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Hitachi Fined $31 Million For LCD Price Fixing

MojoKid writes "The Japanese electronics manufacturer has just agreed to pay a staggering $31 million fine for its role in a conspiracy to fix prices in the sale of TFT-LCD panels sold to Dell, Inc. The United States Department of Justice made the proclamation, and details show that Hitachi has plead guilty to a one-count felony. The charge, which was filed in the U.S. District Court in San Francisco, blames Hitachi Displays Ltd., a subsidiary of Hitachi Ltd., with 'participating in a conspiracy to fix the prices of TFT-LCD sold to Dell for use in desktop monitors and notebook computers from April 1, 2001 through March 31, 2004.'"

135 comments

  1. Fixed which way? by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    High or low? I guess it would be "dumping" if low...

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  2. How Much? by Rik+Rohl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    did they make more than $31 mil profit by fixing the prices? If they did then they got away with it.

    1. Re:How Much? by justsomecomputerguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly! It's not like this is going to hurt their reputation in any significant way, so the fines HAVE to be higher than the illicit profits for them to have any real teeth.

    2. Re:How Much? by phillips321 · · Score: 1

      yep, they defo got away with it. if you had http://www.rtfa.co.uk/ you would have seen what other companies got hit with.

    3. Re:How Much? by sjames · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Since we can't put a corporation in jail, I suggest instead that they spend the same amount of time forced to operate as a 501c non-profit organization.

    4. Re:How Much? by hardburn · · Score: 4, Informative

      They've also been hit with criminal fines of over $585 million.

      --
      Not a typewriter
    5. Re:How Much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Since we can't put a corporation in jail, I suggest instead that they spend the same amount of time forced to operate as a 501c non-profit organization.

      I have a better idea, but one that requires a little setup. A corporation that hopes to get away with stuff like this should lose ALL patents and copyrights they currently own.

      However we'd have to make sure there's no way for every company to just set up dummy holding corps for their patents that they'd then "license" back to themselves.

      On the other hand, throwing stockholders in jail for what corporations are doing in -their-(the stockholders) best interest would probably be more entertaining. (And perhaps actually fix the problem.)

    6. Re:How Much? by freedom_india · · Score: 2

      Who said we can't? A corporation is a trust run by its board for its investors.
      Put the board in prison or its Chairman.
      That's what India and Russia do.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    7. Re:How Much? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Put the board in prison or its Chairman.
      That's what India and Russia do.

      Fucking shooting them doesn't even work, they've been doing it in China as long as they've had guns (they were just whacking people with sharp things before that) and corruption still runs at least as rampant there as anywhere else.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:How Much? by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      True to an extent.
      But once you publicly execute the guys, the message gets through, and the activity's reduced to a great extent or the guys go underground.
      If they underground, then they are illegals.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    9. Re:How Much? by enigma48 · · Score: 1

      This seemed a bit high to me, and I think the $585M is the total amount charged to all conspiring companies to date:

      http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/41689/118/

      $31M seems a little low but a) they plead guilty and b) they assisted in building the case against the other companies. Still, for a $70B (2006) market, even if they were a small player they seemed to have gotten off a bit easier than I'd expect.

    10. Re:How Much? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Why can't we put the compamy's decision makers (CEO, President, and board of directors) in prison?

    11. Re:How Much? by sjames · · Score: 1

      In some cases, we probably could, but in way too many cases, we'd end up punishing one individual person for the criminal acts of another or the trial process would become very difficult trying to determine who did or did not have personal knowledge of the crime (and if not, was it criminally negligent) and did they have sufficient authority to countermand the illegal orders.

    12. Re:How Much? by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      A corporation that hopes to get away with stuff like this should lose ALL patents and copyrights they currently own. However we'd have to make sure there's no way for every company to just set up dummy holding corps for their patents that they'd then "license" back to themselves.

      If you are going to write a law with enough teeth to remove their patents from their name, I suspect the law could also prohibit them from continuing to license any patents they currently license.

      This still doesn't prevent them from hiding their patents in another company and not licensing them, but that exposes risks in case the other company becomes controlled by someone not friendly.

    13. Re:How Much? by pwizard2 · · Score: 1

      I say slap a 1 TRILLION dollar fine on the CEO of the company and garnish his future wages. Whether he can actually pay that or not is beside the point, The objective is to completely bankrupt the guy and keep him on a sustenance income for the rest of his life. That way, the punishment only affects the guilty individual.

      If you just gave a huge fine to the company, the company may go out of business and people could lose their jobs, so you would only end up hurting innocent people.

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    14. Re:How Much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the message doesn't get through. While you're making a public showing of court and punishment, 1,000 others are ripping people off undistracted. It's like setting a fire at one end of town, and going to the other end and pillaging with no cops in sight.

      We have to find a way to remove them from the gene pool.

    15. Re:How Much? by lsatenstein · · Score: 0

      They got away with it.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  3. Pay $31M, Made $300M by cc_pirate · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Once again a corporation is allowed to steal and not pay back what it stole...

    While an individual would have to pay every DIME back and then pay a penalty on TOP of that...

    Pathetic

    --

    "There are laws that enslave men, and laws that set them free. " - Sean Connery as King Arthur

    1. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know how much they made? Do you know the point of price fixing?

