Telling Fact From Fantasy In the World of Apple Rumors

Harry writes "In recent years, fact-based reporting about Apple and its products has been almost completely overwhelmed by gossip, predictions, and speculation — an amazing percentage of which is embarrassingly wrong. I've put together a guide to figuring out which scuttlebutt is almost certainly fiction, and which has a shot at jibing with reality."

Comments

Fantasy: Apple computers aren't overpriced

[elrous0]

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-)

Re:Fantasy: Apple computers aren't overpriced

[jellomizer]

I would suggest that you price any other companies computer Spec for Spec It doesn't matter if you think the spec is important to you or not. (including Size, Weight, Dimensions, Video Camera,Keyboard type...), in general try to custom build the Mac Model. You will find the price of the Mac, will be about the same price as the competitors.
That said. Apple has a limited line and there are a lot of gaps for what people want in a computer, So the Apple may not be the best value for them. But as for its price their prices are competitive. (Don't include home built boxes, as you rarely add your labor to the price, and you pay for just the parts)

Re:Fantasy: Apple computers aren't overpriced

[risinganger]

imo there is a certain amount of truth to that but generally only at a products release or update. Apple don't tend to change prices unlike many others (take Dell for example), so while I tend to agree that the cost difference between different companies isn't great, it does tend to grow in favour of other companies the longer Apple leaves a product update.

Re:Fantasy: Apple computers aren't overpriced

[Lars T.]

imo there is a certain amount of truth to that but generally only at a products release or update. Apple don't tend to change prices unlike many others (take Dell for example)

Of course the times Apple has lowered prices, people were in a rage that they did (because they "just" bought one 2 months ago).

Re:Fantasy: Apple computers aren't overpriced

[A nonymous Coward]

I tend to think you tend to overuse "tend", but that's just a human tendency after all, and I myself tend to follow in many human tendencies after all.

But after all is said and done, I tend to understand you after all.

Re:Fantasy: Apple computers aren't overpriced

[drsmithy]

I would suggest that you price any other companies computer Spec for Spec It doesn't matter if you think the spec is important to you or not. (including Size, Weight, Dimensions, Video Camera,Keyboard type...), in general try to custom build the Mac Model. You will find the price of the Mac, will be about the same price as the competitors.

Of course, this places disproportionate value on certain things that are very uncommon outside of Apple. Like, for example, form factor.

However, for example, if all you want is a minimum buy-in point, then a PCs with roughly twice the hardware resources of a Mac Mini costs only a bit more than half as much, and a PC with only marginally less power than an 8-core Mac Pro costs _less_ than half as much.

If your primary interest is in what the computer does, rather than what it looks like, then nearly all desktop Macs are embarassingly overpriced (the laptops are harder to call).

Re:Fantasy: Apple computers aren't overpriced

[vux984]

You will find the price of the Mac, will be about the same price as the competitors.

Essentially true for the base model, when they are launched. And then it goes down hill, because the Apple specs are practically obsolete before its updated, and then on top of that, they grossly overcharge for upgrades.

For example, Take a look at the base 24" iMac. It comes with 2GB of RAM... it costs $150 to go to 4GB. You can easily buy 4GB outright for LESS than it costs to get an extra 2GB from Apple.

Another example... Hard drive... it starts with a 320GB HD. They want $300 to upgrade to a 1TB drive. You can get a 1TB for $100-150 outright. With Apple its $300 and that's on top of whatever they valued the 320GB at.

Yet another example... $150 to upgrade to a 8800GS? What the fuck? A 9800GT is $130.00 outright for crying out loud, and is a much stronger card. And they want $150 to UPGRADE to an 8800GS?

Ok... its an all in one... so sure, maybe the video card is a bit trickier... I get why a 9800GT might not be an option. But I shouldn't have to pay $150 to upgrade to an 8800GS. $50 over an HD2600pro, tops.

Apple gouges on upgrades 'nuff said.

