Slashdot Mirror


Asperger Syndrome Tied To Low Cortisol Levels

caffiend666 writes "According to a Health Day article, low levels of a stress hormone may be responsible for the obsession with routine and dislike for new experiences common in children with a certain type of autism. 'This study suggests that children with AS may not adjust normally to the challenge of a new environment on waking,' study researcher David Jessop, from the University of Bristol, said in the news release. 'This may affect the way they subsequently engage with the world around them.'"

39 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. WHAT? by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wait, What?! They can cure my Asperger's?! I DONT WANT THEM TO! I like everything the way it is! LEAVE ME ALONE! AHHHHHHHHHH

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    1. Re:WHAT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As I understand it, there is a fear that if Asperger/Autism get cured that we will have a problem finding people that excel in mathematics.

      On a more personal note, while I have not been tested for it, there has been a suspicion among my family and doctors that I have Asperger's Syndrome. This thread's parent mocks, but I would not want to be "cured" if I indeed have it.

    2. Re:WHAT? by Saxophonist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Parent's comment, while appearing funny, has more than a grain of truth.

      I have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, and while it certainly comes with some challenges, I wouldn't change the fact that I have it. I wouldn't want to give up the quirks and abilities that have been a part of me my whole life. A quote seems appropriate here:

      "Not everyone on the autism spectrum wants to be cured." -- Sigourney Weaver

      (Note: I have nothing to do with the linked blog.)

    3. Re:WHAT? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      but how much MORE effective would you be if you could talk to real people like you talk to slashdotters? How much more could you contribute if you could function in "management" type discussions... that we all avoid to live in mom's basement.

    4. Re:WHAT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      but how much MORE effective would you be if you could talk to real people like you talk to slashdotters?

      More effective in what regard? More effective in deciding whether my current blouse is of the right color to go with my jeans? More effective at promoting myself at the waterhole? More effective in speaking 25 languages fluently? Face it, they teach the same in economics class: spending more effort on activities that are not part of your core business will always be to the detriment of said core business.

      Besides, the way I see it, Asperger's syndrome is not a lack of vocal skills but a lack of a sense of "urgency" when it comes to smalltalk (without the capital). That has both pros and cons, and I'm happy with it. But then again, I'm also a big proponent of sociodiversity (the way things are going, maybe one of the last), so me considering myself "perfectly sane" isn't really much of a measure.

      How much more could you contribute if you could function in "management" type discussions..

      Not. We already have too much people that are incapable of producing something of value.

    5. Re:WHAT? by mrdoogee · · Score: 2, Funny

      The old Crayola Olblongata.

    6. Re:WHAT? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Suppose you fall in love with and marry someone else on the autism spectrum. Suppose there's a significant chance of your kids having severe autism of the locked-in variety. It might be nice to have a nice treatment or cure in the toolbox.

    7. Re:WHAT? by yttrstein · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I understand that you don't want to give up the quirks and abilities that have been part of you your whole life, but I have another question for you:

      Would you be willing to give up the label "Aspergers"?

    8. Re:WHAT? by shambalagoon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I find it odd that several people are saying that they would prefer not to be cured. Likely the "cure" is actually an ongoing treatment of adding cortisol to the system. One could TRY this out for a short period to see if they like being in that state of mind better. If they find they lose more than they gain, they could stop the treatment and return to the Asperger's state.

      I recently experienced an Addisonian Crisis, in which my cortisol levels dropped very low. It was a nightmarish state to be in, and I could not think or function properly until weeks later when my cortisol came back into balance. If AS is even a small step in the direction of that low-cortisol dementia, I would highly recommend at least trying the treatment. One might discover entire aspects of their mind and self that have been unavailable before.

  2. So ... by Aaron_Pike · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... to prevent AS in my own children I should make their infancy more stressful? Like run them through mazes with electrodes along the wrong routes or something?

    1. Re:So ... by Thelasko · · Score: 3, Funny

      Like run them through mazes with electrodes along the wrong routes or something?

      Back in my day, we called it "building character."

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    2. Re:So ... by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 3, Funny

      Your set of 9 "perfectly"s has one more letter than Ballmer's set of 8 "developers".

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  3. Re:Article by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    FTFA:

    If these Asperger symptoms are caused primarily by stress, caregivers could learn to steer children away from situations that would add to anxiety, the researchers said.

     
    But as a diagnosed asperger's sufferer myself, NONONONONONONONO! This is EXACTLY the type of wrong response we've been getting all along to this disease. No, you don't "steer the children away" from situations, you train them to find other ways to deal with the situation. And you work on research to find other ways to increase Cortisol production.
     
    I think it would help mightily if the researchers on High Functioning Autism, actually had High Functioning Autism themselves. Then maybe we'd have suggestions that would really help in the real world.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  4. I have 5 mod points that I won't use here. by Samschnooks · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I get 5 or sometimes 15???

    Anyway....

    I never see these studies that say they weed out child abuse. I know for a fact (sorry no cites or sites and I'm relying on personal experience here ... ) that child abuse will result in the same symptoms as Asperger's. That's what I'm wondering. You have one crowd who's looking for a biological reason and another who's looking for a behavioral.

    I don't know what to say. We're complex and any studies like this needs to be taken with a grain of salt or two.

    1. Re:I have 5 mod points that I won't use here. by Saxophonist · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is some correlation between child abuse and Borderline Personality Disorder, which can have some similarities in outward symptoms to autism spectrum disorders. Could that be what you are seeing? Perhaps not, but it might be worth considering.

    2. Re:I have 5 mod points that I won't use here. by greg_barton · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I never see these studies that say they weed out child abuse.

      But this study leads credence to links with child abuse. Cortisol is a stress hormone. Abuse is a stress inducer. Right there is a good place to start. Maybe a cause of Asperger is cortisol resistence (as opposed to a lack of cortisol) brought on by excessive stress, either chronic or at critical points in brain development.

      Biological and behavioral causes are intertwined. Research is not a zero sum game. (Though research funding can seem to be at times.)

  5. WTF? by RenHoek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I thought Asperger's was usually linked to anti-social techies, but working in the IT business is damn stressful.

    How can this every be correct?

    1. Re:WTF? by Tiger4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You think it is a coincidence your coworkers usually work in dank and dimly lit cubicles with no human contact? That they startle whenever anyone approaches? That they always bitch about the poor conditions at the rare and always uncomfortably awkward staff meetings, but no one ever actually attempts to change it? You're seeing it *EVERY DAY*

      --
      Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
    2. Re:WTF? by JCSoRocks · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They're just in the "zone" in their "cave" - http://www.randsinrepose.com/archives/2007/11/11/the_nerd_handbook.html
      I like BSing with my coworkers as much as the next guy but lets be honest: people being social = less work getting done.

      --
      You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
    3. Re:WTF? by RockWolf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They're just in the "zone" in their "cave" - http://www.randsinrepose.com/archives/2007/11/11/the_nerd_handbook.html I like BSing with my coworkers as much as the next guy but lets be honest: people being social = less work getting done.

      I have mod-points, but I'd rather post.

      I'd like to echo the sibling post and say thanks for linking - I came across that article maybe 2 months ago, and it -perfectly- mirrors my working environment and habits.

      However, your off-the-cuff comment regarding productivity seems poorly timed. This current /. article cites a study that says a worker that spends a reasonable proportion of their working day browsing (~20%) is 9% more productive than a worker who grinds through the day. Maybe this is due to a mental page-out during a context switch, but it seems to clear the mind. Some people go for a smoke, though the productivity effects of that break are presumably partially from the nicotine hit, as well as the switch. Others have a 5 minute chat around the water cooler, others prefer /.. It seems that a break that gives the brain time to develop a 1000-yard stare and run the garbage cleaner helps concentration levels. Of course, if the water-cooler chats go for 3 hours, that's not helping anyone.

      ~/Rockwolf

      --
      February 9th, 2009 8:55pm: Slashdot becomes self-aware.
  6. Re:Go to your hugboxes, asspies by an+unsound+mind · · Score: 2, Funny

    *sigh*

    And every SINGLE goddamn Aspergers-related article will result in a million awful (as in no good at it) trolls crawling out of ED pretending to hold a candle to GNAA.

  7. Re:Article by Thelasko · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Basically, you just said "maybe... maybe not".

    Yup, I'm guessing that administering cortisol was beyond the scope of the experiment. We won't know the answer until someone tries it.

    This is good science. It leaves the reader with more questions than it answered. That means MORE FUNDING!

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
  8. neurological, not behavioral by shrubya · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I'm reading them correctly, the studies being quoted (BTW, here's one of them if you have ScienceDirect) are NOT saying that Asperger's can be cured or prevented by altering a child's exposure to stress. They're saying Asperger's brains have a different neurochemical reaction to sudden changes than ordinary brains do.

    1: This may (or may not) point toward changing how Asperger's kids are trained to deal with stress.
    2: More interesting to me, this may point to targeted pharmaceuticals able to provide long-term remission.
    3: This may just be a side effect of Asperger's, and the actual cause is somewhere else entirely.

    1. Re:neurological, not behavioral by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or perhaps it's primarily our society which is fucked up. I know, I know just medicate them, it's easier.

       

      --
      Deleted
  9. Prednisone by e1618978 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is Cortisol related to Prednisone? 40 mg of Prednisone made me *feel* Autistic - I couldn't look at people when they were talking, it was too overstimulating to see their lips move while I listened to their voice.

    1. Re:Prednisone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They are related. After about a week on Prednisone your body is unable to produce Cortisol on its own. This is the reason that patients are weened off of it so slowly.

      I posted earlier (as anon there too); I am suspected of having Asperger's. I do have Crohn's Disease and have spent a great deal of my life on Prednisone (so much of it that I had osteoporosis by 18 years old). I've had Asperger's symptoms my entire life, but only began treatment for Crohn's when I was diagnosed with it at 12. Reading this article makes me think that these things may be related.

    2. Re:Prednisone by w0mprat · · Score: 4, Informative

      Prednisone is a artificial corticosteroid, and corticosteroids are the family of adrenal drugs, corsitol included. So it's plausible since I understand this drug is used to supress immune system and adrenal function?

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    3. Re:Prednisone by Atrox666 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't know this seems like the opposite to my experience. I get no real stimulus from people talking other than irritation. It's like the buzzing of an insect. I have to force myself to fulfil the minimum requrements of human interaction and it never feels like it's worth it. Even getting laid usually is more trouble than it's worth. That being said I wouldn't want to be "cured" as stunted abilities were compensated for by other abilities that were enhanced. My life's work depends on those enhanced abilities. I would like to soften it a fair bit. "it's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" -Krishnamurti As far as the people who say it's a fake disease I can asure you that the Dis-Ease in my life is quite real. The medical reasons given however for my issues may be total crap.

  10. Something Awful's definition by tylersoze · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hmm, I always thought it was contagious and this was how it was contracted:

    http://i.somethingawful.com/u/elpintogrande/july07/aspergersdefinition.gif

  11. as a parent of a 15 yo son with Aspergers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...does this ever fit.

    Anecdotally--

    He is on a medication but boy is that first 15 minutes after waking up every morning freaking difficult.

    I can relate to him usually quite well as I'm sure I'm somewhere on the A.S.D. line (never diagnosed though).

    It is my job in the morning, every morning, to attempt to calmly wake him up and get his one pill into his system ASAP so he can get his routine started. ... not that the rest of the day is a cakewalk.

    1. Re:as a parent of a 15 yo son with Aspergers... by Beve+Jates · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Meh, it is a spectrum disorder. Probably a large percentage of the entire population is on there somewhere.

      Funny, people with AS are the ones more likely to not want other people to have it because they feel they are special and want it to stay that way. It is an aspie trait. Also if anyone is going to correctly self diagnose it would probably be someone with AS.

      Personally, if I could get rid of it I would. Although there are benefits, they do not outweigh the drawbacks... not by a long shot. I want to be happy and live in the real world with the fake, stupid, normal people. I am tired of being a mutant, I want the cure. Put me in the Matrix... ignorance is bliss.

      Self examination is not a bad thing. Whatever it is called, if you have problems then at least it is something else to look into which might lead you to a path that can help.

  12. This article makes it sound as if AS was bad by blind+biker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In my view (and I have many AS traits), Asperger's Syndrome is not a bad thing - AS people are more creative, more courageous and morally/ethically more daring than the average (so-called neurotypical) person. AS people are disproportionately more responsible for human advancements. They're also very honest (mostly not capable of lying and conversely, naively trusting that everybody else is like them, unable to lie).

    We need more aspies, not less.

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    1. Re:This article makes it sound as if AS was bad by try_anything · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As someone who manifested many Asperger's symptoms as a child, I remember thinking all the time, "It would be obviously better if everyone did X, but they don't, because they're stupid." And you know what? None of my insights did anybody a damn bit of good. Aspies are great at pushing forward some fields (such as computing,) but they fail badly at fields that require influencing other people. RMS is only a partial exception to this.

      One example: Aspies are more ethically daring basically because they don't recognize a lot of the small-scale pain they cause. It's easy for them to see the social big picture because they don't see the social small picture. They don't hesitate to call for large changes because they don't understand the cost of the social and cultural disruption that large changes cause, or they dismiss them as irrelevant. Calling for change doesn't make it happen. You need people who can make changes happen by hacking the culture. For instance, Ghandi came up with a theory of nonviolent resistance that meshed perfectly with Hindu culture, while at the same time making it open to all Indians. Then Martin Luther King, Jr. adapted ideas from Ghandi and elsewhere to a completely different cultural context.

      An Aspie in MLK's place would have said, "Look, these Indian guys totally kicked ass with this approach, and I know we're black and Christian but we just need to forget about that because this stuff FUCKING WORKS. I mean, this is so OBVIOUS and I can't believe you guys are getting hung up on the fact that these ideas seem a little alien. They make perfect sense in a Hindu context, and if you're interested in that I can recommend some scriptures. If you're not going to bother understanding it, then just SHUT THE HELL UP and let the smart people talk. What the hell is wrong with you fucking dickhead morons? I give up. I can't make it any more obvious than I already have. Why don't you just go and play basketball and be cool and have sex and all that stuff that's so much more important than the FREEDOM OF OUR RACE. Idiots."

      Aspie-type people make valuable contributions to society (and I have to believe this or I'd just off myself) but Aspies are impotent in the face of many important problems. Sometimes the right guy for the job is someone who is really unattractive from a geeky point of view -- like a slick, charismatic, self-aggrandizing, womanizing minister.

    2. Re:This article makes it sound as if AS was bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Got any kind of citation for that? 'Cause it sounds just like the bullshit the ADHD camp of the "neurodiversity" movement (AKA the "let's impede treatment by redefining ourselves as fine!") spouts, and just about every single piece of actual evidence points in the opposite direction.

      -A person with ADHD who's sick of the "let's declare ourselves specially gifted against all evidence" movement

  13. Other Cortisol Links by caffiend666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Looking around, Cortisol is one of those good/bad things.

    http://www.south-florida-personal-trainer.com/stress.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol

    Looks like it's mostly understood on a physical level with only a little understood about it's neurological impacts. Physically, it sounds like it tells your body to 'break down and rebuild'. A little bit of cortisol, it works like growth hormone. A lot of cortisol, your body ends up useless mush. I can imagine no cortisol means your body is basically incapable of new things; Wikipedia lists low-cortisol impacts like Addison's_disease, Hypoglycemia , and learning impairment. Sounds like the researchers are taking a physical effect and applying it mentally as well.

    --
    Here's to losing my Karma Bonus again....
  14. Perhaps they are cortisol sensitive by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And you work on research to find other ways to increase Cortisol production.

    Rather than cortisol deficient. Perhaps "normal" levels simply cause particular anxiety.

     

    --
    Deleted
  15. Re:Article by try_anything · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's odd the amount of geeks that seem eager to be diagnosed with Aspergers... as if that excuses their perceived failings, allows them to blame it on a condition they have no control over... or perhaps it simply is a badge of being a 'true' geek.

    Even worse, the popularity of Asperger's as a self-diagnosis among geeks prevents them from getting a better grasp on their problems. Many other causes can produce similar symptoms, and even when a diagnosis of Asperger's is accurate, it isn't the last word on a person's mental health. An Aspie can have other psychological problems.

    For instance, I had long thought I might be an Aspie, and when I ended up in therapy, I waited to see if my therapist mentioned it. (On my first visit, I spotted a couple of books about Asperger's on her bookshelf, so I figured she would be a good check on my self-diagnosis.) After several visits she did mention that my description of my childhood experiences sounded like I could have Asperger's, and she knew an authority on Asperger's who could screen me. At the time, my health insurance wouldn't cover the screening (a couple thousand bucks,) so I basically asked, is the screening worth it? She said it would be interesting to have a more expert opinion on whether it was really Asperger's, but:

    1. My current level of functioning didn't support a diagnosis, so the diagnosis would be retrospective.
    2. My problems were at most indirectly related to Asperger's, in that I was deeply formed by my early social difficulties, whatever caused them.
    3. Asperger's would be one factor among several traumatic influences in my childhood.
    4. There was no particular question about my current condition that would be cleared up by a diagnosis of Asperger's.
    5. All in all, the course of my therapy would be minimally affected by a diagnosis of Asperger's.

    This from a therapist who had books about Asperger's on her shelf and who suggested I get screened for it without any prompting on my part. Clearly she was interested in Asperger's and knowledgable about it. She just didn't think it was that important for my further development.

    Contrast that with the many geeks who (without any professional diagnosis) use Asperger's to wholly define their past experience and future potential.

  16. Re:Article by Toonol · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not at all. But I wouldn't try to protect the child from ever needing to read.

  17. Re:Coincidence? by rush22 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Picture a journalist in his or her natural habitat: in an office in front of Facebook. The journalist sees a possible story (on their screen). Their natural curiosity means they want to know the story behind "robs567 says: Actually, I can't be a 'fag.' I am a female web designer, and I do not beat my kids. Despite what you granola-eating hippies say, spanking is good and, unlike typical libtards, I have the citation right here. Have some reality with your stfu." Immediately the journalist is on move, and an investigation is begun; the journalist moves their computer mouse. Where has a curious editorial on a blog lead them? To news! However, this bit of news has been taken by one 'New Scientist'. They are not deterred, for within the article are what journalists call "key words." And it's these key words that they use to get the scoop! Employing both Google and their marketing department, the journalist combines these "key words" until a news story is created. A breaking news story is obviously better than an old stuffy one, so they use an old journalistic technique: called "sort by date." Eventually, the journalist finds "cortisol" and "autism" and "2008," and presto: breaking news!