Windows 7 Starter Edition — 3 Apps Only

CrustyFace writes "Cybernit reports that the Starter Edition version of Windows 7 will only allow the user to run 3 applications at once. Targeted at notebooks, this doesn't seem like such a bad limitation, however it is a bold move from Microsoft, and it will be interesting to see how the operating system sells."

Comments

Bad user experience, piracy or Linux will win out.

[peterdaly]

Artificial limitations like this seem to me to be an invitation for problems and end user frustration.

What is an application?

Are tool tray apps possible, or allowed?

What about apps that launch other apps as part of their functionality?

Would Chrome be limited to two tabs? (One for the host window, two and three for the first two tabs.)

I would say this is an invitation for piracy, but if it really is intended for netbooks, most consumers would find it very hard to install a new OS on a computer with no cd drive. It will make users angry, although potentially limit things on machines with small amounts of RAM.

If it's intended for developing countries, I suspect piracy (or Linux) will win out.

What constitues an app?

[JerryLove]

Sadly, I cannot follow the link from here at work: but my first question is "what's an app?" Make it too broad and your anti-virus and IM client leave you with only one. Make it to narrow and it's an easy to circumvent limitation

Re:What constitues an app?

[Vu1turEMaN]

Anything that has a tab on the taskbar. The tray and background processes don't count.

In other words, we'll soon see more apps running as services soon. I bet uTorrent will be one of the first lol

Re:What constitues an app?

[Opportunist]

And IM? And Skype? And WiFi connection managers that come with various WiFi cards? Same for Graphics, Sound and other cards? I could well see that the various "manager" programs that come bundled with cards and periphery could easily account for three applications. Hell, the random crap you get bundled with the average notebook spawns ten applications nobody needs or wants, easily.

Does that mean that a HP or Dell notebook will start and display "sorry, your maximum amount of apps is already running" even before it's done booting?

Severe foot trauma

[Kell Bengal]

This is pretty blatantly defective by design. I can see a lot of people (especially less sophisticated users) being caught out by this when they discover that they can't run outlook, internet explorer, media player -and- messenger all at the same time. Or will Windows apps that are 'part of the os' going to be excluded from those three programs? I think MS's gun is pointed firmly at its downward.

3 apps is more than enough.

[Razalhague]

Really, nowadays you can do practically everything with just your browser. It's the new emacs.

You must mean the iPhone

[tepples]

Apple corporation has said it will release a version of OS X that will allow only one application to run at a time

Apple already released such an operating system in 2007. I think it's called "iPhone OS".

Re:You must mean the iPhone

[Major Blud]

I'm really surprised to hear this. I had an HTC Apache with Windows Mobile 6. I pretty much had to follow this daily ritual: 1) Constantly closing background apps to keep the phone from crawling to a snails' pace. 2) Rebooting the phone at least 3 times daily. 3) Having to turn-off 3G to make sure I would get more than 4 hours of battery life. 4) Turn off any form of push e-mail whatsoever. See #3. Keep in mind that this was with the regular first-party MS apps included with the OS (IE, Notepad, etc). Everyone I've talked to that has had a Windows Mobile phone has had the same experience. Either you're really lucky, or you've got some magic touch that the rest of us desperately needed.

Re:You must mean the iPhone

[timeOday]

So, why does the story submitter think an OS appropriate for an iPhone is appropriate for a notebook? Personally, I do a fair amount of scientific computation and software development and haven't used a desktop in years. The main issue has always been HDD performance, but now with SSD drives even that isn't true any more. I've got 4 GB RAM, a dual core 2.8 GHz CPU, and two fast SSD drives in a small package that runs all day on a charge (Thinkpad T400). On my office desk it connects to a 30", 2560x1600 external display. I never agree with all the postings I read on slashdot that "laptops are supposed to only be used for this or that." A 3 app limit would be a joke. I wouldn't even tolerate that in my Windows VM that I run on my notebook, while it is also running numerous apps on the linux side.

