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New Zealand's Recording Industry CEO Tries to Defend New Draconian Law

An anonymous reader writes "Campbell Smith, CEO of the RIAA equivalent in New Zealand, has written an opinion piece for one of New Zealand's largest daily papers, in which he tries to justify the new 'presumed guilty' copyright law. This law allows recording industry members to watch file-sharing activity and notify ISPs of users who are downloading material. The copyright holder can then demand that an ISP disconnect that user — without the user ever having a chance to demonstrate their evidence."

269 comments

  1. What a coincidence by sakdoctor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I presume politicians are corrupt until proven honest.

    1. Re:What a coincidence by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I presume politicians are corrupt until proven honest.

      I presume CEOs aren't really politicians, although they usually own a few ;-P

    2. Re:What a coincidence by Kranerian · · Score: 5, Funny

      I presume politicians are corrupt until proven honest.

      I presume all politicians are corrupt until... actually, forget the "until" part.

      --
      Do you have any idea how long it takes to dig graves for twenty-three oak trees?
    3. Re:What a coincidence by jesterzog · · Score: 1

      In New Zealand's case (and as a New Zealander), I think it's more just a case of some politicians being ignorant and/or misinformed. Until quite recently, I don't think many NZ Members of Parliament saw copyright as much of a priority for consideration in the face of some of the other things.

    4. Re:What a coincidence by skuzzlebutt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I presume they are all corrupt until they run for office again and I forget everything I've learned over the last two/four/six years.

      Sometimes a democracy seems like a bad relationship that you just can't shake...you know you're being lied to, but we manage to convince ourselves over and over that a psychotic date is better than no date at all.

      --
      My debut novel AMITY now available: http://jeremydbrooks.c
    5. Re:What a coincidence by bpkiwi · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sorry, but this was blatent corruption.

      Section 92 of the copyright ammendment act was written at the prompting of the entertainment industry. It was then widely criticised during public review of the proposed law, and removed. But, surprise suprise, it was magically re-inserted after the public consultation period ended.

    6. Re:What a coincidence by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 3, Funny

      I presume CEOs aren't really politicians, although they usually own a few ;-P

      Actually, in this economy, most of us can only afford to rent a politician once in a while.

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    7. Re:What a coincidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      In capitalist New York, Politician rents YOU!

    8. Re:What a coincidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      You were only modded insightful because slashdotters thought that was useful dating/relationship advice.

    9. Re:What a coincidence by Gible · · Score: 5, Informative

      Worse, at the prompting of the US entertainment industry in order to obtain a dubiously valued free trade agreement.

      --
      ~/ One man's opinions is a lifetime of pain. /~
    10. Re:What a coincidence by zonky · · Score: 1

      Er, it is the result of wider international treaties which NZ has agreed to, largely in pursuit of a Free Trade deal. I do totally agree that International treaties which limit NZ's sovereignty, do need scrutiny by the public, and parliament.

    11. Re:What a coincidence by M-RES · · Score: 1

      I'm hoping the Maori peoples stand up and say no to this - I wouldn't like to fight them! ;D

    12. Re:What a coincidence by Arker · · Score: 1

      Q. What's an honest politician?

      A. One who stays bought.

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    13. Re:What a coincidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey! Don't knock psychotic dates.

      blah, blah, blah, you insensitive clod.

    14. Re:What a coincidence by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's only specific street corners in New York, you insensitive clod!

    15. Re:What a coincidence by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 1

      Q. How do you tell when a politician is lying?

      A. Their lips are moving.

    16. Re:What a coincidence by duckInferno · · Score: 1

      I'm hoping the Maori peoples stand up and say no to this - I wouldn't like to fight them! ;D

      The term "New Zealander" includes Maori, just as it includes all other racial backgrounds that make up the people of Aotearoa.

      And yeah they'd kick some arse :). Well, maybe. I think Pa are getting a bit outdated.

      --
      Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it -- I'm huge!
    17. Re:What a coincidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Facism is just a marriage: We originally choose our date and then we get married (through lies). Stuck with our spouse for the next 20+ years.

      Sometimes it's an arranged marriage our spouse and their friends.

    18. Re:What a coincidence by Drishmung · · Score: 1
      --
      Protoplasm. Quiet Protoplasm. I like quiet protoplasm.
    19. Re:What a coincidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The positions of "CEO" and "politician" are on the same career path; it's not just politicians that are to be presumed corrupt.

    20. Re:What a coincidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    21. Re:What a coincidence by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      No it is a gross abuse of the most basic principle of law, your are innocent until proven guilty. So some company sends through a text file with some log records and gets you account cancelled without monetary recompense. Now if you want the account reconnected because the charges are false, you must now pay for the time and effort and attempt to prove that you didn't upload those files, hmm, don't keep a digitally recorded log of all your internet activities, well tough luck.

      Did anyone notice that subtle shift from uploading content to accusations of downloading content and exactly what are the penalties for false accusations. So how much can the end user get back from the ISP and from the copyright claimant when they fail to prove your guilt, not when you fail to prove your innocence.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  2. Right to... by Anenome · · Score: 5, Funny

    Apparently the law also specifies you have the right to confess your guilt, and pay your fine with a smile, also.

    --
    "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist"
    1. Re:Right to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apparently the law also specifies you have the right to confess your guilt, and pay your fine with a smile, also.

      There. See? Nothing at all to worry about. Everyone's rights are being respected.

      Nothing to see here people. Move along.

    2. Re:Right to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently the law also specifies you have the right to confess your guilt, and pay your fine with a smile, also.

      Which is why I've had a smiley tattooed on both my buttcheeks.

    3. Re:Right to... by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

      I will be interested to see how sue your customer works for them.

    4. Re:Right to... by zobier · · Score: 1

      Judge: [donning red nose] I hereby sentence you to be hanged by the neck until you cheer up.

      --
      Me lost me cookie at the disco.
  3. Simple to repeal this... by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 5, Interesting

    1) Officially copyright your own material
    2) Contact ISP's of all lawmakers and Judges you can find
    3) Get their internet cut off
    4) Watch the media and political storm
    ...
    ???
    Profit?

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
    1. Re:Simple to repeal this... by PIBM · · Score: 1

      In this case I presume you would upload the content toward the judges& lawmakers, thus they would not be caught downloading but being uploaded to. Does it still count ? :)

    2. Re:Simple to repeal this... by internerdj · · Score: 1

      Better use: 1) Same step 2) Contact ISP's of New zealand's recording industry and their "security" professionals 3) Get their internet cut off 4) No more stupid laws bought and paid for by the NZRI because they haven't a clue what is going on in the tubes ... 5) Oh and profit

    3. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What do you mean "caught"? It no longer matters whether they're actually guilty.

    4. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Doesn't work. Much like when a record exec's kids were caught pirating, the punishment will be carefully avoided for them. No, this is a prison and system intended to control you and I in order to extract money for them. Thinking that the same standards of law might ever be applied to both groups is lunacy of the highest order.

      What would all that money and power be good for otherwise?

    5. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Camann · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Okay, from a quick perusal of TFA:

      "What would happen is simple. Right holders could log on to public file-sharing sites, just as anyone can, and note which IP addresses are being used to upload pre-release music or films or large amounts of copyright-infringing material.

      They would then prepare evidence, complete with details of the names of the copyrighted files being uploaded, exact timestamps and the protocol used, and send it to the relevant ISP. They would never see the personal details of the person behind that IP address."

      So basically you just take a screenshot, edit the IP addresses to match the judges/lawmakers, and send it to ISPs. Apparently that's proof enough.

      --
      I can't believe you don't know what a Hasemalphaginnojinglanaporphomism is.
    6. Re:Simple to repeal this... by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      From what I've seen, most judges and lawmakers have no idea what the internet even is.

      Presumably they won't even notice if it gets cut off!

    7. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until you get a local equivalent to the US's 20/20 to expose the *downloading* by the execs or government officials - or better yet, government offices, then ask why they weren't shut-off - in front of the entire country.

    8. Re:Simple to repeal this... by PIBM · · Score: 1

      I should have RTFA, but I expected them to move parts of the proof process so that they have to validate the logs provided, at least. IE, has the user reported as infringing actually ever downloaded from there.

    9. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Zerth · · Score: 1

      How? The ISP doesn't keep track of that, from lack of storage space if nothing else. Anything the accuser could provide is trivially forged, by either the accuser or a 3rd party.

    10. Re:Simple to repeal this... by PIBM · · Score: 1

      Well, that totally depend on where you live. One of my friend here received such a letter. They had the packet size, had the content of some of them (too bad he had not used any encryption on that connection) showing that he had downloaded a movie.

    11. Re:Simple to repeal this... by russ1337 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've just been checking out the New Zealand Recording Industry Association website hoping to find some images that they are unlikely to own. I'd go so far as to spend hours searching for their owner and press them to inform the RIANZ ISP to have them cut off.

    12. Re:Simple to repeal this... by russ1337 · · Score: 1

      anyone know how I can grep torrent trackers to find what is being shared from here?:

      IP address: 202.41.139.3
      Host name: www.rianz.org.nz
      Alias:
      www.rianz.org.nz
      202.41.139.3 is from New Zealand(NZ) in region Oceana

    13. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Camann · · Score: 2, Informative

      Going to the source now: Source

      The whole of "section 92A":

      92A Internet service provider must have policy for terminating accounts of repeat infringers
      (1) An Internet service provider must adopt and reasonably implement a policy that provides for termination, in appropriate circumstances, of the account with that Internet service provider of a repeat infringer.
      (2) In subsection (1), repeat infringer means a person who repeatedly infringes the copyright in a work by using 1 or more of the Internet services of the Internet service provider to do a restricted act without the consent of the copyright owner.

      So basically all this adds is that, on top of what's already in place, if someone says you infringe more than once, then the ISP has to cut you off. Everything else already exists under the current law. I've tried looking but I don't see much in the way of what is "proof" beyond 92D:

      92D Requirements for notice of infringement
      A notice referred to in section 92C(3) mustâ"
      (a) contain the information prescribed by regulations made under this Act; and
      (b) be signed by the copyright owner or the copyright ownerâ(TM)s duly authorised agent.

      Maybe some lawyer can shed light on this, but IANAL.

      --
      I can't believe you don't know what a Hasemalphaginnojinglanaporphomism is.
    14. Re:Simple to repeal this... by zonky · · Score: 1

      And there is nothing to stop you immediately signing up with another ISP. in short, the law is utterly pointless.

    15. Re:Simple to repeal this... by TheMCP · · Score: 1

      Don't forget to submit complaints about the copyright violations you suspect of the recording industry and all its corporate officers and its investigators too. Remember, you want them to run screaming to the legislature to beg for the repeal of the law themselves. It won't take them long after their internet gets cut off and they're unable to sell any music online or transact any business online or spy on anyone any more.

    16. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      2) Contact ISP's of all lawmakers and Judges you can find
      3) Get their internet cut off
      4) Watch the media and political storm

      If only that could work. But it won't. And I'll outline why, even though you're probably at least partly joking.

      The code of practice originally suggested by a consortium of ISPs (PDF) would have appointed the ISPs as the arbiter of which infringement notices were valid and which weren't. Personally I see little problem with that, if the ISPs are willing to assume the burden, as I see no reason why an ISP would be biased in the matter.

      Of course the record publishers weren't having any of that: it's pretty clear now that they won't accept any code of practice unless it gives them some kind of control over choosing arbitrators. That means that a plan like yours would simply hit a brick wall, unfortunately, as there's no way that arbitrators would ever be chosen who would ever rule against lawmakers and judges without compelling reasons.

      What's unclear to me is why the ISPs need to get their code of practice pre-approved by the record publishers. I've written to my MP and he has no idea either.

    17. Re:Simple to repeal this... by M-RES · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, it showed that somebody using that IP address had downloaded a movie. It doesn't prove who it was. It COULD be you, or your spouse, or a child in your household. Or it could well be your neighbour or someone parked outside your house - they're not proving that the bill payer downloaded the file or even willingly provided a service to do so.

    18. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I live in NZ and have done a bit of research on this. You have to register your organisation before you can start making allegations. (ie. only the big boys will be able to play that game).

    19. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    20. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Space_Pirate_Arrr · · Score: 1

      You need to be a registered copyright holding organisation to make complaints. Step zero in you plan needs to be "register as a copyright holding organisation (at great expense in time and money)."

    21. Re:Simple to repeal this... by PIBM · · Score: 0

      They proved that your internet connection was used to do something that infringe the copyrights of somebody else. It does not matter who really did it, since you are responsible for the use of your internet connection...

    22. Re:Simple to repeal this... by duckInferno · · Score: 1

      What do you mean "caught"? It no longer matters whether they're actually guilty.

      Mod this AC up -- this is the crux of the issue and is not to be skipped over.

      --
      Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it -- I'm huge!
    23. Re:Simple to repeal this... by ekhben · · Score: 1

      Connection fees aren't negligible. I'd say it's cheaper to buy any music or movies you want than it is to reconnect every few weeks, but I doubt you'll need to actually engage in unauthorised p2p transfers of copyright material in order to fall victim to this sort of law.

    24. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Tuoqui · · Score: 2, Informative

      I see no reason why an ISP would be biased in the matter.

      Time Warner Cable is owned by Disney or owns Disney.
      Comcast owns Cable TV stations.
      etc...

      Now tell me if ISPs have no reason to be biased in a matter when they are both content producers and ISPs.

      --
      09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
      +2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
    25. Re:Simple to repeal this... by thoughtfulbloke · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It was pointed out in the publicaddress.net (major NZ blog) forums a few weeks back that when people make submissions to parliament, they retain their copyright on the submission. When parliament makes received submissions available on its website, it may well be doing so without a licence to reproduce the material. It was also pointed out that if anyone pushed this, the government could legislate themselves an exemption.

    26. Re:Simple to repeal this... by shark72 · · Score: 0

      You're correct -- they're assuming that the owner of the IP address will take some personal responsibility for how it's used. If said owner doesn't want to catch heat, they'll give everybody in the household a "don't do anything illegal, mmmkay?" speech, if said household members really need to have this explained to them.

      As for somebody using your wireless connection without your authorization and potentially doing illegal things with it... again, this is a good opportunity for personal responsibility to make an appearance. Securing your wireless connection from abuse by your neighbors is just common sense.

      Regardless of your feelings on piracy, both of these tactics are hugely in your self interest.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    27. Re:Simple to repeal this... by phyrz · · Score: 1

      when my car gets stolen am i responsible for the ensuing high speed chase and the death of a small family?

      --
      Don't point that gun at him, he's an unpaid intern!
    28. Re:Simple to repeal this... by AmherstburgVision · · Score: 1

      1) Officially copyright your own material 2) Contact ISP's of all lawmakers and Judges you can find 3) Get their internet cut off 4) Watch the media and political storm ... ??? Profit?

      I like it!

      --
      http://www.AmherstburgVisionCentre.com
    29. Re:Simple to repeal this... by PIBM · · Score: 1

      If it was your son, most likely. If the one who was 'really' driving ran away and they have no proof it wasn't you, then you are fucked.

    30. Re:Simple to repeal this... by ykiwi · · Score: 1

      NO - only the RIAA and similar can do this and have the ISPs listen. Under the proposed code of practice the little guys can't easily make complaints.

    31. Re:Simple to repeal this... by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Securing your wireless connection from abuse by your neighbors is just common sense.

      That's impossible.
      You can deny your neighbors any use of your wireless connection at all, but if there were some way to just secure it against abuse then your ISP could just do exactly the same thing in the first place and secure your internet connection against abuse.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  4. Presumed guilty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One wonder what precautions there are in the law against abuse?

    I mean, If I complain that I saw Mr. Smith sharing stuff copyrighted by me, what would be the consequences?

    1. Re:Presumed guilty by Jurily · · Score: 1

      One wonder what precautions there are in the law against abuse?

      Most probably none whatsoever.

    2. Re:Presumed guilty by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      So you would look at Mr. Smith's torrents and claim that they were your content? I guess the ISP would want to take a look at the file, but that would involve them risking violating your copyright... I guess you have to provide evidence of guilt, and I guess that (as with the DMCA and other such laws) there are penalties for lying about that kind of thing. So, you'd probably end up in jail.

    3. Re:Presumed guilty by ChefInnocent · · Score: 1

      Well, if the NZ system is anything like the US system -- money. I'm sure that it seems to completely miss the point of your question, but it doesn't. Money buys "justice", the rest of us simply bask in the "benevolence" of the gracious people like Mr. Smith.

    4. Re:Presumed guilty by bpkiwi · · Score: 1

      Ahh, but the great thing here is, any original work you do is copyright. All you have to do is create something suitably awww-ish, and then email it to someone you don't like. Include the usual 'this email is copyright' footer that companies add, and that everyone ignores.

      The chances are that person will forward the email to friends and bingo, you can make a complaint.

    5. Re:Presumed guilty by jesterzog · · Score: 1

      With the incoming NZ law, it would be up to the ISP to decide if there's a breach of the law, and then cut the connection accordingly. The biggest issues that ISPs and the NZ Internet community have with this law isn't that it tries to stop copyright infringement on the 'net. It's that it's using a very blunt, inaccurate and disproportionate instrument to do it.

      It's disproportionate because people could have their whole connection cut if someone using it might have violated a copyright, even though the Internet is now a huge and essential part of many people's daily lives that goes far beyond obtaining download music. eg. It's like saying that you're not allowed to use a road because someone who lives in your house once parked illegally outside a nearby shopping mall.

      There's also an unrealistic assumption that ISPs have legal expertise and resources to make decisions about law that should really be made in a court. Several large ISPs in NZ have already stated that they'll probably have to set policies on the safe side which will make it more likely for people to be disconnected after accusations instead of being treated fairly under copyright law.

    6. Re:Presumed guilty by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      How are you going to detect that they forwarded it? The ISP is only going to take action if you provide something substantial such as an IP address attached to a torrent. Yes, technically you can make a complaint, but it would be treated with the contempt that it obviously deserves.

    7. Re:Presumed guilty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NZ ISPs have stated that they will require payment in order to process the notice.

    8. Re:Presumed guilty by duckInferno · · Score: 1

      Some of the major ISPs have stated that they will be very laxx about compliance to this new law. I don't anticipate any changes to the way I use the net.

      On the flip side, some ISPs here have been doing this before the law was even concieved.

      --
      Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it -- I'm huge!
    9. Re:Presumed guilty by duckInferno · · Score: 1

      Indirectly, perhaps. I believe the primary reason is to help towards getting a free trade agreement with the US, which is what the last two governments have been clamoring for (it's doesn't appear to be that lucrative, though).

      --
      Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it -- I'm huge!
    10. Re:Presumed guilty by Maelwryth · · Score: 1

      Too true. Nothing to do with making money from copyright though.

      "Lawmakers worldwide are getting to grips with how to protect creative content online. All agree with Prime Minister John Key's assertion that the internet should not be a "wild west" where creators' rights are trampled underfoot. Most are working on their own solutions to the problem."
      Bullshit. The truth is we are trying to negotiate free trade deals. The most important of which is with the U.S.. Key is merely looking at the effect of changing the law (minimal) vs possibly getting a free trade deal with the U.S. (our third largest trading partner I think) so we can make buckets of money from agricultural exports.

      "New Zealand was at the forefront of tackling the issue with a law that had received bipartisan backing."
      But, little to no imput from its citizens. As soon as people got involved it got delayed for a month so the government can see if we are serious about being upset about this, or not.

      "Music makers welcomed New Zealand's policymakers tackling this problem, realising that doing nothing was no longer an option. The trade value of recorded music worldwide has fallen by more than a fifth in the past 10 years, despite more people than ever using and enjoying it."
      That paragraph is unbelievable. Beside the obvious stupidity of it (Really? More people are using and the price has fallen? Thats just terrible!) it specifically fails to mention New Zealand Music! Have N.Z. music sales fallen? How could they measure it anyway? Most people I know buy music from the band at the concert.

      "The recording industry has transformed its business models, making music available online and on mobile through a variety of different partners. Yet the widespread availability of unlicensed music on the internet acts as a disincentive to those considering setting up legal services."
      Second sentence contradicts the first. According to the first the distribution methods have been set up. According to the second, the distribution methods are unable to be set up. And what is this licensed word? If the music is licensed then the industry would make zero money through resales (where records, tapes, and C.D.'s were scratched). In reality they make a huge amount of money through resales. I, personally, have bought most of my music four times already. Once on record, once on tape, once on C.D., and again on C.D. because I got burgled. Is he saying they owe me three sets of licences?

      "The recorded music industry has been working hard to find proportionate and reasonable solutions to tackling online copyright infringement. In some countries, labels have taken legal action against users who have uploaded infringing music to the internet without permission for millions to download without payment. We believe section 92A is a better solution for everyone."
      Cutting my internet because you believe I have infringed your copyright is not a resonable or proportionate solution in the same way that cutting my phone off because you believe it may have been used in a crime is. To paraphrase the last sentence,"We believe section 92A is better for us because it gives us a legal way to intimidate you with no liability.

      "In New Zealand, we have looked long and hard at coming up with an effective way of tackling the problem. Internet service providers are in a unique position to help us protect creative content online. It makes sense for the Government to facilitate negotiations to ensure that ISPs that take action are not undercut by those that do not. Consumers also need to be reassured that what is being done is efficient and proportionate."
      In New Zealand we have a way of facilitating negotiations between copyright holders and suspected infringers. It is called the legal system.

      "In the past few weeks there have been a lot of misleading reports and sensational propaganda about section 92A. It is not surprising that many have spoken out against the legisl

      --
      I reserve the write to mangle english.
    11. Re:Presumed guilty by reashlin · · Score: 1

      There are no precautions...

      the precautions are innocent until proven guilty.

    12. Re:Presumed guilty by Alsee · · Score: 1

      what precautions there are in the law against abuse?
      If I complain that I saw Mr. Smith sharing stuff copyrighted by me, what would be the consequences?

      Here is the text of the proposed law.

      I'm not a lawyer, but reading copyright law and reading court rulings is a geek-hobby of mine. The law contains absolutely no penalty at all.

      Section 92D(a) indicates that some additional regulations will need to be written to supplement this law, regulations detailing what information must be included in a notice of infringement. It is possible that some of the required information may implicitly carry a penalty for falsification. For example under US law certain portions of comparable notices require a statement indicating truth under penalty of perjury. I can't say for certain, but it might be possible to for the future regulations to specify that sort of thing as one of the "pieces of information" that must be included in a notice.

      Note however that even if they were to write such a detail into the those future regulations, it would almost certainly be done in a manner equivalent to the the US notice requirements. Remember how I said in US law some portions of the notice are must be affirmed true under penalty of perjury? Well, it's the statement that you *are* the copyright holder on *something*. For example if I claimed to be the copyright holder on the movie Star Wars and that you were distributing files infringing my copyright, I would be in deep perjury do-do for falsely claiming I had the copyright on Star Wars. However the perjury penalty does *NOT* apply to the portion where I accuse you of violating my copyright. In fact the files you are distributing Star Wars. Your files could be photos of your infant son. Or you might not even be distributing any files at all.

      So under US law I have to truthfully assert a copyright on something. For example I could assert my copyright on this very text. That assertion is under penalty of perjury, and it is absolutely true. I can then accuse you of infringing this copyrighted text - totally bogus. That allegation is *NOT* under any penalty of law. In fact it doesn't matter if you've never seen this text and never even come within a hundred miles of it. I could leave this text sitting on my harddrive un-posted, and I could send of a notice accusing Barack Obama's website of infringing this text.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  5. I hope this is stopped by Seriousity · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So far, it's been delayed from Feb 29 to March 29. (approx) due to the overwhelming controversy surrouding the legislation. It is blatantly clear that the politicians that pushed this bill were simply cracking under pressure from lobby groups; our parliament is a joke, albeit not a very funny one. If it isn't stopped or postponed further then I submit that I won't be posting for a while after some time around March 29 :)

    Take heed, our small Aotearoa is owned by globalists; they may well seek to implement such policies elsewhere. (see the Opal file and judge for yourselves)

    Peace, from a New Zealander

    --
    This post was made in complete sincere seriousity; as such any attempts to derive humour are doomed to instant failure.
    1. Re:I hope this is stopped by gnick · · Score: 5, Funny

      So far, it's been delayed from Feb 29 to March 29.

      Feb 29 would be preferable - That would leave almost 3 full years to fight this going through.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    2. Re:I hope this is stopped by carlmenezes · · Score: 1

      It's quite sad, the lengths people from RIAA will go to, in the name of greed. The drug is money and they're addicted.

      --
      Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
    3. Re:I hope this is stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From another NZer - the sad thing about this is that it is very rare for "pirated" NZ copyrighted material to appear on the net. So much for the " Recording Industry Association of New Zealand" - I wonder whose cheques pay Campbell Smith's salary?

    4. Re:I hope this is stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a Writer Member of APRA, but absolutely oppose this example of simply bad law. This is the kind of nonsense that 'Free' Trade agreements bring for small nations. Big-nation thieves force this crap on us for the promise of access to their markets, and our talentless legislators lap it up in the race to put their names on the big-money deals.

      Criticise it and condemn it, but as an example of globalisation, not just the incredible loss of the presumption of innocence. Big-nation elites' profits are always more important than small-nation citizens' rights.

    5. Re:I hope this is stopped by Seriousity · · Score: 1

      Hah, you got me bud. I had about five minutes to post before I went to work :P in fact, it was postponed from 28 Feb to 27 March

      --
      This post was made in complete sincere seriousity; as such any attempts to derive humour are doomed to instant failure.
  6. Heh. by castorvx · · Score: 5, Funny

    The recording industry has transformed its business models, making music available online and on mobile through a variety of different partners. Yet the widespread availability of unlicensed music on the internet acts as a disincentive to those considering setting up legal services.

    I don't think New Zealand is on the same internet I am.

    1. Re:Heh. by w0mprat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't think New Zealand is on the same internet I am.

      It isn't, or at least it hangs on by a few tenuous undersea cables.

      NZ is one of the worst places in the developed world to file-share. Our pipes out to the big interweb are pretty narrow and our local bandwidth is pretty average. Here you can have a 10mbps cable line into fibre optic infrastructure and have low quality videos stall and buffer on youtube, just because it's 8pm and everybody else is doing the same thing. Most (affordable) internet plans charge you more or slow you down if you go over 10-20gb. P2P is not only very slow here but such capped usage doesn't really encourage anyone going nuts with file-sharing.

      And they claim downloading copyrighted works is a problem in NZ?

      We already share alot by swapping portable hard drives (I call them slut drives coz they get around) in this country, now it'll get worse.

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    2. Re:Heh. by Firehed · · Score: 1

      I don't get why NZ and Australia have such crappy connections. Japan also happens to be an island, and they have some of the best home connections in the world.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    3. Re:Heh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be honest, it's not too bad. I have unlimited downloading 1am-7am, and in anticipation of this law, i acquired a paid for by cash prezzy card, and a offshore VPS running rtorrent & rtgui. I just downlaod what i want, and then d/l it back using a web scheduler.

    4. Re:Heh. by KingJackaL · · Score: 2, Informative

      They send most of their data nationally, as they all speak Japanese, and Japanese content pretty much all comes from... Japan. Australia and New Zealand are English-speaking countries, so most of the content we want to access is overseas (US, and to a lesser extent, Europe). Korea's similar - a very introverted culture as far as the rest of the world is concerned.

      Japan also has over 120 million people, New Zealand and Australia have around 4 and 22 million respectively. There's a simple economy of scale there - sure all of Japans metropolitan areas have 100mb Ethernet for cheap, but even their rural areas live on connections more similar to NZ/Aus.

      Some of the cities in NZ/Aus have some OK competition (parts of my city have 10Mb Cable available - although where I live I only have the option of DSL). But yeah, we're always going to be fighting our scale and where a lot of our content comes from.

      --
      Perfecting the art of insanity since 1982
    5. Re:Heh. by styrotech · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the way he says it makes it sound like the industry had all this cool online distribution then filesharing came along AFTERWARDS and ruined it.

    6. Re:Heh. by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      One word. Monopoly.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    7. Re:Heh. by yuda · · Score: 1

      "It isn't, or at least it hangs on by a few tenuous undersea cables. "

      Tell me about it, It takes me a good hour at the best of times to download the average metallica album

    8. Re:Heh. by javaguy · · Score: 1

      I have a 10Mbps line running off a Telstra Clear fibre infrastructure in Wellington, New Zealand, using a well seeded torrent I can often saturate my 10Mbps connection on weekday evenings. A friend of mine has Telecom ADSL in a building in central Wellington, she's lucky to get 1% of that - 20KB/sec is good for her. Maybe you just need a better ISP.

    9. Re:Heh. by duckInferno · · Score: 1

      NZ has fantastic connection to the world, and an TelstraClear is in the process of laying a brand new high capacity cable. I have a 10mbit up/down cable connection and there's no bottlenecks anywhere, let alone on one of the most popular sites on the world -- YouTube. I don't know what this w0mprat fellow is on about in this regard.

      What we DO suffer from is lack of return on investment. Those undersea cables cost quite a bit to lay and we live in a country that only recently passed the four-million population mark. Our telecommunications monopoly that is only now being addressed has resulted in a below-OCD-average uptake of broadband technology, exacerbating the return-on-investment problem. Due to the cost of international data transfer, almost all plans in NZ are capped at ridiculously low levels (20gb/month is "good" here).

      It's not all doom and gloom though... the new undersea cable has an insane capacity and Telecom's monopolistic grip is being loosened. Unfortunately, thanks to this new law, that light at the end of the tunnel? It's an oncoming train.

      --
      Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it -- I'm huge!
    10. Re:Heh. by duckInferno · · Score: 1

      Three words.
      Return on investment.

      --
      Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it -- I'm huge!
    11. Re:Heh. by ekhben · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A glance at a world map should enlighten you. Japan is 750 miles from the coast of China, and 1,200 miles from Hong Kong. Laying an undersea cable from Japan to an IX in China or Hong Kong is a big operation, but one that is feasible for a fairly small consortium of backbone providers to undertake. Once on dry land, it is comparatively cheap to lay more cable to increase capacity between Asia and Europe, and there's a lot of cable between Europe and North America. Going direct to North America, it's 3,800 miles to Honolulu, and another 2,400 miles to San Francisco. Those are longer and more expensive to lay, and would require a large consortium of providers to manage.

      From Australasia, you're going either north to China (4,700 miles) or north-east to California (9,500 miles). Either journey needs a large consortium. To make that consortium's life grand, the incumbent undersea cable operators have a tendency to slash prices on their cables before the new cables have even been laid, thus typically sinking the new venture before it gets out of the dock.

