HP Releases New Netbook GUI For Ubuntu

dan of the north writes to tell us that a new custom version of Ubuntu aimed at netbooks and based on 8.04 Hardy Heron has been released by HP. Targeted to the HP Mini 1000 Mi, the netbook customization comes complete with OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, Sunbird, Pidgin, and a few others. "Overall, HP has created one of the best thought out Linux interfaces for netbooks. The software is designed so that users who have never used Linux should have no trouble performing basic tasks. But experienced Linux users can always fire up a terminal window by hitting Alt+F2 and entering 'gnome-terminal.'"

Comments

FOSS At Its Best

[phantomcircuit]

HP has taken a solid product improved it and is using it to improve the value of it's own product.

Everybody involved benefits (except microsoft...).

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Anonymous Coward]

I would. Taking a free resource and creating a GUI to make what your customers want easier to do and more easier to understand is far from a bad thing. It's an improvement to get more attention and more computers on linux.

This would be perfect for older generations who do not understand the difference in computers and really only understand what they can do with the software that boots up and opens in front of them. Having something like this for an older parent might be all they need and might make their computer use more efficient. For those of us like me... I still want to be able to do everything and never have it change... most of "us" realize we're a bit too picky at times.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Anonymous Coward]

They've been making improvements in lots of products including Microsofts. Adding Apple/Time Machine support in their Home Server based on XP Server was genius.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Anonymous Coward]

The special thing about this high tech gadget is "hitting Alt+F2 and entering 'gnome-terminal."

In my notebook book, the terminal is launched by a selecting it in the menu in the file browser. I definitely need to replace mine.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[icebike]

Oh, stop with this older generation stuff...

Those days are past. There are precious few parents old enough such that they have not gleaned any experience with computers by now. Those that haven't are well into their 80s and have more than likely lost interest in anything but pictures of grand kids.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Anonymous Coward]

Please. That's a terribly narrow-minded viewpoint. Sure, many people older than, say, 50 can and do use computers. However, they still intimidate the heck out of many, if not most, of that age group -- even those that do use them regularly. Making it easier is always good (provided that doing so doesn't sacrifice functionality for those who do understand it).

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Anonymous Coward]

Older generations always come up during these netbook discussions. I have to point out that most of the older people I know *want* a desktop with a large screen, and a giant keyboard with big easy to hit keys. There's no way my parents could read the tiny text on my Eee, let alone hit the tiny keys.

Netbooks get bought up by young geeks who know they only need web and e-mail. An easy-to-use specialized linux interface would do better on the basic desktop at Best Buy.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Hordeking]

Oh, stop with this older generation stuff...

Those days are past. There are precious few parents old enough such that they have not gleaned any experience with computers by now. Those that haven't are well into their 80s and have more than likely lost interest in anything but pictures of grand kids.

Well, maybe not grandparents, but people who don't want to learn, or maybe aren't tech inclined. My grandfather is somewhat decent with computers, but my parents can barely click a mouse (even when told to, they ask "what?" and click slowly). I've run into lots of 20-somethings who can barely do anything besides open the default word processor (my girlfriend comes to mind). It's not an age thing.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[rolfwind]

I heard that they just used Elisa Media center....

http://elisa.fluendo.com/

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[CannonballHead]

Start hanging out with older people. I know a ton of people under 70, under 60, and even under 50 that don't have that much experience with computers and don't have that much time OR desire to hang out with them long enough to get it. They just want to use it and reap the benefits. Sorta like we do with cell phones.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Toonol]

It's a terribly narrow-minded viewpoint to assume much in either direction. For instance, in all the discussions we have had lately over the digital TV switchover, several people always complain about the old folk who aren't prepared for the conversion.

Now, that's not really true, and it has been pointed out in those threads before. Surveys have been done, and "Seasoned Citizens" are as prepared for the conversion as the general populace. The segments that are unprepared are the poor, minority, and immigrant... those without cable, without a computer, sometimes with poor literacy. Not the senior citizens.

But the assumptions and blame keep on being pitched.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[thetoadwarrior]

I wish you were right but the majority of the people working at my employer's company would say you are dead wrong.

What's worse is how many younger people are clueless about computers too because it's uncool and nerdy to use a computer for something other than MySpace.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[The Great Pretender]

My hat is off to HP. I never really bothered with them, but recently I noticed that they seem to be really making every effort to understand the importance of the 'touch-n-feel'. Even if it's not perfect, they seem to be going in the right direction and hopefully others will follow

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Jurily]

Having something like this for an older parent might be all they need and might make their computer use more efficient. For those of us like me... I still want to be able to do everything and never have it change... most of "us" realize we're a bit too picky at times.

The two things I need is a decent taskbar and Alt+F2 for "Run...". This one has it, so it's perfect.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[icebike]

> Start hanging out with older people.

I do this every day, you presumptuous whippersnapper!

Post your cell phone number and as soon as I find my teeth and my iPhone I'll call you up and give you a piece of my mind. As soon as I remember where I put it.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[icebike]

Yes, lets DO dumb it down for those lease interested.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Jurily]

and immigrant... those without cable, without a computer, sometimes with poor literacy. Not the senior citizens.

So you say Arnold can't afford a decent TV?

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[drsmithy]

HP has taken a solid product improved it and is using it to improve the value of it's own product.

How much will HP be benefitting if every other Netbook manufacturer takes their work and uses it, without having to wear any of the costs involved in making it ?

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[steve263]

Just before Christmas my mother (she is in her 80's) told me she was interested getting a laptop, and asked for my help in picking one out. She has NEVER used a computer before. The last piece of electronics that she used besides the television was an IBM Selectric typewriter. My son volunteered an old Acer laptop he had that needed an OS loaded. I loaded Ubuntu 8.04 on it, set up a connection on the DSL that my father uses and gave her 1 afternoon of instruction on the laptop. My wife gave her 3 hours of additional instruction and she is now happily looking up her family ancestry on the internet. She's using Pidgin to communicate with more computer-literate family members, emailing her friends and surfing the 'net. Yes, she's having a little trouble using the touchpad, and asks for assistance now and then, but overall I think she's having a good time enjoying the functions and features that the computer has to offer. Oh, and she is interested in much more than just pictures of her grand kids!

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Blakey Rat]

Considering how craptacular HP software is on Windows, I can only imagine how shitastic an entire UI built by them is.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[quarterbuck]

Or a whole lot of people who don't use speak English. A lot of people in China,India and Middle East (and most of the east) have difficulty using computers because it involves learning both a new language and a new tool. The biggest problem is the script, which is very different from the regional ones and hence is unfamiliar.
I have seen some of the localized computers, but even then not everything on the screen is fully localized - leading to confusion. Add to that the rarity of using regional keyboards and learning computers becomes a really difficult job
A task based interface, like what HP is doing, is very useful in such situations. Most people can understand the icons and once the program starts running, most people can figure out what to do.

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL pointing out the likely truth of the matter makes one a troll eh? How sad it is that that passes for "moderation".

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[JustPutt2]

IBM?

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[JustPutt2]

Yes,,, WE are 'picky' at times

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Fri13]

LoL... Thats why Open Source software is developed that third parties can take the code and improve it how they need (and idea is that they share it back).

Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, E-17 and multiple windowmanagers there, does not give best UI for every situation. I hope that Microsoft would understand this and actually build a desktop that can be replaced by normal user, without nerds helping. Just clickin "Install this UI" button and logout and back and you would have different UI.

 

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Thumper_SVX]

I would take issue with your viewpoint, here. Your viewpoint is in fact only valid for people who live in Western cities (meaning Western world)... and more specifically you're probably only really thinking about the US and/or Northern Europe. In fact, I'd go so far as to say you may be focusing more on large coastal cities.

I live in Missouri... there are large swaths of countryside here... the cities make up only a small portion of this state; we have two big ones and that's it. You get out of those cities and into the country and it's like a different world. I have dealt with many of these people as I get out into the wilds of Missouri often... and I'd say less than 10% of them have a computer... and that's not just older people, people younger than me don't necessarily have them, either. Part of the reason is that they're viewed as complex and in some cases completely pointless. They live a different life from us "city folk".

If you're going to comment on the state of society, you need to widen your horizons a bit. The US alone has an incredibly diverse range of people with different lifestyles and ideas of what's "right" and "cool". The people I've referred to are just one example, and they're not "rednecks" and "hicks"... they're mostly good, decent people who just find no use for a computer or are just inexperienced enough with modern technology that they just don't understand our interface paradigms that we hold so dear.

I took a look at this article... and you know what? I think this is a computer that COULD get the attention of people like this because it IS so simple. Despite Apple's pretense to simplicity, this is better (and I'm typing this on a Mac BTW). Now, as for WHY they should have a computer... well, that's a different matter entirely.

Kudos to HP... I think I'm going to get one of these as a show of support for a company willing to make some waves and get Linux "out of the lab".

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup. It's a stupidity thing. And gnome-terminal? Why? It's so much faster to type "konsole".

Re:FOSS At Its Best

[Anonymous Coward]

and even faster to type "xterm"

Not in the UK

[flyingfsck]

The Register reports that this version will not be available in the UK. The Limeys have to run Billyware only.

Re:Not in the UK

[dk90406]

So it is not GNU code? If it were, anybody would be able to download, compile and install it.

Re:Not in the UK

[bahstid]

yeah, strangely just before this I was reading that the year-old HP mini 2133 is the only HP laptop in the UK which uses Linux ...at least you'll be able to get one that looks like a handbag though...

Re:Not in the UK

[dk90406]

I meant: So it is not GPL?

Re:Not in the UK

[Anonymous Cowbell]

we're still bitter about that whole taxation without representation thing

Re:Not in the UK

[Lord Jester]

Just not as a pre-installed option.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/02/06/hp_drops_mini_1000_uk/

Re:Not in the UK

[MarkRose]

The Limeys have to run Billyware only.

You mean I'll have to have a goat on my computer? But I prefer sheep!

Re:Not in the UK

[0prime]

Anyone may download, compile, and install it, but not everyone can download, compile, and install it. Mainly due to the "compile" part.

