Italy May Hold Its Own Pirate Bay Trial

Jurisdiction? by rts008 · 2009-05-02 09:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

FTFA:

According to Sunde's lawyers, one of the issues still under discussion is whether the evidence collected by the Swedish authorities is legal or not. Thus far, the only binding jurisdiction with regard to The Pirate Bay is that the Italian blocking order was absolutely unlawful under criminal law.
Nevertheless, the entertainment industry is one step ahead and already thinking about how they will divide the booty. Simona Lavagnini, one of the lawyers representing the Italian music industry said that it is not very realistic to expect the defendants to be extradited to Italy, but she believes that fines and a seizure of assets belong to the possibilities.

Are the Italians going to invade other countries to seize these assets? Does TPB even have any assets in Italyto be seized?

This sounds like another 'me too' bullshit stunt to me.

--
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti

Re:Jurisdiction? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 11:05 · Score: 0

This sounds like another 'me too' bullshit stunt to me.

Exactly. You'd think that with the corruption going on in that government they'd have enough to do with in their own country first.
Re:Jurisdiction? by Cromac · 2009-05-02 11:17 · Score: 4, Insightful

If you were the Italian government wouldn't you rather go after 4 guys running a website than the mafia?
Re:Jurisdiction? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 11:22 · Score: 0

There are softer targets than the mafia that are still more justifiable targets than pirate bay.
C'mon, their head of state is in charge of public owned media companies and the top private ones. There's barely a news outlet in Italy that will say a sour word about the man.
Re:Jurisdiction? by nurb432 · 2009-05-02 11:28 · Score: 3, Informative

With the WTO they have some power to reach out of their countries borders.
Extradition has happened in other cases too.
its BS if you ask me, but im not running the show.

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---- Booth was a patriot ----
Re:Jurisdiction? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 11:35 · Score: 1, Interesting

If you'd listen to Italian TV for a few minutes you'll hear plenty bad about him. Weel of course not from rai 1, but there they always stay on the winning party side.
rai 3 will always talk bad about him, rete 4 will always be good with him, while canale 5 will avoid the subject if possible.
on newspapers(which are widely read here) there is a very wide panorama, with party backed newspapers from every party in existence(both the ones in the parliament and the ones which could not get seats there due to minimum votes needed.)
Re:Jurisdiction? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 11:40 · Score: 0

If you were the Italian government wouldn't you rather go after 4 guys running a website than the mafia?
Especially so since the Italian government now is the Mafia.
Re:Jurisdiction? by PieceofLavalamp · 2009-05-02 11:44 · Score: 1

I thought they already moved servers to the netherlands anyway. What would they be seizing?
Re:Jurisdiction? by samriel · 2009-05-02 12:36 · Score: 2, Interesting

The servers, AFAIK last, were spread around the world, with lots of them in Egypt and the Netherlands. There are surely more... I don't doubt that there is at least one server in every Eastern European country.

/serbian pirates ftw?
//citation needed
Re:Jurisdiction? by Shin-LaC · 2009-05-02 13:08 · Score: 4, Insightful

What the hell?

1) The government is constantly going after the mafia. There was a high-profile arrest just four days ago, the head of the Bidognetti clan of the camorra (the mafia of Naples).

2) In Italy, the government runs the police, but it has no control over the judiciary. Zero. Whether there is a Pirate Bay trial in Italy is completely outside the government's control.

3) The judiciary hasn't said that they want to do such a trial, either. All TFA (and its source) say is that the president of the Italian Music Industry Federation "expects" that the prosecution will seek a trial several months from now. There are no facts, just speculations from the Italian equivalent of the RIAA.

Are you enjoying being a prejudiced jerk?
Re:Jurisdiction? by Brian+Gordon · 2009-05-02 13:19 · Score: 1

Isn't it the prosecutor's office who decides if they're going to pursue the case? It doesn't matter if the judiciary doesn't particularly care to try this or that trial.
Re:Jurisdiction? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 13:22 · Score: 0

2) In Italy, the government runs the police, but it has no control over the judiciary. Zero. Whether there is a Pirate Bay trial in Italy is completely outside the government's control.
Yeah, right.
And the political history of Italy is an example of this "independence" (my ass).
Re:Jurisdiction? by Anachragnome · 2009-05-02 15:26 · Score: 1

"but she believes that fines and a seizure of assets belong to the possibilities"
I think by "assets" they mean they hope to find logs of up-loaders.
From what I hear, each threatened lawsuit against up-loaders is worth about $3500 in the US, the average dollar amount that people have been "settling" for when threatened with a lawsuit. If the record companies/RIAA don't WANT to settle, then a HELL of a lot more.
Once again folks, it is all about money. And your letting YOUR governments be USED to make it happen.
Re:Jurisdiction? by darkat · 2009-05-02 16:47 · Score: 1, Offtopic

