lot of other really nice countries that welcome my tourist euros.
"but our entry/exit requirements still aren't that onerous compared to other countries I can think of"
My (ex) mother in law, an Aussie girl through and through, traveled across Europe with a couple of girlfriends as a twenty year old in 1973. Part of the trip was traveling through Soviet Russia and various parts of the Eastern Bloc. They searched her bag at each border, required to a see a passport, asked some questions, granted temporary visas and that was that. Having her bags opened and searched by a stranger openly wielding an automatic rifle was seen as quite disgustingly 'totalitarian' at the time.
The US is far more locked down to foreigners than the menacing and "evil" totalitarian state of Soviet Russia was in 1973.
Accepting it and making excuses ensures that it will continue on its path to the inevitable end.
Fifteen years ago massive government fingerprint databases were purely the domain of ranting conspiracy nuts...oops.
Ten years ago the idea that everyone entering the country would be fingerprinted was absolutely laughable...oops.
And yet here we are. So whats next on the list to be excused away?
This rubbish 'security theatre' (when did totalitarianism get such a cute name?) is something that's sweeping across the western world and it needs to stop. It really does, because we (average, reasonably people) are losing ground rapidly and very soon if it continues at this rate a lot more of this bullshit is going to start having an negative effect on the average man on the street. Once that happens there's no going back.
>Which means bringing a passport. No. I've been from Spain to Italy by road with nothing more than a driving licence, and that involved a trip into Switzerland as well >>Nothing recorded, nothing logged, no database of my movements, nothing. >You think? Yes. Show me where I am recorded then when I walk by foot across the French/German border, through the Ardennes forest, along a mountain ridge road into Italy - there simply is none. >>Admittedly I am a dual national like all EU members are >Bzzz, wrong. Thanks for playing, try again. Try reading the Maastrict Treaty then - all nationals are alos nationals of the EU as a soverign entity. but the benefits to travel, employment opportunity, tourism etc are immense. To deliberatly restrict such momement does seem somewhat backwards that's all. >Hence why EU wants to impose US-like border arrangements with fingerprint sampling etc. Citation? Within EU? Schengen? >Of course, USA has it better here, they don't need a passport to travel to a different state. Last I heard a state was not a country, despite the protesttions of some of them.
I have no problem with making inmates work or charging them for their living expenses. I have a problem with the idea that anyone should make a profit on it, EVER. I don't mind people being paid wages, that's not what I'm talking about. Prisons should be an investment in our future, not an investment for a financial return.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
That's assuming they should be in jail in the first place, which is clearly not the case of the 500M prisoners on drug related charges.
Does that include the manufacturers, importers, exporters, pushers, etc? Or is that just the end users?
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
"Yeah, if your caught on a battlefield while engaged in hostilities against US forces. Do you have a single citation for that happening to somebody at the border or are you just blowing smoke?"
Lol "battlefield", is that what they tell you?
"Maher Arar, a Syrian-born dual Syrian and Canadian citizen, was detained at Kennedy International Airport on 26 September 2002, by US Immigration and Naturalization Service officials. He was heading home to Canada after a family holiday in Tunisia. After almost two weeks, enduring hours of interrogation chained, he was sent, shackled and bound, in a private jet to Jordan and then Syria, instead of being extradited to Canada. There, he was interrogated and tortured by Syrian intelligence. Maher Arar was eventually released a year later."
On 17 February 2003, Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr (aka "Abu Omar") was kidnapped by the CIA in Milan (Italy),[40] and deported to Egypt. His case has been qualified by Swiss senator Dick Marty to be a "perfect example of extraordinary rendition".[29]
"In October 2001, Mamdouh Habib, who lives in Australia and has both Australian and Egyptian nationality (having been born in Egypt), was detained in Pakistan"
Many many more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Example_cases
Yes, "battlefield", that's it.
Perhaps you should just admit that you're happy jumping on the 'we-hate-America' bandwagon for no other reason than it's the more popular choice at the moment. I mean why shy away from the mob? I know it's hard to vilify the population now that they very vocally ousted Bush and his ideals and I know that you have to find another reason to hate them, but entry requirements, come on! You have to be smarter than that.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
that the current Prime Minister was not elected to that role but merely placed there by his party
Sorry, but *what*?!?!?
