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US Forgets How To Make Trident Missiles
Hugh Pickens writes "The US and the UK are trying to refurbish the aging W76 warheads that tip Trident missiles to prolong their life and ensure they are safe and reliable but plans have been put on hold because US scientists have forgotten how to manufacture a mysterious but very hazardous component of the warhead codenamed Fogbank. 'NNSA had lost knowledge of how to manufacture the material because it had kept few records of the process when the material was made in the 1980s, and almost all staff with expertise on production had retired or left the agency,' says the report by a US congressional committee. Fogbank is thought by some weapons experts to be a foam used between the fission and fusion stages of the thermonuclear bomb on the Trident Missile and US officials say that manufacturing Fogbank requires a solvent cleaning agent which is 'extremely flammable' and 'explosive,' and that the process involves dealing with 'toxic materials' hazardous to workers. 'This is like James Bond destroying his instructions as soon as he has read them,' says John Ainslie, the co-ordinator of the Scottish Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, adding that 'perhaps the plans for making Fogbank were so secret that no copies were kept.' Thomas D'Agostino, administrator or the US National Nuclear Security Administration, told a congressional committee that the administration was spending 'a lot of money' trying to make 'Fogbank' at Y-12, but 'we're not out of the woods yet.'"
Excellent. Lets hope they can't make it and it means they have to get rid of them. Due to the current economic crisis, hopefully they can't afford to come up with a replacement.
In the current global climate, there's no point in having nuclear missiles. Those who could strike us are no longer interested and are now allies and those who are hostile and nuclear capable can't reach us.
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Maybe we shouldn't be refurbishing these warheads, then? Who, precisely, will we be using them on?
I think this speaks of a larger problem in how the US government organizes itself. NASA had the same issue with some spaceship components because new people were not trained on how legacy systems were built. This issue is happening through many departments in the US government. The US government's extreme isolationism and disinformation for public forums allows them to be years ahead in technology that could help the general public, but means that the people can't benefit from the technology they fund until it has been independently discovered or rendered a relic by some new technology.
How about you just decommission the warheads and missiles?
I mean Obama is all about curtailing military spending. Here's a good cut, right? /hippyliberalantiweaponcommentary
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
This is why it's important to document your code... or your warheads. Either or.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
While I am very concerned about this, I am not surprised at all. It is by coincidence that I was reading this website and found out that despite perceived Russian problems, the USA is at least a decade behind Russia in missile technology!
Below are two snippets of the whole article. Scary!
"Despite the Pentagon's development of a new generation of hypersonic missile, the U.S. is still a decade behind Russia in high-speed cruise-missile design, according to defense analysts. According to the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency, the U.S. military is developing a new hypersonic robot missile reported to be capable of traveling in excess of six times the speed of sound and armed with its own miniature smart bombs. The new weapon, called the Advanced Rapid Response Missile Demonstrator, or ARRMD, is designed to cruise at over 4,000 miles an hour and strike targets hundreds of miles away in only a few seconds. "
"Nevertheless, defense analysts agree that the U.S. is fully a decade behind Russia in high-speed cruise missile designs. Russia currently deploys and exports the supersonic SS-N-22 Moskit cruise missile, NATO codenamed "Sunburn." The SS-N-22 is considered the most lethal anti-ship missile in the world, and flies at over 2.5 times the speed of sound only a few feet from the surface of the water." [This speed amounts to almost 1,700 miles per hour, or 28 miles per minute]."
Folks, we can't let this happen.
There is a serious side to this. The US hasn't actually built any nukes, stuck 'en on a rocket, fired them and had a successful BOOM for well over 40 years. That must be coming up for 2 generations of rocket / nuclear scientists and the third generation is now in training. That means that the "new guys" will learn from people who didn't have any practical experience and in turn learned from the people who actually *did it* nearly 50 years ago.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
See, this is what happens when you don't continue to spend money on extremely advanced engineering projects: you lose the technology. Technology isn't just a textbook and some blueprints, it requires the experience and knowledge of scientists and engineers. It's a living thing: shelve it, and it dies.
It would be nice to think this would serve as an abject lesson to congresscritters, next time they think about cutting funding for something 'we don't need right now.' Although I'm cynical enough not to believe that.
Nuclear weapons are not meant to "win". They are meant to ensure everyone loses. That in and of itself is the deterrent to using nuclear weapons.
Yes, because making a rocket go a few extra thousand miles is such a challenge compared to developing a nuclear bomb.
