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Gecko-Inspired Dry Adhesive Set For Space

AndreV writes "Biomimetic adhesives aren't new, but a PhD graduate in British Columbia has developed a new method of creating microscopic, mushroom-like plastic structures in order to produce a dry adhesive that mimics the stickiness of gecko feet—and is prepping his glue-free innovation for outer space. A research group at his university, in collaboration with the European Space Agency, is engineering a spider-like, sticky-footed climbing robot destined to explore Mars, and it is also developing reusable attaching systems for astronauts to use where magnetic and suction systems generally fail. In the future, he says, single-use versions could be used in any number of medical applications as well as for replacements for everyday sticky needs, such as Post-It notes and Scotch tape."

141 comments

  1. Just you wait... by RushNerd · · Score: 2, Funny

    We all know that Geico is secretly behind this.

  2. sweet by SinShiva · · Score: 2, Insightful

    +1 for spider robot technology

    1. Re:sweet by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A friend of mine studied this stuff for his Ph.D research. It's the molecular-level adhesive force between the Gecko's feet and the surface that allows it to cling. That force is relatively-weak but when multiplied by a few million "pads" on the foot, it's strong enough to let a lizard climb up a wall. Or a robot.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:sweet by Spatial · · Score: 1

      Now my mind is filled images of swarming sticky-footed Big Dog robots.

    3. Re:sweet by OolimPhon · · Score: 1

      it's strong enough to let a lizard climb up a wall. Or a robot.

      Why is your lizard climbing up a robot?

    4. Re:sweet by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Maybe somebody told it to go on ahead?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  3. NOT what you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you RTFA you will see that this new adhesive is not based on the nano-scale properties of gecko feet, but is the first space adhesive that doubles as a delightful gecko-flavored paste in emergencies.

    1. Re:NOT what you think by clone53421 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Bwahaha, you can't get me to read TFA that easily!

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    2. Re:NOT what you think by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

      Why shuld I read TFA whan I dont bother reading my own posts?

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    3. Re:NOT what you think by Abstrackt · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why shuld I read TFA whan I dont bother reading my own posts?

      Don't worry, we don't bother reading your posts either.

      --
      They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
    4. Re:NOT what you think by noidentity · · Score: 1

      If you RTFA you will see that this new adhesive is not based on the nano-scale properties of gecko feet...

      I knew it! it was inspired by the HTML layout rendering engine.... right? Right???

    5. Re:NOT what you think by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      Why shuld I read TFA whan I dont bother reading my own posts?

      Well obviously you didn't read that.

      --
      $ make available
    6. Re:NOT what you think by Adriax · · Score: 1

      Yeah, cake is great, I love it too. I prefer chocolate myself, much better than reading posts.

      --
      I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
    7. Re:NOT what you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm...I just noticed that I didn't even do those spelling errors the first time I read the comment.

      I'm scared. Hold me.

    8. Re:NOT what you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok.

  4. I wonder why my fingers are sticky! by fprintf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You know, I hate it when my fingers feel sticky, even if they really aren't "sticky" in that stuff that I pick up stays stuck. You touch the backside of a post-it, and then for a little while they are sticky afterward. Or you touch scotch tape, and same thing - the fingers are just tacky and it feels weird in a fingers-down-the-blackboard sort of way.

    There is no way I'd want to be in Space and have to touch this stuff, and then not be able to get it off by washing my hands. I prefer to get my fingers sticky another way, thank you very much!

    --
    This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
    1. Re:I wonder why my fingers are sticky! by thedonger · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's not a "dry" paste you apply, but more like a silicone glove you wear. There is no loose anything to stick to you.

      --
      Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
    2. Re:I wonder why my fingers are sticky! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, I hate it when my fingers feel sticky, even if they really aren't "sticky" in that stuff that I pick up stays stuck. You touch the backside of a post-it, and then for a little while they are sticky afterward. Or you touch scotch tape, and same thing - the fingers are just tacky and it feels weird in a fingers-down-the-blackboard sort of way.

      Do you get the same feeling when you touch your pee pee? A bit sticky afterwards?

  5. magnetic by Khashishi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's obvious that suction wouldn't work in space, but why would magnetic stickers fail?

    1. Re:magnetic by GSPride · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's obvious that suction wouldn't work in space, but why would magnetic stickers fail?

      You're trying to stick to plastic?

      --
      Apple has never claimed not to be evil, they're just very stylish about it.
    2. Re:magnetic by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Non-ferromagnetic metals or plastic.

