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Abraham Lincoln the Early Adopter

Hugh Pickens writes "On the 200th anniversary of his birth, President Abraham Lincoln's popular image as a log-splitting bumpkin is being re-assessed as historians have discovered that Lincoln had an avid interest in cutting-edge technology and its applications. During the war, Lincoln haunted the telegraph office (which provided the instant-messaging of its day) for the latest news from the front; he encouraged weapons development and even tested some new rifles himself on the White House lawn; and he is the only US president to hold a patent (No. 6469, granted May 22, 1849). It was for a device to lift riverboats over shoals. 'He not only created his own invention but had ideas for other inventions, such as an agricultural steam plow and a naval steam ram, [and] was fascinated by patent cases as an attorney and also by new innovations during the Civil War,' says Jason Emerson, author of Lincoln the Inventor. But Lincoln's greatest contribution to the war effort was his use of the telegraph. When Lincoln took office the White House had no telegraph connection. Lincoln 'developed the modern electronic leadership model, says Tom Wheeler, author of Mr. Lincoln's T-Mails: The Untold Story of How Abraham Lincoln Used the Telegraph To Win the Civil War. At a time when electricity was a vague scientific concept and sending signals through wires was 'mind boggling,' Lincoln was fascinated by the telegraph and developed it into a political and military tool that allowed him to project himself to the front to monitor and track what was going on. 'If he were alive today, we'd call him an early adopter,' says Wheeler."

68 of 261 comments (clear)

  1. No... by zackhugh · · Score: 5, Funny

    If he was alive today, we'd call him a zombie...

    1. Re:No... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      if he was alive, i don't see how he could be undead as well.

    2. Re:No... by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or a really powerful Jedi. For all you Robot Chicken fans out there.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    3. Re:No... by DittoBox · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. Zombies are undead. Please hand in your geek card.

      --
      Good. Cheap. Fast. Pick Two.
    4. Re:No... by Timosch · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, we'd call him a patent troll.
      SCNR

    5. Re:No... by MadUndergrad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If he were alive, we'd applaud him on his undoubtedly correct use of the subjunctive voice.

    6. Re:No... by Maestro485 · · Score: 2, Funny

      So John Wilkes Booth was actually a hero?

      *head explodes* (figuratively)

    7. Re:No... by RancidPeanutOil · · Score: 2, Funny

      I believe the correct form of the reply would be:

      If he were alive today, he would be screaming, "let me out of this box!"

  2. sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the telegraph office (which provided the instant-messaging of its day)

    Why always the painfully stupid condescension?

    Communicating science (or history) well to a general audience doesn't require this. See Carl Sagan. If anything, such unnecessary analogies make things *less* clear.

  3. Another tick by Dr.+Eggman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Another positive tick towards my overarching theory: If knowledge is power, then communication is both your greatest weapon and your most vital line of supplies.

    --
    Demented But Determined.
  4. Don't forget Tom by Renegade+Iconoclast · · Score: 5, Interesting

    http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/bljefferson.htm

    Jefferson was a tinkerer who realized that every design could be improved. The same mind he dedicated to helping to create our novel system of government, he applied to physical science.

  5. Though the names change... by DerekLyons · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When Lincoln took office the White House had no telegraph connection. Lincoln 'developed the modern electronic leadership model'
     
    Is that what kids are calling it nowadays? I must be out of date - I was raised to call it micromanagement.

    1. Re:Though the names change... by GaryOlson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Technology allows an even greater ability to micromanage; but does not necessarily imply micromanagement. Faster communications technology can make it possible for the logistics elements to shift behind the scene to better support the front line. Equally well, better technology can give the front line information to modify their plans/actions to prepare for the consequences of out-of-theater actions which will have a definitive impact.

      Micromanagement is a meme attached to people -- not technology.

      --
      Every mans' island needs an ocean; choose your ocean carefully.
    2. Re:Though the names change... by Ihmhi · · Score: 5, Funny

      Micromanagement is a meme attached to StarCraft.

      Fixed.

