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Suspect Freed After Exposing Cop's Facebook Status
longacre writes "A man on trial in New York for possession of a weapon has been acquitted after subpoenaing his arresting officer's Facebook and MySpace accounts. His defense: Officer Vaughan Ettienne's MySpace 'mood' was set to 'devious' on the day of the arrest, and one day a few weeks before the trial, his Facebook status read 'Vaughan is watching "Training Day" to brush up on proper police procedure.' From the article: '"You have your Internet persona, and you have what you actually do on the street," Officer Ettienne said on Tuesday. "What you say on the Internet is all bravado talk, like what you say in a locker room." Except that trash talk in locker rooms almost never winds up preserved on a digital server somewhere, available for subpoena.'"
That defense actually WORKED? Sorry, but that is nothing more than "locker room talk". If silly bits and pieces like that are valid in court, then the idiotic judge just opened a massive can of worms. Nice precedent, asshole. No more joking on the internet because someone could take it seriously!
I know! This really ticks me off! I totally want to grab a handgun and take out a large handful of innocent bystanders before turning the gun on myself. Or maybe I'll start a blog!
Due to the fact that it was made as a public announcement on a publicly viewable board, it looses the "locker room talk" argument. Officer Ettiene admitted to bias in his police work and judgement. Training Day is a prime example of extremely poor police work, judgement, and ethics; needless to say outright criminality. By not sending a message to this officer, we silently condone him. An officer that exhibits bias cannot be trusted to fairly and impartially enforce the law and has therefore abused the public trust put in him. Officer Ettiene showed incredibly poor judgement and will most likely loose his job for it.
No more joking on the internet because someone could take it seriously!
Show me where I can joke in front of a cop without taking the chance of him taking it seriously and taking action based on it.
And you know, I agree, it sucks that it's come down to this but everyone is so uptight anymore and the cops like to flex their muscles a little too much. This is the end result of a bunch of old high school jocks with a chip on their shoulder and the people who get sick of their 10th grade antics with a badge.
Sorry for any cops that read this and think they're above that kind of thing, you just might be, but too many of your brothers in blue are nothing less than what I've described above. Most of us know police only when they meet them in a bad situation and all too often the asshole cops are the ones to be the most vocal. We rarely see the cop that lets small infractions slide.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
The defendant had better hope never to see:
Officer Vaughan Ettienne's MySpace "mood" set to "vigilante"
GrpA
Enjoy science fiction? "Turing Evolved" - AI, Mecha, Androids and rail-gun battles. What more could you want?
Please, no! Just kill the people!
No existe.
I don't think GP meant that letting small infractions slide is what distinguishes nice cops from the assholes.
The point I believe he was making was that cops who enforce with overzealousness the black letter of the law to the point where adherence is impossible are being unfair. The choice is that the law has to either stay well clear of the actual boundaries and allow for leniency, or go right up to them and enforce them rigorously.
Take speed limits. Do we want cops armed with super accurate speed detectors (assume they have such devices) trailing a car for 100 miles while it traveled under the limit, only to pull it over for breaking the limit by 0.5mph for a few seconds as it went down a steep hill? Personally, that's a small infraction that I think society as a whole would be better off letting slide because it would engender resentment towards law enforcement and, also, remember that issuing fines and the admin overhead of enforcement is a net cost to society. Having thousands of such cops on the streets means police resources are no longer used to track down real crime.
The specific principles of the Rule of Law as conceived in a modern society must take into account the reasonableness of expecting compliance, and to what degree compliance is possible. To put it bluntly, sufficiently small infractions can, and should, be let slide.
I hate printers.
A couple days ago, there was an article in the local paper. Someone (college athlete) had been cited for DUI but the charges were dropped. Why? Well, the arresting officer's report claimed he was visibly drunk, couldn't stand, was falling over, etc. None of which was corroborated by his own video taping of the event.
The alleged drunk driver refused a breathalyzer test at the time, which some people consider an admission of guilt. Now, I don't know if he was drunk or not, but consider this: can a police officer who lies on his police report be trusted to accurately report the breathalyzer result? (Keep in mind there's no evidence, just a number he writes down.)
Tough titty. If you're a public official, you have to live up to a higher standard than everyone else - it's part of the deal. Even the appearance of unfairness or impropriety is unacceptable, insofar as it relates to your position.
To this end, I have compiled a list of analogous examples of facebook status lines, as depicted by their various professions:
- Catholic Priest: "Off to work for me...Long day ahead of corn-holing a bunch of kids."
- Astronaut: "Launch time is tomorrow morning. This time tomorrow, I should be safely in orbit, pulling my pud and spewing my wad into someone's EVA glove."
- Programmer for Microsoft: "Damn I got coder's block. Time to find something useful inside the linux kernel."
- Local baker: "I just fooled around for two hours with my raunchy girlfriend and haven't washed my hands. Gonna go bake some bread."
- Medical examiner: "I'm just so bloody horny lately and dammit the online dating just isn't working out for me."
- County Judge: "Feeling a bit woozy right now after sampling everything out of the medicine cabinet."
- Airline pilot: "Life sucks and I want to die."
- Cthulhu: "Sometimes i just want a hug."
I just wonder what his Fark or 4Chan handle is.
On 4chan, I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say it's Anonymous .
I was waiting patiently outside of a coffee shop with my puppy while my girlfriend was inside getting a couple White Mochas.
As I sat on the bench, two cops came and sat down right next to me. They were in the middle of a conversation, which I couldn't help but overhear.
Cop 1: "Why'd we arrest that guy again?"
Cop 2: "Man I don't even know!"
Cop 1: "Eh, whatever. He had it coming to him. They'll sort it out at the station."
If we, as a society give you a gun, a badge, and powers of arrest, I think we can fairly hold you to a reasonably high standard of behavior.
Police are there to enforce the law. Not interpret it.
This attitude is why I left civilian law enforcement. Policing is not law enforcement, too many people in policing these days think they are a soldier, the job is that of a community protector, not the kings solider to be used upon the subjects. I was taught Officer Discretion; not every drunk needs a dui, not every speeder needs a ticket, not every pot head needs to go to jail. You examine the circumstances and make a judgement call, this art is being replaced with mindless enforcement.
Most of the kids that start the job these days are more interested then finding criminal acts to enforce as they ignore protection of the community. A good example of this is traffic, although there are no quotas, it is a highly encouraged enforcement activity due to the enormous amount of dollars it brings home to the local government. Were I worked a dedicated traffic car brought in 4x its annual operation cost in fine revenue. That isn't policing, that's being an armed tax collector.
As far as the original story, no surprise, kids these days need a little humbling. There will be a pile of AC's who will endlessly post pointless defences of the police, most of them will be cops or have some kind of police affiliation, they will all be under 35, with no military service. They are trained this way, to feel that this is how it should be, its normal, challenging this assumption will result in them "teaching" you a lesson.
Its too bad they don't understand their oath, or likely even remember taking it, much less understand how to keep it.
Go to court a few times and you'll realize something interesting... for a lot of cases with the same charges, the officer's story is exactly the same, only with a few details changed to make it applicable to the particular defendant. Someone booked for DUI will always be slurring their speech, staggering, have bloodshot eyes, etc. Someone booked for resisting arrest will always have been waving his arms and cursing, etc. This isn't because all the offenses are the same. It's because the officer's testimony has no relation to the truth. He's simply telling the story that gets a conviction.
The term is "testilie".
Learn the difference between "lose" and "loose." One applies to you, the other applies to your mother :)
What you say in a public forum, ESPECIALLY as a public official in a critical position of trust, matters. Make a joke about crashing planes on the TSA website, see what happens. Make any kind of joke in any kind of public forum about possibly harming the president of the United States and the Secret Service will absolutely pay you a visit.
How would you feel to know your doctor cruelly jokes about involuntarily euthanizing people over 40? A kindergarten teacher making jokes about molesting the kids? A contractor who jokes about building houses to fall in the first earthquake? I'm a network engineer, and I can assure you I don't joke about crashing the 911 systems or bringing down the hospitals and airports I'm the lead engineer for.
I love Bill Hicks. I thank God for Penn Gillette. Richard Pryor is a certified genius. We will not see the like of Jonathan Swift again. But when my wife is in the middle of a c-section, I don't wanna hear the anesthesiologist go "Hey Dude, do you want a hit of this too?" It would be hilarious, and I would have to kill him.
A police officer who jokes about beating people and planting evidence does not have the temperment or trustworthiness for the job.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Oh, it is MUCH worse than a little "testilying", which is frankly bad enough. Did you read the TFA?(I know, but I got bored). Check out this quote from the cop after watching a video of another cop roughing up a handcuffed suspect:"If he wanted to tune him up some, he should have delayed cuffing him." He added: "If you were going to hit a cuffed suspect, at least get your money's worth 'cause now he's going to get disciplined for" a relatively light punch."
