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FEMA Removes 9/11 Coloring Book For Children From Website

FEMA has decided to pull a children's coloring book entitled, "A Scary Thing Happened" from their website. The coloring book contained three images of the twin towers on fire for children to color. Rose Olmsted, the coordinator behind the book said, "I stand firm that it was a very well thought-out and useful resource for kids, but it's obviously being misinterpreted by a lot of people." Since people are so upset about the coloring book, I can only assume FEMA's plan for a human remains concentration game will be put on hold.

67 of 324 comments (clear)

  1. Wrong move by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Censorship is a bigger danger to the American Public than any FEMA publication.

    1. Re:Wrong move by MikeBabcock · · Score: 3, Funny

      Obviously the submitter is heavily biased and can't be bothered to think past his or (very unlikely her) own prejudices.

      That final sentence is just "hey look at me, I'm a bigot but listen to me anyway."

      For some reason, this comes to mind.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    2. Re:Wrong move by jonnythan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I certainly cry whenever I see a citizen or agency decide not to publish something based on negative public reaction and publicity.

      Wait, what do you mean that's not censorship?

    3. Re:Wrong move by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, public pressure is a very frequent mechanism used for censorship.

    4. Re:Wrong move by skiflyer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A decision by a government agency to stop selling a book that upset some people.

      Censorship would be if FEMA removed the book from their website, and then told the publisher to stop publishing it.

      Extreme cases would then involve removing it from book stores, schools and homes... but that wouldn't be necessary. FEMA taking it off its own website though, not censorship. I don't link to slashdot on my home page, am I guilty of censorship against slashdot?

    5. Re:Wrong move by spun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would call it "Not choosing to put the book on the FEMA site." Guess what, I chose not to put it on my website either. Am I a censor?

      There is a HUGE difference between 'government not using its resources to publish your creation' and 'government banning your creation.'

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    6. Re:Wrong move by gnick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't link to slashdot on my home page, am I guilty of censorship against slashdot?

      If you've never linked to slashdot from your homepage, you're OK. However if you have a link on there and later decide, "You know, that link is unnecessary and silly," and remove it - You've just self-censored. God help you if somebody else sends you an e-mail saying that the link is pointless and that you should take it down - Then if you do what they suggest, you have an obligation to fight censorship by leaving it up.

      In case the sarcasm isn't coming across through the post, I agree with you - This is not censorship. And associating it with censorship waters down valid arguments against censorship. The government putting out a publication that the tax-payers largely object to would not be some strike for free speech, it would be misallocated government spending.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    7. Re:Wrong move by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What prejudices and biases are you talking about? What does a Penny Arcade comic about punctuation and flaming fan-boys have to do with the summary? I just don't understand what you are referring to at all.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    8. Re:Wrong move by vvildcard · · Score: 2, Informative

      As with most Penny Arcade strips, it's not about the game the strip is specifically referring to, it's about the concepts that are at play in the background... you gotta read between the lines.

      The point, if you can't see it, is that the poster goes through the following process:

      1. Frames his rejection of an idea.
      2. Claims he's not a bigot/hypocrite and/or attempts to validate why he's certified to hold such an opinion.
      3. Makes a stupid statement that completely invalidates the main thrust of his position and confirms that he is, in fact, a bigot/hypocrite.

    9. Re:Wrong move by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you reading the same summary I am? Because I do not see:

      1. Anything framing a rejection of an idea.
      2. Any claims about lack of bigotry or certifications of opinion holding.
      3. A stupid statement that completely invalidates a position or confirms bigotry.

      Could you point out examples of what you are talking about? I'm still utterly at a loss, trying to figure out what you see that I don't see.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    10. Re:Wrong move by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2, Informative

      Read it and then tell me it's in bad taste. I think they did a really good job.

    11. Re:Wrong move by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Informative
    12. Re:Wrong move by kevingolding2001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That may be, but there's still no censorship going on here.

      This is a clear case of self-censorship.