What you said is true in theory, only. In practice this government is doing all it can to limit the judiciary power. This power is particularly hated by the premier which had (and still has) many legal problems. Some judges that were investingating about corruptions worth many millions of euros and involving many politicians and possibly the southern italy mafia, were recently removed under the government pressure. Thus, not all the judges are exactly ready to risk their career by running investigations undesired by the government.On the contrary many of them are ready to brown-nose the politicians. If one ADDS to this the fact that mr. Berlusconi is the owner of the bigger MEDIA concentration in Italy (his family owns newspapers and TVs and, being the premier, has a strong control on the state televisions) and has sent his legals against Youtube which is responsible to publish parts of Belusconi's TVs shows, s/he can understand the reasons of this action against Pirate Bay.
Re:Jurisdiction? by martin-boundary · 2009-05-02 17:12 · Score: 1

Extradition tends to happen in stupid countries like the UK, where the government doesn't properly protect its citizens. Countries which take their duties to their citizens seriously have blanket non-extradition policies for any reason.
Re:Jurisdiction? by rts008 · 2009-05-02 18:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

Okay, I am from the USA, so I know how the RIAA works here...but...
I understand the $3500/suit you mention, but I do not understand how Italy thinks it has a chance at getting any of this money.
This is what I was talking about when I said it was a 'me too' stunt.
All 'fluff, smoke, and mirrors' to further an agenda...I do not know enough about Italian politics to be sure...but I'm just suspicious....
I truly do not understand the connection of how 'each up-loader' is worth *3500 to the Italian Gov't.
Is Italy 'bowing down' that hard to the USA?(not meant as a flame-I am truly ignorant here)
Can 'up-loader' Ip's and logs make a difference if the server is not 'in country'?
What am I missing here?

--
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Re:Jurisdiction? by rts008 · 2009-05-02 18:17 · Score: 1

Like the ACTA deal?
You have a point...thanks for the reply.

--
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Re:Jurisdiction? by unauthorized · 2009-05-02 20:27 · Score: 2, Funny

If you were the Italian government wouldn't you rather go after 4 guys running a website than the mafia?
The Italian government is not the mafia? My view of the world has been shattered!
Re:Jurisdiction? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 20:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

This is plain false! ALL the TVs talks good of the premier, except Rai 3. Rete 4 is totally prone. Amongst the major newspapers there are one that is on the opposition side while the others, that need the support of the public money, hence of the government, to survive, are from neutral to completely ass-licking.
Re:Jurisdiction? by Arancaytar · 2009-05-02 23:37 · Score: 1

Of course they can, if the uploader IP is Italian. They simply look through the logs, find the IPs inside their jurisdiction, and crank out settlement offers by the dozen - profit!
Re:Jurisdiction? by mirkob · 2009-05-02 23:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

the newspapers aren't widely readed in italy.
and the majority are much aligned with a political party.
so even who read something read usually a journal already aligned with his ideas...
rarely berlusca fans read journals not preaching him, and the majority simply see his TV...
a sad situation of 30 milion+ gullible ignorants...
Re:Jurisdiction? by mirkob · 2009-05-03 00:01 · Score: 1, Offtopic

the government of italy rarely posed itself directly against the mafia in the last 15-20+ years expecially the various berlusconi's ones
a friend of mine told me on a completely unintended act against mafia that happened during the first Iraqi invasion, when a lot of italian military where on the road of a major Italian city of the south when it was used by the USA as a jump point for the invasion.
with so much military on the streets the lowly mafia agents that usually goes to ask pizzo from the various commercial activity never presented.
the population (or at least the owner of these small business) were so thankfull that he and his fellow soldier were unable to pay for any service in those bar and kiosk...
that's a kind of act that the government could do versus the mafia (or one of his aspects)
the berlusconi's government instead used the military as a show-piece that the government is taking some action during the last summer escalation of raping (at least escalation in the media, doesn't know if it were for real) distributing them in the various major city (of the nord where there are much less if any mafia) to make a work they were not prepared to (role of the various police forces).
Re:Jurisdiction? by Shin-LaC · 2009-05-03 05:04 · Score: 1

You have no idea what you're talking about. The army was in fact used against the mafia, in the operation "Vespri Siciliani" from 1992 to 1998. It was an exceptional measure, made necessary by the exceptionally violent strategy of direct opposition to the state adopted by Cosa nostra (the Sicilian mafia) in those years, which culminated in the murder of the magistrates Giovanni Falcone and Paolo Borsellino in 1992.