Re:You must mean the iPhone

[Chrutil]

Personally, I do a fair amount of scientific computation and software development...
A 3 app limit would be a joke. I wouldn't even tolerate that in my Windows VM that I run on my notebook

You sound more like a power user. Perhaps you are not the target for the "Starter Edition" of the OS?

Re:You must mean the iPhone

[causality]

This is about netbooks, not notebooks with 4 GB RAM, a dual core 2.8 GHz CPU, and two fast SSD drives. Try to read before getting your panties in a twist. Or maybe you were just karma whoring to get on the MS bashing bandwagon.

Just curious, can that be construed to mean that you agree with artificial limitations like this and can see no reason why anyone would ever oppose ("bash") them or MS for creating them?

A three-application maximum sounds reasonable for a modest netbook until you realize that some applications have a lightweight footprint and that running significantly more than three at a time is well within the hardware capabilities of most netbooks. An objection on grounds other than practicality is that this is yet another instance of a Microsoft operating system determining what the user may or may not do instead of the user determining what the operating system may or may not do. Considering that the operating system is a tool, that seems inappropriate to me. Your hammer doesn't tell you which nails you may drive with it.

I appreciate Microsoft's business reasons for wanting to target different price points by creating lower-cost versions of their OS. Many companies do this. I think they had the right idea with Vista in that the more expensive versions included more "luxury" features that the most basic one lacked, such as the Aero interface. I disagree with the method they're using for Windows 7 because all versions of it have multitasking capability, it's just artificially crippled in the Starter Edition. They didn't innovate or create any new feature, they just crippled an existing and very basic feature.

What follows is my personal opinion. I think this would be a business failure if every member of the general public were thoroughly educated on all matters concerning IT. I can't in any good conscience support something that, in all likelihood, only exists because of widespread ignorance.

Re:You must mean the iPhone

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't a notebook though, this is a netbook. Super small, just* for browsing the internet. You wouldn't want to do anything more serious than that on these machines.
That said, I think the 3 app limit is a bit small. Clearly one would be for the browser. A second would probably be for another browser, in case the first one hits a page it doesn't like. The last one is a toss up, but could be any number of programs: Command line, Calculator, Word/Excel (or OO.org equivalents), AIM, music player, email client...
Would this allow services to run, or what?

I think a more reasonable limitation would probably in the 5-10 apps region. 5 seems a little more flexible for the average user, while 10 seems "good enough" for anyone (though clearly some people will have issues with this number as well).
What I'm running right now:
Notepad++, firefox, Visual Studio.net x3, opera, command line x2, ahoihoi. I'm already at 9, so, there you go.

Re:You must mean the iPhone

[PopeRatzo]

this is yet another instance of a Microsoft operating system determining what the user may or may not do

Not unlike an OS that would determine that I cannot use my own hardware.

Re:You must mean the iPhone

[sglewis100]

Your hammer doesn't tell you which nails you may drive with it.

No but my flathead screwdriver tells me which screws I can screw.

Re:You must mean the iPhone

[hairyfeet]

This is NOT about notebooks with specs like yours, which will get Home Premium or Business. It is about the Netbook market that frankly caught them with their pants down. They need to have an SKU that is cheap enough that it won't switch the OEMs over to Linux, while at the same time making sure it isn't appealing enough to replace one of their money makers. Personally I thought the Vista Basic/No Aero was the way to go, but we shall see.

I'm sure this will probably get me flamed to the nine hells for saying on Slashdot, but the fact that WinXP, a damned near decade old OS, can suck up so much of the Netbook market away from Linux simply shows me how far Linux has to go before getting mainstream acceptance. It is too difficult for your average user to run their Windows apps in Linux, as Wine is too CLI heavy and Crossover is confusing with their "bottles" schema, the adding programs through package managers like Synaptic is too text heavy(I think Apple has the best way for installing programs even though I'm a Windows user. For Linux Click N' Run beats the others hands down) and there is still too much hardware that won't run at all without praying to the config Gods or spending days in CLI trying to get something to work only to find it only works half as well as Windows.

If Linux can fix these problems as well as do as Apple has done and completely kill CLI for front line work then the Win7 3 app limit might prove to be a good foot in the door. Because unless MSFT has figured out how not to count AV vendors that 3 app limit will be hit FAST. You have AV+Antispy plus a real firewall to replace the shitty Windows one? Congratulations, you now can't actually run any programs on your new Netbook. But if the Linux community keeps expecting the whole world to learn CLI and Unix commands then Linux is doomed to stay the tiny niche that it is now. Folks HATE CLI, they do NOT want to spend hours cruising forums only to be told "launch bash and type..." and if there isn't an easy way to run the Windows apps that they have come to depend on and know the layout on then "free as in beer and freedom" will still mean "free as in worthless" to the majority of the currently Windows using public.

The developers of Linux simply have to decide: Do they WANT the marketshare,or do they want to remain a niche? Because gaining the marketshare means giving up things that the Linux nerds love, like CLI, text heavy package managers, and acting like Windows apps are the spawn of Satan. Because as it is Linux simply isn't usable for 99% of the Windows using public. You need IT experience to deal with all the CLI which frankly most folks haven't even got a clue how their "magic box" works, and it is simply too complex to fix when something doesn't work "out of the box" which frankly still seems to be an everyday occurrence. Until the day comes that Linux is more like Apple and less like a bash prompt I'll just have to keep selling my customers Windows boxes. Even with the added cost it is simply worth it. Sorry.

Re:You must mean the iPhone

[powerlord]

Perhaps more importantly to most users:

Let's say you have 2 viruses and 1 piece of spyware running on your computer, does it prevent you from launching the applications you actually want to use... Like the malware removal tool?

Actually I would expect viruses to remove the app restrictions as much as possible, so that they can launch other instances of themselves (and to remove worries from users so they don't try to "figure out what is wrong" with their computer). Either that or the viruses/spyware will switch more toward running as "services" which I'm guessing aren't as regulated by MS, since they wouldn't normally require user interaction.

Expect to see a rash of "Want to use more apps at once on Windows? Download our new Advanced Application Launcher" Utility and Trojan, all in one.

I will just run

[Icegryphon]

VMware with 3 more versions of Windows 7. AH-HA! Beat you at your own game Micro$oft!

Re:I will just run

[DaveV1.0]

I am sure that will work real well on the target platform for this version of Windows 7: the netbook.

Re:Really?

[Akido37]

This is the most useless thing I ever heard of... It's like selling an incomplete OS...

The point is to sell automatic upgrades to more expensive versions of Windows.

"I'm sorry, to do that, you need Windows Ultimate Edition. Would you like to upgrade now? Yes/No"

Re:DOS

[ultrabot]

Why are they deliberately fucking up their OS? Don't they have enough competition? If so, bring in the anti-trust people, or fire the department responsible for this kind of brain-damage.

To compete with Linux on netbook market (and other markets where the cost has to be very low), while still providing some added value for their other editions.

Oldest trick right after "here, eat this apple".

[Thanshin]

"You can have the friking useless edition for 40$. Or, you can be a premium user of the Shiny Platinum Standard Edition VIP for 150$.

Yes, we understand it's a bit expensive, but you're buying the PSS Edition VIP, what did you expect?".

Sorry

[omar.sahal]

You'll get people here saying 3 apps is enough for any one (is enough for any one should raise alarms) but if Microsoft is banking on this limited OS against Linux, ARM CPUs and any cost and power advantages they offer in the market I see problems for them.

Short, insipid, arrogant

[earnest murderer]

This article is basically a two paragraph summary of something I would expect to hear from a hysterical spitting nerd who hadn't showered for three days standing outside of a Gamestop. (Or in a Digg summary)

"Windows Home Basic OMG! Such shite! Install linux!"

I'm actually kind of offended it got posted. Plus also, it's already been discussed ad nauseam.

Send me to troll hell, but you know it's true.

Re:Name Those 3 Apps

[Nerdposeur]

User: "Aw man, I can only load three apps? Well, I guess I can use Google Docs in my browser... what else can I do online without installing anything?"

And that's how Microsoft plans to simultaneously make people hate their operating system and also not buy their other shrink-wrapped software.

Re:Bad user experience, piracy or Linux will win o

[Abreu]

Indeed. What advantage would Windows 7 starter offer over Ubuntu Netbook Remix?

Also, about installing an OS from a flash drive, remember the advances we have seen in OS install programs in the last 10 years.
I am pretty sure there could be a program to sell cheap 1GB drives with different flavors of Linux preinstalled...

Oh, so they're bringing back OS4?

[Ralph Spoilsport]

IIRC, that only ran one app at a time, then they invented "multifinder" and that allowed more than one, per RAM availability.

FORWARD! INTO THE PAST!!!

RS

Re:Starter Edition could do this since XP. Old New

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

The news is that, at least potentially, we'll be seeing the crippled edition shipping on first-world netbooks. You pretty much had to go on safari to find XP starter edition.

If the price is right...

[Lussarn]

If the price is bargain low I could see myself grabing a licence. I only use windows for gaming anyway. A game + web browser would be enough for me.

How long can it last

[PhysicsPhil]

I wonder how long this will last when Microsoft finds out that users are only running one app--the browser--and using gmail, Google docs, etc to run all of their stuff. I can't see this sticking if it has the effect of driving users away from the other MS cash cow: Office.

Re:Will probably sell quite well

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

That, in a way, makes MS's decision even stranger. If you own win32, the undisputed 800 pound gorilla of backwards compatibility, why would you do anything that makes local apps less attractive and webapps more attractive?

These are OEM sales, millions more than Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux could only dream of the sales numbers this "POS" will have. P is punky, not piece.

It doesn't matter really if the buyer puts win7 warez edition on after he buys it since MS already got $25 from him. This also, and perhaps primarily, gets the OEMs to not even consider Linux on the OEM's bottom-tier line.

Re:These are OEM sales, millions more than Linux

[PopeRatzo]

companies like Tesla, Aptera, Fisker, etc are rising up to fill the technology void

When they're done "rising" I hope they sell some cars. So far, not so much.

Re:These are OEM sales, millions more than Linux

[node 3]

Yeah, but with Microsoft, they are doing this by making a deliberately crappy product. Everyone seems to defend MS by saying, "isn't that what every company wants/does?", but it's not the motives that piss people off so much, it's the actions.

The ends aren't the problem, it's the means.

Re:Will probably sell quite well

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in the UK and I don't have iPlayer or 4oD running.

Artificially introducing competition

[wiresquire]

This is an absolute farce.

MS is now in such a dominant position that it is now artificially limiting features to introduce competition and introduce artificial price points. It's aimed at the hardware vendors, and at the price of other operating systems to drive them out of the market.

It's still anti-competitive. It's still MS.

ws

Re:Original story link

[KidPix]

Great info!

Sounds like MS is either mislabeling or mis-marketing this version of Windows. Had they called it Windows 7 Netbook Edition, it probably wouldn't cause so much uproar.

Honestly, I wouldn't expect to pay less than a $100 for a new version of Windows, so I'm pretty much ignoring this Starter Edition stuff. Nothing under a $100 could possibly good enough, right :)

Re:Bad user experience, piracy or Linux will win o

[dotwhynot]

You can find the answer to most of your questions from the people who have tested the thing: Living with the limits of Windows 7 Starter Edition

Familiar apps

[tepples]

What advantage would Windows 7 starter offer over Ubuntu Netbook Remix?

Familiarity. More applications designed for Windows with which users are already familiar run under Windows 7 than under Wine, albeit not at the same time. In a lot of vertical markets, there often just isn't an equivalent Linux app.

Re:Familiar apps

[MBGMorden]

If it can run on a Netbook, and anyone would want to run it on a netbook ... there is almost certainly a native app for Linux already ...

Tell me where to find a Linux native app for doing CAMA (Computer Assisted Mass Appraisal - what governments use to calculate property taxes), Tax Billing, Building/Construction Permitting, Vehicle\Fleet Management, or Court Administration. And yes, we use a lot of these on tablet style devices for field work. Most of these are targeted at local government use, but every particular industry has it's niche apps. Very few companies have a work flow consisting ENTIRELY of just sitting around and typing stuff into Word or Excel documents.

The simple fact is that there are a lot of niche apps that there is no Linux equivalent for, or the Linux version is terrible (there is no open source groupware client/server setup comparable to Exchange/Outlook or Domino/Notes - Domino/Notes IS available in a Linux version if you want proprietary, but the client, though visually identical, is slow as molasses compared to the Windows version). Unless the plan consists of hiring or allocating internal developers to rewrite a lot of applications from scratch, simply switching everything over to Linux is not always an option.

Actually that gorilla would be posix

[Viol8]

I can still compile and run unix apps written 20 years ago on linux today. Can you say that for running a win32 app on Windows 3.0?

No , didn't think so.

Re:Actually that gorilla would be posix

[Anonymous Coward]

"Backwards compatibility" would be running the same binary as you ran 20 years ago. Mom doesn't get a chance to "just recompile recipe-book pro from 1995" to work on her new version of an OS.

Re:What qualifies as an application?

[Opportunist]

It's a headache in the making.

Take various printer drivers that come with their own application (ok, service with systray icon). Does it count? nVidia graphics manager, does it count? Cell sync software, what about that? WiFi connection manager? Various auto-updater, from Java to RealPlayer to Adobe Acrobat Reader, which tend to run all the time without the average user even noticing. If you have a notebook, what about fingerprint reader software and various other "half way essential" systray crap that makes your hardware work decently (I'm not even counting the proprietary "updaters" or "quick launch applications" various notebook, and other, vendors bundle with their stuff).

What gets counted as "application"? Only programs that create a window, only when they actually do so?

Phew. At least malware will still run fine...

Discrimination against netbooks?

[MikeUW]

It seems that netbooks are the primary excuse for pushing this - "most people won't need to run more than 3 apps on a netbook" - or something to that effect. In many cases, the only significant difference between today's 'netbooks' and my 6-year-old laptop is size and weight. I can tell you that I regularly run more than 3 apps on my old laptop.

Granted, I wouldn't want to be writing code or documents on the tiny screen & keyboard of a netbook. However, I don't think it's reasonable to dictate what I can do with my computer based on it's physical dimensions. I could easily find 4 things for my computer to do that don't require lots of typing/reading.

Just my $0.02. I won't be affected by this anyway, since I just wouldn't buy a machine with that version of Windows (or of course I'd just install Linux).

Re:Well, that's easy...

[Spatial]

Lulz!

Get out.

Re:Bad user experience, piracy or Linux will win o

[wastedlife]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=844

Other users have posted this, and it gives some good information as to what is counted and what is not. Something that runs in the tray ("notification area") does not seem to count, but may when the window is launched. An example from the article is an antivirus app that runs in the tray. While in the tray, it works fine, but if you launch the main window for the application that window counts toward the limit. This means you might be able to hide applications in the tray using TrayIt or something, but only 3 can be unhidden at a time.

Re:In other news

[DdJ]

You know MacOS started out that way, right?

The original MacOS didn't have any app-level multitasking, not even "cooperative" multitasking. The first hints of being able to run more than one app at once came with the "Switcher" program by Andy Hertzfeld in 1985, which let you run... two. You could install MultiFinder in MacOS 5, and it was bundled with MacOS 6.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MultiFinder

Now, back in the "one or few apps" days on the Macintosh, there was a need for little widget-like mini-apps that could be run without exiting the current app. The calculator was one, and an alarm clock was another one. They were called "desk accessories". I would bet that Windows 7 includes something like this, and that the app limit doesn't apply to them. And as a result, I would bet developers start cramming more and more functionality into them, exactly as occurred under MacOS in the 80s.

New software feature: No own application

[Opportunist]

CreateRemoteThread, for the longest time the love child of malware writers everywhere, will finally become essential for benign applications. explorer.exe can be hijacked to run more than just malware, I tell you! :)