    13. Re:Wrong move by FromellaSlob · · Score: 4, Funny

      his or (very unlikely her) own prejudices.

      Palpable irony.

    14. Re:Wrong move by MikeBabcock · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Since you and several others missed it, read the final sentence in the summary: "I can only assume FEMA's plan for a human remains concentration game will be put on hold."

      The poster is trying to make an invalid point employing reductio ad absurdum. Assuming there is no such memory game, the poster is using an absurd example that is even worse than the one that does exist to try and emphasize how bad the existing image is.

      This is a logical fallacy. The image itself should be judged on its own merits instead, and going down "slippery slopes" in your own head, no matter how logical they seem is improper logic.

      As with fanboys and flamers online (Penny Arcade link I posted), the poster of this article assumed everyone already agrees with his or her point of view and would appreciate their colourful remarks instead of actually making a logical point against the images.

      PS "They're obviously horrible" is not a logical statement either when said explicitly or implied.

      For the rest of you who understood the point, congrats. Disagreeing with me is fine, but not being able to see others' prejudices in a statement is just ignorance.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
  2. Wrong decision by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But given the level of ignorance and PCness in this country, not at all surprising. Games and coloring books are two ways kids learn, remember and process things. I recall growing up with coloring books that depicted, for instance, the bombing of Pearl Harbor, Nazis, etc. It didn't turn me into a hateful monster or give me terrible dreams; it helped me learn, remember and understand. I've talked to several friends about this (I have friends across most spectrums you can come up with) and they reached the same conclusion.

    We've become absurdly over-sensitive as a nation.

    1. Re:Wrong decision by rotide · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I totally agree with your conclusion. We're entirely over-sensitive, especially in the U.S.

      However, I have issues with the coloring book and I'm mostly glad it was removed.

      In my opinion, 9/11 is still a very large and very sore subject for many people. I believe the little fly-by stunt the government pulled this week proves that. However, that's not the direct reason I think the book was "off color" (forgive the pun).

      I was speaking with my girlfriend and we're in agreement. Children, especially children that are at the age where coloring books are a learning aid really don't need to be exposed to the details of 9/11. Frankly, most children barely understand that different people live in different parts of the world. The U.S. is a big enough place with enough demographics to keep a kids mind chugging out questions for quite some time.

      Children coloring in planes flying and blowing up into buildings won't mean squat to them. The word "Terrorist" is basically just another word for "bad" or "stranger". The meaning of what happened and what it means is entirely lost on a child.

      Think of it this way, I can't see explaining to a child (of coloring book age) what really happened on 9/11. What is a coloring book really going to teach them then?

      I don't know, rambling a bit here, but I just don't see the point in coloring in 9/11 imagery. If you want children to learn about 9/11, show them news footage and witness accounts. Then teach about the politics and religions that led up to the event and what happened afterwards (in response to and the just because's). But kids of that age, again, really aren't ready (as a whole) to be told, let alone understand, what really happened.

      Regardless of what you may think, Wars, Nazis, 9/11, etc, just simply aren't coloring book material. Lets keep kids coloring books to Spongebob and Animals. When they are old enough to understand and respect what happened, then they can be exposed.

      All this is of course from a schooling perspective. If you want to teach your kids about the realities of the world at home at whatever age you choose, please feel free!

    2. Re:Wrong decision by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Informative

      You've missed the point of the coloring book. Read through it. The purpose isn't to teach kids about 9/11, like you seem to assume, it's to help kids get through a traumatic experience. These are kids who had their house burned down or something, and even if they don't understand exactly what happened, they are going to feel the emotional impact of it. The book is just a way to help them deal with it.

      --
      Qxe4
    3. Re:Wrong decision by coaxial · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was speaking with my girlfriend and we're in agreement. Children, especially children that are at the age where coloring books are a learning aid really don't need to be exposed to the details of 9/11.