So how about an actual product comparison:

Apple 24" 3.06 vs Dell XPS 24"
bluetooth on both
gigabit on both
built in camera - 1.3MP vs 2MP
built in mic - on both
wifi - apple gives you b/g, dell b/g/n
4GB ram on both (apple upgrade / dell default)
750GB drive on both (apple upgrade / dell default)
24" screen - lets assume they are equal - who knows
built in speakers - lets assume they are equal
optical - dvdrw vs bluray
cpu - cor2duo in the apple, dell gives you a quad
video - 8800GS 512MB vs 9600M GT 512MB - i think the dell's is better
os - osx vs vista ultimate

Ok... so the dell all-in-one is equal or better in each spec, how about price:

iMac 2449.00 vs 2199.00 [ dell XPS one 24 (product)red ]

so its $250 less, comes with a quad core, blu ray, wireless n, better video card, and a better camera.

Oh, and the dell has a TV tuner too.

Dell win hands down. Not even a contest. Apple's not in the ballpark.

Worse if we can drop the 'product (red)' thing, which drops the bluray drive, and gives us vista home premium, the dell is $1899, still markedly better than the Apple, and now $550 less.

Maybe not all Apple's are overpriced... but this one, at least IS.

Re:Fantasy: Apple computers aren't overpriced

[guruevi]

Still, I work in research environment and I find it impossible to find an 8-core Xeon on par with the current Mac Pro for less than the Apple price and that thing is almost a year old. Yeah, I can find it in a 4-core or 8-core desktop CPU (ECC is kinda important if you're running large computations over several days) and I can find it in several older CPU's but then they don't support enough PCIe or multiple hard drives. And then there is an extra surcharge for 64-bit Windows.

Re:Fantasy: Apple computers aren't overpriced

[RedK]

The iMac 24" comes with an S-IPS panel screen. Your Dell comes with a cheap TN Film. There's your price differential right there. It's also nice you falsely claimed the Mac didn't have 802.11n and got modded up anyway.

Re:Fantasy: Apple computers aren't overpriced

[RedK]

The 2407WFP and more recent 2408WFP use PVA panels from Samsung, which are cheaper than S-IPS panels. This also isn't the norm, as their consumer screens are all TN Film, and they make a point to say PVA or IPS when a screen uses those panel types, which they don't for the XP 24". The specs on the Dell are actually very awful, or very wrong (I'm guessing wrong). Directly from their site: Wide Viewing Angle (up to 89 degrees). What does that even mean, is it horizontal or vertical ? Even they don't use that notation on their monitors. 90 degrees means not even 45 degrees each side in the usual notation. So before saying people are WRONG capitalized, maybe you should actually try to know about the product you're trying to push.

Another thing, the Dell is made of cheap plastic, the iMac is made of glass and Aluminium. You're going to contradict that too ?

Re:Fantasy: Apple computers aren't overpriced

[Fred_A]

For example, Take a look at the base 24" iMac. [ ... ]

Nobody bloody cares. People who want a Mac get a Mac, people who want something else get something else. It's all out there in the stores. Nobody's forcing anyone.

And Sony laptops are overpriced too. It's a scandal. What's the government doing about it ?

Steve Jobs is Dead!

[eldavojohn]

After signing a contract with Michael Jackson to put the entire Beatles catalog on iTunes, he picked up his iPhone Nano to call Jay Z and confirm that he would be starting a record label with the rapper. At the same time he was trying to multi-task and he hit "send" on an e-mail firing Justin Lang from the "I'm a Mac" commercials on his $800 MacBook Pro. At that point he accidentally swallowed his iPhone Nano, choked on it and died.

The scariest part? Watch the stock fluctuate to each of those headlines.

Just compare against this handy list

[Xest]

Apple products overview
=======================
Pros:
- It looks cool
- It sounds cool
- It probably smells cool
- It probably even tastes cool

Cons:
- It's expensive
- It lacks features initially

Any rumour about an Apple product where the details of the rumour fall outside this list is false.

Clue:

[NoTheory]

Consumers don't care about apple rumors. They can't buy rumors.

The only care about what products are available. Only fanbois and panicky investors care about rumors (normal investors should be in it for the long haul anyway).

Sort of an interesting read on why we should ignore mac rumors (and mind you i own 4 macs in my house and use them for dev, so i love 'em just as much as anyone), but otherwise a pretty pointless piece of reading.

I guess it's still better than idle.

