Slashdot Mirror
Amiga Community Collaborates On Restorative Gel To Brighten Your Old Plastic
jamie pointed out an Amiga community that took a discovery of how to restore old computer plastic, super-charged it, and then opened the process to the public domain. Time to spruce up those old dusty TRS-80s in the basement. "All of the initial tests were done with a liquid and we realized that for large parts this was getting expensive, so the next stage was to make a paintable 'gel' version that could be brushed onto larger surfaces. This was tried in Arizona in the sun and the UK under a UV lamp and was found to be just as effective as the liquid. We have now released this to the public domain for anyone to use as we can't patent it and we coined the nickname 'Retr0brite' for it, as it summed up what we were actually doing with it."
Does this work on human skin as well? No? Damn.
Man, the robots only cure their own disease these days. I'm starting to think they don't care about us humans anymore.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
However, a chance discovery was made in March 2008, by The CBM Museum at Wuppertal in Germany, that immersing parts in a solution of Hydrogen Peroxide could partially reverse the process.
They accidentally immersed old plastic parts in Hydrogen Peroxide?
Sounds like a "whoops" turned into a "cool!"
is something special going on at the moment or why are all stories today getting hardly any replies?
everyone jumping ship?
"Fuck computers. We're going into gels."
Both of them?
Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
It sounds to me like this concept has a lot more potential uses. There are likely many other types of plastic where the same protection chemicals were used. While this probably won't help anyone dealing with plastics exposed to other environmental hazards (like dashboards which fade out under too much sunlight), it may prove useful in restoring other items.
What other items can you think of?
DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
It sounds to me like this concept has a lot more potential uses. There are likely many other types of plastic where the same protection chemicals were used. While this probably won't help anyone dealing with plastics exposed to other environmental hazards (like dashboards which fade out under too much sunlight), it may prove useful in restoring other items.
What other items can you think of?
Used dildos?
You can't take the sky from me...
I wonder if this would work on LEGO bricks? Particularly the white ones that fair very poorly in the sun. That a good method for polishing out scratches would make the day of many a LEGO collector.
Finally a way to Bring that shine back to my NES case!
Hmmm, makes you wonder if there is a niche market around for making those dingy office machines look like new.
You'd have to be careful with at least PET, because that degrades when exposed to H2O2 for more than a minute or so. So I'd check for possible side-effects before attempting to spruce up your preciousss with this.
It's been lowering the IQ of brunettes for years.
Obviously the submitter has no idea what the predominate color of a TRS-80 is.
Next they'll be posting how (diluted) acetone takes marks off metal computer cases.
I remember reading about a process that could be applied to the original compact Macintosh boxes (the ones with the 9-inch CRT black and white screens) to restore the case plastic that tends to yellow or darken noticeably as they get older (most of them are 20+ years old by now, so this is to be expected). Anyone know about this?
I've in the past used Soft Scrub cleaner to clean up my old Amiga stuff. This way may be better than what I've done, possibly easier than the gentle scrubbing I did, and I did have to individually scrub each keyboard keycap, which was not particularly fun. I may try this as I get some old stuff ready for ebay.
Better make it only in small batches. B-(
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Ah yes... the venerable Amiga TRS-80. As much as I appreciate the requisite throwaway jokes in summaries, you really couldn't think of any Commodore Amiga product? Even a C64 jab would have been better.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
Back in the day, Ami was a real contender.
Buy an A1000 and run some graphics demos on one. Then try to remember that it was made in 1985.
I've always dreamed of what the world would be like if modern computing had gone this route. Imagine your OS as a bank of roms, and your PC as a fully integrated machine rather than a patchwork of PCI cards and third party drivers.
Seriously, Amiga was an excellent design.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
It's kind of cool that raw UV exposure is the commonly accepted culprit of yellowing, and the restoration process involves basking the gelled surface in UV as well.
Oh, an old Ozzie one! My heart leapt at the sight of it, as if I had seen an old friend. It's a shame I don't have mine anymore.
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
...is the ShamWow.
My sister's bf refurbished his monitor by using classic oven cleaner foam. Excellent results.
Really sounds like tooth whitening gel to me. Some of those procedures use high energy light to excite the peroxide which speeds up the process.
...is another man's sickly yellow. The basic rule of thumb for antiques/collectibles is to never remove its patina e.g. all that crap that's built up on its surface over the years, as it's an undeniable indication of its age (plus sometimes it just looks cool.)
Then again, vintage car fans don't hesitate to break out the paint and the rust remover.
Will diehard technology collectors prefer plastic as yellow as a smoking lounge drop ceiling, or returned to its brilliant off-whiteness?
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
... if you want your computer to be part-Cylon.
I have a greenlight from Hollywood to film the Jack Tramiel Story. Starring Jack Black as Tramiel. It's a heartwarming story of him escaping the Warsaw Ghetto and Nazi oppression (cameo by Ralph Fiennes as Josef Menegele) and headed to the Bronx to repair office machines.