The army was tasked with strengthening control and surveillance of the Sicilian territory, cities and roads. This allowed the police to concentrate all its efforts on hunting down the mafia bosses. The strategy was very successful, leading to the capture of the head of Cosa nostra, Toto' Riina, in 1993, and of countless other mafiosi. The mafia was forced back underground, and it never again attempted to challenge the state directly. Cosa nostra was permanently crippled, and, though still powerful, to date it has not yet regained its former place as the strongest mafia in Italy (nowadays, the 'Ndrangheta in Calabria and the Camorra in Campania are considered more powerful).

Once the emergency was over, the army operation ended, and the fight against the mafia continued using the normal means of the police. High-profile arrests continue to be made to this day.
As for Berlusconi, he was the head of government in 1994-1995, while the operation Vespri Siciliani was in full force, and again in 2006, when Bernardo Provenzano, the new head of Cosa Nostra after Riina, was arrested.
Re:Jurisdiction? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-09 11:36 · Score: 0

Maybe the comment you are replying to was a joke? It kinda sounds like one to me, of course I could be wrong.

Stupidity by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 09:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

The problem with people is stupidity, isn't it?

Watch out Google, you're next!

Re:Stupidity by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 10:39 · Score: 0

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/02/2337207

How... by Darkness404 · 2009-05-02 09:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

How can they be tried in Italy? That doesn't make any sense unless the founders A) Lived in Italy B) Had Itallian bank accounts or other finances C) Did (physical) business in Italy with a physical presence.

Really, this doesn't make any sense.

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Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.

Re:How... by TheSpoom · 2009-05-02 10:03 · Score: 4, Interesting

Thank you, this is exactly what I was thinking.
My guess is that they believe that because it happens "over the internet" (duh-duh-DUH!) it's an international issue and that they may be able to get them extradited. Which, y'know, is stupid, but then, that's government for you.

--
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Re:How... by Swizec · 2009-05-02 10:09 · Score: 1

Both Italy and Sweden are part of the EU, so maybe there's a way because of that?
Re:How... by fastest+fascist · 2009-05-02 10:12 · Score: 1

Of course they can be tried in Italy, if there's a law in Italy saying they can be tried. Whether they'll be there for the trial is another matter, but if convicted while absent, I guess these people would do well to avoid traveling to Italy.
Re:How... by Darkness404 · 2009-05-02 10:16 · Score: 4, Interesting

But that doesn't make any sense either, because then you could get sued for a situation like this:

A) Create a website that violates some law in one country that is part of the EU, such as distributing Nazi texts which (as far as I know) is illegal in Germany, but legal in some EU nations such as the UK (where they actually have some shell of freedom of speech)

B) The website is hosted in a legal country such as the UK and all maintainers of it live, work, and have all financial ties in the UK

C) Germany brings charges against you

That just doesn't make any sense (not that most governments do), and seems contrary to having independent nation's laws rather then general EU laws.

--
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Re:How... by mrsteveman1 · 2009-05-02 10:18 · Score: 1

Really, this doesn't make any sense.
That's why they will be allowed to use the Chewbacca defense at trial.
Re:How... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 10:29 · Score: 0

A sniper bullet to the brain will stop him.
Re:How... by ElectricRook · 2009-05-02 10:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

I guess these people would do well to avoid traveling to Italy
and avoid traveling to anywhere with an extradition treaty with Italy.
So now do we have to stand trial in each of 190 countries for violating someone's sensibilities on the internet?

--
- High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
Re:How... by erroneus · 2009-05-02 10:58 · Score: 1, Informative

That logic only works for extraditing people to the U.S. When people are to be extradited to other countries, then it's a crime of all sorts that should never be allowed to happen. (I am referencing the British subject who was sent to the U.S. for hacking into NASA or whatever...)
Re:How... by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2009-05-02 10:59 · Score: 1

How can they be tried in Italy? .
Tried? Wrong verb. It's called a "shakedown."

--
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Re:How... by orzetto · 2009-05-02 11:49 · Score: 1

It does make a certain sense. Remember who is in charge in Italy. The guy owns a^Hthe media conglomerate in the country. His company (or was that the government?) has sued Youtube already, and his government becomes hyperactive every time his private interests are in question.
On the other hand, remember that trials in Italy last for insane amounts of time: it can take decades on average for some kind of trials to reach the end, and at the same time the statutory terms are relatively short and keep running during trial: it's a system engineered to keep MPs out of jail. Therefore, TPB runs quite a low risk.
I am not even surprised anymore by the priorities of our judiciary system. We have mafia, we have rampant corruption, and here is what we focus on. Ahi serva Italia...

