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Vatican To Build 100 Megawatt Solar Power Plant
Karim Y. writes "The Vatican is going solar in a big way. The tiny state recently announced that it intends to spend 660 million dollars to create what will effectively be Europe's largest solar power plant. This massive 100 megawatt photovoltaic installation will provide enough energy to make the Vatican the first solar powered nation state in the world! 'The 100 megawatts unleashed by the station will supply about 40,000 households. That will far outstrip demand by Pope Benedict XVI and the 900 inhabitants of the 0.2 square-mile country nestled across Rome's Tiber River. The plant will cover nine times the needs of Vatican Radio, whose transmission tower is strong enough to reach 35 countries including Asia.'"
...about the Father, the Sun, and the Holy Ghost here.
Rock is dead. Long live scissors and paper!
Holy megawatts Batman!
~~"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~~Dennis Miller
Now that we've dealt with that...
So, how exactly are we planning to run them six million over budget, here?
If they need extra power on certain days, they could just have the sun stop in the sky for a while.
"You see, Government is a system that is based on weapons." -- Timster
Putting Jesus through college?
So it appears that the Marketing department has won once again. After ~2000 years they have decided to 'freshen things up a little'. Looks like Buddy Christ lost.
So now that the Vatican is a Solar sect, does that mean using sunblock SPF-50 is a sin?
Skin cancer the new stigmata?
Remember kids; everything old is new again, I'm just waiting for my Leisure Suits to come back into style.
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
God got tired of Satan bragging about his "all naturally-environmentally-powered controlled climate system" so he upped the ante a bit.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
As I recall (and Wikipedia backs it up, FWIW), Vatican Radio may not be such a good example of a successful, well-received project. It takes a lot of juice to pump a radio signal from Italy to Asia, and from what I've heard, the folks who live nearby aren't too happy about it. Take the debate over cell phone (non-ionizing) radiation, and multiply it by a few megawatts.
OTOH, maybe it's a final solution to the problem: buy out everyone living near the tower, and replace the whole swath of land with solar concentrators. It's, um, brilliant!
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
And all this time I thought the Vatican ran on a 12 volt Interstate Battery recharged by some monk on a bicycle.
Whew, thanks for the correction.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Asia is not a country, you silly people! You're thinking of Africa.
Regards,
Sarah P.
I'm guessing that Vatican City is connected to Italy's power grid - passing the collection plate isn't the only way to make $$.
Or, we could RTFA, and find:
Why else did God set the Sun in orbit around the Earth?
Solar PV is one of the least efficient ways to take money and make the world greener. As a charitable organization, the Vatican could get 50x the MWH offsets per buck by giving away efficient lighting, or if that is too abstract it could get 3x the MWH offset per dollar by buying new fridges for the poor who have old fridges from 1990 and earlier. Those fridges from the past use 2-3 times the energy per year that a modern one does, and so it is much greener if the Vatican buys them for the poor and uses grid power itself rather than putting up wasteful solar panels.
Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
There will be a lot more people dying prematurely from starvation and other avoidable causes if global warming isn't checked. That aside, its hardly as if the Roman Catholic Church is uninvolved in feeding or providing medical care to the needy. On the more general "platform" issue, one could RTFA:
...is not a country.
Thankyou! Nor is South-East Asia a state. I know - I can see it from my balcony.
I'm a software visionary. I don't code.
This is a job for Sol Invictus.
The Catholic church is widely regarded to be the most wealthy organization in the world, by a long shot.
Personally, I'm happy to see them put it to work a bit, especially after seeing the Cuzco Church of Santo Domingo literally COVERED in gold and silver and the royal grandeur that is Saint Peter's Square. Add together the rest of the real estate, hard assets, art, donations, low cost of labor, etc, etc and you have a truly mighty organization that can do a lot more than it is. I swear, I saw both Cuzco and the Vatican years ago, and the wealth still boggles my mind.
Personally, I'm happy to see that money actually doing something other than contributing to opulence. I think they should be doing much more of this investment.
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
In Vatican, sun orbit YOU!
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Damnit, there goes the production capacity of Nanosolar Inc. for ANOTHER two years. Cheap solar cell retail availability gets shooooved to the right to ------> 2012.
<Godwin>First those damn Germans bought up all their production, attempting to perpetuate their Fourth Reich!<tinfoilhat>Now it's a conspiracy to preempt and prevent micro-generation!</tinfoilhat></Godwin>
Of course, with the pope's uncanny resemblance to Emperor Palpatine, I can't resist the thought of hearing, upon completion of the 100 MegaWatt facility, the words: "NOW YOU WILL WITNESS THE POWER OF THIS FULLY OPERATIONAL BATTLE STATION!"...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
... the Vatican is building a solar power plant in Italian territory, subsidized by Italian money, to export energy to Italy? That seems like a good deal.
