Slashdot Mirror
Making Sense of Mismatched Certificates?
Ropati writes "I bank with capitalone.com. Recently I went to log in to my credit card account, and my browser reported that the site certificate didn't match the web site I was on. [Expletive.] I'm wondering if I am getting a poisoned DNS URL. I have to log in and do my banking, so I accept the mismatched certificate. The banking site is complete, my transactions are listed but that doesn't mean there isn't a man in the middle attack here. I am still curious how much I have exposed my banking assets." Read on for more, and offer advice on how to interpret what sounds like a flaky response from the bank.
Ropati continues "On the Capital One login page, there is a Verisign link on the page to check that the website is suppose to match. So I click on the verification icon and I am rewarded with a link to Verisign. They report that this web site certificate is for onlinebanking.capitalone.com not the servicing.capitalone.com where I log in. Is this the mismatch my browser reported. I know nothing about certificates.
I call Capital One and ask them to fix the problem. If this was a browser issue on my part, then the Verisign link should match. The tech support supervisor, Joe — XRT413, said he couldn't do anything about it and he couldn't escalate the problem to someone who could.
So my questions are: Are the certificates a mismatch or is my browser bellyaching for nothing? Is the certificate mismatch a security hazard? If someone poisoned my local DNS routers would it be obvious in the URL? How would I prevent such a thing? If everything was working correctly, would the certificate alert me to DNS poisoning, or is this just cosmetic security?"
Ropati continues "On the Capital One login page, there is a Verisign link on the page to check that the website is suppose to match. So I click on the verification icon and I am rewarded with a link to Verisign. They report that this web site certificate is for onlinebanking.capitalone.com not the servicing.capitalone.com where I log in. Is this the mismatch my browser reported. I know nothing about certificates.
I call Capital One and ask them to fix the problem. If this was a browser issue on my part, then the Verisign link should match. The tech support supervisor, Joe — XRT413, said he couldn't do anything about it and he couldn't escalate the problem to someone who could.
So my questions are: Are the certificates a mismatch or is my browser bellyaching for nothing? Is the certificate mismatch a security hazard? If someone poisoned my local DNS routers would it be obvious in the URL? How would I prevent such a thing? If everything was working correctly, would the certificate alert me to DNS poisoning, or is this just cosmetic security?"
This is a misconfiguration on their end. EV certificates, the ones that turn your address bar green and coax turtles into doing happy dances, are really expensive. It's my guess that they've either reused a certificate on another system, or one of their developers made a mistake in how the site and server cluster is configured. It's certainly something to complain about.
If you're ever in doubt about the validity of the certificate or security of a transaction, however, DON'T DO IT!. This goes for standing at an ATM in a shady neighborhood or doing business online.
It's all a scam and we're all laughing at you. While spending your money. Thanks for the good times.
) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
Hello, IT, have you tried turning it off and back on again?
Ah... another tech support call. Sure, what's the problem?
Are the certificates a mismatch or is my browser bellyaching for nothing?
Yes. And maybe yes too.
Is the certificate mismatch a security hazard?
Common sense would suggest it wouldn't be in a big popup dialog labeled "WARNING" if it wasn't.
If someone poisoned my local DNS routers would it be obvious in the URL?
No.
How would I prevent such a thing?
Stop clicking "Okay" or "Yes" to every security warning you don't understand.
If everything was working correctly, would the certificate alert me to DNS poisoning, or is this just cosmetic security?
If the certificate isn't properly signed, a warning like the one you were presented with should throw a dialog box in the web browser.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Seriously, there's a bank on every corner. Unless you have some compelling reason to stay with Capital One, open an account elsewhere. You don't even have to close your Capital One account -- save it as a backup.
That's what I did when Bank of Texas (aka Bank of Oklahoma) added so-called "security questions". The first time I failed at answering "What was your first pet's favorite food?" (or something similarly stupid), I changed my direct deposit to put $1 a paycheck there, and move the rest to an account at a financial institution with a better understanding of Internet security.
Speaking of financial institutions, why are you still banking at a for-profit (ha!) institution, anyway? I've got one credit union that doesn't charge an overlimit fee on my credit card, and another that's paying over 4% interest on my checking account. Why can they do that? Because they didn't take stupid risks 10 years ago. I should know -- they wouldn't give me a home loan. The bank that did was first in line for a taxpayer bailout.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Seconded. The certificate is correct.
I don't know what that verisign link is all about but it is useless.
You certainly cannot trust information within a web page to verify the identity of the server.
Click on the the little 'lock' icon on the bottom right corner of your browser to inspect the certificate.
The first thing to note is that SSL covers the host-to-host connection and is ignorant of higher-level protocols. There are a couple of things which can cause SSL mismatches:
1) SSL cert is set up to one hostname that the machine services, but site is on another. The SSL negotiation happens prior to the host headers being processed. This could be solved by browser controls (i.e. do a rDNS lookup on the cert's host and make sure it matches the IP you are connecting to), but this ends up causing other, more serious issues, because different sites on the same server could be controlled by different parties. Hence if you have a shopping cart, I could re-use your cert on my shared site on the same box, spoof your page, and steel credit card numbers. So the browser behavior is correct.
2) The SSL cert could have been accidently re-used (unlikely).
