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FEMA Removes 9/11 Coloring Book For Children From Website

FEMA has decided to pull a children's coloring book entitled, "A Scary Thing Happened" from their website. The coloring book contained three images of the twin towers on fire for children to color. Rose Olmsted, the coordinator behind the book said, "I stand firm that it was a very well thought-out and useful resource for kids, but it's obviously being misinterpreted by a lot of people." Since people are so upset about the coloring book, I can only assume FEMA's plan for a human remains concentration game will be put on hold.

253 of 324 comments (clear)

  1. Wrong move by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Censorship is a bigger danger to the American Public than any FEMA publication.

    1. Re:Wrong move by MikeBabcock · · Score: 3, Funny

      Obviously the submitter is heavily biased and can't be bothered to think past his or (very unlikely her) own prejudices.

      That final sentence is just "hey look at me, I'm a bigot but listen to me anyway."

      For some reason, this comes to mind.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    2. Re:Wrong move by jonnythan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I certainly cry whenever I see a citizen or agency decide not to publish something based on negative public reaction and publicity.

      Wait, what do you mean that's not censorship?

    3. Re:Wrong move by maxume · · Score: 1

      Do you mean to equate this situation with censorship, or are you just playing happy happy non sequitur?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:Wrong move by drakaan · · Score: 1

      How would you characterize the disappearance of the book, if we're avoiding the word "censorship"?

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    5. Re:Wrong move by damburger · · Score: 1

      And censorship of this... I don't see what is wrong at all with creating resources like this for helping small children cope with disasters.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    6. Re:Wrong move by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, public pressure is a very frequent mechanism used for censorship.

    7. Re:Wrong move by skiflyer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A decision by a government agency to stop selling a book that upset some people.

      Censorship would be if FEMA removed the book from their website, and then told the publisher to stop publishing it.

      Extreme cases would then involve removing it from book stores, schools and homes... but that wouldn't be necessary. FEMA taking it off its own website though, not censorship. I don't link to slashdot on my home page, am I guilty of censorship against slashdot?

    8. Re:Wrong move by maxume · · Score: 1

      I would describe it as a redirection of government resources.

      I mean, the government doesn't actually have an obligation to fully represent all viewpoints, or to maintain public access to all content that it has ever published.

      If FEMA refused to turn over the book in the face of a FOIA request, I would be a little irritated, but there is a link down the page to a copy of the book hosted on the Smoking Gun, so I wouldn't spend much time on it.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    9. Re:Wrong move by spun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would call it "Not choosing to put the book on the FEMA site." Guess what, I chose not to put it on my website either. Am I a censor?

      There is a HUGE difference between 'government not using its resources to publish your creation' and 'government banning your creation.'

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    10. Re:Wrong move by gnick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't link to slashdot on my home page, am I guilty of censorship against slashdot?

      If you've never linked to slashdot from your homepage, you're OK. However if you have a link on there and later decide, "You know, that link is unnecessary and silly," and remove it - You've just self-censored. God help you if somebody else sends you an e-mail saying that the link is pointless and that you should take it down - Then if you do what they suggest, you have an obligation to fight censorship by leaving it up.

      In case the sarcasm isn't coming across through the post, I agree with you - This is not censorship. And associating it with censorship waters down valid arguments against censorship. The government putting out a publication that the tax-payers largely object to would not be some strike for free speech, it would be misallocated government spending.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    11. Re:Wrong move by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What prejudices and biases are you talking about? What does a Penny Arcade comic about punctuation and flaming fan-boys have to do with the summary? I just don't understand what you are referring to at all.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    12. Re:Wrong move by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Censorship that abridged the right to free speech is a danger. Since the government isn't forbidding anybody from publishing a tasteless coloring book, I think we're fine. Government sites aren't obligated to publish EVERYTHING, just like it's not a violation of constitutional rights if a government press decides not to publish a particular book.

    13. Re:Wrong move by drakaan · · Score: 1

      I'm not making a political argument, just a pedantic one...if I display something, and then remove it from view for some reason, I am censoring myself (as a poster above said).

      Seriously, I'm looking for a word that describes what happened, and failing to find a more approprate one. It may or may not be censorship in the legal sense, I have no idea...I suppose it depends on whether they ask TSG et. al. to remove links to it, as well, but in the literal sense it definitely is.

      From Merriam-Webster:

      to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable <censor the news> ; also : to suppress or delete as objectionable <censor out indecent passages>

      If you choose to not put the link on your site, then no, that's not censorship. If you have the link on your site and then remove it, then yes, it's censorship...just not the government kind we often talk about, and sometimes see.

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    14. Re:Wrong move by jonnythan · · Score: 1, Informative

      That may be, but there's still no censorship going on here.

      Sorry, Bruce.

    15. Re:Wrong move by vvildcard · · Score: 2, Informative

      As with most Penny Arcade strips, it's not about the game the strip is specifically referring to, it's about the concepts that are at play in the background... you gotta read between the lines.

      The point, if you can't see it, is that the poster goes through the following process:

      1. Frames his rejection of an idea.
      2. Claims he's not a bigot/hypocrite and/or attempts to validate why he's certified to hold such an opinion.
      3. Makes a stupid statement that completely invalidates the main thrust of his position and confirms that he is, in fact, a bigot/hypocrite.

    16. Re:Wrong move by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is. But deciding to pull a publication after you realize that it was in inexplicably awful taste isn't censorship. The government pulling that publication for you (which didn't happen, if TFS is anything to go by) would be.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    17. Re:Wrong move by jwildstr · · Score: 1

      Why? Let's say I have a list of comics I read. And I discover that I'm no longer reading one of them because I find it boring. And I remove that link. I haven't suppressed/deleted it because I find it objectionable, I've removed it because I find it boring. I'd agree that if I linked to the FEMA site, and I removed that link because their linking to this book offended me, that would be self-censorship. But why is removing something I have no need for censorship in any sense of the word?

    18. Re:Wrong move by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you reading the same summary I am? Because I do not see:

      1. Anything framing a rejection of an idea.
      2. Any claims about lack of bigotry or certifications of opinion holding.
      3. A stupid statement that completely invalidates a position or confirms bigotry.

      Could you point out examples of what you are talking about? I'm still utterly at a loss, trying to figure out what you see that I don't see.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    19. Re:Wrong move by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Agreed. So does anyone have a link to download this coloring book?

    20. Re:Wrong move by unlametheweak · · Score: 1

      Censorship is a bigger danger to the American Public than any FEMA publication.

      It depends on what they publish. If you are referring to this specific incident then I say any "censorship" question is irrelevant and exaggerated. In this case common sense and good taste are the applicable subjects. I suppose the public does have a right to have input into what their tax dollars are being spent on. Unfortunately, because this is FEMA and because 9-over-11 itself is a political topic, the whole issue is likely to be politicized into a Left versus Right type of debate.

      Whether such a coloring book would have any type of educational value at all (versus any possible psychological trauma) is somewhat besides the point; education (of infants) should be left up to parents and schools and not to FEMA. The whole concept was ingenuous to begin with and shouldn't have happened. The government should (instead) spend money on sex education instead of giving it to FEMA to make up morbid colouring books for children.

    21. Re:Wrong move by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Just to clarify since I can't edit - yes, I'm aware that FEMA is part of the government. But it sounds as though this was done willingly, not by an order from some higher-ranking official. The latter would be censorship; what happened here (IMO) is realizing a stupid mistake and then attempting to rectify it.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    22. Re:Wrong move by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2, Informative

      Read it and then tell me it's in bad taste. I think they did a really good job.

    23. Re:Wrong move by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Informative
    24. Re:Wrong move by kevingolding2001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That may be, but there's still no censorship going on here.

      This is a clear case of self-censorship.

    25. Re:Wrong move by mea37 · · Score: 1

      Typing is a frequently used mechanism in writing computer code.

      I am currently typing.

      Therefore.... ?

    26. Re:Wrong move by drakaan · · Score: 1

      ...I did make sure to include the definition in my post, wich includes the word "objectionable". As a pedant, I understand my mistake, and am correcting it.

      I agree that you removing a list of links because you are bored with them is not censorship, and that if you remove them because someone finds them objectionable then that *is* censorship.

      If you agree with the second definition being as correct as the first, then we can agree that the removal of the book from the FEMA site was censorship, if not necessarily in the legal sense of the term (as I said before)...somebody objected and they pulled the link.

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    27. Re:Wrong move by maxume · · Score: 1

      Looking at it, if I had wrote "equate this situation with government censorship", my comment still means what I wanted it to mean, but we don't have to have the conversation about how censorship happens even when it isn't the pernicsious censorship that comes from a powerful organization trying to control the conversation (well, we wouldn't have to have it in this particular thread).

      If I were in charge, I would invent a word that clearly meant government suppression of information, but alas.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    28. Re:Wrong move by dontmakemethink · · Score: 1

      Nothing was censored, the publisher (FEMA) simply stopped selling it due to public distaste.

      It's absolutism that should be censored.

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
    29. Re:Wrong move by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Dear FEMA,

      Your decision to stop selling the book upset me, can you please put it back on sale?

      As it was a downloadable PDF, seems to me they were making it available for free. However, page 2 reads:

      A SCARY THING HAPPENED
      Copyright © 2003

      Published by: Freeborn County Crisis Response Team
      Crime Victim's Crisis Center
      203 W. Clark St.
      Albert Lea, MN 56007
      507/377-5460

      All rights reserved. No part of this publican may be
      reproduced by any means without express written
      permission of the publisher.
      Printed in the United States of America.

      So you could try contacting that publisher instead of FEMA.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    30. Re:Wrong move by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Oh, page 3 also says:

      For information on how to purchase this coloring book
      or to contact the CRT coordinator:

      [the same address with addition of:]
      PO Box 1246
      [and]
      rose.olmsted(a)co.freeborn.mn.us

      BTW, page 12 is the one with the attack, and is an interesting juxtaposition of the image. The woman is holding a newspaper with a picture of the attack while watching it being reported on the TV, while it's happening right now outside her window! WTF?!

      Maybe it's not a newspaper. Perhaps it's the illustrated version of the memo "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the U.S."?

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    31. Re:Wrong move by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      No part of this publication may be

      Fuck.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    32. Re:Wrong move by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      This is like that time I had crumpets with Mr. T and the Queen of England!

      No clip? Oh, I thought we had a clip.

      --
      It's been a long time.
    33. Re:Wrong move by mcfatboy93 · · Score: 1

      If something is not popular or has a bad public reaction you will either be attacked by the press (which is not censored) or you will show people that being exposed to everything is a good thing.

      might I mention it is most likely to be the first one

      --
      Its not my fault, someone put a wall in my way.
    34. Re:Wrong move by Rycross · · Score: 1

      And spun is pointing out that the Penny Arcade strip has nothing to do with the summary. I think your critical reading is in question, not his.

    35. Re:Wrong move by iamangry · · Score: 1

      What is this administration thinking? First they fly a 747 over NYC with F-16's, then they post a 9/11 coloring book on the FEMA website? Who the hell looks for coloring books on the FEMA website???

      I know Americans have a short memory, but ffs learn to be a little more sensitive. 8 year olds don't need to learn about 9/11 through a coloring book with burning towers. That's totally ridiculous. Did any of you color Pearl Harbor pictures? Nagasaki pictures? Holocaust pictures or Vietnam pictures? I think not. That isn't appropriate for a coloring book unless you're some violent fundamentalist infidel burning imam in Iran or something. I expect this kind of shit from them, not my own government.

    36. Re:Wrong move by melikamp · · Score: 1

      The funniest thing I read in a while. Would you really show it to your child? It's just so weird. I would show a documentary or an internet video.

    37. Re:Wrong move by FromellaSlob · · Score: 4, Funny

      his or (very unlikely her) own prejudices.

      Palpable irony.

    38. Re:Wrong move by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      I'll have him check it out and see what he thinks. He's really smart.

    39. Re:Wrong move by melikamp · · Score: 1

      Haha, you are right. It would be silly to presume that this rather simple book is somehow harmful. Now, if it had sharp teeth and bad temper...

    40. Re:Wrong move by fractoid · · Score: 1

      For some reason, this comes to mind.

      I just can't get over the irony of Mr Period, the Punctuation King, saying "I've been trying to get to the gym, more." Begone, superfluous comma!

      Other than that, it seems to be a pretty common human reaction to try and forget past unpleasantries. Apparently a whole generation grew up in Japan knowing very little about their role in WW2, for instance.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    41. Re:Wrong move by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      First they fly a 747 over NYC with F-16's, then they post a 9/11 coloring book on the FEMA website? Who the hell looks for coloring books on the FEMA website???

      You've got it backwards, they posted the book 6 years ago, THEN were frickin retards and buzzed the tops of buildings in Manhattan with a 747 and some fighter jets.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    42. Re:Wrong move by cleverretort · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I think the Twin Towers page is a little insensitive in a different way. It says "You might hear about it again and again on the T.V. or radio or read about it in the newspaper" Then it shows the same image of the planes crashing out the window, on tv and in a newspaper. To me, it's taking the viewpoint that 9/11 was over-exposed. That's a bit insulting to me as a new yorker who lived through it, though thankfully somewhat at a distance.

