Slashdot Mirror


Microsoft Bans VoIP, Rival Stores At Mobile Market

narramissic writes "Microsoft has identified 12 application types that won't be accepted at the MarketPlace for Mobile store. Among them: VoIP apps, programs that are larger than 10MB, and programs that change the default browser on a device. Overly restrictive? Maybe. But perhaps the clear set of rules (PDF) will prevent confusion similar to what's been encountered over Apple's policy for approving or rejecting applications from the App Store."

44 of 151 comments (clear)

  1. Excuse me by sam0vi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Excuse me for saying this, but does anybody else think this is MADNESS!!?? They are not going very far with those restricitions. Follow the way of the Zune.

    --
    When my Karma level reaches 0 I feel in piece with the Universe
    1. Re:Excuse me by dunkelfalke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I personally don't care, since you are not tied to this store to get applications for Windows Mobile. This is not Apple where you have to jailbreak the device to install software from anywhere.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    2. Re:Excuse me by Andy_R · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The top 2 things in the prohibited list are "Applications that link to, incent users to download, or otherwise promote alternate
      marketplaces" and "Applications that are or distribute alternate marketplaces".

      This doesn't fill me with confidence about the future of alternatives to Microsoft's store, surely they must be envious of Apple's 30% cut of 1 billion app sales.

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    3. Re:Excuse me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Madness???!?!?!

      THIS

      IS

      REDMOND!

    4. Re:Excuse me by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Only the restriction on replacing the SMS/MMS interface seems braindamaged to me. You can likely already configure a winmo phone to send those messages via TCP. If I had unlimited internet on my cellphone (RAZR V3i) I could do this, and send SMS and MMS for free. (I don't...)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Excuse me by tb3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly. I can't see anything in there that would stop porn, or the baby-shaking app, or anything else that could be controversial or offensive. The first time someone tries to submit an app like that, Microsoft is going to have to accept it, and deal with the PR firestorm, or reject it, and deal with the PR firestorm. :-P

      --

      www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance

    6. Re:Excuse me by m50d · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Who's to say the next IPhone won't stab users in the face with a fork?

      Could we maybe wait until such restrictions are actually, you know, announced, before bashing MS for them?

      --
      I am trolling
    7. Re:Excuse me by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why should the supplied market place advertise and enable rival services?

    8. Re:Excuse me by Andy_R · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is a list of application types that will be rejected. I think it's safe to assume there will also be a list of application content that will be rejected, which will cover the sort of things you mention.

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    9. Re:Excuse me by MikeBabcock · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anyone familiar with the PlaysForSure initiative should be extremely wary of purchasing anything for these devices without a way to guarantee that they'll work after Microsoft moves on to greener pastures.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    10. Re:Excuse me by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Reading this I am starting to wonder how I managed to get software for my windows mobile devices all these years since I got an XDA in 2004.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    11. Re:Excuse me by noundi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In their defense, this rule makes sense. In no company should one promote the activities of another rival company, this is natural. However it's another thing to Hitler things around, such as prohibiting VoIP. This is such a natural step in communication that it hurts to see that Microsoft kills innovation like this. I really admire the ignorance of those that support this store. This is no longer even about opinions, this is a plain fucking fact, do you want to pay your carrier for a service that you can get for free with another service you're already paying for? To me it's simple, get as far away from such a company as possible. They clearly have no interest in pleasing you, their interest lies in pleasing AT&T and Vodafone etc. That's where they get their income, by allowing other companies to fuck you over and then charge them for the service.

      --
      I am the lawn!
    12. Re:Excuse me by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not real sure that a policy of not promoting other appstores puts them at a competitive disadvantage versus Apple, which simply refuses to support any other appstores.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    13. Re:Excuse me by postbigbang · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In their offense, this ruling doesn't make sense.

      Apple apps don't run on Windows phones; hell, most of their own apps barely run on their phones. My Windows 5 Treo 700w is miserable.

      It's true that banning VoIP makes friends with the carriers. A good alt.store some place will deliver those apps soon. Then things are out of the carrier's gouging control again, and so much the better.

      Competition is cool. The Amazons of the world can actually make money from rivals, easily and handily.

