Battlestar Galactica Comes To an End

On Friday evening, Battlestar Galactica ended its four-season run as one of the most popular science fiction shows in recent history. 2.4 million people tuned in for the finale, and reactions to the ending — positive, negative, and often a mix of both — are springing up all over the internet, as are tributes and retrospectives. Producers Ron Moore and David Eick held a Q&A session after the finale to discuss certain aspects of the story and spell out the final status of several plot lines. Fans of the show will have a chance to see the Cylon side of the story this fall in a two-hour TV movie titled "The Plan," and we've previously discussed the spin-off prequel series, Caprica, the pilot for which will come out on April 21st. Be warned: these links and the following discussion will contain spoilers.

Comments

Two changes that could've been made

[StandardCell]

1. Less talk and more subtlety. This means very little or no explicit dialog, no in-your-face pictures of dancing robots (but maybe Baltar and Six in front of an electronics store), and Jimi Hendrix's version of All Along The Watchtower playing on some radio in the background of some guy on the street. As it stands, it was too overt and tried too hard to make its point for viewers already accustomed to needing to think a bit more.

2. What probably would've happened after Lee recommended all technology go away is a split between those who still wanted it and those who didn't. The two sides would create a pact to keep separate from each other, the small minority of technology-loving people going to live on a small continent off the west coast of Africa... Said continent, of course, to have been destroyed at some future point in time by natural disaster and essentially all technology along with it. This would solve what would be an obvious dilemma and split in viewpoints of the remaining people while reasonably explaining what would've happened to their technology.

Re:Two changes that could've been made

[aeryn_sunn]

I hated the ending. The unilateral decision to get rid of all technology for everybody was both absurd, short-sighted, and just plain stupid. Why not give people a choice at least? And why the hell would the humans decide to live like cavemen on a strange planet without at least medical technology? There are probably viruses, bacteria, and parasites that would wipe out the colonials. So are we to believe that simple non-life threatening infections now all of a sudden become deadly because of the basic lack of antibiotics?

And what about food? With farming and all what happens during a drought? Hell, what about simple things like books to read, pencils and pens to write with? The whole premise that the colonials all, all off a sudden decide to become essentially Amish after living with technology all their lives is just catastrophically asinine. Fuck, why not at least not destroy the ships in orbit, leave one Raptor on Earth so that the different settlements can be checked in on from time-to-time. Hell, what happened to the sense of wonder and awe of the colonials in that why wouldn't they at least search for other inhabitable planets just in case Earth like gets hit by a comet or asteroid or some other natural disaster befalls Earth and the Colonials need to get the hell outta there.

Ug, what an unbelievably crappy ass implausible ending to an otherwise awesome series... Am I the only one that feels like this???

Re:Two changes that could've been made

[lordofthechia]

There are probably viruses, bacteria, and parasites that would wipe out the colonials.

Totally agree, moving beyond the silliness of the colonials abandoning the technology that kept them alive for all those years... This was a perfect opportunity for the writers to let us know this is why settling on earth without Hera would have ended in disaster. It's like they forgot the episode where her blood cured cancer? It could have been subtle too:

Whoever:"Will we adapt to this planets diseases?"
(Pan to Hera on the field)
The Doctor:"I think we'll be allright"

Ok, I suck at writing, but you get my drift.

Re:Two changes that could've been made

[anagama]

I agree with you though I might have been able to accept them going to "Amish-Tech" -- Even metal plows, wood cutting tools, leather tanning, etc. etc. were all high tech of a certain age or other. But to drop down to sticks and stones is just ridiculous. After working so hard to survive for years, they're now going to ensure that at least 95% of the survivors die in the next two years from simple things, like lack of food, or lack of gear to analyze berries and roots aside from the "what happens when I eat this" test. They should have just pulled a Cavil -- at least they'd have avoided the suffering.

Re:Two changes that could've been made

[servognome]

Yeah. But why would one willingly choose a short, dirty, uncomfortable existence in which you play immune system roulette?

