Slashdot Mirror


UK Company Sold Workers' Secret Data

krou writes "The BBC is reporting that the Information Commissioner's Office has shut down a company in the UK for a serious breach of the Data Protection Act. It claims that the company, The Consulting Association in Droitwich, Worcs, ran a secret system that it repeatedly denied existed for 15 years, selling workers' confidential data, including union activities, to building firms, allowing potential employers to unlawfully vet job applicants. About 3,213 workers were in the database, and other information included data on personal relationships, political affiliations, and employment histories. More than 40 firms are believed to have used the service, paying a £3,000 annual fee, and each of them will be investigated, too." The article says that The Consulting Association faces a £5,000 fine — after pulling in £1.8 million over 15 years with its illegal blacklist.

122 comments

  1. 5k fine, 1.8M in profits by KiloByte · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's kind of hard to say "continue, please" louder than by slapping such an enormous fine.

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    1. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, it can get a lot worse for them, they can be forced to stop all data exports for a long investigation time. I was on a project receiving data for a rather large global company (who is making the news quite regularly these days) from all European markets as part of a pan Europe system. The data itself was nothing special, the company owned it in each market and was merely transferring it around within, yet one country data protection overlords somehow found protocol wasn't precisely being followed. I never found out exactly what was wrong, but that country's data wasn't able to be used for almost two years.

    2. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by InsertWittyNameHere · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a solid business plan

    3. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's kind of hard to say "continue, please" louder than by slapping such an enormous fine.

      What are the odds of the employers who illegally used said database being fined or punished in some way? Punish the people who used the database and you'll find that the next time someone offers up illegal information for sale they'll have a much harder time finding customers.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    4. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by QuantumRiff · · Score: 2

      I'm sure the lawsuits by the people on the list who have been denied employment because of it, will be much more helpful in making sure companies don't want to go this route again.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    5. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by u38cg · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I think the fine is a legal maximum; when the law was written it was never envisaged that a company would be abusing data in this way.

      Am I right in thinking that a company doing this would, in general, be entirely legal in the US?

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    6. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by cayenne8 · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      "Sounds like a solid business plan"

      Well, it was. This is an old school method...currently being replaced by just scanning the internet in general, target searching on Facebook and the like.

      As much as the old music industry is hurting with online distribution, so will services like this due to this kind of information being out there for free.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 5, Informative

      The company has been shut down. Its owner faces prosecution *and* a £5000 fine (and for a case like this they will go for the maximum penalties).

      Also all its customers are now under investigation and also face possible prosecution.

      Also both the original company *and* its customers are wide open for legal action against them if they denied anyone a job because of this data.

      That's a pretty fucking heavy disincentive for anyone doing it again.

    8. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Umm, where did I say that?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    9. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by compro01 · · Score: 1

      Much nicer idea would be 5k pounds times 3213 instances. That would handily disappear those profits almost 9-fold.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    10. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      What sort of moron would write a law where the penalty doesn't apply per incidence?

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    11. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      - Punish the people who used the database and you'll find that the next time someone offers up illegal information for sale they'll have a much harder time finding customers. -
      ****************
      Bullshit! That's the same argument they use about arresting "Johns" or small time pot smokers. Will never work.

    12. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by darth+dickinson · · Score: 1

      Am I right in thinking that a company doing this would, in general, be entirely legal in the US?

      No...no, you're not.

    13. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      OK, 3,213 employees(and former employees, one would think) in the database. Forty firms are paying £3,000 on a yearly basis for information on that tiny little group... How often do those 3,213 people apply for new jobs?

      These numbers are like Minnie Mouse, I think they're fu*king Goofy.

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    14. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let us know when it actually happens.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    15. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by Captain+Hook · · Score: 3, Informative

      those 3,213 employees are the ones who are blacklisted, that doesn't mean the employers are only checking 3213 potential employees.

      and before anyone says those 3213 employees had it coming for being trouble makers - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7928331.stm

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    16. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by vishbar · · Score: 1

      This is a fundamentally different scenario. Johns/small-time pot smokers commit victimless crimes. The firms in this case are knowingly violating the privacy of each of these 3,000-plus workers. It would be more like prosecuting someone who attempts to hire a hitman.