  6. Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by religious+freak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    President Abraham Lincoln's popular image as a log-splitting bumpkin is being re-assessed

    I doubt any serious Lincoln scholar would ever say Lincoln was a "log-splitting bumpkin". He was a brilliant, self educated man with a ferocious curiosity and probably one of the highest IQs of any president we've ever had. The guy who managed to end slavery, preserve the Union, AND assist in ushering in modern medical techniques on the battlefield a log-splitting bumpkin? Yeah, sure.

    It's been said that because he was such a deep and complex personality, our society sees Lincoln not necessarily as who he was, but he is a reflection of our current state of mind as a nation. When we began to focus on racial issues, he was an obvious focal point, when depression became more widely known, he was thought to have been depressed, gay rights bring him up as possibly being our first gay president... and slashdot calls him an early adopter.

    He was probably our greatest American president ever.

    --
    If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
    1. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by tjstork · · Score: 2, Informative

      He was probably our greatest American president ever

      Very much so, and he was a hell of a killer too. As a percentage of population, Lincoln killed more Americans than all the rest of the US Presidents combined and by a fairly wide margin.

      If we went by percentage of population in casualties, the Civil War, if fought today, would result in almost 7 million dead. If there were slaves in the South today, there would be more than a few people that might suggest that such titanic destruction is not worth it.

      Even in absolute terms, there were casualties at one civil war battle, Antienam, than there have been in Iraq for the entire war, and Lincoln just kept right on rolling with the war.

      --
      This is my sig.
    2. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2, Informative

      Lincoln did not end slavery, not even in the U.S. (Nixon did that, when he ended the draft). His public actions against slavery applied only to states over which he had no control, as any honest historian will tell you.

      Lincoln introduced an income tax, suspended habeus corpus, and viciously supressed freedom of speech and assembly.

      By insisting upon preserving the union, he caused the deaths of more North Americans than any president to this very day.

      After the suppression of Shay's Rebellion (1787) and the Whisky Rebellion (1794), Lincoln's Civil War is the most significant advance of big government over freedom in our history.

      The greatest American President ever? Hah! People should spit at his memory.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    3. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by zullnero · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Log splitting thing was campaign fluff at the time. Back in the old days, populism got you elected. If he ran on the campaign that he was a geeky lawyer, he would have been laughed out of politics in those days.

    4. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by Flavio · · Score: 2, Informative

      Exactly.

      The United States holds the distinction of being the only country where a civil war was tied to the issue of slavery. To put matters in perspective, it would've been cheaper to buy all the slaves and a fair amount of land for them than to pay for the civil war.

      The twisted notion that Lincoln's civil war was an act of brilliance stinks of indoctrination.

    5. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by johanatan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you think that if the slaves were purchased that way, it would've ended slavery? Wouldn't the South have just brought more slaves in to replace the old?

    6. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >>>Back in the old days, populism got you elected.

      Nothing's changed.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by Flavio · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you think that if the slaves were purchased that way, it would've ended slavery? Wouldn't the South have just brought more slaves in to replace the old?

      Of course the South would've brought more slaves.

      My point is that the war was so expensive that even buying the slaves and land for their families would've been cheaper. I never claimed this was a practical solution. If I had to propose a solution, it would involve not provoking the South with tariffs which essentially amounted to commercial blockades, and avoiding a war altogether.

      Americans are taught that the US civil war was about freeing the slaves, when in fact the slaves were only an aspect of a larger economic dispute.

    8. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by religious+freak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, no. That why I put the qualifiers "probably" and "one of the" in there... so you caught me. I base my statement off of my own readings and studies of Lincoln, which are not up to a scholarship level, just casual. But at least a couple of the scholars I've read or listened to have said he was among the brightest of any US president.

      So in terms of hard, scientific validity, there is no basis for that statement - just a subjective assessment of him by myself, and of the true Lincoln scholars.

      If you're to believe this link (which I don't), he was NOT among the very brightest, but I think these folks are just guessing as much as I am; they just put a few more numbers behind it.

