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Wikileaks Pages Added To Australian Internet Blacklist

Posted by timothy on from the paging-dr-streisand-dr-streisand dept.

cpudney writes "The Sydney Morning Herald reports that the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) has added several Wikileaks pages to its controversial blacklist. The blacklisted pages contain Denmark's list of banned websites. Simply linking to addresses in ACMA's blacklist attracts an $11,000 per-day fine as the hosts of the popular Australian broadband forum, Whirlpool, discovered last week when they published a forum post that linked to an anti-abortion web-site recently added to ACMA's blacklist. The blacklist is secret, immune to FOI requests and forms the basis of the Australian government's proposed mandatory ISP-level Internet censorship legislation. Wikileaks' response to notification of the blacklisting states: 'The first rule of censorship is that you cannot talk about censorship.'" So Australians aren't allowed to see what it is that the Danes aren't allowed to see?

40 of 437 comments (clear)

  1. Happiness is Mandatory! by Leafheart · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From TFS:

    Simply linking to addresses in ACMA's blacklist attracts an $11,000 per-day fine (snip) The blacklist is secret, immune to FOI requests and forms the basis of the Australian (snip)

    So you receive a letter on your mailbox saying that you were fined in AUD $11,000 , for linking to a site that you didn't know you could link, and if you knew that you couldn't link to it you would be even more penalized because that information is not for your security level?

    Has someone on the Aussie's Government been playing Paranoia recently?

    --
    --- "When you gotta do something wrong. You gotta do it right. (Fighter)"
    1. Re:Happiness is Mandatory! by mcvos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Simply linking to addresses in ACMA's blacklist attracts an $11,000 per-day fine (snip) The blacklist is secret, immune to FOI requests and forms the basis of the Australian (snip)

      So you receive a letter on your mailbox saying that you were fined in AUD $11,000 , for linking to a site that you didn't know you could link, and if you knew that you couldn't link to it you would be even more penalized because that information is not for your security level?

      This is truly bizarre. Sounds like it's a law that's designed to be accidentally broken.

      I don't think it'll stand up in any court. It's just wrong on too many levels.

    2. Re:Happiness is Mandatory! by mdwh2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The link in question was to an anti-abortion page

      For someone who hasn't been following this too closely - were they still pretending that this was about blocking child pr0n (in which case, this shows the claim up to be false), or did they drop that pretence?

      (Even if it was about blocking child images, laws about automatic fines for linking are very worrying - linking to such images can be dealt with specific laws, and it should be up to a court to decide if the image constituted an illegal image; it shouldn't be a case that linking to something on a (secret) list is automatically illegal, no matter what the content.)

    3. Re:Happiness is Mandatory! by interiot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I initially thought nothing would come of this ridiculous filter idea because it was just so plain stupid and so many people

      Just wait. In the end, it will certainly be scrapped *, but in the meantime, there will be many lulz.

      When people implement ridiculous ideas, the only thing they accomplish is to provide fodder that helps prevent the idea from being implemented again. And they get their 15 minutes of fame, even if they wish they could take it all back.

      • (* okay, there's a miniscule possibility that Australia will march firmly in the direction of fascism, with new layers of secrecy being created just to hide existing layers of secrecy, but the likelihood that this pulls down all of democracy in Australia, all by itself, still seems miniscule)
  2. That's Kafkaesque by KiloByte · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Eh, what?? A $11k fine for breaking a secret law? How are you supposed to stay clear of it if you can't read the list of things you can't do?

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    1. Re:That's Kafkaesque by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not the mods, of course, so I can't say; but I'm sincerely hoping that the "insightful" mods are a mixture of "funny; but I think you deserve karma" and "Insightful; because you have correctly caricatured precisely the response that a creepy statist would actually exhibit".

      I urge anybody who actually agrees with my original post to explore a fulfilling career in being on fire.

  3. Well done! by the_germ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So you can't see what pages are on the list, but if you happen to link to one you pay $11,000 per day...

