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Utah Trying To Restrict Keyword Advertising ... Again

Eric Goldman writes "The Utah legislature has tried to restrict keyword advertising twice before, with disastrous results. In 2004, Utah tried to ban keyword advertising in adware; that law was declared unconstitutional. In 2007, Utah tried to regulate competitive keyword advertising; after a firestorm of protests, Utah repealed the law in 2008. Despite this track record, Utah is trying to regulate keyword advertising a third time. HB 450 would allow trademark owners to block competitors from displaying certain types of keyword ads. In practice, this law is just another attempt by the Utah legislature to enact a law that doesn't help consumers at all but does help trademark owners suppress their online competition."

23 of 257 comments (clear)

  1. remove the Mormons tag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Please remove the "Mormons" tag. Not all Mormons think that way. San Francisco has liberal Mormons, Texas has conservative Mormons, and there are libertarians dispersed throughout.

    1. Re:remove the Mormons tag by qoncept · · Score: 3, Insightful

      +1. It's like having a story about water melons and adding a "black people" tag.

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      Whale
    2. Re:remove the Mormons tag by stoolpigeon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It would have dropped off on its own - now you all have made sure anyone who comes along the thread later will know it was there. Sometimes it is worth just chilling out and seeing where things go.

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      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    3. Re:remove the Mormons tag by Ironchew · · Score: 5, Funny

      You have experienced the horror of keyword advertising!

    4. Re:remove the Mormons tag by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 4, Funny

      Please remove the "Mormons" tag. Not all Mormons think that way. San Francisco has liberal Mormons, Texas has conservative Mormons, and there are libertarians dispersed throughout.

      Oh, c'mon, Dude!! What's wrong with you? Geez... Christian-bashing is the last socially acceptable form of bigotry left to Americans, and now you want to take that away, too?

    5. Re:remove the Mormons tag by stoolpigeon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Those tags are user generated. Do you think it is also worthwhile to reply to every comment troll?

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      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    6. Re:remove the Mormons tag by Scrameustache · · Score: 4, Insightful

      +1. It's like having a story about water melons and adding a "black people" tag.

      Actually, it's like having a story about laws regarding information technology and someones persecution complex turns the thread about their religion, the places where it is practiced, and the vrious shades it comes in.

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      You can't take the sky from me...

    7. Re:remove the Mormons tag by the_B0fh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you consider Jesus holy

      By that standard, Jews and Muslims are Christians too!

    8. Re:remove the Mormons tag by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Please remove the "Mormons" tag. Not all Mormons think that way.

      But most Mormons do. They are a fairly conservative bunch on the whole. The story is about a conservative, Republican, Mormon dominated legislature trying to get the internet to play by corporate rules. The "mormon" tag is just as appropriate as a "republican" or "conservative" or "corporations" tag on the story.

      People can legitimately object to stereotypes and prejudices. But sometimes those stereotypes are things that are legitimately true and that need to be said, even if they do offend. Not allowing this leads to situations in which we now find ourselves. According to the UN, we can now no longer "defame" religions or their followers, no matter how much we disagree with their beliefs or practices.

      Forget the rough stuff. Mormons, by dogma, can't drink coffee and tea. I personally think this is a stupid prohibition. Muslims, again by dogma, can't draw pictures of Mohammad. I personally think this a really stupid prohibition. Catholics( especially in third world countries), again by dogma, can't use condoms. I personally think this is an appallingly stupid prohibition which costs lives every single day. I think the people who follow these prohibitions are being unreasonable, inconsiderate and irresponsible.

      My opinions here could land me in jail in many countries for being "bigoted" or for "stereotyping" or for "hate speech". Some people will say that I'm tarnishing the image of whole groups of people, or that not all people in those groups support these prohibitions. Tell that to the people living in Utah, or Saudi Arabia, or Italy, who have to put up with prohibitions imposed on them in the name of the silent religious majority.