    3. Re:magnetic by SnarfQuest · · Score: 4, Funny

      Magnetic stickers only work on refrigerators. Since it's colder on the outside of the space station, you can only use them on the inside.

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    4. Re:magnetic by Red+Flayer · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's rubbish. Magnetic stickers don't work in space because there is no North or South pole to point to.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    5. Re:magnetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's obvious that suction wouldn't work in space, but why would magnetic stickers fail?

      because everybody and their brother seems to have some silly obsession with carbon fiber and/or aluminum these days.

    6. Re:magnetic by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      It's obvious that suction wouldn't work in space, but why would magnetic stickers fail?

      Who said they would fail? An additional way to stick one thing to another is still going to be useful.

    7. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I know it's slashdot and we don't read TFA here, but at least read TFS.

      it is also developing reusable attaching systems for astronauts to use where magnetic and suction systems generally fail

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    8. Re:magnetic by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      When you have to launch into space whatever you build, the stuff you don't include can easily be worth its weight in gold(depending on exactly where the price of gold is at the time, of course).

    9. Re:magnetic by SnarfQuest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Someone needs to collect all the scientific knowledge expressed in slashdot posts, and write a text book. Why hide this useful archive of scientific truths in obscure blog posts when we can use it to illuminate the minds of the children?

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    10. Re:magnetic by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm just practicing for when my daughter gets old enough to start asking "why?" about everything.

      I am SO going to screw her up for elementary school science classes.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    11. Re:magnetic by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Better than titanium and blue LEDs.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    12. Re:magnetic by Gilmoure · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My 8 year old asked why you can't divide by 0. Said her teacher told her that she shouldn't do that but now she wants to know why she shouldn't do it. Sigh. I showed her divide by zero error on a calculator. /damn my art school (won't need math for this degree!) drop out education (even art school has homework requirements)

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    13. Re:magnetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easily fixed, bud - just show her this 'cautionary tale': http://halshop.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/phpw9jvl0pm.jpg

    14. Re:magnetic by BytePusher · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just explain it like this... 1/1 = 1, 1/0.5 = 2, 1/0.1 = 10, 1/0.01 = 100, 1/0.001 = 1000, 1/0 = infinity. You CAN divide by zero, but the answer isn't useful for finite math.

    15. Re:magnetic by geobeck · · Score: 0

      My 8 year old asked why you can't divide by 0.

      Easy explanation: Division asks how many of the second number it takes to equal the first number. How many zeroes does it take to equal 1? or 100? or a googalplex? It doesn't matter how many zeroes you multiply together, you'll never get anything except zero.

      Which brings up a technical point that doesn't seem to be accounted for in arithmetic devices. "Zero divided by zero equals zero" is a valid expression; the only valid expression of division by zero.

      As a side note, years ago when I was taking my teaching degree, we had to take a basic Math class because some teacher in the city had told a kid that a number divided by zero equals zero. That kid's parents were mathematicians, and had a few choice words for the university that educated that teacher.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    16. Re:magnetic by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sigh. I showed her divide by zero error on a calculator.

      You explained to her she shouldn't do something because a machine can't do it either?

      I'd use the good-old-pie-fractions example. Take a pie. Divide it into two parts, explain that's dividing by two.
      Cut it again, so it's four parts. Explain you divided it by four.
      Cut twice more and ask how many pieces there are (that's how many you divided by).
      Now, give her the knife, and ask her to divide it into zero parts. Explain that's why she can't divide by zero... no matter how many times you cut, no matter how you approach it, you cannot end up with zero parts.

      Then, eat the pie and play fractions games with each piece.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    17. Re:magnetic by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Ah, this is perfect. Totally makes sense, compared to that far off high school algebra class, back in the early '80's. I mean, you'd think a football coach who'd played for the Browns would also be a decent math teacher, wouldn't ya!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    18. Re:magnetic by steelfood · · Score: 1

      The easy way to do that would've been to have given her a funny name. For example:

      Alison Wanda or Ivana Mandy or just Siloh.

      It would be even better if you could make it work with your surname, the way Jack Abramoff works well.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    19. Re:magnetic by mrsurb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem with "zero divided by zero equals zero" is that it is equally true that "zero divided by zero equals twelve". How many zeros does it take to equal zero? Zero, one, two, pi, anything. It's undefined. And here ends my first slashdot post where I am literally arguing over nothing.

    20. Re:magnetic by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Division asks how many of the second number it takes to equal the first number.

      I've never thought about division this way. That actually makes sense!

      Cool!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    21. Re:magnetic by geobeck · · Score: 1

      The problem with "zero divided by zero equals zero" is that it is equally true that "zero divided by zero equals twelve".