      --
      Ride the skies
    17. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by rhyder128k · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      "It's kind of hard to say "continue, please" louder than by slapping such an enormous fine."

      Oh come on, it worked with Microsoft. Oh right...

      --
      Michael Reed, freelance tech writer.
    18. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by digitig · · Score: 1

      The penalty does apply per incidence. There is once incidence. The prosecution is for failing to register the company with the data protection office, not for selling the data. And the summary also appears to be wrong to say that the DCO has closed down the company; all the report says is that it has already ceased trading.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    19. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by davolfman · · Score: 1

      If it's the same small statutory fine, they could just pay it and keep going. It's not like this data is a product they're selling, this data is just a small HR cost with potentially large abusive rewards.

    20. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by infonography · · Score: 1

      Well, it was. This is an old school method...currently being replaced by just scanning the internet in general, target searching on Facebook and the like.

      As much as the old music industry is hurting with online distribution, so will services like this due to this kind of information being out there for free.

      I concur, I limit the amount of info on my social sites. It's neither safe nor is it ethical some of the practices or conclusions that these create. Does it really matter that someone dressed up on Halloween like a pirate, does that make them a software pirate? But that is what some dumb folk will say if they look on a facebook page of wacky drunkeness.

      ok I am blaming the stupid here and....

      oh wait thats ok. If they have no clue I wouldn't work for them anyway. If you have to rely on someone else to tell you who to hire you likely have to rely on someone else to tell you how to run your business. So pretty soon your company is screwed by your mismanagement for not hiring proper HR people and spending too much time on employee's personal lives then your core business. This sort of foolishness invites lawsuits and rightly so.

      A company that has to pay out discrimination settlements wasn't run properly from the top down.

      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    21. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      The maximum penalty is a £5000 fine, plus a court injunction preventing them from doing it again. If they do it again, which they won't, they could be jailed for contempt of court.

      Most likely, another company will start up in another part of the country doing the same thing, and in 15 years time, it will get fined £5000.

      Of course construction companies are not hiring in significant numbers at the moment anyway, so maybe they will wait a few years before this new company is set up.

    22. Re:5k fine, 1.8M in profits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was very much envisaged, which is why trade union membership and political inclinations are specifically enumerated as sensitive personal data, with more severe restrictions on how/if such may be stored.

      The fine may be small but those listed in the database are entitled to personal compensation and that can be very costly.

      Still, UK's implementation of this EU directive is one of the more lenient ones. E.g. in Sweden, he'd been liable for up to 2 years in prison and a substantial fine.

  2. sounds like the work of a genius by captainpanic · · Score: 0, Troll

    getting 1.8 million for things you can also find on facebook! :D

    1. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      Most people working in the construction industry do not have a Facebook account. Most probably do not have a MySpace account either. They also probably don't have a lot of access to legal options either.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    2. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Yup, 'cos most building workers have a facebook page.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    3. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by domi28 · · Score: 1

      Most people working in the construction industry do not have a Facebook account. Most probably do not have a MySpace account either. They also probably don't have a lot of access to legal options either.

      How did you come to that conclusion?

    4. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by Cally · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's the infuriating aspect of this for some of us in the infosec world. This wasn't "selling private data", it was a good old-fashioned blacklist of "troublesome" employees who did annoying things like joining unions, complaining about health and safety violations (construction's very dangerous in the UK, I think it's ~100 deaths a year, and you can work out the ratio of deaths to maimings and career-ending injuries.) What they did was vile and evil, and the companies (huge mainstream FTSE-listed corporations, mostly) should be taken to the fucking cleaners as a clear sign that this sort of thing is illegal for good reasons, and will not be tolerated. However it's got FA to do with "leaking of personal data"; the headlines here, on the Beeb and even El Reg have been totally misleading.