--
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
Re:How... by TheVelvetFlamebait · 2009-05-02 12:21 · Score: 1

Wait. Why is that stupid? The internet is an international entity these days. It seems nuts to maintain individual sovereignty over "pieces" of the net, when everyone has access to almost everything.
Not that I'm picking on TPB specifically here (which is what I'd normally do), but in principle, it seems like a good idea to lay down (or update) some treaties here.

--
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Re:How... by Dan541 · 2009-05-02 12:25 · Score: 1

They can still hold a trial, just because they have no jurisdiction doesn't mean they can't waste money. This is just like the Spamhaus vs Spammer lawsuit.

--
An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
Re:How... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 12:49 · Score: 1, Insightful

I think that is a little different. Specifically targeting a U.S. group like nasa is a crime targeting that country. Its not the same as doing general business online. If you don't see the difference, you are either ignorant or dishonest.
Re:How... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 13:42 · Score: 0

There should be a world body governing this. My breaking point was when Kentucky figured they owned the internet.
http://www.thedomains.com/2008/09/22/kentucky-seizes-gambling-domains/
Re:How... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 13:53 · Score: 0

Just a note... the parent AC wasn't me. So, Feds/Johnny Law/etc, don't come after me plz.
Thanks!
-AC
Re:How... by Darkness404 · 2009-05-02 14:12 · Score: 1

But the net can and will exist in anarchy. You assume that if we take down all regulations regarding the internet, it would become a train wreck. It won't because people are naturally orderly.

--
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Re:How... by TheoMurpse · 2009-05-02 14:16 · Score: 1

Just out of curiosity, suppose I live in country X where murder is legal. If I stand on the border and shoot someone in neighboring country Y, what are the consequences for me?
Re:How... by ProfanityHead · 2009-05-02 14:51 · Score: 1

Next up: "Kentucky to Hold It's Own Pirate Bay Trial"
Re:How... by powerspike · 2009-05-02 15:55 · Score: 1

The way i have always seen it, is if there is a crime, there are two parties involved (in "copyright infringement" anyway).
TPB is in Sweden, so they done the offence there, the only thing Italy can do IMO is charge the people that copied the "artwork".
Anything else wouldn't be legal?
Re:How... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 16:18 · Score: 0

A mob from the other country would come over and kill you, with pitchforks and torches and everything.
Re:How... by TheVelvetFlamebait · 2009-05-02 16:42 · Score: 1

You assume that if we take down all regulations regarding the internet, it would become a train wreck.
I hate people telling me what I assume. You're assuming that I was worried about the health of the internet.
I know that the internet will survive without regulation (at least, with regards to content). I'm talking about impact of the internet on societies (not vice-versa). It makes sense to consider the internet as an international entity for the sake of individual countries trying to uphold their laws within their own countries. Otherwise, it's a simple matter for people to move off-shore and continue what they're doing in a country that allows it.

--
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Re:How... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 17:03 · Score: 0

Your government will refuse to extradite you. Which is really bad because if you don't get prosecuted, the victim's family and friends will feel justice hasn't been done and hire mercenaries in your murder-allowed country to do something that's perfectly legal there.
Re:How... by stephanruby · 2009-05-02 17:37 · Score: 1

Tell that to Ebay after France blocked it in its DNS for allowing Nazi objects to be sold.
Re:How... by stephanruby · 2009-05-02 17:47 · Score: 1

Therefore, TPB runs quite a low risk.
Assuming TPB even wants to bother. If a defendant is absent, the trial might actually be quite fast.
Re:How... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 20:51 · Score: 0

-1 internet tough guy.
Re:How... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 21:23 · Score: 0

Create a website that violates some law in one country that is part of the EU, such as distributing Nazi texts which (as far as I know) is illegal in Germany
and France, just ask Yahoo.
Re:How... by KDR_11k · 2009-05-02 22:44 · Score: 1

There are hundreds of different jurisdictions on Earth, many having laws that conflict with those of others. If you could be tried in all of those for anything you did on the internet you'd easily end up pronounced guilty (and if just by default) in several every time you do anything on the internet, no matter how legal it is in your country. It makes sense to restrict the ability to sue someone to at least the jurisdictions he acted in. Sony once filed tons of nonsensical lawsuits against an exporter in many different jurisdictions, relying on the inability of the defendant to bring that many lawyers to the battle and getting default judgements in most of the jurisdictions involved (the exporter then shut down completely). Situations like that should not be permitted.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Re:How... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 23:51 · Score: 0