My general rule is that if the hostname's TLD matches with the cert (capitalone.com), but the most host-specific portion does not (servicing vs online banking), this is reasonably (though not completely) safe to ignore. Revoked certs should ALWAYS be treated with suspicion because you don't know why it was revoked. Expired certs.... Well, it depends. There are other things that can cause certs to be improperly shown as expired so that demands more careful consideration.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Exactly. They were stupid. They gave a server an alias, and didn't realize that it will throw an error to the clients. It probably worked fine in their dev environment though, where they probably accepted the wrong cert and saved the exception because they got tired of clicking the link. :)
Being that he ignored the error, didn't view the cert to see what it was really assigned for (and continued on to give his login information), it proves that most users don't really care, and will provide their security credentials regardless if they've been warned that there is a problem or not. The cert could have been for bad_haxor_inc.ru, but since he didn't look, he doesn't know.
We have to assume that it's a mixup with the servicing.capitalone.com and onlinebanking.capitalone.com hosts, but we don't know.
Why didn't they just buy a wildcard cert? They're so much easier to work with. :)
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
This reminds me of an story. A friend and I were moving a heavy couch and at an inopportune time he got flustered and said 'Hold on, we need to put this down and take a break'. We did, finished moving it later and that was that.
About 6 months later out of the blue he explained to me that he had to put the couch down because the apparently strained a bit too hard and pooped his pants.
I have no idea why he told me, much less told me 6 months later. He was kind of a weird guy.
The moral of this story is:
If you do something embarassing or stupid and privately get away with it, don't tell anyone.
An ID Thief opened a Capital One account in my name. They had my name, address, SSN, and DOB, but got my mother's maiden name wrong. Capital One approved the card anyway. Then, when the thief immediately changed the address (from mine to another address), before even activating the card, it didn't raise any red flags in their systems. Then, when the thief tried to get a $5,000 cash advance on the card (still not activated), it didn't raise any red flags in their systems (though they denied the advance). Then, when I called them, they refused to give me any information on the theory that I could "go and shoot the guy and they would be liable." Instead, I had to have a police officer call a special "cops number." The police officer called that number and got a recording which apparently no one ever returned phone calls from. At every step of the way, Capital One seemed to be going out of its way to protect itself *from* me and my ID Theft investigation instead of caring about the fact that it was an accessory to ID theft. Needless to say, I won't ever do business with Capital One again.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
I don't really understand why any individual with regular "banking" needs would use a bank today. Credit unions are non-profit, and generally, because of their structure, are run much better than banks are. My credit union has been impacted 0% by this banking mess stuff. I'm earning 4% on my PERSONAL CHECKING account, and not paying any fees. I also have all of my business accounts, and my mortgage with my local credit union.
Credit Unions: Like banks, but cheaper, non-profit, less corrupt, no over-paid executives, and not out to screw you over.
Due to security concerns (just like the OP is expressing,) you can't get a Wildcard EV certificate.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
WARNING: RANT...
I hate to say it, but I agree that you'll never get anything fixed by a call center. I've worked in call centers and the people who work there generally have no way to speak to anyone who can fix a problem, even in a "tech support" call center. Also, since they either get paid per call, or at least get docked pay if they aren't actively answering incoming calls, then they have no incentive to fix anything. In fact, they have a big disincentive against fixing anything since it will take away from their pay check and they likely hate the company too much to do it on their own time.
Also, I've been on the other side doing development and it's a similar problem there. It's very easy to make a simple typo or other mistake and never know the difference. No one in the call center ever tells you that the customer is having a problem, so you don't know that something needs to be fixed. So even though it might be a 1 minute fix for you, you'll never know that it needs to be done. There was a bug in this one software that had been there for 3 years, and the workarounds were even in the documentation to train new call center employees. Once a developer finally got it, it took seconds to fix. The customers suffered for 3 years for a few seconds of someone's time. Now I realize you can't fix every bug, all the time, but if the right people don't know about it, then it will never get fixed.
The real problem, IMHO, is that large companies treat their support/customer service departments like they are a drain on the company rather than a way to increase your reputation, thus outsourcing, low pay, strict rules, etc.
Because of this I prefer to do business with smaller companies or, even better, in person. If you're a "real person" standing in line at a bank, the teller is more likely to fix a problem than if you're just a number on a screen and a squeaky voice on a phone. But in-person is so inconvenient in this world of constant multitasking.
"You deserve to have your account cleaned out for reckless disregard for the security of your financial information. "
no no NO. No one deserves that, stop pandering the insurance companies line.
If you car is not locked, you don't deserve to have it robber, if you leave a window to your house, you do not deserve to be robbed. if you windows are easily breakable, you do not deserve to be robbed. If you were a short skirt, you do not deserve to be raped.
You deserve to live in a world where you don't have to lock everything.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Something strange is going on here. Capital One's main site returns a certificate for the correct domain, but the certificate is invalid. This isn't a wrong-domain issue; the cert is bad. CN="www.capitalone.com", the dates are valid, the issuer is Verisign, but it won't validate in Firefox. Our own system, SiteTruth, which uses OpenSSL, also indicates it's no good. But neither Firefox nor OpenSSL is producing a useful error message. It looks like this certificate is either corrupted or bogus.
The location ("L") in the cert is Glen Allen, VA. Capital One has a facility in Glen Allen, according to Google, and it looks like a huge warehouse. So that's probably their data center, at 4871 Cox Rd, Glen Allen, VA - (804) 270-4104.
A traceroute ends at "capitalone-gw.customer.alter.net", which doesn't mean much one way or the other.
Their stock has dropped from 55 to 12 since September 2008. If you have any money in there above the FDIC insurance limits, get it out now..
Capital One IT staff: "Oh shit, we're on /."
2nd C1 IT staff: "Oh fuck. I'll bet it's the certificate."
*phone rings*
"Oh shit, it's the CTO's number."
CTO: "Why the fuck are we on slashdot's front page?"
And presto, Capital One's certificates have been fixed.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.