      --
      "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
    5. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by prefect42 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Cut out the 'in the UK bit'. A quick google gives me outdated figures for 2005/6:

      UK: 59
      US: 5702

      --

      jh

    6. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by prefect42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A more correct google gives:

      UK: 59
      US: 1186

      --

      jh

    7. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Highly variable, I suspect.

      Illiterate undocumented immigrant getting paid 80 pence an hour to carry a hod? Probably not.

      Skilled tradesman who happens to have political opinions pinker than his boss would like? Quite possibly(especially the web stuff).

      Access to legal options, unfortunately, is very much a game for the wealthy; but the interwebs are pretty far downmarket these days.

    8. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Why can't an employer know if a person is a union member before hiring him? What happened to freedom of association?

      If an employer wants to hire union members he should be free to do so - if he does not want to hire union members he should also be free to do so also. Why is an employee forced to reveal if he has a criminal record? In my experience union membership is a more disruptive force in the workplace than a criminal record.

    9. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Before you go on some elitist tangent, please realize that the US has a lot more people and a LOT more huge construction jobs.

    10. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A question I have is, would this action even be illegal in the US considering there is no such thing as (or equivalent of) the data protection act?

    11. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by Teun · · Score: 1

      Being on a tangent, safety on larger projects is (much) better managed.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    12. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by Teun · · Score: 1

      Unionisation is a human right like free speech, telling someone he's not hired because he's a union member would deliver a 100% certain charge for discrimination.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    13. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by Ironica · · Score: 1

      Chances are, sharing this type of data would break various laws in the US, including those protecting workers' rights to unionize and whistleblower protection laws.

      Individual workers could also sue the company for providing information that was prejudicial against them to prospective employers. When I was a manager, we couldn't even say *good* things about previous employees; if we got a call from a prospective employer checking an applicant's previous employment, all we could do was confirm (or fail to confirm) dates employed, job title, and pay information. We couldn't provide any information or answer any qualitative questions.

      We could act as *personal* references, but if called in our capacity with the company, we couldn't even say "Wow, she was great, we really miss her!"

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    14. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by MrPhilby · · Score: 1

      50% of my construction staff have Facebook. The other guy's fingers are too fat.

    15. Re:sounds like the work of a genius by xaxa · · Score: 1

      The people targeted were union members, so they have access to lawyers. They're also in the UK, where fees are much more reasonable, and there's the Legal Aid system, for people that can't afford it.

  3. much bigger damage to society by pmarini · · Score: 5, Insightful

    surely the damage done over 15 years to the families of those not employed because of this illegal practice is much bigger than £1.8mln...

    --
    Can I put a spell on those who can't spell?
    Your wheels are loose and they're losing their grip, good you're there.
    1. Re:much bigger damage to society by filekutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree with you totally pmarini. Unfortunately this is just the proverbial iceberg tip, with much more still hidden. These are corporations whose activities the last few decades since Reagan have centered on removal of restrictions, merging of interests with national law, and abolition through demonization of unions.

      --
      I call computer-illiteracy job security
    2. Re:much bigger damage to society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A few key details were left out of the article.

      1.) Did the workers agree to background checks?
      2.) Was the information provided false?

      If no to #1 or yes to #2, they have grounds to sue the company individually. The fine is only from the government. This happens every day in the US, but you don't hear much uproar.

    3. Re:much bigger damage to society by deathlyslow · · Score: 0

      You do realize the story is based in the UK don't you?

      --
      Don't blame me for redundant posts. I can't type very fast. Hence the user ID.
    4. Re:much bigger damage to society by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even if they agreed to a background check, they probably didn't agree to be checked for activities that aren't in any way illegal or reflecting on job performance, such as (FTFA) "ex-shop steward" or "Irish ex-Army".

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    5. Re:much bigger damage to society by CraftyJack · · Score: 1

      This decision establishes that The Consulting Association's actions were illegal. In the US, The Consulting Association would now be the target of lawsuits from workers affected by those illegal actions. I'm not quite sure if it's the same deal in the UK.