Really, this doesn't make any sense.
welcome in Italy dude!
Re:How... by mirkob · 2009-05-03 00:17 · Score: 0, Troll

reading your post i immediately thought of many crimes done by stupid USA military against italians. in all those cases the culprit were never estradited to italy.
for reference to those cases, i doesn't remember details but maybe a bit of googling could help...
1) some 20+ year ago some brash stupid topgun flowed their fighter a bit too near some civilian zones, cutting the cable of a chairlift killing some tens of people... cernis case (if i remember correctly)
2) during the last iraqi invasion an italian secret service agent nogotiate to free an italian hostage, when they were on the car to the airport the solder at a roadblock fired a lot on the car killing the agent and another of the passengers. calipary case
Re:How... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-03 02:05 · Score: 0

As long as you stay in X you'd be safe, but if you go somewhere else you might be extradited to Y, or tried in the country where you go. In Sweden you can for example be tried for crimes commited abroad, even if what you did was legal at the place where the deed was commited, if the minimum penalty for the crime is four years in prison according to Swedish law (which includes murder).
Re:How... by quickbrownfox · 2009-05-03 03:06 · Score: 1

But that doesn't make any sense either, because then you could get sued for a situation like this: A) Create a website that violates some law in one country that is part of the EU, such as distributing Nazi texts which (as far as I know) is illegal in Germany, but legal in some EU nations such as the UK (where they actually have some shell of freedom of speech) B) The website is hosted in a legal country such as the UK and all maintainers of it live, work, and have all financial ties in the UK C) Germany brings charges against you That just doesn't make any sense (not that most governments do), and seems contrary to having independent nation's laws rather then general EU laws.
Umm, maybe you're joking, but that actually happened.

--
Repo man's always intense.
Re:How... by daybot · 2009-05-03 03:17 · Score: 1

such as the UK (where they actually have some shell of freedom of speech)
Clearly you haven't visited us recently :(
Re:How... by Mikkeles · 2009-05-03 04:39 · Score: 1

'Otherwise, it's a simple matter for people to move off-shore and continue what they're doing in a country that allows it.'
You say that like it's a bad thing.

--
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
Re:How... by ultranova · 2009-05-03 07:49 · Score: 1

It makes sense to consider the internet as an international entity for the sake of individual countries trying to uphold their laws within their own countries. Otherwise, it's a simple matter for people to move off-shore and continue what they're doing in a country that allows it.

So basically, in the current state of affairs I don't have to give a shit about what Chinese government thinks of what I post online. You wish to change this. Why?

--
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Re:How... by TheVelvetFlamebait · 2009-05-03 18:32 · Score: 1

Not that, specifically.
Say, for example, you have a child (say 13 or 14), and some peeping tom caught him or her experimenting sexually in bed. They then this guy decides to share this video with other like-minded creeps, which is sharing child pornography, and is, quite frankly, wrong (being a humiliating, drastic, and irreversible infringement on a child's right to privacy). Now, the paedophile has the option to move offshore, to a country with lower ages of consent, both for sex and participating in pornography (don't ask me to name a specific country though, let's just suppose one exists). They can continue to distribute the video, and it will be legal in the (possibly fictional) country, so no-one will be able to stop him depriving your son or daughter of their right to privacy, and he'll keep doing it. That's pretty fucking wrong, if you ask me.
Now that's an extreme example, but I'm sure we can come up with others, where the outlier laws in a single, or handful of countries scuttle the laws of everyone else. The internet is an international communication medium, and I think it would be a fine idea to start treating it as such.

--
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Re:How... by ultranova · 2009-05-04 03:41 · Score: 1

First of all, someone interested in 14-year old isn't a paedophile. A paedophile is someone who's interested in pre-pubescent children, not someone who's interested in teenagers.
That said, your entire argument basically boils down to "think of the children!" Now, I'm sick of thinking of children all the time, and having my rights trampled on just so some horrible paedophile has a little harder time viewing pictures or a video tape. So kindly take your International Internet Decency Board or whatever the Hell you had in mind, and stuff it where the Sun doesn't shine, then post the pictures online.
And while you're doing that, consider this: the Chinese outnumber every other country on Earth, so if you manage to get your international tribute or whatever, they will be able to outvote you. Given this, do you really think that someone seeing your precious little flower naked will cause more harm than having to live in a world where Chinese dictatorship can censor the whole Internet? Especially since she's never likely to even know that said video exists - it's not like it's the height of photographic skill, being shot in secret and all, and thus likely has the main actor unrecognisable.
Or did you simply mean that your country's laws should be enforced on the whole world? Probably; otherwise that other country could just as well demand that you lower your age of consent to match theirs, rather than they rising theirs to match yours. Let me guess: you're an American?
Either way, teach your kid to draw the curtains when she's having sex if she doesn't want to risk getting filmed, rather than try to force the rest of the world to engage in a witch hunt with you.
TL;DR: I'm a citizen of a free country and intend to keep it that way, so fuck you.

--
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Re:How... by TheVelvetFlamebait · 2009-05-05 00:43 · Score: 1

With the exception of the first and last paragraph, every single sentence you uttered was wrong. Every rhetorical question you asked was either moot, or inflected completely the wrong way. Every single one. You have completely misjudged, and I can only hope for the sake of the human race, misread my comment, and lit up a strawman in celebration of your display of massive, massive idiocy. Historical evidence and logic have long abandoned people who are as abrasively stupid as you, sir.
Enjoy alienating people from your cause. For that, at least, I can thank you.

--
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Re:How... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-05 02:08 · Score: 0

You assume that if we take down all regulations regarding the internet, it would become a train wreck.
I hate people telling me what I assume. You're assuming that I was worried about the health of the internet.
I know that the internet will survive without regulation (at least, with regards to content). I'm talking about impact of the internet on societies (not vice-versa). It makes sense to consider the internet as an international entity for the sake of individual countries trying to uphold their laws within their own countries. Otherwise, it's a simple matter for people to move off-shore and continue what they're doing in a country that allows it.
You assume that moving off-shore to another country to avoid law that seems unjust is a bad thing.
Re:How... by CarpetShark · 2009-05-05 07:51 · Score: 1

Ever heard of international copyright treaties?

Anyone else see a plot for a new action film.... by syousef · 2009-05-02 10:01 · Score: 5, Funny

He was a pirate...his father was a Swedish pirate, his mother an Italian beauty...now he faces his greatest challenge.

*queue music*

*fade in* RIAA *fade out*

*fade in* MPAA *fade out*

*queue fast drum music*

*flash quickly in time ot music to lots of scenes of kids downloading crap from their bedrooms and basements*

Okay maybe not an action film...

--
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer

jurisdiction by trancemission · 2009-05-02 10:02 · Score: 0

This trial got quite a bit of attention when the verdict was given here in the UK and I found myself wondering why so much attention for a verdict in another country. Even if it is in the EU

Obviously I didn't wonder for long.......

This world sucks.

Good news! by palindrome · 2009-05-02 10:08 · Score: 1

As it's Italy half way through the prosecution the government will change sides and support the defendants. This is good news for the PB folks.

Mafia vs Pirates by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 10:10 · Score: 0

Who'll win?

Re:Mafia vs Pirates by shentino · 2009-05-02 12:13 · Score: 1

Tyranny...from a government who will have the enviable position of being permitted to suspend civil rights to stop the first two groups from getting out of hand.

funny thing? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 10:12 · Score: 0

That funny thing you mentioned has absolutely no relevance to the story. Congrats.

Bad summary by yellowstone · 2009-05-02 10:12 · Score: 1

Pirate Bay is not the same as dimeadozen, zomb, traders den, etc.

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Those Bootlegs Were Legal by Telephone+Sanitizer · 2009-05-02 10:18 · Score: 5, Interesting

> Funny thing: almost 20 years ago, CD stores in Germany all
> seemed to be full of bootleg concert CDs pressed in Italy.

In fact, it was perfectly legal to record a live concert and sell the recording from Italy if the bootlegger opened a bank account and deposited a royalty for the artist.

There was even an official stamp issued to those bootleggers who registered with the Italian Authors Society.

Re:Those Bootlegs Were Legal by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 10:31 · Score: 0

Well the Italian bootlegs I bought here in the U.S. were not live recordings, but studio albums. As for their legality they were stamped, but were certainly cheap reproductions of the originals and could easily be confused with something manufactured in someones bedroom.
Re:Those Bootlegs Were Legal by FloydTheDroid · 2009-05-03 13:35 · Score: 1

Irregardless, what does someone in Italy selling bootleg CDs 20 years ago have to do with the Italy's legal branch considering a trial?

Re:Will it be held in Naples? by genner · 2009-05-02 10:22 · Score: 4, Funny

The Neapolitans have a bit of a reputation for taking things that aren't theirs

Is that how they got 3 diffrent flavours in their ice cream?

For when they enter Italy...? by Kidbro · 2009-05-02 10:23 · Score: 2, Informative

While it is wholly ridiculous to believe that this would have any real effect on the TBP people while they resided in Sweden, it may or may not give Italian authorities cause to intervene if any of them ever visited Italy.

If they did, they would not be the first country to do so.