Actually, it is. The USA got nukes well over a decade before creating the first ICBM (1957). The first nuclear bombs were dropped from a plane. Developing the kind of aircraft that could get through the defences of the average nuclear power is even harder than developing an ICBM. You can't just load it into a conventional bomber and hope for the best. WW2-style bombing raids were only viable because the planes were cheap and it didn't matter if a load of them were shot down.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I think if you want to survive, as a nation, the best thing to do in response to a nuclear attack by a terrorist organization would be to STFU and fucking NOT retaliate.
This is the equivallent of telling a rape victim to lay back and enjoy it.
No.
On second thought, HELL NO.
You, sir/madam, are an imbecile.
As to the rest of the manure you're shoveling about the world being a better place if the US disappeared? Well, that really doesn't require an answer, now does it?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
because making a rocket go a few extra thousand miles is such a challenge compared to developing a nuclear bomb.
Quite so. There are plenty of horrible, horrible non-nuclear weapons out there that can be delivered by ICBM that aren't nearly as difficult to develop. A good solid hit on downtown Washington and you've made as much as a political statement as a mushroom cloud. Nukes are only 'The Bomb' because of their emotional impact. Consider: people turned aircraft into weapons and now every airline passenger is treated like a criminal. Arguably more people have been effected by the World Trade Centre attacks than nuclear weapons. The sad truth is that you can kill people with a cricket bat if you try hard enough. Disposing of nukes, or guns or cricket bats won't stop violence. The only way to ensure lasting peace is through diplomacy and not engaging in international dipshittery.
Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
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And people wonder why I think the best way to secure peace is to get rid of the US...
I don't know why you think that, but the rest of the world doesn't exactly have a good track record in keeping the peace. Look at Europe before the US started stationing soldiers there in 1941 - two world wars. Or look at the parts of the world the US isn't interested in, such as Sub-Saharan Africa.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
Freezing point of water changes with pressure. I imagine that these subs are not firing at the surface but rather below it?
Bored at work? Play Game!
Also, the Arctic is in fact an Ocean...Oceans contain salt which dramatically lowers the freezing point of water.
Bored at work? Play Game!
I understand the reason why aircraft can be preferred to a satellite. But there is no real reason any more for a pilot on a surveillance aircraft. In fact, for the most part the only reason a pilot is in a U-2 is to get it up to working altitude and then get it back down. The performance envelope is such that it is usually on autopilot when working. So really the pilot is just extra baggage and a huge limitation. Something like the global hawk is much better and I'm sure there are/will be much better options coming. The jamming thing is really irrelevant.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
In my view, if even one of those thousands of civilians was against attacking the US, the bombing was not worth it.
So we should have invaded them instead? Take a look at what the Japanese civilians on Saipan did when confronted with defeat and tell me that less of them would have died if we had invaded the Japanese home islands.
But when you retaliate a sneak attack on a military base with an attack that causes more than 100x as many deaths, many of them civilians, then you've overstepped your right. That's a criminal act.
War isn't supposed to be pretty. When you mobilize the entire resources of your nation to fight said war then the entire resources of your nation become legitimate targets. Call it criminal all you want but we didn't start the war. We just ended it as quickly as possible.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Didn't you read the article/summary? The torrent is dead, because all the seeds went away.
On the other hand, we should just ask China. I'm sure they have some copies of the recipe laying around...
I traded all my mod points for these magic beans.
I'm not usually the conspiracy-theory type, but I suspect that the USAF already is flying an SR-71 replacement and this is why they have been retired.
Spy Satellites and UAVs certainly cover parts of the SR-71 mission profile. However, what about battlefield survailence of a major military adversary? Current UAVs cannot survive in combat. Sure, they can loiter over Basra all day when nobody has anything other than a rifle to shoot at them with. Try to get footage of downtown Tehran with a UAV and you'll just have UAV-parts raining all over the place. Satellites certainly work better, but they're very limited in coverage and have no loiter capability. They're also very vulnerable if somebody is determined enough to actually start shooting them down.
I'm not saying you couldn't do the job with a UAV with SR-71-like capabilities. That is certainly an option. Perhaps one already exists. However, neither satellites or the currently public UAV options make the SR-71 completely obsolete. Either the US doesn't think it needs ariel recon of hot areas, or it has some other way of doing it that nobody knows about.
you can download the instruction from the Pirate Bay...
Just wait a few weeks; you might be right ...
My immediate thought was related: The US government probably does have the info hidden away in some obscure department's archives, hidden behind a wall of secrecy and classification. The repair guys just don't have the right clearances, and instead of saying "We can't give you that information", the agency says "We don't have that information".
It could also be a case of Clarke's third law. The information is stored away somewhere, but the repair crews don't know the name of the archive or who runs it, and the people at the archive haven't heard that anyone's looking for it. And chances are that if you ask for the info using the part's name, they won't be able to find it; you have to tell them the code number (or whatever they call it) for that particular part.