    6. Re:much bigger damage to society by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Because it's not like the UK had a leader who more or less followed Ronnie's policies to the letter, is it.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    7. Re:much bigger damage to society by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 0, Troll

      demonization of unions.
      Made far easier since the world has seen what sweetheart deals the UAW set themselves up with and how difficult proper education reform has been due to the teachers unions. Really, unions and their leadership are their own worst enemies.

      --
      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    8. Re:much bigger damage to society by digitig · · Score: 1

      This decision establishes that The Consulting Association's actions were illegal.

      No it doesn't. That won't be established until the court rules on it, and it hasn't come to court yet.

      In the US, The Consulting Association would now be the target of lawsuits from workers affected by those illegal actions. I'm not quite sure if it's the same deal in the UK.

      Not yet, because it's not yet established that the actions were illegal. Even if the ruling goes the way everybody here assumes it already has, all it will establish is that the data was being sold by a company not properly registered with the DCO, not whether the selling of the data is itself illegal. Indeed, it seems it isn't, because (from the RA) 'A spokesman for the Department for Business said it did have the power to make blacklists illegal and would "review whether to use this power if there was compelling evidence that blacklists were being used".' Since the selling of the blacklists is apparently not illegal at the moment, it might not be so easy for those affected to get redress.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    9. Re:much bigger damage to society by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 1

      Hell, I've got karma to burn so with a -1 Troll mod, let's add a -1 offtopic, b/c the kosdot mods don't have a -1 disagree option. Seriously google jobs bank uaw if you don't believe my claim of sweetheart deals. Next google merit pay teachers to see how that union is making reform difficult.

      --
      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    10. Re:much bigger damage to society by g_attrill · · Score: 1

      In this case it's not the checking of the employees that is the focus of attention (it says the companies using the service were written to and warned), but the building of the database. The employee's details were not allowed to be shared in such a way without their permission, and the company wasn't registered to even create such a database. Certain details (such as records of them reporting safety breaches, union membership etc) would be of debatable legality in any database of that tye.

  4. I'm confused by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 1

    How are the company's actions different than those of the government?

    --
    "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    1. Re:I'm confused by jandersen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Does your government sell information about your political activities etc to a cabal of semi-criminals? No? Well, there you have your answer, then.

      Just because you have an ingrown bias that tells that "Everthing the government does is evil, and everything a private business does is sort of OK, even if it is criminal" doesn't mean that it makes sense. You would probably benefit from taking off your blinkers once in a while.

    2. Re:I'm confused by Ninnle+Labs,+LLC · · Score: 1

      The government sells personal information about workers (such as political activies) to companies so that they can illegally vet employees? Care to provide some citations?

    3. Re:I'm confused by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      How are the company's actions different than those of the government?

      Governments can be held accountable for their actions.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    4. Re:I'm confused by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Governments can be held accountable for their actions.

      Really? What country do you live in? I'd like to move there.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    5. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It takes hard work from engaged citizens to make governments accountable.

    6. Re:I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Governments can be held accountable for their actions.

      Really? What country do you live in? I'd like to move there.

      I'm armed!

  5. This is an old, old blacklist by ab8ten · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This blacklist was specifically for the construction industry - for those who haven't RTFA. The terrible thing is that this list, and its sale for money, has been around for years and years. It's the industry's dirty little secret. It's only now they've computerised the records that they can use the Data Protection Act to prosecute. Sadly, I have no doubt that the information will live on somehow. All the major players have fingers in the pie and won't give it up, I think.

    --
    I have no .sig
    1. Re:This is an old, old blacklist by krou · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The Data protection act has been around for about 10 years already in the UK, and from what I can understand, the electronic database has been around for 15 years. They didn't recently digitize it. Of course, before then, it's anybody's guess, but these guys could have been prosecuted 10 years ago.

      --
      'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
    2. Re:This is an old, old blacklist by pjt33 · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's only now they've computerised the records that they can use the Data Protection Act to prosecute.