      In conclusion, it is not automatically "Wrong(TM)" to stereotype a religious community. In fact, when that communities religious practices start to infringe on others liberties, it is right to stereotype, lampoon and indeed "defame" those practices, and to force that community to reflect upon itself. Religion should never be except from criticism, and especially satire.

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      May the Maths Be with you!
    9. Re:remove the Mormons tag by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 3, Informative

      What is bigoted about adding a "mormon" tag when over 80% of the Utah state legislature are members of the LDS church?

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      May the Maths Be with you!
    10. Re:remove the Mormons tag by geobeck · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ...even though I am proud of what I believe

      Ah, but you're not supposed to be proud in your belief, but humble in it. After all, did not St. James Buffett describe the seven deadly sins thusly:

      1. Pride...Thou shalt not have pride in thy neighbor.
      2. Coveting...Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
      3. Lust...Thou shalt not lust after his neighbor's wife.[sic]
      4. Anger...Do not be angry with your neighbor's wife.
      5. Gluttony...Do not eat thy neighbor's wife's...popcorn.
      6. Envy...Do not envy your neighbor's wife.
      7. Sloth...Do not be a slob.
      8. And the eighth deadly sin is...PIZZA!

      For what it's worth, I know two Mormon couples. They're very nice people, they don't have multiple wives, and are very active in the community. They don't proselytize on the evils of keyword advertising. And that proves this isn't "a Mormon thing" because, as we all know, the plural of "anecdote" is "data".

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    11. Re:remove the Mormons tag by geobeck · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think the difference boils down like this:

      • Jews and Muslims consider Christ to be a prophet.
      • Christians consider Christ to be The Prophet.
      • Televangelists consider Christ to be The Profit.
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    12. Re:remove the Mormons tag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except that Mormonism is the Scientology of early America. Anyone here who rallies against the COS when they do...what they do, but gives slack to the LDS, has been deluded by the idea that "real" religions are sacrosanct and shouldn't be attacked for any reason.

      Bashing a religion is not bigotry, because your choice of religion is your own. Most monotheists believe that in order to have fulfillment as a sentient being, you need to be personally adored by the omnipotent, eternal creator of existence itself. To me that seems slightly self-centered. Christians worship and purport to love a god that demanded that his own son be brutally tortured and executed if he didn't want to see his favorite race of created beings done the same way. Mormonism and Scientology are even worse because they haven't been around long enough to weed out the people at the top who know that it's all lies but continue to profit from it anyway. Pointing out the flaws in that sort of thinking, or even making blanket statements about how stupid those religions are, is not bigotry, it's pointing out that a set of ideas is stupid. Not only completely different, but absolutely reasonable.

    13. Re:remove the Mormons tag by Devout_IPUite · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And yet you post as an Anonymous Coward. I think people have an obligation to stand up and say this without fear of reprisal. Because if you are only willing to say something without attaching yourself to it, you're really killing your own qualifications.

      That said, I endorse the post above.

    14. Re:remove the Mormons tag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think people have an obligation to stand up and say this without fear of reprisal.

      Which is sadly not possible. I posted AC not really because of fear of reprisal from the organizations themselves, but because society as a whole views comments like mine as hateful and bigoted (because religions that survive do so in part by convincing people that those who attack religion are bigoted/hateful/evil/enemies/etc). It's fortunate that expression is protected, but even so I prefer not to put myself at risk of being turned down for future jobs, or whatever else might happen, because someone linked my real name to "hate speech."

  2. So, Google will have a disclaimer... by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In tiny print, at the bottom of each page: "Please do not use this site where prohibited."

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    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  3. Seems a sensible restriction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    It seems Utah merely wants to prevent advertisers from getting married to too many keywords.

  4. Not as clear cut as you might think. by tjstork · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First off, I note that the "mormon" tag on the article. If there were a quote from a black leader, I wonder, would you tag the article as "black"?

    I would not be so quick to bury this guy in your haste to have weaker trademarks. There is an interesting question, buried in this article. It is, what does a trademark actually buy? A trademark is a sort of a definition of an invented word, administered today by the government. A search word is as also a definition of a word, administered by a private corporation and sold to the highest bidder.

