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DAM Pops Energy Star's Bubble

Martin Hellman writes "Last month we discussed a major problem with the EPA's Energy Star program. A Sony TV that was advertised to draw less than 0.1 watts in standby mode was actually drawing 15 watts — 150 times the stated value. A lack of information in the user manual and a poor response from Sony led me to suspect the problem was with the Electronic Program Guide feature, but a lack of information in the User Guide and a lack of response from Sony made it impossible to be sure — or to turn off the EPG. At current prices, that power consumption cost me about as much as a subscription to TV Guide magazine! The EPG was not as free as the on screen instructions would have you believe. Now, Device Guru reports on the resolution of that issue. As suspected, the problem was with the EPG, and there is a way to turn it off — now documented in that story. The problem is probably not unique to Sony or TVs that claim Energy Star compliance (devices are self-certified by the manufacturers!), so picking up a power meter is likely to have a good return on investment. As a result of this waste of power, the EPA is planning for future versions of the Energy Star requirements to limit the amount of time a TV can spend in Download Acquisition Mode (DAM) as the time for acquiring the EPG is known."

27 of 147 comments (clear)

  1. Buying a low-power TV to save on costs by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's a little like hiring the A-team to eradicate your rat infestation. You're paying a premium to save money in the long run, but the long run simply isn't long enough to justify the short-term expense.

    Do you work in the credit industry?

    1. Re:Buying a low-power TV to save on costs by DavidTC · · Score: 2, Funny

      Mine does.

      I use a fucking power strip on it.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    2. Re:Buying a low-power TV to save on costs by DavidTC · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Plus, you don't have to worry about lightning. (Assuming you don't care about a 7 dollar alarm clock.)

      I was actually going to get one of those kill-a-watt measuring devices to see if it would be worthwhile to install power strips on my microwave and see how much various chargers were drawing when not hooked up, or when hooked up but the device is fully charged. I have a theory they're sucking power, and I could just leave the strip on for an hour a day when everything's plugged in.

      But I discovered those things were like 100 dollars. I thought they'd be more along the lines of the cost of multimeters, which are like 10 bucks for cheap ones.

      Hey, Obama, hear that? How about a rebate for those things for those of us trying to save energy? Or, I hear in a few places, you can apparently borrow them from the public library. How about federal grants for that?

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    3. Re:Buying a low-power TV to save on costs by Mr.+DOS · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wow, where are you trying to buy them from? I can get the lower-capacity one for $20, and a higher-capacity one for $40 (sorry, I can't remember the specs) - and I'm in Canada. (For those who don't know, electronic gadgets are generally at least 10% more expensive up here in my experience).

      Here you go, ThinkGeek has them for $25. Mind you, those only have one plug on them - you can plug a power strip into them, but you'd have to make sure you don't overload it.

            --- Mr. DOS

    4. Re:Buying a low-power TV to save on costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      For ease of use, I have a remote-control powerstrip that I can turn off from a distance.

      Well, put on standby.

    5. Re:Buying a low-power TV to save on costs by hjf · · Score: 2, Informative

      what? first: a 100mA 4.5V wall-wart uses 0.45W at full-load and inefficiency load makes it use 0.9W. even on 1% load it still draws about 50% of its rating.

      second: where do you get the single-wattage power converter idea???? at least Philips TVs, even the cheapest one sold for about USD 150 here in Argentina has dual power supplies. A so-called "burst" psu which makes it use less than 0.5W on standby. That's the "standby" psu. It also has a full-power psu. the microprocessor is constantly going into "sleep" mode to save even more power, it uses so little energy that you can unplug it and the standby led will stay on for a couple of minutes (!). Newer models don't even have a standby led to save even more power (it turns itself off after a few seconds).

      Philips audio sets also have "eco-power": they even turn off the VFD and don't show the time while on standby.

      (Disclaimer: I work as an authorized philips repair technician. I learned all that in training)

  2. Re:Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Can't there be a way to filter out comments that have "N**GER" in it say more than two times?