      That's not true. The DPA covers "information which ... (c) is recorded as part of a relevant filing system or with the intention that it should form part of a relevant filing system", where "relevant filing system" is defined as "any set of information relating to individuals to the extent that, although the information is not processed by means of equipment operating automatically in response to instructions given for that purpose, the set is structured, either by reference to individuals or by reference to criteria relating to individuals, in such a way that specific information relating to a particular individual is readily accessible."

    3. Re:This is an old, old blacklist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The DPA applies to any kind of information - digital or otherwise.

    4. Re:This is an old, old blacklist by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      It's only now they've computerised the records that they can use the Data Protection Act to prosecute.

      Absolute rubbish the UK DPA has applied to paper records since it was updated in was updated in 1998 please get your facts straight

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    5. Re:This is an old, old blacklist by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ....please get your facts straight

      Facts? We don't need facts. This is the Internet!

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  6. Tortuous? by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The article says that The Consulting Association faces a £5,000 fine â" after pulling in £1.8 million over 15 years with its illegal blacklist.

    Are they also open to civil lawsuits from affected employees?

    1. Re:Tortuous? by krou · · Score: 1

      Looks like it. According to the video on the BBC page, the ICO claims that if someone can prove they suffered as a result of this database, they can claim compensation.

      --
      'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
    2. Re:Tortuous? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      So, I wonder what the odds are that potential claimants will be pushed into the delightful catch-22 of "Oh, sure, if you were on the secret list you would be entitled to redress; but secret list is secret, so how are you going to prove that?"

      It happens.

    3. Re:Tortuous? by krou · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, not going to be too easy, but at least they're taking it seriously and offering help. According to news on the ICO's website, "From 16 March the ICO will operate a dedicated enquiry system for people who believe personal information about them may be held on the database. Members of the public are advised not to contact the ICO until 16 March."

      --
      'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
  7. Common practice by benwiggy · · Score: 1

    Anyone remember The Economic League? I'd be surprised if someone wasn't still maintaining it.

    1. Re:Common practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      In fact, this Guardian article suggests that Ian Kerr, the man behind this company, used to work for the Economic League.

  8. "political affiliations" by krou · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just to point out that the original BBC article (when I submitted the story to /.) had a quote from the notes in the illegal database stating that someone was a member of the Communist Party, hence why I mentioned it contained political affiliations. Not sure why the BBC removed this, but just thought I'd mention it in case someone wonders why.

    --
    'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
  9. 4. ????? by Ogive17 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Finally we figure out the 4. ????? before 5. Profit!

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  10. British Paranoia at its finest! by ringbarer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let me get this right:

    British Employers are paranoid that potential employees are Communists or worse. They subscribe to a secret blacklist that potentials have no knowledge of or ability to refute allegations. Anyone blacklisted will not be employed, but the work still needs to be done.

    So they draft in cheap labor from countries that didn't even exist twenty years ago. As these migrant workers aren't on the blacklist, they get cherry picked for work that local labor should have the same rights to apply for. The end result being the rise of local unemployment through no fault of the workers.

    No wonder their economy is fucked.

    --
    "Why did they cancel my favorite Sci-Fi show? I downloaded ALL the episodes!"
    1. Re:British Paranoia at its finest! by myxiplx · · Score: 1

      Christ knows why this got -1, I'd mod you up if I got the chance.

      If this turns out to be even part of the reason why so many foreign workers are being employed, heads need to roll.

    2. Re:British Paranoia at its finest! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If ever a post required a +5 Insightful it's this one!

    3. Re:British Paranoia at its finest! by u38cg · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Foreign workers tend to show up on time and do the job without whining. I'd take half a dozen random Poles over half a dozen random Brits any day. Why British people are so convinced they deserve a job in front of people who work harder and for less than they do is a source of constant mystery to me.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    4. Re:British Paranoia at its finest! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Translation: I'd prefer to employ illegal immigrants because if they complain about dangerous working conditions or being paid less than minimum wage, I can just have them deported rather than doing something about the problem.