      Open a store, make it a cool and safe place to go, and clean up. Microsoft keeps hardware vendors in business by getting their OS and apps to run in lots of places on lots of hardware. Their UI, good or bad as it might be, is at least understood. They have a chance to be egalitarian, but instead, copy the mistakes of their rivals, instead of breaking new ground. Oh, wait.... that's what they always do-- or at least that's the perception.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    14. Re:Excuse me by maxume · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anyone with any understanding of DRM at all should be wary of any service that employs DRM that depends on a server (there is some distinction between server based schemes and something like DVD style protection, the latter being someone less likely to explode).

      Of course, whether than means not using it at all or simply factoring it into the purchasing decision is going to be up to the individual. The short term payoff could well be significant enough that the DRM simply isn't relevant.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    15. Re:Excuse me by tgd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That 1 billion is a misnomer.

      Every time you download an update to an app, its considered a sale (and you get a $0 receipt for it).

      I'm sure I've racked up hundreds of sales, but I've only bought maybe four programs.

    16. Re:Excuse me by hoooocheymomma · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm already on the iFork mailing list for pre-order updates!

    17. Re:Excuse me by funkatron · · Score: 3, Funny

      If it did I'd be impressed. Facial recognition, depth perception and accurate robot arm control on a handheld device would be a major technical achievement.

      --
      "Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
    18. Re:Excuse me by Tanktalus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It really depends on what they see as their revenue stream.

      One option is to try to lock all your customers in to your vertical stack, such that you spend all your money with them. This is known as the "bundle everything with your OS" tactic. Microsoft has had some success with this.

      Another option is to enable partners to drive sales of your base product. That is, you provide the base product (say OS) and encourage others to provide value to your product by producing add-ons. This could be known as the "contract out your OS to some weenie startup who stole the code they're trying to sell you" model. Didn't work so well for IBM. Although IBM is doing better with it now - perhaps they vet their partners better.

      I'm not really sure why MS would go the other road, especially since the first one works so well for them in the Windows space, and seems to be the way Apple is going... though the second way seems to be the way that Sony does their PlayStation which has traditionally worked well for them (until the Xbox came in and further divvied up the console market). What the second method really does is encourage others to sell your product. Maybe I'm naive in business (I'm just a drone at a big company, not an entrepreneur), but I'd probably want to go with the second method, if only to get people selling my stuff without having to pay them ;-)

    19. Re:Excuse me by mdwh2 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Who's to say the next IPhone won't stab users in the face with a fork?

      And when it does, you can bet that it will be touted as an advantage :)

      "It doesn't matter that other phones stabbed users in the face with a fork, Apple were the first ones to integrate the fork properly with your face".

      And when the next version after that removes the fork-stabbing, there'll be media hype and praise about that too.

    20. Re:Excuse me by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wait a minute. What's a "supplied market place?" Before these goofy phones came along, I never heard of such a thing.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    21. Re:Excuse me by postbigbang · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Uh, no.

      Your analogies don't hold water at all. I think skype on a mobile phone is great. I want dialtone, not monopoly in the same way that I want a carrier/Internet connection of some kind. I'll buy the products and services from whom I wish, and not be captive to some joker MBA's idea of a monopoly. Choice counts.

      Enslaving developers to draconian rules is not only boorish, but it's ultimately harmful to the business doing it-- and consumers get wise to the BS quickly, and go elsewhere.

      Say you were the #4 mobile OS maker, and you wanted to get market opportunities. Would you enslave your developer community in this way? Or would you try and eat your competitor's lunch by outdoing them in quality, selection, variety, and freedom?

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    22. Re:Excuse me by chaim79 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Where are you getting this information? I've never seen a bill for an app update (even a $0 bill) and I've not seen any mention of this anywhere else.

      The only thing I've seen that's remotely close is comparisons of the various developer programs, for a developer on Symbian a new app and an update to an existing app are priced/processed the same. However, that has nothing to do with apps sold.

      --
      DEMETRIUS: Villain, what hast thou done?
      AARON: Villain, I have done thy mother.
      Shakespeare invents 'your mom'
    23. Re:Excuse me by plague3106 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      By that logic you can even justify murder. Don't glorify it, this is horrible. This is just as bad as McDonalds employees spitting in your food. I don't understand how people can be so easilly manipulated to accept these things

      I dunno, maybe because this ISN'T equivolent to murder or people spitting in your food? Really, if this is your biggest concern, get a life.

    24. Re:Excuse me by WNight · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wrong question?

      Why would the marketplace accept a crippled device from company A when company B doesn't restrict their app store?

      I mean, who does MS think they are? Apple? Do they think they have any star power?