That is, the information could be hidden by ignorance and incompetence, not by any active efforts to hide or eliminate the information. That happens all the time any large organization, businesses as well as governments.
Actually, my other thought was "Did they google it?" Chances are that google could tell them the part number(s), and maybe also the torrent name at the Pirate Bay.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
"I think if you want to survive, as a nation, the best thing to do in response to a nuclear attack by a terrorist organization would be to STFU and fucking NOT retaliate"
It shows how child-like you are to say such a thing. And that's not a compliment.
The best deterrent to an attack is to let the enemy know that if they attack, they will be destroyed utterly and without delay. I know you think the world is all filled with people who just want to get along and conflict is a result of misunderstanding between people. It's not.
And yes, I realize that you're speaking hypothetically of a terrorist attack. One where they figure out how to build a working A-Bomb and a delivery mechanism. But once you discover the enemy, you must destroy them utterly. Destroy their family, their way of life, everything about them.
Conflict arises when you have something that I want. Land, resources, even ideological differences but they all amount to the same thing. I'm going to compel you to do something or take something from you. And I'm willing to do it because I think you're too weak to resist me.
Do you have any clue why the US and USSR never fought WW III? It's because each side was afraid of the consequences of a war. It was so awful that it was better to yell at each other from a distance and fight some skirmishes than engage in outright war.
As to the "millions have families". Of course they do. Which makes them think really hard about engaging in a war with the United States.
The idea that a good defense is a provocative stance is frankly idiotic. The idea that I will destroy you, your family, your way of life, your lands... everything! if you attack keeps you at a safe distance shouting slogans. That's the way it should be.
Doesn't follow. The US didn't really ramp up R&D for a inter-continental delivery system for the nukes until several years after WWII and there was less urgency on the matter. Moreover massive resources were still being concentrated on improving nukes. Had ICBM research been as pressured as the original Manhattan Project ICBM's might have been a reality much earlier. Of course without such a dangerous payload they would have been useless, but still.
My wife and I do this all the time. We hide stuff from the kids in a "safe place"... only a week later we can't remember where the safe place was.
I think that's what happened here. Every body properly changed their passwords and cleaned out file drawers... and nobody did the diligence to make sure all the pieces were accounted for... because that would be "insecure" for there to be a checklist. The instructions are probably buried, like you said, and the only people interested in looking thru the archives don't have clearance... I'd venture even the archivists don't have clearance to open files not requested...
I agree with the other guy too. The DoD has been pushing to restart Nuclear Manufacturing of NEW devices since the last prez came to office. If only for the shock value of making new weapons to put some fear out there. I can't believe the current prez would fall for the ruse and burn that kind of international goodwill he's trying to muster.
No. WWII booming raids worked because SAM basically did not exist. Once radar and solid fuel rocket engines were somewhat perfected, things changed rather dramatically. However fighters are still somewhat needed. aka the F22.
But a nuke can be small. Not suitcase small, but shipping container small with enough shielding to make detection hard. Finding this out at the boarder may not be a win if it detonates upon "attempted detection".
The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
Well, the current prez doesn't need to look like a pussy in front of the rest of the world either. In that article, the push was for updating making replacement warheads and the like, with no new capabilities other than to replace again cold war stock. The Russians and Chinese are keeping their nukes up to date....why should we not do the same?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Absolute BS.
First... how did Bush get into office the second time? The Electoral College. So if someone stood up and voted against him.... in fact if a majority of the population stood up and voted against him it made no difference. He manipulated the system, and got the right votes to put him in office.
So, all those people who stood up and voted against... what are THEY supposed to do now, so you don't lob them into that guilty bucket? They tried. They attempted to use the system. They did what they could do without getting shot.
I am an adult, and I am in the US. I am innocent of any of the crimes of my government. If it was in my power to stop those crimes from happening, I would have done it. However it was NOT in my power to be able to stop my government from doing any and/or all of the things I found to be wrong and/or offensive. If I do anything more, I'll end up behind bars indefinitely under the Patriot Act.
Nothing that Obama does is going to make a difference for the better. As long as we attempt to work within the corrupt and broken system to fix it, we are going to fail. We proved once before that it took a bloody revolution to make the necessary changes. We proved that Revolution works. The country as it is, is not the country our founding fathers intended, in any way. We are in need of another revolution, to fix our current government.
"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." -D. Adams
No..we are not, and to keep it that way....we should have nukes pointed at them to deter them from sending one at us first strike. The MAD situation you know.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........