Re:Not in the UK

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently you can install the UI onto a regular Ubuntu install, and there's a download of the complete (w/Ubuntu) HP setup I believe, but that's not the parent's point.

The point is, in the UK, if you want one of these HP units with Ubuntu, you have to buy a Windows license to do it.

Re:Not in the UK

[hansamurai]

Add the HP repos and grab the glassy-bleu-theme.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1021351

Re:Not in the UK

[Zaiff Urgulbunger]

If I were to buy the Windows version and then attempt to get the refund, how much would I get back? I'm asking not 'cos I'm likely to do this, but I'm interested given the rumour that MS are basically giving XP away right now rather than have Linux get a foot-hold.... so I'm guessing the refund must be pretty small change also?

Re:Not in the UK

[TeraByte911]

That's what you get for living in Wales.

Re:Not in the UK

[Anonymous Coward]

Somebody mod this guy up. Thanks.

Re:Not in the UK

[Anonymous Coward]

The Limeys have to run Billyware only.

You mean I'll have to have a goat on my computer? But I prefer sheep!

That's illegal in New Zealand.

Re:Not in the UK

[mjwx]

You mean I'll have to have a goat on my computer? But I prefer sheep!

So... You admit to being Welsh do ya.

netbook

[flynt]

I almost got the HP Mini 1000 but decided on a different netbook due to the proprietary VGA cable needed to connect the HP to a larger screen. I went with the Samsung NC10 instead, and I am not disappointed in the least. The first thing I did was to install Ubuntu on the Samsung, and it works just fine for the most part (the function keys to control brightness being the only thing I had to work around). I got a 2GB stick of RAM for it, and honestly don't find it underpowered in the least. I think it's a great machine to bring on the road to get some coding done; I don't think it's limited to simply web browsing and email.

Re:netbook

[weddellharbor]

Agreed - I did the same thing (except for the 2GB ram) and it's absolutely fine. The brightness key workaround is a snap (just adjust brightness at the boot screen), and any other problems were readily fixable. Netbooks seem to be ideal platforms for linux - let's hope this catches on.

Re:netbook

[ch0ad]

i have the same netbook, and it's currently my only operational machine... so i'd be very appreciative if you could tell me how to get the touchpad to behave, and also how to stop the screen tearing (it's the same with and without compiz).

great little machine tho! perfect for taking notes at lectures.

Re:netbook

[ichthus]

I'm a happy NC10 owner too, and my experience with running Fedora 10 on it sounds about the same as yours with Ubuntu. The FN brightness keys don't work, and plugging in headphones doesn't turn the speakers off. Other'n that, everything works great out the of box, including compiz. Nice, little netbook.

Re:netbook

[pdabbadabba]

Just to be a dick: I just bought an HP Mini 1000 with Windows (cheaper retail with Windows than without it online), installed Ubuntu, and *everything* (including all the FN Keys, Compiz, etc.) that I've tried has worked out of the box.

Re:netbook

[ichthus]

Nah, that's cool. I knew before I bought it that there would be some minor compat. issues. I chose the Samsung because of the keyboard and the 8-hour battery life (seems more like 6 hours when running Linux, though.)

Re:netbook

[pdabbadabba]

Yeah. Still waiting for the 6-cell battery from HP :(

Glad to hear the Samsung is working out.

Re:netbook

[Knuckles]

If you use Gnome, you probably just have to open the volume control panel and enable the "headphone sensing" switch.

I set up an nc10 with Ubuntu Netbook Remix for a good friend and it's a great little machine, indeed. The battery life is amazing (with the new battery I got 6 hours of battery out of it while *constantly working on it* and having Wifi running)

The screen rotation feature in Gnome is fantastic. I set up a keyboard shortcut to switch the screen to portrait orientation. Since the coordinate system is not rotated for an external mouse, you can still use it as usual. In portrait mode you can comfortably read 12pt font on letter format full-page.

To make portrait mode really usable and part of everyday use of the netbook I recommend Samsung's UM10 mouse or similar. The UM10 has a nifty scroll wheel that works great, though the UM10's form-factor makes it pretty shitty as a mouse pointer. But the important thing is that it is tiny and uses USB, so that you can always have it attached and ready to use.

The page-up/down buttons need some fiddling to make them work in X, though, and I did not yet get around to that. There are tutorials for setting up multi-button mice on the web.

Re:netbook

[ichthus]

Thanks for the tip. I'll check for that setting in the volume control panel.

Re:netbook

[camperdave]

...and plugging in headphones doesn't turn the speakers off.

I've never understood this point. Headphone jacks have had speaker disable hardware in them since, like what, WWII? Why do laptop manufacturers bypass it?

Re:netbook

[ichthus]

Yeah, I dunno. It seems to be a new trend, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. My first guess would be that it was a feature originally intended for cell phones -- my Moto SLVR allows you to plug headphones into the USB data/charging port. You wouldn't want the speaker to turn off when charging or using a data connection, but the speaker should be turned off when the impedance of headphones is detected. Another new trend (which I saw on a friend's Dell notebook) is to disable the analog loopback in the sound card -- presumably so you can't record the SC's output (ie. the "analog hole.")

Re:netbook

[willy_me]

Better to do it in software. This way different settings can be used for internal / external audio devices. Volume, balance, equalizer, etc. can all be adjusted for your external device and you don't have re-adjust them every time you want to switch over to your internal speakers. Plug in the audio cable and the software makes all the changes for you.

You need the ability to independently turn on / off the different audio devices in a modern computer. We are no longer limited to a simple internal speaker + external 1/8" audio jack configuration. The old mechanical 1/8" jack + switch is not an option. Now we have multiple channels, optical cables, USB + 1394 devices.. Audio is not simple anymore.

Re:netbook

[digitalchinky]

It has already caught on, Linux is old news to the masses in Asia. When your average domestic house maid blurts out a question about whether it's running Linux or XP, and your typical oriental middle class joe or jane prefers the eye bling much better than windows XP offerings, then the "year of linux on the netbook" was probably somewhere between 2007/2008.

It's also about $100 USD cheaper than any of the MS offerings, and more often than not the Linux based stuff has better spec hardware too.

A way to unseat Windows dominance

[bbasgen]

Netbooks can play a huge role in unseating the Windows monopoly. Just as Linux has "snuck in the backdoor" as the leading OS on embedded devices, it is also the most obvious and best answer for netbooks. As we move away from expensive "generalist" computers into the realm of truly commodity hardware, Windows just can't compete. Hopefully wide-scale netbook adoption of Linux can get a big enough base of ordinary users that Linux can grow to adapt to their needs. :)

Re:A way to unseat Windows dominance

[binarylarry]

Oh we'll see about that.

In 15 minutes, I'll be in a meeting with some HP people I know. And I'm going to one thing very clear to them: Keep selling Linux on your Netbooks and I will fucking kill you. I've done it before and I will do it again.

With push overs like these HP fuckers, I won't even need the chair this time.

Yours Truly,
Steve B

Re:A way to unseat Windows dominance

[linhares]

Not only netbooks. Anything below the $400 price point can't afford $30+ if there's a cheaper alternative. Probably some larger laptops (13"?) will use atoms of via nanos and drop the dvd. With more space, they could run cooler and get even cheaper parts. Anything below $250 cannot afford $30+ for windows. All the upcoming ***tops below $250 will run linux, I bet.

Re:A way to unseat Windows dominance

[Etrias]

Dear Stevie,

Remember that shit you pulled over on us with Intel? No? Well I fucking do. I wanna see you cry when this recession drives a bunch of college going young people to love our new little netbooks with a custom Linux on it and find out that they don't need you anymore.

Kisses,
Mark H

We moved all our chairs to the parking lot so when you show up to act like a raving maniac, which you are, you can at least do it outside.

Re:A way to unseat Windows dominance

[shutdown -p now]

... In other news, a new Windows 7 edition has been released by Microsoft for exclusive use by OEMs in their netbook products (a "netbook" is defined as a laptop with retail price below $400). The so-called "Windows 7 Net Home" costs $5, with the more advanced "Net Pro" version going for $10. EULA for the software restricts the ability to install it on non-netbook computers, and the corresponding checks have been added to the Windows activation system.

Re:A way to unseat Windows dominance

[GF678]

Oh come on!

Do you honestly think Microsoft wouldn't license Windows for $20 on netbooks if it ensured their continued dominance? If someone was faced with two identical netbooks, one running Linux and one running Windows and the only difference was $20 extra for Windows, most people would probably buy it instead. They're used to it, time is money, etc.

Sure it will be less profitable to Microsoft, but at least they'll continue their foothold. Microsoft isn't as dumb as people think here. They will not go down without a fight.

Re:A way to unseat Windows dominance

[Risen888]

Sure, dude. Listen, fuck software, let me sell you this gorgeous bridge I've got out in Brooklyn.

If 7 comes even remotely close to Linux's performance on netbooks when it is actually released, I will eat my hat. Leaving aside the ridiculous assertions about what Microsoft would be willing to sell such a thing for.

Re:A way to unseat Windows dominance

[shutdown -p now]

If 7 comes even remotely close to Linux's performance on netbooks when it is actually released

Performance is not the only thing that matters. App compatibility can still be a major bullet point there - some people may not need it and are content with Firefox & OpenOffice, but many do need it, and may well be willing to trade performance for that.

Also, so far Windows consistently did better than Linux on laptops when it comes to Suspend To RAM/HDD, and power saving measures in general. That may be a factor too.

Then of course there's marketing. Objective advantages are one thing, but what's really important is convincing the customer.

Leaving aside the ridiculous assertions about what Microsoft would be willing to sell such a thing for.

Why are they ridiculous? It's pretty obvious that selling N>0 units for $5 is far preferrable from selling 0 units for $100. Especially if all the lost sales go straight to your competitor. MS still has cash to spend for now, and once N grows sufficiently - which is very soon - selling at $5 will be enough to make some profit anyway (what with copying being free and all).

Re:A way to unseat Windows dominance

[dotancohen]

All the upcoming ***tops below $250 will run linux, I bet.

Asstops? You are far ahead of the curve on that one, methinks.