      Business types, MS's traditional cash cow, switched to Blackberries, and since Vista, people *have* gotten fired for buying Microsoft. They aren't really hip and cool. They don't appeal to kids...

      Don't they realize they're the LG of the market now? They're now the crap you whine about getting at work because the macbooks are gone and decent smartphones were already taken.

      So, um, no. They don't have to "enable rival services" - their rivals are doing fine without them (see iPhone and Crackberry). But if they didn't try to trap us in their walled garden, the crappiest of all, they might manage to hang onto some of their remaining customers.

  2. So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We're up in arms because they don't want you using other companies products on their stuff?

    This seems like a fairly normal corporate model: why give other companies a chance to wow your consumer base?

    Meanwhile, Apple's latest evil is barring Trent Reznor from using his music in an app when they sell the uncensored version of his music on itunes. I think Apple is winning the 'my store is more evil' award for now.

    1. Re:So? by kingturkey · · Score: 4, Informative

      No - a more accurate analogy would be Microsoft not allowing Firefox links on microsoft.com.

    2. Re:So? by Animaether · · Score: 5, Insightful

      no?

      You already purchased Windows, one way or another (unless you're a pirate - ARRR!!!!!), so you can put whatever the heck you want on there.

      The Windows Marketplace is a -store-. You don't own it. Why exactly should they have to -sell- (or offer) another company's software - especially if it's competing software?

      Don't like it? Go to Handango.com or pocketgear.com or any of dozens of other stores.

      Microsoft isn't stopping anybody from installing competing 'market place'-type software; they just don't want to offer/sell it through their own market place. Sounds normal to me.

  3. !Overly restrictive by Shrike82 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The no VoIP will have been imposed by phone companies who don't want their customers making cheap calls. These restrictions don't seem excessive to me, merely the result of enforcing software standards (from TFA) and the usual price fixing from mobile phone companies.

    Anyway, can't you just install unofficial apps (not from the store) if you want to bypass these restrictions? Any sort of software protection preventing this will likely be broken in short order...

    --
    You can advertise in this sig from as little as £99.99 a month!
    1. Re:!Overly restrictive by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What do you mean unofficial.. there is no such thing in the WinMo world. Anyone can create and distribute apps for WinMo devices, in any way they please.

      The only thing that the Windows Market place is allowing for is the ability for developers to create applications that can be sold through a 1 stop shopping space directly on the phone.

      there is nothing stopping users from buying apps from developer websites, handango, or whatever other distribution method is out there, and installing via activesync. These are still official applications.

      As for the VOIP thing, well thats to appease the carriers. And no, MS does not have to allow applications that will point to competing market place applications. Thats like Walmart selling you a coupon that points to best buy to buy a piece of software...

      I read the rules a few days ago, I do not see anything wrong with them. As someone else pointed out, if you don't like those rules, go elsewhere, thats the advantage of WinMo, unlike Apple where you have to jailbreak if you want to do anything fun

      disclaimer, I have an iphone.. but I also have half a dozen winmo phones too.

      --
      I came, I conquered, I coredumped
  4. Google to the rescue! by __aanmys7397 · · Score: 2, Funny

    *chants* Android! Android! Android! Their motto is "Do No Evil", and I'm very gullible!

  5. Re:Funny by oodaloop · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And RIM is ahead of them. I read just yesterday that RIM overtook Apple in marketshare of mobile devices. Not that any of us ever doubted Linux would one day surpass MS and Apple.

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
  6. dialers by iocat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sadly one of the banned apps is the only thing that would make me return to WM -- an alternate dialer. The default dialer app uses about 50% of the screen real-estate for the virtual buttons, pretty much necessitating the use of a stylus to dial. Apple uses almost 100% of the screen, making dialing with your finger on glass much more reliable. Of course, the BlackBerry uses actual buttons, so that's what I have.

    --

    Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    1. Re:dialers by kyuubi42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But the beauty of windows mobile is that you do not have to go through an app store, installing apps on your own does not void the warrenty.

      This is just guidelines for what MS will allow in the store, and it makes sense that they would not like to advertise competing products.

  7. VOIP is NOT banned by Andy_R · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ignore the sensationalist headline, Microsoft's VOIP policy is actually the same as Apple's. VOIP is prohibited when it's over the mobile carrier's network, but it's allowed if it's not going over the mobile network.

    This means the an app that only connects over wifi, like Skype for the iPhone, would be fine.

    --
    A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
  8. Resistance is Futile... by BroadbandBradley · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Windows® Marketplace for Mobile
    Prohibited Application Types:
            1. Applications that are or distribute alternate marketplaces for content types (applications,
                    games, themes etc.) that are sold or otherwise distributed through Windows® Marketplace for
                    Mobile.
            2. Applications that link to, incent users to download, or otherwise promote alternate
                    marketplaces for content types that are sold or otherwise distributed through Windows
                    Marketplace for Mobile.
            3. Applications that promote or link users to a website, or contain functionality within the
                    application itself, which encourages or requires the user to purchase or pay to upgrade the
                    application outside of Windows® Marketplace for Mobile.
            4. Applications that enable VoIP (Voice over IP) services over a mobile operator network.
            5. Applications that sell, link to, or otherwise promote mobile voice plans.
            6. Applications that display advertising that does not meet the Microsoft Advertising Creative
                    Acceptance Policy Guide http://advertising.microsoft.com/creative-specs.
            7. Applications that replace, remove or modify the default dialer, SMS, or MMS interface.
            8. Applications that change the default browser, search client, or media player on the device.
            9. Applications with an OTA (over the air) download >10 MB.
            10. Applications that run code outside Microsoft runtimes (native, managed, and widgets)
            11. Applications that publish a userâ(TM)s location information to any other person without first having
                    received the userâ(TM)s express permission (opt-in) to do so, and that do not provide the user a
                    means of opting out of having their location information published.
            12. Applications that publish a userâ(TM)s data from their mobile device to any other person without first
                    having received the userâ(TM)s express permission (opt-in) to do so, and that do not provide the user
                    a means of opting out of having their data published. A âoeuserâ(TM)s dataâ includes, without limit,
                    contacts, photos, SMS or other text communication, browsing history, location information, and
                    other data either stored on the mobile device or stored in the âoecloudâ but accessible from the
                    mobile device
    Microsoft reserves the right to update these policies as needed to protect the Windows® Marketplace
    for Mobile service or the users of the service

    1. Re:Resistance is Futile... by wild_quinine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Windows® Marketplace for Mobile
      Prohibited Application Types:
      1. Applications that... etc

      Basically 'You can't sell stuff in our store which directly competes with the stuff we sell in our store?'

      That sounds like a perfectly reasonable policy for a store owner to have.

      That only becomes a problem when you have a monopoly. In this case, Microsoft don't. They don't across Platforms because of Apple, Palm, Android, and they don't within their own platform, because you can go elsewhere for apps (unlike with Apple!)

  9. MS sells out by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Man, who would have thought the once-cool MS would one day become as heavy-handed as Apple!

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  10. Resistance is Futile? by internerdj · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Really?
    1-3 make good business sense
    4,5,7,9 are probably rules pushed by the provider
    7,8,10 protect tech support
    11,12 are to protect the consumer
    6 is probably just a loophole to make sure they can get around any creative ideas that would have been intended to fall under 1-3 but might not be covered.

    Of course if you are unhappy with these rules maybe you could return to the open and free policies of buying apps for your iPhone...

  11. 12 more reasons by Tragedy4u · · Score: 2, Interesting

    To not get a Windows Mobile device

  12. Re:Windows Mobile? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yes, the fact that you spent the time to figure out how to do custom ROMs for phones clearly indicates that you are more intelligent than the other 99.999% of the human population. We are all very impressed.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  13. Actually... by Shadow7789 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, I think the restrictions are reasonable. One thing to note is that it doesn't say the apps must change your default browser or dialer back to Microsoft's, it says you can't change them at all. In a way, this could be viewed as a good thing. Do I really want my copy of "Epic Game" changing my default browser from Opera for example? Or changing my dialer to something they made to promote their game? I think what MS is doing is fine, sure there is the problem that you can't get alternate browsers from the Market, but this isn't the iPhone. We can get are apps elsewhere.

  14. Apple List Shorter by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Funny

    Where as Microsoft has to list 12 different type of applications they won't allow in their store, as usual the Apple list is both shorter and simpler. It consists of: Apps we or AT&T simply don't like.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  15. Re:No Apps above 10MB means no dictionaries by AmaranthineNight · · Score: 2, Informative

    That only applies to downloads on a cell network (and the same limitation exists in Apple's App Store). Just download the dictionary over wifi.