    5. Re:British Paranoia at its finest! by rich_r · · Score: 1, Informative

      It'd work if it wasn't for the fact that Poles are entitled to work in the UK.
      Immigrants yes, illegal no.

    6. Re:British Paranoia at its finest! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention a bunch of those migrant workers from countries that didn't even exist 20 years ago... they probably came from a formerly communist nation. ;)

      Sweet irony.

    7. Re:British Paranoia at its finest! by Zaiff+Urgulbunger · · Score: 2, Funny

      Christ knows why this got -1, I'd mod you up if I got the chance.

      Because "ringbarer" is on the secret /. mods Neg-list(TM)? ;)

    8. Re:British Paranoia at its finest! by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      Actually, the economy's fucked because we don't actually make things any more. The trend since the eighties has been for Britain to turn into one big bank. We don't make things - we finance other people to make things, and take a cut of the proceeds. Or rather, we sell their debts on to get the cash up front now and let someone else hold that risk. Or, even more profitably, we wait for someone else to finance yet another someone else to make things, we buy the debt, repackage it, and sell it on to the employees at the firm where they actually make things as a pension scheme.

      A huge slice of the British economy consists of moving money about the place. Or pieces of paper representing money. Or electronic structures representing pieces of paper representing money. Or complex derivatives that at some ultimate remove via several people's promises and a whole lot of liabilities have something somewhere to do with money. And now that the world seems to have noticed that quite a lot of what we thought was money actually isn't, this house of cards is coming down quite fast.

      In the midst of all this, we have a few hundred thousand people who've turned up from Eastern Europe with their old fashioned ways and they're actually making things. I have to say, I'm not going to be the one to complain about them.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    9. Re:British Paranoia at its finest! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      British Employers are paranoid that potential employees are Communists or worse.

      I think you're extrapolating USA anti-communist paranoia to the UK. Trade unions are fairly mainstream - heck, the current ruling party originated as the political arm of the trades unions and they rarely talk about deposing the Queen and hoisting the red flag over London these days (Mind you, the Labour Party and the unions aren't quite as pally these days - the unions having discovered that, whoever you vote for, the Government always gets in). However, union activists might be awkward about pay and conditions...

      ...but quite honestly, even if they were only blacklisting (alleged) alcoholics and thieves, without transparency and accountability that's bad enough.

      So they draft in cheap labor from countries that didn't even exist twenty years ago.

      What? Not their fault, sir. No option, sir. European Union employment mobility and competition laws, sir.

      Now that's a great idea. Of course, any idiot can see that, in order to make a level playing field, you'd first need to harmonize taxes, minimum wages, hiring/firing rules and costs of living across the whole of Europe - or its all going to go pear shaped, especially if you have a recession and unemployment becomes a problem. Trouble is, signing a bit of paper abolishing controls on migrant workers is a lot easier than harmonizing the economies and employment laws of a continent (especially one full of countries that vaccilate between capitalist and socialist governments every few years). Guess what happened...

      No wonder their economy is fucked.

      Britain has always enjoyed a special relationship with our cousins in the USA. Nowhere is this more evident than in the highly effective way we worked together to fuck both our economies (along with many others).

    10. Re:British Paranoia at its finest! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why the hell is this modded Flamebait? It's true! The town I live in has more than it's fair share of people ripping off the Benefits Agency and the ones that complain loudest about East European and Portugese workers are the ones that can't be assed finding a job. Granted, times are tough and a lot of people are losing or having troubling finding new jobs but it doesn't excuse laziness or xenophobia.

  11. Put on your Republican/Tory shoes for a second by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    About 3,213 workers were in the database, and other information included data on personal relationships, political affiliations, and employment histories

    And what's wrong with that? There are plenty of websites that track corporate political donations and rank companies as employers. Seems only fair.

    1. Re:Put on your Republican/Tory shoes for a second by Ninnle+Labs,+LLC · · Score: 2, Informative

      You mean other than the fact that blacklists like that database are illegal?

    2. Re:Put on your Republican/Tory shoes for a second by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You mean other than the fact that blacklists like that database are illegal?