  3. Why would the EPA bother changing the requirements by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Funny

    They could require devices to generate energy while on standby (by vapourizing invisible pink unicorns), and manufacturers could keep self-certifying their devices as compliant.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  4. Yet another reason not to buy Sony any longer. by krischik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What do whe have:

    1) Rootkits by Sony BMG.
    2) Non existent customer service and end of live / support in less the 6 month by Sony Ericsson.
    4) Insistence on prohibitory memory stick by all Sony departments.
    5) Lying on Energy Star Rating by Sony Electronics.

    Well Sony is on my the list of evil corporation for quite a while now and it does not look they are getting of the list any soon.

    Martin

    1. Re:Yet another reason not to buy Sony any longer. by kramer · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not only that, but they are probably responsible for stealing your third argument!

    2. Re:Yet another reason not to buy Sony any longer. by pyrrhonist · · Score: 2, Informative

      You know what's really going to make the your head asplode?

      Sony TVs come with a printed version of the GPL and LGPL!
      (also the license statements for OpenSSL, FreeType2, Expat, Curl, Popt, and libjpeg)

      ...and, yes, they provide the link to the source code.

      They're evil, but they're in compliance with the GPL.
      They're evil, but they're in compliance with the GPL.
      They're evil, but they're in compilance with the GPL.

      *BOOM*

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
  5. Meter the meter by rxmd · · Score: 4, Funny

    Picking up a power meter is likely to have a good return on investment.

    Remember to pick only Energy Star-compliant power meters, though!

    --
    As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
  6. Everything On A Switch by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is why I have all of my electronics go through a wall switch. TVs, amps, cable boxes, game systems, etc... all continue to draw power even when off. Flip the wall switch on your way out and you have a low-tech way to fight this problem.

    The only downside is that the digital cable box takes a few minutes to start. Actually, come to think of it, it's more of an upside since I get tired of waiting and go do something more productive instead of watching TV.

    1. Re:Everything On A Switch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      These devices are designed to be always-on,

      A cunningly good idea!

      yours,
      CEO of your local Electricity Supply Corporation

    2. Re:Everything On A Switch by DavidTC · · Score: 2, Informative

      You shouldn't be flipping a DVR on and off. Not only is that harmful, as DVRs are computers with filesystems and whatnot that can lose integrity, but it defeats the purpose of having a DVR. (And many of them can't be shut down correctly in any easy manner.)

      It's your TV that really needs to be on a power switch, along with possibly your amp. (My damn stereo has a light to indicate it's off. Yeah, thanks for that.) And DVD players, many of which don't even have the concept of 'off'. And VCRs that aren't used for recording if you still have one of those around. And don't forget AV switches...don't need to switch around if nothing's turn on.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  7. price of TV GUIDE by farnham · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You can get a subscription to TV Guide for eleven dollars ans a quarter?
    are you sure that' snot an introductory rate?
    that's at my local average of 8.55 cents per kilowatt hour.

    --
    pending committee review
  8. Somehow, I doubt it. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Picking up a power meter is likely to have a good return on investment.

    Well, only if you can use it to test new appliance BEFORE you buy them. Otherwise, you're going to be spending a lot of time buying things and returning them.

    Frankly, my time is worth enough that spending more than three or four hours shopping for a new TV (or any other appliance) is a bad idea. Which means that buying something, then wasting time analyzing the power usage, returning it, buying another one, repeat endlessly is a complete waste of time and money.

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    1. Re:Somehow, I doubt it. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, only if you can use it to test new appliance BEFORE you buy them.

      Which may very well prove nothing. If the device only wakes up every few hours to download new information, you might not even detect the extra power drain when running your test in the store.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Somehow, I doubt it. by jshackney · · Score: 2, Funny

      Frankly, my time is worth enough that spending more than three or four hours shopping for a new TV (or any other appliance) is a bad idea.

      Just a little ribbing, but I'd think you have a little more free time than you let on.

  9. Re:Why would the EPA bother changing the requireme by roaddemon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Invisible unicorns? Sure. Pink unicorns? No problem. But invisible pink unicorns? Now you're just making stuff up -- everyone knows that invisible doesn't have a colour.

    As an aside, what colour is a mirror?

    F

  10. Infidel ! by Mornedhel · · Score: 2

    You don't have the faith, do you ?

    --
    This /.-related sig is a stub. You can help Mornedhel by expanding it.
    1. Re:Infidel ! by roaddemon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Awesome: "the faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorn is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them."

