Project OXCART Declassified From Area 51

An anonymous reader sends this excerpt from the LA Times: "... the myths of Area 51 are hard to dispute if no one can speak on the record about what actually happened there. Well, now, for the first time, someone is ready to talk ... Colonel Hugh 'Slip' Slater, 87, was commander of the Area 51 base in the 1960s. Edward Lovick, 90, featured in 'What Plane?' in LA's March issue, spent three decades radar testing some of the world's most famous aircraft (including the U-2, the A-12 OXCART and the F-117). Kenneth Collins, 80, a CIA experimental test pilot, was given the silver star. Thornton 'T.D.' Barnes, 72, was an Area 51 special-projects engineer. And Harry Martin, 77, was one of the men in charge of the base's half-million-gallon monthly supply of spy-plane fuels."

Comments

The A-12 is better known as the SR-71

[Inominate]

For those unfamiliar, the A-12 is more commonly known as the SR-71. It's not exactly the same aircraft, the SR-71 being the later development, but anyone looking at an A-12 would immediately recognize it as an SR-71.

Re:The A-12 is better known as the SR-71

[jhesse]

The book "Skunk Works" by Ben Rich discussed a lot of this.
Basically, they hired AF pilots (on loan or retired). This stuff was all very top-secret and the CIA didn't want it to be widespread knowledge in the Air Force.

They did this for the U-2 program too, which was a CIA initiated aircraft.

Re:The A-12 is better known as the SR-71

[cvos]

This video about the secret history of silicon valley explains some of the technology behind electronic warfare, radar imaging, and secret air force planes. The content relevant to this article appears around the 30min mark.

E.T. believers will find nothing interesting, however military computer geeks will find it orgasmic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo

Re:The A-12 is better known as the SR-71

[Anonymous Coward]

No need to look it up. For anyone who knows RAF Mildenhall, the SR crews used to dorm in the building next to the 'Bird in Hand' pub, on the upper floor facing the base fence across the road. On the notice board outside the two rooms the 2 crew were assigned for their stay was a large cartoon. It showed the front of the plane with a couple of speech bubbles leading out of the cockpit, presumably from the pilot to his co.

The speech bubbles read something like this (well, it was more than 10 years ago when I read it)...

First bubble - "Here we are, on the edge of the atmosphere in space suits flying at more than twice the speed of sound for hours and hours. The cockpit is tiny, it's hot and uncomfortable. All the work we do and the air force - they treat us like shit."

Second bubble - "Yeah. Fucking champagnes warm again." (This line is verbatim - at least I remember that bit right.)

I think this proves that, unless the pilot was a complete nut job and talking to himself that there were two in the plane at any given time. They were great guys with a sense of humour to boot. What made it even more fun was one pilot in particular was well ofver 6-6, and the cockpit of the SR isn't the roomiest place on earth. Was probably him that penned the cartoon.

So - anyone tells you they crewed one, you can tell 'em that. Hah! Who needs a Wiki?

OXCART

[bcmm]

I always found the name "OXCART" creepy, because of the famous von Neumann quote "I am not sure that the miserable thing can work, nor that it can be gotten to the target except by oxcart", referring to the weight of the atom bomb.

Re:OXCART

[LenE]

You are referring to the YF-12A, which did fly and successfully launch an air-to-air guided missle, while flying at mach 3.2 at 74,000 feet, hitting a target drone flying at 500 feet altitude. Amazing, given the state of electronics and guidance technology at the time. Hell, all of the technology for the A-12 / YF-12 / SR-71 is still amazing today.

Anyway, the YF-12 was acknowledged and publicized so it could be used as a cover for the similar A-12 and follow-on RS-71 planes. It wasn't much of a stretch to think that we had ever-faster interceptors, but a stratospheric, Mach 3+ spy plane? That was science fiction. The RS-71 was re-named the SR-71 after Lyndon Johnson flubbed the name on live television. They changed all drawings and documents for the program, an amazingly expensive waste of tax-payers dollars, just so that no one would have to correct the Commander in Chief.

-- Len

I believe it

[schmidt349]

If you were a government agency in charge of secret weapons testing, what better cover could you possibly come up with than implausibility? It may not have fooled the Soviets, but it sure fooled the American public. Nowadays Area 51 is usually mentioned in the same breath as JFK and Elvis' retirement community.

It would be interesting to check the Soviet archives and see what they thought was going on in Area 51.

Re:I just find it amazing

[Dun Malg]

Satellites in a predictable orbit are much easier to shoot down than the Blackbird (it was done last by an F-15 in 1985). For that reason alone, I am sure the SR-71's that are 'mothballed' are far from retired.

The real problem with satellites is that the predictable orbit allows the enemy to hide his shit when they're overhead.

And I think it more likely that the SR-71 is retired, and that there is "something else" available. The fact that all the airframes are accounted for and only the few NASA airframes are airworthy pretty much makes it unlikely they're still being used. If you look at the history of the multiple retirements of the SR-71 at the AIr Force's request, it becomes fairly obvious that there is something else. All the noise about how "we have no replacement" seems to come from congressmen, who despite their hamfisted attempt to insert themselves into the "classified" military budget process, are really a bunch of dumbass rubes who would spill the beans, so it's unsurprising the DoD has done what they could to keep them out of the loop.

Re:Anyone else dissapointed?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is anyone else dissapointed? Not that there were no aliens, or super-secret spyplanes, but that the mystery is lost? Area 51 was the fuel for imagination, the "what if" moments that it gave rise to. I, for one, shall miss the curiosity and sence of wonder when looking at the photographs and just imagining....

We're reading about things that were built 50 years ago.

If you want the sense of wonder back, ponder what they're doing now.

And keep your ears open for sonic booms tracking over California in the general direction of Nevada over the past few years.

Re:Nothng new here

[MrKaos]

There's still a big USAF black budget, and it doubled during the Bush years. The question is whether much useful is coming out.

If the US was operating the SR-71 Blackbird, an aircraft that is using 25% of it's engine power, to *cruise* at mach 3 almost 40 years ago I would have little doubt that it's replacement is at least twice as fast. One thing is for certain I doubt we will know what the actual capabilities are for another couple of decades.

This replacement aircraft is allegedly the SR-91 Aurora. I recently watched a documentary by a reporter from a Jane's Defence Weekly who showed weather satellite image of a 'doughnut on a rope' contrails starting at Groom Lake, extending across the United States, over the Pacific Ocean and out of camera range of the the satellite. The conjecture is that the aircraft has been in service for many years and powered by Pulse Detonation Engines. Estimates from an examination of the photo suggests the aircraft was moving at roughly Mach 8.

The development budget was apparently concealed in the budget for the B-2, who knows if it's true but I'd say that the existence of the SR-91(?) Aurora(?) if far more likely than little grey men. Then again who really knows anything in super secret compartmentalised spy world, I'm just a geek who'd one day like to see the technology involved. Here are some more links for those interested.