    2. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by Idiomatick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To be fair companies are people. Punitive charges don't make as much sense. Charging the people who made the decisions punitive amounts does and I believe they have/will do so. Hurting a company of thousands of employees for the actions of 2~3 people is pretty pointless. The people that made the decision will be replaced so it doesn't matter.

    3. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by FlyingBishop · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Those jobs might not exist if the company hadn't been price fixing. Lack of significant consequences means a lack of significant laws.

    4. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by muszek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the worst that can happen to our company is giving back what we stole, we're gonna do the naughty thing.

    5. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      aren't

    6. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by Afforess · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The best part, the new LCD screens will cost more because they have to cover "court costs." It's a lose-lose situation for consumers.

      --
      If our elected representatives no longer represent us, do we still live in a Democracy?
    7. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a broken window fallacy to me. All those jobs might not have existed if it weren't for the criminal behavior, so I don't understand the idea of just letting it go.

    8. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by Kanasta · · Score: 1

      why to companies pay fines for felonies, while individuals have their lives ruined and serve jail time?
      surely a corporation has enough individuals to at least put a couple behind bars for good effort?

    9. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by earlymon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not so fast, compadre - according to TFA, some guys from Chunghwa were sentenced to jail time and indictments have been handed down to LG execs.

      Lousy summary - Hitachi didn't price fix by themselves, they had (above named) partners.

      It is beginning to look like fines are only part of the picture here.

      --
      Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
    10. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically, yes, a company is an individual. It should be tried as such, and not a body of others, as you suggest. That's the reason it's a registered company, so the employees aren't liable.

    11. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1

      Chance for monopoly means investors are willing to invest more of their money-->more R&D.

    12. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by Idiomatick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, pay back the full amount taken. But punitive fees for people can be much more than the cost of damage (in mp3s case many 1000x). I don't think wipeing a company of thousands of employees off the face of the earth is a good idea when the act was perpetrated by a select few. And as the article states the people directly involved are getting hefty fines AND prison time. So lesson learned without having to devalue the company.

    13. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by the_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Corporation - n. - An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit, without individual responsibility.

      --
      grey wolf
      LET FORTRAN DIE!
    14. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by mjwx · · Score: 1

      To be fair companies are people. Punitive charges don't make as much sense. Charging the people who made the decisions punitive amounts does and I believe they have/will do so. Hurting a company of thousands of employees for the actions of 2~3 people is pretty pointless. The people that made the decision will be replaced so it doesn't matter.

      So I can steal $20,000 using my corporation and only have to pay back $5,000.

      It works, Madoff is currently under house arrest...

      In his 7 million dollar apartment, which he gets to keep, having everything delivered to him.

      Once one of my bogan friends asked me, "If youre (me) so smart how do you rob a bank and get away with it.", my response was "If you're not smart enough to commit white collar crime you'll never get away with it." It scares me how right I was.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    15. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      they didn't steal anything. They just structured "impressions" so Dell paid them more money than the market would have decided on.

      Personally, I'm having a problem with all these foreign companies being sued for "collusion" years after the fact. Prices are consistently dropping, in fact they are dropping in many cases dangerously fast to the economy. The big problem in the electronics industry is that there is little adjusting to market demand after production is started. Companies pay their billions up front to make RAM chips or LCDs and they have to make that one model, for 6 months straight to hit their margins. When somebody decides they want to sell 17" in stead of 15", or Apple buys up pre-sales of chips, that causes one item to fall to "fire sale" levels and another to spike.

      Companies like Dell and Apple pre-pay for the actual manufacturing run, not for the spot-prices. Some days they get a good deal, others they get stuck holding the bag. I think that's why OEM components are marked up so much because the OEM promised the sale price 3 months ago, not the "fire sale" price retail is charging right now. Knowing a little bit how the purchasing for these things work, it feels like the OEMs are pointing to the "fire sale" price of tech after 6 months and claiming they should have got that price up front and were "mislead". OEMs are not like Walmart, the only leverage they have on the market is to promise to buy up-front.

      You and I typically buy on the "spot market" we buy ram/hard drives/CPUs that are left-overs from the OEM runs. That's why new ram is very expensive, then as the company fills orders but has a week left to run they "run out" the schedule until the time to build new parts, then the cycle repeats. If the cycle is off a week or two then prices go all over. If the fabs run an extra two weeks of parts, first the bills were paid by the OEM contracts say at $150 per panel, but if they run out the schedule the street value of the panel made the last week may only be $100 because they flooded the market, OEMs didn't take their orders, or the next model isn't ready yet.. the fab don't stop. It feels like the OEMs are saying that they were "overcharged" at $150 and that the fabs "knew" 6 months ahead the part would be worth much less when they were done with the run. That's not how electronic fabs work and with the increase in cases I don't think US courts "get" that fact. I also think they're favoring the "home team" and not the contracts.

    16. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      they didn't steal anything

      Yes they did. From us. When they forced Dell to pay more for the LCD, Dell dutifully passed the increase onto us. Which means we wuz robbed.
      In the wild west, this would have been solved with a Colt .48 Magnum...
       

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    17. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by maxume · · Score: 1

      You'd shoot a man for selling you a steak at a price you were willing to pay?

      Wow.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    18. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      No.
      I would shoot man who wuz charging me a much higher price because than i was willing to pay.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    19. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by maxume · · Score: 1

      That's gibberish.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    20. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The best part, the new LCD screens will cost more because they have to cover "court costs." It's a lose-lose situation for consumers.