Because the alternative was a short, dirty, uncomfortable, powerless existence inside a tin can where you play jump roulette.
The common civilian spent their lives huddled on cots, and served as slaves to the technology that kept them alive. There would be a great sense of freedom to make your own life apart from the caste of fixing computers, processing fuel, and eating algae all day.

It is clear that they all died out without reproducing if Hera is considered M. Eve.

No, Hera is just the only one with a direct maternal linage. Other human/human-cylon bloodlines could exist

Re:Two changes that could've been made

[anagama]

So they are leaving nothing behind but possessions, not the knowledge that made those possessions.

Take the smartest most adept computer engineer in the world, put him/her out in the woods with a set of clothes, a tent, and a pocket knife. Call me when he returns with a functioning computer.

Take the smartest most adept metalurgical expert, put him/her out in the woods with a set of clothes, a tent, a pocket knife, and one friend. Call me when they manage to find enough ore, which they can dig out in sufficient quantity with sticks, to blast into metal which they can then work into a simple thing like a spoon.

This could go on and on. The fact is, they needed the remnants to get a start on what they'd need to learn to survive. Throwing it away means most won't survive. In essence, it was a stupid and suicidal ending. It's no different than if they found earth and then decided to commit suicide by staying on the ships and flying into the sun. Either ending is just ridiculous contempt for the viewers. At least most viewers.

Disappointed in the ending?

[orkybash]

Originally posted this over on Bear McCreary's blog, but I think I'll use it here too...

I think most people who complain about the finale not meeting their expectations are the people whose expectations included a cereberal explanation for everything that happened on the show. And I'll admit, I was hoping for a little more in that arena. But in terms of emotional wrap-up and as a fitting send-off to the show, I thought it couldn't have done better.

To people who wanted every mystery tied up nice and neat, I hate to break it to you but it was never that kind of show. Moore has said from the beginning that certain supernatural aspects wouldn't be explained.

Go watch Lost or something.

Re:Disappointed in the ending?

[jdbausch]

except... if the show constantly begs the question "what is Kara Thrace?" and uses that hook to bring you in, you need to answer it. Even the promos were saying "the truth will be revealed" Sorry, but to not deliver that, once you kept asking the question, is cheap. It is like saying, watch this show because there are these questions you want answered. They answered some, but not all. Ridiculing viewers for not liking this treatment is blaming the victim. I personally thought the whole finale was fine, even with all the plot holes, things that did not make sense, and all the rest. I never really cared about finding Kara's status, or that of the "head characters", or any of the spirituality aspects - I figured they would be written off as spiritual in some way. what really killed it for me was the existence of our "earth" They already showed an "earth" that looked just like our earth. It was destroyed, not habitable. No explainations given as to why this new "earth" has continents that look EXACTLY like the other "earth". At the end of the day, there is only one explaination. The show told us that "cinder earth" was in fact our earth. They did this so that we would not think that finding our earth was an option. But then they did find our earth. They cheated. they tricked us. Without any kind of other explaination given, that is the only conclusion we can draw. and it's bullshit. You can't cheat your viewers and expect them to like it. Those that think it is all good are battered wives, coming back for more. Lost is 10 times the show that BSG is. I might not have said that before this finale, but I have no doubt about it now. At least it has not cheated the audience.

Re:Battlestar Galactica

[gerddie]

IMNSHO, science fiction is not about spaceships, space battles, people killing each other in spaces, monsters killing people, and most variations thereof. Science fiction is about exploring possible technical advances and their implications, as well as human nature in extreme situations and the like. In that, BSG has become really intriguing at times - just think of the suicide bombing at the beginning of the third season. Without the spiritual part of BSG it would have been just another space opera, probably fun to watch, to entertain, but certainly no to make you think.

PS: You are right about Firefly, though.

Re:it rocked

[Trillan]

No, Deus Ex Machina requires the resolution to drop in that moment, without story support. God suddenly appears, and fixes things.

That's not at all what BSG did. BSG pre-seeded their resolutions a year or more in advance. Sure, they were miracles, but they were miracles we'd been told a year ago would happen, all the finale did was show us exactly how they happened.

You can not like the way it was resolved, but that doesn't mean it was Deus Ex Machina.

Re:it rocked

[Sponge Bath]

The god explanation is such a cop out.

Choices to tie together a rambling, make it up as you go jumble of story bits:
1. God did it.
2. It was all a dream.
3. To be continued... in a new series!

Re:Five minutes too long

[Wintermute2_0]

Agreed. The scene with Adama on the hill was such a lovely coda to a series that had been playing with concepts of death, rebirth, and change for all four of its seasons. But then came those tacky five minutes which were made even worse with the inclusion of stock footage of those oh-so-threatening Japanese robots.

So, the moral of BSG is that I'm supposed to be afraid of my Roomba?

The hokey spiritualism also irritated me, but it seems like said hokey spiritualism is now a prerequisite for most televised SF (cf. Lost, Heroes). The networks seem to think the masses need a healthy serving of God with their spaceships and time travel or else they might change the channel.

Still, the first hour of the was as good as anything the series has ever done. And I liked how the original series' theme music was incorporated into the scene of the fleet heading for the sun. And Olmos should get an Emmy nod for breathing life into a character that could easily have turned into self-parody in the hands of a lesser actor.

Re:Battlestar Galactica

[Narpak]

IMNSHO, science fiction is not about spaceships, space battles, people killing each other in spaces, monsters killing people, and most variations thereof. Science fiction is about exploring possible technical advances and their implications, as well as human nature in extreme situations and the like.

Oh I did not mean to imply that Science Fiction can't be both. I also enjoy lots of science fiction literature that involves no, or only marginally, killing of any variation what so ever. For me Science Fiction means any narrative or story set in a world at a higher technological stage than us. I was just naming the battles and killing parts specifically since it tied into my thoughts about Battlestar Galactica.

As for the making you think part I like when stories makes me think new things. Unfortunately in this case I have read, watched and pondered about a lot of interesting or outright weird things for what begins to seem like a long time now; so BG didn't introduce me to anything new in that regard. However, if it did for others that is indeed great. A broadening of ones horizons is always a good thing in my opinion.

P.S. 2 min of furious shouting for Firefly.

More than 2.4 million people

[juanjux]

2.4 million people tuned in for the finale.

And probably five times that figure downloaded the torrent outside the USA. I wish a system to pay for the chapters outside USA, at a reasonable price and with good subtitules were in place; I would use it.

Clarke's Third Law

[Nebulious]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

The 'higher power' in Battlestar is probably not a divine entity, but a remnant of the ancient society of Kobal that wants to see humanity survive. This chessmaster knew what it was doing though, so it's origin and motives are never explicitly stated.

No tech?

[ardor]

Lee's conclusion made no sense. The situation was already good for another try. I mean, Cylons and Humans were at peace, so rebuilding a Human-Cylon civilization was a possibility. The rebel cylons and the humans were truly allied, and even the Centurions weren't enemies anymore. They had first-hand knowledge of what happens when they don't treat artificial lifeforms as equals AND a chance at rebuilding a hybrid civilization from scratch, therefore breaking the cycle of death. (Honestly, with this shiny advanced Cylon tech and the sturdy, tough Colonial tech, that would have been one hell of a civilization.)

Instead, they threw it all away, and opted to become cavemen. This is the equivalent of running away from the problem. The final minutes demonstrated this. With all Colonial and Cylon knowledge lost, WE are now doomed to repeat these mistakes, since the problem still is unresolved. The only true way of breaking the cycle is for society to acknowledge that artificial lifeforms are not of lesser status.

Re:No tech?

[jjohnson]

They didn't opt to become cavemen, they opted to become pastoralists, akin to Quakers. With their knowledge they could easily recreate a relatively stable and safe pre-industrial civilization--they kept maps and a few raptors, and things like binoculars. They weren't planning on abandoning language, they were planning on teaching the locals to speak.

Keep in mind that their technological civilization was at its ragged end. The ships were falling apart--they planned to cannibalize Galactica to keep other ships running. And after five years living a cramped, always-near-death-from-technology life, I imagine a quiet, pastoral life seemed a lot more appealing to them than it would to you or I.

And at bottom was the awareness that their technologically empowered lifestyle kept leading to the same cycle of destructive war that catapulted them back there anyway. The idea was to give themselves another chance at the cycle, to hopefully mature spiritually this time.

Re:it rocked

[patro]

excellent ending

No, it was a mess. Deus ex machina is the easy way out.

Not always

[Weaselmancer]

The god explanation is such a cop out.

A lot of times when you see something like that, it is a cop out. But not in this case.

The story - in its entirety - was about something divine moving mankind/cylonkind like pawns. People have destinies in this show, real ones. All throughout.

So it's not like they just slapped a Deity into the ending to tie things up. Nothing else at that point would have sufficed.

Re:Not always

[anagama]

So it's not like they just slapped a Deity into the ending to tie things up. Nothing else at that point would have sufficed.

I was dissapointed in the ending but this Slashdot discussion has made me understand it completely. And yes, God was completely necessary:

• Starbuck is the Harbinger of Death because she leads them to earth, where
• God intervenes and causes everyone to lose every bit of rationality and common sense.
• This enables them to make a decision which ensures that all of the Colonists die in short order from malnutrition and disease ...
• EXCEPT for Hera. Her immune system helps her get through the first couple years.
• A band of indigenous hunters either decimates Hera's family as they represent a thread to game and forage resources, or adopts her after finding her family dead from hunger and disease.
• Shortly after puberty, Hera begins pumping out babies with the better immune system.
• In this way, Hera becomes Mitochondrial Eve.

Dissenting opinion: Jumped the shark then drowned

[guanxi]

We re-watched the original miniseries recently; what a good, gripping story. At the time, I liked the show because it was more "Fi" than "Sci": Good characters, interesting plot, sophisticated issues (esp. the political issues). They took advantage of the flexibility of 'Sci' not to provide gee-whiz gizmos and superpowers that are no more meaningful than special effects, but to provide a unique setting that was not possible in real-world setting.

Re-watch the original mini-series yourself and you can't miss how far the show has come, but in a completely different (and in my mind, wrong) direction. The characters and acting have become extreme and overdramatc. The political issues hang around, but in often they are absurd (how about the politics of ditching all your technology? It was handled by one sentence: 'It's surprising there was no dissension' -- it sure is!). And the show is dominated by the Sci -- mysticism, cylon projections, the final 5, etc etc etc. Booooring. Anyone can make that stuff up as they go along; what does it mean?

And the conclusion was so poorly thought out that the writers are guilty of dereliction of duty. Returning to the decision to abandon all technology: Perhaps they should recall that our ancestors lived short, brutal lives, and they grew up with the skills to survive in that environment; our heroes have no idea how to hunt a buffalo with a spear, clean it, skin it, and preserve the meat for the winter. Just think of this little inconvenience: No salt, no pepper, no spices; no vitamins! When the first drought -- or the locusts, or neighboring tribe or a pack of baboons -- comes and they run out of food, and half of them die off, it won't seem like such a good idea. When people start dying from simple infections because there are no antibiotics, when women start dying in childbirth, when most children don't survive to adulthood, when the leading killer becomes starvation instead of obesity, they may remember the benefits of technology. Sure, we can close our eyes to all these problems, but couldn't the writers have made an effort to tell a story with some plausibility?

Like many movies and shows, it seems like the writers ran out of time or funding, and just whipped something together to fulfill their obligation to finish the story. Their audience should demand more.

Dartboard Plot Development

[MrSteveSD]

Seasons one and two were great, but things rapidly started to go down hill after that. It became rapidly apparent that there was no overall plan (like Straczynski had with Babylon 5). They had set up lots of mysteries without first knowing what the resolution would be. If the mysteries were ever solved at all, they were solved in random ways, and they have pretty much admitted as much. A good example of this was the "final 5". By their own admission they picked them randomly, so what was the point of the audience trying to guess who they might be, based on possible clues?

I find it difficult to watch a show knowing that the writers have no more idea of how things will be resolved than I do. Mysteries can be very compelling, but the fun of a mystery is trying to unravel it yourself, and you clearly can't unravel it if the writers are going to use a dartboard to resolve it. What's the point of getting caught up in a mystery when you know it's a complete mystery to the writers as well?

Another problem with Galactica has been the masses of pointless filler. A good recent example of that is Baltar's religious Harem. They spent absolutely ages on that plot-line, then dumped it at the last minute. What was the point of it all? How exactly did it advance the plot? A lot of fans I know dumped the series somewhere in Season 3, complaining that it had turned into a soap opera. I know exactly what they mean.

Whereas in Season 1 and 2 you tended to have strong plots in each episode (blowing up a Cylon fuel depot, or Finding a missing pilot etc) in later seasons things started to become very drawn out. Instead there was more and more focus on relationships and peoples petty problems. That sort of thing is fine in an Alan Bennett play, but this show was fundamentally about people fleeing from killer robots in outer space. When you watch science fiction you expect some degree of excitement. It doesn't necessarily have to be low-brow "laser gun battle" excitement, but endless drawn out episodes with nothing happening are a pretty sorry excuse for science fiction (if not fiction in general).

Yes, always.

[khasim]

Given that God is all powerful and all knowing, it is ALWAYS a cop out to write him into a script.

People have destinies in this show, real ones.

Which is nothing more than a cop out saying that the bad script is not really a bad script. It's a good script about God.

Why would God have NEEDED or WANTED to have the characters act like that? Particularly when there must be a near infinite number of options available to an all knowing and all powerful God.

It's a cop out. That's all.

Re:Great 4.5 Year Show, Weak Ending

[nine-times]

Oh, and also, the role that Hera plays that makes her so important is a little bit strange to me. To have her be the genetic Eve of our race kind of puts a strange importance on her. What does it mean-- being half cylon gives her the superpower of having lots of sex with various different men, having diverse offspring, I guess.

I guess I'm really asking, what does her being half-cylon half-human have to do with anything? Couldn't you make the argument that Athena is the actual genetic Eve? Is Hera actually important?

Re:it rocked

[fracai]

The god explanation is such a cop out.

I thought the "You know it doesn't like that name." was a nice touch and opened it up quite a bit more than just "God did it".

Re:it rocked

[PsychoSlashDot]

The god explanation is such a cop out. It doesn't explain Kara or why it doesn't just try and influence or outright stop the genocide in the first place.

You're trying to hard to dislike the finale. Why not accept that the other participant in this cycle isn't actually all-powerful. It can influence, prod, and manipulate. It can pull of events that appear miraculous, but perhaps there's a scale concern.

Better yet, doesn't it make artistic sense that this is about free will? The other influenced the colonials and Cylons to choose differently. It didn't force them, or deny them choice. It educated them. Powerful message there.

I thought up to the Opera house scene, it was great and when Galen went nuts (he couldn't control his emotion when the fate of two civilization are in stake ?), there was just more questions raised than answers from that point on.

One of the strongest themes of the BSG series has been that "people are people". The writers have never shied away from an opportunity to show characters behaving in very human ways. Vengeful, spiteful, angry Tyrol being overwhelmed by the moment? Very much in character. This is the guy who (while half-awake) beat Cally's face in because of a few bad dreams. This is the guy who killed an Eight to help Boomer escape. This is the guy who lost his rank and the respect of Adama because he couldn't keep it together after Cally's murder. Tori's action has repercussions for that man, and he's never been one with lots of self control.

Again, you're trying to dislike the ending.

The Cylons Had a Plan ...

[Prototerm]

... Too bad Ron Moore didn't. And it shows!

Re:Okay, but very inconsistent and unsatisfying

[Archimonde]

My belief is that they ran out of good ideas at the end of the second season. First part of the third season was good too, but what followed later (couple of final 3rd season and whole season 4) was a completely different show in my opinion. The problem was they were just inventing stuff on the fly (even by their own admission!) and that recoiled of course because the show now was full of inconsistencies and pretty much had no decent storyline. When you compare the first 2.5 seasons to the remaining 1.5 seasons you are pretty much looking at the different series, just with the same actors. The first 2.5 seasons were absolutely the best series I have ever watched; good storyline, action packed, spectacular space battles, extremely exciting, good cliffhangers, cylon mistique etc. But compare that to the rest of the show (the last 1.5 seasons) and you get complete bullshit like that final five mysticism (well it started somewhat acceptable, but turned out completely unplausible), starbuck resurrection, moon sized plot holes (ressurection ships/hubs, hera child which is just blah, starbuck music, coordinates...), stupid later opera house sequences, baltar's stupid and useless cult, apollo turn into a lawyer/politician, no action, melodrama, life and death pseudophilosophy, presiden't who just won't die etc. After disappointing last few season 3 series I was hoping that they realized what mistakes they made and amend them in season 4. But first part of season 4 was barely watchable then there was a huge pause and the second part of the season 4 arrived. They introduced that mutiny but that was it. The show was dead anyway. I just knew two days ago that the finale would be unsatisfactory and I was somewhat right. I won't go into it, many other posters explained anyway.

It is just such a shame that this show wasted the last season even though it could have been the greatest.

Re:it rocked

[khallow]

No, Deus Ex Machina requires the resolution to drop in that moment, without story support. God suddenly appears, and fixes things.

Foreshadowing doesn't automatically qualify as sufficient story support.

Re:it rocked

[cHALiTO]

I'm an agnostic and that didn't prevent me from understanding the religious/spiritual theme in the show, which I enjoyed immensely.

Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean I don't understand why religious people do or that I think they're wrong to do so.

Re:it rocked

[Cruciform]

I only kept watching the show because I'd already invested two years following it. When they made that final push away from science fiction and toward religious soap opera, it was a real struggle to watch.
When they were tackling issues like torture, ethics, and the "us or them" mentality the show remained interesting. And then they ruined it by introducing God as an off-set character.

Re:it rocked

[Walkingshark]

You're trying to hard to dislike the finale. Why not accept that the other participant in this cycle isn't actually all-powerful. It can influence, prod, and manipulate. It can pull of events that appear miraculous, but perhaps there's a scale concern.

If this entity can teleport a fully functional Kara Thrace and a fully functional like-new Viper into space, there is no consequcnce to anything the characters do. Everything is pointless because the magical being behind the curtain can fiat anything it wants to happen. This makes following the story and the drama pointless.

Also, as mentioned many times, Ron Moore admited that he was just making shit up as he went along. Which is basically how religion came about, so I guess I can see why religious people liked it.

Re:Shades of mysogeny and role reversal

[Nebulious]

I disagree. You're hand picking facts. Everybody suffers in Battlestar, not just the women. Saul loses an eye. Cavil describes being left to die and having to take his own life by scraping open an artery using a bullet casing. The first time we meet Leoben, he's dying of radiation. The second time? We get to watch Starbuck torture him for a whole hour before Roslyn tosses him out the airlock. Surely you didn't miss the part the part where Anders gets the bullet in his head and is then flown into the sun by his own wife?

Sorry, but I don't see any bias against any sex in this show. Not even in sex appeal with the way women keep oogling that towel shot of Apollo.