      There's a new thick pipe being laid down from Guam at present, around 6,000 miles of cable being laid by two ships (4,200 miles in one, the rest in the other). That cable has already been paid for, more or less, so in the next year or two things may get a bit better. Google Pipe Networks for more info.

    12. Re:Heh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *sigh* no, NZ is on the same Internet, just a lot slower. The Authour is just lying. It is very hard to purchase music legally over here, from the 'net, for a fair price that is. Mr. Smith is being dishonest, read the above comment from AC.

    13. Re:Heh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm from South Africa you insensitive clod

    14. Re:Heh. by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      Nope. Its 100% NZ Telecom that has a government awarded monopoly. They literately own the last mile everywhere and they hold every other provider that think that can get a good ROI for cheaper better internet to ransom. You pay the price they set which happens to be more than they charge for their own ISP (xtra for xtra charges with less service). They do things like take over a month to change address if you are not with xtra, or provide very bad levels of service. Independent ISPs can't complain because then they get worse service. This has gone to the Commerce commission more than once. I was in the industry their once and I still have friends in the industry.

      I currently pay 20EU for 2Mbit + phone with unlimited download. And yes it really is unlimited, as I have averaged 1.8Mbit over a month more than once. I can get 4Mbit both ways for 40 EU and there are cheaper places in the EU. In NZ I was paying twice that for 256Kbit with a 5Gig limit.

      Telecom may see it as no ROI because you can't switch to a better deal because they can aways make better deals go away.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    15. Re:Heh. by duckInferno · · Score: 1

      I pay the NZ equivalent for 10mbit up/down and 80gb cap, on a network owned 100% by one of Telecom's competitors.
      But nice try.

      --
      Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it -- I'm huge!
    16. Re:Heh. by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      So you either live in Wellington or Auckland (perhaps Christchurch- I have not lived in NZ for 3 years). And even then there are only a few select areas. And what the hell is good about a 80gig cap at 10Mbit? Thats like a average of only 250Kbits or something. I downloaded well over 150Gig last month on 2Mbit. And lest not start with the level of service.. That why we moved our net based company off shore.

      How much do you pay?

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    17. Re:Heh. by duckInferno · · Score: 1

      I thought we were on the same page as to the quality of NZ net and only in disagreement as to its cause?

      I'm not with Telecom and enjoy a (relatively) good service as a direct result. In the past, this would have been rather difficult. Telecom's a shadow of its former self, however... and is steadily decreasing in power. Its shares have been taking a hit almost daily -- expand the history of that link back to 2008 to see the extent.

      Here's a good source of ISP plans in NZ. Telecom are somewhere in the middle. As for market penetration, I'm unable to find any hard data on it. It used to be 90%~ Xtra at the beginning of the naughties. In 2005-2006, it had gone down to 75% shared with TelstraClear. I have no idea what it is now.

      Back to my original argument: Monopoly? Not so much anymore. Return on investment? Definitely. We have four million people. TelstraClear have been finding it difficult to justify expanding their cable network in NZ (they actually tried to let their existing cable network fall out of favour for a few years and have only recently begun to roll out new fiber). Telecom, monopoly or no, have very real financial concerns preventing them from ripping up our shitty national copper network for something better. Undersea cabling linking us to the rest of the 'net suffers from the same difficulty of recouping the investment; that's why international traffic is expensive and ISPs often lift their data caps for national traffic.

      The one thing NZ internet has going for it is that we're a perfect test bed for new technology.

      --
      Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it -- I'm huge!
  7. Why not lower prices? by mangu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The recorded music industry has been working hard to find proportionate and reasonable solutions to tackling online copyright infringement. In some countries, labels have taken legal action against users who have uploaded infringing music to the internet without permission for millions to download without payment. We believe section 92A is a better solution for everyone.

    I, OTOH, am able to do simple math. Multiply the $0.99 price that's typically charged per on-line song by the 15 tracks one finds in a typical CD and you get the same $15 one pays for the CD. Add the hassle of burning and dealing with DRM.

    If people don't want to buy CDs at $15, then why do they think people would be willing to pay the equivalent of $15 for a CD online?

    Charge reasonable prices and the world will beat a path to your door.

    1. Re:Why not lower prices? by DomainDominator · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They're a monopoly, and are gouging the consumer. If anywhere we need the DOJ antitrust working overtime it's against the RIAA.

    2. Re:Why not lower prices? by oodaloop · · Score: 5, Informative

      Mod parent up. I had an economist friend years ago who calculated what songs would cost on the radio per airing, and it came out to $.05USD. At that price, I would buy large quantities of music. As it is now, CDs are too expensive and so are mp3s on iTunes. Not that I would ever pirate music. On a completely separate subject, I like limes.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    3. Re:Why not lower prices? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Your argument doesn't work on all levels - for one, buying per song allows you to purchase only a portion of a CD. If you want to buy the whole CD as you do in a retail setting, the price is never $.99 per song - it's normally $10 or so per CD.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    4. Re:Why not lower prices? by PhysicsPhil · · Score: 1

      I had an economist friend years ago who calculated what songs would cost on the radio per airing, and it came out to $.05USD. At that price, I would buy large quantities of music.

      If you were dealing with 15-20 songs an hour, 24 hours a day I would expect the record companies would happily do business with you.

      But truthfully if you're paying a nickel per play like the radio stations then you'd be renting, not buying, large quantities of music. For any music that you expect to play more than nineteen times you'd be better off going to iTunes.

    5. Re:Why not lower prices? by Zerth · · Score: 1

      Is that the per station cost or the per person listening cost?

    6. Re:Why not lower prices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll take you up on this. I'll charge you 5 cents per listen and let you hear all the commercials and crap and you'll listen to what songs I tell you when I tell you. I bet you I make more than the $0.95 you're saving on listening to your own bought music.

    7. Re:Why not lower prices? by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

      More and more independent artists ARE setting up their own sites and own their own copyrights.

      Way to go!

    8. Re:Why not lower prices? by compro01 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Offtopic, but your signature is awesome.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    9. Re:Why not lower prices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In New Zealand our new CD's are typically $35 NZD

    10. Re:Why not lower prices? by spir0 · · Score: 1

      true enough. I buy CDs because they work out cheaper than buying digital copies. On top of that, I've always got the physical media, so if my computer blows up, or if the service shuts down, I can still play my media.

      Digital music would have to be *much* *much* cheaper than a physical CD for me to even consider it.

      Charge me the same or more and let me do less with it? I don't think so.

      --
      The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
    11. Re:Why not lower prices? by TropicalCoder · · Score: 1

      Multiply the $0.99 price that's typically charged per on-line song by the 15 tracks one finds in a typical CD and you get the same $15 one pays for the CD. If people don't want to buy CDs at $15, then why do they think people would be willing to pay the equivalent of $15 for a CD online?

      Ah but there's a huge flaw in your argument. When one buys a CD for $15, there is likely only one or two tracks on the entire disk worth ripping to your collection. On the other hand, when buying individual tracks at $1 each, likely every one is a winner to the purchaser. What you have in this case is a 15 to 1 increase in value when you are able to buy single tracks.

    12. Re:Why not lower prices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $15? more like $25 to $30 - sometimes $40 for a CD in New Zealand.

    13. Re:Why not lower prices? by shark72 · · Score: 1

      Many engineers don't realize that convenience plays a HUGE part in purchase decisions. While I've no doubt that you have no problem driving to the store or waiting a few days for the mail each time you want to buy a CD, it's essential to understand that the instant gratification of clicking a link and having something immediately is a big motivator for lots of people.

      It's somewhat pointless to argue whether $0.99 is the right price for a track -- Apple has sold four billion tracks at that price. Last year they surpassed Wal-Mart and became the top music retailer in the US. Your rhetorical question of "why do they think people would be willing to pay..." has an answer: because people are indeed willing to pay $0.99 a track. This goes beyond theory. Apple has figured it out.

      At any rate, prices are actually lower than you indicate. Most new releases are $10 to $13 on Amazon, and while there's no questioning Apple's success at $0.99 a track, there are better deals to be had. I bought The Bird And The Bee's latest album for $4.00. This worked out to about $0.30 per track.

      Yes, yes, I know -- you probably got it for free. I doff my hat to your financial saviness, but I happen to be in a financial position where spending four clams for a DRM-free album isn't a hardship.

           

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    14. Re:Why not lower prices? by shark72 · · Score: 1

      "I had an economist friend years ago who calculated what songs would cost on the radio per airing, and it came out to $.05USD. At that price, I would buy large quantities of music. As it is now, CDs are too expensive and so are mp3s on iTunes."

      You're correct that performance royalties are less than $0.05 per track, but you can't confuse these with royalties paid per sale. By law, mechanical royalties are at least $0.08, and beyond that, there are royalties negotiated with the performer. Even if you assume that everybody involved with producing the music worked for free, you're looking at a cost of sale of perhaps $0.15 alone.

      If your price to start paying for music is $0.05, God bless you and happy pirating. But it's important to understand that until the laws are changed to abolish mechanical royalties, there's a floor you won't get below.

      As I've mentioned elsewhere, many new CDs are $10 - $12 and a lot of albums can be downloaded for $6 or less if you catch them on sale at Amazon. This often puts the price per track at less than $0.50. I'll take it at face value that you consider this to be "too expensive," but the math doesn't work. Even if you're toiling at a minimum wage job, working just one more hour a week would likely allow you to buy all the music you want.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    15. Re:Why not lower prices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If people don't want to buy CDs at $15, then why do they think people would be willing to pay the equivalent of $15 for a CD online?

      Buying small quantities is allways more expensive than buying bulk. For several reasons.

      If they really wanted all 15 songs they would buy the CD. The fact that they buy a single song at a time most allways means they are selecting only the ones they really want. That means that from a CD of 15 songs they will probably buy ... 4 thru 8 songs ? That in turn means that even when there are 15 songs produced the seller gets money for (at average) only half of them. As a result the single-song price must go up to compensate for the non-sold songs.

      Thats something called "common sense", and something you would find fully normal (even acceptable) when talking about fruit, books and/or other stuff (especially when the goods are perishable).

      You may not agree with the music-industry at a whole, but thoughtless ranting will only damage your stance.

  8. Not wild west, but somewhat feudalist by MikeRT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The copyright lords don't need to get a court involved to impose sanction. Their firm allegation is all that is needed under this system. The commoner is punished, and then must go to a court to prove that the nobility were mistaken.

    People who like quick solutions and big government involvement don't like the rule of law and due process because they get in the way of accomplishing the "greater good." Ironically, the greater good is generally a myth, and if you look behind one group asking another to sacrifice its rights for the "greater good," you'll usually just find some selfish, self-centered individual who profits.

    1. Re:Not wild west, but somewhat feudalist by DomainDominator · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The "greater good" is whatever the men with guns decide it is. :-)

    2. Re:Not wild west, but somewhat feudalist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who like quick solutions and big government involvement don't like the rule of law and due process...

      Congratulations, you have mastered the strawman argument!

      People who like quick solutions are a distinct group from people who like big government are a distinct group from people who don't like the rule of law.

    3. Re:Not wild west, but somewhat feudalist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Tau disagree. (And boy, do they have guns.)

    4. Re:Not wild west, but somewhat feudalist by Wes+Janson · · Score: 1

      Baltar: "All we need is strength! Strength that comes from within!"
      Head 6: "And guns..."
      Baltar: "And guns! More guns! Bigger guns! Better guns! And when we have those, we will win!"

  9. encryption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    file sharing will become encrypted? gg copyright laws?

    1. Re:encryption? by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      Darknets are less efficent and harder to use than open file sharing systems, so most people won't use them and therefore it will be hard to find content if you do limit yourself to darknets.

    2. Re:encryption? by tacarat · · Score: 1

      Encrypted file sharing only means you have something to hide, making it that much harder for you to prove you're "innocent". On a lighter note, I'd love to see what happens if they try pulling the plug on a NSA/CIA/FBI operative... or whatever the New Zealand equivalent is.

      --
      "Common sense will be the death of us all"
    3. Re:encryption? by csartanis · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Encrypted file sharing only means you have something to hide...

      Yes, like my personal information, personal photographs, home videos, linux isos...

      All of which are none of your Goddamn business!

    4. Re:encryption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does your comment have to do with the parent? Ever heard of SSL?

    5. Re:encryption? by Gogo0 · · Score: 1

      file sharing will become encrypted? gg copyright laws?

      how can this solve the problem, though?
      you could just have an RIAA node out there on a tracker. whoever uploads encrypted data of a song to them gets their IP logged and nothing is changed.

      that said, torrents are scary, i use encrypted usenet. its not infallible, but its a lot better.

    6. Re:encryption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't share the first 3 on any public file sharing sites. I would probably not share the first at all, and the latter two, I'd prefer not to, there are plenty of websites to store galleries that would be far more convenient for me.

      The latter...wait, why would you encrypt a Linux ISO? Wouldn't that make it hard to burn?

    7. Re:encryption? by tacarat · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah. Anything they think law enforcement types "need" access to for good reasons are things criminals would love access to for their own. Make everything secure and suddenly we can't find terrorists. Loophole everything and suddenly you live in 29 other states and owe lots of money on custom made bowling balls for some reason.

      --
      "Common sense will be the death of us all"
  10. The obvious justification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The data-transfer capabilities of the Internet weaken the foundation of the artificial scarcity upon which we have built our cartel. Without the ability to forcefully stop people from sharing their resources directly with one another, we will not be able to stand as a distributive barrier between those who have talent and those who want to enjoy that talent, which in turn means we will no longer be able to create and artificially inflate revenue streams from other people's creative efforts.

    In order to ensure our continued relevance in the face of technological advances which displace us, and to ensure our continued ability to extract large sums of money without contributing anything of value (or even doing anything hard), we need laws that prevent people from capitalizing on their own resources.

    Any technology which threatens our gravy train must be made illegal, and those who use it must be punished.

    1. Re:The obvious justification by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are you secretly laughing at slashdot?

    2. Re:The obvious justification by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A very succinct statement of the entire industry.

      But those with the faulty business model are not the record labels. They are simply
      doing what anyone handed an insanely lucrative monopoly would do. Milk it and Preserve it by all means possible.

      No, it is "Those who have talent" (allegedly) who have the flawed model. It hasn't been working for them for 20 years, most bands see mere pennies from each CD sale. Young, penniless, and desperate, they sign ridiculous contracts only to be raped for the rest of their lives.

      In the digital age, this failed model should break first, then the labels will disappear on their own.

      I fervently hope the labels DON'T wake up to the true potential of digital distribution. That would merely condemns another few generations of musicians to enslavement.

      New talent has to do what Doctors, Lawyers, Office Workers, Factory Workers, cops, and bus drivers have done. Embrace the technology.
       

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    3. Re:The obvious justification by greenbird · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, it is "Those who have talent" (allegedly) who have the flawed model. It hasn't been working for them for 20 years, most bands see mere pennies from each CD sale. Young, penniless, and desperate, they sign ridiculous contracts only to be raped for the rest of their lives.

      You don't seem to understand. The "industry" is having their paid pets in government pass laws making any business model they don't control illegal. Did you know that if you stream your own music on the internet you have to pay a fee to one of the incumbents puppet companies created by the government? The money is supposed to be distributed to the artists but they get to keep any of the money for artists they can't seem to find. So you know they look REAL hard.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    4. Re:The obvious justification by icebike · · Score: 1

      > Did you know that if you stream your own music on the internet you have to pay a fee to one of the incumbents puppet companies created by the government?