      Good point. So the correct answer to "zero divided by zero" would be {R}, the set of real numbers... or possibly the set that includes both real and imaginary numbers; not sure how they behave in regular arithmetic.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    22. Re:magnetic by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      It would be even better if you could make it work with your surname, the way Jack Abramoff works well.

      I'm one step ahead of you there, her name is Mindy. Mindy Flayer.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    23. Re:magnetic by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because they still ignore that the result (infinity) is i two-component result (much like complex numbers), but with the second component being (i guess) temporal.
      That way, you do not lose anything, and can still use formulas with infinity inside them, and get useful results too.

      In my eyes, zero and infinity (there are two types: the negative and the positive one, just like with zero) are in the same group.
      You could also see zero as some kind of infinity. Because you can go smaller and smaller, and never end getting smaller. But somehow, you still can end up a zero. (the limit).
      Same thing with infinity. You can still end up on infinity. It is still a useful result. But same as you write 0.0000001, you should also write numbers with infinity inside them. (maybe (inf).1000000?) dunno how you would write it though.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    24. Re:magnetic by Daimanta · · Score: 2, Funny

      2/0=inf.
      3/0=inf.
      2/0=3/0
      Multiply by zero:

      2=3

      If you can divide by zero, numbers make no sense. That's amazing you say, has somebody ever tried to divide by zero and did bad things happen as a result?

      Yes, do you remember the banking crisis of 2008, that's when 1 tiny bank accidentally divided by zero. Through the internet this ofcourse rapidly spread and soon numbers made no sense. Because they made no sense, the virtual money indicator flipped to negative. That's why your house has lost 50% of its value.

      The more you know.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    25. Re:magnetic by klaun · · Score: 1

      Just explain it like this... 1/1 = 1, 1/0.5 = 2, 1/0.1 = 10, 1/0.01 = 100, 1/0.001 = 1000, 1/0 = infinity. You CAN divide by zero, but the answer isn't useful for finite math.

      Except that isn't accurate. 1/0 != infinity. Does infinity * 0 = 1? No... of course not. Since multiplication is the inverse function of division... your statement is incorrect. Now if you'd written lim(x->0) of [1/x] is infinity, you'd have been right.

      x/0 for any non-zero number is simply undefined. Its not useful for transfinite math either.

      p.s. exceptions in linear algebra, abstract algebra, etc. generally involve different division operators from arithmetic.

    26. Re:magnetic by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Okay, but take your argument a step or two further: but 2!=3, therefore
      2/0 != 3/0, therefore

      2/0 is a different "infinity" than 3/0, which makes sense: 2/n never equals 3/n, so why should 2/0 == 3/0?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    27. Re:magnetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just explain it like this:

      You have one big, juicy apple pie. You want to divide that pie by four. Easy enough. Each of those four people get 1/4th of the pie.

      You want to divide that pie by two. Easy enough. Each of those two people get 1/2 the pie.

      You want to divide that pie by one, meaning, it's all yours. Easy enough. You get one whole pie!

      But what if there is nobody there to divide the pie with? Let's say someone got shot or run over by a hummer on their way to get the pie. If you divide that pie by zero people... ...never mind, that example worked out great in my head until I typed it out. I guess the owner of the pie would have to set it down and walk away, never to look back at the apple pie. In that case, the pie gets turned into some weird wave / particle entity where it infinitely exists and doesn't exist all at once. Sad.

    28. Re:magnetic by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Why don't you get a start on that. Let us know when you're done, and we'll peer review it ;)

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    29. Re:magnetic by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "...illuminate ..."
      you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means~

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    30. Re:magnetic by geekoid · · Score: 1

      meh, he is going to ART school. I'm not even sure how he got here~

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    31. Re:magnetic by Daimanta · · Score: 1

      Actually, that isn't neccesairy. Landing at an inconsistency with assumed premisses and a correct system, disproves the premisses. The second you land at 2=3 is the second that you know that dividing by zero is nonsense.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    32. Re:magnetic by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>2/0=3/0
      >>>Multiply by zero:
      >>>2=3

      Bzzz. 2/0 = 3/0 = infinity. Infinity * 0 == 0. This reminds me of a neat little trick my math teacher played in 11th grade. 0.9999 (to infinity) == 1.