Quote: "Solar PV is one of the least efficient ways to take money and make the world greener." I would like to see some reference to that claim, because it's totally wrong. PV solar is getting VERY close to the tipping point of being economically viable (2015 projected date), when compared with fossile based technologies. It's the ONLY green technology (besides, conservation) to be that close.
Proof?
There's an Oasis in Egypt that's drying up. (Siwa? Can't remember exactly) Once it's gone, all the people living there will either have to move or die.
There's plenty of proof out there. Global warming may not be globally bad, but it sure is shitty for quite a few countries. If you can't see that, you're a buffoon.
For some reason I think I've read that were Jupiter a star at its present size, if such a thing were even possible, at the distance to the earth it wouldn't be too horrible. The closest approach between Jupiter and Earth places is nearly twice as far as the Sun is from Mars. It might jack up the temperature by a degree and melt all the icecaps on earth, but other than that, it wouldn't be too big of a deal...
This is my sig.
> The Vatican is going solar in a big way. The tiny state recently announced that it intends to spend 660 million dollars to create what will effectively be Europe's largest solar power plant.
For only 6 million dollars more they can add an option to generate power from the conversion of pure evil.
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
You and the GP are both looking at it wrong. It costs $660 million dollars now, but it cuts the Vatican's power bill to zero, and the spare power can be sold to Italy at the market rate, resulting in a significant financial win for the Vatican. The money saved is money that can then be spent on humanitarian projects around the world. Over the expected life of the panels, the money the Church could spend should be far greater and can do far more good than spending the $660 on humanitarian causes up front.
It's like the people who suggested that the Church should sell all its properties (which some have estimated at on the order of $1-2 trillion dollars) and spend the money on the poor. The problem is that there are an estimated 963 million people in the world who are hungry, so even if you could feed them all for a net cost of only a dollar a day, the assets would last only about 3-6 years. Given the scale involved, a more realistic cost estimate would put that closer to 6 months. And, of course, when the money runs out, those hungry people would still be dirt poor, but there wouldn't be any more money coming in without congregants putting money in the collection basket every week. Thus, beyond a very short term view, that would be a foolish thing to do.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
This is the Vatican we're talking about. What the hell are you doing telling them 'there's no proof of this'? It's never stopped them before.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
I know there are batteries but what size of batteries or what storage setup would be employed in banking the power captured during the day for use during night time?
It costs $660 million dollars now, but it cuts the Vatican's power bill to zero, and the spare power can be sold to Italy at the market rate, resulting in a significant financial win for the Vatican. The money saved is money that can then be spent on humanitarian projects around the world.
By that argument, the Vatican should operate a casino, sell storage silos for nuclear waste in the catacombs beneath Vatican City, open a brothel, and spend the profits on humanitarian projects around the world.
John
but it cuts the Vatican's power bill to zero, and the spare power can be sold to Italy at the market rate, resulting in a significant financial win for the Vatican.
This would only be a "significant financial win" if the money gained by selling electricity in a reasonable time frame (say, 15 years) not only covered the cost of the panels and their maintenance, but paid more than a safe investment.
If this were the case, there would be capitalists all over the world assembling massive solar arrays for electricity production.
The only way the Catholic Church is worth a hundred billion of anything is when you calculate its worth in Lira.
Sorry, but nope. Catholic church is very wealthy... here's a pic of the solid gold alter in Cuzco... the picture does it absolutely no justice ... and there's probably 5 times more gold than in this pic and an equal amount of silver (this pic is not mine; I don't know who this pic belongs to; they don't let you take pics inside the church, so this person committed a bit of sacrilege by taking this)
And I'd say the items contained in this photo are worth a few bucks.
In terms of net worth, they are very clearly rich.
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
It's something I often wonder about, actually: what's their excuse for anything beyond utilitarian buildings and equipment?
I'm sure it's fun having huge chunks of gold around the place, but when their religious text contains categorical denunciation of wealth it strikes me as odd.
it down that big cesspool we call Congress here in the states. At least the Vatican isn't building war machines with it. They are one of the largest charities in the world taking care of more people regardless of politics. Can't say that about any government. How much is poured into the UN and for what good? Yeah they have had their bad times but what organization throughout the history of man hasn't? At least they move forward.
They run nearly 6000 hospitals, 9000 orphanages, and tens of thousands of facilities for the elderly and sick that get passed over by governments. How is that really a bad thing? Is the view of contempt simply because they are a religious organization?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
BOLGIAS 8 AND 9, Rome, Monday — The Vatican intends to build the biggest renewable energy plant in Europe, running solely on guilt.