      However, I personally still believe the statement I made to be true, given the qualifiers I put around it. Lincoln was undeniably an intelligent person, and despite what some of the cave dweller respondents to my comment have to say about him "destroying civil liberties", or whatever, navigating a civil war, preserving the Union, etc, etc, was not an easy task. Add to that his clear and insatiable curiosity to learn and explore above other presidents, and I think there is a pretty reasonable preponderance of evidence for the statement I made. But that is just my own subjective conclusion.

      --
      If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
    9. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He was probably our greatest American president ever

      Very much so, and he was a hell of a killer too. As a percentage of population, Lincoln killed more Americans than all the rest of the US Presidents combined and by a fairly wide margin.

      If you make that assertion because you think he was responsible for the entire war, think again. The hotheads in the south who seceded before he even took the oath of office, and the even hotter heads in South Carolina who started the fighting -- those are the idiots who started the war.

      The south is especialy culpable because 50 years before during the War of 1812, when the New England states tried to open negotitations with the national government on seceding, the south was foremost in calling it treason. 50 years later they decided treason was perfectly fine.

    10. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by religious+freak · · Score: 2, Funny

      Funny story: I thought I did, but it turned out to just be a really weird Amish dude. I finally figured it out when Lincoln didn't even know how to use a button. Gay Lincoln marriage... what a waste of 15 years... but thanks for the suggestion.

      --
      If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
    11. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by pcolaman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I never insisted that the Union was interested in defending the Constitution. I insisted (correctly) that the Southern States were in violation of the Constitution. Two completely different beasts there. Regardless of the intent of the North (rarely are events in history black or white, there are always shades of gray and often times the victor writes history and portrays themselves as faultless), there is no question whatsoever that the South was not in any way in the right, so to speak.

    12. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by johnsonav · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So did Davis. What's your point?

      Just to play devil's advocate...

      If the Union would have stopped fighting, the Confederacy probably would have too. The rebels had no desire to conquer the North, and would have been satisfied with a "two-state" solution.

      If the Confederates would have unilaterally stopped fighting, the Union wouldn't have stopped until they had forced the rebel states back into the Union.

      The Confederacy was fighting for its existence. The Union was fighting a war of conquest. I think that's a pretty big difference.

      --
      ... and that's when the C.H.U.D.'s came at me.
    13. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by tjstork · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Confederacy was fighting for its existence. The Union was fighting a war of conquest. I think that's a pretty big difference.

      The point is that the Civil War shows that there are some causes which justify imperialism. Invading another country because we do not like it s political system is not automatically wrong. If a people are kept in bondage, or face extermination, then, history will well judge more favorably the man who sets them free, as much as it will forget the man who ignored him.

      Like it or not, the closest test we will have to the era of the Civil War is the term of George Bush. Like Lincoln, Bush essentially trumped up charges, lied, in an effort to get blanket powers to prosecute his war. Like Lincoln, Bush suspended some liberties to do so. Like Lincoln, Bush was constantly undermined by not only his political opposition but by generals who did not view the war in the same moral terms and did not genuinely want to fight it. Both were crucified in the media and both were faced with political opposition that strongly argued that the cause of freedom did not justify the war.

      There are of course a lot of differences too. Lincoln was very much a hands on President, continually replacing his generals, visiting his soldiers often in the field, actively seeking out and reviewing any sort of weapon's system to help win the war. Bush did none of that, and that hands off approach by Bush tellingly betrays a lack of personal confidence masked by his Texas bluster, whereas Lincoln, although battling depression lifelong, always could trust his own instincts in times of crisis, in ways that Bush could not. And, Lincoln too, although he did not live to fufill it, had a vision for the post-war that Bush simply lacked. Lincoln fought a war not only to end slavery, but to build a new kind of united states, whereas Bush did not ever really think beyond the concept of eliminating a dictator.

      --
      This is my sig.
    14. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by osu-neko · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...he once was remarked that he did not care if slavery ended or continued.

      Absolutely false.

      "If freeing the slaves would preserve the Union, I would do it. If keeping slavery would preserve the Union, I would do that." (Source: CBS News Morning show, this past Thursday)

      Okay, you've quoted something that establishes he valued preserving the Union over ending slavery. Now where's this quote that would establish he did not care if slavery ended or continued?

      Lincoln was an abolitionist. He was a notorious abolitionist. So much so that southern states started seceding before he even took office. To suggest he didn't care if slavery ended or continued flies in the face of the facts. He cared very much. He just cared for the Union even more.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    15. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by osu-neko · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Booth was willing to die for what he felt was an attack on his country.

      If Booth was willing to die to prevent an attack on his country, that would make him patriotic. OTOH, being willing to die in an act of revenge just makes you an asshat...

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    16. Re:Log-splitting bumpkin, huh? by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      New to this world? Never heard anyone speak of any organization's institutional history or memory? Playing dumb because using your brain is too much work?

  7. Lincoln was a gay, wait no he was a nerd. by King_of_Mars · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This looks like another incarnation of the "Lincoln was _______" phenomena. Apparently Lincoln was so awesome that he has to embody every singly significant idea or social event since his death.

  8. Re:he also used the word nigger a lot by jessica_alba · · Score: 3, Insightful

    he held racist views, but he also said of black persons "but in the right to eat the bread without leave of anybody else which his own hand earns, he is my equal" in other words, he didn't let his prejudice get in the way of policy.

  9. Attention! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Lincoln held opinions not very different from those of the majority of his racist countrymen. Even if slavery was wrong, "there is a physical difference between the white and black races that will for ever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality." His solution was a form of ethnic cleansing: shipping blacks off to Liberia, or Haiti, or Central America â" anywhere as long as it wasnâ(TM)t the United States.

    Lincoln's views may have started to change once he saw how bravely black troops fought for the Union cause, but even at the time of his death, he was willing to leave the fate of emancipated slaves in the hands of bigoted state legislators. "Whether Lincoln ever went beyond being an anti-slavery white supremacist," George Fredrickson writes, "is a question that is difficult to resolve."

    So should we tear down his memorial on the National Mall? The answer to this question may surprise you.

    1. Re:Attention! by Kokuyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "there is a physical difference between the white and black races that will for ever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality."

      Looking at the western world today,I'm not quite sure whether he wasn't actually right... I see no social and political equality.

      The US now has a black president. That is cool and all, but looking back at how much his blackness was hyped in the media all around the world...

      Mind, I'm not judging whether it's a bad thing or a good thing... I'm just observing.

    2. Re:Attention! by phosphorylate+this · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You see no social equality because people of eropean-decendent have done a mediocre job of trying to bring it about. While on the other side of the equation people of African decent are trying to jump up 1000-years of technological development with all the historical power-imbalences that entails.

      Think about how HUGE social differences were - 200 years ago every black man in America was a slave, think on the sheer brutality that implies. In the 1960's (within living memory) seggregation was an established part of much of American society. When slavery was abolished it's not like education or skilled-jobs suddenly jumped into black communities, these things take generations to nuture from parent to child.

      Any "physical differences" between races are at most 3rd or 4th order effects. My guess is it wil take a 100 years or more before social equality has advanced to the point where being black and in power in AMERICA is not noteworthy let alone the rest of the world. You've just elected your first black president - celebrate man this is how progress is made, and how we make up for the misdeeds and ill-gotten gains of pyshcopathic forefathers (on every side).
       

    3. Re:Attention! by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Informative

      200 years ago every black man in America was a slave, think on the sheer brutality that implies.

      Untrue. There were half a million free blacks living in the US at the beginning of the Civil War. "200 years ago", 14% of the black population was free.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    4. Re:Attention! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Maybe someone needs to go back to Math class. 2009 - 200 is 1809 which is also 200 years since Lincoln was born and not the start of the American Civil War. Also if you reread the article you linked you'd realize that the statistics say African Americans made up 14% of the overall population and 11% of those were free if you do the math.

      Now if you ignore all your errors how many opportunities were available to "freemen" in 1861? They had to fight and die on the side of the Union, (which despite not having slavery at the time) which had basically treated them like 2nd class citizens, to even gain any sort of recognition of being remotely honored.