How - SPECIFICALLY - did the party "place" him there? Perhaps some sort of vote? If the party voted him to be their leader, how exactly was he not elected to that role?
If you're trying to claim that the general voters didn't vote for him, the same can be said of *every* PM. The people elect their MPs, and the MPs select the Prime Minister.
Your post displays an astonishing lack of understanding of how a parliamentary system works.
Personally I don't see why any non-violent criminal has to spend a significant amount of time in the slammer, though I have heard some convincing arguments that it does work for white collar crime.
My opinion is that the side-effects of the "war on drugs" are far worse than the effects of drug addiction. Turf wars and gang violence affect people who want nothing to do with drugs, whereas legalized drugs would primarily hurt users and those closest to the users.
Further, I'd argue that the taxes collected on legalized drugs could be fed back into treatment centers and anti-drug propaganda/education.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
So? Lie on the supermarket form. Or pick a name & address out of the phone book.
It's more fun to pollute their marketing database with incorrect data.
In this case there isn't that much the supermarket can do to to. Whereas a government can toss you in jail.
500 million? We don't even have a population of 500 million.
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
"I find it ironic that your unelected upper house is the voice of sanity in the UK. Perhaps you made a mistake when you stripped them of all their power?"
No mistake there at all buddy. People came to their right senses and realised that being ruled by unelected bodies was not a good idea (we're still working on the monarchy). Having a hereditary, unelected body of folk making the laws might seem a really cute idea from 3000 miles away but it's a bit archaic in this day and age. Somebody gets to make laws and judge you because one of their ancestors 500 years ago did something the king liked (or possibly lent him some money or similar)? No thanks. Or was that a plea from you to have the USA taken under the wing of the British Monarchy and its Parliament again? ;-)
Nobody hates the US, you guys over there just love to feel victims. YOu send your army all around the place, kill thousands of people everywhere (you don't ever bother to account for them) and don't expect that some resentment will be felt elsewhere.
Honestly, get real.
What many people are saying is that the system does not show a friendly attitude, combine that with the horrendous reception you have when arriving to US airports (I have seen things that really make me puke) and you have a recipe for disenfranchisement.
I used to visit the US around once or twice a year, but every time it became more trying, nowadays you are treated like a potential criminal, with a record of your entries, your laptop can be confiscated without any reason and without you having any possibility of redress and if you are in the unfortunate position of being mistaken as a terrorist (it has happened) then all the bets are off.
Unless all this changes people like me, with a genuine interest to learn more about the US, will not visit your country.
If you class the above as hate is more your problem than anybody else's.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Try around 45 federal agencies that conduct criminal investigations, doesn't really classify as mega-bureaucracy. I'd almost say we should combine these together and cut down on some waste.
DHS
USCG
CBP
USBP
ICE
FAMS
FPS
USSS
TSA
ATF
DEA
FBI
BOP
USMS
DSS (Part of the Bureau of Diplomatic Security)
IRS
TIGTA
USMP
United States Treasury Police
DCIS
USPPD
Army CID
US Army Miliary Police Corp
Air Force OSI
Air Force Security Forces
NCIS
ONI Police
CGIS
Marine Corps Provost Marshal's Office
OIG
FDA
USDA
USDI
National Parks Service
Federal Reserve Police
Library of Congress Police
National Oceanic and Atmosphereic Administration Fisheries Office for Law Enforcement
NSA
Smithsonian National Zoological Park Police
USCP
USPIS
United States Supreme Court Police
Veteren Affairs Police
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
In ALL serioussness, if this trivial bit of beauracracy GENUINELY causes you to stay away, we're glad about it.
You, my fellow American, can fuck right off.
I have many friends that live internationally, and several family members. Eight years ago, was common to get three or four visits a year. Within four years, it became one a year (they came for my wedding). Since then nothing, because of crap like this.
You can speak for yourself, but don't you even begin to think you can speak for all of us.
Say bad words about my book, in cold oatmeal, or I shall sue!