Sometimes the truth sucks

[Shivetya]

but Apple's use of Intel chips and similar chip sets validated the comparisons. Outside of OS X what we have is cutting edge cases: packaging. Apple is the mastery of packaging and marketing. Throw in a long standing and in some cases deserved following and the die is set.

That isn't to say there is some value in packaging. Yet this what happens is that there is this great disconnect. I follow and post to various mac forums (being an owner on an iMac and two iPods does let me get away with it) where the same people who one day berate Alienware (insert name of any PC specialty maker) for charging high prices for essentially fancy cased machines will drag you into the dirt arguing why the case on the new "mac xxx" is so revolutionary that it deserves exception.

The primary problem is that too many in the Mac community still fail to recognize that Apple isn't just about computers. They go out of their way to ignore the boards on the site dedicated to the iPhone and Touch. Yet from those products one can see why much of the Mac hardware is what it is. Is Apple big enough to create a multitude of products for both the Mac enthusiast and the music/phone consumer? Considering the state of Mac I think they aren't. While I laud them on continued extension of OS X I am really annoyed at the hardware I am forced to run it on. Apple goes to no end to stomp anyone trying to use their hardware or software in ways they don't approve yet at the same time refuse to fill the void that is being called out by these upstarts.

Apple put themselves into the same position IBM was in, they have a common hardware platform in Mac with the rest of the PC world. Their market is ripe for a competitor. It is only a matter of time before one surfaces who doesn't just back down. Apple's reaction will be interesting once OS X cannot be held to just Apple made computers. Frankly they should license it to very specific ranges on computers to fill the void in their product line they refuse to fill themselves. Create a system of "OX X" certified with real enforcement. Will it happen, no but it is nice to dream.

Macs are like Harley Davidson, only a fool buys them new. Get them used and save yourself the expense. Exploit the irrational expectations that some of the community have for having to have the newest item, this years new case. You will get a good machine and have the very same experience except you can look at your bank account and feel good about it.

Re:Sometimes the truth sucks

[necro81]

Outside of OS X what we have is cutting edge cases: packaging. Apple is the mastery of packaging and marketing

you say that like it's nothing?

Re:Sometimes the truth sucks

[Phroggy]

Macs are like Harley Davidson, only a fool buys them new. Get them used and save yourself the expense.

As someone else pointed out, second-hand Macs tend to be expensive. I definitely recommend checking out the available options (the Clearance section on the Apple Store web site is great, and PowerMax is a reliable seller of used Apple products) but buying new is often a better option. I'm typing this on an iBook I bought used from a friend who was upgrading to a MBP, but the other three Macs I've owned were all new, and the older used models that were available at the time would not have been good options for me.

We've finally reached the point where Core2Duo-based Macs are fast enough that even the used ones are quite usable, but CPU speed has long been a frustrating problem.

New Macs ship with the latest OS for no extra charge, which often has vast improvements over the previous version, and consumer-grade Macs ship with iLife as well. Upgrading the OS and installing iLife on a used Mac will add $208 to the price tag. If you don't need those features, then going used may be a better option for you. New hardware features can be nice too - I love the new buttonless trackpad on the new Macbooks.

Re:Sometimes the truth sucks

[Falconhell]

Yeh, we know mac users prefer style over substance, that is a given.

This was a whole lot easier

[grapeape]

This was a whole lot easier before The Woz joined Dancing with the Stars, now it seems the reality line has blurred.

Missing: If Rob Enderle says it...

[Anonymous Coward]

...it's wrong.

iPhone clamshell!!!

[Xtravar]

I hope the rumor about the clam shell iPhone is true... I want an iPhone (mainly for work reasons), but having a bare screen on an expensive device is kinda like... not wearing a jock strap while playing football.

Forgot the most important one

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

Any rumour about Apple opening up OS/X for use on generic PCs, is ALWAYS false.

Wanting will not make it so. Repeat after me:
Apple is a hardware company.
Apple is a hardware company.
Apple is a hardware company.
Apple is a hardware company.

Keep repeating until you figure out why they will not sell you OS/X for your white box PC.

B/G/N

[daveywest]

All current Intel Macs include the 802.11n (draft) enabled as a default.