    5. Re:Attention! by flewp · · Score: 3, Interesting
      You criticize the post above you containing errors, so it's only fair you take a closer look at the facts in your own post.

      how many opportunities were available to "freemen" in 1861? They had to fight and die on the side of the Union, (which despite not having slavery at the time)

      The Union did have slavery in 1861. Slavery had been outlawed in some Union states for some time, but Maryland, Missouri, Delaware, and Kentucky were all slave states. And despite common belief, the Emancipation Proclamation (which did became effective Jan 1st 1863) did not outright outlaw slavery. It only addressed slavery in the Confederacy. Slavery was not actually abolished nation-wide until the 13th Amendment in late 1865.

      --
      WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
    6. Re:Attention! by Kaboom13 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Please. Even ardent abolitionists of the era would be considered racist by today's standards. Lincoln would have been raised and taught by both the scientists and the clergy of the day that blacks were inherently inferior, incapable of existing in civilized society without the firm guidance of whites. It's not fair to single him out and apply today's standards and expect him to measure up. You can't argue that he was considerably more progressive on the issue then most of his peers. Like all politicians, his actions and public words would be 5% rooted in his personal beliefs of right and wrong and 95% in the political reality of what he could actually hope to achieve. Ending slavery was a first step in a process that is still going on today. You can't change an entire society in a lifetime, especially when its cut short by an asassin.

  10. First post: What hath god wrought! by Steve1952 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Given that the telegraph should be considered the true precursor of the internet, I recommend that Lincoln be given the honorary Slashdot number of "0".

    *** "What hath god wrought" is considered to be the first documented telegraph message.

  11. The only president with a patent? Not true, unless by LittleBigScript · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...unless you read the wikipedia on Thomas Jefferson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson
    There are none of Thomas Jefferson's patents on the page. In fact it doesn't even mention his involvement in the patent act of 1790, http://etext.virginia.edu/journals/EH/EH40/walter40.html

    He invented a Moldboard Plow Of Least Resistance, Wheel Cipher, Portable Copying Press, and an improved polygraph for copying handwritten text.
    http://cti.itc.virginia.edu/~meg3c/classes/tcc313/200Rprojs/jefferson_invent/invent.html

  12. Re:Yeah, he set the stage for modern America by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've seen plenty of liberals defend him as saying that he wanted to "protect them", which is just as sensible as saying Hitler wanted to protect the Jews.

    In all fairness, I don't recall FDR having Japanese Americans killed.

    But yes, we tend to forget the negative or parts. It turns out that Lincon was pretty big on racism, told racist jokes about blacks, thought that interracial marriage was wrong, and that whites were the better race, all this despite believing that slavery was morally wrong. But here's the catch, if he wasn't still a racist, he wouldn't have been elected because the idea that the races really are equal would be considered far too radical.

  13. At last! by hcoal · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is 1863 the year of the Linux desktop?

    1. Re:At last! by Potor · · Score: 3, Funny

      you mean the Linux logtop.

    2. Re:At last! by mangu · · Score: 3, Funny

      you mean the Linux logtop.

      Yes, I think you're right:

      ls /var/log/*.log
      /var/log/apport.log /var/log/kdm.log /var/log/scrollkeeper.log
      /var/log/auth.log /var/log/kern.log /var/log/user.log
      /var/log/bootstrap.log /var/log/lpr.log /var/log/uucp.log
      /var/log/daemon.log /var/log/mail.log /var/log/wvdialconf.log
      /var/log/dpkg.log /var/log/pycentral.log /var/log/Xorg.0.log
      /var/log/fontconfig.log /var/log/rkhunter.log /var/log/Xorg.10.log

  14. not very different eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    "It is also unsatisfactory to some that the elective franchise is not given to the colored man. I would myself prefer that it were now conferred on the very intelligent, and on those who serve our cause as soldiers." -- 4 days before he was assassinated
    I myself, would have gone a step further and stripped the right from the very stupid (joe six-packs)

  15. If he was alive today he'd be busted... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...for possession of marijuana and drug paraphernalia. He even wrote a letter to the Hohner Harmonica company stating how he loved to sit on his porch, smoking "sweet hemp" from a corncob pipe and playing his harmonica. He very likely smoked it even while in the Whitehouse, or on or about the Whitehouse grounds, since hemp smoking was rather commonplace in the mid-1800's.