      I don't believe this.

      Anyone can set up a Linux box and stream their own music (recorded by themselves, not under contract).
      The technology to do this is trivial. But somehow the guitarist who can re-wire his own amp, set up his own mics record, mix, and burn his own demo cd can't seem to take the next step, or find any company who will host his music for him for a reasonable fee.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:The obvious justification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Go look up SoundExchange then. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't real.

    6. Re:The obvious justification by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      In order to ensure our continued relevance in the face of technological advances which displace us, and to ensure our continued ability to extract large sums of money without contributing anything of value (or even doing anything hard), we need laws that prevent people from capitalizing on their own resources.

      Any technology which threatens our gravy train must be made illegal, and those who use it must be punished.

      Wait, wait -- are you a music label or a medical insurance company?

  11. Submitter is still presuming guilt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "without the user ever having a chance to demonstrate their evidence" - Shouldn't the first step be the music industry showing THEIR evidence? Only once they've shown significant evidence should the user have to step up and provide their own counter evidence or attack the industry's evidence.

    1. Re:Submitter is still presuming guilt by Dolohov · · Score: 1

      According to the linked article, that *is* the first step. The summary here conflicts in several places with the Campbell piece, and without the text of the legislation, it's hard to tell what the truth is.

  12. not quite defenseless by tonyreadsnews · · Score: 4, Informative
    Not that I'm for this or anything, but the guy does mention the 2 checks in the system:

    The ISP would then contact its user and warn them that they were breaking the law, advise them not to do it again

    I agree with the proposition that users should be able to flag to an independent adjudicator anything they regard as mistaken evidence

    also, he mentions that it is the 'right holder' that identifies IP addresses through the filesharing system, not the governement or anything so I'm not sure how its "Big Brother".

    Having said that, I don't think its the appropriate way to handle copyright infringement.

    1. Re:not quite defenseless by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The guy makes it sound all common sense. [Artist] checks out (say) The Pirate Bay and sees their latest hit available. They run a client, jot down IP addresses, and report to the appropriate ISPs. Bad pirates get disconnected for stealing the work of [Artist]. Who could complain?

      The trouble is - we know that's not how it'll work. It won't be [Artist] feverishly protecting their livelihood. It'll be [script], executed by an "IP protection" service acting as an agent for an Industry representative, running a drag-net search and spamming cease-and-desist letters. The ISP will be running [script2] to parse those emails and notify / disconnect users. The dragnet script will make mistakes. Often. Only the end users will be paying for those mistakes by trying to re-establish their (increasingly important) connection after being victim of said script.

      How do we know this? We can study from history.

    2. Re:not quite defenseless by Kindaian · · Score: 1

      So basically they (RIAA equivalent), just posts ALL their music online in the p2p nets, and then starts to grab the IPs of everyone that touchs those files...

      Nice move...

      BUT, i've a simple question... how do you know that the file "madonna.mp3" is copyrighted or not, before you listen to at least a segment of it? ;)

    3. Re:not quite defenseless by rhizome · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The dragnet script will make mistakes. Often. Only the end users will be paying for those mistakes by trying to re-establish their (increasingly important) connection after being victim of said script.

      Not to mention that there is no provision in the proposed law that would define, much less punish, abuse of this regime. The word "impunity" comes to mind.

      --
      When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
    4. Re:not quite defenseless by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 1

      "I agree with the proposition that users should be able to flag to an independent adjudicator anything they regard as mistaken evidence

      There's something of a difference between "agreeing with a proposition" and stating that it is part of the legislation that has already been passed into law.

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    5. Re:not quite defenseless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We know "IP Protection" Companies are using web crawlers to scour the internet to find copyrighted media. We also know these bots are not perfect and can lead to false-positives

      Could you setup a honeypot containing similarly named files to copywriter material and disallow bot activity on that directory of the server. Trap the bot accessing material it is explicitly not authorized to access and sue for tort tresspass?

    6. Re:not quite defenseless by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      Because Big Brother is the NZ == of the RIAA as far as your internet connect goes.

      Note also you get disconnected *first*, then you get to ask for "adjudicator".

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    7. Re:not quite defenseless by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We also know these bots are not perfect and can lead to false-positives.

      Further the cost of false positives is not their problem. So whats the incentive to reduce false positives?

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    8. Re:not quite defenseless by countach · · Score: 1

      To be fair, he did seem to be saying it targets uploaders, not downloaders.

  13. Opportunity knocks... by Tsar · · Score: 4, Interesting
    So how long will it take for some Kiwi IP-freedom-fighter to:
    1. Make a few original MP3 recordings,
    2. Copyright them (is that necessary in NZ?),
    3. Post them with names similar to upcoming releases from RIANZ members,
    4. Publicize their location,
    5. Watch for RIANZ-member IPs in the server logs, and
    6. Issue take-down demands to their ISPs?

    Lather, rinse, repeat.

    1. Re:Opportunity knocks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Won't work, the law requires more than somebody downloading a file. You have to be distributing it.

      Besides, the obvious intent of your plan is going to screw you up, as anybody with a lick of sense is going to see what you're trying to do, and tell you to stop being an asshat.

    2. Re:Opportunity knocks... by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      If you are sharing your own content, how could you complain that someone downloaded it? I don't think you'd have any case at all.

    3. Re:Opportunity knocks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The law as written requires nothing.

      the actual plan is
      1. find out the ip of anyone you dont like,
      2. send a stream of unfounded accusations.
      3. watch them get kicked off the 'net.

    4. Re:Opportunity knocks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please point to the language in this law that requires that the copyright holder actually have a "case".

    5. Re:Opportunity knocks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just add a fine print saying "don't download this, please, it's copyrighted and you'd break the law"

    6. Re:Opportunity knocks... by DMalic · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah. After all, the MPAA violated copyright on by copying the movie "Steal this movie", and got off scott-free. Their defense? The action was morally correct due to their production of only one copy which was safely stored in MPAA vaults. From this, we can determine that there is one law for media industries which violate individual copyrights (which clean-stamp their own actions) and another for individuals who violate media industry copyrights. I'm sure that this realization does plenty to encourage individual respect for the law, yes?

    7. Re:Opportunity knocks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It occurs to me that this idea contains a fundamental flaw: it assumes that the RIANZ members will have the same time dealing with the law as others. In fact, they will be not guilty, the Ip-Freedom-Fighter denounced, and the law will have evidence that it's reasonable, after all these individuals were found not guilty of copyright infringement...

    8. Re:Opportunity knocks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After all, the MPAA violated copyright on by copying the movie "Steal this movie" [...]

      [[citation needed]]

    9. Re:Opportunity knocks... by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      So how long will it take for some Kiwi IP-freedom-fighter to:
      [ ... ]
      5. Watch for RIANZ-member IPs in the server logs, and
      6. Issue take-down demands to their ISPs?

      That only works if unbiased parties are processing the take-down demands. The AC just above me has it exactly right.

    10. Re:Opportunity knocks... by ikekrull · · Score: 1

      You can't copy, use or distribute copyrighted material without a license. Doesn't matter if I leave it lying around in an accessible place, you have no right to copy it or use it without a valid license.

      If I license the use of an image from a stock photography company and put it on my website, free for anyone to view, that doesn't give anyone else the right to copy, use or redistribute it.

      How do you know if you have rights to view/copy/use content such as this? You don't. You may be technically be committing a crime by looking at web pages that contain unlicensed content.

      Making ephemeral copies in the computers memory and/or browser cache is actually something copyright-holder groups would like to regulate, and may technically already constitute criminal copying, though this is largely seen as unenforceable.

      If I have not licensed my works under a GPL, Copyleft or similar license that allows you to copy and/or use them, then copying or using them is a crime. Doesn't make a difference to their status under copyright law if i 'make them available' or not.

      Just because a record company makes a song available on the radio for free doesn't confer on me the right to copy, use or distribute it - i get to listen to it when the radio station plays it, and thats it.

      How much in terms of damages I could expect to win in court if i just left my stuff in an open file share is a different question, but you, as someone downloading and using any material from the internet without an explicit license to do so, are potentially committing a criminal act.

      As far as I know, this is the way our stupid laws are written and interpreted, however generally they can only be effectively used by large corporations with deep pockets.

      To sum up: consumers/users have no rights in the absence of a license, and if the letter of the law is followed and enforced, we are all criminals.

      --
      I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
    11. Re:Opportunity knocks... by Dekker3D · · Score: 1

      you'd just need to act like two people: one uploading, the other making the original recording. you could safely upload from just about any place with public internet access, like an internet café or library or school. write a batch file which deletes itself after uploading the file, a few hours after you left.. and it probably won't even show up in the logs. then, you just have to get some sucker to download it and distribute.. the rest of the plan would work, then.

      why yes, i hÃve thought it out. i'm getting quite sick of the constant troublecausing on the internet by all sorts of litigious bastards. except my plan didn't involve this law.. way to go nz :D

    12. Re:Opportunity knocks... by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      Doesn't make a difference to their status under copyright law if i 'make them available' or not.

      There's a huge contextual difference between including an image on your web page and hosting a torrent to it, an implied permission in the latter that is not there in the former.

    13. Re:Opportunity knocks... by Mix+Master+Nixon · · Score: 1

      I thought it was THIS FILM IS NOT YET RATED, a documentary about the laughable hypocrisy of the MPAA ratings board, that the MPAA got busted making illegal copies of.

      --
      Oppressing an entire population is never cheap.
      --Jeckler (/. Beta IS GARBAGE!)
    14. Re:Opportunity knocks... by DMalic · · Score: 1

      Bwah. You're correct; thanks.

    15. Re:Opportunity knocks... by ikekrull · · Score: 1

      How so? where is this 'implied permission' codified in copyright law? If theres case law or written statute to back this up i'd be interested to read it.

      I don't think that 'it was on a torrent your honour, so i assumed it was legal' is any kind of defense whatsoever.

      If you copy something, using a torrent or otherwise, and either knowingly download it without an explicit license, or subsequently find no license to copy or use it included with the content, then you're technically in breach of the law, regardless of the mitigating circumstances - e.g. while its legal for me to 'trick' you into downloading copyrighted content for which no license is given - and this would be a big mitigating factor in any damages calculations, should it come to a court case, you still possess an illegal copy of that work, and as such are committing a crime.

      --
      I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
    16. Re:Opportunity knocks... by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      It isn't codified in law, of course. And you don't need a licence to make reasonable use of a copyrighted work. Viewing a web page with an image on it is reasonable use. Downloading a torrent file to your computer and seeding it for others is reasonable use. These are not hard-coded in law, it's just fucking obvious.

    17. Re:Opportunity knocks... by Alsee · · Score: 1

      When you are discussing law, please don't go around making random shit up just because that is how you'd like to presume it should work.

      I mainly know US copyright law so lets start there - in certain cases recognize an implied license. I'm I'm the copyright holder and I offer some content on the internet, there's generally an implied license for you to create a copy of it on your harddrive when I let you download it. However it would still be copyright infringement for you to create a derivative work from my content, it would still be copyright infringement for you to create and distribute new copies, and it would still be copyright infringement for you to engage in a public display / public performance of my work. So even if I post my content for download, even if I offer a torrent of it, I can still accuse you of infringing my work in a variety of ways. If I offered a torrent then there would likely be an implied license to redistribute, but derivative works and public performance would still be infringement.

      And here's a fun note - lets say I have an icon on my website. Someone from the Slashdot staff comes across it, likes it, and uses it as one of the section icons on the main Slashdot webpage. You then browse Slashdot, and wind up making a copy of it on your harddrive. Under US law I can sue you for infringement. You could put up a defense that you are an "innocent infringer", and the burden is upon you to prove your "innocent infringer" status in court, and if you do prove that status then the court is permitted to lower the damages to $200 per infringement. If Slashdot had copied a dozen icons from me, you as an "innocent infringer" would by law be subject to $2400 minimum in damages to me. Yes, that is as broken as it sounds. Copyright law is seriously fuxored, millions of people every day are technically subject to billions in "innocent infringer" damages for the routine webbrowsing and trivial incidental infringements that may exist in websites. In fact most other countries' copyright laws are technically even more fuxored that US copyright law. The only reason existing copyright law is tolerated is because it is virtually never actually enforced. If existing US copyright law were strictly enforced, not only would we all be subject to staggering damages for "innocent infringer" infringements, but in fact tens of millions of ordinary Americans would be in prison on felony criminal copyright infringement. Under the NET Act essentially everyone who has ever touched P2P, and more, are technically subject to felony criminal copyright infringement. The NET act carries a sneaky clause that takes tens of millions of ordinary non-commercial individuals, and slams them into the commercial copyright infringement criminal category.

      So, back to the original point about this New Zealand law. As I indicated above someone can send you a file and still accuse you of derivative-work-infringement or accuse you of public-performance-infringement, or accuse you of redistribution-infringement. However both US takedown-notice law and New Zealand ISP-cutoff-notice law are even worse than that. It doesn't matter if you you even have my file or not. I can write a poem and I can accuse you of infringing my copyright in that poem, and it doesn't matter that you aren't infringing my copyright. It doesn't matter that the files you are distributing are actually photos of your children. It doesn't matter that you have never even seen my poem. Under US law I can truthfully assert under penalty of perjury that I am indeed the copyright holder, and my accusation that you are infringing my copyright is *NOT* under penalty of perjury or anything else. Under US law I can truthfully claim a copyright on my poem, and have your website taken down with a completely bogus claim of infringement. The New Zealand law still needs to have some regulatory details filled in, but yeah, I can make a totally bogus claim that you are infringing the copyright in my poem, and get your internet cut off.

      It's not merely bad law, it's abso

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    18. Re:Opportunity knocks... by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      When you are discussing law, please don't go around making random shit up just because that is how you'd like to presume it should work.

      I'm not making anything up. Intent has always been important in law, and fair use is a long-established principle that big content owners have long tried to attack, mostly unsuccessfully. This law doesn't change that.

      It's not even guilty until proven innocent.
      It's guilt upon accusation.
      You get accused, you are guilty. Period.

      Now you're making things up, or quoting made-up things. The accuser has to provide a case to the ISP, who is only supposed to act if the information checks out, and they have to inform you first. I'm not saying it's a good law, but you're attacking straw men and that's no way to win.

    19. Re:Opportunity knocks... by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Now you're making things up

      I red the law. Plenty of people have linked it on here.

      The law says that people can send infringement accusation letters, and that these letters have official legal status.
      The law says that ISPs must institute a policy of terminating the repeatedly accused.

      There is an unknown in that the law expects future regulations - currently undefined - for what information must be included in these letters. But that unknown doesn't much matter here. It's merely a list of what must be listed in the accusation letter.

      It seems you are going according to the article, and the industry spin in that article, and I'm going according to what the law actually says. For example the industry spokesman says:

      I agree with the proposition that users should be able to flag to an independent adjudicator anything they regard as mistaken evidence.

      Well gee, that's nice. I might CARE, except nothing of the sort appears in the law.

      Everything the industry spokesman said was a vacuous load of crap. For fun I'll run down the list of everything he said in the article.

      Some people have suggested the new law would mean people keeping tabs on what internet sites people visit or monitoring people's email. That is not true.