Now does THAT sound like a cop just joking around to you? Sure as hell don't to me. Sounds like somebody who likes to take his roid rage(yes he is also on steroids) out on the occasional suspect. Add to the fact that he felt comfortable enough with these beliefs to post them under his own name on the Internet and I'd say we got a cowboy here. As someone who has had his skull cracked because some cop didn't like "damned long haired freaks" I may be a little biased here, but he sure as hell don't sound like one of the good guys to me just by his own words. He sounds like another bully with a badge.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
If they do, they would have legal grounds for getting the officer investigated (vigilantism has been a crime for a while, and "terroristic threats" were added shortly after 9/11), possibly kicked out the force, and maybe even jailed.
This should not be considered a bad thing. Getting rid of bent cops is the only way you can ever ensure law enforcement is free of corruption. If the corrupt advertise their corruption, do not excuse them for it, nail the bastards to the courtroom wall.
You want to know the reason nobody trusts those with power, and why power seemingly corrupts? Easy. Power doesn't corrupt, the corrupt seek power, and society hands that power to those who brag the best (ie: are the least stable). If you want those with authority to be responsible, then do not permit the irresponsible within a mile of authority.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
always prefix and end your conversations with "yes sir" and "no sir".
This has always baffled me about you Americans, you viciously and readily proclaim yourselves as a nation of citizens over state power and the freest people on earth, but every single time a thread like this comes up people say baffling things like the above. Why would you, a free and presumably upstanding citizen of the community call a public servant "Sir" - in a manner that's really a bit too close to groveling for comfort?
How does having to grovel to police officers lest you upset them and they ruin your life (apparently they have this much power in your country) make you the freest people on earth?
I don't know about general social mores in the US, and perhaps calling people Sir is something that everyone does, but here in Australia nobody calls anybody Sir except for people employed in the service industry and some children to adults. If I was being bailed up by the police and I started calling them Sir, it'd probably make things worse. Either they'd think I was a spineless lick-spittle trying to suck up to them and so not worthy of ANY respect, or they'd think I was taking the piss and being a smartarse and so worthy of a hard time.
Whenever I've had association with police on either side of the law (more often than I'd like to admit now that I think about it), I speak to them in exactly the same manner that I would speak to any other reasonable and upstanding adult that I have just met. With general politeness and general respect, no more and no less, they're not gods and treating them as such is probably half the reason your police run around thinking they are. Wouldn't you get a bit of an ego if people were falling at your feet calling you Sir everywhere you went just because of some government power you wield?
Of course you're entirely correct about the temper and arguing, but attempts at gentle correction of inaccuracies in the officers claims are perfectly reasonable, they're just people after all and may well be wrong. And if they're a reasonable person and officer they'll listen to what you have to say. If they're a prick then all bets are off anyway temper or not.
I enjoy the internet, sometimes it lets me see how much better my own country is than others in various things, (the opposite too).
In Southern United States- everyone who deserves respect is Sir, period. It starts when your tiny- everyone who is an adult is yes sir, no sir. It carries on throughout life. It actually proclaims a position LOWER for the person who is saying sir, and puts the other person in a place of authority. I *still* out of habit say yes mam , no mam to people especially if they are giving me a command and/or I am in some sort of trouble, even though I'm an adult and do not live in the southern US anymore. Though, I have to say once I moved out of the south I've gotten weird looks for it.
Hard-core gadget geek here. If it says Surefire, Victorinox, Wenger, Leatherman, Nitecore or Spyderco, it's probably a good Christmas present idea for me. I doubt I'm alone on this on this board. I routinely carry a Surefire E1B (a very bright small flashlight the size of a roll of Lifesavers) and a Leatherman. You can't trace a cable you can't see, and the usefulness of a Leatherman around networking gear should explain itself.
The problem is that the laws as they are written define a weapon roughly as "anything the officer wants." People have been arrested for carrying Swiss Army Knives the officers chose to call a "hidden dirk or dagger." People have been arrested for carrying Surefire 6Ps (a six-inch long flashlight. Turns out the officer wanted to "confiscate" an expensive piece of gear). A couple of summers back, an off-duty police officer working private security told my wife she couldn't bring a six-pack of cokes into the amusement park because the aluminum can could be used as a weapon. The vendors were selling cans of cokes not 50 feet from the gate, of course.
When you hear "weapons violation," you used to think hidden foot-long boot daggers, rifles illegally converted to full auto, sawed-off shotguns, live grenades and the like. Today, more often than not, being arrested for "carrying a deadly weapon," means you were holding a Maglight to see your way to your car in a dark parking lot.