    43. Re:Wrong move by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      You have to think about it from the child's perspective. Repetition is really important to them (just live with one and you'll learn). So, here was this thing being repeated for a long time, everywhere they looked, and they didn't understand why, and it was scary.

    44. Re:Wrong move by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      You say censorship, I say indoctrination. There is no need for kids to colour in pictures of buildings where 3000 people died. What happened to respect for the dead, and the proper gravity due the situation ? When they are old enough to treat such information with the proper respect, they are too old for colouring books. What's next ? Build a papier mache model of Auschwitz with realistic gas ovens and bodies ? They're kids for christs sake. For you even to think this is censorship shows your insensibilities and ranting stupidity. Would you like 5 year olds to learn about the birds and the bees by colouring in a still from a porn movie with cum shot ?

    45. Re:Wrong move by XDirtypunkX · · Score: 1

      What about a FEMA publication calling for censorship then? Where does that fall under your statement blanket?

    46. Re:Wrong move by drakaan · · Score: 1

      Not making the connection...not placing a link on your site is not supression. Forcing someone else not to place a link on their site would be supression (as in the fed govt saying "no links to the booklet, people don't like it" to TSG, if that were to happen).

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    47. Re:Wrong move by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      Oooh, I really feel bad about being insulted by someone who admits to being a smoker. We are bringing up children to be adults, moron.

    48. Re:Wrong move by MikeBabcock · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Since you and several others missed it, read the final sentence in the summary: "I can only assume FEMA's plan for a human remains concentration game will be put on hold."

      The poster is trying to make an invalid point employing reductio ad absurdum. Assuming there is no such memory game, the poster is using an absurd example that is even worse than the one that does exist to try and emphasize how bad the existing image is.

      This is a logical fallacy. The image itself should be judged on its own merits instead, and going down "slippery slopes" in your own head, no matter how logical they seem is improper logic.

      As with fanboys and flamers online (Penny Arcade link I posted), the poster of this article assumed everyone already agrees with his or her point of view and would appreciate their colourful remarks instead of actually making a logical point against the images.

      PS "They're obviously horrible" is not a logical statement either when said explicitly or implied.

      For the rest of you who understood the point, congrats. Disagreeing with me is fine, but not being able to see others' prejudices in a statement is just ignorance.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
  2. Wrong decision by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But given the level of ignorance and PCness in this country, not at all surprising. Games and coloring books are two ways kids learn, remember and process things. I recall growing up with coloring books that depicted, for instance, the bombing of Pearl Harbor, Nazis, etc. It didn't turn me into a hateful monster or give me terrible dreams; it helped me learn, remember and understand. I've talked to several friends about this (I have friends across most spectrums you can come up with) and they reached the same conclusion.

    We've become absurdly over-sensitive as a nation.

    1. Re:Wrong decision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Stop putting the pussy on a pedestal.

    2. Re:Wrong decision by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      And, if you read Fahrenheit 451, is one of the main reasons that firemen will soon start fires, instead of putting them out. We can't have books, because they will offend people.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    3. Re:Wrong decision by rotide · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I totally agree with your conclusion. We're entirely over-sensitive, especially in the U.S.

      However, I have issues with the coloring book and I'm mostly glad it was removed.

      In my opinion, 9/11 is still a very large and very sore subject for many people. I believe the little fly-by stunt the government pulled this week proves that. However, that's not the direct reason I think the book was "off color" (forgive the pun).

      I was speaking with my girlfriend and we're in agreement. Children, especially children that are at the age where coloring books are a learning aid really don't need to be exposed to the details of 9/11. Frankly, most children barely understand that different people live in different parts of the world. The U.S. is a big enough place with enough demographics to keep a kids mind chugging out questions for quite some time.

      Children coloring in planes flying and blowing up into buildings won't mean squat to them. The word "Terrorist" is basically just another word for "bad" or "stranger". The meaning of what happened and what it means is entirely lost on a child.

      Think of it this way, I can't see explaining to a child (of coloring book age) what really happened on 9/11. What is a coloring book really going to teach them then?

      I don't know, rambling a bit here, but I just don't see the point in coloring in 9/11 imagery. If you want children to learn about 9/11, show them news footage and witness accounts. Then teach about the politics and religions that led up to the event and what happened afterwards (in response to and the just because's). But kids of that age, again, really aren't ready (as a whole) to be told, let alone understand, what really happened.

      Regardless of what you may think, Wars, Nazis, 9/11, etc, just simply aren't coloring book material. Lets keep kids coloring books to Spongebob and Animals. When they are old enough to understand and respect what happened, then they can be exposed.

      All this is of course from a schooling perspective. If you want to teach your kids about the realities of the world at home at whatever age you choose, please feel free!

    4. Re:Wrong decision by sesshomaru · · Score: 1

      That reminds me of that Greek Mythology coloring book I had as a kid... one of my grammar school teachers liked it so much that she used it to make transparencies. I wonder if that would be allowed today?

      --
      "MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
    5. Re:Wrong decision by InsaneProcessor · · Score: 1

      It was a very wrong decision. The FEMA employee that put the book on the website should be fired. That is more than offensive and insensitive!

      It is not the governments place to do this.

      --

      Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
    6. Re:Wrong decision by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      And while you are at it, keep those kids away from Grimm's fairy tales.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    7. Re:Wrong decision by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Informative

      You've missed the point of the coloring book. Read through it. The purpose isn't to teach kids about 9/11, like you seem to assume, it's to help kids get through a traumatic experience. These are kids who had their house burned down or something, and even if they don't understand exactly what happened, they are going to feel the emotional impact of it. The book is just a way to help them deal with it.

      --
      Qxe4
    8. Re:Wrong decision by coaxial · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was speaking with my girlfriend and we're in agreement. Children, especially children that are at the age where coloring books are a learning aid really don't need to be exposed to the details of 9/11.

      Somehow I really doubt that details beyond: "New York", "World Trade Center Towers", "Airplanes", "Fire", and "Collapse" were involved. If you think honestly think that these details are too much, then you and your girlfriend are seriously underestimating that children understand the very very basics of the events that happened, and this helps them work through those basics. Did you honestly think that this was going to have a page where some Saudi slits the throat of a stewardess with a box cutter while shouting "Allah Ackbar!" ("I'm going to make the fountain of blood green! Yay!"), or people holding hands while jumping from the 87th floor to their death? ("They're going to land on a rainbow car! Yay!")

      You never saw the book. You are not a child psychologist. You have no idea what you're talking about.

      Personally, I think the reason why this book was removed was because it's been eight damn years. It served its purpose while no one noticed. People have moved on, so there's no point in keeping it up. Next up: Finding a PDF that informs us that "This Thursday, March 23, 2003 the DHS cafeteria is serving Sloppy Joes."

    9. Re:Wrong decision by coaxial · · Score: 1

      I was speaking with my girlfriend and we're in agreement. Children, especially children that are at the age where coloring books are a learning aid really don't need to be exposed to the details of 9/11.

      Oh yeah. Telling kids "You might think you made the disaster happen, but you didn't," is absolutely not the message we need to be telling our children. They are a failure, and because they didn't pick up their toys from the couch 3,000 people died, and if they don't eat their green beans, another 3,000 are going to die.

    10. Re:Wrong decision by kevingolding2001 · · Score: 1

      However, I have issues with the coloring book

      Did you actually look at it before you came up with that conclusion?

      From the rest of your post it sounds like you have been tricked into believing that the coloring book is "about" 9/11 and goes into details. It is actually about disasters generally, and how people cope with them.

      9/11 is referenced on just one page inside, and part of the cover. (Note also that the cover illustration shown in TFA has been edited. It does not show the full cover).

    11. Re:Wrong decision by shaitand · · Score: 1

      That's great but nobody who experienced anything traumatic in 9/11 is still of coloring book age so it doesn't much matter at this point. The best reason to take it down now is that it is irrelevant.

      For that matter its been almost a decade, move on from 9/11 for god sake. Yeah it was sad, so were lots of things that happened to people a long time ago. Document them, learn the lessons to be learned. But don't still be sensitive and whining 10 years later.

    12. Re:Wrong decision by ubungy · · Score: 1

      I agree with your final assessment. Think about it though America was supposed to be a country where the people had the power. If something was wrong or unjust it was up to the people to change it. Over the decades 'The People' have fought and won many important battles. Society today would be considered utopia in the 1800's and early 1900's. However people still feel the need to pick battles, and will probably always feel the need to in the U.S. But as things get better as a whole, our battles become less important. Hate to say it, I'm American, but a lot of us need to just start sitting down and shutting up. We all have the right to have a voice, doesn't mean you should find any reason at all to use it. (Like I just did ;))

    13. Re:Wrong decision by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure you understood. The book is not about 9/11, it's about healing crisis trauma in general. It has a picture of 9/11, but it's not about it. A meteor could hit San Diego tomorrow, and the book would be just as relevant to that crisis as any other.

      --
      Qxe4
    14. Re:Wrong decision by kevingolding2001 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The best reason to take it down now is that it is irrelevant.

      *Cough Splutter*

      What? How could you possibly say it's irrelevant?? In October/November last year in California wildfires burned down at least 900 homes! In Australia just a few weeks ago 200 people lost their lives in the Victorian bushfires! Disasters continue to happen all the time.

      It seems to me that have absolutely no idea what this coloring book is about. I suggest you go back to the GP and follow the link and actually READ IT like you were invited to. Then you can come back and start throwing your opinions around.

    15. Re:Wrong decision by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      It's a 20 some odd page coloring book with 2 or 3 pages related to 9/11. The rest were related to houses burning, floods, hurricanes, tornados, etc. I don't know if you remember or not, but some guys flew into a coulple buildings a few years ago and tens of thousands were impacted (friends and relatives of the 3,000 who died). That makes the subject worth talking about in my mind.

      Furthermore, this was a coloring book to help kids deal with traumatic experiences.

      A kid who has not had any traumatic experiences would get nothing out of it.

      Why the hell you would give it to a kid who had no traumatic experiences is beyond me.

      Plus the drawing was terrible, I mean, I could do better in about 20 mins, and I can't draw.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    16. Re:Wrong decision by srleffler · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the kids who were traumatized by 9/11 are now at least 12 years old. They don't need a coloring book to help them process any residual emotions about the event. A coloring book to help kids deal with traumatic experiences is a good idea, but it should have pictures of traumatic events that may be relevant to those kids. It's not very likely that kids are again going to experience airplanes flying into twin towers, so images of that event are not particularly useful. The book should be re-issued with more relevant images replacing the 9/11-specific ones.

    17. Re:Wrong decision by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

      The purpose isn't to teach kids about 9/11, like you seem to assume, it's to help kids get through a traumatic experience.

      If that is in fact the case, then the decision to put the World Trade Center on the front cover was a really stupid one.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    18. Re:Wrong decision by gcatullus · · Score: 1

      I think that the general thrust of the coloring book was good. I read it and it basically said that bad things can happen to good people, it's not your fault that the bad things happened, you might feel bad, talk about what you're feeling, and sooner or later you'll feel better.

      But using images of a specific single "bad thing", rather than a general flood, tornado, etc. wasn't helpful.

      As to children not understanding the complexity of "bad", I can point to my nephew on a preschool field trip to the police station. A uniformed police officer came over to shake his hand. My nephew replied that he couldn't talk to him because he isn't allowed to talk to strangers.

    19. Re:Wrong decision by gcatullus · · Score: 1

      I agree that the point of the point of the coloring book was great, but I don't think it was helpful to include images specific to one "bad thing". The general pictures of floods and drawing how you felt sad etc. was great, why politicize it by putting in images of 9/11?

    20. Re:Wrong decision by k1e0x · · Score: 1

      But what did you learn? How could a child possibly understand why the democratic nation of Germany supported the rise of the Nazi's or the actual reasons behind the Japanese strike on Pearl Harbor? What would the coloring book say.. they were bad people? I think there is a lot more to learn there than just they were bad and people died.. unfortunately even adults don't by in large seem to go much deeper than that.

      Is a fleeting grasp of something worse than no understanding at all? I don't know but..Maybe Obama's economic team has the answer to that.. hmm

      --
      Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
    21. Re:Wrong decision by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      That reminds me of that Greek Mythology coloring book I had as a kid... one of my grammar school teachers liked it so much that she used it to make transparencies. I wonder if that would be allowed today?

      Only if the school board backs her in a fight against the legal challenge to her fair use.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    22. Re:Wrong decision by amilo100 · · Score: 1

      I agree. I had a colouring book of American boats in a habour.

    23. Re:Wrong decision by FrameRotBlues · · Score: 1

      Plus the drawing was terrible, I mean, I could do better in about 20 mins, and I can't draw.