      Somehow I really doubt that details beyond: "New York", "World Trade Center Towers", "Airplanes", "Fire", and "Collapse" were involved. If you think honestly think that these details are too much, then you and your girlfriend are seriously underestimating that children understand the very very basics of the events that happened, and this helps them work through those basics. Did you honestly think that this was going to have a page where some Saudi slits the throat of a stewardess with a box cutter while shouting "Allah Ackbar!" ("I'm going to make the fountain of blood green! Yay!"), or people holding hands while jumping from the 87th floor to their death? ("They're going to land on a rainbow car! Yay!")

      You never saw the book. You are not a child psychologist. You have no idea what you're talking about.

      Personally, I think the reason why this book was removed was because it's been eight damn years. It served its purpose while no one noticed. People have moved on, so there's no point in keeping it up. Next up: Finding a PDF that informs us that "This Thursday, March 23, 2003 the DHS cafeteria is serving Sloppy Joes."

    4. Re:Wrong decision by kevingolding2001 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The best reason to take it down now is that it is irrelevant.

      *Cough Splutter*

      What? How could you possibly say it's irrelevant?? In October/November last year in California wildfires burned down at least 900 homes! In Australia just a few weeks ago 200 people lost their lives in the Victorian bushfires! Disasters continue to happen all the time.

      It seems to me that have absolutely no idea what this coloring book is about. I suggest you go back to the GP and follow the link and actually READ IT like you were invited to. Then you can come back and start throwing your opinions around.

  3. Remove all 9/11 images by slashkitty · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Is what the government is saying. Please forget this ever happened.

    It's like trying to take guns and cannons out of civil war coloring books.

    It happened and it's history. People need to know the truth.

    --
    -- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
    1. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by rts008 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is what the government is saying. Please forget this ever happened.

      DHS, Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping, TSA, color-coded 'Terrorists Might Get Us Today' alert levels, Boston freaking out over L.E.D.'s, troops in Afghanistan, troops in Iraq, 'No Fly' lists, etc...

      I think that genie is irrevocably out of the bottle, but it would still not surprise me if you were correct.

      It happened and it's history. People need to know the truth./quote
      And remember it to avoid the same mistakes.(we seem to be having trouble with this one)

      Just remember kiddies, when you stick your head in the sand, it puts your butt up in the air for easy access...have plenty of lube ready.

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    2. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      If I ever have kids, the first step will be to teach them that I'm a hypocrite.

      After that, when they ask why not, I can tell them I am an asshole, while emphasizing that they aren't to use such language.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sorry, big bag of fail there. Kids who need coloring books to learn about a terrorist attack do not need to learn the history yet.

      I'm not sure someone who has to describe something as a "big bag of fail" has a proper perspective on what children need much less how to educate them.

  4. You can clearly see! by vjmurphy · · Score: 5, Funny

    In those coloring book images, you can clearly see that the towers were rigged for demolition! See, I just drew in a team of CIA operatives with a TNT plunger! COVER UP! I call COVER UP!

    --
    Vincent J. Murphy
    Spandex Justice
  5. Next on the list for removal by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is just the first government agency publication to be pulled. To come:

    FEMA's Katrina Snorkel & Search underwater body hunt field kit
    The SEC's Big Book of Why Daddy Contemplates Suicide guide to financial hardship for kids
    The FDA's Crush&Snort Mortar and Pestle Set

    Look for a complete list to be published by early summer.

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    1. Re:Next on the list for removal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't forget the DEA's Crystal Meth EZ-Bake Oven. That one's a classic.

  6. THIS AIN'T RIGHT! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Interesting
    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:THIS AIN'T RIGHT! by PayPaI · · Score: 3, Informative
  7. I'll be the karma whore by vrmlguy · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    Nothing for 6-digit uids?
    1. Re:I'll be the karma whore by BitwiseX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      OK.. so after flipping through it the only thing related to 9/11 is the cover and ONE page. The rest of the coloring book doesn't refer to any specific events, just "disaster". It looks to me like a good effort at educating children about disaster and coping with it.

      Why can't they change the cover, change the image on that page, and MOVE ON!