      Unless that makes a competitor's product cost less than the Hitachi LCD...

    21. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's the funny part. You think they are obligated to somehow give back this money to the customers they took it from. Not. They are going to PASS THIS ON AS COST to their customers and thus make you pay for it TWICE. Once when they overcharged people for their products, and again when they have to pay the fine for having done so. Funny how corporations work, isn't it.

    22. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by WNight · · Score: 1

      It's not like the company and its valuable assets are burned out of spite. They'd be auctioned off to someone else - likely many employees could go day-to-day and barely notice this happen.

    23. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      What's gibberish is that people are willing to accept price gouging and illegal fee add-ons without the slightest protest.
      Some people accept corporate overlordship easily.
      I don't.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    24. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by maxume · · Score: 1

      Oh, I don't accept it, but I wouldn't shoot someone over it. And really, if you look at the definition of gibberish, it is pretty clear that it applies to muddled communication, not muddled thinking.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    25. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by Swordwright · · Score: 1

      Arguing that the company is composed of people is besides the point, as is the obvious fact that those responsible will be replaced. Punitive damages are designed to discourage similar behavior by others in the future, whether firms or individuals. Companies that do not have strict standards of conduct and means of enforcement in place to restrain bonus-happy minions can damn well pay up. Employees will suffer collateral damage in the very short term, but in terms of the damage to society, allowing companies or individuals to get off lightly on corporate crime acts far outweighs damage to employed individuals.

    26. Re:Pay $31M, Made $300M by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      How about auto makers and their precious "model years". They always seem to get earlier and earlier and they all seem to be announced every auto show when they all get together. Obviously, they are seeking to devalue automobiles every July 1 when they announce new models, right.

      In fact this is just the logic people tried to use on the Apple iPhone being a "monopoly" but because they're a US company the US courts didn't fall for it. These companies are semi-state backed... so adjusting their schedules to keep them in business is more important the finer points of international law. Turning this around, will the US back up the EU when they call for Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer to sit in jail for their illegal monopoly actions in Europe? There is much more damning evidence against Microsoft that these guys but the US courts haven't held them (or Micron, Rambus, IBM, etc, etc) to the same standards as the Asian electronic firms.

  4. Agreed by LingNoi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Japanese electronics manufacturer has just agreed to pay....

    How come when companies break the law they get to "agree" on the punishment?

    1. Re:Agreed by jcnnghm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because the only other sensible thing to write is, "plans to file an appeal?"

      --
      You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:Agreed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Never heard of plea bargains, huh?

    3. Re:Agreed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Japanese electronics manufacturer has just agreed to pay....

      How come when companies break the law they get to "agree" on the punishment?

      The same way government appointees, upon "discovering" they haven't paid taxes in years, get to pay the back taxes and keep their job.

    4. Re:Agreed by ChrisA90278 · · Score: 1

      How come when companies break the law they get to "agree" on the punishment?

      This is like asking "How come cows can fly?" They can't so the question is meaningless. In your case companies do not do anything, people within those companies do things. Because there are many people within a company many things can be done at the same time. Some times even at cross purposes.

      In this case one person did the price fixing. Then later another person agreed to pay the fine. Almost certainly this was not the same person.

    5. Re:Agreed by hardwarefreak · · Score: 1

      The Japanese electronics manufacturer has just agreed to pay....

      How come when companies break the law they get to "agree" on the punishment?

      It's called a "negotiated settlement". This happens more often than not in corporate cases. The company says to the DOJ "we did wrong, we'll agree to X as a remedy". The DOJ counters with another/different/degree remedy, then they haggle until they reach an agreement on a remedy acceptable to both sides. The DOJ says to the judge in the case "this agreement is acceptable to us and serves the interests of the people". Everyone, including the judge, then signs on the dotted line and the case is over. No trial, no jury, no verdict, no sentencing.

      There are many reasons why this happens. Probably the single biggest reason is that trials for these types of cases take f-o-r-e-v-e-r and cost both sides tremendous resources that are better utilized elsewhere. The DOJ has a finite number of lawyers and staff, and it serves them much better to settle corporate cases like this than take them to trial. They just don't have the resources to try every one of these cases. At least, this is my understanding of the situation.

      One advantage to the companies is lower negative press exposure. Trials generate lots of bad press, settlements a single headline or two in a single week. Three weeks from now most will have forgotten this Hitachi thing. If there was a trial over this, the mud on Hitachi would stick in people's minds much much longer, ala Microsoft.

  5. Dell sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Company treats employees like trash. FvC| Mr. Michael Dell in the a$$.

  6. Only 31M? by Buelldozer · · Score: 1

    That's hardly pocket change to a corporation like Hitachi.

    1. Re:Only 31M? by SupremoMan · · Score: 1

      Yeah but I doubt they have to pay it all at once. They probably only have to pay interest on the 31 million till they go out of business.

    2. Re:Only 31M? by hardwarefreak · · Score: 1

      That's hardly pocket change to a corporation like Hitachi.

      I'm not sure what you mean by "hardly pocket change". That phrasing and choice of words sounds like you think Hitachi will bleed over $31M. $31M *IS* pocket change, chump change, insignificant, to Hitachi. They're a multi $billion worldwide conglomerate. They can raid the petty cash shoebox to the pay this fine. Now, the panel division may be setup as a separate LLC. I don't know. If it is, then the LLC would have to pay the fine, not the parent Hitachi. $31M would probably be more than petty cash to the LLC panel subsidiary, however I doubt it will have a substantial material impact on their yearly return.