      Well, it's not exactly a Rembrandt Paint-By-Number watercolor book; kids who are 5 years old tend to draw like this. They might be able to relate to it better, and color it in quicker, accomplishing more.

      But at least you went and actually looked at the book before making an opinion, unlike some people.

    24. Re:Wrong decision by mabinogi · · Score: 1

      The book has nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11

      There's a picture of the world trade center towers on the cover, along with a couple of other disaster picures, and there's _one_ very small picture of them on _one_ page as an example of a disaster you may hear about on the news.

      READ the bloody thing before you comment on its contents.

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
    25. Re:Wrong decision by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 1

      At what age do you think kids stop coloring? I agree that they might stop at age 4 if you us ethe TV set as a babysitter, or have them addicted to high tech games by then. But a lot of kids, even today, color at least til 7 or 8, and many later than that. And a six year old understands a lot more than most people give them credit for.

      I never suggested the book was to "teach kids about 9/11". But it is a disaster, and it could happen again. Beyond that, it's a disaster that profoundly affects them whether they yet realize it or not.

      I've raised two kids, and spent an awful lot of time with kids of all ages, from all walks of life. I know kids. This isn't going to traumatize them.

      Beyond that, we survived a tornado which tore our house up good while we were at home. I promise you that tornados showed up in the majority of pictures, stories (spoken, written, etc) and whatnot our kids were involved with for quite some time.

      I haven't seen the book, only the cover. But it seems very promising. Pulling it, however, seems to be a kneejerk response to kneejerk responses by a small group of people. If you can point me to a link with the full book I'll be happy to re-evaluate in lihgt of fuller data.

    26. Re:Wrong decision by srleffler · · Score: 1

      I did look through it before I posted. I get it. My point is that the book shouldn't contain any pictures of 9/11, because that is not an example of a disaster that a child today is likely to hear about on the news or encounter personally. It was a one-shot event almost eight years ago.

  3. Remove all 9/11 images by slashkitty · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Is what the government is saying. Please forget this ever happened.

    It's like trying to take guns and cannons out of civil war coloring books.

    It happened and it's history. People need to know the truth.

    --
    -- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
    1. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      It happened and it's history. People need to know the truth.

      And an appropriate way to teach kids about it is to have them color in pictures of burning buildings and planes aiming for buildings?

      Sorry, big bag of fail there. Kids who need coloring books to learn about a terrorist attack do not need to learn the history yet. Wait until they are older, when it can be taught as history and discussed rationally, instead of indoctrinating their very young minds.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by rts008 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is what the government is saying. Please forget this ever happened.

      DHS, Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping, TSA, color-coded 'Terrorists Might Get Us Today' alert levels, Boston freaking out over L.E.D.'s, troops in Afghanistan, troops in Iraq, 'No Fly' lists, etc...

      I think that genie is irrevocably out of the bottle, but it would still not surprise me if you were correct.

      It happened and it's history. People need to know the truth./quote
      And remember it to avoid the same mistakes.(we seem to be having trouble with this one)

      Just remember kiddies, when you stick your head in the sand, it puts your butt up in the air for easy access...have plenty of lube ready.

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    3. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by drakaan · · Score: 1

      Well, as a publication from FEMA related to disaster response, it probably made a lot of sense when it was released.

      I seriously doubt that the book talks much about terrorists and "indoctrinates young minds". On the contrary, removing the book (assuming it talks about how to deal with people being hurt and dying unexpectedly) initiates it's own fair share of indoctrination, don't you think? Ever tell a kid "you can't read/watch/see that", and have them ask you why? You learn a lot about yourself and your motivations during the course of that explanation.

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    4. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by Culture20 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The coloring book was produced to help kids process something that a _lot_ of them saw on live television _while_ it was happening, including the second plane strike, the people jumping, and the towers collapsing; not to mention the bajillion talking heads who were visibly shaken themselves.

      "A Scary Thing Happened", and the kids were going to be thinking about it, and maybe drawing it anyway. Maybe it might have been good to let them know (via a coloring book) that scary things are rare, and that happy times are common. Now, eight years later, those kids have grown past the coloring book stage, and today's toddlers have no need for "A Scary Thing Happened."

    5. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      If I ever have kids, the first step will be to teach them that I'm a hypocrite.

      After that, when they ask why not, I can tell them I am an asshole, while emphasizing that they aren't to use such language.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    6. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sorry, big bag of fail there. Kids who need coloring books to learn about a terrorist attack do not need to learn the history yet.

      I'm not sure someone who has to describe something as a "big bag of fail" has a proper perspective on what children need much less how to educate them.

    7. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by drakaan · · Score: 1

      (burning karma)...Gotta give you props for the funny...

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    8. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by Dhalka226 · · Score: 1

      [Remove all 9/11 images] Is what the government is saying. Please forget this ever happened.

      No. They don't want you to forget, not at all. In addition to everything that has already happened, there is still inevitably going to be yet more done and more excuses made related to terrorism. It's STILL happening, in fairly stupid ways and in extremely recent history. Obama released Bush's torture memos? Cheney gets on TV to whine about how he's helping the terrorists and now we're going to get attacked again*. It's an exceptionally useful tool, and "terrorism!!!" has been catapulted to the top of our list of national boogeymen with sex offenders.

      * Of course we're going to get attacked again. Little that these people (claim to) care about has changed, and anybody who thinks we can stop every attempted attack anywhere and maintain any semblance of freedom is deluding themselves.

    9. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by pwfffff · · Score: 1

      Wow, you're horribly, horribly wrong. Next time read the book before you tell people what it's about. Seriously.

    10. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      My choice of words there has nothing to do with my knowledge of child psychology, or teaching methods.

      As per the parent to my post (who was quite mistaken), the bad side to taking down the book is that it prevents kids from learning history.

      Are you sure I am not correct in saying that learning about 9/11 as history is more appropriate for kids who are older than those kids who typically use coloring books?

      I'd like you to think long and hard about this, and perhaps consult some resources on age-appropriateness for teaching history. While you're at it, why not consult some information on typical age-appropriateness of coloring books.

      Do you care to reconsider your statement? Or will you continue to wallow in ignorance about the subject I wrote about, and choose instead to attack the words I chose to use?

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    11. Re:Remove all 9/11 images by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

      My choice of words there has nothing to do with my knowledge of child psychology, or teaching methods.

      It may not. But your choice of words is another one of those pop culture memes that ultimately has no meaning. Your use of them in talking about educating children strongly implies a lack of education or experience on the topic at hand. My appologies if appearances were deceiving (and I'll admit that the jab was as about being frustrated with the over-use of the "fail" meme).

      As per the parent to my post (who was quite mistaken), the bad side to taking down the book is that it prevents kids from learning history.

      Are you sure I am not correct in saying that learning about 9/11 as history is more appropriate for kids who are older than those kids who typically use coloring books?

      Oddly enough, we might be in agreement here. This coloring book had nothing to do with teaching history and everything to do with dealing with disasters. The premise of this argument is absurd.

  4. You can clearly see! by vjmurphy · · Score: 5, Funny

    In those coloring book images, you can clearly see that the towers were rigged for demolition! See, I just drew in a team of CIA operatives with a TNT plunger! COVER UP! I call COVER UP!

    --
    Vincent J. Murphy
    Spandex Justice
  5. Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Turzyx · · Score: 1, Troll

    I stand firm that it was a very well thought-out and useful resource for kids, but it's obviously being misinterpreted by a lot of people

    Misinterpreted? Children colouring in a terrorist attack... This doesn't worry anyone?

    I'm sorry but I think exposing children to this sort of material will desensitise them to such actions if (when) they happen again... Is that what we really want?

    And more importantly, is this really news for nerds?

    1. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by malkir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Where the hell did you grow up? Certainly not in the U.S.A., if you think that coloring in a terrorist attack is so worrisome, what's your opinion on the public television they'll be watching in just a few years? I say we quit pretending and come to terms with reality, this happened. It was a very real thing, a 'turning point' (using this term lightly) in American history.

      What happened to "9/11 - Never Forget". When did it become "9/11 - Never Forget, But Don't Tell the Children!!".

    2. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Children colouring in a terrorist attack... This doesn't worry anyone?
       
      It doesn't worry me. Yes, it will probably desensitize them, but considering the overreaction our nation had to the killing of fewer citizens in a terrorist attack than we lose on the highways to drunk driving on a holiday weekend, I think we can use some desensitizing.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    3. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by agnosticanarch · · Score: 1

      Desensitized? You mean in the same way that the song Rock-a-bye Baby desensitized children to the violence of life? You mean the same way that the song Ring Around the Rosie desensitized children to the horrors of disease and death? Maybe a bit of desensitization is not necessarily a bad thing _if it prepares children for the horror of REAL LIFE_!

      ~AA

      --
      I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
    4. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm sorry but I think exposing children to this sort of material will desensitise them to such actions if (when) they happen again..

      Ummm you need to look up what desensitize means. It doesn't mean that you don't care when something happens, it means you don't get tied up into an ineffective emotional knot.

      For example, someone who is "desensitized" to violence (like a soldier) is not going to not notice, or not care about killing, but they will be able to kill without having huge emotional issues. At least that's the theory, in practice it usually ends up still bothering people quite a bit.

      Your argument is like saying that showing kids pictures of the Holocaust will "desensitize" them to genocide, so that they won't notice or care WHEN it happens again. Which simply isn't true- it makes them MORE aware of such things, which is good.

      As for this book, it was intended to give kids an outlet to help them deal with constantly seeing stuff about 9/11 on TV, on the news, at school, etc. They don't really understand what's going on at that age, but still need an outlet to help deal with the fear that they pick up from the adults around them.
      It doesn't seem very politically correct, but that's because LIFE is not politically correct, and attempting to shoehorn life into a nice tidy little box is going to cause the kids bigger problems in the long run.

      As a final thought, if this really was an issue, then why do most kids who played the board game "operation" still vomit when a coroner opens up a corpse in front of them?

    5. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Turzyx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This isn't about us pretending, it's about children pretending. Learning about the futility of existence should be a suprise saved for later in life.

    6. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by swb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A certain amount of desensitization is necessary to live.

      I open the paper every day to see a two-page spread of people who died. If I wasn't desensitized to death to a certain degree and instead had a huge emotional reaction to everyone who had died, I'd be screwed.

      You don't want kids to be callous, but you don't want them to live in fear, either.

    7. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by malkir · · Score: 1

      Touche sir, haha.

    8. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Chyeld · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The coloring book was a well thought out resource then for allowing toddlers work out their emotions from that event.

      Honestly, can you imagine how scary it would have been to be a 4 year old during 9/11? We adults, the folk they looked to for guidance, were primarily broken. Most of the people I knew back then were completely at a loss on how to act, what to think, or even what to say, they just sat there organically BSOD'ed.

      Now imagine you are a kid and your parents are doing this, and the TV is saying we are under attack, showing buildings falling and people jumping out. Over and over again.

      The kids back then needed something to help them cope, and giving them the opportunity to draw it in a coloring book, as much as it sounds counter intuitive, is pretty much the standard "coping technique" any child psychologist will suggest for children who've experienced a tramatic event.

      On the other hand, I really don't see it being as useful today. I would have supported removing it, not because of 'negative pressure' but simply because it was no longer relevant or useful for the purpose it was created.

    9. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by TheCarp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes.

      One thing that I have never really understood.... whats so bad about being desensitized?

      I mean really, do we think that the proper reaction, in just about any situation, is to immediately reduce yourself to a quivering blob of jelly? Isn't desensitization exactly what you want when a major event happens and you have to keep a calm and level head and act rationally?

      I mean seriously, other than a bunch o fhand waving about the bogus dangers of "desensitization" is there really any way at all that this could be, in the least bit, harmful to children?

      Seriously, if we had been a bit more "desensitized" to this extremely rare event, by a very small number of people (who are mostly all dead or captured), then maybe we wouldn't have overreacted so badly.

      At current count, adding security to cockpit doors is the SINGLE change I have seen since 9/12 thats made anyone any safer. In reality, the attack vector was one that relied on passengers believing they would be involved in a bloodless standoff that was exploited. 9/11 was a 100% self correcting problem, as it educated airline passengers to a new type of terrorist plot.

      As of about 11 am on 9/11 the plot could not have been repeated ever again. No new "security measures" were needed. However, being nation of ultra-sensitive cowards who like to hide behind big police forces and military might, we did a lot more than that.

      I see desensitization as a good thing. Lets have them color in some suicide bomb belts while they are at it. so maybe next time we can act like mature adults rather than sacred little children.

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    10. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by skiflyer · · Score: 1

      I just don't want to see green flames and purple pictures of the WTC Towers. And where are the people jumping?

      I mean, how far do you take it? I have a feeling a lot of people's problems is the coloring book to light heartedness relationship. I know it's mine, I don't want to hide kids from 9/11 nor do I want to shove it down their throats.

      So, while I'll have discussions with young kids, watch news footage with older ones, and visit the memorial with both I don't want plush toys, coloring books or theme songs.

    11. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry but I think exposing children to this sort of material will desensitise them to such actions if (when) they happen again... Is that what we really want?

      Yes, by all means. We should keep them fearful and unable to deal with situations and concepts that even adults have difficulty dealing with.

    12. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly, things always end up on a larger scale later in life. The sooner you have certain life experiences the better you are. Think about chicken pox, when you are 4 or 5 chicken pox is just a few days sick, a few oatmeal baths and some lotion, on the other hand, when you are 40, chicken pox can get you hospitalised rather quickly. Or think about drinking, the kid who drinks a bit when he is 15, throws up and then only occasionally drinks compared to the kid who is 21 and drinks enough to have alcohol poisoning because he doesn't know when to quit.

      Early exposure to things almost always leads to better handling of it and less severe consequences then later in life.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    13. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by guyminuslife · · Score: 1

      I guess we should having coloring books for the blown-off limbs of soldier who got caught by IEDs in Iraq.

      It happened. Certainly, it's something one should know about. But it's in very poor taste.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    14. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Chyeld · · Score: 2, Informative

      And having spoken before seeing the link to the coloring book, I see that I'm wrong in part. I assumed due to the summary and the linked article that this was a 9/11 specific coloring book and thus that it was no longer relevant.

      Now that I've read it and see it's a general "any disater" book that simply has two pictures that one would assume were the 9/11 attacks on the twin towers, I wouldn't have even supported removing it due to it's relevance.

      The people putting pressure on FEMA to remove it are idiots, and FEMA is a bit silly for removing it just to please them.

    15. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Duradin · · Score: 1

      I can't recall who this statement is from, but it is very applicable here.

      "Fairy tales don't tell children that dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that the dragons can be killed."

      The original versions of Grimm's Fairy Tales served this purpose. Today, those stories would be deemed "inappropriate" for their target audience.

      Hell, look even further back into myths and legends. What used to standard bedtime stories would get slapped with an R or NC-17 these days.

    16. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by pwfffff · · Score: 1

      I'm with this guy. I plan on supersensitizing my kids. Surround them with fluffy things until they're ten, only speak to them using giggles, that kind of stuff.

      I can't wait until he gets out into the real world and sees his first paper cut, he oughta crap his pants crying. Now THAT'S sensitive

    17. Re:Yes, clearly misinterpreted by Ziwcam · · Score: 1

      Except, early exposure to alcohol results in a greater chance of becoming an alcoholic.

  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. Next on the list for removal by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is just the first government agency publication to be pulled. To come:

    FEMA's Katrina Snorkel & Search underwater body hunt field kit
    The SEC's Big Book of Why Daddy Contemplates Suicide guide to financial hardship for kids
    The FDA's Crush&Snort Mortar and Pestle Set

    Look for a complete list to be published by early summer.

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    1. Re:Next on the list for removal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't forget the DEA's Crystal Meth EZ-Bake Oven. That one's a classic.

    2. Re:Next on the list for removal by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      To the mod who decided to mod the parent post overrated:

      Yes, it's not very funny. However, the primary point of the post was to lampoon how ridiculous the catastrophe coloring book idea is. Whether or not you agree with that point is something else, but I hope you considered the idea.

      Off-topic, completely, I know... but it seems there are so many rush-moderators now, maybe you'll consider thinking about it next time.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  8. THIS AIN'T RIGHT! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Interesting
    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:THIS AIN'T RIGHT! by PayPaI · · Score: 3, Informative
    2. Re:THIS AIN'T RIGHT! by x78 · · Score: 1

      Oh god my eyes, what is th.. AHHH
      Note to self: NEVER use bright yellow as a background colour

      --
      Don't panic
  9. I'll be the karma whore by vrmlguy · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    Nothing for 6-digit uids?
    1. Re:I'll be the karma whore by BitwiseX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      OK.. so after flipping through it the only thing related to 9/11 is the cover and ONE page. The rest of the coloring book doesn't refer to any specific events, just "disaster". It looks to me like a good effort at educating children about disaster and coping with it.

      Why can't they change the cover, change the image on that page, and MOVE ON!

    2. Re:I'll be the karma whore by bratloaf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I just read through that entire thing, and seems to me this is a really good and well thought-out coloring book about general disasters and helping young kids cope. The cover is really the only thing that's 9/11 related - and if you look, even that is just ONE part of the disasters represented. I think this is clearly yet another example of overzealous political correctness - i.e. pussification.

    3. Re:I'll be the karma whore by mutube · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I agree. I'd never heard of this book before now (I am from the UK) and expected something either frightening/sickly sweet. It's actually good.

      If anything the only problem I can see with the use of the 9/11 image on the front is that it's 'out of date' - in the sense that there have been a number of more recent disasters that it may be better to refer to (given the target age).

      Change the cover and it's good to go, no?

    4. Re:I'll be the karma whore by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Thanks.

      I'll be adding this file to the rest of my collection "Stuff Bigbrother nerfed". I'm sure after four years I'll need to create a database to index all the contraband I've collected.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    5. Re:I'll be the karma whore by EvilToiletPaper · · Score: 1

      Before reading it I assumed it would have the subtle undercurrent of 'brown ppl = mommy killer' but the book seems pretty benign. Mostly of the pages deal with coping with losing a loved one to a disaster..

      Glad no one showed me this book when I was young.. I would have gone into a schizophrenic paranoid dementia :)

    6. Re:I'll be the karma whore by Altus · · Score: 1

      putting the towers on the front cover was a bit PR mistake though. If they hadnt done that they probably would have avoided this whole mess.

      You cant judge a book from its cover, but most people do anyway.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    7. Re:I'll be the karma whore by sdhoigt · · Score: 1

      > Why can't they change the cover, change the image on that page, and MOVE ON!

      Actually, just the moving on bit would be sufficient.

      sd

    8. Re:I'll be the karma whore by PMuse · · Score: 1

      Come to think of it, if you were old enough to understand 911 (3+), then you are old enough now that you probably aren't coloring any more (9+). It's about time to retire those images anyway.

      --
      "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
  10. Vampires, Garlic, Elephants, and Donkeys by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 1, Informative

    Remove all 9/11 images is what the government is saying. Please forget this ever happened.

    Because the more fixated you are on the events of 9/11, the less likely you are to vote Democrat. Or so the prevailing sentiment on both sides of the political aisle goes. Republicans trot out the images every opportunity they get when up for election, from dogcatcher through president, and the Democrats feed the Marketing Mindset by running from them like vampires from garlic -- or doing stunts like this.

    I think it was Vonnegut who said, "You are what you pretend to be. Be careful of what you pretend to be."

  11. it never should have been posted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    This FEMA document was clearly intended as confidential briefing material for President Bush.

  12. Not a big deal by Ogive17 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I remember when I was between the ages of 6 and 10 I use to draw battles with tanks, jets, and stickmen. I had people falling into volcanoes, getting blown in two by bombs, getting hit by "tracer" round gunfire, etc. Guess what, I'm still pretty normal. I don't have the urge to blow anyone up or shoot anyone.

    While I agree it's a bit odd to have the twin towers getting hit by airplanes in a coloring book, I wouldn't have a problem with my kids coloring the picture.

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    1. Re:Not a big deal by SupremoMan · · Score: 1

      I must agree with Parent. I too drew all kinds of atrocities. Hell I had a milder view of death when I was a child than I do now, provided it was not my own death. I can only attribute this to the fact my mind has not developed enough to express true empathy for my fellow men.

    2. Re:Not a big deal by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      I said "pretty normal" which I meant as mostly, but not completely normal.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  13. Serves the same function as Fairy Tales by swb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ..to teach kids about bad stuff.

    Hansel and Gretel -- your parents can't feed you so they abandon you in the woods to starve to death. Kids had to be exposed to the realities of the world, which despite our attempts to pretend otherwise, were way worse for your typical non-aristocrat in 17th century Europe. Abuse. Abandonment. Starvation. Fairy Tales served as a way to expose kids to what might happen next.

    How is that story -- which was a real threat back when famine and starvation weren't just inspirations for pop music sing-alongs -- any worse than a 9/11 coloring book which tries to help kids understand what happened?

    We're so fucked when the response is to just shelter kids from everything. Shelter them from nothing. Expose them carefully and they will learn.

    1. Re:Serves the same function as Fairy Tales by Leafheart · · Score: 1

      We're so fucked when the response is to just shelter kids from everything. Shelter them from nothing. Expose them carefully and they will learn.

      That is called parenting, teaching personal responsibility and caring for your kid. And that's completely out of fashion, sorry. Try maybe Next Autumn

      --
      --- "When you gotta do something wrong. You gotta do it right. (Fighter)"
  14. Karma restored! by MarkGriz · · Score: 1

    This was simply done to balance the karma equation, after terrorizing most of lower Manhattan with a 747 and a fighter jet.

    Karma restored. Yay government!

    --
    Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
  15. Re:Who thinks of this stuff? by drakaan · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...The individuals on the terrorist training cards are no more random than the airplanes, tanks, and trucks on the NATO/Warsaw Pact training cards.

    They're not used to fuel hate, they're used to familiarize soldiers with the appearance of specific human beings so that they don't pass by unnoticed. Kind of like "wanted" posters, but made in a way that they're likely to be looked at more often.

    --
    "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
  16. Re:Who thinks of this stuff? by mattack2 · · Score: 1

    What are you talking about? The only vaguely similar thing I could think of is the Iraq War playing cards. (First relevant link I found was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most-wanted_Iraqi_playing_cards)

  17. 9/11 == Power Over Electorate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Nonsense. 9/11 helps whoever is in power by whipping the nation into a patriotic government-worshiping frenzy. Remember all those people who thought that criticizing the president was akin to treason? That's the power of 9/11. Both Democrats and Republicans want that power.

    This coloring book was pulled for a completely different reason, namely that people didn't want their tax dollars supporting such a thing.

  18. Outlived its usefulness by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Disaster books for children should either
    1) cover a disaster that the particular child has experienced or heard about, preferably one that their peers have also heard about
    2) cover a fictional or very old disaster that none of their friends experienced or heard about

    A book about 9/11 was useful in the early 2000s. A book about The Tsunami was useful in the mid-2000s. A book about Katrina would be useful today.

    Likewise, children's books about World War II or The Galveston Hurricane of 1900 are useful and timeless.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Outlived its usefulness by SomeJoel · · Score: 1

      You should read the book. It isn't about 9/11, except for pretty much the cover. How does that old saying go about judging books?

      --
      <Complete your profile by adding a signature!>
  19. Bruce Perens is a censor! by spun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I notice YOU haven't published the coloring book on YOUR site either, Mr. Perens. Therefore, by your own logic, you are a censor.

    Except that is not censorship. Nobody is banning anything. FEMA is choosing not to use our tax dollars to publish a coloring book on their own web site. Calling that censorship dilutes the meaning of the word, and it demeans the struggle against real censorship.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by belmolis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The difference is that the FEMA site is a site to which people go in search of information about disasters and emergencies. Bruce Perens' site is not. Furthermore, until some silly people began to complain about it, FEMA did have it on its site.

      No, this isn't censorship in the strict sense, but it is unfortunate that a government site should take down a perfectly appropriate publication because some people whine about it.

    2. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by sumdumass · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Isn't the government supposed to be accountable to the people? Then why on earth is it a bad thing when they listen to them and not publish something?

    3. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Freedom of speech does not require that I give anyone a podium.

      FEMA, in this case, was forced to remove the material due to pressure to be "politically correct". Yes, that's censorship.

    4. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      See, now this is how we calmly and rationally discuss an issue without resorting to hyperbole. I happen to disagree that this is unfortunate. Not that I think it is fortunate either, I think it is utterly unimportant.

      Seriously, if you are going to the FEMA site for tips on how to talk to your kids about terrorism, you have bigger problems than the disappearance of a coloring book.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    5. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by nevergleam · · Score: 1

      The government is accountable to the people, but only insofar as the Constitution allows. What I say is beside the point that the coloring book was a pretty bad idea.

      Is it censorship? I don't know, and I don't care if it is in this particular case. I just know that the book was available on FEMA's site for SIX YEARS. I wonder how many kids' minds it put at ease in that time.

    6. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Yes but there is a mechanism for that and its not people whine loudly and government org caves. FEMA doesn't answer to the people directly, it answers to a chain of command that ultimately leads to the president. The president in turn answers to the people (at least in theory).

    7. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Isn't the government supposed to be accountable to the people? Then why on earth is it a bad thing when they listen to them and not publish something?

      Since when did populism become such a good thing? The government should be holding up the values that created the country and not caving to every populist whim. Accountable to the people means balancing between a vocal minority (and often a vocal majority) and the values in a country. I'm sure there is a large majority of people who would love the government to cut everyone checks for a 100k. When government refuses are they not being 'accountable to the people?'