    2. Re:I'll be the karma whore by bratloaf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I just read through that entire thing, and seems to me this is a really good and well thought-out coloring book about general disasters and helping young kids cope. The cover is really the only thing that's 9/11 related - and if you look, even that is just ONE part of the disasters represented. I think this is clearly yet another example of overzealous political correctness - i.e. pussification.

    3. Re:I'll be the karma whore by mutube · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I agree. I'd never heard of this book before now (I am from the UK) and expected something either frightening/sickly sweet. It's actually good.

      If anything the only problem I can see with the use of the 9/11 image on the front is that it's 'out of date' - in the sense that there have been a number of more recent disasters that it may be better to refer to (given the target age).

      Change the cover and it's good to go, no?

  8. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by malkir · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Where the hell did you grow up? Certainly not in the U.S.A., if you think that coloring in a terrorist attack is so worrisome, what's your opinion on the public television they'll be watching in just a few years? I say we quit pretending and come to terms with reality, this happened. It was a very real thing, a 'turning point' (using this term lightly) in American history.

    What happened to "9/11 - Never Forget". When did it become "9/11 - Never Forget, But Don't Tell the Children!!".

  9. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Turzyx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This isn't about us pretending, it's about children pretending. Learning about the futility of existence should be a suprise saved for later in life.

  10. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by swb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A certain amount of desensitization is necessary to live.

    I open the paper every day to see a two-page spread of people who died. If I wasn't desensitized to death to a certain degree and instead had a huge emotional reaction to everyone who had died, I'd be screwed.

    You don't want kids to be callous, but you don't want them to live in fear, either.

  11. Not a big deal by Ogive17 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I remember when I was between the ages of 6 and 10 I use to draw battles with tanks, jets, and stickmen. I had people falling into volcanoes, getting blown in two by bombs, getting hit by "tracer" round gunfire, etc. Guess what, I'm still pretty normal. I don't have the urge to blow anyone up or shoot anyone.

    While I agree it's a bit odd to have the twin towers getting hit by airplanes in a coloring book, I wouldn't have a problem with my kids coloring the picture.

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  12. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Chyeld · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The coloring book was a well thought out resource then for allowing toddlers work out their emotions from that event.

    Honestly, can you imagine how scary it would have been to be a 4 year old during 9/11? We adults, the folk they looked to for guidance, were primarily broken. Most of the people I knew back then were completely at a loss on how to act, what to think, or even what to say, they just sat there organically BSOD'ed.

    Now imagine you are a kid and your parents are doing this, and the TV is saying we are under attack, showing buildings falling and people jumping out. Over and over again.

    The kids back then needed something to help them cope, and giving them the opportunity to draw it in a coloring book, as much as it sounds counter intuitive, is pretty much the standard "coping technique" any child psychologist will suggest for children who've experienced a tramatic event.

    On the other hand, I really don't see it being as useful today. I would have supported removing it, not because of 'negative pressure' but simply because it was no longer relevant or useful for the purpose it was created.

  13. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by TheCarp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes.

    One thing that I have never really understood.... whats so bad about being desensitized?

    I mean really, do we think that the proper reaction, in just about any situation, is to immediately reduce yourself to a quivering blob of jelly? Isn't desensitization exactly what you want when a major event happens and you have to keep a calm and level head and act rationally?

    I mean seriously, other than a bunch o fhand waving about the bogus dangers of "desensitization" is there really any way at all that this could be, in the least bit, harmful to children?

    Seriously, if we had been a bit more "desensitized" to this extremely rare event, by a very small number of people (who are mostly all dead or captured), then maybe we wouldn't have overreacted so badly.

    At current count, adding security to cockpit doors is the SINGLE change I have seen since 9/12 thats made anyone any safer. In reality, the attack vector was one that relied on passengers believing they would be involved in a bloodless standoff that was exploited. 9/11 was a 100% self correcting problem, as it educated airline passengers to a new type of terrorist plot.