    3. Re:Only 31M? by Buelldozer · · Score: 1

      I agree, upon review my comment could be taken either way. Let me clarify. 31 Million is too little. They should have been fined MUCH more than that.

  7. Not Smart by primefalcon · · Score: 0, Interesting

    From that report the price fixing was from 2001 to 2004, while I agree something needed doing... Hitting a company with a 31M file in these times could easily send the company bankrupt, when so many companies are filing bankruptcy and causing more and more people to lose their jobs... was this really a smart decision to do this at this point in time?

    1. Re:Not Smart by longacre · · Score: 1

      They have about $6 billion in cash on hand. I think they'll be alright.

    2. Re:Not Smart by eln · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're right. When the economy is bad, we should let corporations get away with breaking any laws or regulations they want to in order to maintain a healthy profit, thereby maintaining jobs. This is especially important when the economy is bad in large part because we let corporations get away with breaking any laws or regulations they wanted to in order to maintain a healthy profit.

    3. Re:Not Smart by primefalcon · · Score: 0

      I'm not saying no action should of been taken, what I'm saying is I'm not sure this is the right action, I'm sure there are other ways this could of been handled. A fine is a quick easy decision, no thought required...

    4. Re:Not Smart by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The point of criminal punishment isn't just to get the criminal to stop doing the illegal deed, it's also a message to others to not do the illegal deed.

      And if they go bankrupt, they go bankrupt. That would be even better - another company will come along and take their place, and they would think twice about price fixing. Let them get away with it and you might as well just legalize price fixing.

    5. Re:Not Smart by Numbstruck · · Score: 1

      And if that quick and easy fine were to, say, threaten the corporation's livelihood, perhaps a little more thought might be put into the way the business is run?

  8. Staggering by jason8 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    $25 billion in profits last year. Yep, that $31 million fine is staggering.

    1. Re:Staggering by The+Grim+Reefer2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      $25 billion in profits last year. Yep, that $31 million fine is staggering.

      Citation please? According to http://investing.businessweek.com/businessweek/research/stocks/earnings/earnings.asp?symbol=6581.T

      Hitachi's revenue for 2008 was 175B yen or $1.8B. Which is not even the net profit, it's the all monies coming in before expenses. This is no where near $25B in profit.

      In fact they made a net profit of 1.5B yen or $129 Million for 2007. $31 million is almost a quarter of their profits for 2007. For 2008(3-08 to 3-09) they are posting a $7.8B loss.

      http://retrenchment-blog.breaking.sg/2009/01/hitachi-cuts-7000-jobs-worldwide/

    2. Re:Staggering by longacre · · Score: 1

      Really? Their biggest annual profit in the past 10 years was $841 million. In 2008 they posted a loss of $581 million.

    3. Re:Staggering by jason8 · · Score: 1

      Oops, maybe you're right, I got my info here, specifically the "Gross Profit (ttm): 24.74B". I should have thought about that a minute, USD 25B in profit sounds way too big. My bad.

    4. Re:Staggering by forgottenusername · · Score: 1

      This is slashdot, citations are only required for the important stuff like obscure vim macro commands to prove its superiority over emacs.

      As Colbert would say, a tip of my hat for bringing some real figures into the discussion ;p

      The problem with punishing a company as others have stated is it affects the average worker much more negatively than some exec who just lists it as a "failed strategy" (read: got caught) if they're questioned about it.

      Sucks how most financial systems end up rewarding the wrong people off the sweat of the honest, hardworking folk, and the elite never have any comebacks. Kinda makes me wish I believed in some metaphysical retribution system, be it Judgement day or karma ;)

    5. Re:Staggering by shentino · · Score: 1

      When you squeeze the nobility, it's the peasants who feel the pinch.

    6. Re:Staggering by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      You are correct, sort of.

      25 billion likely was total revenue which doesn't include operating expenses.

      From what I briefly googled it was more like 31 billion in 2008 (Feb 5th), and I thought it was about 110 million actual profit.

      While 31 million would be about 1/4 of their profits for that year what the point is:

      A) 80 million dollars is still a shit ton of money profit anyway, so keep doing it.

      and

      B) Do you think the 31 million was directed for one particular year. Put another way, do you think they priced fixed LCD's for one fiscal year?

      Answer: So more likely a 4 year profit margin of about 500 million, and they get a 31 million dollar fine for price fixing.

      If I was CEO I would give all my price fixing accountant overlords huge bonuses.

      In short:

      1) Fix prices
      2) Get fine
      3) PROFIT!

  9. Restitution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do we get anything for purchasing a dell monitor during that time? I could use some cash

    1. Re:Restitution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Michael Dell needs a yacht.

    2. Re:Restitution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, your getting a schooner!

    3. Re:Restitution? by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Schooner? I'd rather a pint!

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  10. So who's going to gaol?? by femto · · Score: 3, Interesting

    See, that's where it's so unfair to treat companies as people. They get the benefits, but not the downsides. If *I* committed a felony I would go to gaol. A company gets a smack on the wrist and it is business as usual.

    What we need is a gaol for companies. If a person has to lose "X" years of their life by being locked up, why not a company? Being in "gaol" might mean that the company is nationalised for the length of the sentence and all profits go to the government.