      Some people said that this would lead to the Anti-Christ and the apocalypse. Has anyone ever claimed any of those things? It's stupid and false. I've never heard anyone make such stupid complaints, and even if there does exist some idiot out there saying such a thing, they don't matter. It's a dirty lying tactic trying try to smear legitimate critics with legitimate complaints as loons with ridiculous complaints. I have never heard anyone object to this law with those crazy objections, and it doesn't matter if some idiot did. It's spin, it's a dirty smear tactic.

      Others suggest that under the draft code of conduct designed to implement the law people will be summarily thrown off the internet for downloading a couple of unlicensed files. That is also not true.

      The only way he can say it's "not true" is that he means they aren't planning on going after people just for "a couple of unlicensed files". That is what the law does, it just doesn't do it on the first accusation, and the music industry "merely" intend to go after people with the largest number of files and work their way down. The law absolutely does allow them to file notices against someone for single file infringement, he's just saying they aren't planning to actually use the law if it's just one or just a few.

      What would happen is simple. Right holders could log on to public file-sharing sites, just as anyone can, and note which IP addresses are being used to upload pre-release music or films or large amounts of copyright-infringing material.

      They intend to compile lists of addresses they think are guilty of infringement. We know for a fact and from experience that such lists contain errors. Read what he wrote - he is assuming guilt upon accusation.

      They would then prepare evidence, complete with details of the names of the copyrighted files being uploaded, exact timestamps and the protocol used, and send it to the relevant ISP.

      "Preparing evidence" sounds swell, but the entirety of the evidence they are talking about are their local data, we think we saw this address infringing this file at this time. And we know for a fact from experience that there are a huge number of problems and mistakes in that. Problems in their data collection, wrong addresses, completely innocent files with FILENAMES that trip their guilt-triggers, files that appear to be shared that are in fact not available, or even completely accurate "evidence" accusing someone in situations where in fact no infringement has been committed.

      "Preparing evidence" amounts to little more than the accusation itself. We think we saw something that looked to us like infringement, and at our end it looked like filename X at time Y from I

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    20. Re:Opportunity knocks... by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      It seems you are going according to the article, and the industry spin in that article, and I'm going according to what the law actually says.

      True, I'm just going by what I read in the few minutes that I've spent on this. I still thing that "guilt upon accusation" is a little strong, you aren't found guilty of a crime on accusation, but your internet can be disconnected. There's a big difference there, although losing your internet is becoming more inconvenient.

  14. Huh? by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The ISP would then contact its user and warn them that they were breaking the law, advise them not to do it again and provide details of where to enjoy music legally online.

    If the user kept breaking the law the ISP could close the internet account.

    Extra emphasis on "could"
    So is Campbell Smith saying that there is nothing requiring ISPs to cut off internet users?
    If not, why would ISPs ever do so?

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:Huh? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Extra emphasis on "could"
      So is Campbell Smith saying that there is nothing requiring ISPs to cut off internet users?
      If not, why would ISPs ever do so?

      I wouldn't read too much into it. The "could" was his words and not necessarily the wording of the law itself, which is what counts.

      I think they will have to use government/legislative force for stuff like this though. If it's voluntary a few ISP's will undoubtedly jump on board because some of them are always stupid and naive, but eventually they'll realize that their subscribers are paying the bills, not the *AA's of the world.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    2. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Could" is just spin. The actual leglislation states that ISPs must cut off any account where they are notified of repeated infringes of copyright.

      So there is no ability of the user to say no it wasn't me before they get cut off.

        but that's ok because the RIAA never gets it wrong and accuses innocent people.

    3. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because if they don't disconnect the user they become legally liable for any copyright infringement that user has committed.

      An ISP is not going to be interested in putting their own head on the block: so they'll be forced to assume everyone is guilty.

  15. DoS by rkoot · · Score: 1

    So, third parties can initiate my uplink's termination? smells like a denial of service attack :)
    I wonder if that's legal...
    r.

    1. Re:DoS by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      Which would be why they're trying to pass a law to make it legal, perhaps?!?

  16. And this is why.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And this is why you need to choose your words carefully.

    The ISP would then contact its user and warn them that they were breaking the law, advise them not to do it again and provide details of where to enjoy music legally online.

    So if the ISP says 'go to this site where you can purchase a song for $2 and an album for $15' the offending user can simply say "I only enjoy music at lower prices than that" or "I only enjoy music that is free". Find me that site and I'll comply.

    What he wants to say it 'buy music online' and not 'enjoy'. He wants people to purchase absurdly overpriced music and then of course he gets a massive cut from those sales.

    Record companies and recording artists don't want anyone to lose their internet accounts. They want users to migrate from using unlicensed services to enjoying music legally online. If this happens, there is then a greater incentive for new players to come in to compete in the legal market.

    What empirical data is there that says that the more draconian laws created to punish users who download music there are, the easier the market is to enter for digital download sites.

    Section 92A will be great news for consumers who will be able to enjoy a wide choice of artists to listen to.

    Actually it should not be news at all for anyone who only buys music seeing as illegal download sites or whatever this guy calls them would not be on that persons radar. They already enjoy the artists.

  17. What if downloader owns the CD by sparetiredesire · · Score: 1

    What if someone is downloading an electronic copy of songs on a CD they own.

    What if someone is sharing a song with a friend; "Try out this song, if you like it go buy the album".

    The proposed law seems to assume someone is guilty in both these cases, which is BS IMHO.

    1. Re:What if downloader owns the CD by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      This laws does not target downloaders. And both those cases are against the law anyway.

    2. Re:What if downloader owns the CD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't know about NZ, but in the US someone would indeed be guilty in both of those cases. Good luck with that.

    3. Re:What if downloader owns the CD by Dekker3D · · Score: 1

      they'd be guilty, but they wouldn't be wrong. if only people could invent a set of laws that could match those two on every occasion...

    4. Re:What if downloader owns the CD by holloway · · Score: 1

      The law targets copyright infringement, not downloaders.

    5. Re:What if downloader owns the CD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if someone is downloading an electronic copy of songs on a CD they own.

      You did not keep up with the recording-industry, did you ? Even the transferring of the data from the CD to your computers internal memory (so that the sound-card can get at it and convert it to a signal for your sound-boxes) is regarded as another copy, meaning you should obtain another licence (or be regarded as 'stealing' the music).

      (Converting the data to an electrical signal and later to air-pressure-changes could be regarded as two other representations of that same work, which could, as far as the music-industry/RIAA is concerned, need another two licences)

      What if someone is sharing a song with a friend; "Try out this song, if you like it go buy the album".

      In that case you are activily and with full intent spreading something you do not own, which should land you into the slammer for a lifetime or two.

      The proposed law seems to assume someone is guilty in both these cases,

      What do you mean with 'assume' ? You seem to know quite well what is lawfull and what is not, meaning that when you are caught doing something un-lawfull with their belonings your post will be used to demand 'double jeopardy' fines (maybe even treble).

      which is BS IMHO

      The Law is above anything mere humans think about it. Surrender to it or be extinguished.

    6. Re:What if downloader owns the CD by holloway · · Score: 1

      Ugh, sorry -- that was poorly phrased. I meant that it doesn't target just downloaders or uploaders, it's generic copyright infringement.

  18. smaller countries will freak out more over ip by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Interesting

    a large country like the usa, or a confident one like the uk, the business infrastructure of distribution can wither and die in the face of the internet, and there's no perception of a threat to the very existence of british or american culture being wiped out in the adjustment period

    but places like canada, or new zealand, there is a strong legal entrenchment of cultural protectionism, because there is already a perception that everyone watches american television and movies, or listens to british music, such that if "native" culture were to lose its protection, it would wither and die

    i actually don't believe this, i hardly believe anything stops an artist from creating art. its not like a kiwi won't write songs again just because kelly clarkson is on the radio. it seems to me to be some sort of lack of confidence on the part of canucks and kiwis. or rather, enough canuck and kiwi politicians can be persuaded of this scare tactic by captains of dying media industries in the face of the internet

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:smaller countries will freak out more over ip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i actually don't believe this, i hardly believe anything stops an artist from creating art. its not like a kiwi won't write songs again just because kelly clarkson is on the radio.

      That's not really the issue. The protectionist laws are in place to ensure homegrown music/art/etc can get visibility on TV, radio, etc. Without those laws, the big money from the cartels will be able to legally saturate the tubes entirely by paying off the stations to play their (american) stuff. So having laws that require 30% of stuff played must be canadian in origin (or something similar to that) ensures there's a percentage of the network that can't get saturated by american corporate types.... instead it gets saturated by the homegrown corporate types.

    2. Re:smaller countries will freak out more over ip by james.m.henderson · · Score: 1

      Actually, Canada's IP laws are currently more relaxed than in the US. There is a Canadian DMCA (Bill C-61) that has been in the tubes (in a few different forms) for a while, however it hasn't really gotten anywhere just yet. It is certainly true that there is an air of cultural protectionism in Canada, but I have never really seen loss of culture being used as a rationalization for -jmh

    3. Re:smaller countries will freak out more over ip by Satanicolas · · Score: 1

      praise our unstable minority government for this

    4. Re:smaller countries will freak out more over ip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you been to NZ? We're now simply Americans who play rugby. We are so drowned in US media that we speak in US slang we don't even understand.

      The flaw in the protectionist mindset is actually that real local music is ignored by the 'industry', which looks for US-sounding rip-offs that it thinks will be exportable. Of course, they won't be anyway (who in the States wants a Kiwi copy of their own music?) but financiers don't get art or how to make a business of it.

    5. Re:smaller countries will freak out more over ip by duckInferno · · Score: 1

      Speaking as a kiwi...

      Wut?

      --
      Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it -- I'm huge!
  19. Worst. Summary. Ever. by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The copyright holder can then demand that an ISP disconnects that user

    And the language in the article the implies that is...?

    without the user ever having a chance to demonstrate their evidence.

    Mmm hmm. "users should be able to flag to an independent adjudicator anything they regard as mistaken evidence"

    Of course, I'm making the mistake of Reading The Fine Article, and trying to make evidence-based comments, rather than commenting on what I imagine the law will be like. I'm clearly The Man's bitch.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    1. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by tacarat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "users should be able to flag to an independent adjudicator anything they regard as mistaken evidence"

      "Should" is an interesting word, though. RIAA's problem with it's American cases is meeting evidence criteria that a crime was committed. And that's with so called experts helping them. What will the threshold be for proving your innocence? More to the point, what will have to be done to make sure it's brought to an independent adjudicator? If the adjudicator isn't sympathetic or sufficiently technical, then a "well, you did download/share and only deleted it off your computer after the fact" argument will be sufficient to force the person to have to pay the fine or whatever. And that's assuming the person actually knows enough or has the resources to bring about a good case of innocence. If they don't and are innocent, then they're being forced to pay for a crime that they didn't even get to commit!

      Nope, don't like it.

      --
      "Common sense will be the death of us all"
    2. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where is the wording for the bill?

      According to New Zealand Legislation the ISP (not the copyright holder) determines when and under what circumstances to disconnect the user, and then only in the case of repeat offenders (Which admittedly isn't well defined).

    3. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with the PROPOSITION that "users should be able to flag to an independent adjudicator anything they regard as mistaken evidence"

      (emphasis mine).

      I think you must have slipped when copying and pasting there.

    4. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by Myrimos · · Score: 1

      Of course, I'm making the mistake of Reading The Fine Article...

      Oh. So that's what the "F" stands for. I always wondered about that.

      --
      Internet scofflaw
    5. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      So what we have here is yet another badly written law that some judge (I'm assuming NZ's judiciary has similar powers to other judiciaries in the Free World) is going to have to interpret. I don't know about the rest of you, but the thought that my right to appeal is described by the chief cheerleader for the legislation as a matter of "should be able to" doesn't exactly overwhelm me.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    6. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are reading the article correctly, but sadly how the law actually works has been understated greatly (probably in an attempt to spin it).

      Section 92A makes it clear that ISPs MUST cut off any account where the copyright holder makes a repeated accusation of infringement. The user has no ability to protest this.

      There is no independent adjudicator which has been established and there is no ability in the law for a person to protest before they are cut off. Sure, eventually they may be able to convince the ISP to reinstate their account but Iâ(TM)m guessing it wonâ(TM)t be easy.

      The bigger problem is the assumption of guilt. NZâ(TM)s legal system is founded on common law and the presumption of innocence. That concept appears to have been thrown out the window where there is money involved.

      People overseas should be vary wary of what has happened in this little country. Very few artists and copyright holders will ever suffer financially due to file sharing with NZ. Our population is only 4.5 million, itâ(TM)s a tiny market.

      But if the RIAA can get laws like this accepted here it creates a much stronger argument when they are lobbying for law change in Australia, or Canada or the UK or the US.

    7. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > RIAA's problem with it's American cases is meeting evidence criteria that a crime was
      > committed.

      The RIAA is filing civil lawsuits, not criminal complaints.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    8. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by corrie · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're making the mistake of believing the article. If you weren't someone's bitch, you would've found the actual law:

      http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0027/latest/DLM1122643.html

    9. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      Mmm hmm. "users should be able to flag to an independent adjudicator anything they regard as mistaken evidence"

      He's playing word-games (that's a nice euphemism for "lying through his teeth") when he says he thinks an independent adjudicator would be a good idea. The classic example of an independent adjudicator is a court; but no way in hell does he want courts deciding this kind of thing.

      Why, I wonder? After all, it's not as though courts are supposed to be independent, or have any experience in the whole adjudication business ...

      The declaration you quote simply doesn't hang together. He says he wants independent adjudication, but it is manifestly obvious that he actually wants anything but independent adjudication. In fact I'd go so far as to conclude that what he really means is "independent of the judicial system".

      Let's take a look at another couple of his statements, all from the page you quote from:

      There are no human rights issue involved.

      • Internet access is an aspect of freedom of speech.
      • No provision is made either in law or in any code of practice that I've seen for re-connection. Ever. You get accused (and found guilty by an "independent adjudicator") one too many times, you're exiled from the internet for life.
      • The process as a whole is clearly not designed for the benefit of artists, as only publishing corporations are capable of developing the infrastructure to use the process.

      "No human rights issue" my shiny metal arse.

      Preventing copyright infringement is something that ISPs already set out in their terms and conditions.

      So why push for duplication of the regulations?

      Section 92A will be great news for consumers

      OK, this one is just so manifestly the exact opposite of the truth that it gets beyond stupid and into the realm of insanity. Come on, after reading that, you can't really seriously be imagining that this is a man whose words are to be taken at face value -- can you? -- when he says things like "independent adjudicator".

    10. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      So then read the actual wording of the law and not some lobby dudes PR campaign piece with an axe to grind.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    11. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "users should be able to flag to an independent adjudicator anything they regard as mistaken evidence"

      Yes, they "should be able to", but under the proposed law they can't.

    12. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by holloway · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mmm hmm. "users should be able to flag to an independent adjudicator anything they regard as mistaken evidence"

      Of course, I'm making the mistake of Reading The Fine Article, and trying to make evidence-based comments, rather than commenting on what I imagine the law will be like. I'm clearly The Man's bitch.

      The TCF code isn't released yet. The draft code had either the ISP judging it or the rights holder (yes, the accuser becomes the judge!). There is no established independent body of qualified experts (well, other than to take it to court).

      You might be interested in this list of problems with Section 92A.

      1. No Independent Qualified Adjudicator: There's no currently qualified or trusted independent 3rd party to judge (1) data forensics and (2) copyright law, so decisions must be based either on allegation or prosecution. Our positive solution to this is an extension in jurisdiction to the underutilised Copyright Tribunal (who currently handle only licensing disputes, of approximately one per year).

      2. Unclear Legislation: People don't know how to obey the law because it's poorly drafted and vague. The heavyweight TCF policy was written by and for conventional ISPs and it is inappropriate for the majority of "ISPs" under the new broad definition that includes libraries, schools, businesses, many homes, hotels, etc.

      3. Innocent People Framed: People can be easily framed for copyright infringement online, see http://dmca.cs.washington.edu/ . There are hundreds of Data Forensics experts in NZ that can tell the difference but expecting thousands of untrained businesses to do the same is impractical and ridiculous.

      4. Impractical and Technically Unrealistic Demands: Tens of thousands of internet devices in New Zealand are incapable of storing who accessed what, at what time, making corroborating accusations impossible. It would be like expecting, come March 27th, for all New Zealanders to be able to track who used a phone within a household or a business. Most phones just don't have that capability, and most network devices don't have that capability. Accurately tracking copyright infringement is a noble goal to head towards but we're not there yet and therefore S92A is unrealistic and impractical. Government could amend the definition of an "ISP" to be instead a "CSP" (commercial service provider) which would reduce the scope to conventional ISPs like Xtra and Vodafone who are capable of tracking. They could then increase the scope of an "ISP" as internet hardware improves. In the meantime people can still be taken to court as they always could to resolve disputes (or possibly a Copyright Tribunal if that's established).

      5. Business Compliance Costs: The business compliance costs of tracking (a practical necessity to corroborate future accusations) both in terms of buying tens of thousands of new hardware devices for the businesses now deemed "ISPs" have not been factored. Consumer-grade internet hardware devices capable of doing this cost approximately $750. We have been doing research on this and we may have some results early next week. It'll certainly be tens of thousands of "ISPs" who need to spend that kind of money... and then you need data forensics and copyright law knowledge to use that tracked information.

      6. A Disproportionate Punishment: Internet disconnection is a disproportionate punishment that hasn't been enforced by the courts in the past, even in extreme cases of copyright infringement (repeat commercial infringers as judged in a court didn't get this punishment). Fines would be more appropriate and would protect businesses and home users. Music Industry studies suggesting people prefer internet disconnection to fines did not consult businesses or organisations (many of whom depend on the internet as much as a phone line). Further, the law doesn't distinguish between a copyright infringement such as a thirteen year old's self

    13. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by Jason+Pollock · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's important to know the actual text of the legislation:

      http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0027/latest/DLM1122643.html

      92A Internet service provider must have policy for terminating accounts of repeat infringers
                  (1) An Internet service provider must adopt and reasonably implement a policy that provides for termination, in appropriate circumstances, of the account with that Internet service provider of a repeat infringer.
                  (2) In subsection (1), repeat infringer means a person who repeatedly infringes the copyright in a work by using 1 or more of the Internet services of the Internet service provider to do a restricted act without the consent of the copyright owner.

      The bits that are interesting are:

      1) The definition of ISP is anyone who provides access to anyone else - libraries, schools, businesses are all ISPs.
      2) There is no definition of "repeat offender"
      3) There is no definition of what is an acceptable policy.
      4) There is no punishment for fraudulent complaints.

      Add to that the TCF (large ISPs) draft policy:
      http://tinyurl.com/tcf-draft-pdf

      which is a 4 strikes and you're out policy, with no ability to have the evidence tested in court.

      Now, initially the TCF policy stated that you could challenge the complaint and that would be the end of it - it was up to the copyright holder to pursue you further. However, the RIANZ then came back and said that they wanted to be the sole determiner of guilt.

      This law starts from the assumption that if the RIANZ says you are guilty of violating copyright, then you _are_ guilty, and you get a warning. Collect 4, and your internet connection is removed. Since they have to remove the connection of repeat offenders, it could be reasonable to expect to not be able to get another one (ref: Google and "Wise Beard Man": http://www.chillingeffects.org/weather.cgi?WeatherID=605 ).

      S92C, which covers hosts, is even stronger, you don't get any warnings. You have to pull the content, or you lose your connection instantly.

      Mr Smith, when asked, considers the Prince vs Baby video (
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KfJHFWlhQ
      ) as well as linking to the video to be a violation of copyright, and worthy of a notice and violation letter.

    14. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by tacarat · · Score: 1

      Oh, my mistake. Still, it has no bearing on the fact that they aren't getting the evidence needed to make the cases, criminal or civil, go their way.

      --
      "Common sense will be the death of us all"
    15. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      "users should be able to flag to an independent adjudicator anything they regard as mistaken evidence"

      That line was the most laughable to me. There was a provision that was put in by a committee (attended by the ISPs) that would have added penalties for false accusations. The Cabinet, however, had apparently already decided to move forward without the added provision and without any ISP input. They then sounded shocked that the ISPs would object and in fact blamed the ISPs for not expressing their views regardless of the fact that they did in the Select Committee.

      Back to the dropped provision, though. This provision would have put penalties on false accusations. So if I claimed that you downloaded my copyrighted material and you didn't, I'd face some fines. It would mean that I'd better make sure that my evidence was solid before moving forward and it would have helped prevent abuse of the system. Not that abuse would have been impossible, mind you. But it would have been better than what New Zealanders face now. Without the provision, there is no penalty. So I (or the New Zealand RIAA-equivalent) can go around making false accusations left and right. People can be disconnected based on false accusations and their only hope is getting their account reinstated until the accuser makes up another round of accusations. There should at least be some sort of punishment for false accusations.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    16. Re:Worst. Summary. Ever. by ykiwi · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up - the author is the leader of the #blackout campaign and the main voice of reason against this bill.

  20. I see little difference from 18th century idea by unity100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    that says 'it is god given right of aristocrats to rule and peasants to obey'. sometimes elitist people need a hard, cold beating to get some sense beat into them. some kind of people try to suck your blood as long as you let them. this person is one of them. we should presume him guilty and execute his punishment.

  21. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can anyone explain the reasoning behind such vigorous attempts to restrict and control "IP" by these organizations? They're obviously not out to protect the artists, but why go to such lengths for their own interests? Take for example the yU+Co's Watchmen Opening Credits; it uses a minimum amount of movie footage and can help to promote the movie free-of-cost, yet Warner Bros is frothing at the mouth trying to rip this and anything with the vaguest use of "their" copyrights from the tubes.

    These organizations serve as a prime example of why copyright is inherently wrong. The fact that they're only the middlemen and create none of the content themselves but are allowed to exercise an enormous amount of control over it and our culture is insane.

  22. C'mon, seriously by smcdow · · Score: 1

    Could there be a more Kiwi sounding name than "Campbell Smith"?

    --
    In the course of every project, it will become necessary to shoot the scientists and begin production.
    1. Re:C'mon, seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rangi Smith?

  23. Corporations vs Individuals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The copyright holder can then demand that an ISP disconnect that user -- without the user ever having a chance to demonstrate their evidence.

    Just like credit reporting agencies, the corporation is always right, without question or any evidence whatsoever - similarly, the individual consumer is always wrong no matter what. An individual can lodge an objection (for a fee) that you can rest assured will be summarily ignored.

    If only the body corporate could be held legally accountable for the libelous records they maintain. I operate strictly on cash basis now, never will these evil bastards (not slander, it is true) hold any power over me. Similarly, I gave up owning a car because of the increased freedom from excuses for cops to hassle me.

    Face it, individualism means nothing under a capitalist system where corporations are above/write the law and individuals are considered guilty until proven innocent. I would even go so far as to say that perhaps even communism affords greater freedom and at least some semblance of justice for the individual.

    Go ahead, mod this as a troll, I have criticised capitalism. You wouldn't want a statement critical of capitalism/corporatism to be visible now would you? No, you cannot allow that. The truth is too scary, bury it, hide it, then feel smugly self-satisfied that what you deem a troll has been silenced.

  24. This law is an elaborate law student prank? by w0mprat · · Score: 4, Funny

    They were tired of engineers having all the fun. The fact that there are no legal repercussions for false accusation is a giveaway.

    Fun night in:
    1. Get (student) friends together
    2. Drink beer
    3. Send accusation letters to ISPs accusing high-profile/celebrity New Zealanders of copyright infringement.
    4. Drink more beer and wait for media frenzy
    5. Drinksh more beers *hic*
    6. Repeath!

    --
    After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    1. Re:This law is an elaborate law student prank? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      7. ?????
      8. Hangover!

    2. Re:This law is an elaborate law student prank? by ykiwi · · Score: 1

      Except the ISPs will not listen to you - under the draft code they will only listen to RIAA and the like.

  25. I think the idea is... by Turzyx · · Score: 1

    ...that you don't reveal that information. The point of the effort would be to point out how ridiculously easy it would be to abuse the system. Just recently, the FBI was criticised for creating 'honeypots' of illegal pornography. What's to say that the RIANZ won't implement a similar tactic? We already know what lengths these companies will go to in order to make an example of a small few.

  26. omg wordz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "notify ISPs of users who are downloading material."

    Gasp! Downloading MATERIAL??
    Those bastards!

  27. Cultural protectionism not driver of copyright by Geof · · Score: 3, Insightful

    places like canada, or new zealand, there is a strong legal entrenchment of cultural protectionism, because there is already a perception that everyone watches american television and movies, or listens to british music, such that if "native" culture were to lose its protection, it would wither and die . . . it seems to me to be some sort of lack of confidence on the part of canucks and kiwis. or rather, enough canuck and kiwi politicians can be persuaded of this scare tactic by captains of dying media industries

    This is not the driving force for extremist copyright in Canada. The Conservatives, our current governing party, is not friendly to the arts, but they are happy to go along with American demands. Many Canadian industry and arts organizations (and many, many Canadians) are opposed to the changes, but it is largely American officials and organizations representing American interests who pay the lobbyists and get the face time with our politicians.

    Now in Quebec it is true that culture is of central political importance. The large arts organizations there are in favor of extreme copyright laws. Quebec's approach to copyright is much closer to the moral imperative of authorial control in France, les droits d'auteur, than to the pragmatism of Anglo-American copyright. And I believe there is a tradition in Quebec (as in France) of seeing large organizations as important forces for the preservation of society. Those traditions are likely to support copyright extremism regardless of what tools are at their disposal - though preservation of French culture is always one of those.

    I shouldn't open up a can of worms, but don't mock what you call "cultural protectionism". The United States followed a similar course in its early days (hence American spelling and the lack of respect for foreign copyrights). Though it has largely failed in Canada, and though it is used to justify ridiculous proposals (e.g. Canadian content quotas for web sites), the concern that originally drove it are legitimate. Canadian culture *has*, to a large extent, failed to thrive in the face of American imports. Americans own our movie distribution network, sell TV series cheaper than we can produce them but won't themselves buy material set in Canada, and so on. Americans tend to see this in terms of free markets for a cultural product. Many countries and peoples see culture as a matter of national identity. Canadians have long supported a greater role for government in the production of culture and information. The lack of confidence you describe does exist among some in Canada, but before you jump on "small countries" as being special in this regard, take a look at the culture wars in the United states (over prayer in schools, flag burning, prudishness about depictions of sex but not violence, and so on).

    Also, the "small country" stereotype doesn't work. Before you slot France in with Canada, keep in mind that it has a larger population than the U.K. (I believe surveys have found Brits suffer from lower national confindence). The U.S. has five times the population of the U.K. Canada has a tenth the population of the U.S., and about ten times the population of N.Z. English speaking countries have fewer barriers to influence by American culture, and Canada is right next door.

    The copyright war is not driven by small countries or cultural inferiority complexes. It is conducted mainly by the United States (with collaboration with allies, including Canada) at the behest of a handful of huge transnational companies like Disney, General Electric, Viacom, Fox, Time-Warner, Sony, Microsoft, a few others. Almost no countries are sufficiently powerful or independent to put up effective resistance.

  28. Re: I hope this is shopped by The+name+is+Dave.+Ja · · Score: 1

    Dude, you broke his seriousright:
    as such any attempts to derive humour are doomed to instant failure.
    No more mango juice for you; it's off to jail, you backwards Kcing!
    (Great catch though!)

  29. ISP's are for this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, the ISP's will agree to disconnecting Users / Subscribers?

    In short, they're going to go along with cutting their Income sources - especially in these bad Economic times . . . .

    Sounds like a winner to me.

  30. So let's do this... by purpleraison · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Those of us who do not live in New Zealand can easily (or relatively) file motions to have lawyers, judges, politicians families etc, cut off due to our claims that they have downloaded copyrighted material.

    Since we don't live in New Zealand, even 'if' we are incorrect and they didn't... they have no recourse. However, the families of New Zealand politicians et al are just as 'guilty' as the next person-- we all know that, just as their kids do.

    The only question will be how to find their IP addresses... but it will be a hop, skip, and a jump before NOBODY in NZ has internet... how do you think the internet providers (and the population) will feel about the law then?

    --
    I am open source, and Linux baby!
    1. Re:So let's do this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, committing fraud and harassment will get them to change the law.

      Wait, no. What it will do is cause them to apply to extradite you from your country, or even just contact your local prosecutor and let them deal with you.

      Cuz you know, the New Zealanders aren't stupid retards as you seem to hthink they are.

  31. The really insidious bit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is not an option - apparently only members of the RIANZ and affiliates can make the request. Indie artists are not protected by the new law.

    1. Re:The really insidious bit... by Fluffeh · · Score: 1

      Where did you get this little bit then eh?

      And don't go modding it Informative unless you see it's actually true, rather than just stirring the pot more.

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
  32. How's this for an idea? by AttillaTheNun · · Score: 1
    Treat live shows and pre-recorded material in the same manner.

    The only control a creative artist has is over the initial release of new material. Once its out there, there isn't anything anyone can do to limit its distribution.

    A successful business model works with the grain, as opposed to trying to impose artificial barriers.

    If I want to see a live show, I buy a ticket to attend. I am basing fair value on the artist's past performances and accumulated goodwill. There is no guarantee any particular performance will live up to or stand above average. Based on demand, the artist scales up or down supply and cost per performance, accordingly. There is nothing I can do to create more instances of the live show to be distributed beyond the artist's control.

    When it comes to pre-recorded material, the initial release of the material is the last and only control an artist has over the distribution of material

    If I were a talented artist (I'm not), I would put all of my energies into building a demand, via live shows and maximum exposure and distribution of some initial recorded content (for free), in the interest of building demand.

    Once I have established deman, I would solicit payment (in the form of online donations, perhaps) for subsequent releases only - a song at a time. When I've determined that I have received fair payment (entirely subjective, depending on demand, no different than live shows), I would release the material.

    It takes a small leap of faith and customer goodwill earned in the short term, but it is a self-correcting revenue model. Whether I under or over-deliver, the incoming revenue would eventually correct itself to reflect what my target market considers fair value.

  33. The Act is available online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    You can view it here.

    Hopefully this will clear up some questions and suppositions about what is actually changing.

      - Kiwi

    1. Re:The Act is available online by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      You can view it here.

      Hopefully this will clear up some questions and suppositions about what is actually changing.

      - Kiwi

      Alas, it doesn't clear up all that much. The Act states that ISPs must have a reasonable policy in place for dealing with takedown notices. It lays down only very loose guidelines for what form those takedown notices should take, and gives absolutely no guidance on

      • what counts as a "reasonable" policy
      • what counts as adequate evidence (assuming the policy even considers evidence; the law itself does not require evidence)
      • who gets to write the policy (the ISPs produce a draft, but since then have simply been letting record publishers veto anything they want)
      • who has to enforce the policy (neither the ISPs nor the record publishers want to pay for enforcement; AFAIK this is still stalemated)
      • provision for reconnection at a later date
      • arbitration in disputed cases (assuming the policy allows for disputing takedown notices; the law itself does not require this); this should be almost all cases
      • liability in the event of unjust disconnection

      It's just a really, really badly thought out law.

      - also kiwi

  34. No bias in this Slashdot summary! by bonch · · Score: 1

    No, sir. It's totally objective to put "Draconian Law" in the headline. There's no way it's an attempt to direct the discussion. Not one bit.

    1. Re:No bias in this Slashdot summary! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I calls them as sees them... Whale biologist!" (Futurama - 300 Big Boys)

    2. Re:No bias in this Slashdot summary! by M-RES · · Score: 2, Informative

      dra-co-ni-an adj. Exceedingly harsh; very severe: a draconian legal code; draconian budget cuts.

      I'd say it's fairly accurate to call laws that find an individual guilty until proven innocent draconian. The whole idea of a legal and judicial process is that guilt is not established until the summary of the court (or tribunal) proceedings and all sides have been heard. Normally police (in criminal cases) or solicitors (in civil cases) need to establish evidence to prove this guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but this law allows 'rights owners' to merely suggest that someone has broken a law to have them denied of a service they have paid another company for.

    3. Re:No bias in this Slashdot summary! by holloway · · Score: 2, Informative

      Further, our Prime Minister John Key called it "draconian" on the radio.

    4. Re:No bias in this Slashdot summary! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm willing to bet that's only because Judith Tizard pulled it out of her Lobbyist hat.

  35. RIANZ contact emails, tell them what you think! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Campbell Smith Chief Executive Officer campbell@rianz.org.nz

    Penny Hext Finance Director penny@rianz.org.nz

    Mark McCall Director Anti Piracy markm@rianz.org.nz

    Jacque Kendall Office Manager jacque@rianz.org.nz

    Dean Cameron Distribution & Member Services Manager dean@rianz.org.nz

    Denise Story Accounts denise@rianz.org.nz

    Jessica Rice Account asst jessica@rianz.org.nz

    Maria Griffith Music Awards & Database Administrator maria@rianz.org.nz

  36. So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is Slashdot supposed to be unbiased?

  37. i don't believe canadian culture exists by circletimessquare · · Score: 0, Troll

    what i believe is that there is an anglo north american culture, which canada and the usa straddle

    ignoring the frogs in quebec of course

    but it seems to me there are more differences between say, new england culture and southeastern us culture, than between new england culture and maritime culture

    and out west, or in the great plains? even much less of a difference. the difference between san francisco and vancouver, for example, seems infinitesimal (compared on a scale of something like the change in culturally unique signifiers when moving between any other similar distance in really any other part of the world)

    molson and hockey don't make a unique culture, eh?

    however, i am not trying to belittle canada. your political and social environment, i envy and consider superior to the usa. we need universal healthcare in the usa badly, and your fuddy duddy banking system is now the envy of all

    but i just don't see much difference culturally between myself and an anglocanadian. i see more difference between myself and someone from texas, for example (disclaimer: from new england)

    on the other hand, anything you might define as uniquely canadian culture should be utterly destroyed, in retaliation for giving us tom green ;-)

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:i don't believe canadian culture exists by Geof · · Score: 2, Interesting

      what i believe is that there is an anglo north american culture, which canada and the usa straddle

      I agree. Though I am quite disturbed when people diss the Quebecois (or, for that matter, the French). I sometimes suspect that after Britain conquered New France, it was the anglophones who assimilated to the French culture. I can't quite put my finger on it. When I travelled in Europe and ran into Quebecois, I found there was a certain common cultural understanding or attitude that made them fundamentally more like me than the Americans I encountered (who were mostly very nice folks from a variety of places).

      There are many things I admire about Quebec (and some I don't). Their political influence has led to some quite bad decisions, but they have also saved us from time to time. A minor example is unpasteurized soft cheeses, whose import the government had planned to ban for unsubstantiated health reasons. Another example is their liberal attitudes towards sex. I recall a survey finding that most Quebecois would rather their teenaged kids had sex at home, instead of taking a hardline approach that would result in it happening elsewhere. I am also tremendously impressed that almost all their top TV shows are made in Quebec. I doubt many countries with five times their population can say that.

      There has been a huge cultural shift. My father once told me that he was taught in school (where he pledged allegiance to the flag and the Empire for which it stood - meaning the Union Jack) that Americans were emotionally flighty and unstable. This explained their intemperate rebellion, while responsible dependable Canadians remained loyal - and in the case of some of my ancestors lost their land in New England. Not that my father believes that now or is anti-American by any stretch of the imagination. But how can I judge or reject the culture to which I have assimilated? The fact is, there was something (good or bad) that Canada was trying to protect.

      There are reasons for maintaining an independent culture. Among them: It is an important bond in a country whose population is a thin line smeared along the U.S. border. The stories culture tells us hold us together - but stories from the U.S. (at least in film and TV) are always about somewhere else, as though where we are doesn't exist or is irrelevant. And we do have different political values (health care, a role for government (as in banking), etc.), which are reflected in and affected by the culture we experience. Because of TV, Canadians often confuse American laws and institutions with Canadian ones. For example, they think we have Fair Use of copyrighted works, that we elect a Prime Minister (we elect only a riding (district) representative), that we can sue for all sorts of things we can't, and so on.

    2. Re:i don't believe canadian culture exists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We need universal healthcare in the usa badly, and your fuddy duddy banking system is now the envy of all"

      Despite your lack of capitals, for once you actually wrote something worth reading, amazing!

    3. Re:i don't believe canadian culture exists by MstrFool · · Score: 1

      You know, there is a way to address some of the culture concerns. I'm in the US, though I have traveled a lot of the world. I for one would /love/ to see local shows from all over the world accessible through the net. Want your culture to get support and be known? Open it up and show the world. It looks like NZ may be doing this by their local TV corps putting their shows on-line, I just hope they don't lock it to local viewers only. Canada offers many of it's local shows as well, but sadly locked them to prevent non Canadians from seeing them and learning your culture. The US is swamping the world with our culture because we are spewing it out at a level that makes it nearly impossible to avoid, despite the actions of the RIAA and MPAA. I think the entire world would benefit from all countries opening up their local entertainment for the world to see and share in the way that we used to do, rather then following the self isolating and self destructive examples we have been displaying of late. I love my country and I love my culture, and I am fully aware that both came into being only because of the people and culture that came from other countries. It's an interesting world, don't let corporate greed and fear get in the way of discovering it.

      --
      Question reality.
    4. Re:i don't believe canadian culture exists by Geof · · Score: 1

      Want your culture to get support and be known? Open it up and show the world.

      I couldn't agree more. If we care about our culture - or indeed any culture - then we need to create the conditions for it to thrive, not fence it in and manage it to death, continuing on a path that has already failed.

      If I recall correctly, Canada is one of the world's top exporters of TV shows (who knew). We're strong in music, video games, and film production, with traditions in animation and documentary filmmaking also. Enacting made-in-Hollywood copyright laws will only continue to leave the greater part of our artists at the mercy of distribution channels that have locked us out for so long. So far, it seems many of the most powerful arts organizations (within and without government) just don't get it (though the documentarists and many musicians are more enlightened). Though at this point the government doesn't talk to them so much (if at all), preferring to trade horses with the U.S., which in turn represents their entertainment industry.

  38. bicrunga,whalerider,peterjackson,ernestrutherford by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    i can tick off significant kiwi influences on my life off the top of my head

    but the closest i've ever come to new zealand is mindanao, philippines

    and i think your keas are adorable, your wetas not so much

    you shouldn't belittle kiwi culture, its a bigger deal than you think

    just stop diddling the sheep, will ya? ;-)

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  39. There was a Q&A with Mr Smith. by Jason+Pollock · · Score: 2, Informative

    There was a slashdot style Q&A with Mr Smi on a New Zealand IT forum:

    http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=95&topicid=30765

  40. Not all copyrighted material downloaded is stolen. by JayGuerette · · Score: 1

    I have a lot of records & CDs. I *could* convert my collection to MP3s, but I am lazy. I sometimes download someone else's copy.

    I *have* the physical media; have I committed a crime?
    Has the person who made it available for download committed a crime?
    Are they given the chance to prove they also own the physical media?
    If they don't, then the possession of the MP3 *may* be illegal, but is the transfer of a copy to me illegal?
    Am I not legally entitled to own a digital copy of the music I bought on physical media?
    Do I have to make it myself in order for it to be legal?
    Can I legally make my copy available to others who have asserted they own the physical media also?

    Internet connectivity is approaching "utility" status with many people. It's how I work, how I do my banking, and how I make & receive phone calls. Should mere accusations of alleged illegal activities be permitted to shut me off?

  41. Reason for Such Laws by shermo · · Score: 1

    Quote by John Key, Prime-Minister of NZ:

    "If New Zealand was to sign a free-trade agreement with America for instance, we would need an equivalent of Section 92A,".

    Thanks America!

    On the bright side, America is instituting protectionist policies due to its financial difficulties.

    --
    Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
  42. Trade value? by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 1

    "The trade value of recorded music worldwide has fallen by more than a fifth in the past 10 years, despite more people than ever using and enjoying it."

    He says that like it is a bad thing. We live in a world in which there is already more recorded music available than could be listened to in several lifetimes, with more being made every day. The costs of making it are continually dropping due to the abilities of PCs and home studios, and the cost of distribution is effectively zero thanks to the internet. The price should be dropping like a rock.

    The cost of computing power has dropped immensely over the past couple of decades. It's not a tragedy that CPU producers can't make the same amount of money per unit of computing power as they did in 1988; in fact, it is an incredible boon to society.

  43. The recording industry sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope they go out of business. Solution: Everyone should just boycott the entire industry for a few years. Don't listen to their products or have anything to do with them. Let them go out of business.

  44. Check the facts before screaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've posted on this at maantren.blogspot.com, including - shock, horror! - links to the actual legislation and code of conduct. Most of the discussion around S92A is hysterical, uninformed, and misses the real point - why not check the facts first?

    Cheers

    Colin

  45. Re:bicrunga,whalerider,peterjackson,ernestrutherfo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yea I remember the good ol days. When men were men and sheep were nervous.

  46. I can accept presumed-guilty if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a legislated minimum award to the defendant (I think $1,000 per day disconnected - indexed by CPI - is about right. Plus court costs of course) if the copyright infringement case is not upheld in a court of law.

    If you go down the path of presumed-guilty then the retribution for wrongful accusation must be significant and there should also be severe penalties for any spurious or malicious claims.

    My $0.02 worth.

  47. Re: I hope this is cropped by The+name+is+Dave.+Ja · · Score: 1

    Note: only makes sense if you have sigs enabled (and even then ... )

  48. Hate to play Devil's advocate... by gillbates · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But prior to the invention of technology which allowed widespread distribution of music and dramatic performances, the best an artist could hope for would be a kingly sponsorship. A musician couldn't make a living without actually performing, nor could an actor make a living without constantly acting.

    There's nothing today preventing artists from making their money the old fashioned way. They could simply tour to bring in revenue, if they so chose. But they want to continue to make money on performances long after they've put their instruments away. And this is what the likes of RIAA-member companies promise them. Are they getting exploited? Perhaps in a few cases, yes. Are they exploiting the public at large? Yes, every time. The creative arts are the only discipline in which the workers and those who exploit them expect to make profit long after the work is done.

    If you're not paying for live performances, you're contributing to this condition. Buying CDs, music/movie downloads (legal or not) - these all contribute to the notion that an artist deserves to be compensated multiple times for work they've done only once. But then again, when you buy that CD, you get to enjoy content indefinitely without paying the artist any further royalties.

    If you don't like the copyright model, then do something about it. I suspect, however, that most people would rather put up with copyright than live in a society without it. Without copyright, every artist would simply resort to live performances, and we'd have a situation where hearing our favorite music was a matter of being in the right place at the right time and paying a hefty cover charge, *every time*.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    1. Re:Hate to play Devil's advocate... by icebike · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Without copyright, every artist would simply resort to live performances, and we'd have a situation where hearing our favorite music was a matter of being in the right place at the right time and paying a hefty cover charge, *every time*.

      I don't believe that for a second. And deep down, neither do you I suspect.

      The problem isn't copyright.

      Other than a few Cathedral/Bazaar types, few people advocate for the total abolishment of copyright. We don't mind paying a reasonable price for good recordings. We wouldn't even mind paying per-Listening if any suitable billing system could be contrived.

      Music did not spontaneously arise upon the invention of copyright. People did, and still would, gladly pay the artists either directly OR for recordings. But we need not return to pre-copyright era to achieve a balance.

      This is my only point. The sooner the artists "grow up" and take control of a modern private electronic distribution chain, the better for all concerned.

      As for the "few" that get exploited, I think you would be surprised at the candid opinions of virtually every major recording artist on this issue. Yet, to date, they have had no real choice but to sign, sign, sign.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:Hate to play Devil's advocate... by garett_spencley · · Score: 3, Informative

      "The problem isn't copyright.

      Other than a few Cathedral/Bazaar types, few people advocate for the total abolishment of copyright. We don't mind paying a reasonable price for good recordings. We wouldn't even mind paying per-Listening if any suitable billing system could be contrived."

      The problem with copyright is that it benefits the distributors, which has never been the artists. Even with the Internet, copyright is never going to benefit the artists.

      To provide some context to my opinion, I am an artist. I own the copyright to lots of works. I've recorded an album. I've written short stories. I've created many paintings. You know how much copyright has benefited me ? None.

      In fact, WITHOUT copyright I would have the potential to benefit much more. Why ? Because if a radio station or a distribution company did not have to worry about copyrights and royalties I could get much more exposure, in theory. Of course it all boils down to whether or not my creations are any good. But copyright can not force people to pay money for bad music (all opinions about Britney Spears aside).

      The fallacy with the concept of copyright is that it confuses the creative genius with the entrepreneur. The VAST majority of artists do not create for the sake of profiting from their work. Sure, there is always the dream. The dream that we will "make it" and be famous rock stars playing for sold out shows and having hoards of hot groupies wanting to have sex with us and die at a young age from a drug overdose. But the minute you start talking business and economics with artists you destroy the entire process of "creating" for them.

      I'm in a unique position because I happen to be self-employed as well. But that hasn't enabled me to make lots of money from my work. Nor has the ability to maintain a monopoly on the distribution of my work ever been an incentive to create. The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Business and art are worlds apart. While I can not speak for all artists, I know that this is true for every single musicians that I have ever had to pleasure of creating with. Some of them are pretty good at making money playing shows or doing studio work for hire, but when it comes to writing their own material, to creating, the business side of it never enters into the equation (unless they're under contract, and that has arguably destroyed more creative minds than has helped - inspiration can not be turned on with a switch and trying to do so often results in writer's block which can financially ruin an artist who is under contract).