    Welcome to BDA - Banana Dictatorship of Australia!

  4. No Internet For You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why don't we just block Australia from the internet altogether until they learn to use it properly?

  5. Good luck with that... by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The blacklist is secret

    These guys just don't "get" it still, do they?

    Step 1) Run a simple web spider that checks availability but never actually pulls content, from within Australia.
    Step 2) Run the same spider in any non-censoring country.
    Step 3) Compare the two lists.

    Simple as that. Nothing more than a few hundred megs of shotgun-requests, and you can map the portions of the web that look dark but shouldn't.

    1. Re:Good luck with that... by BESTouff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Step 1) Run a simple web spider that checks availability but never actually pulls content, from within Australia.
      Step 2) Run the same spider in any non-censoring country.
      Step 3) Compare the two lists.

      You'd better be quick. The amount of non-censoring countries is drying very fast.

    2. Re:Good luck with that... by schmiddy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And as I mentioned, you don't need to get the whole page, just check the headers. This task would also parallelize perfectly... A few dozen people splitting the task between them could probably do it in under an hour

      LOL. I take it you've never actually tried to write or run a web crawler before? It's a fun exercise.. try it sometime.

      --
      http://cltracker.net -- powerful craigslist multi-city search
    3. Re:Good luck with that... by complete+loony · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How do you spider the internet, if you are only checking headers. The whole point of a spider is that you recursively follow all the links returned from each page.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
  6. I'm sorry, I must be new here... by wandazulu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...but when did Australia become the poster boy for blatant censorship and policies akin to fascism? I lived there for awhile back in the early 90s and it seemed like such a laid-back, friendly place where pretty much anything goes so long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

    The irony of all this is I remember getting a "talking to" by a fellow in a bar who held up McCarthyism as one of America's saddest moments because it directly attacked free speech and free thought of individuals in the name of the "commie boogyman". With news like this coming out of Australia, I'm wondering if I'm going to see him again on TV in some show trial, being accused of thoughtcrime.

    Actually, no, I won't, because unlike the McCarthy hearings, the ones in Australia would probably be censored.

    1. Re:I'm sorry, I must be new here... by Em+Emalb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's as if countries in the "western" world these days are in a race to see who can remove citizen rights the fastest.

      I really don't understand it. Have we really fallen so far so fast?

      As always, it's just a matter of following the money and/or who has the most to gain from these measures. Find that, then you can combat it.

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    2. Re:I'm sorry, I must be new here... by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I really don't understand it. Have we really fallen so far so fast?

      This isn't a popular opinion but I think it's a natural consequence of people turning to Government for all manner of problems that Government wasn't originally intended to deal with. In the words of Thomas Jefferson: "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    3. Re:I'm sorry, I must be new here... by rpresser · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is a direct correlate to the financial meltdown: it is a political meltdown. The political class has become too powerful, too insular, too overconfident, and too stupid. And just like the financial crisis, this is a worldwide phenonmenon, ranging from the Taliban to the Australians to the Danes. There is no escape.

      But if there is hope, it lies in the proles.

    4. Re:I'm sorry, I must be new here... by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Media is the most powerful branch of government.

      Only because a bunch of "progressives" got the bright idea that we needed more "democracy". The Founding Fathers rightly feared the power of the mob and took steps to mitigate how much damage it could do. If you want to limit the influence of the media let's start by repealing the 17th amendment and flogging those that want to get rid of the electoral college.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:I'm sorry, I must be new here... by smellsofbikes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >It's as if countries in the "western" world these days are in a race to see who can remove citizen rights the fastest.

      >I really don't understand it. Have we really fallen so far so fast?

      *All* governments have *always* wanted the ability to spy on everyone, including their own citizens. It's not even paranoia or a matter of the government somehow having a mind of its own: it's just individuals doing their jobs and wanting to make sure that they never get in trouble for not having done enough to keep their jobs and country safe.