    1. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But in actuality 99% of the employees of Hitachi had no knowledge of the wrongdoing. These sorts of deals are made by a select few executives. While I agree that the executives who made the decisions should go to jail, I don't agree that everyone in the company should be punished.

    2. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by a09bdb811a · · Score: 1

      Gaol?

      Woah. Is this 1709 or 2009?

    3. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Theoretically, any officer of the company who was complicit in the criminal behavior can be held criminally liable as an individual. For some reason, this doesn't always happen. What the hell does it mean to "convict" a company, anyway?

    4. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by m.ducharme · · Score: 1

      Theoretically, any officer of the company who was complicit in the criminal behavior can be held criminally liable as an individual. For some reason, this doesn't always happen. What the hell does it mean to "convict" a company, anyway?

      Scooter Libby would like to have a word with you.

      --
      Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
    5. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by enoz · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just because your colony resorted to spelling everything phonetically...

    6. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by eln · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd love to see a way to really punish corporations. Jailing their chief officers is a good start, but that usually only happens in the most egregious cases involving something that brings the company itself down. However, your idea to temporarily nationalize the company in order to punish it, while definitely giving the government incentive to enforce the laws, may be going a bit too far.

      Considering the country is currently many trillions of dollars in debt, and adding almost 2 trillion more to that debt this year alone, the temptation to use nationalization as the default punishment for a wide variety of infractions may prove too great for the government to resist. Before you know it, the money-hungry government will have "temporarily" nationalized hundreds of corporations in order to siphon the profits and balance its own books.

      The best option to control corporate malfeasance, in my opinion, is to make it as painful as possible to the people in the position to make decisions. The chief executives get rewarded with millions of dollars for doing a good job, and if they screw up badly enough they get...rewarded with tens of millions of dollars in severance. If screwing up carried an actual penalty for them, maybe at least some of them would think a little harder before going down that path.

    7. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by Savior_on_a_Stick · · Score: 1

      Yeah - well you have the Welsh

    8. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The company should be punished, then the officers of the company should be punished for acting against the interests of the company by bringing it into disrepute. Docking company profits won't hurt employees, only executives and shareholders, and they are the ones that benefited from the criminality.

    9. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... the temptation to use nationalization as the default punishment for a wide variety of infractions may prove too great for the government to resist.

      Thats exactly what the government does to people (think revenue raising traffic fines). If it's good enough for people, its good enough for companies. Maybe there would then be a little more backlash against penalties primarily being used as a revenue source?

    10. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by fractoid · · Score: 3, Funny

      He shoost, he scroes! GAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLL!!!

      Using all caps is what you're *meant* to do when someone scores a gaol, silly flitter!

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    11. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by enoz · · Score: 1

      The New South Welshmen?

    12. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      It does happen, just not nearly as often as you'd expect from the way the law is written.

    13. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      Practically also its true.
      Anyone committing a crime is a criminal.
      No one can assault his in-laws and then claim his corporate policy made him do it.
      Acting on behalf of someone is not a license to commit crimes and escape responsibility.
      Contract Law states that when an Agent acts ultra-vires of his Licensor, then the Agent is individually responsible for such acts.
      Jail the criminal, and convict him.
      Period.
      Unfortunately none of our lawmakers would allow such a thing to happen: especially Republicans like Orrin Hatch and Ted Tube Stevens (he's out).
      Because our lawmakers get "benefits" from corporate lobbyists and go to work there after their terms...
      Symbiotic relationship.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    14. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by m.ducharme · · Score: 1

      I'll concede that it's rare, but not so rare as to still be theoretical. And there's been a growing trend in sending top people to jail just lately, even before the financial crisis came down. I know Canada had a case just last year, in Quebec (appealed to the Supreme Court), where an executive (or maybe a director) was convicted over a workplace safety incident (but alas I don't remember the name of the case). It was, I believe, a first in Canada, but there are more in the courts, and I think there've been some convictions since that haven't been appealed.

      We're going to see a lot more of these in the next few years.

      --
      Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
    15. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      If a person has to lose "X" years of their life by being locked up, why not a company? Being in "gaol" might mean that the company is nationalised for the length of the sentence and all profits go to the government.

      Why the government? Why not the victims? Take the peanut butter company, it should get the death penalty, with its stockholders (actually it's one sociopathic rich ass bastard) losing all equity and all shares divided between the sick, and the dead's families.

      In this case, Dell (and Hitachi's other customers) should get the profits for the time Hitachi is "in prison".

    16. Re:So who's going to gaol?? by LionMage · · Score: 1

      Funny, I see the "jail" spelling on the BBC far more commonly than the "gaol" spelling. I take that as an indication that "jail" is now the preferred spelling in the UK as well. I've also noticed that "connexion" is dying out in favor of "connection." That said, I have a perverse romantic attachment to "connexion" and "gaol" as cool archaic spellings; they're excellent to use in some contexts, mainly for effect.

  11. Courts in SF... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm starting to think its fishy how many cases go through there, and how much of it is either dubious in basis or result...

  12. Who gets the $31 million? by AlexCorn · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does the government keep the $31 million, or does it get distributed to those people who bought price-fixed displays? If the government keeps it, do the victims get a tax cut?

    I'd rather a profitable, productive company like Hitachi keep the money than the parasitic government.

    1. Re:Who gets the $31 million? by LoverOfJoy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't worry. The $31 million will just barely cover the costs of the lawyers. The government won't see a dime.