  16. Re:he also used the word nigger a lot by Loadmaster · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, but really all those white people in the church are all played by Eddie Murphy.

    http://www.hulu.com/watch/10356/saturday-night-live-white-like-me

  17. Re:Yeah, he set the stage for modern America by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Interesting

    >>>In all fairness, I don't recall FDR having Japanese Americans killed.

    "Some Japanese Americans died in the camps due to inadequate medical care and the emotional stresses they encountered. Several were killed by military guards for allegedly resisting orders." "These Japanese Americans, half of whom were children, were incarcerated for up to 4 years, without due process of law or any factual basis, in bleak, remote camps surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards."

    FDR also arrested white Americans who stood in his way - the most famous one being Henry Ford (for not complying with the NRA's price minimums), but Ford could hire enough lawyers to persuade FDR to drop the case. Others were not so fortunate. FDR was a dark, dark man and now historians digging through the archives are just now discovering how dark he was.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  18. Re:The only president with a patent? Not true, unl by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There was no such thing as conflict of interest back then. The real reason Jefferson did not patent is likely the same reason inventor Benjamin Franklin did not patent. They chose to share their ideas for the benefit of all - what we would call public domain. Franklin was already the wealthiest man in America, so he didn't need the cash.

    And Jefferson was very very poor, the equivalent of $100,000 in debt in today's terms, but he still preferred to give things away. Jefferson's personal library was donated as the foundation for the Second Library of Congress. (The first was burned to the ground by the British.)

     

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  19. Parent is NOT a troll by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The parent post certainly expresses what we today consider racist opinions, but they are what Lincoln thought, they are a direct response to its parent post, and it is not a troll.

    Mods -- just because history is racist does not make reports on history racist.

  20. Re:he also used the word nigger a lot by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Informative

    P.S. I just reviewed the video again. I did see ONE white face. Still not a "large amount" as the grandparent falsely claimed. Check it out for ye self. Listen to the hate speech (and yes that is the proper term): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwQWuQVE6sw

    "Can't we all just...get along?"

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  21. Re:Yeah, he set the stage for modern America by gyrogeerloose · · Score: 2, Informative

    By declaring martial law and throwing a lot of the Constitution (Habeas Corpus, for instance) out the window

    That's not quite correct. Check out Article I, Section 9, paragraph 2 of the U.S. Constitution:

    "The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it."

    I think the Civil War could accurately be considered a case of rebellion.

    --
    This ain't rocket surgery.
  22. Re:First post: What hath god wrought! by pcolaman · · Score: 2

    What in the hell do Republicans have to do with your post? And Obama is just one in a long line of presidents who adopt something that's maybe on the cutting edge (Bush or Clinton at the end of his career adopting a blackberry would've been more cutting edge as they came out in 99). This is similar to presidents that have had plumbing, electricity, etc, installed. And I'm curious, are Republi-nazis similar to Left-wing Hate-Mongers? I love how hypocritical liberals are. Republicans are Nazis, but Liberals are just misunderstood. Yeah, like Nancy Pelosi, who is the worst Speaker of the House the Congress has ever had, hands down.

  23. Re:Mod parent up by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Interesting

    >>>Telegraph, optical, electronic or otherwise, doesn't really have an equivalent today, because it had a ridiculously low bandwidth and slower transmission times.

    The average telegraph could be transmitted at 30 words per minute (55 for exceptionally fast telegraphers). That's equivalent to a 2400 bit/s modem. Not bad for nearly 200 year old technology. It's faster than you can type an IM into your cellphone.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  24. Re:he also used the word nigger a lot by eharvill · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Agreed. I hate the fact that my 93 year old grandfather still uses that term (he grew up in middle Georgia), but as you said it was more of a descriptive term and not an insult. At some point it used to be acceptable to use the term "colored" as well. Not sure when all that changed. Now only black people can call each other the "N" word. Boggles the mind...