      The argument for copyright (for the artists' sake) usually boils down to this: morally speaking we don't want "greedy fat-cat rich capitalists" to be able to profit from our work without compensating us. While I can certainly understand this principle, I think that it would actually be in every artist's best interest to allow those entrepreneurs to do so. Why ? Because if the artist is lucky enough to get "picked up" and distributed, and the venture does well enough to earn the entrepreneur a profit, the artist is now famous. Without having to do a damned thing. Now, having the fame, the artist has been given a gift and can do with it as he/she pleases. They can package all of those songs that the entrepreneur is distributing sans-royalty, add a couple of new creations (one song, or some behind the scenes stuff or whatever) and then out-compete the entrepreneur. The entrepreneur has made a profit, the artist can now make a profit that he/she could not have made prior etc. Yet as long as the entrepreneurs has to worry about copyrights and royalties they will only concern themselves with those artists who are willing to enter into ridiculously one-sided contracts because the artist wants to get famous, nothing else matters.

      The Internet changes very little. Yes, it is WAY easier for an artist to earn him/her-self exposure on the Internet now. However, copyright does not help that at all. It hinders it. No website can put up music without the artist's permission. So exposure for new artists is still entirely limited by how business-savy and/or lucky the artist is.

    3. Re:Hate to play Devil's advocate... by zobier · · Score: 2, Informative

      Without copyright, every artist would simply resort to live performances, and we'd have a situation where hearing our favorite music was a matter of being in the right place at the right time and paying a hefty cover charge, *every time*.

      Nice logical fallacy there. No, without copyright there would likely still be recordings of works (even if just live performances) which we could listen to whenever we damn pleased.

      --
      Me lost me cookie at the disco.
    4. Re:Hate to play Devil's advocate... by wvmarle · · Score: 3, Informative

      Very interesting point of view you have here, it outlines a quite different business model than I am used to. A business model though that makes sense: about ten years ago I was quite involved in the local pop scene, and learned that many bands while under a record label were barely making any money from album sales. And quite some considered albums (and certainly singles) as pure promotion, not something you make money off.

      They made money off concerts fees, and merchandise sales during the concerts (t-shirts with the band logo usually).

      Some made money from albums, but even the better selling ones barely got an income out of it. It went all to the record company that made the investment in recording the album. Most bands even didn't care about it: they got famous, they got the gigs, made a reasonable income out of it (almost none would get rich). When Napster came along some bands even started promoting the use of this network, but that caused friction with the record company of course.

      The problem without copyright is how to make sure you can get back your investment on a recording. Studio time is still expensive, even though it's falling rapidly, recording an album is still quite an investment. Having copyright on the recording would guarantee a limited time (5-10 years is more than enough I think) to make up for your investment. Without copyrights the making of recordings I think will become really hard, and thus hurting the exposure of a musician. No recordings means no exposure.

      Where the business model should change is the freedom of the artist. I think it's kind of what you mean, but it's not written explicitly. The artists should not sign for a record label - they could create a song, and then sell/license the song to the record label: the record label then invests in the recording and promotion of the song (or complete album), and the artist is free to arrange their own gigs. Or maybe have the record company help with that, or a separate booking office.

      This won't work of course because of greed: artists will happily sign a seven-album contract because they think they will really make it. Only to be dumped after the first flops, and being unable to make more albums because they are still under contract. Greed - from the record label side but at least as much if not more from the artist's side - is why we have the current situation. And that won't change soon.

    5. Re:Hate to play Devil's advocate... by garett_spencley · · Score: 2, Informative

      "The problem without copyright is how to make sure you can get back your investment on a recording. Studio time is still expensive, even though it's falling rapidly, recording an album is still quite an investment. Having copyright on the recording would guarantee a limited time (5-10 years is more than enough I think) to make up for your investment. Without copyrights the making of recordings I think will become really hard, and thus hurting the exposure of a musician. No recordings means no exposure. "

      But the issue is that copyright does not ensure that you will get your investment back. It doesn't even help. At all.

      Let's say that I go into the studio and invest some money to record an album, and then some 3rd party business, without my permission, decides to copy it and distribute it.

      Scenario 1: They hurt me by taking credit for the work. They also hurt the consumers by misrepresenting the product. This is fraud and is very much illegal without the presence of copyright.

      Scenario 2: They are unsuccessful because no one likes my creation. Copyright doesn't make people like things. So even with copyright I would not be helped at all.

      Scenario 3: They are successful and make money through their venture. Lots of people like to consider this "stealing", since they're not compensating the artist. However, in actuality they have made it EASIER for me to recoup my investment by giving me new fans that I would not have had otherwise. As the artist, I will always have more credibility with fans than some 3rd party business. Yes, there are fans who just want a couple of singles for as cheap as possible. They will probably download the songs and not pay anything at all to anyone. The business who is distributing my work is probably selling to people who want large collections of songs by various artists. These people want to "discover" new music and these businesses provide them a way to do that. Furthermore, the business might be a big radio station who's DJ has found me and wants to share my work. With copyright he can't unless he contacts me first and gets my permission, the costs involved make it not worthy. Anyway these people who buy from the 3rd parties and not from me still help me indirectly by telling their friends about me etc. The "die hard" fans will always buy from ME because they want to get their work directly from the artist. They want the extra stuff that I bundle with my own CDs. These 3rd party businesses give me more of the die hard fans. Which always helps me. Copyright never helps me.

      With the presence of copyright, doors close. For the artists and businesses alike. The only people who benefit from copyright are big corporations who hold a massive portfolio of copyrights and want to keep out competitors. Those competitors actually INCLUDE THE ARTISTS THEMSELVES! In fact, the artists are the primary competitors because they can always outbid the big distributors to the die hard fans who want to get their material directly from the artist, complete with all of the bonus stuff that the artist is able to package.

    6. Re:Hate to play Devil's advocate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its hardly a logical fallacy to suggest that someone who makes their living offering live performances is going to allow their work to be recorded. Even with copyright protection, camcorders aren't allowed in theaters.

    7. Re:Hate to play Devil's advocate... by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Other than a few Cathedral/Bazaar types, few people advocate for the total abolishment of copyright.

      True. And if copyright were reformed, giving it a truly limited time like patents have (and I would opine that the 20 year length of patents would be a good length for copyright), if the DMCA were abolished (or even better, if one lost copyright for encrypting works) I think even fewer (far fewer) people would advocate total abolishment of copyright.

    8. Re:Hate to play Devil's advocate... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The creative arts are the only discipline in which the workers and those who exploit them expect to make profit long after the work is done

      The creative arts are the onl;y discipline where the workers expect to make profit long after the work is done, but not those who exploit them. Landlords have construction workers build property, which they collect profit from until the building falls down. A well built bilding might last almost half as long as a copyright.

    9. Re:Hate to play Devil's advocate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But prior to the invention of technology which allowed widespread distribution of music and dramatic performances, the best an artist could hope for would be a kingly sponsorship. A musician couldn't make a living without actually performing, nor could an actor make a living without constantly acting.

      There's nothing today preventing artists from making their money the old fashioned way. They could simply tour to bring in revenue, if they so chose. But they want to continue to make money on performances long after they've put their instruments away. And this is what the likes of RIAA-member companies promise them. Are they getting exploited? Perhaps in a few cases, yes. Are they exploiting the public at large? Yes, every time. The creative arts are the only discipline in which the workers and those who exploit them expect to make profit long after the work is done.

      If you're not paying for live performances, you're contributing to this condition. Buying CDs, music/movie downloads (legal or not) - these all contribute to the notion that an artist deserves to be compensated multiple times for work they've done only once. But then again, when you buy that CD, you get to enjoy content indefinitely without paying the artist any further royalties.

      If you don't like the copyright model, then do something about it. I suspect, however, that most people would rather put up with copyright than live in a society without it. Without copyright, every artist would simply resort to live performances, and we'd have a situation where hearing our favorite music was a matter of being in the right place at the right time and paying a hefty cover charge, *every time*.

      Yeah, and I can't make a living without constantnly turning up to work. What's your point?

  49. Code of conduct? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The interesting part here is that the RIANZ is talking about a "Code of Conduct" .. which isn't enshrined in law (as section 92A is), its just an agreement between the RIANZ and ISP's.

    Also of note is it's a draft and voluntary agreement at present as well ... how long till the RIANZ decide not to play ball?

    Also, the onus is being put on the ISP's to police copyright infringement, as stated here.

    So the ISP's have to do the RIANZ's dirty work, become judge, jury and disconnector ... oh, and the compliance costs will get passed on to the end user.

    Essentially we get to pay for the RIANZ's copyright policing strategy.

    Bollocks to that! Half your movies / music suck shit anyway.

     

  50. Once again, speak with your money... by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

    Anyone have a link for a list of New Zealand musicians?

    If such legislation passes, I will not be giving my money to any of these musicians, via any means that supports this sort of legislation.

    I will however do business with them DIRECTLY, through band-run websites and such. I just don't want my money going to anyone that supports the limiting of Net Neutrality.

    That being said, anyone have a link to a list of bands that direct market?

    I'd like to compare the two lists, and shop accordingly.

  51. I seriously doubt... by f33dback · · Score: 0

    I seriously doubt the ISP's themselves are even willing to go through with this. They will lose customers. NZ internet is shitty enough without this tacked on top. The idea of a "guilty" verdict and nothing else (ie: no option to even try to fight it) is not what our justice system here hangs on.

  52. if the frogs go independent by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    you think the maritimes, great plains and vancouver will stay together?

    break further up?

    or merge with the great southern evil?

    i always thought it would be neat to have one big country from guatemala to greenland

    put the capital in detroit, for example, to mollify canadians

    or, do you think the frogs are just always malcontents, and will never truly break up canada?

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  53. If I was a Kiwi, I would be writing my local MP by jonwil · · Score: 1

    I would be saying something somewhat like this (only more formal/professional sounding)
    I am writing to you to express my opposition to the new copyright bill. I do not support piracy or downloading illegal copies of content from the Internet. However, I do not believe that ISPs should be required to be copyright enforcement officers for the media companies, acting on vaguely worded notices of infringement. If the media companies believe that someone is infringing their copyright, they should be required to show proof of this infringement to both the ISP and the person accused of copyright violation.

    If the law was changed to require the media companies to show proof (including details of when the violation took place and what items were illegally copied) and to produce a statement (from e.g. a lawyer or copyright officer authorized to act on behalf of the copyright holder of the work in question) declaring under penalty of perjury that they believe that infringement has taken place, I would support this law.

    Of course, the real problem is that many p2p networks and programs like BitTorrent and emule and others makes it hard to gather proof of violation that a lawyer would be willing to agree to certify which is why the media companies are starting to abandon the practice of suing individuals for copyright infringement and instead looking to shut down pirates and pirate sites via ISPs.

  54. Flight of the Conchords by avoision · · Score: 1

    So does this guy representing the NZ RIAA do the work out of the NZ consulate in NYC, on the same floor as the "All Asian Massage?"

    Also, aside from Bret and Jemaine, there's just Steve who should be worried about copyright infringement, since there's only 3 musicians from NZ. Although, it seems like Jemaine and Bret could use all the free publicity they can get.

  55. Churchill on Democracy by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    Sometimes a democracy seems like a bad relationship that you just can't shake...

    To quote Churchill: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.". Until we come up with a better idea - or at least an idea which is different enough to count as new - we are pretty much stuck with democracy as the best thing going.

  56. Great Plan, but it doesn't go far enough by pugugly · · Score: 1

    As an attempt to assist New Zealand keep down it's crime rate, I believe we can propose a wonderful new law to assist them.

    We shall simply set up a system where reporting a license plate number that has been shown to be on the street during a burglary will result in the car being seized by the government.

    I don't for foresee any issue ever arising from such a plan.

    Pug

    --
    An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
  57. NZ trade deal with US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sometimes I wonder if the Free Trade Deal with the US has something to do with 92a; Or did we just want to prove that big things come from little places.

  58. You, Sir/Ma'am, are going to be quoted. by ShadowSystems · · Score: 1

    I'll print out your missive on small cards, laminate them, & give them to as many people as possible.
    This is Truth, and it should be spread.
    Thank you.

  59. I disagree about the corruption by jesterzog · · Score: 1

    Really, it's just ignorance and a group of politicians on both sides who run a small country with limited resources and didn't appreciate until now that anyone but the entertainment industry seriously cared about an issue that the media doesn't traditionally make a lot of noise about because copyright is usually very boring. They've been caught by surprise, which is why there's suddenly so much open controversy in the media.

    The New Zealand government has its problems as any government does, but it's naive to just assume that it's corrupt because it's a government and because the overtones on Slashdot tend to be that governments are corrupt. NZ politicians aren't perfect or inherently uncorrupt, and nor are public servents, but the country's much smaller, the election cycle is faster, there's only a single tier of representation, and the people in the government are much more directly accountable to the people who they govern. Mistakes get made but there are still checks and balances in place, of which the Official Information Act has had a huge impact, and for 3 years running Transparency International has rated NZ first equal in its corruption perceptions index. It's been in the top 3 for 9 of the 10 years that the index has been published (in 1998 NZ was ranked 4th).

    Section 92A is very badly worded and badly thought out, and you could quite easily claim that Labour made some seriously bad mistakes in drafting it as they have with several other recent things, but I think it's a real stretch to claim that this is blatantly corrupt.

  60. Re:bicrunga,whalerider,peterjackson,ernestrutherfo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and i think your keas are adorable

    You try parking your car near a bunch of those adorable little bastards :)

  61. Hey Morons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ever hear of "Custody"? ZOMG guilty until proven teh innocentz!!!!1

    Seriously, this whole "being treated like a criminal" thing is such bullshit. It's fucking unbelievable how much people bitch about it, but fail to notice that it occurs in every fucking aspect of their lives. Got locks on your door or car? What makes you think I'm going to rob you? Stop treating me like a criminal!

    Ever been shopping? Those detectors you're forced to walk through? Criminal!

    Does your country have a legal system? Do they enforce it with police? Jesus, it's like they're expecting people to break it, so they have to treat everyone like a criminal!
    Fuck, God forbid you ever go to an airport. Baggage checks, metal detectors, questioning, X-ray machines, strip searches... Oh noes, you're being treated like a criminal! Civil Liberties! Freedom of Speech! Right to Bear Automatic Weapons!

    And yet, the only time you ever hear about it is when it's DRM or copyright-related, which I'm sure is just a coincidence that those people also happen to be fucking pirate "No it's not stealing, it's infringement! Because that doesn't sound as bad! Stealing is bad, everyone infringes so it's ok! Phew, now I can sleep at night without thinking about what an asshole I am destroying the industry I like to stea err.. 'infringe' from" scum.

  62. Per person. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But you buy a CD for yourself and it costs $1 per person.

    NOTE: though more than one person can listen to a CD at a time (thereby reducing that figure), the same is true of the radio.

  63. The ISPs have no power, Some already disconnect by ykiwi · · Score: 1

    ISP XNet was already cutting people off last year in anticipation of this law. They sent one email to folk's ISP accounts (and who ever checks that) and then snip - the connection was down. The ISP's have to disconnect you as if they do not then they are opening themselves up to a lawsuit from RIAA/RIANZ et al. The copyright holders will demonstrate that they have provided "proof" (from US based companies trawling the p2p sites) and there has been no action, and they will probably win. So the easiest thing for the ISPs to do it just warn then disconnect. The proposed code of practice means the ISP has to give 3 warning over 3 months to their customers, and the customer can dispute them. But the ISPs will find this onerous, the chilling effect is frightening, and the kicker is that only the giants (RIAA etc.) are pre-authorized to send copyright notices to ISPs - the ISPs are not obliged to treat individual copyright holders with the same due process.

  64. The CFF had their response published today by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0