You think I'm joking? Anyone remember the terrorist Lite-Brite Toy Incident in Boston?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
I thought the term was "bald-faced lying scumbag", but then again I'm ANAL and not good with language ;-)
His job doesn't require more "discretion", it requires ethics and honesty. "Discretion" implies it's OK to be unethical and dishonest as long as you can get away with it.
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
"An American police officer is a very risky job and comes with shitty hours, high divorce rate, and a paycheck that doesn't match."
The same could be said of the guy working at the QuikyMart. Do you treat them with the same 'respect' that you do the police?
Sorta like the arrest report I have that I've saved for over 20 years.
Reality: I'm sitting quietly on some church steps with a girl, a cop car pulls up on the lawn, I look up to see the cop's mouth move but can't tell what he said, so I ask "would you like us to leave officer?" (it was not unusual for cops to shoo teens along around that neighborhood.) He grins, says no, he wants ID, I have none, he arrests me.
His police report: says I was making a disturbance, refused repeated requests that I leave until finally he was forced to arrest me.
I'm lucky that's all it was, he threatened to add resisting arrest (which I of course didn't do.)
In the car on the way to the station I find out why I had just been arrested for sitting on church steps. Turns out I had made some wisecracking unflattering comments about the town's cops' weight and age in the presence of an undercover cop (who was busy checking someone else out at the time...) and the arresting cop says to me "how about we let you meet with him alone in a room and talk about just how fat and old you think we cops are?"
I was guilty of being a cynical 19 year old wiseass, is all.
COPS LIE. ROUTINELY.
This space available.
You mean like the criminals here in Atlanta who murdered* an old lady after lying to get a warrant to do a no-knock raid on her house?
(*Of course, they got the charges reduced to "voluntary manslaughter" and "violating civil rights" because they happened to be cops in addition to being criminals.)
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
"Resisting Arrest" is one of the nastiest part of the law. Basically, if they wrongly arrest you - that is they attack you without provocation - then by trying to protect yourself even by raising your hands to stop yourself being hit you are still in the wrong - because you DARED to try and defend yourself against the state sponsored thug.
I the UK its a staple of police procedure; they look for some kid from the estates who has by necessity learnt to resolve shit with his fists, back him into a corner, and intimidate him until he either tries to run or push one of the pigs just to get away. Then he is cuffed and dragged off for resisting arrest/assaulting an officer despite the fact they had no reason to approach him in the first place. Magistrates just wave this through (I know, I used to work at a magistrates court) and the police hoover up easy arrests at the expense of some of the most vulnerable people in society. Sickening.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
I remember when I lost my faith in the police. I was in third grade and a girl came in to tell us a story about her dad getting pulled over for speeding going 5 mph over while people were zipping past him. He asked the cop why he was the one pulled over and the cop literally said "you were easier to catch". From that moment, I have never trusted authority. It has been an excellent policy for me.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It's unfair to call someone corrupt because of a status in My Space. Are cops never allowed to be in a devious mood? This could have been attributed to a countless number of scenarios the cop was in. I agree getting rid of bent cops is the only way to prevent corruption, but I don't think it's fair to say this man is a bent cop because of his My Space status.
The defendant is under oath in a British court, I know because I was once (wrongly) accused of a crime here and relied on that very fact.
When I got to the important facts the prosecution tried to shut me up and I got the court's permission to carry on (against the magistrate's initial ruling) by pointing out that I'd be breaking the 'Solemn Oath I'd sworn on the Holy Bible with our Lord Almighty as Witness' tell the whole truth if I was stopped from doing exactly that. The magistrate allowed me to carry on on religious grounds. I carried on pointing out the holes in the case and cleared my name, thankful that I was never asked if I actually believed in any of that god stuff.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Or he could list 'Nazi'. This is not a classic 'Godwin' statement: a number of British police were revealed to be members of the 'British National Party' when a membership list was revealed on Wikileaks (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/nov/19/bnp-list). That's the Nazi party of the UK, and it's illegal for police to be members of it.
Wikileaks is wonderful for publishing criminal or abusive facts that 'those with the secret privilege' would like to never see revealed, and I applaud their work.
Way to generalize.
As it so happens, every single police officer I know on a personal level is the polar opposite of that stereotype.
But then, I've never personally been molested by a Catholic priest, or had my money embezzled by a Republican, or lacked rhythm because I'm white or been in any other way victimized by one of the stereotypes that it's OK to believe in.
The magistrate allowed me to carry on on religious grounds. I carried on pointing out the holes in the case and cleared my name, thankful that I was never asked if I actually believed in any of that god stuff.
Yes, that bit does sound quite bizarre - he let you carry on on religious grounds, but not on the grounds of justice, you know, what the whole point of the court is for...