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The FBI Has a Trojan To Watch You
G_of_the_J writes "A man who had cut 18 cables affecting Verizon and Comcast was blackmailing them. He had demanded bank accounts be set up and information be provided on web sites that he specified. Although he used anonymous access to get to the web sites, the FBI had planted a trojan which was downloaded to his computer. The trojan then sent his IP address and other information to the FBI."
... if he was stupid enough to visit the "private" website they created for him with such a lax security setup that his computer willingly installed the FBI's trojan.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
He can spoof ips yet he can't install software to detect unwanted outbound traffic?
Idiot.
According to the complaint filed against Kelly, he believed that "companies like Comcast and Verizon were indirectly responsible for his unemployment and dire financial situation because they worked with companies that favored foreign engineers over their counterparts and because they had indirectly stolen his intellectual property."
As part of his sentence in late 2005, Kelly was also ordered to enter a mental health program.
No parole? He might be a silly muppet, possibly crazy, but treatment sounds more reasonable than prison. Or am i just a European speaking to an American ; ).
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
*unless you tried to blackmail someone over the internet and they call in the FBI, who then - with the authority of a warrant - use a Trojan to find out where you are. Seriously, how stupid is this guy?
TFA says the FBI had a warrant. When that is the case, I *want* them to be able to own a suspect's machine.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Doesn't seem like it was too complex. Sounds like they simply used some sort of drive-by download to install it on his system, and the program simply phoned home with the infected computer's IP address, MAC address, and a few other identifying pieces of info.
Dude was a bad guy. FBI's job is to catch bad guys. FBI uses technology to catch bad guy. I'm not feeling the outrage here...
In a related story, local law enforcement shot a criminal who tried to hold up a 7-11 when he resisted arrest and brandished a knife. Reports say police used their "gun" technology to do this.
Point being, we know the FBI has the tech to do this stuff. It's only really a rights issue when they use it against non-criminals, or suspected criminals.
Something is seriously wrong when you have to explicitly state, "The FBI did not commit any crimes in this story." When I read the summary, I felt that the warrant was implied, but with everything that has happened, I also feel that you are completely justified to think that that info was missing.
I think it's an interesting story, but sure ... if a warrant was obtained first, the FBI actually did this the RIGHT way, and that makes me happy.
That's how law enforcement is supposed to work. Sometimes it seems like we completely forget that, these days, with all the stories of "the law" just doing whatever they please, secretly.
Actually, the FBI can't tell the difference between a criminal and a suspected criminal. In the U.S., it takes a jury (or a guilty plea) to do that.
I think your point though is that it's not a violation of someone's rights if the FBI has reasonable evidence *before* they install the Trojan, and it appears they did in this case (because they had a warrant).
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
I would assume he was found not guilty due to mental defect. If not I would be very afraid as his sentence reaks of the thought police. Sadly there is instances now of people's sentences being sent to "fix" their way of thinking.
It's worth noting that in order to use CIPAV, the FBI has to get court approval after explaining how the software can help stop a crime.
Like that stopped them from wiretapping without a warrant.
Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
Flamebait, seriously? We had a whole debate about this last summer, and some members of Congress actually argued that the President has a Constitutional prerogative to use whatever intelligence gathering methods he wants as long as he has a plausible argument that we're "at war."
Note, that it doesn't particularly matter that the President argued he had Constitutional prerogative, presidents always assert that they have more power than they actually have. But Congress is supposed to be a branch of government competing with the President for power, they have incentives to check him instead of enable him.
So it isn't flamebait at all to note that warrants are questionable protection when it comes to surveillance activities.
My Karma is already excellent, I'm not afraid to burn it just to make a point as well. I was simply taking a shot at Federal Government and making a point they (as in all of the three-letter-agencies) have done shady business in the past and just because they were court-approved in their dealings for THIS situation, what makes you think they've done it for every other?
Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
Yeah, it's sad that law enforcement actually doing their job the RIGHT way is news.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
We had a whole debate about this last summer, and some members of Congress actually argued that the President has a Constitutional prerogative to use whatever intelligence gathering methods he wants as long as he has a plausible argument that we're "at war."
The problem is that as far as the government is concerned, they are always at "war". Presently you can count the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as all the wars against US citizens, including, but not limited to, the global war on terror, and the war on drugs, and apparently, the war on privacy.
Maybe also when attempting a criminal act, don't use your own machine, and don't use the same machine twice.
The article indicates that warrants were requested and issued each time they used this. It would be rather useless for the trojan to inject other malware onto a system that the FBI was likely to seize said equipment shortly after the trojan was planted.
This doesn't concern me in the slightest as long as they continue to follow the law and request a warrant to plant this trojan. If your a law abiding citizen, then you should never show up on their radar and I see this as no different than a blackmail case where they bugged someone's phone with a warrant or put them under 24/7 observation. I would imagine they injected the trojan via the web site that the guy demanded Verizon set up for him via some known (or unknown) exploit.
The two known instances of the FBI using this were both done via warrant (this one in 2005 and the latest in 2007).
That's not to say they don't use this elsewhere, but any person on the internet should consider their activities traceable no matter what hoops they go through. Especially when the telecoms willingly rolled over when requested by the government and most folks get their internet access via said telcoms.
Okay, so if the government wages "the war on privacy" by using invasive techniques, and is justified in doing so by saying "we're at war," then there's obviously no privacy, right?
So can we say they've won the war on privacy, declare the war over, and thereby rescind the powers it used to wage such a war?
Whoa. Headspins. Gotta sit down.
And don't use windows at all.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
#1 There was a warrant for the wiretapping.
#2 The guy really did something wrong and against the law.
#3 He was stupid enough to click on whatever installed the trojan.
#4 He was stupid enough to cut Internet cables and demand blackmail and ransom from the ISPS.
We'll just call it an Own Goal for this guy whomever he is.
As long as the majority of the population who don't do these things aren't domestically spied on, it should be alright.
If the FBI wants to see what my Traveller RPG group is doing, we could use another Game Master and a few more players as our Game Master is working a job that requires him to travel and cannot GM any more and a few players had quit. No need to plant a trojan on our computers and read our email.
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