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    At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend I don't care that you're not here with me
  25. Re:he also used the word nigger a lot by gnick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At some point it used to be acceptable to use the term "colored" as well. Not sure when all that changed.

    It occurs to me as strange every time I hear the letters "NAACP". I understand that it would have been strange to re-name the org "NAAAAP" when the P.C. terms shifted from "colored" to "African American", but I think that's the only remaining place where the term "colored" is still appropriate when referring to race...

    (As a side note, there are a few interesting scenes in Steven King's dark tower series where a "modern" white guy is conversing with a black woman from a few decades back. As would likely be the case, she's very upset when he calls her "black" and insists on the term colored, making him somewhat uncomfortable.)

    What does all this have to do with Lincoln being an early adopter of tech again?

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    He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  26. we'd call him an early adopter? by nurb432 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Personally I would call him 'Mr President'.

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    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  27. Re:he also used the word nigger a lot by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Funny

    If Obama's church were so hostile towards whites, it wouldn't have a fairly large amount of whites in attendance every Sunday.

    You've never seen the legions of white kids who listen to Public Enemy, have you?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  28. Re:Yeah, he set the stage for modern America by transporter_ii · · Score: 2

    That made me laugh out loud. But seriously, that is not how the early states saw it. Many states left a way out when they signed on. Here are two:

    -=-=-=-=

    The delegates for the state of Virginia, in their ratification statement, expressed clearly the right of secession when they wrote: "We the delegates of the people of Virginia, duly elected...do, in the name and behalf of the people of Virginia, declare and make known, that the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the people of the United States, may be resumed by them, whenever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression." That's pretty straighforward.

    New York's ratification statement said much the same: "That the powers of government may be resumed by the people, whensover it shall become necessary to their happiness; that every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not, by the said Constitution, delegated to the Congress of the United States, or the departments thereof, remains to the people of the several states, or to their respective State government

    -=-=-=-=

    I believe Texas, Alaska, and many other states had something similar in writing or in their state Constitution. But the key word there is "believe," because I'm not sure exactly how many it was. But clearly, not many assumed it was a one way street.

    transporter_ii

    --
    Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
  29. Lincoln and Bush by tjstork · · Score: 3, Insightful

    he hotheads in the south who seceded before he even took the oath of office, and the even hotter heads in South Carolina who started the fighting -- those are the idiots who started the war.

    My question is this: why is it treason for a state to want to secede? I mean, it's a shitty thing, but, if the elected leaders of a state wanted to secede, then wouldn't it make the USA a sort of an empire to trample that state into remaining in the union?

    As far as Fort Sumter goes, Lincoln was given the choice of removing the troops and letting the South have the base. He told, rightly, the south to go pound sand and organized a relief mission of the fort and a federal blockade instead.

    The fact of the matter is this, the Civil War was a blatant act of imperialism by the north, upon the south, a war that was pushed into all of its horrors by Abraham Lincoln, and he was right to do it. The great lesson of the civil war is that there are times when sovereignty must be set aside for a greater good, and that some imperialism is justifiable.

    IT was right for Abraham Lincoln to destroy the South and end slavery, and, if anyone is like the Lincoln of our day, it may well be that it was right for George Bush to invade Iraq and destroy the Baath Party.

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    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Lincoln and Bush by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why is secession wrong?

      It gave each state a veto over all federal legislation, indeed over every other state's own internal legislation. If any state didn't like what the federal government or any other state government was doing, it could threaten to secede.

      One of the main arguments for secession was by South Carolina. They didn't like the high tariffs imposed by the majority, claimed that every individual state had the power to veto federal legislation, and threatened to secede if tariffs were enforced in South Carolina. There was a nasty undercurrent to this. The main source of income for the federal government of the time was tariffs. Part of South Carolina's plan was to force a small ineffective federal government on the rest of the nation by vetoing its income source thruout the nation.

      That's no way to run any organization, let alone a government.