    8. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by unlametheweak · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Seriously, if you are going to the FEMA site for tips on how to talk to your kids about terrorism, you have bigger problems than the disappearance of a coloring book.

      FEMA is like God; you can pray to it and give your tithing, but don't expect to be saved when the you really need assistance.

    9. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by ab_iron · · Score: 1

      I want to hear what Richard Stallman has to say about this.

    10. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by palindrome · · Score: 1

      it is unfortunate that a government site should take down a perfectly appropriate publication because some people whine about it.

      A colouring book of a terrorist attack is appropriate how?

      Maybe I'm wrong, maybe "the Suicide Bombers From Space" would also be a good cartoon (obviously I've fictionalised it but it's for the ratings). Or maybe leave terrorism to be discussed and considered by adults rather than kids eh? Maybe they'd prefer to go for a bike ride or something - they have the rest of their lives to be depressed, let's at least wait until they hit 13.

      It's a difficult decision, I don't know what to think.

    11. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Isn't the government supposed to be accountable to the people? Then why on earth is it a bad thing when they listen to them and not publish something?

      A lot of people would have liked GWB to nuke Afghanistan. Do you think he should therefore have done so?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by fbjon · · Score: 1

      Isn't FEMA precisely the agency that should have some resources on dealing with a disaster? (Note: disaster, as in the book, not terrorism specifically)

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    13. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by fbjon · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's not a colouring book about a terrorist attack at all, just FYI. Check it out if you like.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    14. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Becasue sometime the people are idiots.

      Often the loud voice isn't the one most people agree with.

      This book is a good book, a healthy book, and a book that can aid in education children on what they feel.

      The fact that a bunch off idiots want it down is irrelevant.

      The fact that is is OPTIONAL to download means people don't ahve to download it. These morons pressured the government into removing my option to download it. Well in theory, I actually already have it.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    15. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I know, for real. That would be madness!

      It's much better that they cut big businesses a check for Billions of dollars instead.

      I'm WAY more comfortable with that.

      Seriously...

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    16. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      I want to hear what Richard Stallman has to say about this.

      I can tell you, he'd say "It doesn't use GPL, it doesn't give the source, it isn't FREE!! Burn the bitch I say! Ban it!"

      Ok, I might have ad-libbed a little there...

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    17. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      Removing slavery is an example of the government going against much of the population for the moral betterment of the country. If we had waited for the populist views on slavery to come around we would have had slavery going on much longer than it did. Just look at how long it took and is still taking to remove peoples prejudices.

      You're right that values and social mores did change over time. Do they change on their own or do they change with a combination on their own and with and government intervention?

    18. Re:Bruce Perens is a censor! by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      Corporate populism is just as bad. For decades the government has slowly been getting filled with people from wall street. That's all they know, and they seem to think that what's good for wall street is good for main street. Well to the normal person it's obvious that that isn't not true.

      The government needs to grow some balls and understand that there are things they are going to need to do that very few people will agree with, even though they will be the right thing to do.

  20. The coloring book is late wrt relevancy by ObiWonKanblomi · · Score: 1

    It's been over 7 years since 9/11, so I'm not sure how relevant painting burning towers now would be for a kid who probably wasn't born yet.

    For those who say history shouldn't be covered up, that's true, but this isn't a history book. It's a coloring book aimed toward coping with disaster.

    1. Re:The coloring book is late wrt relevancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The booklet was first published in 2003, and most of the disasters depicted are floods, tornadoes or fires, which are still very common and likely to affect some kids in the future.

  21. Well said by XanC · · Score: 1

    I don't think I've ever agreed with you before, spun!

    1. Re:Well said by spun · · Score: 1

      Libertarians suck! Wait, what did you say? Sorry, that's just kind of an automatic response from me. Property is theft! It's like Tourette Syndrome. The free market is broken! I call it 'Libertariette Syndrome.'

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:Well said by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      I think the official unofficial name for that is "Slashdot Tourette Syndrome", or STS.

      Unfortunately, while cases are well documented and numerous, little if any research has gone into treating this disease.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
  22. Airplanes! by SnarfQuest · · Score: 5, Funny

    So that's why they flew air force one over New York City. They were making a live action version of this comic book.

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    1. Re:Airplanes! by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      No you dumb fuck ..

      Its only air force one when the prez is on board.

      All other times its just a vc-25 I think is the military id for it. pretty much just a 747

      Whooooooooooooosh~

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  23. Re:Who thinks of this stuff? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

    They're not used to fuel hate, they're used to familiarize soldiers with the appearance of specific human beings so that they don't pass by unnoticed. Kind of like "wanted" posters, but made in a way that they're likely to be looked at more often.

    Which is probably true of the original decks distributed to US soldiers in Iraq. But is definitely not true of the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands more decks sold on ebay and hundreds of websites to those who have zero chance of encountering the people depicted on the cards.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  24. I like the book! by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 1

    I agree as well, just replace the 9/11 imagery with more generic disasters and it'd be fine.

    The only thing that did annoy me was the christian cross on the last page, though at least it was very subtle.

  25. Re:The very next thing that will happen by reginaldo · · Score: 2, Informative

    The coloring book was created and posted 3 years ago, meaning during the Bush administration.

    Now, would you care to rescind your flamebait?

  26. Wrong again by spun · · Score: 1, Insightful

    By your logic, anything the government published at one time but no longer publishes has been 'censored.' Do you really not understand how that dilutes the real meaning of the word 'censorship?'

    FEMA was not 'forced' to remove anything. FEMA is a government agency, with limited funds. They put up something they thought would be useful. People did not find it useful, and they asked FEMA not to waste any resources on it. FEMA took it down. The work is still available, if anyone wants it. The government has not banned the coloring book. The government is just not wasting our tax dollars hosting that worthless content anymore.

    Calling this censorship is simply hyperbole, and a knee-jerk attempt at whipping up some anti-government, anti-PC hysteria.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Wrong again by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2, Informative

      Calling this censorship is simply hyperbole, and a knee-jerk attempt at whipping up some anti-government, anti-PC hysteria.

      Well, that's funny, because I am a supporter of the current administration, and took time off of work to help Obama be elected.

      I am pro-government. I am also pro full-disclosure, transparency, and full discussion. I am not so pro-government that I take everything they do as good, and am very relieved that Obama just hinted he would revisit the state secrets issue. I think government only works when it is of the people, by the people, and for the people.

      As you can see from my recent article, I have an interest in emergency preparedness. I looked through the FEMA coloring book and, first, it's not by FEMA. It's by a local emergency preparedness team. Second, it's a really good job. I'd show it to any child. It would help the child understand how to cope with an emergency by being prepared.

      So, hyperbole, knee-jerk, and hysteria on you, sir.

    2. Re:Wrong again by spun · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You should have been more clear rather than demeaning yourself by rushing a sound-bite out in an attempt to get first post. You are Bruce Fricken Perens for crying out loud. You don't need first post to get noticed. And you don't need to put your thoughts into dumbed-down sound bite form. Allow me to quote from your first post:

      Censorship is a bigger danger to the American Public than any FEMA publication.

      Please, explain to us how that is not hyperbole. It is implying that removal of this publication is somehow a big danger to the American Public. Do you really believe that the removal of a coloring book from the FEMA site is an actual danger, or even some kind of warning sign of danger to come? If so, please explain why. If not, please admit that you engaged in a teeny tiny bit of hyperbole, probably brought on in a misguided attempt to get 'first post' on Slashdot.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    3. Re:Wrong again by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I am well aware that I am "Bruce Fricken Perens" :-)

      Well, I see a few problems here.

      I actually read the book. 911 is not centrally featured, it's just one of a number of disasters. There are also fires, floods, etc. And there is a really nice talk, at a child's level, on how to be prepared. Now, a child who knows how to be prepared is going to be more confident of getting through an emergency.

      I had a big demonstration of this during a dinner-time earthquake a few years ago. Valerie and I just looked at each other in shock across the table, and it was Stanley, then 7 years old, who said "duck and cover!" and got us moving. He'd been well trained in school.

      So, I'm bothered that this resource has been removed just because it had photos of the world trade center burning and being hit by an airplane that a child could color in. That's how you get a child to think about things. Most children would draw in people either running, or helping others, or catching the bad guys. Or all three. That's how they think, and that's how they tell others what they are thinking, which a parent can use as a cue to talk things through further. I downloaded the PDF. My kid is a bit old for this now (he's 9) but he is pretty well trained in self-reliance anyway.

      I am also disturbed that some over-sensitive people get to tell our government how to give all of us services. That sounds undemocratic to me.

    4. Re:Wrong again by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      Instead of quibbling over whether it's censorship or not, perhaps we should focus on the problem of the "shouting down" of discourse by public outcry. Whether you call it censorship or not is really secondary.

      (And, one person's "PC hysteria" is someone else's "reasonable reaction to concern." This is also a problem: if the book was called "Why God wanted the people in New Orleans to Drown," I think I would have called for its removal. Would that have been PC hysteria on my part?

    5. Re:Wrong again by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please show us where the article makes any claims whatsoever as to why this coloring book was taken down. This is the problem I have with claims of censorship, for all we know, FEMA had a contract to keep the thing up for six years and it just expired. Or they ran our of space on the web server. Or it was an accident. We just don't know, and assuming it was due to public outcry is unwarranted.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    6. Re:Wrong again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You have a lower uid than Perens, so I am agreeing with you.

      If you don't understand, please consult the Slashdot Handbook. Thank you.

    7. Re:Wrong again by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      (And, one person's "PC hysteria" is someone else's "reasonable reaction to concern." This is also a problem: if the book was called "Why God wanted the people in New Orleans to Drown," I think I would have called for its removal. Would that have been PC hysteria on my part?

      If my comment were called "Your mom is a dirty whore", then it would be reasonable to mod it as Flamebait.

      The coloring book is called "A Scary Thing Happened". It's not called "Noble Jihadis Destroyed Democracy". What exactly are you trying to say?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Wrong again by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      from the article near the end.

      After people complained, FEMA removed the coloring book from its site.

      It also says

      "The coloring book, which was put online in 2003, was removed last week and FEMA is currently reviewing all Web content designed and posted by the previous administration," a FEMA spokesman said in a statement.

    9. Re:Wrong again by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      I'm trying to isolate the principle at play here. It's not "FEMA needs to have every viewpoint expressed." Usually, concerns about freedom of expression revolve around very unpopular viewpoints.

      Given that you and I agree that we would want "Noble Jihadis Destroyed Democracy" and "Why God wanted the people in New Orleans to Drown," just what is the basis for our making that demand? The fact that there is considerable discretion involved puts this outside of the realm of censorship - the fact that the discretion is largely based on popular outcry puts in the realm of the defense of important, but not universally popular, ideas.

    10. Re:Wrong again by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 1

      Bruce, you are a smart guy, a tremendous supporter of Free and Open Source software, and probably 10x smarter than the average /. denizen. So hopefully you understand that while governments pretend to represent the interest of those who help appoint them, they in fact consistently represent their own. They consistently attempt to transfer power and money away from others and to themselves. They tend to be composed of people of great intelligence, ambition and drive, and initially they are often ethical and principled people as well. But there is something about a system of unlawful power and control over others that tends to erode ethics and principle over time. Every decision tends to be a compromise between the bad and the worse. Every decision represents an attempt to force some people to do the will of others, to act against their own interests, under threat of prison rape and death. The "decision" is merely which lobbying group gets to be on top. Government is at its very core the institutionalization of one of the most evil religious beliefs that has ever existed: that some people have the right to control others without the latter's consent. You say you are "pro-government," yet you've demonstrated by your actions that you are neither evil nor stupid. The only other possibility is that you are misinformed; that you do not understand the nature of what it is that you support. I would like to challenge you to become informed. LewRockwell.com is one of many great places to start; the link in my sig is another. Both sites are unashamedly libertarian, as I am; however, you needn't be in order to understand and appreciate that government is evil. Actually, governments act against genuine liberal interests (e.g., the environment, free speech, due process, medical and religious freedom) just as often as conservative ones. You probably agree that the Bush administration was evil to the core, but every power the Bush regime appropriated for its own use still exists and even if you support the way Obama uses this power, eventually another regime will arise which you do not, and these powers will then be used against you. In the end, freedom and despotism are the only options; there is no in-between, because once power can be abused, it will be abused, and one will surely and inevitably give way to the other. By being "pro-government" you are throwing your hand in with the despots. I would urge you to reconsider.

    11. Re:Wrong again by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      I agree that government is a tool for the administration of injustice, all too often. And I have some libertarian sympathies. But I feel that yes, it is just and right for government to administer control with the (usually unspoken but always there) threat of violence. In recent time we have the example of the perversion of a free market by greed and stupidity - a free market of financial instruments in a large developed nation can only exist under tight control to assure honesty, transparency, and accuracy. And unfortunately one of the key assumptions of libertarianism is a sort of social Darwinism. If your neighbor isn't smart enough to manage his own affairs and keep out of yours, you're going to do everything to him that the worst despot would do.