    As of about 11 am on 9/11 the plot could not have been repeated ever again. No new "security measures" were needed. However, being nation of ultra-sensitive cowards who like to hide behind big police forces and military might, we did a lot more than that.

    I see desensitization as a good thing. Lets have them color in some suicide bomb belts while they are at it. so maybe next time we can act like mature adults rather than sacred little children.

    -Steve

    --
    "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  14. Serves the same function as Fairy Tales by swb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ..to teach kids about bad stuff.

    Hansel and Gretel -- your parents can't feed you so they abandon you in the woods to starve to death. Kids had to be exposed to the realities of the world, which despite our attempts to pretend otherwise, were way worse for your typical non-aristocrat in 17th century Europe. Abuse. Abandonment. Starvation. Fairy Tales served as a way to expose kids to what might happen next.

    How is that story -- which was a real threat back when famine and starvation weren't just inspirations for pop music sing-alongs -- any worse than a 9/11 coloring book which tries to help kids understand what happened?

    We're so fucked when the response is to just shelter kids from everything. Shelter them from nothing. Expose them carefully and they will learn.

  15. Re:Who thinks of this stuff? by drakaan · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...The individuals on the terrorist training cards are no more random than the airplanes, tanks, and trucks on the NATO/Warsaw Pact training cards.

    They're not used to fuel hate, they're used to familiarize soldiers with the appearance of specific human beings so that they don't pass by unnoticed. Kind of like "wanted" posters, but made in a way that they're likely to be looked at more often.

    --
    "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
  16. Bruce Perens is a censor! by spun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I notice YOU haven't published the coloring book on YOUR site either, Mr. Perens. Therefore, by your own logic, you are a censor.

    Except that is not censorship. Nobody is banning anything. FEMA is choosing not to use our tax dollars to publish a coloring book on their own web site. Calling that censorship dilutes the meaning of the word, and it demeans the struggle against real censorship.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by belmolis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The difference is that the FEMA site is a site to which people go in search of information about disasters and emergencies. Bruce Perens' site is not. Furthermore, until some silly people began to complain about it, FEMA did have it on its site.

      No, this isn't censorship in the strict sense, but it is unfortunate that a government site should take down a perfectly appropriate publication because some people whine about it.

    2. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by sumdumass · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Isn't the government supposed to be accountable to the people? Then why on earth is it a bad thing when they listen to them and not publish something?

    3. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Freedom of speech does not require that I give anyone a podium.

      FEMA, in this case, was forced to remove the material due to pressure to be "politically correct". Yes, that's censorship.

    4. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      See, now this is how we calmly and rationally discuss an issue without resorting to hyperbole. I happen to disagree that this is unfortunate. Not that I think it is fortunate either, I think it is utterly unimportant.

      Seriously, if you are going to the FEMA site for tips on how to talk to your kids about terrorism, you have bigger problems than the disappearance of a coloring book.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    5. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Isn't the government supposed to be accountable to the people? Then why on earth is it a bad thing when they listen to them and not publish something?

      Since when did populism become such a good thing? The government should be holding up the values that created the country and not caving to every populist whim. Accountable to the people means balancing between a vocal minority (and often a vocal majority) and the values in a country. I'm sure there is a large majority of people who would love the government to cut everyone checks for a 100k. When government refuses are they not being 'accountable to the people?'

    6. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by fbjon · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's not a colouring book about a terrorist attack at all, just FYI. Check it out if you like.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
  17. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Exactly, things always end up on a larger scale later in life. The sooner you have certain life experiences the better you are. Think about chicken pox, when you are 4 or 5 chicken pox is just a few days sick, a few oatmeal baths and some lotion, on the other hand, when you are 40, chicken pox can get you hospitalised rather quickly. Or think about drinking, the kid who drinks a bit when he is 15, throws up and then only occasionally drinks compared to the kid who is 21 and drinks enough to have alcohol poisoning because he doesn't know when to quit.

    Early exposure to things almost always leads to better handling of it and less severe consequences then later in life.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  18. Airplanes! by SnarfQuest · · Score: 5, Funny

    So that's why they flew air force one over New York City. They were making a live action version of this comic book.

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
  19. Re:The very next thing that will happen by reginaldo · · Score: 2, Informative

    The coloring book was created and posted 3 years ago, meaning during the Bush administration.

    Now, would you care to rescind your flamebait?

  20. Why is it a bad thing? by mengel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because the people who are asking them to take it down are silly, that's why. Things like coloring or drawing pictures (and talking about the pictures thus drawn) of traumatic events is good therapy. Removing something that supports that is silly.

    So yes, the government should be accountable to the people. But they should also know when a few people are being silly and complaining about something that is actually worthwhile.

    On the other hand, kids that are of a coloring-book age (like my 5-year-old) at this point probably don't remember September 11, 2001, anyhow.

    --
    - "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'
    1. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by eln · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On the other hand, kids that are of a coloring-book age (like my 5-year-old) at this point probably don't remember September 11, 2001, anyhow.

      Isn't that the point? To explain a tragic and significant event in what is to them American History in an age-appropriate way? I don't see what's wrong with that.

    2. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Since it happened 8 years ago, I'm am POSITIVE that your 5-year-old doesn't remember it.

    3. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Americano · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What evidence do you have that making children draw and colour tramatic events is good therapy?

      There's a whole branch of psychology known as Art Therapy built around this premise. You may believe psychotherapy is a bunch of hooey, but there is certainly a reasonable body of evidence to suggest that creative processes, such as drawing & coloring, can be useful therapeutic tools for children who have affected by some sort of traumatic event.

      Now whether or not the objections are valid or silly, I cannot say - I'd have to defer to the wisdom of trained & accredited psychologists to determine whether or not these particular materials in this particular case had any sort of therapeutic benefit.

      How is the government supposed to know when people are being "silly"?

      I would say the guideline would look something like this: when you have a bunch of people with no psychological qualifications whatsoever complaining about something that a large majority of psychologists actually feel is beneficial, the whiners are being silly. Disclaimer: I do not know if that is the case here, but the government certainly should be capable of determining whether or not an objection has merit.

    4. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by unlametheweak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a whole branch of psychology known as Art Therapy [wikipedia.org] built around this premise.

      I am aware of Art Therapy. I was referring more specifically to the FEMA colouring book though. I am not aware that children who have lived in New York during 9/11 are the only people who have access to this coloring book. Though I think the book has been published many years too late for it to be of any benefit.

      That being said, and on the more tangential topic of Art Therapy; neither the original poster nor you have given any evidence as to the efficacy of Art Therapy. According to Wikipedia "According to the American Art Therapy Association, art therapy is based on the belief ...". Beliefs are fine and dandy, but evidence and proof is necessary for people who don't live on Faith alone.

      I would say the guideline would look something like this: when you have a bunch of people with no psychological qualifications whatsoever complaining about something that a large majority of psychologists actually feel is beneficial, the whiners are being silly.

      That has some merit. I myself have a lot of education in the social sciences and psychology (though I am not an expert or credentialed) and have found that most people would rather believe in folklore than science. I would take your definition of silliness more seriously if it had more logic to it than just majority opinion. Some people can't just live by Karma alone.

    5. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by fbjon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Though I think the book has been published many years too late for it to be of any benefit.

      I looked through the book itself, and the twin towers "scene" is just featured as a cover page. The actual colouring book is more generic, about tornadoes, house fires, etc. The first page asks the reader to draw him/herself before it happened, and further on there's an outline of a face where you can draw how you felt afterwards, also explaining that it can happen without warning, the repeated news on TV, feeling ill afterwards, and eventually getting better. I think it's an excellent resource, and pulling it because of the twin towers is just bogus.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    6. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Americano · · Score: 2, Informative

      I am aware of Art Therapy. I was referring more specifically to the FEMA colouring book though.