      The primary difference between what we're seeing now and the Stasi or the Star Chamber is that now, every government *can* easily record 100% of the information that they have access to.

      So they are. All of them, all the time, because they feel like they have to.

      Governments are *always* the most dangerous entities to humanity, and it's not even like the governments can help it. They just become that way because that's how power works: people functioning in their own self-interest and self-preservation, will always make larger and more intrusive governments.

      Let's hear it for strong crypto.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  7. It's all child pornography. by tjstork · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The vast majority of the list looks like kiddie porn sites or links to kiddie porn sights. You know, teenagers and younger being exploited.

    Frankly, the Danes and the Australians are doing the "liberal" thing in trying to block these sites. If they block everyone, they reason, the sites will go out of business and the exploitation will stop. That's admirable.

    But... since I'm an American.... I would rather let the people go to these sites, determine who is getting their jollies off looking at this stuff, and then let's round up all these sick f--- people and kill them.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:It's all child pornography. by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If they block everyone, they reason, the sites will go out of business and the exploitation will stop. That's admirable.

      And if we outlaw drugs, people still stop using them and drug abuse will stop. That's admirable.

      But... since I'm an American.... I would rather let the people go to these sites, determine who is getting their jollies off looking at this stuff, and then let's round up all these sick f--- people and kill them.

      That thought has occurred to me as well. Why block these sites when you could presumably get warrants to see who is going to them and actually investigate the people breaking the law instead of trying to impose a censorship scheme that will never work anyway?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:It's all child pornography. by flaming+error · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > The vast majority of the list looks like kiddie porn sites
      Please post ACMA's blacklist so we can verify.

    3. Re:It's all child pornography. by sd.fhasldff · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Frankly, the Danes and the Australians are doing the "liberal" thing in trying to block these sites.

      This must be the American "liberalism is just another word for communism" version of the word "liberal".

    4. Re:It's all child pornography. by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      By "all", you mean "all cases except where it's something else instead, such as an anti-abortion site".

      This is a usage of "all" I was not previously aware of.

      (But yes, I agree with your last paragraph; it's unclear what the intent of censorship is, and the problem is when the scope widens beyond that of abusive non-consensual material.)

    5. Re:It's all child pornography. by __int64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because it's not actually about stopping childporn, it's about imposing censorship. Whether childporn is weeded out is irrelevant, and these filters don't actually have be effective at stopping childporn to be effective at making people complacent.

    6. Re:It's all child pornography. by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well I would say that just leaving them up would be bordering on entrapment.
      It wouldn't be hard for somebody to spam people with HTML Email with links back to those sites. Most people don't turn off the images in email like I do.
      If a site is illegal in a certain country for some reason and that country decided to block it then that list should be made public.
      Keeping the list secret is just wrong.
      Every site that is blocked should have a reason that it is blocked and they type of content that is on it. If you are going to block it the let people know why.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    7. Re:It's all child pornography. by flaming+error · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Who modded this funny? I wasn't trying to be funny - I was trying to point out that the list is secret, so GP doesn't know what's in it. Until this assertion is backed, I call bullshit.

  8. dear all australians: by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Insightful

    welcome to what it feels like being an american during the bush administration. pariah, object of scorn and derision. you do realize what a joke this makes your country look like right?

    1. sites blocked not for pornography, but ideological reasons
    2. harsh punitive financial punishments just for linking
    3. secret lists you, as a common citizen, don't have the right to see

    i now think of australia the way i do iran and china in terms of freedom of expression. you better clean this disgrace up, you blokes can't let this continue, it is an embarassment

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  9. Re:Oh great, there goes slashdot by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe you can answer a couple of questions...

    1. Have they blocked SSH access out of the country? It's hard to block a tunneled connection...
    2. Have they blocked TOR access?

    Maybe I'm just being naive but firewalling off an entire country (noted exception: China) seems really impractical.