    2. Re:Who gets the $31 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      wank on, libertardian

    3. Re:Who gets the $31 million? by kklein · · Score: 1, Informative

      I'd rather a profitable, productive company like Hitachi keep the money than the parasitic government.

      Yes, but that's because you think that if we adopted your feudal economic system again, you'd be a lord, not a serf.

      That is to say, you are a moron.

    4. Re:Who gets the $31 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God, I wish I had mod points right now. Beautiful.

    5. Re:Who gets the $31 million? by fractoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In the words of the late Doctor Asimov: "What you're really saying is 'Up with Slavery for Other People!'"

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  13. Business as usual... by inject_hotmail.com · · Score: 1

    I don't really think that anything changes now that they were "caught". How many price-fixing slaps-on-the-wrists have we seen? Any company that does it just chalks up the fine to business costs, and continues.

    Do I think anything will change? Nope. Ask yourself why they don't get caught while doing it. After the fact, it doesn't matter anymore.

    Oh, and double bonus points to the article writer for using the word "plead", and not "pleaded".

    1. Re:Business as usual... by clampolo · · Score: 1

      True. Every couple of years there is another DRAM pricing conviction. This is all a waste of time until they hand out some severe penalties.

  14. Which Hitachi? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Informative

    Remember, this Hitachi is only a small subsidiary of the bigger Hitachi, and mentioned in TFA.

  15. Who gets this $$? by woboyle · · Score: 1

    I purchased multiple Dell systems and monitors during that period. Do I get anything back for the inflated prices I had to pay? Right... That and $3.50 USD (more or less) will buy me a cup of almost-decent coffee.

    --
    Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
    1. Re:Who gets this $$? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Those class-action lawsuits are totally bogus from the consumer's POV. Based on the notices I've received in the past, the outcome always seems to be

      1. to participate, you must log onto some web site, enter your address and two phone #'s, date of birth, SSN, Visa account #, and three personal references; they'll send you a check for $14.50 in the mail. If the check doesn't arrive in six weeks, send a request by certified mail.
      2. Court-approved plaintiff attorneys Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe LLP will receive 40 pct of the settlement as their court-awarded fees, which comes out to $55 million.

      I'm happier just to have the company pay the fine to the government. This way, at least the lawyers won't get quite so obscenely rich in the process, although I'm sure some have already done handsome business in this case.

      Seriously, I'd like to see some law passed regarding class action suits where the per-consumer reward is under $30. Give the money to the government instead, and cap the attorney fees at 15 pct.

  16. Rights by darkpixel2k · · Score: 4, Funny

    details show that Hitachi has plead guilty to a one-count felony.

    Damn. Poor Hitachi. They just lost their right to vote and carry a gun.

    --
    There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    1. Re:Rights by cortesoft · · Score: 1

      Totally off topic and not really that important but.... only 14 states ban convicted felons from ever voting again. Vermont and Maine even allow current prisoners to vote.

      Just thought you might like to know, not all states ban felons from voting for life.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_States#Felons

    2. Re:Rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The "right to vote" part could easily be implemented by replacing it by "right to lobby and make donations". Should be quite effective, even if you limited it to 10 years or so.

  17. Why fine the company? by MikeB0Lton · · Score: 1

    What about the employees that committed unethical and illegal behaviors in doing this? I don't get why people are so shielded when working under a corporation.

  18. No More Slashdotting for Med by LennyP · · Score: 0

    Guess from what I've been reading on slashdot -- and not from we readers -- I'm not going to be slashdotting anymore. To stick the word "staggering" in the headline belies a belief in truth and becomes propaganda. Too bad, you used to be good slashdot, but you became corporate media.

  19. Umm... "redundant" first post? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Q: How can a "first post" be "redundant"? It's not much, but it certainly isn't the usual "first post" fare, right?
    A: Moderators mod down posters they don't like.

    AC just guessing here.

    1. Re:Umm... "redundant" first post? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Redundancy can occur inter-discussion as well as intra-discussion. But readers here of any modest length of time know not to try too hard to rationalize Slashdot moderation. Yes there's probably a few actual cases of stalking and harassment going on at any given time, but probably accounts for less than 1% of the moderations. It's probably about 20% sensible mods, a few percent of bizarre ones by people on drugs, and the remainder being your guess if you 's/posters/posts/'. Meaning the moderation system here is essentially useless. It's only good for filtering out non-groupthink, if that's your cup of tea.

    2. Re:Umm... "redundant" first post? by impaledsunset · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I'm not entirely sure about the meaning of "redundant" in English, but in my native language the word for redundant also means "unnecessary". While I wouldn't agree with such moderation of the grandparent post, but wouldn't an unnecessary and obvious post deserve a "redundant" moderation? If the information in the post is obvious to everyone, isn't it already redundant?

    3. Re:Umm... "redundant" first post? by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I asked the same question once (and was modded "offtopic", as you and I both should be here) and got some good answers.

      It might be something that you see in almost every thread - like "frosty piss" (which would make it both redundant and offtopic).

      It might be that the poster said the same thing that someone else said later, but didn't say it as well. The whole point of moderation is to make good comments stand out and bad comments to not stand out. Everyone is downmodded some times; if your karma is shit you've probably either got little to say, or say it badly. I get downmodded all the time, but my karma remains excellent despite that.