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May we live long and die out

Re:For when they enter Italy...? by trancemission · 2009-05-02 10:30 · Score: 0

We are getting there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_government
Quote from American Library Association:
"The freedom to read is essential to our democracy. It is continuously under attack... These actions apparently arise from a view that our national tradition of free expression is no longer valid; that censorship and suppression are needed to avoid the subversion of politics and the corruption of morals."
Re:For when they enter Italy...? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 12:05 · Score: 0

Except that both Italy and Sweden are part of the European Union. Being part of the EU means you have to comply with the regulations of the EU. Which more or less implies that when you from country A are found guilty in country B you will have to serve the time/penalty. But, you could serve the time in your own country.
However, Italy is now allowed to try TPB for the same illegal facts are they were tried for in Sweden.

LOL @ .it domains by wulfmans · 2009-05-02 10:28 · Score: 4, Funny

I admin an IRC server and the country that is always using the !List command the most is Italy (95% of the time). I am sure you all know that !list is how you trigger a fserv on IRC. What are they looking for you ask? WAREZ !!! It's gotta be a joke they would consider having a trial.

In Italy... by JAlexoi · 2009-05-02 10:33 · Score: 1, Troll

In Italy pirated software and video CDs and DVDs are still common place. I mean, there are people that are charged with preventing IP piracy, who are actively involved with it. And there are people making money off infringing copyright - the actual pirates.
The last place you get your copyright infringing items is the pirate bay.

Re:In Italy... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-03 22:00 · Score: 0

Exactly. I could step downstairs and walk 30 seconds down the street where there are two pirate movie/music street vendors, who have been there 6 days a week for years.

Mod this. by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 10:50 · Score: 0

Fuck you try censor me now bitch.

Dear Italy by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 11:03 · Score: 1, Funny

Dear Italy,
Blow it out of your bum.

Sincerely,
The rest of the world.

Re:Dear Italy by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 11:57 · Score: 0

It's time to kick ass and chew gum, and I'm all out of gum.
- Italy
Re:Dear Italy by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 23:49 · Score: 0

...and all out of kick, for that matter.
Which is odd, for a country that shape.

Re:Anyone else see a plot for a new action film... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 11:13 · Score: 0

Dear Syousef,

Unfortunately this style of movie ad is under copyright of the MPAA, we will be sending lawyers shortly.

Signed,
MPAA

monkey-see, monkey-sue by DewDude · 2009-05-02 11:20 · Score: 0, Troll

This has GOT to be a case of Italy just doing something to make itself seem..ahem...more badass than they are. It makes no sense. Countless numbers of bootleg CD's come out in Italy. I happen to know of a studio album of a "classic" band that not only was the Italian imported CD a bootleg (despite saying it was used with permission), but was also sourced off vinyl and not "complete" What's next? The Chinese suing TPB for cutting in on thier piracy business?

Re:LOL @ .it domains by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 11:21 · Score: 0

Sorry but... they who?
Do you really think this trial is being started out of popular demand?

An Italian.

Lesson Learned by nurb432 · 2009-05-02 11:29 · Score: 2, Interesting

While you may be right, its time to take all this back underground.

What you cant see you cant sue/stop/fight.

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---- Booth was a patriot ----

Engineered Propaganda Play.. by plasmacutter · 2009-05-02 12:00 · Score: 1

The verdict is a scandal and destined to be overturned, in addition it's currently non-binding.

The judge has obvious and close-knit ties to the **AA through intimate lobby groups (composed of small numbers of powerful people), and has committed obvious breaches of swedish judicial procedure allowing "surprise witnesses" by the prosecution.

The verdict was "leaked" to the media before results were delivered to the defendants, and within minutes these **AA organizations were in the halls of legislation world-wide trying to leverage this preliminary, suspicious, and non-binding verdict as if it was a finalized, indelible damnation chiseled by god himself into stone tablets.

This entire affair is nothing more than a massive, corrupt propaganda play whose dirtiness approaches the underhanded tactics used to pass the DMCA and currently being used to circumvent the WTO and WIPO via the ACTA negotiations.

Satan is soliciting bids for the addition of a new, 10th level of hell specifically to house the disgusting individuals driving these endeavors.

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Double Jeopardy by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 12:11 · Score: 0

The EU's double jeopardy laws state "No one shall be liable to be tried or punished again in criminal proceedings under the jurisdiction of the same State for an offence for which he has already been finally acquitted or convicted in accordance with the law and penal procedure of that State."

Does the EU count as a state for this purpose? If so then wasn't being convicted in Sweden the end of the line? If not doesn't that mean that anyone convicted in the future could be hauled before the courts of any nation where the owner of the copyrighted work lives?

Imagine doing multiple consecutive 1 year sentences for hosting a variety of Europop mp3s?

Re:Double Jeopardy by mdmkolbe · 2009-05-02 16:51 · Score: 1

Well you see in Sweden they were only prosecuted for the copyright infringements in Sweden. There's still all that copyright infringement they committed in Italy to prosecute them for.
</sarcasm>

Re:Will it be held in Naples? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 12:29 · Score: 0

That was full of win.