"Now is the time to strike," said Cardinal Giovanni Lajolo, governor of Vatican City. "The financial crisis has unleashed huge and renewable sources of guilt, which in the long run will reap incomparable rewards for the Church."
Italy has a binding target for renewable energy consumption of 17 percent. The Vatican will export energy to Italy, powered by raw guilt from the largely Catholic populace. "So far it's proven indefinitely renewable."
Pope Benedict XVI has been outspoken on environmental issues. "The destruction of the environment, its improper or selfish use and the violent hoarding of the Earth's resources cause grievances, conflicts and wars, precisely because they are the consequences of an inhumane concept of development. You should FEEL BAD about that. And give us money."
The plant will be topped up at night by Dante-esque treadmills walked by priests sent back for kiddy-fiddling. "We feel terrible, terrible," said Fr O'Pederast. "I mean, we got caught."
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Repton.
They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
When God tells you to do something, don't do it by half measure. Seems that people are reading more into that passage than was intended.
Which really isn't surprising.
---- Liquid was a patriot ----
What do you think it takes to power a private hotline to God ?!
Uhhh walmart made 405Billion dollars last year. Unless you just assume all the stuff the catholic church owns are priceless you are way off. They have the most wealth that is not producing maybe. But that is like seeing a guy smoking weed out of a 100$ bill and assuming he's richer than the guy with a 500$ car from 1988.
Not that I don't appreciate all the art, I frigging loved my trip to Rome and taking a tour of the vatican you definately get the feeling that they have more culture and art than most countries. I saw more art and culture in 3hours inside the vatican than I most people see over 5 maybe 10 years in North America.
I'm surprised they never thought to harness the prodigious amounts of HOT AIR they produce, to harvest energy from.
Typically, solar panels pay for themselves in 10 years, but if you read the article, you'd find that they haven't decided how much to do with photovoltaic cells and how much to do with turbine-based systems. The latter is quite profitable, and there are many commercial power providers that operate in this space.
I'm assuming, therefore, that most of this money will be spent on solar turbines, in which case it would be a very good investment. The typical ROI on solar turbine systems is close to 100% in the first year, so if you reinvest in new solar turbine systems in other places every year, until you hit market saturation, you have the potential for nearly guaranteed exponential growth.
Even if they go with PV, though, I should note that I wasn't comparing solar to other investments, only to spending the money up front. And even with PV cells, going solar has some nice side effects---as someone else noted, in the long term, reducing our environmental impact reduces the amount of money needed to feed the hungry. It's hard to say whether PV cells would be a good idea or not. It isn't throwing money away by any stretch of the imagination, but solar turbine systems would be much, much smarter.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Actually, on looking further, I think my source for that ROI figure is probably pretty unreliable. Does anybody have figures from broad deployments?
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
This is why, for example, the Catholic church prohibits contraception; it makes the church grow more quickly.
Hardly. Here is the argument:
1) God created nature, and nature was good. Thus, the law of nature, or "natural law", is good and God-created, and must not be broken. Therefore, things that are "unnatural", or break the law of nature, are evil.
2) In natural law, the purpose of sex is procreation. Thus, anything that interferes with that is evil, such as masturbation or birth control.
The first is pretty commonly accepted, but by no means universal, even by those who disagree on the Catholic church's position. To see one case where this plays out, most people's response to homosexuals is, "Ew, gross. That's just wrong. It's not natural." A large number of peoples aversions fall into this category.
Also realize that the Christian church grew out of the Jewish religion, where "spilling one's seed" or other non-procreative sexual acts were condemned, since that was not Yahweh's purpose for sex.
Suffice it to say, the argument is usually one about what is "natural" or not. If, however, you can argue against natural law being God's law, then that works too.
It was not until recently that sex for non-procreative purposes was determined "natural" by the Anglican church, and then once one had taken the plunge, almost every other denomination followed. The Catholic church has a hierarchy that creates immense inertia, which is why their official stance has not changed, even though many of their members do not agree with it.
Of course, at various times, there were other things that supported the church's opinion. For example, at one point in time, it was believed that a sperm contained a fully formed human being, which was just housed by the woman until birth, and so prevention of conception was tantamount to killing an unborn person, which is murder.
He here argues that the purpose of semen is only to be emitted for reproduction
Honest question. Does he then argue that men shouldn't have sex with their wives when they are pregnant? Wasted seeds...