The film ends in Triumph as he founds Commodore and wins over Bill Shatner (played by Bill Shatner of course) to be his spokesperson.
The only thing holding back production was that nobody in Hollywood could get an old C64 to look fresh again.
THANK GOD MAN! THANK GOD!
The last time I confronted this, I used a little Simple Green and a bristle brush. The part looked brand new in seconds. I guess I could've waited a decade for someone to invent a workalike, but it didn't occur to me.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Holy sh*t! TRS-80s? Boy, are YOU showing your age. Wait ... I used to work on those things.
Aw, damn. {whimper}
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
It's not bleaching - they use it to undo the yellowing chemical reaction on a gray Atari 130XE. It goes from yellow-brown right back to gray.
It's absolutely amazing.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Anyone else read this as:
Someone online "discovered" that others had cleaned the plastics using hydrogen peroxide and decided to do the same, then proclaim that they had discovered a way to clean the plastics and generusly donate the recipy to the public?
Where exactly is it that they did anything more special then a google search to figure out that others had already solved the problem?
I know some politicians and actresses who should try it out. They need it bad.
wake up and hold your nose
What you're doing is applying an oxygenating bleach to the surface. Works quite well to remove the yellow. But anytime you apply oxygen to a surface you speed up the rate of .... oxidation!
So while you're whitening it, you're also speeding up the deterioration of the plastic.
If you've ever used an "ozone generator" to remove smoke odors you know it does that job very well, and it also destroys every rubber band, ballpoint pen, and bicycle tire in the area.
Was that the process that Michael Jackson used?
was it because it was 'published' on the internet or something? Ethics? Just because they didn't want to?
At least in the US, I know that Processes and Compositions are patentable.
I suppose I should just ask them.
More to the point, how the TRS-80 got that predominant color: paint. Silver satin paint over, I think, gray ABS.
Try their "Oxy boost" peroxide experiment on a TRS-80 and see what you get. I'm sure it won't be minty-mint.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Polyrazzmatazz... PolyGLYCOAT... Polyrazzmatazz... PolyGLYCOAT.... (too damn many TV commercials in my Texas youth)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Yep, I remember the paint wearing off in front of the keyboard on my fathers Model III - must've been due to playing too many games of Cosmic Fighter and Meteor Mission hehe. Under the speckly silver paint it was light grey plastic.
Twenty years ago or so, when I was working as a tech in an Apple Service Centre, we were using a leather softening agent for saddlery called "Gee-Y" (or "Gee-Why" depending on what part of the world you're from) to clean the ABS cases of hardware like this. A rag dipped in Gee-Y used to polish the burn out.
Worked brilliantly for restoring the original colours of computer equipment that had been getting browned from sitting in direct sunlight, and it wouldn't affect the printing on cases and key caps.
I seem to remember seeing one here on slashdot a few years back. if you don't know what a boing ball is/was, don't talk to me about Amigas. :)
didn't they fire all you guys? how do you remember which site you're trolling on?
Are we 100% sure that this is not the Cylon gooey matter? Rogue AIs and networked computers don't mix.
That as always depends very much on how you judge the value...
Are you interested in the monetary value?
Or are you more interested in the value to you?
Or perhaps you'd just as well have a newly produced one, if you could.
And of course to some people only the tech counts and an emulator is as good as the real deal.
It's the same question as to what to do with a Roman house... leave it in the ground? Carry it to a museum? Leave it derelict in the landscape? Or build an imitation at a new site as an amusement park? I've seen Roman buildings in all these states and I must stress that at least to me these approaches are all valuable in their own way.
I could use something to soften old vinyl cables used on 40 year old Tektronix gear. I have a few probes (P6032, P6042) that have stiff cables. This is bad because it puts a lot of strain on the conductors inside since the cable no longer flexes as before.
Mostly random stuff.
Ha! Ha!
LOL!! Until your post on this thread, I was happily remembering helping my buddy code a war game in BASIC on his TRS 80. He was converting the table top w/dice(think D&D style game in WW2, with rulebook and dice taking the DM's place) game they developed/modded into a computer game. The goal was to recreate the tabletop game on the PC.
The idea came about from the group playing chess with each other over modem. LAN COOP play in the early/mid 1980's!
The game was very similar to what ended up as Panzer/Allied/People's General style turn-based strategy games in the 1990's. (not claiming 'me first!!', just trying to provide a reference for what we were doing on the TRS80)
Good times! But now thanks to you, I too am showing and feeling my age. Oh yeah, "you insensitive clod!". Almost forgot...damn senility is messing with my mind. No, I don't mind. What? Wait, is this a trick question? Who are you?...
'Have pink flamingo, will travel'[Harry Aldrich]
I hope to be Harry someday...(movie worth watching-good family fun!*spoiler* especially watching 'mom and pop' find ways to get themselves killed for the insurance money)
Good Clean Fun(tm), yet still entertaining...a recommended 'must see', if convenient.(purely dished up as IMHO)
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Yeah basically, but the Mac was missing the key element of "helper" coprocessors.