      I'm sorry, this is laziness masquerading as skepticism on your part. A casual review of google search results ("Art Therapy" effectiveness) yielded plenty of references to papers & research discussing the effectiveness of art therapy. There is plenty of research out there, and simply stating "I don't believe it until I see the research," is a nice way of saying "I've never bothered to look."

      Art Therapy, Research and Evidence-based Practice by Andrea Gilroy has a whole chapter devoted to "the evidence base for art therapy with children and adolescents," so you might want to start with a copy of that from your local university library if you're interested in the evidence for the efficacy of this therapy.

      You could also peruse this excerpt for a discussion of art therapy that seems specific to a discussion of children coping with serious diseases, but talks significantly about the emotional & mental well-being that the art therapy can promote for children subjected to the stress, trauma, and fear of a medical diagnosis like leukemia.

      There are many other references available, just a quick google search away - please avail yourselves of them.

      I would take your definition of silliness more seriously if it had more logic to it than just majority opinion.

      I didn't suggest "majority" opinion though, I suggested "a majority of experts' opinions" would be a reasonable criteria for determining if a complaint or objection had merit.

      What other reasonable method would you suggest we follow to determine the appropriateness of this sort of material? Most people are not psychology experts, and so do not - in general - have the training & experience necessary to judge whether or not a book like this is a useful tool for child psychologists, and it is not feasible for every single person to become an expert in every field necessary to make sound judgements about these disagreements.

      So in practical terms, if there is a dispute over the appropriateness of the material, and on the one side you have a group of laymen who have no particular knowledge of the field, and on the other side, you have a group of people who have spent long years research, training, and work in the field, whose judgement do you trust?

    7. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am aware of Art Therapy. I was referring more specifically to the FEMA colouring book though.

      Wouldn't the coloring book be Art Therapy? I'm not sure I follow you on that one.

      I am not aware that children who have lived in New York during 9/11 are the only people who have access to this coloring book.

      They've got this new invention, it's only been around about 100 years now. It's called a TeeVee, TV for short. Through the magic of the TV and news media, millions of kids saw the 9/11 attacks. I myself, thousands of miles away, watched them fall.

      I would easilly wager hundreds of thousands, if not a million or two, children saw the planes hit those towers and watched them fall. Do you think none of them were traumatized? Furthermore, the book was not about 9/11, it was about "Bad Things". You may have noted the title: "Bad Things Happen". It gives it away. 9/11 was mentioned, but it was by no means a book targeted at children who had been traumatized by 9/11 specifically. It was for kids who had been through, or were affected by, a major tragedy. Most ANY major tragedy, pretty much all the natural disasters were covered too.

      Beliefs are fine and dandy, but evidence and proof is necessary for people who don't live on Faith alone.

      All of science is based on a belief, or hypothesis of some kind. As it developes, it becomes a theory, or framework which explains reality. The theory holds until it is proven wrong, or a more accurate theory is developed. Since there are no perfect theories, they are all proven wrong eventually, or at least inadequate. Even Newtonian calculus, which held for a couple hundred years and is adequate for most applications today, has been proven incorrect. So don't attempt to invalidate a modern therapudic technique because it's "just a theory". You are revealing your ignorance when you do.

      Lastly:

      Though I think the book has been published many years too late for it to be of any benefit.

      The book was published six years ago, the 9/11/2001 was less than eight years ago. So, 4-7 year olds at the time of the attack were too young to have been traumatized by the event, and perhaps receive some benefit from the coloring book? I'd like to see some of your precious evidence that shows four year olds can't be traumatized!!

      You are ignorant on the subject, and you clearly do not wish to educate yourself. If you did, you might have to alter your opinion, so that obviously won't happen.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
  21. Re:And Does The Book by mdarksbane · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Umm... it's still torture, even if you can argue that it was defensible.

    If I walked into a camp in Pakistan and shot Osama Bin Laden in the head, it would still be murder, or at the very least, assassination (aka, fancy political murder). Whether it was justified or not does not change what the action was.