      1/3 = 0.333 (to infinity)
      2/3 = 0.666 (to infinity)
      ===========
      1 = 0.999 (to infinity)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    33. Re:magnetic by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Actually, I dropped out of art school in '93. Turned out that, while I had no great design skills, I was great at fixing Macs in the computer lab. And at the print shops where student were always bringing in effed up layouts with missing font files. Next thing I knew, people were calling me, offering booze and money to get the shiny out of the machine or show them out to make Photoshop or Illustrator do what they wanted. Now, still with no degree, I'm a senior Macintosh analyst at a national lab that my crack the practical fusion problem. Yeah me!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    34. Re:magnetic by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Hey man, I read the whole one line post I was responding to. If that's not enough to comment on something, I don't even know where /. is headed.

      Seriously: I do feel dumb about that now, sorry to all of you who were confused there.

    35. Re:magnetic by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Pity the foo

    36. Re:magnetic by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Of course if the two of you eat the entire pie you end up dividing it by two and getting zero parts left so that may not be the safest way to go about this.

    37. Re:magnetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just eat the whole damn pie and end up with zero parts

      om nom nom

    38. Re:magnetic by spyingwind · · Score: 1

      if 2/2 = 1 and 1/1 = 1 then shouldn't 0/0 = 1, right?

      --
      GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper
    39. Re:magnetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I divide by zero all the time. It's great.

    40. Re:magnetic by fractoid · · Score: 1

      So, as the guy did with complex numbers, you say "nevertheless we shall proceed to operate", leaving the problematic entity as an algebraic value?

      So say, like calling sqrt(-1) 'i' and manipulating it algebraically, you call the value of 1/0 by some label. I shall arbitrarily choose 'fuck'. Then you have equations like:
      (a + 5) / 0 = 5
      Which rearranges to:
      (a + 5) * 1 / 0 = 5
      (a + 5) * fuck = 5
      a = 5 / fuck - 5
      a = 5 / (1/0) - 5
      a = 5 * 0/1 - 5
      a = -5

      ...holy shit, that worked O.o I was just making stuff up.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    41. Re:magnetic by fractoid · · Score: 1

      See my post above; if we abstract out 1/0 as a special constant (again, I've chosen to call it 'fuck') then it works.

      2/0 = 2 * 1/0 = 2 * fuck
      3/0 = 3 * fuck
      2/0 != 3/0.
      So there. :P
      (Yes, I'm aware that this is as mathematically rigorous as a duck-shaped pinata.)

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    42. Re:magnetic by ben0207 · · Score: 1

      Ah, si I see he used to work for Intel...

      --
      cmd-q.co.uk - some sort of stupid fucking internet bullshit
    43. Re:magnetic by Velex · · Score: 1

      As a side note, years ago when I was taking my teaching degree, we had to take a basic Math class because some teacher in the city had told a kid that a number divided by zero equals zero.

      A teacher once graded my little brother wrong on a test for saying that gravity gives things weight. The correct answer was supposed to have been air pressure.

      --
      Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
    44. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      ;)

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    45. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If there are 6 apples, and everyone gets two, how many people can share the apples? Three people. What if they can only have one apple? Then six people can share the apples.

      What if nobody can have any of the apples? Then nobody can share the apples, but the apples don't get eaten. That's why you can't divide by zero: the apples never get used up. In fact, you could have a hundred people, or a thousand, or as many as you want, and every one of them won't get an apple... and there will still be six apples.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    46. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Considering that a lot of adults give the wrong answer when asked to divide 6 by 1/2, I'd recommend finding a different way to explain it to an 8-year-old.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    47. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you got 0/0 = 5. Which, for some values of zero... wait. :p

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    48. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Think of it this way, though: in calculus, you can calculate limits, some of which go to infinity. Therefore, infinity is a useful concept. Take the limit as n approaches zero from the positive side:

      lim n -> +0 (3/n - 2/n)

      The limit goes to infinity. However, if you try to compute the value at n = 0, both terms are infinite - and subtracting them gives positive infinity, which indicates that they aren't the same (or it would equal zero).

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    49. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Actually, there's an even cooler way of showing that 0.9999... = 1.

      0.9999... * 10 = 9.9999...
      9.9999... - 0.9999... = 9
      in general, (n*10)-n = 9*n, so
      9 * (0.9999...) = 9
      0.9999... = 1

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    50. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Mathematically rigorous, no, but I do like the implication: fuck 3 times > fuck 2 times.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    51. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Except that isn't accurate. 1/0 != infinity. Does infinity * 0 = 1? No...

      ...and that's why they say "infinity is not a number". A value can be infinite, but it doesn't actually equal infinity, because no such number exists.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    52. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Well,

      lim n -> 0 (n/n) = 1

      lim n -> 0 (2n/n) = 2

      lim n -> 0 (n/3n) = 1/3

      Take your pick... there are plenty more where those came from.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    53. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      No, it would depend on the derivative of the expression that gave 0 at that particular point. If you evaluate 2/x at 0, you get division by zero. If you evaluate x/(x - 2) at x = 2, you get division by zero also.