  11. Same with Panasonic by Exp315 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I had exactly the same experience with my Panasonic TV. I put a power meter on it shortly after I bought it and discovered that it was drawing 20 watts when off instead of the promised 0.1 watts. I figured that the problem might be the EPG, and discovered with experimentation that the undocumented method of putting in a Zip code of 000000 disabled it and solved the problem.

  12. Measure everything!! by mlwmohawk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Even at the most expensive prices in the US (20 cents per Kwh), this is roughly two dollars a month.

    It may be $0.18 ~ $0.20 for the electrical charge, but on my bill there is delivery and fuel charge. My electricity, in total, comes to a bit over $0.25 a kWh.
    "
    I recently used a "Watts Up" and went through my whole house. Wall warts (transformers) are nasty. Some just sit and use 10~15 watts doing nothing. So if you leave it plugged in and turn the device off, it still sucks up power.

    All "switchers" are not created equal either. Some laptop and monitor sitching power supplies may draw 60w when on, but draw 10w when
    "off"

    I went through my house and brought my electric bill down from $220 to about $180 a month.

    1. Re:Measure everything!! by adolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll improve your argument for you, and then proceed to sneeze at it.

      You say $500. I say: Let's increase that a little to $2 per day.

      I can look at this number, this $2 figure, and know that it's not worth it. Maybe if I lived by myself. But if I have to fight about it with the kids when they don't turn things off, if my wife hates it that the clock on the microwave doesn't work anymore, or that she's got to go and turn the thing on every time she uses it, then what you're suggesting will cost me quite a lot more than $2 in pain on an average day.

      Case in point: The exhaust fan in the bathroom costs me a lot more than $2 per day when left running during the winter time, as it pumps a few few hundred CFM per minute of 72-degree air outside, which gets replaced with 0-20 degree air. I value my peace more than I value my money, however, so I don't fight about it when it gets left on by accident. (I'd put a timer on it, which would help, but in the summer, there's no particular reason to ever turn it off. We don't have air conditioning and it helps circulate air and keep humidity down somewhat in the bathroom. The fan itself is pretty efficient. I'm not rewiring my switches twice a year to save a couple of dozens of dollars in the wintertime, though.)

      It's also a lot cheaper and more convenient to keep the current wife[1] and kids, than to get different ones. Just as it is to keep my (perfectly functional) non-Energy Star microwave, instead of buying a new one.

      [1]: I'll be certain, though, that when the current wife wears out, that the new model will be more energy efficient. Is there a federal mandate on Energy Star labeling for females, yet?

  13. Re:Why would the EPA bother changing the requireme by Matt+Perry · · Score: 2, Informative

    As an aside, what colour is a mirror?

    Silver.

    --
    Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
  14. Re:Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency by adolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I used to use the word nigger a lot. We had some niggers next door who would do stuff like steal the neighborhood's bikes, occasionally harbor a garage full of strange cars or ATVs, do burnouts in the street, congregate in my back yard, fight dogs in their own, and generally behave in a loud fashion whenever the temperature rose above 75 degrees. Those jobless niggers had a swat team kick their back door in twice in the past year.

    Except, generally, the niggers next door where fair skinned with blond hair. There was an occasional black person over there, and the color was never a problem -- the problem was the behavior. Nigger described this better than any other word I could conjure.

    I explained this once to a good friend of mine that I've known my entire life, who happens to be a black man who is both better educated than I and who has been around the block a few more times. He told me that, though he appreciated the fact that my use of nigger was not racially descriptive, that it was still an ugly word. I explained to him a bit more about the situation with the niggers next door, and he agreed with me that their behavior is not something that should be socially-acceptable in what is otherwise a very decent neighborhood.

    He told me that the a more descriptive and less hurtful term might be that they were doing some gangsta shit, or perhaps that they were up to some nigga shit, but that using nigger, no matter how good my intentions were, was probably the wrong thing to do.

    I've been using those terms since, except right now to illustrate a point.

    Is my use of the word "nigger" in this post, as a description and pontification of how I learned to better use English, a troll which should be automatically modded down? It's offtopic in an energy discussion, for sure, but I'm not trolling. I'm just relaying a snippet of my life for those who will read it.

    For this reason, we need human moderators, not automated an censor.