    Now, given that everyone tortured under the Bush regime had *not* been committed of a crime, that multiple serious studies have shown that torturing is not a useful way to acquire reliable information, and that there has been no proof submitted to the public that the torturing was in any way useful... I'd argue the justification of it, too.

  22. Coloring Book by Niris · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those of you too lazy to go searching for it (I'm rather surprised I'm not in this group this time) here's a copy of the coloring book. I'm sitting at work coloring it right now, yay!

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/pdf/femacoloringbook.pdf

  23. Re:Wrong again by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2, Informative

    Calling this censorship is simply hyperbole, and a knee-jerk attempt at whipping up some anti-government, anti-PC hysteria.

    Well, that's funny, because I am a supporter of the current administration, and took time off of work to help Obama be elected.

    I am pro-government. I am also pro full-disclosure, transparency, and full discussion. I am not so pro-government that I take everything they do as good, and am very relieved that Obama just hinted he would revisit the state secrets issue. I think government only works when it is of the people, by the people, and for the people.

    As you can see from my recent article, I have an interest in emergency preparedness. I looked through the FEMA coloring book and, first, it's not by FEMA. It's by a local emergency preparedness team. Second, it's a really good job. I'd show it to any child. It would help the child understand how to cope with an emergency by being prepared.

    So, hyperbole, knee-jerk, and hysteria on you, sir.

  24. Re:And Does The Book by NiteShaed · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah, it's only torture when other countries do it. When our country does it, it's a valuable interrogation technique.

    But hey, just because torture is generally considered an unreliable method of gaining information, why shouldn't we do it anyway? It proves we're tough, right?

    --
    Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
  25. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Chyeld · · Score: 2, Informative

    And having spoken before seeing the link to the coloring book, I see that I'm wrong in part. I assumed due to the summary and the linked article that this was a 9/11 specific coloring book and thus that it was no longer relevant.

    Now that I've read it and see it's a general "any disater" book that simply has two pictures that one would assume were the 9/11 attacks on the twin towers, I wouldn't have even supported removing it due to it's relevance.

    The people putting pressure on FEMA to remove it are idiots, and FEMA is a bit silly for removing it just to please them.

  26. Re:Wrong again by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am well aware that I am "Bruce Fricken Perens" :-)

    Well, I see a few problems here.

    I actually read the book. 911 is not centrally featured, it's just one of a number of disasters. There are also fires, floods, etc. And there is a really nice talk, at a child's level, on how to be prepared. Now, a child who knows how to be prepared is going to be more confident of getting through an emergency.

    I had a big demonstration of this during a dinner-time earthquake a few years ago. Valerie and I just looked at each other in shock across the table, and it was Stanley, then 7 years old, who said "duck and cover!" and got us moving. He'd been well trained in school.

    So, I'm bothered that this resource has been removed just because it had photos of the world trade center burning and being hit by an airplane that a child could color in. That's how you get a child to think about things. Most children would draw in people either running, or helping others, or catching the bad guys. Or all three. That's how they think, and that's how they tell others what they are thinking, which a parent can use as a cue to talk things through further. I downloaded the PDF. My kid is a bit old for this now (he's 9) but he is pretty well trained in self-reliance anyway.

    I am also disturbed that some over-sensitive people get to tell our government how to give all of us services. That sounds undemocratic to me.

  27. The article does not say why the book was removed by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whoah there, Bruce. Please point out where the article claims that FEMA took down the coloring book due to pressure. Actually, the article does not state WHY the book was removed. Unless you have access to information we don't, you are making completely unwarranted assumptions.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  28. Re:Wrong again by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please show us where the article makes any claims whatsoever as to why this coloring book was taken down. This is the problem I have with claims of censorship, for all we know, FEMA had a contract to keep the thing up for six years and it just expired. Or they ran our of space on the web server. Or it was an accident. We just don't know, and assuming it was due to public outcry is unwarranted.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton