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CFLs Causing Utility Woes

dacut writes "We've seen compact fluorescent lamps start to take over shelf space at the local hardware store. Replacing a 60 watt incandescent with a 13 watt CFL seems like a great savings, though many consumers are disappointed with the slow warm-up times, lower-than-advertised lifetimes, and hassles of disposing the mercury-containing bulbs. Now EDN reports they may use more energy than claimed due to their poor power factor. Mike Grather, of Lumenaire Testing Laboratory, 'checked the power factor for the CFLs and found they ranged from .45 to .50. Their "real" load was about twice that implied by their wattage.' The good news: you're only billed for the 13 watts of real power used. The bad news: the utilities have to generate the equivalent of 28 watts (that is, 28 VA of apparent power for you EEs out there) to light that bulb. Until they fix these issues, I'll hold on to my incandescents and carbon arc lamps, thanks."

15 of 859 comments (clear)

  1. Still... by revlayle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since I have switched to CFL... none of my light bulbs has ever burned out yet for 9+ months. With incandescents, I was changing 5-6 light-bulbs a month (I live in an older house, the electric grid and the wiring in the place I live is not always ideal for traditional light bulbs)

    1. Re:Still... by roc97007 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We've had this particular discussion on slashdot before. A lot of people, including me, had initially good results with CFLs, but it seems in the last couple of years the average lifespan has decreased significantly. Speculation is that, at least with some manufacturers, they've fallen victim of "value engineering".

      My own experience: My first two CFLs, purchased in the mid-nineties, still work fine. Of the Costco eight-count blister-pack I purchased last November, only three are still working.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    2. Re:Still... by Whammy666 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is a new generation of CFLs about to be released next month from a company called PureSpectrum. They have a new ballast which fixes the power factor problem (it's 0.93!) and is instant-on and fully dimmable. It's expected to be priced about the same as the current generation of non-dimmable CFLs.

      Looking a bit further ahead, another company called Vu1 has a novel idea for a light which uses electron stimulation against phosphor to produce light (sorta like a crt). It has no mercury and is also dimmable. It's also shaped like a regular incandescent so lamp shades will fit on it. They will be less expensive than LEDs and produce much better color rendering, but they will likely cost more than CFLs.

      --
      When all else fails, run.
    3. Re:Still... by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You say "run of the mill", but IIRC the only brand that hasn't died at all yet in the Consumer Reports lifetime test is GE.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  2. But still... by RabidMoose · · Score: 3, Interesting

    28 60, so still a good power savings. Plus, all of the CFL's I've bought in the last year don't have the same warmup problems that most of the early models had. They're not quite instant-on, but that's ok with me; I like that my bedside light comes on slowly in the morning, it's less of a shock to my eyes.

  3. LED is a viable option in 40 Watt replacement by xzvf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While a little more expensive they last even longer (20 years?). They really aren't available much greater than 40 watt replacements but I've been happy with the performance. Not effected by cold and come on instantly.

    1. Re:LED is a viable option in 40 Watt replacement by wjh31 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      in my experiance, LED's have had a pretty high faliure rate, i got a set of 6 about 6 months ago, 2 ive had to take back to replace because they stopped working, and of the ones which are here, some are noticeable dimmer than others

    2. Re:LED is a viable option in 40 Watt replacement by mrfantasy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just put in a ton of CREE LR6s in our kitchen/family room renovation. 650 lumens at only 12 watts (a 65W floodlight replacement.) The CRI is 92 with the 2700K bulb. Power factor is > 0.95. Rated at 50,000 hours (and have a 3 year warranty if they die before then) These are great bulbs. They retail for about $100, I was able to get them for $80/per on sale.

      --

      -- Of course I'm paranoid. I'm a sysadmin.

    3. Re:LED is a viable option in 40 Watt replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've purchased LED lights for my house and was extremely disappointed with their performance and efficiency. However, as you said, the Cree XRE and other recent high power LEDs can be made into very efficient and nice looking lights. Problem is, they haven't yet - at least not that I have been able to find. As far as I have found so far, the LED manufacturers have the goods, but the light "bulb" manufacturers have not yet taken advantage of all the latest LED tech.

      There's also the typical BS found in many new industries where cheapo manufacturers take advantage of the hype and produce sub-par products at very low prices. It's an easy one in this case because one of the major points is cost. This should shake out eventually and we'll see better quality products hit the market. I just want it to hurry up.

      I hate CFLs because the ONLY good thing about them is their lower power consumption. But to manufacture them is very dirty and they have mercury in them, so they can't be disposed of cleanly either. I don't like the slow start up speed or the color temperature. I bought a few packs of CFLs before finding all this out so I'm still using them. But I will not buy any more. I'm dying for LEDs to come to the main stream.

      It's not a surprise to find that the power factor of CFLs sucks too. Again, cheapo manufacturers trying to cash in on a trend. Quality manufacturers know how to handle power factor problems.

  4. Re:CFL watt exaggeration by liquiddark · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Using red/yellow fire and living under a yellow sun, that is.

  5. Re:That pretty bad by PIBM · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The problem lies in many things; with the environmental factor, for which a lot of people will run screaming for, while a lot of people just throw the CFLs in the garbage; with the much less than advertised life span, for which many people will run crying fool (I've had some 15$ bulbs put alongside a third normal one, both blew up in less than 3 months and the normal one lasted more than a year!); from the power company, which are subsidizing your usage of them because of the power factor; from the artist, which start crying when subjected to the bad white balances put off by CLDs; by those of us who lives in areas where the extra heat dissipated by the light bulbs just reduce the heating required from the central system; and I guess by many other people I can't think off.

    Anyway, have fun adding more reasons :)

  6. In 1994... by RingDev · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My mother inlaw bought 2 CFL to use in her kitchen. They are still going strong and they are probably the most used lights in her house. She paid a fair bit for them back in 94, but I'd say 15 years of consistent power savings has long since balanced out ;)

    I've replaced all of the lights in my house with CFLs over the last 5 years. The only ones that have a slow light time are the super compact ones I got to fit in a specific light fixture. And the only 2 that have "burnt out" were due to excessive vibration (one in the garage) and another that I caught with a chunk of sheet rock while remodeling.

    And most of them are from the elcheapo 5-packs that I paid under $15 for.

    I've had no issues with flickering, the color quality is quite warm (I actually have to bring in a colder light when I'm painting, but for room lighting they are great). So even if they are sucking up 28 watts instead of 14, that's still 1/2-1/4 what I would be sucking up using 60-100watt bulbs.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  7. Re:Harshness is all about color temperature by Rei · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Fluorescent bulbs don't have color temperatures defined.

    Yes, they do. Look at the box.

    Fluorescent bulbs are very much band-limited, unlike broad band black body radiators.

    And the color temperature rating for fluorescents is based on the weighted average of where its power output lies.

    Heck, they do an okay job of offsetting your heating bill, in the winter.

    Electric heat is inefficient. And electric heat in the summer means more AC. Adding extra heat to your house is overall definitely not a good thing.

    --
    "99 dead duelists of Dios on the wall. 99 dead duelists of Dios! Take one's ring, pass it around..."
  8. Re:Speaking of conscience... by julesh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And when a user drops a CFL, the problem is right there in their house, not miles away.

    A CFL typically contains 3mg of mercury. A tuna steak is likely to contain as much as 1mg. If you eat fish three times and break a CFL once (and snort the mercury rather than disposing of it safely), you'll take in as much mercury from the fish as the broken lamp.

  9. Re:Speaking of conscience... by maeka · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ok, here we go - someone check the math.
    http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs095-01/
    Tells me the mean amount of mercury in US coal is 0.17ppm.
    We will assume 100% of said mercury enters the air.
    We will also talk about 100 watt incandescent bulbs to make the math easier.

    450 grams of coal are burned to deliver 1 KWh to your outlet.

    http://www.amazon.com/Incandescent-Light-Shape-Frosted-100A19/dp/B000273TEA
    100 Watt bulb, 20,000 hours.
    2,000 KWh in its lifetime.
    900,000 grams of coal burned for this light bulb over its 20,000 hour lifetime.
    153mg of mercury in said coal.

    http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf
    tells me the average CFL has 4mg of mercury in it.

    I was going to work out a full hour-by-hour comparison - but there is not need. I the case is B/W enough, unless someone can convince me less than 4% of mercury makes it up the stack.