    When Linux trademarks "Linux", it is to say that he has the rights to the definition of this word in some way as it pertains to his product. But, if I buy Linux on Google, then, I get the right to define the word by having my definition be placed in a preferred position.

    Thus, you almost have to view trademark as a contest between the federal first come first serve word ownership mechanism, and, a private enterprise word as an auction mechanism advanced by the likes of Google.

    There is a real dividing line between corporation and state, and the irony here is that those who would argue that trademarks should be less powerful by definition argue that words should be auctioned, rather than licensed, and conversely, those who argue for strong government trademarks ultimately argue that the government should control more the meaning of words rather than the free market.

    I would be willing to bet that leftists who casually seek to undermine business by eliminating trademarks might be well advised to rethink that position, as they should so many others. I can't imagine that they of all people would really want a world where the definitions of words are decided by the highest bidder. It runs the risk of undermining everything that they stand for, and for that reason I'd have to conclude that people rushing to digitally behead "the mormon" might well consider that the "the mormon" is doing them a favor.

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    This is my sig.
  5. The unfortunate reality of government by IamGarageGuy+2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The way these items get passed is with continually trying the bill again. I have seen unpopular laws passed at the local level that were thrown out repeatedly until eventually the right opposers were either not present or just plain old tired of fighting it. I believe the term is patient gradualism. Just keep trying to get a law passed, until eventually new lawmakers are present or the opposition is not present at the time.

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    Stay tuned for new sig...
  6. Utah? by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is a state where 58% of its inhabitants claim membership in a single religion, and the overwhelming majority of the legislature comes from this demographic. They're not exactly known for their progressive views on technology. Might I suggest we kindly totally and completely ignore this state? They're clearly out of touch with not just reality, but the rest of the country as well. At worst, Utah-nians just won't be able to go online, and golly gee what a shame that would be. -_- Now go ahead and mod me to hell for stating the obvious. Or can we at least re-classify this under "It's funny, laugh." ?

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  7. Re:Process should be fair. by the+darn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nonsense; more than one advertiser can buy "Toyota" as a keyword, while there is only one Toyota.com. There's nothing wrong with presenting alternatives when someone is looking for something; search is not an exact science anyhow, and many results end up being something other than what you're looking for. A Chevy dealer could buy the keyword and run an ad promoting the Malibu as an alternative to the Camry or such.

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    Ceci n'est pas un post.
  8. Actually it does... by tjstork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Restricting the use of language doesn't work.

    Actually it has and it historically does. That's why people do it. But this debate isn't really about restricting language, it's, deciding, who gets to own the definitions of words, the government, or the private sector.

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    This is my sig.
  9. Trademark by mlwmohawk · · Score: 3, Informative

    A trademark is a sort of a definition of an invented word, administered today by the government.

    Not exactly. The term "Windows" is trademarked, should Microsoft be the only entity to be able to purchase "windows?" of course not.

    There is a real dividing line between corporation and state, and the irony here is that those who would argue that trademarks should be less powerful by definition argue that words should be auctioned, rather than licensed, and conversely, those who argue for strong government trademarks ultimately argue that the government should control more the meaning of words rather than the free market.

    Neither of these arguments are correct.

    Trademarks are names and logos under which businesses trade. The reason why they are protected is to protect the reputation of the institution that holds them. Believe it or not, there is "fair use" of trade marks. It is perfectly legal to use someone else's trademark if you using only enough of it to identify the business.

    For instance. A car dealership named "Planet Subaru" has the trademark "Planet Subaru." As a dissatisfied customer, I can create a website named "www.planetsubarusucks.com." I can even use the trademarked name "Planet Subaru" on this site as long as there is no confusion that I am associated with them, only as much of the trademark as necessary to identify the business, and that I do not intend to trade on their mark.

    It is perfectly legitimate for a ford dealer to buy "toyota" to get business from a competitor. Trademarks are not for censorship.