That's it exactly. Amiga was years ahead of the competition. The design was simply brilliant. We didn't have a lot of speed. The processor is 8 freaking MHz. But with clever and elegant design, the thing could do miracles.
And the thought I have now is - what if this had been the main thrust of computing? What if this had become the dominant design paradigm? Add 20+ years of work and research onto that idea rather than the IBM beige box. Take the Amiga design concept and move that into a 3Ghz processor realm, with nVidia doing the Angus chip equivalent.
Computers today would look like the things we see in sci-fi movies. It'd be unreal.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Apple would have gone bankrupt too (goodbye Macintosh) if it had not been saved at the last minute by Gates.
Gates didn't "save apple". Microsoft bought $150M in non-voting-rights stock.
At the time, Apple had BILLIONS of dollars in CASH (well, not real cash, but in bank accounts of course.) It was losing money, but it wasn't in need of a bailout or rescue- and the money "bought" MS a couple of things, one of which was IE being the default shipping browser. More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple#The_Microsoft_deal
Let me make that perfectly clear: the amount of money involved in the deal was insignificant to BOTH parties, and Microsoft got what it paid for.
Furthermore, Office for the Macintosh has always been one of Microsoft's most profitable products.
PS:It wasn't Jobs that was responsible for OS X. It was Amelio- he bought NEXT after BeOS stuck its thumb up at Apple and demanded a fortune. Jobs repaid the favor by manipulating the stock price and ousting Amelio.
Please help metamoderate.
Some of their materials chemistry in the theoretical background there is a bit iffy, but the main thing that jumps out at me is that they reckon they're reducing bromine compounds (bromine oxides, which are brown) by converting them to hydrobromic acid. Of course I've not worked out the whole scheme yet, it's possible they're just forming bromate salts in practice, and it's tiny amounts anyway, but I'm curious as to how much (or little) hydrolysis of the polymer you get from that in the long run.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Will the flames still be retarded?
Or not?
Or even fueled by added oxygen in the material?
Hi, I am the guy that wrote the Wiki. Now, I know that there are skeptics out there and I may have over simplified the science a bit so that non-nerds can understand what's going on, but I am open to listen to anyone who can explain the chemistry that is actually going on in a coherent way. I may have made it too simple I suppose. Regarding the ABS polymer itself; consider that black car bumpers and trim are made from (yes you've guessed it) ABS. These tend to go white (not yellow or brown) over a long time in sunlight. This is the ABS polymer degrading to the hydroperoxide via oxidation. The computer parts only go white if you use too strong a peroxide solution, so what is reacting under UV so quickly? My theory is it's the TBBP-A flame retardant which is active under UV and decomposes. There is also the phenomenon of migration, where ingredients can move within the plastic matrix and eventually get to the surface. I believe that the degradation products of TBBP-A migraet through the ABS and this is what make it discolour as the molecules attract oxygen molecules. There have also been comments elsewhere that the site is a hoax and that the photos are faked; if this were so, how could the photographs post in the various forums threads I added to the Reading section of the Wiki this morning be faked? They aren't, simple as......... I know I risk feeding trolls with this but this isn't a hoax. As this uses properietary products as part of the mixture, it couldn't be patented, however, I suppose I could have patented the use of H2O2 with TAED in a use for treating plastic. I chose not to and so it was released for all into the public domain. Don't flame me; try it for yourself. Let the flaming begin...........
I was bathing grey and white Lego pieces in just hydrogen peroxide and sunlight (outside) in 2005/2006. It took a few hours and worked very well but definitely needed something to speed it up.
The Lego pieces don't seem to have been affected since doing this after just checking the model.
I have used Brasso (liquid) or jeweller's rouge on bricks with fine scratches (build a wall and do a side at a time) to a least get finer lines in the same direction.
There are fanboys everywhere, if you look hard enough ;) To be honest, We've been goven such a hard time about this, it's a wonder I got the motivation to write it up at all... Criticism is easy and requires no effort at all, actually coming up with a logical scientific explanation for this requires a lot more, and that's where the fanboys lose interest. This process works, I know it's related to bromine chemistry in the flame retardant, I just don't happen to have an HPLC or a GC at home to be able to prove this, that's all. Harpo at Atari Age is a more quaklified chemist than I and he was able to follow my reasoning and say that I was on the right track; it's just that it's a complex thing to pin down since there are so many ways the TBBP can react. nyhoo, don't take my word for it, prove it to yourselves....
How many parts of what to what? What concentration of Hydrogen Peroxide?
thanks
TRS-80's were painted silver. The stuff won't work on them properly.
This 2007 VC&G article covers the yellowing issue quite well. It was the first on the Net to examine the chemistry of plastic yellowing in plain english. I have the feeling it inspired the Retrobrite guys to do their amazing work:
http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/189
It also mentions many possible solutions to the problem (including Retrobrite) and preventative measures.
Will the flames still be retarded?
On Slashdot? Yes, surely there are plenty of retarded flamers....
-rozzin.