      If you rely on the law for your morals then you have no morals at all.

    3. Re:Put on your Republican/Tory shoes for a second by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can't see the difference between secret blacklists and a CNN page that ranks corporations, you clearly must be a fucking idiot.

    4. Re:Put on your Republican/Tory shoes for a second by Ninnle+Labs,+LLC · · Score: 1

      And you possibly think I care, how?

    5. Re:Put on your Republican/Tory shoes for a second by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      Seems only fair.

      Let us know when we get secret blacklists of employers so that we can badmouth them without risk of reprisal, and we'll call it even.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    6. Re:Put on your Republican/Tory shoes for a second by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do not rely on the law for my morals, I rely on the law for YOUR morals.

    7. Re:Put on your Republican/Tory shoes for a second by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      The database itself isn't illegal. What's illegal is not telling the subjects of its existence, not giving them the opportunity to have information contained in it corrected, and some of the recruitment decisions made on the basis of it.

    8. Re:Put on your Republican/Tory shoes for a second by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      glassdoor.com ?

  12. Inaccurate summary by Apatharch · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...what a surprise.

    The article does not say that the company is being fined £5000; it's the owner himself who faces prosecution, and hence a criminal record.

    1. Re:Inaccurate summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The least they could do is feed his weiner to a pony AND fine him £5000

    2. Re:Inaccurate summary by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Funny

      Perhaps we could put the owner on some sort of blacklist...

    3. Re:Inaccurate summary by mgblst · · Score: 1

      We could, but apparently we couldn't tell anyone about it, at least not in the UK.

  13. I've got to hand it to you... by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 0, Troll

    That's some spectacular grammar.

    --
    (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
  14. solution: by Anonymous+Admin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Charge them with 3213 instances and fine them per instance. The profit disappears and so does the motivation.

    1. Re:solution: by Animaether · · Score: 1

      Isn't there a solution proposed in many legal systems? Put oversimplified: "You cannot profit from the crime you committed"?

      I.e. they would have to give back* the 1.8 million pounds PLUS the 5 thousand pound fine. More than likely they don't have that 1.8 million laying around somewhere, having spent much of it in time, so that'll be fun to pay back... that 5 thousand would look rather trivial in comparison. This extends to doing interviews, selling movie rights, etc. - all of it would go back into paying off that 1.8 million (and 5k in change).

      * the only problem in these types of cases is.. who do you give it back to? certainly not to the companies who purchased that data. recompense those affected? how to determine if they -were- in fact affected? etc.

    2. Re:solution: by canajin56 · · Score: 1

      They already did that I think. The company is toast. The $5000 fine and/or jail time is for the owner, with them also looking for other people to charge criminally.

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    3. Re:solution: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just being in said database should be compensated, out of the culprits pocket.

      How much, I'll leave open.

    4. Re:solution: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't there a solution proposed in many legal systems? Put oversimplified: "You cannot profit from the crime you committed"?

      I'm Fred Goodwin, you insensitive clod!

    5. Re:solution: by mormop · · Score: 1

      Better than that. Fine them the average annual wage lost by the builders on their list, say £15,000 a year, times 3213 builders, times the number of years the list operated = £722,925,000 spread evenly across the data company and the customers that used them.

      --
      Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
  15. Re:F$cked Company anyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or google search?

    Ripoff Report?

    about a million other blogs, sites etc,

  16. Prosecute the users of the data harshly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The UK government needs to make an example of the users of the information not the supplier of the information otherwise database will be moved offshore to a country where it will be diplomatically difficult to eliminate. Users of the database will make payments though some scheme which is difficult to trace.

  17. Breaking: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    holy shit, I'm horny as all fucking hell! time to call up one of them craigslist hookers! damn i need some pussy

  18. Re:F$cked Company anyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    None of those are secret, like the blacklist the article is about. Compaies can refute claims made in blogs, etc.

  19. mod parent up, underrated by Travoltus · · Score: 1

    That's "if" it actually happens.