      It might be something that was said in a related thread (or a dupe). For example, this one is about Hitachi, Dell, and price fixing. There may have been an earlier story about another supplier price fixing, or Dell using Sony's exploding rootkitted batteries (there is another thread about batteries), etc.

      Of course, there are always those dipshits that think "troll" means "I disagree". Since they castrated metamoderation there's not a lot we can do about those people any more.

  20. Short list by sjames · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Does anyone know where I can find the short list of corporations that are not convicted felons?

    It's odd the way that people who would never in a million years do business with an individual with a felony record (would you buy a house from someone convicted of fraud?) keep on sending their cash to three time loser corporations.

    1. Re:Short list by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      Exactly.
      Banks maintain a record of convicted and bankrupt individuals and do not hire them.
      Hell, if someone were to float a company and he's convicted of fraud or a felony, and he goes to bank to secure a loan for his company, he's refused!
      Even though legally both of them are separate individuals!
      Banks do maintain a central registry of such convicted felons.
      Why can't we, citizens, maintain an open source registry of convicted corporations so that we actively prevent them from setting up shop in our town or village?

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    2. Re:Short list by khallow · · Score: 1

      Well there's Hitachi for starters. Getting a minor fine for market fixing really doesn't say much about the company. Just because companies pick up fines from governments doesn't mean that they've done anything wrong. To me, most such market morality is more a matter of money. If an activity costs someone money, then they have a tendency to view it as immoral. Personally, I think the cost of market cartels, non-government monopolies, and other such things is less than the cost of government interference.

    3. Re:Short list by sjames · · Score: 1

      You're entitled to your opinion, but one company practicing market fixing does more economic damage to society that a million acts of shoplifting. Perhaps when high school kids get caught shoplifting, we should let them keep the item, charge them 10% of it's cost and wag our fingers at them? I'm sure the threat of an instant 90% discount and all that finger wagging (in a private office, not in public of course) will be a powerful deterrent to further crime.

    4. Re:Short list by khallow · · Score: 1

      You're entitled to your opinion, but one company practicing market fixing does more economic damage to society that a million acts of shoplifting.

      How do you know? Shoplifters just take while market fixing is higher prices on something that someone wants and is willing to pay that extra bit for.

      As I see it, market fixing signals to the rest of the economy that either the producers in question deserve more money than they were getting or that there's opportunity for new manufacturers. A market with few enough competitors to allow market fixing simply isn't very healthy.

    5. Re:Short list by sjames · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Market fixing maximizes the effects of the market's ill health and conspires to make it even less healthy (since the conspirators effectively become a single entity as far as market competition is concerned). An act of shoplifting causes a few hundred dollars worth of economic damage at most. An act of market fixing runs into the millions. Keep in mind that price fixing only happens in markets where the barriers to entry are high. Meanwhile, the price fixing creates malinvestment by convincing another player to enter the market only to have the competitors' prices "magically" fall as soon as they do (and well before they have a chance to recoup their initial investment). That is, the price fixing creates an illusion of inelasticity in selling price that simply does not actually exist.

      Consider, as an outsider, I observer that the price of widgets seems stuck at around 150. I know I can produce them at a cost that allows me to sell for 110. I may conclude that apparently the other manufacturers can't figure out how to make them that cheaply, and go into business. Next day, magically the going rate for widgets is 109. That can only happen because the other manufacturers actually had a slightly lower production cost than me (perhaps because of volume) or because they have already recouped their initial investment. Either way, the price fixing created the illusion that neither was true and convinced me I could profitably enter the market. However, now that the illusion is broken, I'm left with no way to recoup my investment in a reasonable time. Meanwhile, I *could* have invested in something else with slightly lower expectations where the economy (and I) would have benefited more.

    6. Re:Short list by khallow · · Score: 1

      Consider, as an outsider, I observer that the price of widgets seems stuck at around 150. I know I can produce them at a cost that allows me to sell for 110. I may conclude that apparently the other manufacturers can't figure out how to make them that cheaply, and go into business. Next day, magically the going rate for widgets is 109. That can only happen because the other manufacturers actually had a slightly lower production cost than me (perhaps because of volume) or because they have already recouped their initial investment. Either way, the price fixing created the illusion that neither was true and convinced me I could profitably enter the market. However, now that the illusion is broken, I'm left with no way to recoup my investment in a reasonable time. Meanwhile, I *could* have invested in something else with slightly lower expectations where the economy (and I) would have benefited more.

      If you had done your homework, you'd already have a good idea how much it costs other manufacturers and would be prepared to tough out the dumping tactic.

    7. Re:Short list by sjames · · Score: 1

      So you're saying price fixing is OK because industrial espionage is also OK? The consumer paying higher prices than would be necessary in a properly competitive market is OK?

      I say espionage since in the real world, you can only gather so much information ethically and must infer the rest from such knowable figures as the price and approximate volume. Those inferences will be thrown off if price fixing is in play. To find out about price fixing, espionage or a criminal investigation will be required.

      It sounds like you're trying to making a broken economic system "work" by re-defining it's results to be good rather than altering the system until the results actually are good.

      On a side note, dumping is defined to be selling at below the cost of production for the purpose of driving competition out of the market. Dumping is also illegal.

      In the scenario I presented there is no actual dumping, but the price fixing at the start makes the correction at the end have the same effect as dumping.

    8. Re:Short list by khallow · · Score: 1

      So you're saying price fixing is OK because industrial espionage is also OK? The consumer paying higher prices than would be necessary in a properly competitive market is OK?