      Look at the original articles of confederation from the 1776 revolution which proved to be so unworkable that they were replaced by the 1789 constitution. One of the main complaints was that the national government had almost no powers of its own, especially taxes. All its revenue came from donations by the individual states. It simply did not work, and the federal government of the 1789 constitution was the preferred result. Secession as threatened by South Carolina would have destroyed that. Secession as practiced by the confederacy did try to destroy the constitution. And the confederacy was just as hypocritical as any bunch of politicians; they put down more than a few rebellions of their own from counties that wanted no part of the war for slavery.

      Secession as proposed by the New England states in 1815 was slightly better -- they wanted negotiations, not outright unilateral secession. But it still would have destroyed the union by imposing a veto on the nation.

    2. Re:Lincoln and Bush by tjstork · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ah, but there is an undercurrent to tariffs as well. The reason that the south hated tarrifs was that they were a protectionist measure designed to protect the northern manufacturers from foreign competition. The south, being primarily agrarian, needed to import its manufactured goods and thus wanted them to be as inexpensive as possible and in the runup to the civil war, the best manufacturer was actually Great Britain.

      But the fact of the matter is, the primary issue for the civil war was slavery. If you read the Confederate Constitution, it is actually almost a word for word copy of the Federal Constitution, but that, owning a slave is a basic civil right (unbelievable as it is), and that, they had a President with a single 6 year term, and a line item veto.

      Interestingly, southern Presidents have actually proposed those two items be on our constitution.

      Jimmy Carter once advocated for a single six year term but handled it so badly that the public walked away with the perception that he was trying to get another two years without having an election (untrue of course). The story of the line item veto is interesting.

      For years, Republicans, sons of the south they are, argued for the line item veto, and, actually helped give it to Bill Clinton, who also a southerner, argued for it and it was the only thing in the Contract with America that he did support.

      Unfortunately, a northern Republican named Rudy Guiliani sued and got the line item veto declared unconstitutional, by a Supreme Court that ruled 6-3 for the Rudy, which support included four justices appointed by conservatives and two genuine conservatives (renquist and thomas).

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      This is my sig.
    3. Re:Lincoln and Bush by TheoMurpse · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Interestingly, southern Presidents have actually proposed those two items be on our constitution.

      It is in the Constitution. It's the 22d Amendment.

      two genuine conservatives (renquist and thomas)

      And are you suggesting Scalia isn't a "true" conservative? How more conservative can you get than an originalist interpretation of the Constitution?

  30. Re:The only president with a patent? Not true, unl by jejones · · Score: 2, Informative

    See http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/winter2000/jefferson.html for info on Jefferson and patents. Note in particular:

    "Jefferson, a strong proponent of equality among all people, was not sure if it was fair or even constitutional to grant what was essentially a monopoly to an inventor, who would then be able to grant the use of his idea only to those who could afford it. His feeling that all should have total access to new technology was one of the reasons he never took out a patent on his own inventions."

  31. Re:Yeah, he set the stage for modern America by TheoMurpse · · Score: 2, Informative

    Why have I never heard of this? My father is full-blooded German and his family has been in the hill country of Texas since the mid-1800s.

    The only prejudice they ever faced was when my grandmother answered a teacher in German instead of English by accident, got laughed at by students, and subsequently swore off ever speaking German again.

    I just googled this, and apparently there was something going on in Kenedy, TX. I don't understand this. My great great uncle was a rancher and full-blooded Kraut in Kenedy, TX, precisely at the time this concentration camp crap supposedly happened. Why have I never heard of this, even within my family who lived in Kenedy at that time?

    A little further reading has revealed that these camps were exclusively for aliens, not citizens of German, etc., descent. A little different from interning Japanese-Americans. Heck, the Geneva Conventions even permit internment of alien residents in time of armed conflict (albeit with some safeguards such as "not even corporal punishment is allowed").

  32. Bullshit by DesScorp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Find some documentation for that quote. It's source is a Huffington Post article praising pot, but the author gives no documentation for it. No one else seems to have a genuine source for it either, all of them circling back to that HuffPuff piece as a reference. Until I see actual proof this quote is genuine, I'm calling it just another Internet urban legend.

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    Life is hard, and the world is cruel