    --
    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
  20. Well, maybe a little obtuse by cdrguru · · Score: 1

    Let's say that I run a company and we are absolutely committed to never, ever hiring an "ex-shop steward". Let's assume there isn't a service on the Internet where I can look up people to determine if they were ever involved in union leadership.

    What am I to do? Well, I could just hire people in an uninformed way and hope for the best. Right?

    Wrong. I would (obviously) do whatever it takes to make sure that prospective employees are not and never have been union-affiliated. Sure, this might result in some false positives. Who cares? The mission of a hiring manager is to weed out undesirable canadidates as quickly as possible. That means looking for any reason to not hire someone, without ever talking to them.

    If you get 100 resumes to look through for a single position, what else do you do? So one more criteria gets added for "union-friendly" and it is just one more filter that resumes have to pass through. And interviews. And background checks. And reference checks.

    Does anyone reslly believe that some secret database makes that much difference? I can assure you, if anything it would cut down the false positives. So which would you rather have, getting excluded from a job becaose of something real or getting excluded because of something that just-might-be? Because 99% of the time, you're getting excluded anyway. See, if I get 100 resumes for one position 99 of them must, by definition, be excluded. It is just a matter of how and for what reason.

    1. Re:Well, maybe a little obtuse by VJ42 · · Score: 1

      I would (obviously) do whatever it takes to make sure that prospective employees are not and never have been union-affiliated.

      Then you would be acting unlawfully, here in the UK you have a right to be represented by a Union, not employing someone because of union related activities would be illegal in itself. Similarly, you can't refuse to employ someone if they refuse union membership (as seems to be the case over in the states judging by previous /. posts complaining about unions)

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
    2. Re:Well, maybe a little obtuse by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      It is illegal to discriminate against people for engaging in trade union activities.

    3. Re:Well, maybe a little obtuse by Ironica · · Score: 1

      Then you would be acting unlawfully, here in the UK you have a right to be represented by a Union, not employing someone because of union related activities would be illegal in itself.

      It's also illegal in the US.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    4. Re:Well, maybe a little obtuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as seems to be the case over in the states judging by previous /. posts complaining about unions

      Most states aren't "union shop" states where the union can force everyone to join or quit. Several states don't even let unions take your money if you're not a member (some states let the unions take a "negotiation fee" from non-members).

    5. Re:Well, maybe a little obtuse by VJ42 · · Score: 1

      as seems to be the case over in the states judging by previous /. posts complaining about unions

      Most states aren't "union shop" states where the union can force everyone to join or quit. Several states don't even let unions take your money if you're not a member (some states let the unions take a "negotiation fee" from non-members).

      Here in the UK the unions have no rights at all over people who are non-members. The Unions in the UK were emasculated by Margret Thatcher, ironically I think that they are better organisations for it.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
  21. Logic much? by danaris · · Score: 1

    I think the mods' problem with you is your erroneous extrapolation of a couple of (admittedly important) problems with particular unions to the conclusion that all unions are evil and must be destroyed wherever they are found.

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
  22. It will happen. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Union leaders were taling all day about this.

    There was legislation in place, that the government did not enact, because the existence of such black lists hasn't been probed at that point!

    I am not really making this up. Check the BBC or other British media...

    The current Labour government is a complete embarrassment to the notion of Democracy.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  23. And before somebody asks.... by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    ... how would anybody would ever know? you should know that in the UK you have the right to see all the documentation about how a company reached the decision to hire a certain person to fill a position when you are applying for that position.

    If they can't prove they did it based on objective criteria they would be in deep shit...

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  24. don't worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google won't do the same thing once it is given control of all federal, state, and local data.

    Of course they won't do the same thing.

    We can be categorically assured that they won't do the same thing.

    They definitely won't do the same thing.

    And if they do the same thing they will pay a $7500 fine just as in the UK which will stop them from doing it again.

  25. Do not give sellers/buyers of the data your custom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Besides government fines, the average person can withhold their custom from the companies that engaged in this behavior. Let them know why you will not do business with them.