      However, in one case the limit would give 0/1, or 0, whereas the second limit would give 1/1, or 1.

      l'Hôpital FTW!

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    54. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      The pie is a lie!

      Wait, that's not right... but it rhymed! Yey me!

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    55. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      2 a: to make clear : ELUCIDATE b: to bring to the fore : HIGHLIGHT <a crisis can illuminate how interdependent we all are>

      ...what?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    56. Re:magnetic by klaun · · Score: 1

      Except that isn't accurate. 1/0 != infinity. Does infinity * 0 = 1? No...

      ...and that's why they say "infinity is not a number". A value can be infinite, but it doesn't actually equal infinity, because no such number exists.

      Well, I'm not sure who you are identifying as saying that infinity is not a number, but unfortunately they are not correct. You're statement that two infinite values may not be equal certainly has validity to it. Transfinite mathematics and hyperreals deal with rigorous analysis of such things... and in that analysis treat infinities as both ordinal and cardinal numbers.

      I suggest that it is worth further investigation on your part if you are interested in making definitive statements about such things.

    57. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity

      In mathematics, "infinity" is often used in contexts where it is treated as if it were a number (i.e., it counts or measures things: "an infinite number of terms") but it is a different type of "number" from the real numbers.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    58. Re:magnetic by klaun · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity In mathematics, "infinity" is often used in contexts where it is treated as if it were a number (i.e., it counts or measures things: "an infinite number of terms") but it is a different type of "number" from the real numbers.

      I never said it was a real number. Although whether it is or not kind of depends on what kind of mathematics you are doing.

      Note in this context the phrase "real numbers" is referring to the set of Reals, as opposed to say the set of Imaginaries. Wikipedia is not saying that infinity is not really a number.

      In any case the quote you provide refers to infinity as a number. Just as a different type of number. Since the original assertion was that infinity was not a number, the quote refutes that assertion.

    59. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      It said "treated as if it were a number". It put "number" in quotes. Both of those indicate that it's not really a number, and the use of "real number" is a regrettable choice of words in attempting to express that.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    60. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Look, I'm not really contradicting you. Infinity is sometimes treated as if it were a number - it's sometimes convenient and useful to do so. However, that doesn't make it a number. So you're one of the people who's used to treating it as if it were a number - naturally you'll take exception when someone says it isn't.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    61. Re:magnetic by klaun · · Score: 1

      Look, I'm not really contradicting you. Infinity is sometimes treated as if it were a number - it's sometimes convenient and useful to do so. However, that doesn't make it a number. So you're one of the people who's used to treating it as if it were a number - naturally you'll take exception when someone says it isn't.

      Infinity is a number, full stop. What makes something a number? What is a number? A count of something? A quantity of something? That concept that expresses the count or quantity of something?

      Perhaps you could give me the count of real numbers? Or the count of integers? Alternately what is the quantity of elements in the set of reals? or the set of integers? Or natural numbers? Or computable numbers?

      Are you saying the count or quantity that answers the previous questions is not a number? Why not? What quality does it have that differentiates it from a number? What attribute can you ascribe to it that cannot be ascribed to a number?

      I certainly don't take exception with you assertion. To me, it just seems to be a limited understanding of the concept in question. My perception is that you have not indulged in a lot of introspection regarding how you arrived at your concept of a number and of infinity.

    62. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      "The count" doesn't exist if it is infinite. It's uncountable. It doesn't equal infinity; it's infinite. There's a subtle difference.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    63. Re:magnetic by klaun · · Score: 1

      "The count" doesn't exist if it is infinite. It's uncountable. It doesn't equal infinity; it's infinite. There's a subtle difference.

      I'm afraid you are digging yourself deeper here. I actually made a mistake in my previous post asking for a count of Real Numbers since the Reals are not countable... However, infinite sets in general are not uncountable. The other example, for counts that I gave, the integers are certainly a countable set. Rationals are another infinite and countable set. Wikipedia is your friend on what qualifies as countable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countable_set

      A count is only one quality of a number, denoting quantity is another... you seem to have totally disregarded that portion of my post. The countability argument actually touches on one of the more rigorous ways of defining a particular number in mathematics. For example what is 3? One way of looking at it is that it is the collection of sets that contain 3 elements. So in saying 3 (meant to denote "blackboard" bold) we are denoting the set of all sets that have 3 elements. So the number is itself a set. And sets contain 3 elements if they exist in the set 3.

      This provides a bit of clarity in why infinity is a number. Infinity in this view is the set of sets that contain an infinite count of elements. You can see that this way of defining numbers shows the equivalence of 3 and Infinity in terms of both having the quality of being a number.

      While this thread is diverting to an extent I think we've played it out. I leave you with a question, since you assert that infinity is not a number, what is the largest number?

    64. Re:magnetic by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Ok, I didn't realise "countable" could include a discrete infinite series. I was under the impression that it could only be used to refer to a finite set, part (1) from its definition in the Wiki...

      A set is countable if: (1) it is finite, or (2) it has the same cardinality (size) as the set of natural numbers.

      Anyway, moving on...

      what is 3? ... the collection of sets that contain 3 elements.

      That's not a number, that's a concept. "3" is a number. "Sets having 3 elements" is a concept - a rule which enables us to categorise something as "fits" or "doesn't fit". Thus, 3 can be thought of as either a number or a concept.

      "Infinity" is not a number; as a number, it doesn't exist. Only the concept exists: "Sets having an infinite number of elements". The reason for this is actually somewhat simple: infinity can have different magnitudes in different cases (I'm thinking of limits and l'Hôpital's rule). If infinity were a number, and A = infinity and B = infinity, then we should expect that A = B. With infinite values, this isn't necessarily the case.

      I leave you with a question, since you assert that infinity is not a number, what is the largest number?

      What's the smallest positive number? 1x10^-Infinity?

      Just because a question can be posed doesn't mean it has an answer.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    65. Re:magnetic by camperdave · · Score: 1

      But the actual premise in the argument is technically that 2/0 equals 3/0, not that dividing by zero is nonsense.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    66. Re:magnetic by Daimanta · · Score: 1

      The premisse is that a/0 equals infinity. That leads to 2/0=3/0 and that leads to the conclusion that 2=3 which is absurd. That's proof that you cannot divide by zero.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    67. Re:magnetic by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      *headbang*
      When's the lynching?

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
  6. Useful Lifespan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A "sticky-footed climbing robot destined to explore Mars" makes it sound like this thing may see use on the ground. I'm curious how they plan to deal with dust and debris collecting on the pads.

    They say "dirt particles can easily fall off the edge of the fibres", but I don't understand how a solution like this can be selective about what it sticks to.

    1. Re:Useful Lifespan? by Ohrion · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko dust and dirt that could prevent the van der Waals forces that geckos toes use, are removed within a couple steps due to "self-cleaning" properties. If they are able to reproduce the effect properly, the lifespan of the product could be quite significant.

    2. Re:Useful Lifespan? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      A "sticky-footed climbing robot destined to explore Mars" makes it sound like this thing may see use on the ground. I'm curious how they plan to deal with dust and debris collecting on the pads.

      Katamari Damacy on Mars?

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    3. Re:Useful Lifespan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do those "self-cleaning properties" of gecko feet involve a gecko tongue?

    4. Re:Useful Lifespan? by Chuckstar · · Score: 1

      Same way Geckos do.

    5. Re:Useful Lifespan? by TriZz · · Score: 1

      No. Then the foot wouldn't be self-cleaning, now would it?!

      --
      No matter how hot a girl is - some guy somewhere is sick of her shit.
    6. Re:Useful Lifespan? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      As long as it stays in the trees, and away from the white apes, it should be good.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  7. What next? by Ibag · · Score: 2, Funny

    A spider monkey inspired car horn set for space? A webkit inspired grapling hook set for space? Oh, the joy of open source browsers.

  8. For the environment by olddotter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For those that need a monetary reason to save the environment, this is a poster child. We can learn a huge amount of useful things from studying nature. If that nature is allowed to die out, then we will miss out on the hidden knowledge.

    1. Re:For the environment by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

      yea, that's what I was doing. Studying nature. Hidden knowledge and all that. Until they closed the curtains.

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    2. Re:For the environment by Rue+C+Koegel · · Score: 1

      but we're part of nature too. so we'd be dead too... so really the universe would probably be the only thing possible of missing anything, and from what it told me yesterday while we were out to dinner at DQ was that it wouldn't really miss anything since 1 in 14,000 planets in the verse could sustain some kind of life. though that life may not be nearly as amusing.

      --
      DON'T CAPITALIZE! CO-OPERATE! AND FREE EVERYTHING!
  9. Medical? by SnarfQuest · · Score: 2, Funny

    What sort of medical applications make use of post-it notes? Maybe it will hold an incision closed, but that floppy tag of paper is just too much for most prople to ignore.