    12. Re:Wrong again by spun · · Score: 1

      Just a note, I've read the coloring book now and I want to see it back up. It's a good resource. Even the one controversial picture is important, 9/11 is a relevant disaster to use to illustrate the point about media coverage reminding a kid about what they have been through, over and over. There is no controversy as far as I'm concerned, kids don't even need to know what the hell 9/11 is to get the point.

      The article is a VERY clever troll, in the Christian Science Monitor, which I consider to be one of the last bastions of good reporting. But it just lost some of my respect. Still, good troll, it got us both. :-)

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    13. Re:Wrong again by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      Had Slashdot been handling the story well, there would have been a link to the (easily available) PDF right at the top. I read it pretty early in the discussion.

      But then, the discussion exposes a difference I've noticed before. I am bringing up my child to be an adult. That means that he should, at some point, be fully equipped to handle all of the various challenges that adults are faced with. So, he has, for example, tasted wine (he thinks at his age that it tastes like poison) and knows that it is no forbidden fruit that need exert a special attraction on him. I will refrain from explaining other similar situations to the Slashdot audience.

      Some folks who actually saw the PDF were scandalized that I would show it to a child. I wonder if they are going to show their kids out of their front door at 18 with no tools whatsoever to handle certain situations that they are almost certain to encounter.

      Bruce

  27. Why is it a bad thing? by mengel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because the people who are asking them to take it down are silly, that's why. Things like coloring or drawing pictures (and talking about the pictures thus drawn) of traumatic events is good therapy. Removing something that supports that is silly.

    So yes, the government should be accountable to the people. But they should also know when a few people are being silly and complaining about something that is actually worthwhile.

    On the other hand, kids that are of a coloring-book age (like my 5-year-old) at this point probably don't remember September 11, 2001, anyhow.

    --
    - "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'
    1. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by eln · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On the other hand, kids that are of a coloring-book age (like my 5-year-old) at this point probably don't remember September 11, 2001, anyhow.

      Isn't that the point? To explain a tragic and significant event in what is to them American History in an age-appropriate way? I don't see what's wrong with that.

    2. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Since it happened 8 years ago, I'm am POSITIVE that your 5-year-old doesn't remember it.

    3. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by unlametheweak · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Since people think you are Insightful (and I don't) maybe you can clue me in. You said:

      Because the people who are asking them to take it down are silly, that's why.

      What evidence do you have that they are "silly"?

      Things like coloring or drawing pictures (and talking about the pictures thus drawn) of traumatic events is good therapy.

      What evidence do you have that making children draw and colour tramatic events is good therapy? Do you recommend that children be given colouring books picturing Jeffrey Dahmer raping and eating people as therapy? Do you think such a colouring book is a good educational tool?

      Removing something that supports that is silly.

      What evidence do you have that removing this is "silly"?

      But they should also know when a few people are being silly and complaining about something that is actually worthwhile.

      How is the government supposed to know when people are being "silly"? and what metrics does the government use to decide that making children colour and draw morbid pictures is "good therapy"?

    4. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by jae471 · · Score: 1

      Unless she's a Bene Gesserit abomination...

    5. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Americano · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What evidence do you have that making children draw and colour tramatic events is good therapy?

      There's a whole branch of psychology known as Art Therapy built around this premise. You may believe psychotherapy is a bunch of hooey, but there is certainly a reasonable body of evidence to suggest that creative processes, such as drawing & coloring, can be useful therapeutic tools for children who have affected by some sort of traumatic event.

      Now whether or not the objections are valid or silly, I cannot say - I'd have to defer to the wisdom of trained & accredited psychologists to determine whether or not these particular materials in this particular case had any sort of therapeutic benefit.

      How is the government supposed to know when people are being "silly"?

      I would say the guideline would look something like this: when you have a bunch of people with no psychological qualifications whatsoever complaining about something that a large majority of psychologists actually feel is beneficial, the whiners are being silly. Disclaimer: I do not know if that is the case here, but the government certainly should be capable of determining whether or not an objection has merit.

    6. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by dontmakemethink · · Score: 1

      Based on 3rd party accounts, I remember a lot about what happened before I was born. Granted, Pearl Harbour doesn't keep me up nights, but a 5-year-old seeing 9/11 fotage for the first time might be kept up more than a few nights.

      Think that nobody in NYC born after 9/11 was scared by the recent Air Force 1 fly-bys?

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
    7. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by unlametheweak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a whole branch of psychology known as Art Therapy [wikipedia.org] built around this premise.

      I am aware of Art Therapy. I was referring more specifically to the FEMA colouring book though. I am not aware that children who have lived in New York during 9/11 are the only people who have access to this coloring book. Though I think the book has been published many years too late for it to be of any benefit.

      That being said, and on the more tangential topic of Art Therapy; neither the original poster nor you have given any evidence as to the efficacy of Art Therapy. According to Wikipedia "According to the American Art Therapy Association, art therapy is based on the belief ...". Beliefs are fine and dandy, but evidence and proof is necessary for people who don't live on Faith alone.

      I would say the guideline would look something like this: when you have a bunch of people with no psychological qualifications whatsoever complaining about something that a large majority of psychologists actually feel is beneficial, the whiners are being silly.

      That has some merit. I myself have a lot of education in the social sciences and psychology (though I am not an expert or credentialed) and have found that most people would rather believe in folklore than science. I would take your definition of silliness more seriously if it had more logic to it than just majority opinion. Some people can't just live by Karma alone.

    8. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Think that nobody in NYC born after 9/11 was scared by the recent Air Force 1 fly-bys?

      Yeah, probably not. What would be scary about it for a 7 year old? All I imagine them saying would be "Cool, a plane!".

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    9. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      You have to admit that the dissonance between jolly children's pasttime and horrific mass murder is either funny or horrifying, depending on how cynical you are.

      Come one come all, play 9/11 Jenga! Splish Splash on leaping out a window to your doom 9/11 waterslide! Pretend you're in a jumble of bodies and debris with 9/11 twister!

      --
      It's been a long time.
    10. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by fbjon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Though I think the book has been published many years too late for it to be of any benefit.

      I looked through the book itself, and the twin towers "scene" is just featured as a cover page. The actual colouring book is more generic, about tornadoes, house fires, etc. The first page asks the reader to draw him/herself before it happened, and further on there's an outline of a face where you can draw how you felt afterwards, also explaining that it can happen without warning, the repeated news on TV, feeling ill afterwards, and eventually getting better. I think it's an excellent resource, and pulling it because of the twin towers is just bogus.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    11. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by unlametheweak · · Score: 1

      I think it's an excellent resource, and pulling it because of the twin towers is just bogus.

      I had a brief glance at it. I agree pulling the book because of one image is (or may be) an over-reaction. I should have referred specifically to the picture rather than the entire book in my post.

    12. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by fbjon · · Score: 1

      Regarding the cover image, as a general resource for most children it's good, but I would agree that handing this book to children whose parents were killed in 9/11 sounds like a bad idea. My point is just that that's a special case.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    13. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Americano · · Score: 2, Informative

      I am aware of Art Therapy. I was referring more specifically to the FEMA colouring book though.

      I'm sorry, this is laziness masquerading as skepticism on your part. A casual review of google search results ("Art Therapy" effectiveness) yielded plenty of references to papers & research discussing the effectiveness of art therapy. There is plenty of research out there, and simply stating "I don't believe it until I see the research," is a nice way of saying "I've never bothered to look."

      Art Therapy, Research and Evidence-based Practice by Andrea Gilroy has a whole chapter devoted to "the evidence base for art therapy with children and adolescents," so you might want to start with a copy of that from your local university library if you're interested in the evidence for the efficacy of this therapy.

      You could also peruse this excerpt for a discussion of art therapy that seems specific to a discussion of children coping with serious diseases, but talks significantly about the emotional & mental well-being that the art therapy can promote for children subjected to the stress, trauma, and fear of a medical diagnosis like leukemia.

      There are many other references available, just a quick google search away - please avail yourselves of them.

      I would take your definition of silliness more seriously if it had more logic to it than just majority opinion.

      I didn't suggest "majority" opinion though, I suggested "a majority of experts' opinions" would be a reasonable criteria for determining if a complaint or objection had merit.

      What other reasonable method would you suggest we follow to determine the appropriateness of this sort of material? Most people are not psychology experts, and so do not - in general - have the training & experience necessary to judge whether or not a book like this is a useful tool for child psychologists, and it is not feasible for every single person to become an expert in every field necessary to make sound judgements about these disagreements.

      So in practical terms, if there is a dispute over the appropriateness of the material, and on the one side you have a group of laymen who have no particular knowledge of the field, and on the other side, you have a group of people who have spent long years research, training, and work in the field, whose judgement do you trust?

    14. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by conlaw · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, kids that are of a coloring-book age (like my 5-year-old) at this point probably don't remember September 11, 2001, anyhow.

      That's the reason that the book as it was should have been pulled and re-written. Explaining "a scary thing" and how people respond to it should be based on incidents that will be understandable to the "kids of coloring-book age." The events of 9/11 and the utter screw-up surrounding Katrina are now too far away in both place and time to be relevant to most kids of that age. The "scary thing" should be something that they can relate to, like "Mr. Jones's house caught fire" or "two cars hit each other in front of our house." Then the book can explain the role of fire fighters, paramedics, ambulances, etc. in an understandable context.

    15. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      That's why it's crucial to use the Gom Jabbar on them as early as possible.

    16. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Americano · · Score: 1

      How do you know what I'm thinking?

      Because you're demanding evidence be provided for something that even the most casual web search would have yielded the results you seek.

      You're a Troll and I'm wasting my time.

      Then I'm one of the most helpful & civil trolls you're ever likely to meet. You made a bunch of handwaving assertions and then claimed that "without evidence," my point was invalid. I then helpfully provided evidence, and pointed out that it was all very readily available on the web, and you dismiss it as trolling.

      You are hyping up Art Therapy to boost a bogus point

      So let me see if I have this straight:

      1. You assert that having children paint and color pictures related to their trauma in response to that trauma is not good therapy.
      2. I respond by pointing out that Art Therapy actually is a recognized psychological field, and that it is shown to be at least partially effective in helping children deal with trauma;
      3. You then state that you needed hard evidence to prove that Art Therapy is effective.
      4. I then provided you with a few links related to the effectiveness of Art Therapy, and pointed out that the only thing preventing you from finding them yourself was laziness.

      Where's the bogus point exactly? You may not like my assessment of your level of interest, but your hurt feelings do not invalidate my point about art therapy.

      it is obvious to me that you don't have any education in Art Therapy other than what you just recently Googled

      A point I made abundantly clear in my original post, with my disclaimer that I am in no way qualified to judge whether or not the book in question would be USEFUL as a form of art therapy. Your lack of credentials does not seem to have prevented you from declaring that an entire field of psychology is bogus, however.

      I doubt you actually read the book that you found on Amazon

      I never claimed to have read the entire thing. I read the first chapter of the book I linked (which is available on Amazon), and I also read the entirety of the other excerpt I linked. Did you read even a bit of them? Or are you just digging your heels in on your position that Art Therapy is bogus and cannot have any evidence that it's effective?

      Neither of those references make me an expert in Art Therapy or psychology, but they did provide enough detail that I believe there's some amount of usefulness to art therapy as a means for coping with trauma and distress. In similar fashion, you don't need to be a board certified cardiac specialist to understand that an EKG machine can be a very useful diagnostic tool.

      I probably am an idiot.

      I didn't say that, I said you were lazy. You sit there demanding to be shown evidence and literature that is already available to even the most casual researcher. You can call me a troll all you wish, but the fact remains that I answered your questions with perfectly reasonable responses. I then proceeded to set you on the road to discovery with the references I provided you, both of which contain numerous other references to studies, papers, and articles.

      For someone who's (as you claimed) well-educated in social sciences and psychology, the existence of an entire field of psychology should not need to be spoon-fed to you by me. You're remarkably incurious about a field that I would assume interests you, if you're well-educated in it. I can only ascribe that lack of curiosity & willful ignorance to laziness, which masquerades as condescending skepticism.

      And a good evening to you.

    17. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by unlametheweak · · Score: 1

      How do you know what I'm thinking?

      Because you're demanding evidence be provided for something that even the most casual web search would have yielded the results you seek.

      Lies. I haven't found any evidence to this. You get up-modded for a red-hearing Troll and I get down-modded; now that is proving your point in an ironic way that lay people make silly decisions. One reason why I'm not going to read further. Being here is useless to me. Just because you believe something is true doesn't mean it is.

      You never did offer any evidence of longitudinal double-blind studies, instead you make accusations of me of being lazy and implications that I am stupid.

      the existence of an entire field of psychology should not need to be spoon-fed to you by me.

      What does that mean? Are you going to point me to more Google links? It doesn't matter, I have often spent hours arguing point by point various social science issues. Most people spend a few seconds doing Google searches to "prove" their points and they get up-modded just as fast. It's really not worth being on Slashdot. If you can prove your point then I will respect you.

      Oh and the Moderators here can Fuck off.

    18. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      FEMA shouldn't be directly responding to public opinion at ALL, especially if there is evidence this helps children who have been through a traumatic event. I'd probably be of the opposite if it were something that offended me, but it should go both ways in that case.

      And that's who it was for, not mentally healthy children, but kids who went through trauma. Specifically large "mass" traumas like a houses or apartment buildings burning down, a hurricane, a tornado, or a terrorist attack that destroyed 2 buildings and 3 thousand people. I don't even think they mentioned terrorists, they just called it a "bad thing that happened", and a kid who was affected by the event would recognize it.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    19. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      Oh dear, but Abominations pass the Gom Jabbar easily. You need to put them through a spice overdose to check for Abomination.

    20. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am aware of Art Therapy. I was referring more specifically to the FEMA colouring book though.

      Wouldn't the coloring book be Art Therapy? I'm not sure I follow you on that one.

      I am not aware that children who have lived in New York during 9/11 are the only people who have access to this coloring book.

      They've got this new invention, it's only been around about 100 years now. It's called a TeeVee, TV for short. Through the magic of the TV and news media, millions of kids saw the 9/11 attacks. I myself, thousands of miles away, watched them fall.

      I would easilly wager hundreds of thousands, if not a million or two, children saw the planes hit those towers and watched them fall. Do you think none of them were traumatized? Furthermore, the book was not about 9/11, it was about "Bad Things". You may have noted the title: "Bad Things Happen". It gives it away. 9/11 was mentioned, but it was by no means a book targeted at children who had been traumatized by 9/11 specifically. It was for kids who had been through, or were affected by, a major tragedy. Most ANY major tragedy, pretty much all the natural disasters were covered too.

      Beliefs are fine and dandy, but evidence and proof is necessary for people who don't live on Faith alone.

      All of science is based on a belief, or hypothesis of some kind. As it developes, it becomes a theory, or framework which explains reality. The theory holds until it is proven wrong, or a more accurate theory is developed. Since there are no perfect theories, they are all proven wrong eventually, or at least inadequate. Even Newtonian calculus, which held for a couple hundred years and is adequate for most applications today, has been proven incorrect. So don't attempt to invalidate a modern therapudic technique because it's "just a theory". You are revealing your ignorance when you do.

      Lastly:

      Though I think the book has been published many years too late for it to be of any benefit.

      The book was published six years ago, the 9/11/2001 was less than eight years ago. So, 4-7 year olds at the time of the attack were too young to have been traumatized by the event, and perhaps receive some benefit from the coloring book? I'd like to see some of your precious evidence that shows four year olds can't be traumatized!!

      You are ignorant on the subject, and you clearly do not wish to educate yourself. If you did, you might have to alter your opinion, so that obviously won't happen.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    21. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by unlametheweak · · Score: 1

      Another Troll post. I'll point out the most obvious biases here. The rant into Newtonian calculus etcetera I will let you have as a freebie:

      So don't attempt to invalidate a modern therapudic technique because it's "just a theory". You are revealing your ignorance when you do.

      You are ignorant on the subject, and you clearly do not wish to educate yourself. If you did, you might have to alter your opinion, so that obviously won't happen.

    22. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter, I have often spent hours arguing point by point various social science issues.

      I dunno, maybe if you informed yourself about the issues you were arguing you might have better luck? I'm just saying...

      And google, as most IT professionals will tell you, is so useful for finding accurate information* it's almost obscene. There are a number of professional resources online, many free to the public, from which one can gleen useful, and trustworthy, information.

      *Caveat: you have to know how to recognize a reliable source, and unless you are certain about the source - like getting info about microsoft products from microsoft.com - you should always use multiple references. Oddly enough, that's exactly the same principle as normal research. Funny that.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    23. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by unlametheweak · · Score: 1

      OK, this is the last time before I put you on my Foes list (so it won't be so easy for me to see your bullshit posts) that I will point out your bullshit so hopefully other people will realize that they should ignore you.

      I dunno, maybe if you informed yourself about the issues you were arguing you might have better luck? I'm just saying...

      Troll. I (generally) only reply to topics that I am well informed about. I have often spent sometimes hours validating my arguments with reputable sources. Anybody can spend a few seconds finding a link. Spending great amounts of time and effort refuting bad and ill-informed arguments isn't worth the effort, especially when it is obvious that the person will disagree with me not because I make bad arguments, but because the issue goes against his belief system. Arguing against people like you who make things up, lie, and generally Troll is a no-win situation. Your sound-bites are more likely to get up-modded anyway. Well-researched arguments are generally very lengthy and boring to read and they seem to get ignored (here on Slashdot anyways).

      And google, as most IT professionals will tell you, is so useful for finding accurate information* it's almost obscene.

      Another red herring Troll. The topic isn't 1) IT professionals nor 2) finding good IT information. If you had bothered to inform and educate yourself, finding good quality scientific medical information on the Internet is difficult without subscribing to professional services. Although Google Books is making things easier these days. Still, it's a shitty Troll.

    24. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Americano · · Score: 1

      I haven't found any evidence to this

      It's clear that this is your response to everything you don't agree with now. That's fine, your ignorance is not my problem.

      What does that mean?

      It means that you are intellectually dishonest and willfully ignorant, and make up for it through belligerent name-calling. Rather than look at the references I provided you with, you have decided that anything that disagrees with you must be wrong, a troll, and a waste of your time. It seems that what I first thought was simple laziness really is stupidity.

      Good day.

    25. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by Americano · · Score: 1

      I (generally) only reply to topics that I am well informed about.

      Ah, this must be the exception to your general rule, then? You're clearly uninformed on this topic, and rather than spend even 2 moments looking at references provided to you, you are simply asserting that anybody who disagrees with you is wrong while providing no evidence to support your own arguments.

      There is a troll in this thread. It's not me, and it's not Bigjeff5 either. That only leaves you, UTW. Surprise surprise.

      And I welcome you to mark me as a foe as well. That way I'll know when I'm about to read something astoundingly ignorant - it'll have a red dot next to your name.

    26. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by dizzydogg · · Score: 1

      Agreed, everyone should stop now and actualy read the book (I know, I know this is slashdot, RTFA is a 4 letter swear, but its almost all pictures and only uses small words!). It has very little to do with 9/11 other than the cover (which may have been a bad choice, seeing as how anyone old enough to remember it is too old to be using colouring books) the rest of the book being about fires and floods. At most they should redo the cover to something less controversial and more generaly applicable (flood, fire, earthquake, tornado).

    27. Re:Why is it a bad thing? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      I believe the point is that it's age-inappropriate to needlessly try to explain tragic events to young children. Obviously if they experienced it first hand, then they needed to deal with that, but that's no longer the case for this particular event among the age range that enjoys coloring.

  28. In another news... by hackingbear · · Score: 1

    TV news anchor: In another news, due to the lack of any major natural disaster, ... *cough* *cough*, ... hope I'm not catching that little swine flu virus, FEMA moved to create a PR disaster by publishing a 9/11 coloring book for children who get extra off-school days from the flu.

  29. I want one! by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    That's so stupid it's passed around to the other side to become genius. I totally want a copy.

    What's the spirally thing to the left? A tornado or the Tasmanian Devil?

  30. Re:And Does The Book by mdarksbane · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Umm... it's still torture, even if you can argue that it was defensible.

    If I walked into a camp in Pakistan and shot Osama Bin Laden in the head, it would still be murder, or at the very least, assassination (aka, fancy political murder). Whether it was justified or not does not change what the action was.

    Now, given that everyone tortured under the Bush regime had *not* been committed of a crime, that multiple serious studies have shown that torturing is not a useful way to acquire reliable information, and that there has been no proof submitted to the public that the torturing was in any way useful... I'd argue the justification of it, too.

  31. I love it. by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

    FEMA selling the books == indoctrination.
    FEMA removing the books == indoctrination.

    If selling the books or removing the books both result in indoctrination, does that mean FEMA == indoctrination? :)

    It just goes to show you the power of perspective. Mine is that FEMA shouldn't have published the thing in the first place, because it does nothing to actually prepare kids for disaster events (a stated purpose of FEMA). I wouldn't call its publication indoctrination and I wouldn't call its removal censorship: like many others here I see it as FEMA deciding against wasting taxpayer money with this particular method.

    1. Re:I love it. by shaitand · · Score: 1

      It wasn't to help kids prepare for disaster, it was to help kids who had already experienced the disaster to cope.

      They pulled it for the wrong reason, government agencies shouldn't act/not act for PR purposes but they should have pulled it anyway. 9/11 was a long time ago and kids who experienced it are shaving now, not coloring.

  32. don't even let your kids watch this stuff. by tjstork · · Score: 1

    There are some things children are just NOT ready for, and watching 3000 people get killed is one of them. The best you could do is desensitize them to killing.

    Right now, that book would be something helpful, but five years down the road, every cool kid will be laughing at this book and at 9/11. "Something scary happened"... will become a mockery.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:don't even let your kids watch this stuff. by Chyeld · · Score: 1

      Yes, because when your world is falling down, it's simple to shield the kids from seeing it. And after all, since these things are all planned out, all you really need to do is make sure they aren't watching when it happens, right?

      I wasn't a kid when 9/11 hit, but I was when Challenger exploded. We were in school and the teachers were in a panic when it happened because they were televising it to the older students live (one of the crew was a school teacher and NASA thought it'd be cool). They didn't mean to show their emotions, they were doing their level best to act professional and not let on anything had happened, but we knew. And we knew it was bad enough that they were scared of telling us.

      I don't know today, which would have been better, if they had just gone and told us or not. But I do know that I was shaking when I got home, expecting the end of the world.

    2. Re:don't even let your kids watch this stuff. by tjstork · · Score: 1

      Yes, because when your world is falling down, it's simple to shield the kids from seeing it

      It's funny but father was in sales, and just also brought up to be a man's man and be supremely confident, nothing can go wrong, a role which played pretty well, and I don't remember ever being afraid as long as my Dad was around. Vietnam, Nixon's resignation, the terrible recession of the late 1970s... my old man would figure a way out and do it with a smile.

      Turns out, that as I get older, I find out that my Dad pretty much thought the sky was falling all the time, but just kinda kept it from us because he had such a sense of duty. That he was in sales, was that, he could actually do it.

      But it makes me think that, teaching young men to just portray supreme confidence, to be Jim Kirks and not Lee Adamas could probably have a huge difference on how children are raised. It's almost like you have to practice being a "man's man", just to raise your kids.

      --
      This is my sig.
  33. Spoon FAIL by CaptainStumpy · · Score: 1

    Someone please tell my why the girl is trying to eat a bowl of fruit with a spoon?? To me, this is a better reason why the book should be taken offline.

    --
    It will be better to purchase from an owner who is a good farmer and a good builder.
    1. Re:Spoon FAIL by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Someone please tell my why the girl is trying to eat a bowl of fruit with a spoon??

      She's in shock.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  34. Re:And Does The Book by hazem · · Score: 1

    I think our poseur of a president should watch those videos every morning as he eats breakfast. Then maybe he won't be so quick to call waterboarding "torture."

    It has nothing to do with them... however evil, horrible, or unlike us they are... or even how much they deserve to have horrible things happen to them.

    It's about US, our values, and what we stand for. It's about being willing to say we won't sacrifice our principles just because we're frightened of some bogeyman.

    There is always some bogeyman and if you're going to give up your ideals just because you're afraid of the bogeyman-du-jour, then why bother having ideals and simply admit that you're a coward who can't face a dangerous world without giving up your principles.

    As for waterboarding being torture, we have actually executed people for doing it. It's hard to really have principles when you're a hypocrite.

  35. Coloring Book by Niris · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those of you too lazy to go searching for it (I'm rather surprised I'm not in this group this time) here's a copy of the coloring book. I'm sitting at work coloring it right now, yay!

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/pdf/femacoloringbook.pdf

    1. Re:Coloring Book by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      For those of you too lazy to go searching for it (I'm rather surprised I'm not in this group this time)

      Much like with mod points, Slashcode randomly distributes Desire to Read and Understand TFA to a few select slashdotters each day. Your number must have come up!

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
  36. Bad call by PMuse · · Score: 1

    Having now read the entire coloring book (censorship sucks), I would share it with my young son if a disaster were to touch him. I regard it as an excellent free resource (go Government!).

    Bad call, FEMA.

    --
    "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
  37. Re:And Does The Book by NiteShaed · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah, it's only torture when other countries do it. When our country does it, it's a valuable interrogation technique.

    But hey, just because torture is generally considered an unreliable method of gaining information, why shouldn't we do it anyway? It proves we're tough, right?

    --
    Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
  38. Mod Parent Up by necro81 · · Score: 1

    +1 Informative

    Wish I had points today. Thanks for the link. You're spot on.

  39. RTFA by spun · · Score: 1

    And then, please show us, either in the summary, or the linked article, where it says that FEMA removed the coloring book due to pressure or complaints.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:RTFA by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      Olmstead indicates that people have been taking the book the wrong way. That's enough for you to connect the dots.

  40. Mod parent up! - time has passed... by fantomas · · Score: 1

    "On the other hand, kids that are of a coloring-book age (like my 5-year-old) at this point probably don't remember September 11, 2001, anyhow."

    Such as obvious point and I'd completely missed it. You're very right! What age is this colouring book aimed at? under 10s I guess, who would have been less than toddlers when it happened and so won't have any memory of the event. Very good point my friend.

    I completely agree with you - I think colouring books to get kids talking about a traumatic event and enable them to manage their feelings is a really good idea, I am all for it. Look at all the pictures drawn by small children after terrible events (e.g. the Tsunami in Asia a few years ago) and it seems really clear that art is therapeutic and a way to help kids talk about frightening events. But you make the really obvious point that anybody who can remember 9/11 is at least a teenager by now. So maybe other resources would be more helpful to help teenagers overcome bad memories of 9/11.

    However if the book is more of a general resource for children dealing with a number of possible traumatic 'environmental' events and the 9/11 pictures are only one of several examples then by all means continue to publish.

  41. The article does not say why the book was removed by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whoah there, Bruce. Please point out where the article claims that FEMA took down the coloring book due to pressure. Actually, the article does not state WHY the book was removed. Unless you have access to information we don't, you are making completely unwarranted assumptions.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  42. The book is old by wjousts · · Score: 1

    The summary doesn't mention that this book has been available since about 2003 and only now is it suddenly a problem.

  43. Re:Who thinks of this stuff? by drakaan · · Score: 1

    ...okay, so I guess that means that websites like the smoking gun fuel hate?

    Not sure how voyeurism and souvenir/collector mentality equates to that. If mugshots and wanted posters are used to help identify fugitives, then TSG is being evil for using them as a marketing tool?

    Help me understand what you're trying to say. If it's that you just don't like the cards, cool, I'm fine with that. I'm not a big fan of opportunism either. I just wanted to point out that the use of such cards is not new or (in the case of the people the cards were originally produced for) a tool to foment hate.

    --
    "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
  44. Re:Who thinks of this stuff? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

    Dunno what TSG is.

    My point was simply what I wrote - the original intent was not necessarily to promote mindless hate, but that hasn't stopped thousands of people from doing just that with them.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  45. Re:The article does not say why the book was remov by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

    I am going by the Olmstead quotes in the article. He states that people have been taking the book the wrong way.

  46. Re:useful security measures by srleffler · · Score: 1

    Banning knives and boxcutters on planes was probably useful too. Yes, lots of dangerous stuff can still get on, but the restrictions make it harder for a terrorist to threaten the passengers into submission. Closing the "secure" areas of airports to people who don't have tickets was probably a good idea too. Many other countries already did this before 9/11, but it took 9/11 to change the policy here in the US.

  47. Maybe people were complaining by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

    because it looked like a 2 year old drew it? I dunno, I read through it, and it was pretty shitty. I can't exactly "draw" per se, but I feel confident that I could re-do that coloring book in about 10 minutes at a much much higher quality.

    That said, 9/11 and the Twin Towers could hardly be considered a primary concern of the book. It focused more on burning houses, to be honest. The terrorist attack was simply a "bad thing" among many of the "bad things" that happen. It certainly didn't take them more than 5-10 minutes to produce, and apparently it has been up for a while. Maybe they just figured they'd, you know, include those thousands of kids who lost family members in the WTC terrist attack, plus you know, the millions of kids who saw it over and over again on TV that day.

    It wasn't "teaching about terrorists" or any BS like that, it was for helping kids who had been traumetized deal with it. The appropriate response for someone who doesn't feel that is appropriate for their child is to not give it to their child, not get it pulled from the website. At that point you're being childish, and might need to use the coloring book yourself to work through your trauma.

    Just a thought.

    --
    Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
  48. Great idea, perhaps we should copy it by rcastro0 · · Score: 1

    It was about a year ago that in an unfortunate event a 5-year old brazilian girl called "Isabella" was thrown off a building to her death. The perpetrator, police found out, was either her biological father or his new wife (perhaps both). Isabella became a national celebrity, and was for months the #1 news story in every media. Of course even a few young kids heard about her.

    Why did no one think of doing a "Isabella falling off the building" coloring book? Perhaps a "Isabella being pushed through the window by evil step-mother" coloring book would help the young ones deal with it? Genius!

    --
    Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
  49. Re:useful security measures by Duradin · · Score: 1

    There's lots of dangerous things already on board the airplane.

    Banning knives and boxcutters is just security theater. Right up there with the liquids ban.

    (And if you don't think the knife and boxcutter ban is security theater, look at the list of very knife like or stabbity stabbity objects that are A-OK to carry on.)

  50. Say what? by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 1

    It isn't the government's place to do what?

  51. OK, saw it - looks like a great idea by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 1

    The next comment had the Smoking Gun link. I think these folk did an excellent job, and I don't see what anyone could have gotten legitimately offended or upset about in this book. It's not gory. They don't have people leaping to their deaths, or being decapitated, or burned alive ("No, Johnny, the flame about his head should have more blue in it").

  52. Re:And Does The Book by Lunzo · · Score: 1

    Not only is torture useless for obtaining evidence, but its also illegal. I believe the Geneva Convention forbids it, and there are other UN anti-torture agreements. I think whoever authorized the use of waterboarding should be prosecuted for war crimes, and I think Obama is gutless for giving them a free pass. As the parent pointed out, war isn't a justification for illegal acts.

  53. Face in the flames! by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Look, just like the real thing there is a face in those flames. ( anyone else remember that picture right after the attack? )

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  54. Pretty Harmless Stuff, folks by cjstaples · · Score: 1

    Just leafed through a copy. Quite frankly, there doesn't seem to be much to complain about. It seems a worthwhile effort. Get a copy and judge for yourselves. FEMA: Put it back up. It's fine.

    --
    =cjs
  55. These are still available for order by Bodhammer · · Score: 1

    Thank God (Judea-Christian of course) the other following titles are still available:

    "I'm a Corrupt Politician - Color Me Green!" By Chris Dodd, Barney Frank (extra lollipop pages!), and Harry Reid, sing along pages by Hillary and Nancy!

    "I'm Black & Red at the Same Time - I'm Your President"

    and

    "We're America - We Were Brave and Free"

    are still available!

    --
    "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
  56. FTFA: by LandruBek · · Score: 1
    FTFA:

    But a blogger on the conservative Lew Rockwell website says [. . .] "After people complained, FEMA removed the coloring book from its site."

    So, apparently FEMA removed the coloring book due to complaints. But I suspect that you knew this already, and that I am just feeding a troll.

    --
    $META_SIG_JOKE
    1. Re:FTFA: by spun · · Score: 1

      Uh huh. Because some random blogger said so? Some random blogger said to send me $100 for everlasting happiness. Get to it.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  57. I can't wait to see... by XDirtypunkX · · Score: 1

    I can't wait to see the new CDC version of the book with man-bird-pig with a runny nose.

  58. Or maybe... by fataugie · · Score: 1

    The kids who would remember that are past coloring in a book these days?
    And the ones that are weren't born yet, so they have no context of what happened?

    In other words, it's served it's purpose for the time and is no longer needed.

    --

    WTF? Over?

  59. Re:The article does not say why the book was remov by spun · · Score: 1

    So the author of the coloring book says, "I stand firm that it was a very well thought-out and useful resource for kids," Olmsted told FOXNews.com. "But itâ(TM)s obviously being misinterpreted by a lot of people."

    Obviously, that could be the only reason the book was taken down. Well, the only newsworthy reason anyhow. And no author would make spurious claims in order to get more publicity.

    This is a non issue.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  60. Re:Who thinks of this stuff? by drakaan · · Score: 1

    TSG is "The Smoking Gun" (a website that routinely posts mugshots, pictures, and other stuff)

    I understand your point, but I'm saying that irrespective of what thousands of people do with them, that's not why they were created. Gun's weren't created for robbery, bone saws weren't created for disposal of murdered mafioso opponents, the identification cards weren't created to promote mindless hate.

    You're apparently not saying that you don't like the cards, but that you don't like some *people*, which is understandable. I hate racists and xenophobes, too (and anyone who hates or fears based on lack of knowledge or ignorance). It's not the cards' fault.

    --
    "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
  61. Nice out of context quote by spun · · Score: 1

    Allow me to present the whole quote, which you conveniently left unattributed:

    But a blogger on the conservative Lew Rockwell website says the government is too âoeobsessedâ with 9/11.

    âoeIs it that they want to keep the âoefearâ factor ever-present in the sheepleâ(TM)s minds? After people complained, FEMA removed the coloring book from its site. Too bad we canâ(TM)t remove FEMA from our sight.â

    Let me be more specific: please show me where the article makes credible claims from reliable sources who do more than speculate.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Nice out of context quote by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      ok that quote was from a blogger on the conservative Lew Rockwell website, I missed that to be honest, my mistake (was it intended that I make it?) but maybe this still stands.

      ""The coloring book, which was put online in 2003, was removed last week and FEMA is currently reviewing all Web content designed and posted by the previous administration," a FEMA spokesman said in a statement.

      Yet when I look at it again, it actually only states that the coloring book was taken down, and that further material by the previous administration is under review.
      It's not saying as much as it first appears.

      I guess really they are talking but saying nothing.

      Thanks for the lesson in political speaking - it's an interesting art form.

  62. Re:useful security measures by TheCarp · · Score: 1

    Yah, like fingers. Sure, it may not slit your throat, but they can still crush a windpipe or pop out an eyeball.... not to mentuion that the appendages they attach to are quite adequet for turning and breaking most any of the joints in other bodies.

    And of course... if you can get flour into the air, it can ignite as a fuel/air explosive and blow a plane out of the sky as effectively as semtex (though, gram for gram, the semtex probably wins)

    So a couple of people with little sacks of flour in the carry-on and one dude with a match.....

    Go ahead, outlaw flour on planes now. Will we start training dogs to sniff for it? buy some expensive new module for the puffer machine? Start swabbing people for flour? Think its hard to get a pack of matches on board?

    Seriously.... this security theater is ridiculous. The market for blowing planes out of the sky is severely limited. Its a real bombers market now. All these planes flying every day, and just, nobody out there even trying. Even less that prove to be the least bit competent at it.

    I would bet as many plans have failed of this type and just not "gone off" at all than actually worked. Furthermore, I think if every single one succeeded, we still wouldn't have enough incidents to warrent the first bit of the security measures that they have implimented.

    Have to be some sort of special brand of cowards to institute all this security over one or two crazies. It makes about as much sense as installing metal detectors and a full time gaurd at the door of an office building because in the 100 years since the building was erected, 1 guy went crazy and shot the place up.

    Or the Navy yard here, they have a contract security gaurd there who pulls out a mirror to look under every car that tries to enter.... determined to catch any bomber too lazy to rig a bomb up so it can't be seen with a cursory look from a rent-a-cop with a mirror. Apparently, bombers are too lazy to fill up trunks, or smear grease and dirt all over the outside of their bombs.

    Seriously.... how many people rig bombs under cars with flashing lights and big yellow hazard stripes with the word "BOMB" on them? Because, thats all I see these jokers catching. Oh.... but that contractor security gaurd, I am sure he would like to thank you all for your tax dollars, provided to him by the US Navy. (actually, he is a nice guy, but its still ridiculous that they even have him there)

    -Steve

    --
    "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  63. Yes, well, the article is a very clever troll by spun · · Score: 1

    It really is an art form. On a casual reading, the article really makes it sound like the book was taken down due to protests, but the only outrage actually mentioned came after the fact, as a reaction to the book's removal.

    In fact, the whole article seems like a cleverly crafted troll that implies different, offensive things to different people. It implies the book was removed due to protest. It implies the book was worthy of protest, It implies the book focuses on 9/11. Okay, the article actually calls it 'the 9/11 coloring book,' when it has all of two pages mentioning 9/11 in the context of hearing about any disaster over and over again in the news, which is a totally reasonable thing to prepare child survivors for.

    Trolls everywhere could learn a thing or two reading that article. I know I did. :) Man, I just reread it, and it is deliberately inflammatory, which is unlike the CS Monitor. I hadn't noticed quite how inflammatory the article is because it happens to match my personal biases.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  64. A colouring book to brainwash toddlers? by velen · · Score: 1

    The coloring book is the worst idea ever. What next? Coloring books of gas chambers / children dying of starvation / bloated corpses from Katrina / etc? Idiots who came up with this idea are no different from the fanatics they are fighting against.

    If my kids want to learn about the !@# that happens in the world, they will read up on history and current affairs when they are old enough to understand.

    Trying to brainwash toddlers is sick.