Re:A way to unseat Windows dominance

[Risen888]

Performance is not the only thing that matters.

Okay, but we're not talking about a minute difference in some benchmarks. We're talking about the difference between usable and painful. Yeah it matters. Ask anyone who bought a Vista laptop with under 2Gb RAM.

App compatibility can still be a major bullet point there

This is the most repeated and probably least relevant argument I hear on this subject. First, they're netbooks. I really don't think anyone's running AutoCAD or anything on these things.

Second (it is my new year's resolution to repeat this every time this subject comes up until people shut up about it), it is an amazing but true fact that you cannot put a Playstation game in a Wii. Yet they sell both Playstations and Wiis, and people don't have any trouble grasping the concept, nor do they have any trouble understanding that you can't load Mac software on a Windows machine. In fact, I can't think of a tech product besides Linux that has this absurd expectation thrust upon it. Can't we just let this tired old argument die?

Also, so far Windows consistently did better than Linux on laptops when it comes to Suspend To RAM/HDD, and power saving measures in general.

"Better?" I guess I'm unclear here what you're referring to. Can you elaborate?

Why are they ridiculous? It's pretty obvious that selling N>0 units for $5 is far preferrable from selling 0 units for $100.

Sure, but it's also pretty obvious that that this sort of scheme is exactly the opposite of the way Microsoft has always priced out Windows.

once N grows sufficiently - which is very soon - selling at $5 will be enough to make some profit anyway

I think you're wrong here, or at least overoptimistic. $5 is a loss leader, unless you're planning on making 10 million sales this year. Now, they've done pretty much this exact thing with the Xbox and done pretty well at it so far, but they are nowhere near turning a profit on it yet.

I don't see that happening with Windows, nor (I think this is the bigger issue) do I see them making this sort of concession with OEMs. Microsoft's whole strategy over the last ten or fifteen years can be summed up as "don't let the OEMs forget who the boss is," and they've attempted to keep this strategy up even now that they are demonstrably not the boss anymore. It must have absolutely killed them to have to offer XP again after they said point-blank it wouldn't happen. I just can't buy into your idea, it goes against everything we've seen out of them in the last decade.

Re:A way to unseat Windows dominance

[Anonymous Coward]

... The so-called "Windows 7 Net Home" costs $5, with the more advanced "Net Pro" version going for $10.

Well, I think that MS will not be competitive simply giving his products for free. They don't need some... profit? Charity isn't their business.

Re:A way to unseat Windows dominance

[toddestan]

I'm sure they'd rather give you a copy of Windows rather than have you run Linux. They've got a monopoly to maintain. Some reason why they don't seriously try to stop piracy of their OS by home users.

Pretty cool, actually

[CannonballHead]

Frankly, it makes sense that a computer system company (HP, Dell, etc) would actively pursue releasing a linux distro that works well/specifically designed to work well with their specific hardware, etc. (I presume this is going to include drivers for all of the included hardware in the mini), and is "easy" to use and looks good...

I'm surprised more companies haven't done this, actually.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[Red Flayer]

Frankly, it makes sense that a computer system company (HP, Dell, etc) would actively pursue releasing a linux distro that works well/specifically designed to work well with their specific hardware, etc. (I presume this is going to include drivers for all of the included hardware in the mini), and is "easy" to use and looks good...

S/LINUX/UNIX

What, like Apple?

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[CannonballHead]

Eh... yeah, Unix, too, I guess. I'm not as much of a fan of Unix, having used solaris/hp-ux/aix.

Apple is a bit different in that they have a proprietary OS that they license only for specific hardware (isn't that still the way it is? or no? I could be behind the times here). I'm not a fan of that.

I also just generally dislike the "I'm cool, I have an Apple. I'm artsy. PC users automatically get -5 points for using a PC even if their [music, art, web design] is great." thing, but that's neither here nor there (not sure where it is, I guess) :)

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[Aphoxema]

This is a little shocking, I was just thinking HP needs to fancy up to Ubuntu after I played with a Touchsmart a little while ago.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[Red Flayer]

I was just making the point that the OP shouldn't have been surprised that a company would choose to tweak on OS to run well on the hardware they sell. This is the crux of Apple's computer business model.

Apples are easy to use, and optimised for certain tasks... and this is possible because Apple only has to deal with a very limited set of hardware components and configurations.

HP contributing to a Linux distro in order to optimise for their particular hardware configuration is similar to what Apple did.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[nine-times]

Apple is a bit different in that they have a proprietary OS that they license only for specific hardware (isn't that still the way it is? or no? I could be behind the times here).

Not exactly-- really it depends a bit on what you consider the "OS" to be. The underlying OS is open source, and "free" in the FSF sense. The graphical layer that runs on top is proprietary and only licensed to be installed on Apple hardware. You can take their OS and replace the graphical layer with X11 and Gnome, and the whole thing runs.

Now a lot of people would say this is splitting hairs, saying that since you can't run OSX apps on a "free" system, you can't say the OS in "free". It's a valid objection. However, I still think it's noteworthy that code for the kernel and lots of other stuff is available to developer to look at and copy.

I also just generally dislike the "I'm cool, I have an Apple. I'm artsy. PC users automatically get -5 points for using a PC even if their [music, art, web design] is great."

Me too, I guess, insofar as there are Apple users who act that way. I don't let it stop me from using a Mac when it happens to be the best tool for the job (which sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't). Also, lots of Mac users aren't really like that. A fair amount these days are normal computer geeks who just happen to want a Unix system that is also formally supported by Photoshop (or some similar needs).

But really, we're straying off course a bit here.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[nine-times]

I'm surprised more companies haven't done this, actually.

It's not that surprising when you consider that Microsoft has made a practice or retaliating against OEMs who sell non-MS systems. I don't have good citations here, but I remember reading that Microsoft used to put things in their deals like, "If you advertise or openly sell non-MS desktop systems, we'll raise the cost of your OEM versions of Windows $X per copy." Even if X is a pretty small number, it can add up to be a lot of money for big OEMs.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[onefriedrice]

I also just generally dislike the "I'm cool, I have an Apple. I'm artsy. PC users automatically get -5 points for using a PC even if their [music, art, web design] is great." thing, but that's neither here nor there (not sure where it is, I guess) :)

You can ignore that if you want. I used a Mac clear through the nineties, during the time when it was clearly unpopular to do so. Apple's rise in popularity doesn't directly effect my computing experience.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[ericrost]

Except all their doing is fancying up the interface, the drivers are already there for everything. I installed vanilla Ubuntu Netbook Remix on one of these pre-Xmas and it ran perfectly out of the box:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=997590

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[CannonballHead]

Definitely off course but always fun to mention. ;)

You're right, the underlying "OS" is ... I was using a broader term, however. Just as one would call "Ubuntu" an OS and "Linux" an OS. I prefer not to try to remember the differences between the kernel, device drivers, filesystems, volume managers, window managers, desktop environments... at least not unless I really have to :( :)

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[CannonballHead]

Except HP is not, as far as I can tell from NOT RTA, selling their Ubuntu based Linux distro and allowing people to only use it on HP Minis.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[CannonballHead]

Yeah, I can. I actually prefer Windows still, at this point, though. *shrugs* But I don't do a whole lot of audio/video editing, either. I do think Apple's stuff is overpriced (especially the laptops?), too, but then I think the same thing about Sony and a lot of other ... merchandise where you pay just to have a brand name. At times, I guess it may be warranted (Barracuda or something?), but IMO it's not with Apple. At least not the ones I've used, which admittedly were older. Haven't used much newer Apple stuff.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[nine-times]

Yeah, I think often when people use the term "operating system", they're talking about everything that gets installed by default from a particular vendor-- or something like that. So when you stick an Ubuntu disk in and do a default installation, everything you get is "part of the operating system". Some might even go as far as to say it includes everything that can be installed through the default package servers.

But if you really want to get into it, it can be a little bit more subtle than that. For example, if HP builds on top of Ubuntu but changes some of the packages, is it still Ubuntu? What HP completely rewrote Gnome and X.org, but their Gnome/X.org replacements are GPL and maintain full application compatibility with Ubuntu? Is it still Ubuntu then? Does it change the situation if HP wrote a proprietary replacement for Gnome/X.org, but still maintained application compatibility? Would it still be Ubuntu? Would it still be Linux?

I don't think those questions are all that easy to answer. Whether they could keep the Ubuntu branding would largely be a legal issue of whether Canonical allowed it. If HP tried to replace X.org with something proprietary, whether or not it's still "Linux" (or legal), you'd have a lot of pissed off people.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to me to see, if a lot of OEMs start shipping with Linux, exactly how much customization they do. Realistically, they could just work with a given distribution to make sure their hardware is well-supported, and then install the normal/vanilla install of that distribution, but they could also effectively roll their own distro. It could get interesting (but unfortunately probably won't).

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[linhares]

By the way, HP, WHERE IS THE FUCKING CODE? I'm guessing here you have to release it, or face my fury!

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[Anonymous Coward]

they're != their

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[jaavaaguru]

PC users automatically get -5 points

Do you mean PC users or Windows users? Because Apple's machines are PCs too.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[ericrost]

AC grammar nazi == douche :)

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[slack_prad]

Didn't you get the memo? To avoid confusion, there now the same.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[linhares]

They're goes there creativity right their.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[Anonymous Coward]

Technically they only have to give it to you if you buy the laptop...

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[jhol13]

MSI has told that the return rate of Linux notebooks is too high.
Asus has told they will stop selling Linux line because it is not profitable (enough).

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[Anonymous Coward]

>> Do you mean PC users or Windows users? Because Apple's machines are PCs too.

not according to Apple's own Mac vs PC marketing campaign....

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[Fri13]

They should give them to you if they offer the application for all from web and you download it from their repositories.

They should offer the sources same way as they do the binary itself. From online. If they would only deliver them trough laptop selling, then you need to have the laptop and you get sources free by some way what you do not need to pay too much extra, like CD-ROM on the Mail.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[rbanffy]

Building a distro from scratch is a huge undertaking. The best would be to adopt one or two successful distros and build packages for them that work great in your hardware.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[dotancohen]

Now a lot of people would say this is splitting hairs, saying that since you can't run OSX apps on a "free" system, you can't say the OS in "free". It's a valid objection. However, I still think it's noteworthy that code for the kernel and lots of other stuff is available to developer to look at and copy.

I assume that this kernel could run any OS-X app, including Photoshop? That means that the code is out there, and free, to run any OS-X app, including photoshop? Why can't the good folks at Novell or Canonical incorporate this into their Linux distros and get Photoshop supported _natively_ on those platforms? Or better yet, I'm sure that Greg Kroah-Hartman could do it and get it directly in the kernel.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[nine-times]

It takes more than a kernel to run an application. For example, you're not going to be able to run OpenOffice on Linux without some implementation of X11.

So Apple has something else instead of X11, and you can't run Photoshop without that. That thing is proprietary.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[dotancohen]

I see, thanks. Is there any effort to reverse engineer it?

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[nine-times]

Not that I'm aware of. I'm guessing it would be pretty hard, and the people capable of doing it are more likely to focus on WINE, which incidentally I believe can be used to run the Windows version of Photoshop.

Re:Pretty cool, actually

[dotancohen]

Thanks.

Excellent!

[je ne sais quoi]

This is precisely what we want to see. Hardware manufacturers using the openness and customizability of Linux and free software to ensure not only that their software and their hardware play nice but to give the device a look and feel that is distinct and tailored to the device. I think we can all agree that Apple owes at least part of its success to a relatively seamless and user-friendly interface between hardware and software. Linux and open source software should allow the same thing but any hardware manufacturer could do it rather than just Apple. If they had put windows on it, this netbook would act more or less like every other windows laptop out there, just less powerful. Instead, they have something that is actually exciting.

Re:Excellent!

[nine-times]

Yeah, I've sort of been waiting for this. It makes a lot of sense to me that OEMs would want their pre-installed OS to be something that they could control completely, even if they don't technically "own" it.

Once upon a time, every computer company came out with their own hardware and software package. You had Apple, IBM, Commodore, etc. Some of the reason that everyone came out with their own software was because they weren't allowed to just take each others' software, but some of it was also that they each had different ideas about what was important.

That model fell apart because it was too expensive for everyone to develop everything themselves from scratch, and also because it was too annoying to deal with all the incompatibilities. However, by turning to Microsoft as an alternate solution, everyone sacrificed a lot of power and control over their own products.

Now that there are credible FOSS operating systems just sitting around waiting to be used, the problems of "starting from scratch" and "dealing with incompatibilities" are pretty much gone. If I were running Dell or HP, I would have had people working on custom/rebranded Linux or BSD distributions for several years already, including packaging systems and servers that would allow my company to control updates too.

Re:Excellent!

[rhsanborn]

Except for the hitch where grandma calls and asks why she can't install her grandsons jump start program. Or Billy's mom can't figure out why turbo tax doesn't work. These aren't insignificant issues for HP, Dell and the like. These people tie up support lines and definitely have a cost associated with them.

Re:Excellent!

[nine-times]

It's a problem, but not an insurmountable one. In fact, this happens already, and proprietary companies deal with it. There's a lot of commonality between distributions, and have been attempts to standardize certain things. In the worst case scenario, developers will have to create packages for different distributions, which doesn't seem all that impossibly hard under most circumstances. And like I said, this already happens.

But I think that if Linux gets to be big enough, one of two things will happen. Either most companies will offer their software under some kind of open source license sufficient to allow people to port the software in a pinch, or else enough of a standard base will be established. It may be some official standard or a de facto standard, but there will be some set of libraries/tools/applications that developers will pretty well be able to assume are present on most Linux distributions.

Re:Excellent!

[blackest_k]

Well I haven't got a hp mini but the Desktop theme looks quite good on an Aspire One maybe a little too dark.
The Colours seem to restrict the viewing angle.

http://hpmini.archive.canonical.com/dists/hardy-hpmini/universe/binary-lpia/

holds the goodies it's largely the themes you want and background although possibly the hp toolbar and browser bar do something too.

Re:Excellent!

[Risen888]

Ancient, ancient, tired troll. Go to bed, troll.

You can't put a Playstation game in a Wii. And yet they sell both Playstations and Wiis. It's fucking amazing.

What Ubuntu?

[rotteneffekt]

It uses win3.1 file manager! Apart from the home screen, i don't see what's the big improvement, just another try to outbling apple's piano black darkness. A step in the right direction though.

Why 8.04?

[Facegarden]

Why are they using 8.04? Shouldn't it be 8.10?
-Taylor

Re:Why 8.04?

[moosesocks]

Just guessing, but 8.04 is a Long-Term-Support release.

Re:Why 8.04?

[blueg3]

8.04 is LTS, wheras 8.10 is not.

Re:Why 8.04?

[spikeb]

Long Term Support.

Re:Why 8.04?

[Aladrin]

LTS.

8.04 gets Long Term Support from the developers, where 8.10 gets more limited support. You can expect them to upgrade to 10.04 since it'll be the next one with LTS.

Re:Why 8.04?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it's a lts release (long term support) meaning it has a longer support period than the other releases which is important for businesses.

Re:Why 8.04?

[spikeb]

not to mention 8.10 is a load of buggy crap that isn't being fixed.

Re:Why 8.04?

[ultrabot]

Because it's a lts release (long term support) meaning it has a longer support period than the other releases which is important for businesses.

And users that don't like fiddling too much.

Really, I wouldn't recommend 8.10 for people that can't tolerate a bit of breakage (a bit like Fedora releases - some has to be on the cutting edge).

Re:Why 8.04?

[somenickname]

8.04 has become the equivalent of Debian stable. It works for the vast majority of people and if there are specific apps you want to upgrade, you can find newer versions that integrate perfectly with your system. My machine has about 3000 packages installed on it. I only care about 15-20. I just hand upgrade those packages and let the reset sit at their stable state.

Re:Why 8.04?

[nschubach]

It may not seem logical, but upgrading my laptop from 8.04 to 8.10 made me wipe the partition and install Debian Experimental and so far it's been a good move. I did it because so much wasn't working in 8.10. Some things were fixed, but there were more headaches than fixes.

Re:Why 8.04?

[Anonymous Coward]

8.04 is the LTS release for 2008.

Re:Why 8.04?

[doti]

Isn't 9.10 the next LTS? IIRC, it's every 18 months, or three releases.

Re:Why 8.04?

[bluefoxlucid]

I've noticed this. 8.10 has broke my CF reader and my ability to put music on my ipod...

Re:Why 8.04?

[Aladrin]

I thought so, too, so I looked it up before posting. For some reason, it's 2 years this time. Maybe to re-sync with kubuntu?

Re:Why 8.04?

[Darundal]

Can I ask why that is such a big deal when you can just upgrade from within the OS?

Re:Why 8.04?

[DiegoBravo]

ok...

First, I want to buy it with Ubuntu pre-installed just because I don't want to be looking for drivers or doing some weird module configurations (It was a PITA when got my Vostro 1500 with the audio, and the modem never worked at all). I know that a lot of people here loves to waste some days on that, but it not for me, sorry.

Every time I do an upgrade in my current laptop, I fear that some driver, specially the proprietary ones, ends in non functional state (yes, there are the handy Ubuntu forums; but again, I don't have the laptop for playing with the OS but to do my real work).

A mayor upgrade simply breaks things up, despite appearances. For example, I had a very bad time trying to get my appointments history with lightning when upgraded to Ubuntu 8.10 in my laptop... Of course, Ubuntu can not be the culprit for every application and configuration, but the result is the same: time lost.

Why it is so difficult for people to understand that most users just want a nice up-to-date computer that "just work"(tm)?

Re:Why 8.04?

[dirtyhippie]

Stability, stability, stability, stability.

Re:Why 8.04?

[kc2keo]

Yeah, I agree it is stable. I am using 8.10 now and have one issue I never had before. That is the fact that I can't save my session so my old windows pop up when I log on. From google searching I found it is a well known bug with no known work around. So annoying!!!

Re:Why 8.04?

[Knuckles]

Gnome 3.0, I would guess. There were some noises about that.

Re:Why 8.04?

[DiegoBravo]

Netbook != server, so please give me...

Eye-candy, Eye-candy, Eye-candy, Eye-candy ...

and

Latest drivers, Latest drivers, Latest drivers ...

Re:Why 8.04?

[Jorophose]

The new LTS comes out 2 years after (6.06 -> 8.04) but the support keeps coming for a year after that (6.06 -> until june '09) for desktops.

If they change the current rate, and introduce a new LTS or cut the support for a current LTS by a year's difference, it's likely because of KDE4 being deemed LTS-worthy (4.0 obviously wasn't, nothing .0 is) or Gnome 3 being released (and so Ubuntu gets pushed back by a year)

How is this new?

[Taibhsear]

Ubuntu EEE (now called easy peasy)

Re:How is this new?

[gEvil (beta)]

Uhhh, because it's a different GUI than the one used in Easy Peasy/Ubuntu EEE. HP has developed their own GUI, which is what makes it new.

Re:How is this new?

[PrescriptionWarning]

easy peasy looks like crap in comparison, they really need to ditch the rainbowy-hippy look. Personally I've come to like eeeBuntu better.

Re:How is this new?

[Anonymous Coward]

And those are all just using the Netbook Remix for Ubuntu, only with different color schemes.

Re:How is this new?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully it's snappier. I've used Ubuntu-eee on my Eee PC 701 and Easy Peasy on my 900. Both are very sluggish (but otherwise nicely laid out, just wish I had the option to turn off the launcher-menu if I wanted.)

Granted this is HP's version for their own netbook and not the Eee (I'm a little disappointed U-eee and EP run slow on the machines they were apparently intended for.)

installing the HP packages?

[crazybilly]

Anybody tried installing the hp repos and packages on a normal Ubuntu install yet?

Re:installing the HP packages?

[mdm-adph]

Well, I can say that the themes work great, at least: http://lifehacker.com/5147379/get-hps-dark+themed-mini-look-on-your-ubuntu-desktop

Re:installing the HP packages?

[crazybilly]

Looks like the source is available, but needs to be flagged as 'all' rather than just for the atom hardware, as per this thread on the Ubuntu forums.

If I get bored tonight (doubtful), I may give it a go.

Mini 100 specs are the same as most netbooks...

[bleh-of-the-huns]

With that said, I do not see there being any problem installing this on other brands.... Specifically in my case, the Samsung NC10, which has identical hardware.

One thing I did not check out was the keyboard layout, and how the extra function keys (volume, brightness etc) are mapped, and whether those will work with this distro.

And it won't even...

[arhhook]

It won't even come bundled with toolbars, trials, demos, etc that their Windows computers come bundled with.

This is excellent to see.

So what is it made of

[ultrabot]

The linked article was rather sparse with technical details. What's the window manager? What are the building blocks? Doesn't look like a vanilla gnome setup...

The links says it will be a download

[Kupfernigk]

The linked article says HP will offer a download to create a flash boot disk.

Win+R

[nemeosis]

Alt+F2

This is one of most annoying things about Linux. It sometimes tries to copy Windows, but instead, does a half-assed job.

Why not just use the WIN+R command? Microsoft created the Run command, and the Windows Key makes the keystroke very easy. It is certainly easier than reaching for Alt+F2.

Even Apple created their launch application using the command+spacebar keystroke.

Why can't this be made standard? Instead of having to add some other unsupported key application just to get that mapping to use the Windows Key. Practically all keyboards have the Windows key standard.

Re:Win+R

[Anonymous Coward]

From an ergonomic standpoint, "ALT+F2" is easier to press in almost all scenarios than "Windows Key+R"

If you hunt-and-peck:
- ALT+F2: Thumb on alt, Index finger on F2. One does not need to bend their wrists upwards
- WIN+R: Thumb on Win, index on R. One has to rotate wrist, elbow, and shoulder.

If you use home row:
- ALT+F2: Same as the hunt-and-peck
- WIN+R: Bending either the left or right thumb inwards, extending index finger to the R key.

If you have a DVORAK layout:
- ALT+F2: No fucking clue, I don't use DVORAK keyboards because the name reminds me of John Dvorak.
- WIN+R: Same as above

Re:Win+R

[sexconker]

It's because Linux nerds hate MS so much that they refuse to acknowledge the existence of a "Windows key", and they have yet to agree on a "free" (as in Linux nerds) name for it.

Also, Linux nerds use the old IBM 42H1292, which lack said key.

Re:Win+R

[gzipped_tar]

Alt+F2

This is one of most annoying things about Linux. It sometimes tries to copy Windows, but instead, does a half-assed job.

Why not just use the WIN+R command? Microsoft created the Run command, and the Windows Key makes the keystroke very easy. It is certainly easier than reaching for Alt+F2.

Even Apple created their launch application using the command+spacebar keystroke.

Why can't this be made standard? Instead of having to add some other unsupported key application just to get that mapping to use the Windows Key. Practically all keyboards have the Windows key standard.

Quit whining. Train yourself with EMACS. ;)

Well seriously, I believe you should be given the choice of overriding default keyboard bindings. The details would depend on the WM/library used to handle these stuff.

Re:Win+R

[bluefoxlucid]

It's called "Meta"

The Meta key was a special key on old MIT computer keyboards, such as the Space-cadet keyboard. Sun keyboards continue to include a Meta key, marked as a solid diamond.

The key may be considered equivalent to the Macintosh's command key, which has the same location and similar function. On modern keyboards, it is usually emulated with Alt key or with the Windows key.

Re:Win+R

[supernova_hq]

Umm, linux users are pretty unanimous in their use of the term "the super button." And guess what, it was a Mac button before it was ever a Windows button, so stop acting like Microsoft invented it.

Re:Win+R

[glennpratt]

Why would I bend my thumb for WIN+R? I put my left pinky on WIN and my left index on R. Easy. Just like CTRL+F, which I use constantly.

This would all be well and good if F2 was an easy key to touch type or hunt and peck. It's not. Even if I can see my keyboard, hunting and pecking F keys take forever and the F keys are located in slightly different locations on every keyboard and notebook.

I really don't care, I don't know why I wrote this, but I don't feel like deleting it now... cool.

Re:Win+R

[nemeosis]

My comment wasn't supposed to be a flamebait.

It's an "opportunity for improvement".

Even if you Google how to map the Windows key, the solutions are not supported, or isn't exactly very natural.

The power of the Windows Run command, allows you to quickly execute a command line program, without the need to open up a command prompt. Or it allows you to open up a specific program directly, without having to navigate for it through the myriad of menus and sub-menus. Quick and easy.

Re:Win+R

[CannonballHead]

Mine has a Windows logo on it. Calling it a "super button" makes no sense, just like calling it a "return" key when it says "enter" regardless of what the key originally said on it. Stop acting like any reference to Microsoft is a curse? :)

Incidentally, if I'm on a Mac, I don't call it a Windows key, nor do I call the "ALT" or "CTRL" keys "command" or "function" keys. They clearly say "Alt" and "Ctrl" and Macs clearly do not (I forget which one has the Apple logo and which one doesn't, so I forget which one is comparable to alt and which one is comparable to ctrl...)

Re:Win+R

[NullProg]

Microsoft created the Run command

Your being silly, Wozniak invented the RUN command.

Microsoft created PEEK() and POKE().

Enjoy,

Re:Win+R

[Anonymous Coward]

What's funny is that if we're going to go this route and make comparisons, we may as well throw all the CTRL key options for Windows and *nix and all the Splat-key combinations in for the Mac. Once those are all in place, the Mac wins almost every single time for ease of reach/use.

Re:Win+R

[jonesy16]

Actually ... I'm using my 'Mac' keyboard right now and the lower left key is clearly labeled "control" and the key to its right is co-labeled "alt" and "option". So it is acceptable, and indeed appropriate, to refer to those keys as "Alt" and "Ctrl" when using a Mac as well.

Re:Win+R

[Anonymous Coward]

you are a fucking moron

+5 insightful

Re:Win+R

[CannonballHead]

My mistake then. Mac Experience Points * My Mac Experience = .005 ;) :) Although, I know I've used mac keyboards that only have "option" ... or the symbol that looks sorta like "%O"

Re:Win+R

[jonesy16]

Haha, yeah, that key. Well in all fairness I didn't jump on board til the post Intel days, so maybe those keys came with the x86 territory (you know, since they advertised you could run Windows on the computer as well, might as well have all the keys).

Re:Win+R

[Ash-Fox]

This is one of most annoying things about Linux. It sometimes tries to copy Windows, but instead, does a half-assed job.

Copy Windows? Not really.

Why not just use the WIN+R command?

Because it's always been ALT+F2. You can however change the key bindings easily in KDE (no idea about Gnome) if you want.

Why can't this be made standard?

ALT+F2 is standard for the most popular desktop environments on Linux.

Re:Win+R

[Culture20]

The power of the Windows Run command, allows you to quickly execute a command line program, without the need to open up a command prompt.

The Power! of the Windows Run Command (TM)! Maybe I'd need it if I didn't start a few terminals while starting X (since everything is easier to do in linux on the command line). Heck, I even start a new cmd.exe on my windows machines because _almost_all_ of the stuff I want to do in windows is easier on the command line; reg.exe, pstools, net, netdom, etc. I never even knew that win+r opened the Windows Run Command (TM) dialog, but I have used alt+f2 with an Ubuntu Live CD to open gnome-terminal

Mods, please allow me my sarcasm, and don't punish me for feeding a troll.

Re:Win+R

[shutdown -p now]

If you use home row:
- ALT+F2: Same as the hunt-and-peck
- WIN+R: Bending either the left or right thumb inwards, extending index finger to the R key.

If you use home row, then all WIN shortcuts are the same as CTRL shortcuts - you use the little finger to press WIN, not thumb.

Re:Win+R

[Intron]

So where does this command line program print errors? Or any output? The things the Run command are good for are to start cmd or regedit.

Re:Win+R

[sexconker]

It's NOT the meta key.
The meta key is now, for all intents and purposes, the alt key.
See other response from Linux zealot supernova_hq (1014429) calling it the super key.

My point is proven.

Re:Win+R

[sexconker]

Check out the other reply to my post.
Pretty UNunanimous.

Nobody calls a key a button, anyway.
It was not a Mac button (or key).
There were plenty of old IBM keyboards that had the key as well, with a diamond, or 4 diamonds in a larger diamond pattern. A double or hollow diamond logo appeared on what is now the context or "right click" key. We had jump keys and F1 through F22, not your sissy F12.

Sure, Macs had another modifier key in addition to control and option (alt). It was (and still is) called the command key, (colloquially "the apple key" or "the flower key"). Of course, the need for this key was mainly due to the single button mouse.

Modifier keys have gotten jumbled around, added, removed, and relocated, and repurposed so much that a key can really only be defined by a combination of it's scan code and it's function.

Since things can (and often need to be) be remapped, talking about scan codes make little sense once you've actually built the damned keyboard. It's all about how you use it. (And this, of course, depends on what environment / application you're in.)

Re:Win+R

[dave562]

If you use home row: - ALT+F2: Same as the hunt-and-peck - WIN+R: Bending either the left or right thumb inwards, extending index finger to the R key. ----- WIN+R: Just curl your pinky, use the knuckle and hit R with the index. Or use right-hand thumb plus left index R. I think that's the best way to do it, and why most standard keyboards include Alt, Ctrl and Windows keys on both sides. I suppose one could say that the above requires removing your hand from the home row, but that's okay. Those funny feeling spots on the F and J are there to help you get right back to where you were. ;)

Re:Win+R

[Aphoxema]

ALT-F2 on Dvorak is the same as Qwerty, so even better to the case is it's more consistent.

Not that Dvorak doesn't have the Super key in the same place, I just ripped it off because it made me angry.

Re:Win+R

[Anonymous Coward]

It's because Linux nerds hate MS so much that they refuse to acknowledge the existence of a "Windows key", and they have yet to agree on a "free" (as in Linux nerds) name for it.

Also, Linux nerds use the old IBM 42H1292, which lack said key.

Actually, we call it the super key.

Re:Win+R

[Dextrously]

The Windows Key is called the Meta key in Ubuntu. It is available to be bound at will. Alt+F2 has been the standard in linux for a long time to open the run dialog. As AC said, its much easier to hit, I use Right Thumb + Middle Finger (rather than index finger). Hitting Meta+R throws my typing off for a moment.

If you really really need Win+R in Ubuntu, go to your top tool bar "System->Prefernces->Keyboard Shortcuts", scroll down the list to find "Show the panel run application dialog" and change it from Alt+F2 to Meta+R.

Re:Win+R

[Eil]

Alt+F2

This is one of most annoying things about Linux. It sometimes tries to copy Windows, but instead, does a half-assed job.

What you call half-assed, I call a reasonable standard. On Linux, Alt+F2 brings up a Run dialog in nearly every window manager and desktop environment. On top of that, the keyboard shortcuts on Linux tend to be relatively consistent across most common, actively-developed applications. On Windows, the only applications with similar keyboard shortcuts for similar tasks are those that Microsoft develops.

Why not just use the WIN+R command? Microsoft created the Run command, and the Windows Key makes the keystroke very easy. It is certainly easier than reaching for Alt+F2.

Because not every platform that Linux runs on even have Windows keys. However, all modern systems do have Ctrl and Alt (or historical equivalents).

Even Apple created their launch application using the command+spacebar keystroke.

But that's not Win+R either. Pick which one you're going to stand behind. And to be fair, OS X's Spotlight is not at all in the same league with "Run Program".

Why can't this be made standard? Instead of having to add some other unsupported key application just to get that mapping to use the Windows Key. Practically all keyboards have the Windows key standard.

Correction: practically all "Designed for Windows" keyboards have Windows keys. (Note the plural, that's three extra keys crammed in between what used to be the easy-to-hit Ctrl and Alt keys.) I would give anything to find a good-quality keyboard that didn't have these three useless keys. In 15 years, I've never used them. Most people can't remember 3 layers of meta key combinations for their desktop (Shift, Ctrl, Alt), let alone a fourth.

I think most people lobbying for the Windows keys are just those who have gotten used to Win+E for explorer, Win+R for program run, etc. Tell me, how would it have been such a trajedy to learn Alt+E or Alt+R instead? The Windows keys were and always will be 100% marketing, 0% necessity.

Re:Win+R

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno about your keyboard, I'm using a Logitech MX5000.

To hit Alt+F2 with my thumb and index finger on this particular layout requires uncomfortably bending my thumb and extending my index finger to its limit. I know a number of people with small hands who just plain couldn't do it one handed.

On the other hand, WIN+R requires that I tuck my pinky finger down slightly and extend my index finger slightly.
 
This keyboard's layout isn't 100% like every other keyboard out there, but its close enough.
 
Now that I think of it, I do have a 'standard' ascii layout keyboard. Trying this out... basically the same thing. Striking Alt+F2 is more comfortable on this keyboard than my other one, but its still more comfortable to strike WIN+R.

Re:Win+R

[testerus]

This is also something I am wondering about. Things would be so much easier if windowmanagers would actually leave the Alt Key alone for all the applications that use Alt-Shortcuts. Using the window key for window management sounds like the natural coincidence to me.

Re:Win+R

[Anonymous Coward]

I hit it with my pinky on Win and my middle on R. It's a really easy move away from home row.

Alt+F2 doesn't seem like a big deal either but Win R doesn't require gymnastics.

Re:Win+R

[vjoel]

You insensitive clod. I have a thinkpad.

Re:Win+R

[Umangme]

I love Windows because I get to show of my phenomenal typing speeds... Not to forget my memory of the full address of almost every application I need, without having to touch the mouse!

Windows:
Win+R + "C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\Firefox.exe"

Ubuntu:
Alt+F2 + "fir" + Enter

(And GNOME-Do, of course, is spoilsport!)

Re:Win+R

[sexconker]

Alt is meta.

Ctrl+Escape has been standard in Windows for a long time to open the start menu.

Ctrl+Shift+Escape has been standard in Windows for a long time to open the task manager.

Windows in fact has an ass ton of handy keyboard shortcuts most people don't know about.

Mythtv

[Anonymous Coward]

This looks handy for mythtv; everything is large and looks sharp at the same time.

Re:Mythtv

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope you mean the GUI; you've better not be suggesting using a netbook as a MCPC

I don't get it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where's the Australian connection?

wimps

[gzipped_tar]

But experienced Linux users can always fire up a terminal window by hitting Alt+F2 and entering 'gnome-terminal.

Gnome-terminal for wimps. Real geek uses the non-X11 terminals and GNU Screen ;)

Re:wimps

[Culture20]

Gnome-terminal for wimps. Real geek uses the non-X11 terminals and GNU Screen ;)

I'd use screen much more often if the scroll-back didn't suck.

Re:wimps

[Xabraxas]

I'd use screen much more often if the scroll-back didn't suck.

What's wrong with the scrollback?

Re:wimps

[Culture20]

Ah, NM, seems it was fixed mid-2008:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/screen/+bug/106995

Theme available to download?

[edmicman]

I *think* this was posted on Lifehacker yesterday, that you could download and install the theme that this uses. Here's the link:
http://lifehacker.com/5147379/get-hps-dark+themed-mini-look-on-your-ubuntu-desktop

I tried it last night, on 8.10, and didn't have much luck. I'd really like a dark theme, but none of the ones I find seem to work well. Sure, I'll grant that the theme *did* look good. But it screwed up the controls so that iGoogle looked like crap and I couldn't read half the HTML elements. I like the window border of the theme, but if I only use that I lose the all-black task bar. All in all, I thought Firefox looked pretty bad under this.

Also, I still didn't like the icons. Why do 99% of the gnome icon themes suck? They all have this ugly volume control, and ugly 4 bars for the wireless connection. I've found some nice minimalist OSX-like icons themes, but they are always black and don't work well with the dark interfaces!

I did like the mini-style of the theme. Changing back to some of my others I realized how much space is wasted on some of the menus and the bars. Just my $.02.

Re:Theme available to download?

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried it and liked it until I had to use OpenOffice. I couldn't read the text in the dialogues. I had to go back to DarkRoom to get a decent looking dark theme that was usable.

Re:Theme available to download?

[EponymousCustard]

i'm using crunchbang which is based on ubuntu on my eee 701. liking the openbox interface, dark theme and small borders. there's a special version called cruncheee for eee.

Re:Theme available to download?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I read somewhere that the whole GNU/Linux thing might even allow you to put together/edit not only your own icons, but perhaps even let you put a whole theme together. Plus, a birdie told me that there might even be multiple desktop environments to choose from in the first place. Crazy!

Its about time....

[mlwmohawk]

For almost 25 years Microsoft has been dictating the OS and hardware for personal computers. Both consumers and producers alike have suffered.

Better systems not supported by Microsoft languished.

Companies with really good ideas run bankrupt when Microsoft copies them and incorporates their knock-off into DOS/Windows.

Before Microsoft, system companies competed on features and support. These days everything is about price and with "windows" being the price point, the HPs and Dells of the world have to play ball with Microsoft.

If, however, the Windows stranglehold can be weakened in that people accept that they don't NEED windows, then that opens opportunity for Linux and other systems.

It is about time the OEMs started flexing their muscle. Once they free themselves, they opportunities will grow!! Economic growth for sure!

Terminal Window

[koh]

But experienced Linux users can always fire up a terminal window by hitting Alt+F2 and entering 'gnome-terminal.'

Not really. "Experienced Linux users" probably have a shortcut key bound to gnome-terminal (and three or four instances always available on spare workspaces). I don't understand why the shortcut key to launch a terminal still does not have a default value in GNOME (at least on my distro). It would simplify things:

But everyone can always fire up a terminal window by hitting Ctrl+Alt+T

Then again, that's a simple thing to contribute. Maybe I should shut up and submit something ;)

Ubuntu Netbook Remix

[rlp]

I use the Ubuntu Netbook Remix GUI for my Asus EEE 900. It's very nice and I very much prefer it to the default Asus interface. It's also built on Ubuntu 8.04.

Re:Ubuntu Netbook Remix

[nintendo_is_a_cereal]

Ditto that. I'm using UNR on my Dell Mini 9 and it is a pleasant to look at black theme. Works rather well. I'm using 8.10 though not 8.04.

Re:Ubuntu Netbook Remix

[Abreu]

Same here, I am using the Netbook Remix interface on top of Ubuntu 8.10 on my Acer Aspire One and it works perfectly

(caveat: I had to install a custom kernel to get all the hardware to work, but it was easy after that... The kernel is found at the Acer Aspire One users group)

Re:Ubuntu Netbook Remix

[cens0r]

It works well on my Lenovo S10 as well. 8.10 pretty much worked out of the box for everything.

FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

In just a short time HP took what the open source clowns had been working so hard on and getting nowhere in the market and created a polished and commercial quality UI for their hardware.

Just tried out the latest Ubuntu vmware image to check the progress once again. And no surprise:

* The same old shitty font rendering, layout, spacing, kerning, and on and on

* The most basic UI widget spacing and alignment completely ignored - hell, the one off stuff I've thrown together in Interface Builder looks commercial quality compared to the app and system UI shit in Ubuntu

* Even something as trivial as the damn Solitaire app that has mass market appeal to average users looks like some piece of shit shareware title from the mid-1990s.

So keep patting yourselves on the back about 'teh power of open source'. Don't cry when more and more companies take your shit and actually do something commercial grade and useful to use for people outside of 30 year old Star Trek fans still living in the parents basement.

Keep spouting that +5 Insightful Slashdot bullshit:

* You can change the theme and make it look 'pretty'

* You have version 0.2367, version 0.2368 is supposed to be much better. Just grab a source tarball

* If's free, stop complaining

* Well --I-- think the (shitty)fonts/colour choice/UI spacing/widgets/etc look great!

* Who cares about silly little 'nitpicking' UI problems, we can spin the whole desktop as a cube! Take that Microsoft and Apple. Linux is 'ahead'!

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

Thrash, dinosaur, thrash!

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[linhares]

Bastard stole my comment.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

I love it when someone is dumb enough to try to use the word 'dinosaur' as an insult.

How many millions of years did the dinosaurs dominate the Earth?

How many millions of years have humans? 200,000 for modern humans. 1-2 for the primitive humans.

Save your shit talking for another couple hundred million years you Bearded GNU Freak. Less frisbee golf, bong hits, and Star Trek conventions and more coding. Linux is so shitty that even in the worst economic conditions in decades, Microsoft on the PR ropes with Vista that a fucking free for everyone Linux is going exactly no where in the marketplace.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Toonol]

But the only reason HP even attempted to go in and fix all the niggardly little details was because FOSS programmers built a whole operating system for them to use. This seems like everything is working just the way it's supposed to, to everybody's benefit. Linux is getting improvements from both ends.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

The same old shitty font rendering, layout, spacing, kerning, and on and on

Agreed. I installed Ubuntu a couple of weeks ago, fired up OpenOffice's word processor and typed "Arse bandits" in the default font. The gap between the "d" and the "i" looked like a space. WTF? "di" is not a letter pair that normally even needs kerning.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that open source doesn't just come from a bunch of volunteers working in their parent's basement right? This is the whole point of open source. ANYONE (individuals and companies alike) can go and take the source code and improve/modify it. Yeah sure, your opinion is the current efforts are lacking but a company used the base of those efforts and created something well thought out. I personally find some of the Gtk themes and especially the ones shipped by default with ubuntu to be kind of cartoony and crappy. It might just be a windows bias but I usually just swing over to gnome-look.org and grab a theme that makes everything look much more polished.

I also have to agree with you on some points and address a bunch of people in the OSS community that seem to have these stupid thoughts in their mind.

If you FOSSies keep using the excuse that "it's free stop complaining" nobody will respect open source. If you are writing something and your motivation is for others to use it, fix the damn bugs. Why would anyone create something and not want to put in their best effort? Software costing $0 is just a by product of it being open sourced in most cases and is a piss poor excuse and an exercise in laziness.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[n8_f]

all the niggardly little details

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[thetoadwarrior]

Is Ballmer going to give you a pay rise for this comment?

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[orkysoft]

On my system, the gap is between the n and the d: ban dits.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[atraintocry]

Sorry, I hadn't realized you felt so strongly about it. I'll remove the gun that I had to your head when I told you to use linux.

As for my real comment: HP includes something similar with their Windows machines. On there, it's extraneous bloat. On the Mi, it fills in a usability gap. I'm not sure who the target market is (certainly not linux geeks), but maybe this is a good enough idea that the market will form around it.

The best part of the article was when they said how they'll be offering a download that you can put on a USB stick to do a complete OS restore. It is a clear case where using a free OS allows an OEM to do their job right. Ever tried to install Windows from a USB drive? Huge PITA.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that is because Linux/open source has reached somewhat of a steady state in the past few years and the same problems are just going to remain unfixed and unsolved indefinitely because they would require maturity, hard work, bruising of people's egos, consensus and all that stuff that makes commercial software worth paying for.

I would not be surprised if five years from now you and many other people are making almost exactly the same comment.

As anyone who has worked on shipping commercial grade quality software knows 90 percent of the effort is in the last 10 percent of the product to get it to a polished commercial grade 1.0 gold master. That fundamental reality of software development is why the illusion that open source is going to somehow take over the world. Anyone can quickly throw together a beta spreadsheet, word processor, browser etc in not too long of a time and people will be amazed at how much they've accomplished. As any veteran software developer knows that is when the real hard and unrewarding work starts. And that is the point open source falls flat on its face and stagenates. The remaining 10 percent to get a finished product never gets done because it is incredibly hard. Instead it is much easier to just give up and go start a new project with big plans and grand promises and all the fun it is starting up a new project.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

People are niggardly, details are niggling. And the former sounds enough like a racial slur that, even though it's technically OK to use, it brands you as insensitive.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[linhares]

WTF, AC? You hacked me? How did you get this other comment? I'm changing my passwd, fucking prick.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

ok first of all "Niggardly" is offensive on too many levels you really need to picky up the book "what not to say in public" and seeing how this is the internet this is public
lastly Suhweet Linux by HP

cant wait

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Toonol]

Hmm.

niggardly /ngrdli/ -adjective
1. reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly.
2. meanly or ungenerously small or scanty: a niggardly tip to a waiter.

I think the 2nd usage is somewhat close to my intent, but not exactly. 'Niggling' works better. Your complaint about it sounding like a racial slur is pretty much irrelevant to me, though. It would only seem racist to somebody viewing it through a pre-existing racist filter.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Mean Variance]

The misunderstanding of the word is widespread. Just check Google news or something like that.

Personally, I'd just use a synonymous term to avoid baiting controversy.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[jedidiah]

On my system there are no "gaps" except for the space.

I think the both of you are completely full of it and have never touched any version of Star Office on any platform.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[theGreater]

Niggling.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[soundguy4film]

all the niggardly little details

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

all the niggardly little details

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

The root of that word(I dont think I have to type it) means ignorant person, it did not develop into a racist or derogatory term until sometime betwwen the civil war and now.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Xabraxas]

In just a short time HP took what the open source clowns had been working so hard on and getting nowhere in the market and created a polished and commercial quality UI for their hardware.

You're an idiot. The UI wasn't created by HP. It was created by the very same "open source clowns" you are deriding.

www.fluendo.com

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[orkysoft]

I can get you a screenshot if you want. I've been seeing these odd gaps in words for years now. Maybe it's a font issue. For some reason, the gaps appear for some words only.

Specs: Kubuntu 8.04 OOo 2.4.1 Font: Times New Roman

When I switch to Nimbus Roman No9 L, the gaps all seem to disappear.

We can probably blame MS for this, since Times New Roman is installed by the msttcorefonts package ;-)

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft and Apple spend huge effort productizing their OSes, and their top-down structure is good at setting project-wide priorities that individual developers might otherwise ignore or go different directions on.

The FOSS world is less top-down, and it's harder to get choices made that bring coherence between many different projects.

Ubuntu probably has the best shot at doing this, given that its benevolent dictator can influence the developers on behalf of end-user-oriented goals.

But really, if you and 10 of your best friends all got together and said "let's make this coherent UI stuff happen for $favorite_distro", you could probably pull it off with some politics and persistence.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Curien]

"Niggardly" has never been a racist term; it has always been derogatory (inasmuch as "ignorant" is derogatory). But the grandparent (the post you replied to) is right: "all the niggardly little details" makes absolutely no sense.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Darkk]

Shitty rendering of fonts? What you talking about?

Dude, go to SYSTEM >> PREFERENCES >> APPEARANCE >> FONTS >> click on subpixel smoothing (LCDs)

Try it and it look great on my monitor!

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Alvare]

We have Bash. Why would we need all that shit normal users use, I only want to have Bash downloading the QOTD and counting the amount of swears in the kernel source code, while it's downloading pr0n and comparing assian sex-poses to north-american ones to build a DB for my personal use, I don't really care about the UI widgets and that irrelevant stuff.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

he probably meant "african americanly"

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

we are schizophrenic, sad to tell you

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[linhares]

Hmm. niggardly /ngrdli/ -adjective 1. reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly. 2. meanly or ungenerously small or scanty: a niggardly tip to a waiter. I think the 2nd usage is somewhat close to my intent, but not exactly. 'Niggling' works better. Your complaint about it sounding like a racial slur is pretty much irrelevant to me, though. It would only seem racist to somebody viewing it through a pre-existing racist filter.

It would only seem racist to somebody viewing it through an american filter.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[ozmanjusri]

In just a short time HP took what the open source clowns had been working so hard on

What part of open source didn't you understand?

The HP developers who made this interface ARE "open source clowns", just like the clowns at the NSA who wrote SELinux, or the 600+ foolish developers in the IBM Linux Technology Centers, or the idiots over at NASA and SGI who contribute clustering software, or the morons in Fujitsu, Hitachi, Intel, NEC, Novell, NTT, etc, etc who also contribute.

You can get th HP UI source code here if you're really interested.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Toonol]

You Pedagogue!

:)

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[DavoMan]

Quick, better file a patent for it, lobby some stuff and win the patent. Then go sue him for violating your intellectual property.
(Hows that for a slashdottish post?)

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[protobion]

The root of that word(I dont think I have to type it) means ignorant person, it did not develop into a racist or derogatory term until sometime betwwen the civil war and now.

The root of that word is not ignorant person but "Negro", referring to the race of people with Black Ancestry. Negro itself comes from the Latin word 'niger' - which means 'black'. The usage of the word to mean ignorant person is but the start of the racist connotations it has acquired in the US.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[AliasMarlowe]

The root of that word is not ignorant person but "Negro", referring to the race of people with Black Ancestry. Negro itself comes from the Latin word 'niger' - which means 'black'. The usage of the word to mean ignorant person is but the start of the racist connotations it has acquired in the US.

WRONG. Here's a summary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly for you. You might be particularly amused by the item on the Economist magazine. The "racist connotations" to which you refer are nonexistent, except perhaps for a few (mostly Americans, apparently) whose grasp of English is as poor as yours.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[E IS mC(Square)]

"productizing their OSes"
"project-wide priorities"
"go different directions"
"bring coherence"
"end-user-oriented goals"

Okay. Now I will have to go and puke.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm the "Arse bandits" AC. Here's a screenshot.

Note how it says "Arse band it s". Yes, the gap between "band" and "it" isn't quite a full space and the gap between "it" and "s" is even smaller, but it is still VERY ugly.

Although I'm still mostly a Windows user almost all the application software I use is open source, and I've contributed patches to a few projects. I like open source. But ugly is ugly.

Re:FOSS Humiliated By HP

[protobion]

PAY ATTENTION.
Er, I was referring to the other similar sounding word which has racist connotations? Which is also what the post I replied to was referring to, not the word 'niggardly'.

Of course, I will refrain from insulting your ability to read between the lines, unlike you when ending your reply.

alt-f2 + gnome-terminal

[larry bagina]

that shows what's wrong with gnome. alt-f2 isn't an easy key combo, and then having to type "gnome-terminal", with a -, not the easiest character to type. On OS X, command-space (possibly the easiest key combo) brings up the spotlight menu, which will find Terminal after 1-2 letters.

Re:alt-f2 + gnome-terminal

[Ash-Fox]

that shows what's wrong with gnome. alt-f2 isn't an easy key combo, and then having to type "gnome-terminal", with a -, not the easiest character to type.

I'm sure anyone versed with the terminal won't have this problem. Anyone who does have a problem with this, shouldn't be in the terminal in the first place.

On OS X, command-space (possibly the easiest key combo) brings up the spotlight menu, which will find Terminal after 1-2 letters.

I find spotlight to be a drain on battery power and CPU usage at times, I don't think that's a good idea for a netbook.

Re:alt-f2 + gnome-terminal

[PenGun]

I would hope I'm not stuck with gnome-terminal. Why would 'rxvt' not work?

Re:alt-f2 + gnome-terminal

[Ash-Fox]

I would hope I'm not stuck with gnome-terminal. Why would 'rxvt' not work?

Just going to take a guess and assume it's not included by default.

Personally, I prefer Yakuake.

Why 8.04?

[DiegoBravo]

Intrepid (8.10) has several months out. Ok, maybe it is because 8.10 is not a LTS, but (obviously) netbooks are not meant to be used as servers, so it make sense to use the last version. That's the reason I was yet waiting for the Dell mini-9 (that too comes with 8.04) to buy with an upgraded OS.

Eyecandy!

[LunarEffect]

It makes you eye-teeth fall out =)

Use your pinky

[tknd]

CTRL+C: (pinky CTRL, index finger C)
WIN+R: (pinky Winkey, index finger R)
Type a captital R: SHIFT+R (similar fingers)

For me ALT+F2 is more awkward since the distance between the ALT+F2 keys is farther than WIN+R.

The Secret Of HP's Success

[Anonymous Coward]

The engineers, managers, and artists who worked on this woke up, got to work by 9 to 10am, worked all day with a 1 hour lunch break, and went home at 5pm.

The junior programmer who wanted to work on adding cool new features was given a stern lecture from his boss and ended up doing the messing and unrewarding work of fixing existing bugs and problems

The weirdo who wanted neon pink and green as the default UI color scheme and then demanded there be a UI option to support his personal choice was fired

When one engineer's code was causing problems in another engineer's code and tried to say it wasn't his problem, he got a serious talking to by his manager and he fixed his code

best foot forward with Ubuntu

[bcrowell]

Ubuntu is simply the sane thing to put on a desktop machine these days, especially for users who may not already be familiar with Linux.

It was always really frustrating to me in the past to see hardware companies selling machines with Linux preinstalled, but with some crappy version of Linux that was bound to create a bad impression of Linux in general.

Back when Fry's was selling Great Quality boxes for as low as $180, I bought several of them. They had something called ThizLinux on them, which was apparently a distro that GQ created themselves. No documentation for ThizLinux came with the machine, and googling for ThizLinux turned up a Chinese-language web site with no English translation. The printed docs that came with the machines were actually 90% information on how to wipe ThizLinux off your hard disk and install Windows. The impression any user would get from this was probably that Linux was crap, and nobody really wanted it.

Same deal with the Everex gPC, which I reviewed a while back. This may be a little unfair, because what I bought from them was a beta of their gOS distro, and now they have a newer version out, but basically it sucked, and I very quickly decided to replace it with Ubuntu. IMO it was just foolish of Everex to put out their own distro. I think they were imagining that by making it look slick (and a lot like MacOS) they would attract users. But in reality it worked so poorly that I think they were shooting themselves in the foot.

Re:best foot forward with Ubuntu

[fuzzlost]

I also bought some Fry's GQ boxes, but they Lindows installed. I can only guess that the distro was chosen to confuse consumers into thinking it was just a different Windows OS. I found Lindows itself to be lacking, but didn't play too long before I wiped it and installed debian...

Re:best foot forward with Ubuntu

[bcrowell]

I also bought some Fry's GQ boxes, but they Lindows installed.

Yeah, I think they switched from ThizLinux to Lindows at some point. Too bad Fry's doesn't sell them anymore. They really were, uh, great quality in my experience :-) Apparently Fry's were just getting way too many returns, and it wasn't profitable for them. Since my machines ran great year after year, and are all still running, I assume the returns weren't due to hardware problems, but were from people who didn't understand that they weren't getting a machine with Windows installed.

I want one!

[Cassini2]

It won't even come bundled with toolbars, trials, demos, etc that their Windows computers come bundled with.

This makes my heart leap for joy.

Seriously, I can't tell you how good this makes me feel. I'm going to cry ...

It is like seeing the first day of spring, after you have been in jail for far, far, too long.

Got to play with it..

[carp3_noct3m]

I got to play with these series (I think these are the ones, so much information overload there) at CES this year. I was asking the poor HP rep all kinds of questions about the the OS and what kernel but was fairly impressed with his responses. I was shown 3 different configurations, the best but largest one being the "business" edition. I played with the interface and browsed the web a bit and generally messed around, and I really think the interface was very responsive, snappy even, and that this is the direction netbooks should head / are heading. And that it runs NIX is just so awesome in itself that's just extra points. The netbook with nix has been done before, but personally never this good. I think I may get the boss to get me one for running around town with!

netbooks?

[Anonymous Coward]

come on people. is everyone serious about these things? you can get a real laptop for a hundred dollars more that is far better. these netbooks aren't worth the time and effort people are putting into them.

Why A New UI?

[Frihet]

Why is HP wasting development resources on a crippled front-end any halfway competent user is going to turn off as quickly as she can? That's what I did with my Meso (Ubuntu NBR). Spend the development money on a 5 second boot. That will add MUCH value. It will also make Microsofties squirm, and that is good for HP and everyone else. Having control of the hardware, HP could do this -- open source, of course.

Re:Why A New UI?

[gujo-odori]

Probably because the number of halfway competent users is far, far less than half the number of users :p

trollin trollin trollin

[bigredradio]

Please do not feed this troll.

black GUIs...

[greenarrow7]

black GUIs look great until you want to either:
a. use the internet
b. edit any kind of document

At this point you have to either:
a. get blinded everytime you use google
b:
import internet
internet.colour = not internet.colour

Re:black GUIs...

[islisis]

That's why I do b, and have every intention to live out those days of bbs surfing. I want the information to flow and be treated equally.

It would of course be great if there was a Firefox extension which remembered colour settings for specifc urls...

In the meantime Firefox 3 + force dark background with light text settings + disable flash, and similar settings in my word processor and pdf viewer is keeping the tradition alive

Re:black GUIs...

[toddestan]

To be fair, there is always Blackle for all your late night Googling needs. I really wish that everyone would switch to a light-on-dark color scheme as it's easier on the eyes, but I guess that's just not going to happen.

is it just me

[certain death]

or is anyone else reminded of an All New and Shiny MS Bob?!?

Re:is it just me

[slygrayling]

or is anyone else reminded of an All New and Shiny MS Bob?!?

Agree, but it's quite good anyways that Linux is coming down to our homecomputers more. I dont like this stamp that only "nerds" should use it, i mean. The OS is very good, and it is even better that is getting bigger and bigger. The community get larger, and also the future of Linux is just a step ahead. :-) anyways, good news. I like HP, they have always been open for new solutions. (Y). / SlyGrayling

keyboard shortcut innovation...

[endy_X11]

OMG Alt+F2 is such an innovation! Oh wait, that's standard in KDE 4 and I'm sure it had been around before KDE implemented it. So really? That was the high point of the article?

Odd

[Anonymous Coward]

Reg reported yesterday that HP UK was dropping linux from its netbooks.

Idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for not only pointing out what everyone already knows, but also showing what a complete moron you are for missing the point of what everyone else is discussing.

Re:Idiot

[Xabraxas]

Thanks for not only pointing out what everyone already knows, but also showing what a complete moron you are for missing the point of what everyone else is discussing.

Enlighten me then. What is the point? The post I was replying to claimed that the UI was polished by HP but it wasn't. It is an open source UI. You're the one who looks like a moron even attempting to argue against that.

looks like HP is tackling the gnome/KDE issue

[recharged95]

As I sit here on my OpenSUSE 11.1 w/KDE4.x, I'm thinking, I wish I had the desktop widget and combined yast/system manager in a nice neat eye candy package on gnome--then I'd switch back to Gnome (it's just a more productive WM IMO) with it's fusion eye candy.

.

HP appears to be asking the same question, cause I see KDE 4.x elements, of course, running gnome.

HPLIP rocks also

[AliasMarlowe]

HP also "gets it" on providing decent printer drivers for Linux (maybe RMS had a quiet word with someone). Their HPLIP package immediately found my network HP7410 all-in-one, and set up access to its printer, scanner and fax. It plays nicely with CUPS, each function works with all relevant applications, and it has a nice device manager interface.
Oh, and the Linux drivers don't even try to call home like HP's drivers for Windows. There's no need, as HPLIP is open source and available from the repositories of probably every Linux distribution.

"many people older than, say, 50 can and do use.."

[alizard]

How nice of you to point that out.

This person older than 50 is waiting for informit to publish my article on installing and customizing Ubuntu for the Eee PC to replace the dumbed down POS "easy to use" netbook UI based on Xandros. I'm also checking my e-mail client on my desktop using nx remote control software. I make my living these days selling Linux how-to articles, and I'm hardly the only one in my age bracket writing this sort of thing.

Just because your grandparents aren't good with computers doesn't mean that everyone in that demographic is also clueless with computers.

Mod parent up!

[junglee_iitk]

I wish I had the mod points!

u r so niave

[cinnamon colbert]

remembe AIX ?
The goal on HPs part is to (1) wean people off of MS, and then swithc to a proprietary OS
NO Business could possily resist the profit inherent in propietary software if they could possibly jam it down your throat