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S3 Graphics Responds About Linux Support

V!NCENT writes "Phoronix has an update on S3's Linux driver state: 'We are doing an internal build of the Chrome 500 Linux driver to incorporate some of the additional hardware features and upgrades (over the Chrome 400 Series GPUs). If you want to test the Linux now, the Chrome 400 Series drivers also support the Chrome 500 Series since it is a unified driver architecture.'" (This after the beef that Phoronix raised about S3's failure to deliver on promises of better Linux support for the 500 series.)

32 of 114 comments (clear)

  1. I bet by jetsci · · Score: 5, Funny

    that this wouldn't fly with Windows. They always get top of the line drivers delivered promptly...

    /jealous

    --
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    1. Re:I bet by Darkness404 · · Score: 5, Informative

      They always get top of the line drivers delivered promptly...

      What version of Windows have you been using? Most Windows drivers are horrible! They require third-party apps to be run in order to use the hardware, frequently install "quick start" or other memory hog applications to be run always in the background, usually break when going from different Windows versions (and sometimes service packs), have little to no maintenance, are a pain to install, impossible to find without the CD or going to a site that seems suspicious, and more often than not are the cause of all Windows crashes.

      Sure, Windows has more third-party drivers than Linux, but Windows drivers are not quality, not at all.

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    2. Re:I bet by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have recently found that ATI doesn't support XP SP3 for their legacy hardware. Try to install it and it claims that there is no compatible hardware.

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      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    3. Re:I bet by GF678 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sure, Windows has more third-party drivers than Linux, but Windows drivers are not quality, not at all.

      God I get really angry sometimes at comments like this. People assume that their own experiences are all that counts.

      My experiences:

      * My Intel X3100 (965GM) graphics chipset runs faster and supports OpenGL 2 in Windows instead of running far slower and only OpenGL 1.4 in Linux. So, it's faster and more capable. I can even do things like force aspect ration when running at a lower resolution, something I can't do with these drivers in Linux.

      * My old Canon inkjet printer provides more information in Windows. I can bring up a window showing the ink levels so I can have a rough estimate as to when I should go out to get more cartridges. I can also force a manual clean of the heads if necessary, something I cannot do with the generic drivers in Linux.

      * My Realtek HD audio audio chipset has a really dodgy volume ramp-up in Linux. From about 0% to 50% it is fairly steady, but quiet. From 50% onwards it seems to change the amount of volume that is increased per each percentage tick. It's not linear. Very annoying since I end up lacking the fine-grained volume control that I can get with the drivers in Windows. A change in a volume tick in Windows at the higher levels is subtle, but in Linux it's much more noticeable. Might not sound like a big issue but it is when the volume doesn't work like your brain thinks it should!

      * My webcam in Windows has additional controls such as horizontal mirroring of the image, automatic gain control, etc. I am not presented with such functions in Linux due to the primitive development of webcam drivers.

      So in short - if you ignore what DOESN'T work very well in Linux, well then no wonder a lot of people try it, find it lacking and go back to Windows. Things will never improve in ignorance.

    4. Re:I bet by Xabraxas · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well I have found that jack shit works with 64-bit versions of Windows and since I left 32-bit land 2 years ago I don't really want to go back. 64-bit driver support is definitely subpar compared to Linux. Hell, the whole 64-bit environment is subpar on Windows compared to Linux.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
    5. Re:I bet by Xabraxas · · Score: 2, Informative

      It all depends on what you're doing. My linux wireless drivers support monitor mode and injection while the Windows drivers do not. Other than that there is nothing I can think of that the Windows wireless drivers do that my Linux wireless drivers cannot do.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
    6. Re:I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      God I get really angry sometimes at comments like this. People assume that their own experiences are all that counts.

      My experiences, on the other hand, should be taken into consideration as something that counts.

      Wait, what?

    7. Re:I bet by hairyfeet · · Score: 2, Informative

      Let the old repair guy give you a hand there bud. And here you go. If that one don't work look up your specific model at driverguide. It requires a registration, but it is free to register and takes less than 5 minutes. I hope this sets you to rights.

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    8. Re:I bet by cheater512 · · Score: 3, Informative

      It varies. Lets leave it at that.

      The HP Printer drivers for Linux are *far* superior to the Windows ones in every way.
      Not only are they on SourceForge (but made by HP themselves), but they support every feature you can name. Network printing, fax, scanner, card reader and so on.
      Checking the ink levels is more precise than on Windows.
      They all tie in properly with the appropriate Linux subsystems. CUPS, Sane, etc...