Re:Will it be held in Naples? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 12:33 · Score: 0

+1 good sir and/or madame.

Re:Anyone else see a plot for a new action film... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 12:46 · Score: 0

*queue music*

I sure hope it's RIAA licensed music!

Re:Will it be held in Naples? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 13:16 · Score: 0

It's a thin line between idiot american and greatest troll ever.

Re:Anyone else see a plot for a new action film... by Meneth · 2009-05-02 13:27 · Score: 1

Quick, to the Bat-fax!

All is but in vain. by TrueRecord · 2009-05-02 15:13 · Score: 1

All is but in vain.
The trend is clear. More trials, more laws, more victims, more prisons, less privacy, hello, 1984.
What can you do against well-organized global copyright advocates?
All countries have fallen under their logic, those who are still free will obtain their "intellectual property" laws shortly.
You lose! I don't see how any one can beat advocates of copyright on their field.

Not so strange by darkat · 2009-05-02 16:56 · Score: 1

If one knows that the government in Italy is "owned" by the richest Italy man and owner of the biggest MEDIA concentration. He's only protecting his business (which is the very reason that led him into politics).

Re:Anyone else see a plot for a new action film... by martin-boundary · 2009-05-02 17:16 · Score: 1

Make sure the film has a dog in it. Every movie should have a dog in it for comic relief.

Say what you mean by Moryath · 2009-05-02 17:59 · Score: 1

The MafiAA is running around, jurisdiction-shopping wherever they think they can get a favorable verdict, after the fact that they bought off the judge in the Swedish trial was quickly discovered and there's a dead certainty that it'll get overturned on appeal.

something must be drying up by Dr.Ruud · 2009-05-02 19:18 · Score: 1

That is just to protect their source.

Dear Italians by badpazzword · 2009-05-02 19:57 · Score: 1

Next time you hear Berlusconi going about how he made Italy great in the world, just reread this discussion and see for yourself what the world really thinks of us.

In my hereabouts we'd say "'mbuccalasagne".

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When ideas fail, words become very handy.

Re:LOL @ .it domains by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 20:33 · Score: 0

Now now, we all know Italians are sensible netizens, especially on IRC.

Proof.

Newest fashion by Nephrite · 2009-05-02 20:43 · Score: 1

It's the newest fashion now to have the Pirate Bay trials. After half a year you (if you are a nation leader, that is) will not be able to look your peers in the eye if you haven't had a Pirate bay trial. "Bah, what country are you anyway? You even didn't have a Pirate Bay trial! Ridiculous!"

Media hype by Xarvh · 2009-05-02 21:29 · Score: 1

I'm Italian and I'm quite confident that the Government wants just a slice of the media hype.
When the whole thing will disappear into its own nothingness, it will have been already long forgotten and the media will not even cover it.
That's how it works.

Re:Media hype by Anonymous Coward · 2009-05-02 21:51 · Score: 0

Considering that the Italian government also controls the media, I don't think they really need another slice of the media hype. They usually create the hypes themselves.

Re:Anyone else see a plot for a new action film... by KDR_11k · 2009-05-02 22:49 · Score: 1

I've always thought that that would make for an interesting scenario in a tower defense game... "kill the lawyers before they can get to your door"

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Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

huh by GregNorc · 2009-05-02 23:07 · Score: 1

Doesn't the EU have the concept of double jeopardy?

Re:Will it be held in Naples? by quickOnTheUptake · 2009-05-03 05:50 · Score: 1

why 'and/or'? were you concerned the op may have had both sexes at once?
I swear the indiscriminate use of 'and/or' when 'and' or 'or' is meant is destroying english speakers' comprehension of logic.
now get the fuck off my lawn.

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Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation

Re:Will it be held in Naples? by McGuirk · 2009-05-03 08:35 · Score: 1

It is indeed possible, though unlikely, and would have otherwise been politically incorrect. *vomit*

Re:Will it be held in Naples? by Thinboy00 · 2009-05-03 10:23 · Score: 1

RTFS. This is a story about a legal matter, right? Well, lawyers have a love/hate relationship with and/or: they love it when it describes the actions their client can/may/must take, and hate it when it describes the actions the other guy can/may/must take. And that's just contract law!

IANAL.

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$ make available

Re:Anyone else see a plot for a new action film... by CarpetShark · 2009-05-05 07:53 · Score: 1

*flash quickly in time ot music to lots of scenes of kids downloading crap from their bedrooms and basements*

I thought you were referring the F.A.S.T. stuff (similar UK troll-equivalent of RIAA etc.) there.

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Italy May Hold Its Own Pirate Bay Trial

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