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    1. Re:Medical? by mugnyte · · Score: 2, Funny

        Especially when your laceration has a shopping list on it. Maybe we can put the care instructions on the Post-It?

    2. Re:Medical? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Post it notes? None that I know of

      Medical glue? Alot. Father just had surgery from kneecap to groin, stitching near the upper thigh is not a good thing to do because of flexability? Solution? Glue. I could see this as acting as a temporary solution with modifications made.

    3. Re:Medical? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why did he have his kneecap moved to his groin? Seems you need to find another health care provider.

    4. Re:Medical? by fractoid · · Score: 3, Funny

      What sort of medical applications make use of post-it notes?

      Ones where the surgeon has more than one thing to do to you before stitching you shut?

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  10. sticking to spaceships... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    So easy, a caveman could do it!

  11. Silent Velcro. by RevWaldo · · Score: 1

    You lucky motherfucker.

  12. Yay Gecko Tape! by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ever since some years ago we read on /. that they had discovered the secret behind geckos' amazing abilities, I've been waiting for practical applications of this in the form of gecko tape and the soon-to-follow gecko shoes and gloves.

    Glad to see that they'll be using it in space soon, guess that means it'll only be a matter of time before I can get it at Home Depot. In the meantime, whenever I want something stuck to the wall, I just tie it to a gecko and then let the gecko do the sticking for me. Tough part is keeping them in one place, but ironically a little traditional glue does the job nicely. The other problem is I can only put things out of the reach of my cat...

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
    1. Re:Yay Gecko Tape! by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Tough part is keeping them in one place, but ironically a little traditional glue does the job nicely.

      In which case, you're using glue anyway.

      I find it's much simpler to use a staple gun to affix the geckos to the wall.

      I use the staples made for insulated wire, otherwise the staples go right through 'em and all you have to show for it is a perforated gecko twitching on the floor... which is the same result as within-reach-of-the-kitty gluing.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:Yay Gecko Tape! by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 2, Funny

      Now where's the Webkit-Inspired adhesive?

      Doesn't Webkit beat Gecko?

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    3. Re:Yay Gecko Tape! by Tmack · · Score: 1

      Ever since some years ago we read on /. that they had discovered the secret behind geckos' amazing abilities, I've been waiting for practical applications of this in the form of gecko tape and the soon-to-follow gecko shoes and gloves.

      ...

      Not to detract too much from your post... but Ive been using gecko tape and gloves for a few years now though probably not as advanced as the stuff in TFA:

      Greptile is 3m's name for it. I use handlebar tape made with it on my road bike, and before it went out of production (Seems to be only used for golf equipment and Nascar steering wheels these days), had the gloves to match. With the gloves on the tape it was like a weak velcro. Even with normal gloves it has more grip than normal tape.

      Tm

      --
      Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
    4. Re:Yay Gecko Tape! by kris_lang · · Score: 1

      Self-Cleaning Gecko Adhesive (Sep. 2008)

      First synthetic gecko adhesive which cleans itself during use, as the natural gecko does. After contamination by microspheres, the microfiber array loses all adhesion strength. After repeated contacts with clean glass, the microspheres are shed, and the fibers recover 30% of their original adhesion. The fibers have a non-adhesive default state, which encourages particle removal during contact.
      Contact Self-Cleaning of Synthetic Gecko Adhesive, Langmuir 2008

    5. Re:Yay Gecko Tape! by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      I've been waiting for practical applications of this in the form of gecko tape and the soon-to-follow gecko shoes and gloves.

      Interesting! I foresee height becoming less of a barrier, and barbed wire sales increasing.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  13. After testing failed... by Roskolnikov · · Score: 1

    Bat adhesive, Gecko adhesive found to stick well in space.

    --
    Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
  14. Also need a Gecko tongue by flyingfsck · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The next innovation required would be Gecko tongue to clean the dirty feet, else it won't go far.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:Also need a Gecko tongue by Spatial · · Score: 1

      Someone posted above that their feet are self-cleaning. He cited Wikipedia which cites this.

      If true, it could be a very useful material.

  15. Will this... by XaviorPenguin · · Score: 1

    ...save me 15% or more on car insurance if I switch to Gecko Tape from Scotch Tape?

    --
    Friends help you move...
    REAL Friends help you move dead bodies... ^_^
  16. Yeah, but does it run XUL? by dvh.tosomja · · Score: 1

    Oh wait, never mind...

  17. Re:What's going on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    This dry adhesive can't possibly be worse than the time I accidentally super-glued my hand to my penis. Don't ask ... just, don't ask. All I'll say is that the only thing worse would be super-glue eyedrops.