      Yes, I am saying that.

      I say espionage since in the real world, you can only gather so much information ethically and must infer the rest from such knowable figures as the price and approximate volume. Those inferences will be thrown off if price fixing is in play. To find out about price fixing, espionage or a criminal investigation will be required.

      My view is that price fixing isn't that hard to figure out. The pricing behavior of the cartel members will be very similar. And in a world where price fixing isn't illegal, they probably wouldn't even bother to be secretive about it.

      It sounds like you're trying to making a broken economic system "work" by re-defining it's results to be good rather than altering the system until the results actually are good.

      This is an often successful way to deal with problems. Sometimes the problem isn't really a problem. Ignoring it is in those cases the better solution. IMHO, that's the case with price fixing.

      In the scenario I presented there is no actual dumping, but the price fixing at the start makes the correction at the end have the same effect as dumping.

      Eh, dumping, undercutting, whatever. It still remains that they're making $41 less per unit. And dropping the price of a good by 30% can only go on so long.

    9. Re:Short list by sjames · · Score: 1

      Eh, dumping, undercutting, whatever. It still remains that they're making $41 less per unit. And dropping the price of a good by 30% can only go on so long.

      Actually, if the proce would have been 30% less without the collusion, then it CAN go on forever.

      As for the rest, we'll have to agree to disagree. I strongly suspect that simply allowing such things will not only damage the economy but would damage the cohesiveness of society in general.

  21. $31m Is Small, Not "Staggering" by meehawl · · Score: 4, Informative

    In 2005, Samsung paid $300m for price fixing. Hynix paid $185m. Infineon paid $160m, and four of its execs went to prison and paid $250,000 each.

    In 2008, LG paid $400m in fines for price fixing. Sharp paid $120m. Chunghwa paid $65m.

    So... $35m. In this context, not very "staggering".

    --

    Da Blog
    1. Re:$31m Is Small, Not "Staggering" by jafac · · Score: 1

      So - when do I get a refund for the net effects on prices in the marketplace from their price-fixing?

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  22. And after class action.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...attorney's fees, your schooner becomes a rubber ducky for your bath tub..

  23. Siemens Paid $1.6 BILLION (Dr Evil Voice) by meehawl · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd just like to add that to settle global bribery and corruption charges, Siemens recently agreed to pay $1.6 billion in fines - ~$900m to the US, and the rest to the EU. Now that's what I call "staggering".

    --

    Da Blog
  24. Just goes to show by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Just goes to show by Waccoon · · Score: 1

      I say this every time I consider replacing my CRT with an LCD. I do sensitive color work, and I have still yet to see an expensive LCD that beats my 7-year-old tube.

      Damn the flood of cheap, crappy TN-based LCDs crowding the market. I don't care about LCD price fixing -- I care about not being able to find a large, new CRT anywhere. Almost all CRTs you try to buy online are refurbished rather than NOS. The sellers often forget to write that in the product description.

  25. Why not the corporate death penalty? by jhylkema · · Score: 1

    When people kill other people, we shoot, gas, behead, poison or fry them. When corporations do it, why do they always get by with "mistakes were made"? Why can't their charters be revoked and all of their assets and IP sold, for starters?

    1. Re:Why not the corporate death penalty? by Malkin · · Score: 1

      Because there wouldn't be any large corporations left?

  26. Some other good reforms? by jhylkema · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Our legal system needs to recognize that legal persons have a significant advantage over legal persons in court. To level that playing field:

    -- Make the 14th Amendment's guarantee of equal protection under the law inapplicable to corporations.

    -- After that, you raise the burden of proof, on both liability and damages, when corporations sue individuals. In other words, make the RIAA prove up every last penny of its damages when it sues file sharers. By that I mean, make them produce evidence that every song downloaded equals a lost sale. Hint: There isn't any.

    -- By contrast, when individuals sue corporations, you reduce the burden of proof. Upon a finding of liability, damages are presumed.

    -- Extend the right to counsel to individuals being sued by corporations.

    On another note, the government can use its buying power to significantly (and positively) influence corporate behaviour. In other words:

    -- Want to do business with the government? Great. You agree to a long list of "good corporate citizen business practises" (easy union recognition, no outsourcing, a living wage, caps on executive pay and perks, firings only for just cause, a fully funded pension plan, etc.) and we'll THINK about doing business with you.

  27. Shit by jhylkema · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Our legal system needs to recognize that legal persons have a significant advantage over legal persons in court.

    Legal persons have a significant advantage over natural persons in court.

    'Course, /. could add post revision functionality like every other web board has had for nearly a decade . . .

  28. where's my refund? by pr100 · · Score: 1

    So does this mean that anyone who bought a Dell with one of these screens during that period paid more than they should have done? If so then presumably they'd have a legitimate claim against Dell and/or Hitachi?

    1. Re:where's my refund? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I only paid $300 for my 20" widescreen back then so it was a good deal to begin with.

  29. What Have The Romans Ever Done For Us? by meehawl · · Score: 1

    I'd rather a profitable, productive company like Hitachi keep the money than the parasitic government.

    Yes, what has "The Government" ever done for us? Well, except for the Internet you're using to demand a return to feudalism and the rule of nobles and strongmen, basically nothing!

    --

    Da Blog
  30. Little fines don't stop price fixing! by zymano · · Score: 1

    Kick them out of selling in the USA for a couple of years.