    --
    Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
  10. Slope by olddotter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hopefully this will not come to be in Australia or not be up held upon legal review. Two things I find are disturbing:

    1) You will be held accounting for violating the law, but you can't see the law to know how to avoid violating it.

    2) All of western democracies have shown a sharp turn towards the police state in the last decade. Something they all used to stand up against and accuse non-democracies of being evil for the same polocies.
       

    --
    Think Deeply. ...
  11. Re:Australia going fascist?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Don't worry. USA will get there in their own time.

  12. Re:The progressive criminalisation of conservatism by benjfowler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think you'll find that people with the most problems with freedom of expression are the right-wing (and extremely conservative) Catholics like Stephen Conroy and Nicola Roxon. The people doing the oppressing here are the conservatives and their enablers, not the small-l liberals.

  13. Re:Oh great, there goes slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We have no constitutional rights to free speech. We do have implied protected political speech, but that's not in the constitution. In practice, however, we have free speech. In fact, I can say things like s^@$[CARRIER LOST]

  14. Re:Oh great, there goes slashdot by goombah99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe you can answer a couple of questions...

    1. Have they blocked SSH access out of the country? It's hard to block a tunneled connection...
    2. Have they blocked TOR access?

    Maybe I'm just being naive but firewalling off an entire country (noted exception: China) seems really impractical.

    No they just banned the sites hosting the proxies and sites listing the location of proxies.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  15. netnuterality by drknowster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    do we realy need these people around claiming to represent a consensus ? we have the technology,but we gotta do it "before" they have thier way with it .The best bumper sticker seen yet"politicians and diapers should be changed often ,and for the same reasons."

  16. Re:No problem... by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Only if you have a willing HTTP proxy to actually connect to. Far too often the technical solution of "Lets just setup a VPN!" or "We'll just encrypt it and use a proxy!" gets thrown up without realizing that you have to have a working endpoint in a lax country to work with. If you're relying on the "free" ones that pop up here and there - good luck. While you MIGHT get the HTTP proxy setup with them (VPN ain't happening), they tend to flitter in and out of existence so quickly that you're playing a game of cat and mouse more than actually using the net. You're certainly not going to perform a few keystrokes and make the problem go away.

    And without using them or finding some pay equivalent (that you can trust), you have to work in a data connection, server space, and power in some nonrestrictive country. When you start factoring in collocating a server in Mexico then we're beyond the "Just encrypt it!" stage.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  17. Six Degrees to Australian Blacklist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So you're blocked if you link to a banned site.
    Are you blocked if you link to a site which links to a banned site?
    Are you blocked if you link to a site which links to a site which links to a banned site?
    Are you blocked if you link to a site which links to a site which links to a site which links to a banned site?
    Are you blocked if you link to a site which links to a site which links to a site which links to a site which links to a banned site?

    I wonder how many links from the Commonwealth's site it takes to reach a banned site?

  18. wtf? by oftenwrongsoong · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me get this straight. So you're not allowed to see which sites are on the blacklist but if you link to one you get fined $11,000 a day? How the hell are you supposed to avoid linking to something that you don't know you're not supposed to link to? All Australians are stupid and I'll justify that statement. Those Australians who work in government are stupid for putting together such a stupid thing. And the rest of the Australians are stupid for allowing such a government to exist at all.

  19. Re:Catholics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    By far the nastiest and most insidious threat to democracy is religion.

    Remember Iran is a democracy.

  20. Re:Oh great, there goes slashdot by TapeCutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Healthy paranioa says that there are plenty to people that dissapear even in the United States of Australia."

    Parinoa is not healthy, you should try skepticisim instead. eg: I am skeptical of things that you and I have no evidence for.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  21. Re:Oh great, there goes slashdot by Thinboy00 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    [snip]
    Maybe I'm just being naive but firewalling off an entire country (noted exception: China) seems really impractical.

    What are you smoking?

    --
    $ make available