As a Catholic, I often have people remind me that many of our traditions are not mentioned in the bible. An example would be giving up something for lent. It is useful to remember that the early Christians did not have a written Bible to work off of, and so their worship practices were based off of tradition. On other words, we Catholics don't find anything wrong with continuing traditions that were established a long time ago even if they aren't in the bible. This is not an answer to your contraception question. I'm just trying to point out that just because something isn't in the bible doesn't mean that we can't practice or believe it.
Holy Trinity isn't mentioned in the Bible either... The "it's not in the Bible" argument doesn't apply to the Catholic Church since it doesn't subscribe to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. Besides, if the Church simply wanted more members, why are they against non Catholics using contraception too? If they want more members, why do they not permit infertile couples from using artificial fertilization procedures? The Church teaches that sex and reproduction go hand in hand. That isn't to say that all sex that doesn't result in fertilization is sinful, but there must not be an attempt to interfere with the process of fertilization (whether using condoms, chemicals, outercourse, etc).
I'm sure it's fun having huge chunks of gold around the place, but when their religious text contains categorical denunciation of wealth it strikes me as odd.
Ahem...
"And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head."
"And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made? For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her."
"And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me. For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always. She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying. Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her"
It's something I often wonder about, actually: what's their excuse for anything beyond utilitarian buildings and equipment?
I can't say for Catholics, but Russian (and, so far as I know, other) Orthodox churches are even more lavishly decorated, and there the explanation is that it is to better highlight the glory of God, particularly to laity. So priests don't go around in gold-trimmed clothing all the time, but only when they perform priestly services. All the wealth is seen as belonging to God, ultimately, not to his servants.
Of course, this doesn't stop the Russian Patriarch from riding around on the best car money can buy...
Trouble is, the peak power from a solar cell is in the summer - just the time when everybody's lightbulbs and central heating systems spend most of the time off,
And when the demand for AC is greatest.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I've been to church 'once or twice'. Which is how I know that: Revenge (Capitol Punishment), War Mongering (Kill the Terrorists!), Intolerance (Kill the Fags!), Greed (Cut assistance to impoverished families!) and the other trappings of the modern American conservative movement are at odds with a man who disavowed wealth, taught humility and generosity.
If we were to really follow in Christ's steps we would be a bunch of hippy communists who give up everything we have to serve those most in need.
There's a terrible irony that the conservative movement has attached itself to the most inhumane and socially unconsciounable platforms while simultaneously claiming some sort of divine ordination.
Can you see Jesus waterboarding terrorists? Can you see Jesus cutting health insurance for children? Can you see Jesus denying a group of people the right to marry and interfering in state affairs? Can you see Jesus lobbying Pilot to pass laws to exclude a group of people from Roman Life? Can you see Jesus suggesting that we shouldn't talk to enemies? Can you see Jesus advocating toxic dumping and pollution because it's "not financially vaible to be stewards of the earth?". Can you see Jesus mocking the environmental movement for wanting to protect his creation? Can you see Jesus mocking doves and calling them "silly spineless liberals". Can you see Jesus wanting to have anything to do with Rush Limbaugh? Can you see Jesus wanting anything to do with Sean Hannity?
The conservatives have claimed God in the US. But if there is a Jesus and Lord then he's got to be pissed with what they're doing with his supposed endorsement.
If there were ever a sign that Jesus was back I would think that sign would be water vanishing all over the world.
How many people do you know who wouldn't be asking Jesus to turn water into wine within the first 5 minutes of meeting him ?
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
Just because a practice or belief is held for religious reasons does not make it right, justified, or even harmless.
Tradition and doctrine do not cut it as tools to manage your civilization in the face a of rapidly changing environmental, sociological and technological landscape. Worse, they get used as a special pass to justify the continuance of practices that would otherwise be considered wasteful, foolish or even barbaric.
Have you ever tried to walk 72 miles in a day? Even back in my infantry days I would have called you nuts.
One mile every 20 minutes (one km every 12 min for most of you) is actually quite brisk, and pretty fatiguing over 2 or 3 hours, let alone 24. Factor in time to eat, drink, change socks, cover blisters, relieve your self, etc, and you are looking at having to run-walk to keep that kind of pace.
While actual athletes may be able to do more, I would put the absolute limit for a fit person at around 40 miles in 24 hours if the person must carry nothing, the weather is neither too hot nor too cold and the person is very motivated. A fit person could comfortably walk around 18 miles in a day, and 12 miles per day at a sustained rate.
For the overwhelming majority of humanity (with the possible exceptions of Kenyans...) 72 miles in a 24 hour period is simply not possible.
In the case at hand, the site is 27 kilometers (a little more than 18 miles) from the Vatican.
weirdest thing I ever saw: scientology advertising on slashdot.