  18. Not firefox by Kashell · · Score: 1, Funny

    Read the headline and thought, "By George! Mozilla is using the Gecko rendering engine in space now?!"

    1. Re:Not firefox by gandhi_2 · · Score: 1

      ...the bad part is "Dry Adhesive" could actually be the name of a rendering engine. I read it the same as you, at first.

  19. Cooler than VanderWahl forces and Gecko feet by zymano · · Score: 1

    Is 'cold welding'. wikipedia has an article on it. Didn't know that you could weld without high heat. Oxides prevent it on our planet but in space satellites tend to weld themselves up.

  20. Ziggy Played Guitar by MaxwellEdison · · Score: 1

    A research group at his university, in collaboration with the European Space Agency, is engineering a spider-like, sticky-footed climbing robot destined to explore Mars

    Aha! David Bowie was just a visionary...The Spiders of Mars are on their way!

    --
    -=Bang Bang=-
    1. Re:Ziggy Played Guitar by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Gotta color em Purple then!

  21. First Use of the Product? by Gman14msu · · Score: 1

    And of course NASA's first use for the product will be........ Toolbox handles

    1. Re:First Use of the Product? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      nice.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  22. More gecko products for space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Next up, NASA is planning on trying to produce a way to mimic a gecko's ability to appeal to the American mass market sales channel to create actual funding for the space program.

  23. whaaat? by Ikyaat · · Score: 0

    so if suction cups, no matter the scale, work by decreasing the air pressure inside the cup to create a seal from the pressure outside the cup, how will they work in space? which to my knowledge has a lot less air pressure then earth?

    --
    "Luck is a tag given by the mediocre to account for the accomplishments of genius." -Heinlein
    1. Re:whaaat? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      They won't.

      ...this isn't based on suction, though.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  24. Dust by TheLink · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Do the current synthetic "gecko feet" self-clean like the real geckos?

    Mars is probably quite a dusty place.

    --
  25. Gecko-Inspired? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Am I the only one who thought at first glance the Mozilla Foundation was behind all this?

  26. From the Pun-Intended-Department by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really, wouldn't TFS be more worthwhile to read if it would make better use of obvious puns?

    [...] and it is also developing reusable attaching systems for astronauts to use where magnetic and suction systems generally suck.

    Sheesh ...

  27. other natural alternatives by motherpusbucket · · Score: 1

    Pus, ear wax, snot, phlegm, and toe-jam. All readily available and natural.

    --
    "You can't really dust for vomit" --Nigel Tufnel
  28. TOO LATE! by aqk · · Score: 0

    ..engineering a spider-like, sticky-footed climbing robot destined to explore Mars

    Sorry, but I saw one of these creatures at a stag party a coupla years ago - on film of course.
    It was apparently wearing the obligatory black socks and a tool belt. Please don't ask about the negligée-wearing blonde

    (Yes, this archaic ceremony is still observed by some of us older geeks.)

  29. inhalation hazard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if the feets break off, what happens to your lungs?

  30. Fearing Lab at UCB by kris_lang · · Score: 1

    Ron Fearing's lab at UC Berkeley also does work on biomimetic materials such as synthetic gecko pads:

    biomimetics lab

    has a link to their self-cleaning gecko adhesive material on the front page.

    Sorry about the prior post.

    Self-Cleaning Gecko Adhesive (Sep. 2008)

    First synthetic gecko adhesive which cleans itself during use, as the natural gecko does. After contamination by microspheres, the microfiber array loses all adhesion strength. After repeated contacts with clean glass, the microspheres are shed, and the fibers recover 30% of their original adhesion. The fibers have a non-adhesive default state, which encourages particle removal during contact.
    Contact Self-Cleaning of Synthetic Gecko Adhesive, Langmuir 2008

  31. UCB Fearing Lab by kris_lang · · Score: 1

    Ron Fearing's lab at UC Berkeley also does work on biomimetic materials such as synthetic gecko pads:

    his biomimetics lab

    has a link to their self-cleaning gecko adhesive material on the front page.

    Self-Cleaning Gecko Adhesive (Sep. 2008)

    First synthetic gecko adhesive which cleans itself during use, as the natural gecko does. After contamination by microspheres, the microfiber array loses all adhesion strength. After repeated contacts with clean glass, the microspheres are shed, and the fibers recover 30% of their original adhesion. The fibers have a non-adhesive default state, which encourages particle removal during contact.
    Contact Self-Cleaning of Synthetic Gecko Adhesive, Langmuir 2008