      FYI I'm using one of their networked multifunction centers.
      Network autodetection on Linux is quick and painless and using it over the network doesnt add/remove any features compared to USB.

      Not to mention that the Windows drivers are 250mb to download, and the Linux ones are 11mb for the same thing.

  2. who are these people? by LordKaT · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Who the heck are these people using S3 cards nowadays? Why aren't they buying low-end (sub-$80) nvidia or ATI cards?

    You get practically the same performance (although 3D performance is far and away better on comparable nVidia/ATI cards) for the same price, the same small heatsink/fan, and better driver support.

    Is there a populous of severely brain damaged geeks out there that I don't know about? If so, are any of you female, because I've been feeling lonely lately.

    1. Re:who are these people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      most low-end motherboards with via chipsets come with s3 graphics onboard.

    2. Re:who are these people? by Jurily · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Who the heck are these people using S3 cards nowadays?

      Tough question... the last S3 card I've seen was a 2Mb Trio.

    3. Re:who are these people? by SaDan · · Score: 5, Informative

      As an AC previously stated, motherboards with VIA's integrated video use the Chrome drivers.

      I bought an Everex laptop that uses Chrome9 drivers, and it doesn't do bad for what it is ($300 laptop running Ubuntu).

      My wife's PC is also an Everex system with a VIA integrated video using Chrome drivers. It's the $200 system Wal-Mart was selling a while ago.

      Why pay for a video card that costs half as much, or more, than the entire system? Video performance is acceptable for day-to-day use, even playing YouTube videos.

    4. Re:who are these people? by Heather+D · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Who the heck are these people using S3 cards nowadays?

      Tough question... the last S3 card I've seen was a 2Mb Trio.

      Truth that. An old ATi or Nvidea card is a better buy and is more available as well. The only market I can see for them is OEM integrated and brick and mortar sales and I haven't seen an S3 card for sale in a local store since the 90's.

    5. Re:who are these people? by Average · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's the evangelism perspective.

      Look, if you're like me, and been primarily Linux-using since the a.out days (see Slashdot ID), you'll check every component and buy based on "what works great with Linux", and even "who's directly advancing open-source software, not being buttheads".

      Problem is, I, and much of the Linux community, want to be able to give an Ubuntu LiveCD to my friend Joe who just recently heard about this 'Linux thing". And have it work.

      I don't want to say "so, what kind of video chipset did eMachines put in your Walmart box", "what network", "what sound".

    6. Re:who are these people? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Who the heck are these people using S3 cards nowadays? Why aren't they buying low-end (sub-$80) nvidia or ATI cards?

      Who are these people buying graphics cards now? More than 50% of all sales of new computers have been laptops for a while, and they tend not to have their graphics chip on a removable board. Even desktops are more likely to use on-board video than anything else. And a lot of cheap machines in both segments come with onboard S3 graphics. Sure, they only have 1% of the total market share (Q4 2008 figures), but that still translates to a huge number of units.

      --
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    7. Re:who are these people? by moosesocks · · Score: 3, Informative

      Really? The vast majority of built-in video cards that I've seen come from Intel.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    8. Re:who are these people? by Xabraxas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the Linux guys want Linux to make serious inroads into the consumer markets they HAVE to support Lexmark.

      I have a better idea. Let's destroy Lexmark so no one has to deal with their crappy printers anymore! ;)

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
  3. Standard Operating Procedure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is common for companies to issue 'forward looking' statements and clueless positive outlook synergestic lies. Usually by marketing, sales and PR, they totally ignore the engineers, developers or any other employee that may actually know what the fuck they are talking about, and quite often sneer at them for 'not getting it'.

    It is a syndrome that is quite common - a scientist says something like 'global warming is a problem'. Put a guy in a suit, call him a CEO or a politician, and his 'I'm confident . . .' bullshit will win almost every time.

    So I simply refuse to believe ANY STATEMENT by these guys - they have ZERO credibility left.

     

  4. Re:AC Responds About Linux Support by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    as Bruce Perens famously said at Linux SF Con 2006, Linux is only free if your time has no value

          Three years is a long time in computing years. Too bad you're missing out on everything linux has to offer nowadays. Enjoy your vendor lock-in, and don't forget, Microsoft wants you to pay the tax again in a year or so.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  5. Sad by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These days, its sad if a hardware manufacturer doesn't support Linux. There are plenty of people literally begging for the specs of hardware so they can write clean, proper and free Linux drivers. If you are going to make low-end hardware as S3 does, you better make sure that Linux compatibility is one of the first things on you list.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Sad by whoever57 · · Score: 3, Funny

      S3 is obviously worried about their advanced technology being stolen by nVidia and AMD if they publish an open-source driver or the specs required to write such a driver.

      Clearly, as S3 slipped behind the competition in video card performance, they also let the clue train get away.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    2. Re:Sad by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A company like S3 is insane for prioritizing its development time to a platform with 85% of the desktop market!

      But when you make low end products, it is best to develop for the low end market. These days, the low end market is dominated by Linux and XP. With XP having about 75% and Linux about 25%. Now, if it was so difficult for them to write a proper Linux driver, it might make sense, but if they give specs to a kernel developer (even under an NDA so long as the resulting driver was GPL'd) they wouldn't have to do a thing and they would have a high-quality driver for Linux.

      Would a business risk ~25% of its customers by not doing something that costs the company $0 along with improving its PR? I don't think most businesses would, and thats why its so sad.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:Sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also why AMD took so long fulfilling it's promise on R600/700 3d Docs: They had the WHOLE reference run over by lawyers to make sure what got out wouldn't be something that 'came back' as it were :D

  6. Download by djupedal · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...just so people know...the linux driver available for download is at least 3 months old.

    Chrome 400 Series: Linux Display Driver - x86
    File Name
    S3G-Linux-x86-Chrome4x.14.02.01.tar.bz2 (11,334KB)
    Version     Version: 14.02.01
    Date: 11/19/2008
    Description     Release Type: Beta
    - Initial release
    GPU IDs: 9043, 9045

  7. VIA's Linux Portal site by SaDan · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://linux.via.com.tw/

    Get your latest Linux drivers there. I went there to get better drivers for the two VIA systems I own that rely on Chrome drivers, and the newer drivers worked great.

    S3's product site is here: http://www.s3graphics.com/en/products/

  8. Re:AC Responds About Linux Support by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Because no-one ever had to re-install Windows.

    My time isn't free, people *pay* me quite a lot of money to maintain their Linux systems.

    --
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  9. Re:AC Responds About Linux Support by rajafarian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I work in IT (the dreaded Helpdesk job) and I have made a lot of money supporting Windows systems since Windows 95.

  10. Re:AC Responds About Linux Support by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

    as Bruce Perens famously said at Linux SF Con 2006, Linux is only free if your time has no value

    Three years is a long time in computing years. Too bad you're missing out on everything linux has to offer nowadays.

    Yes, I know he's trolling but you're not really countering his point. In the context that Bruce Perens used it, Linux isn't free nor will it ever be. Neither is paying for Windows. Neither is pirating Windows. Every hour spent on maintaining or fixing your machine, or any time wasted because you're less efficient in one OS than in another OS, or every time you must use an inferior application to one you could have been using you're losing value. It's fundamental opprtunity cost even if I'm not paid for that hour, where I could say work an hour less and still have the same net amount of personal time left. It's not just the question "Does Linux do everything I want?" but also "Is Linux more efficient at doing what I want?" or at least not worse than the price of Windows + apps. I'm using the desktop now and while I can say that it works out quite well, I'm not sure I can say it's a big win on TCO.

    --
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  11. Re:AC Responds About Linux Support by swillden · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every hour spent on maintaining or fixing your machine, or any time wasted because you're less efficient in one OS than in another OS

    So, what you're saying is that Linux PAYS me to use it, since I'm far more efficient with it than with another OS.

    Linux isn't free, it's BETTER than free!

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  12. Re:AC Responds About Linux Support by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 2, Informative

    So obviously both Linux and Windows have a time cost.
    Although there still is only one that has an up-front money cost.

  13. Re:AC Responds About Linux Support by PhoenixAtlantios · · Score: 2, Informative

    You could argue that the time freed by completing the tasks you desire more efficiently in Linux allows you to perform more paid work, but claiming that therefore means Linux is paying you to use it is entirely deceptive and doesn't really advance the argument for Linux further as much as it causes people to gawk at the perceived intelligence of its vocal users. I'm quite sure anyone running around saying Windows pays them to use it because Photoshop is more efficient for them to use than Gimp would be smacked down with logic quite quickly, even if it provides them with additional time to complete additional paid work the OS isn't actually paying them.

    No doubt I just got trolled, but I think if people try using this sort of argument to convince people to use Linux they're simply going to make themselves look deceptive rather than helpful.