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US Pentagon Plans For a Spy Blimp
nloop writes "The Pentagon is intending to develop a new spy ship — a dirigible. At 65,000 feet it would provide a 10 year, solar power based, unblinkingly intricate and continuous view of the surface via radar surveillance. Because of its altitude it would be safe from surface-to-air missiles and most aircraft. A 1/3-scale prototype, now being designed, is 'known as ISIS, for Integrated Sensor Is the Structure, because the radar system will be built into the structure of the ship. ... 'If successful, the dirigible... could pave the way for a fleet of spy airships, military officials said.'"
What's this business in the article about it being "nearly impossible to see"? A 450 foot dirigible at an altitude of 65,000 feet would subtend an angle of 0.4 degrees from ground-level directly underneath, just a little smaller than the full Moon. Or will it be painted with big words on the side saying "Please ignore the spy in the sky", instructions that we all will no doubt dutifully follow, like the sheep we are?
Is 65,000 feet still considered withing a country's airspace? I know most planes don't go that high, but how far does a nations's airspace extend up? Clearly, once you reach "space" everyone's satellites fly over everyone else's countries, but I would think that at only 65,000 feet that would be well within a country's territory. And therefore, on grounds to be considered to be shot down.
Anyone know at what height you are in "international space"??
It all depends on the target country. Afghanistan and Iraq have constant Predator overflights. I expect the blimp will offer a stationary surveillance over relatively unarmed or poorly armed countries. It might also be use for UN crisis zones, like Sudan and Somalia, or where the local government has largely broken down.
Alternatively, the blimp could be used to patrol U.S. air space. There is always the coast guard, border patrol, war on drugs, war on terrorism, war on crime, and even coastal rescue. A stationary surveillance platform might be really useful for those applications.
The main target of this platform might be here at home in America.
Considering modern Mig's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-35) can reach approximately 62,000 feet already, having a missle go the extra distance from there would be relatively trivial.
But at what cost?
The missles aren't cheap, and neither is the costs of sending the plane up there (fuel, maintenance...and don't the higher-end planes that will be capable of reaching that altitude cost more in every way?). If the blimp costs $20,000 and missiles are $50,000; $ENEMY could have a problem.
http://xkcd.com/494/
http://xkcd.com/495/
http://xkcd.com/496/
http://xkcd.com/497/
http://xkcd.com/498/
One of my all-time favorite series...
Since this thing is unmanned, why not use hydrogen and get substantially more lifting power or get the same lift with a smaller craft?
If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.
Comsidering that an F-15 successfully shot down (destroyed) a satellite which was orbiting 555km above the Earth, the assertion that a blimp would be safe from aircraft attack is demonstrable bunk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-15_Eagle#Operational_history
Moreover, a preproduction F-15 (the "Streak Eagle") in breaking its eighth time to altitude record, went from standstill on the ground to 98,425 feet (30 km) in 208 seconds, and coasted to 103,000 feet. Modern interceptors can reach such altitudes with little if any modification. 65,000 feet is within their normal operating capability.
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=621
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Exactly my first thought. I'm thinking that 65,000ft isn't the kind of safety guarantee that I'd want for reliable intelligence, but in the context of getting more bang for buck, I suppose it's more than good enough for situations where a JSTAR would be expensive and overkill.
As a zerg surveillance system where we want to be able to quickly field a lot of cheap capability in places where we don't worry about them getting shot down or don't care if they are, I'm all for it. Just as long as they don't spend a lot of time integrating the system into tactics etc and kill a bunch of people by relying on it in situations where the zerg-airborne-command-and-Hindenburg style mission is just going to leave people blind.
Funny I guess you can compare them to zerg overlords in almost every way. Slow, good detection, cheap, expendable, and painfully obvious targets whenever they do get targeted. Over reliance is the only potential issue I see. Should use them as a powerful backup and be prepared to lose them for odd reasons. A convenience at best.
"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell them." ~ Louis Armstrong
It's funny, living in the UK I immediately assumed it would be used to spy on US citizens. It wasn't until I read the comments that I realized it might be used on other nations.
What an unusual concept for someone from UK -- a spy weapon being used on genuinely, or potentially, hostile nations, rather than on its own people.
We may joke about how bad things are in the UK here often. However, I don't think people realize how bad the state of this country is, and how incredibly evil the UK Government appears to be.
There may come a time soon when you won't be hearing from the UK for a decade or two. They have effectively sealed up the borders with new Legislation yesterday (news released on a Friday deliberately to avoid a news cycle obviously). Or at least this gives them the power to seal up the border any time -- virtual Berlin Wall.
God help us all in the UK. We have little hope.
Who needs that, the good old Mig 21 has a service ceiling of 17500m, and its GP-9 gun pod has a known effective range of 3000m.
17500+3000=20500m, or 67,000 feet....
and that is one hell of a big target.
So it is easily hitable by anyone with even a historic jet airforce. It would be safe from foot soldiers and shoulder launched missiles.
http://members.tripod.com/YUModelClub/yugoslav_air_force/mig21/mig21var.htm
http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jalw/jalw2788.html
Would be just the thing for monitoring the home populous though.
There are lots of ways to shoot these things down... they are all very expensive and require huge coordinated actions. If you want to smuggle in missiles or lasers capable of knocking one of these down, you are going to shell out cash and open up your entire operation to attack.
Playing a cash game with the US is a losing proposition. The Taliban isn't going to outspend the US. Hell, the US has airplanes that one of them cost more than every single asset the Taliban has combined. So sure, a guerrilla foe like the Taliban could conceivably gather up the cash to get a weapon that might knock out one of these. It would crush their budget and all of that money could have gone to equipping more guys with $15 rifles that could inflict real harm. For the US, it will be a minor irritation and they will just toss another one back up. It won't even show up as a blip on the budget.
People get too worked up about how defensible stuff like this is. It doesn't have to be defensible. It just has to cost so much to knock it down that if your opponent is stupid enough to spend the money you let them and call it a victory.
Against another super power of course this thing is an utter waste. You wouldn't bother fielding one of these against China or Russia... but if you are trading shots with China or Russia something has already gone horribly wrong and a few useless blimps in a hanger are the least of your concerns.
Any country, like China, that can put a satellite into orbit, can shoot this thing down.
Sounds to me like the same imbecile that once said: "They will greet us as liberators and throw flowers at our feet"
came up with this great idea that a spy balloon floating at 65,000 ft cannot be shot down.
What could possible go wrong
"Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain