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Storytelling In Games and the Use of Narration

MarkN writes "The use of story in video games has come a long way, from being shoehorned into a manual written for a completed game to being told through expensive half-hour cut scenes that put gameplay on hold. To me, the interesting thing about story in games is how it relates the player to the game; in communicating their goals, motivating them to continue, and representing their role as a character in the world. This article talks about some of the storytelling techniques games have employed, and in particular the different styles of narration that have been used to directly communicate information about a story, and how that affects the player's relation to their character and the degree of freedom they're given to shape the story themselves."

131 comments

  1. Welcome back. by Kagura · · Score: 1, Informative

    Welcome back to Slashdot. ;)

    1. Re:Welcome back. by Lunoria · · Score: 1

      It's good to be back. Maybe we should read the articles so slashdot doesn't die again.

    2. Re:Welcome back. by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Welcome back to Slashdot. ;)

      Glad to see somebody was quick on the "universal fixit button".

    3. Re:Welcome back. by Anenome · · Score: 1

      Wait, did we just 'slashdot' Slashdot?

      --
      "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist"
    4. Re:Welcome back. by N3Roaster · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well what did they expect, trying to host it on an Amiga?

      --
      Remember RFC 873!
    5. Re:Welcome back. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Could be worse. They could have hosted in on a Vista machine. An Amiga 4000 with 800 megahertz PowerPC is still faster than that. (ducking and running)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  2. Ultima II, Karateka and Questron! by Phizzle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I still remember the first games with "cut scenes" - Ultima II the grand finale, Karateka and Questron on Commodore 64. Questron was the most elaborate one - the celebration parade at the end of the game was epic, almost StarWars like. I remember to this day how it blew my mind.

    P.S. Welcome back Slashdot
    Not sure what this was about but it didnt sound healthy:
    Error 503 Service Unavailable

    Service Unavailable
    Guru Meditation:

    XID: 275099066
    Varnish

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    1. Re:Ultima II, Karateka and Questron! by Hecatonchires · · Score: 1

      I miss my Amiga ;_;

      --

      Yay me!

    2. Re:Ultima II, Karateka and Questron! by Flentil · · Score: 1

      I agree about Questron. At the time it was the most satisfying game ending I'd ever seen, and still ranks up there with some of the best. But as a general rule I don't like cutscenes mixed into my games, and the latest fad of gamestopping quicktime events is truly obnoxious.

  3. Freemanic Paracusia by psicop · · Score: 3, Funny
    1. Re:Freemanic Paracusia by Sensible+Clod · · Score: 4, Funny

      My favorite style of narration involves phrases like "What you say!!" and "You have no chance to survive make your time".

      For great justice.

      --

      The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
    2. Re:Freemanic Paracusia by JohnnyBGod · · Score: 1

      How does Gordon Freeman have a comforting voice if he never talks?

    3. Re:Freemanic Paracusia by Julien+Brub · · Score: 1

      It's Gordon Freeman, and we never actually hear it's voice... but anything that can help discover xkcd is good!

      --
      "I can not bring myself to believe that if knowledge presents danger, the solution is ignorance." Isaac Asimov
    4. Re:Freemanic Paracusia by nitroscen · · Score: 1

      Two words: Roger Wilco

    5. Re:Freemanic Paracusia by Theoboley · · Score: 1

      lol i read that as Morgan Freeman...

      --
      Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
    6. Re:Freemanic Paracusia by Deagol · · Score: 1

      What you say?

      So... you hear stuff as sung by Buster Poindexter?

  4. Yes, I RTFA by hezekiah957 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Many games spread out their chunks of story like breadcrumbs for the player to follow, in between somewhat repetitive sessions of gameplay; the continuation of the story serves almost as a reward for getting through more of the game.

    When I read this, all I could think was "Assassin's Creed". Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed the game and are eagerly the release of its sequel, but it was ridiculously repetitive.

    1. Re:Yes, I RTFA by Bangmaker · · Score: 1

      I had a nearly opposite reaction to Star Wars: The Force Unleashed. Why would I want to watch a two minute cutscene when I could be riping apart more stormtroopers? Althought by the end the game was pretty old, even the worst gameplay was by far better than the cutscenes.

    2. Re:Yes, I RTFA by montyzooooma · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some games require story, RPGs in particular. Most other games I just want to PLAY THE GAME. If I want a story I'll read a book or watch a movie. 99% of in game story-telling is a waste of my time, and so uninspired it's an insult not a reward. Unskippable cut-scenes are a crime which should have been outlawed by the Geneva Convention.

    3. Re:Yes, I RTFA by mcvos · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Cut scenes don't belong in RPGs either. They should tell the story through the game rather than tacking it on for passive consumption.

      Games are not a passive medium. You need to get players involved in the story, rather than making them a passive audience to a crappy movie.

      Cut scenes need to die.

    4. Re:Yes, I RTFA by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You hit the nail on the head. For games like Final Fantasy, Parasite Eve, or Eternal Darkness (gamecube), the story is the reason you play. It's like an interactive movie. But for games like shooters, the story is often so lame and pathetic you just want to get back to the game.

      And oftentimes the game itself is lame too. I miss the 80s and early 90s when games had to be good to hold your attention - graphics were too poor to serve as a substitute, so the play was the thing that mattered the most.

      Basically I'm looking for personality in my games, not shallow T&A.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:Yes, I RTFA by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      You mean like the classic Pirates game? There's not much story there, but the outcomes such as whether you court a beautiful daughter and retire as a governor, or end-up single and penniless, are determined by how much success you see in your treasure-hunting and ship-to-ship battles.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:Yes, I RTFA by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I totally disagree. Warcraft II had great cut scenes (that you could skip), that lead to total immersion in the Warcraft world. Without those, there would have never been a World of Warcraft. I wish WoW would have cut scenes interspersed through the game, if not just for nostalgia. I feel much more disconnected from the WoW environment than I ever did in Blizzards other games, because you only learn about the world what you discover on quests. Given most buildings and quests are kind of repetitive in WoW, there's no back story to make them more interesting. Instead, you get a million little mini-story lines on some of the quest chains, that are easily forgotten shortly after you complete the chain.

    7. Re:Yes, I RTFA by Perky_Goth · · Score: 1

      Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean a lot of us also don't like it. In fact, I really like it at times.

    8. Re:Yes, I RTFA by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Warcraft II is not an RPG. And WoW is arguably not much of an RPG either. Certainly not one that's about story. I guess Warcraft II doesn't really offer any way to deliver story other than through cutscenes (and in most strategy games you're not supposed to get too involved in the story anyway), but for any game calling itself an RPG, resorting to cutscenes is a cheap cop out.

    9. Re:Yes, I RTFA by Keill · · Score: 2, Interesting

      RPG's require story?

      Yes and no. What they REALLY require, like many other games, are setting and background. Anything beyond that is simply an opinion, depending on the individual game.

      The problem I have with a lot of games these days, is that some developers seem to forget that the story the player WRITES, is actually more important than the story the game has to TELL.

      Just because a lot of RPG's focus on telling a story, does NOT mean that they have to do so.

      What makes an RPG what it is, is NOT the story being told, but the options and power it gives the player in writing their OWN story. Whether it has a straight-jacket of a story to follow or is completely open for the player makes NO difference to it's genre.

      Games, are about story WRITING, not story TELLING - even RPG's. Just because you can interleave a story being told with one being written doesn't mean it HAS to be that way. Most games, in fact, don't involve a story being told at all - (chess/draughts/tag/hopscotch etc.) - ALL they are concerned about is the player(s) creating his/her/their OWN.

      The problem some people have in the computer games industry atm, is that, coming from the other media companies and industry, (film/tv etc.), which is BUILT around story TELLING, they want to do the same thing in computer games.

      I am NOT saying that using a computer game to tell a story is BAD, though, since, in itself, it's not - it's just different. What DOES make it bad, though, is when the story the players can write gets overshadowed by the story being told. At that moment, it ceases to become a GAME, and moves towards becoming inter-active fiction...

      What I want is the opposite - I want MORE power over the stories I can write, but the industry seems to be moving in the opposite direction atm :(

      --
      'Stupidity is an often fatal disease' - R. A. Heinlein
    10. Re:Yes, I RTFA by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Not an RPG? You're nuts. It's based upon statistics with the outcome of battles determined by those stats (virtual die-rolling). Sounds like the classic RPG to me.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    11. Re:Yes, I RTFA by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Not an RPG? You're nuts. It's based upon statistics with the outcome of battles determined by those stats (virtual die-rolling). Sounds like the classic RPG to me.

      You need to look up what the letters "RPG" actually stand for. Hint: the 'R' is not "roll".

  5. Narrative rules in games by Anenome · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Games need to be 'told' like a story, and follow similar rules of development, plot structure, and the like. One problem developers face is that while changing a few lines in a written story are easy, changing a scene in a game can be quite an undertaking. So, the narrative of a game needs to be fairly mature before you start building scenes from it.

    Game can 'jump the shark'.

    Probably the most famous jump-the-shark moment in gaming (for me at least) was when we rented a copy of Daikatana to laugh at ._. for the N64. The opening has the main character jumping up and balancing on an out held sword. *shakes head* Romero, wtf were you thinking? It's cheesy every time they do it in anime too.

    One of the biggest strengths of games is the ability for choices to mean something, and for alternate endings to bloom. Chrono Trigger is a big one for me, to go back and play it through all over again, the story is rich and wonderful, and experience a few different endings here and there.

    --
    "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist"
    1. Re:Narrative rules in games by chaoticgeek · · Score: 1

      When ever I think of alternate endings I always remember playing Star Ocean 2: Till The End Of Time for the PSX... I'm not sure how many times I played that just to find different endings or new little quirks about the game. I was told that there were something like 80 different endings for the game.

      --
      hello
    2. Re:Narrative rules in games by BenoitRen · · Score: 1

      Star Ocean: Till The End of Time is actually the third Star Ocean game.

    3. Re:Narrative rules in games by BenoitRen · · Score: 1

      Chrono Trigger doesn't have meaningful choices, though. Its alternate endings are gotten by beating the final boss earlier than you should. Most endings don't make sense.

      Despite that, still a great game.

    4. Re:Narrative rules in games by papabob · · Score: 1

      Games need to be 'told' like a story

      Like, lets say, Left 4 Dead? Yeah, great story: "Here is your gun, there are zombies, guess what". And it is one of funnier games I've played recently. We should abandon the idea of games being a form of art, and retake them as a funny way to spend time.

    5. Re:Narrative rules in games by chaoticgeek · · Score: 1

      Ooops I meant Star Ocean 2: The Second Story. Thanks for the catch.

      --
      hello
    6. Re:Narrative rules in games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, how about this: let some games be a form of art, and others be just fun to play. Some can even achieve both (Shadow of the Colossus comes to mind).

    7. Re:Narrative rules in games by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Zoey: "Hey, I wonder what's over here."
      Francis: "Damnit, I was beginning to like Louis."
      Bill: "Dammit Zoey, get out of my way!"
      Francis: "What's this then?"
      Zoey: "Oh god, Francis!"
      Bill: "Quiet, witch!"
      Louis: "Stay with me you guys!"
      Louis: "What's that?"

      *gurgling noises as Louis is killed by the Witch*

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    8. Re:Narrative rules in games by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      One of the biggest strengths of games is the ability for choices to mean something, and for alternate endings to bloom. Chrono Trigger is a big one for me, to go back and play it through all over again, the story is rich and wonderful, and experience a few different endings here and there.

      And that is why making good stories with games is rather difficult.
      We either find a few scenarios for completing the story, however even with a few scenarios it falls down to the following issues.

      The Old Sierra Game/Infocom Text Adventure Style: Your goal is to complete the story the way the author wants you do do so. You may have multiple ending However and multiple solutions to get to such endings, however they normally resolve similar plots.

      Not being the main character for the plot: The plot is going on around you and you just one of those extras who goes around having to do something to achieve your goals. Much like in Quake II, you may have single handedly killed killed a whole army of evil doers, however once you get to your end of the level you will now need to go to the next level were there is a slightly bigger/smarter army ready for you.

      Your objective is not to mess up the plot: Blizzard games do that. In essence by loosing some of the early games you actually save humanity. Object: Prince Arthas must survive. Yea right just as he started turning evil we should just send all the nights after him and shred him to pieces.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    9. Re:Narrative rules in games by mathx314 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, Left 4 Dead does have a story of sorts. It's never explicitly spelled out to the player or told in glamorous cutscenes. But sometime, sit down and play through the game looking around.

      In the safe rooms, you'll find graffiti messages from people looking for loved ones or giving advice to the travelers behind them. There's posters from some organization called CEDA that give advice on what to do if you've been infected.

      Outside, you'll find things like single bodies covered with a sheet. Why would a zombie be covered in a sheet? Easy. It's not a zombie, it was a survivor whose buddies covered him up after he was killed. There are cars with lights still on in the road scenes. Obviously the zombies hit hard and fast, or else people would not have left their cars running and went dashing to the hills.

      So play through and look for stuff like that, then compare to 28 Days Later and see them do the same things there. Stories don't need to be explicitly told to exist.

    10. Re:Narrative rules in games by D+Ninja · · Score: 1

      Huh...I never considered all of that.

      L4D is going to have a very new appeal for me the next time I play. Thank you!

    11. Re:Narrative rules in games by orta · · Score: 1

      A lot of this info is obtained by playing through the directors commentary. Definitely worth the 15-30 minutes of listening/playing if you want to understand the game better

      --
      my band is more brutal techno punk than yours
    12. Re:Narrative rules in games by woopate · · Score: 1

      Actually, Left 4 Dead has an embedded Storyline, similar, or actually probably closer in nature to an expansion of the narrative style of Portal.
      There is evidence of a story that has transpired, but you don't need to find it, the story is implied, there are no real absolutes to what happened.

      In Portal, this is accomplished with the empty rooms, the Ratman hidden areas (ajar wall segments you can get behind and see graffiti, pictures, and general crap that some guy who might have lived behind that wall for some time left behind)

      In Left 4 Dead, you can see it most obviously in the graffiti of the safe rooms. An argument scrawled by several waves of survivors who have used that room arguing with their graffiti about the time it takes to change from a human to a zombie, or the proclamations of success of other survivors "No Zombie is Safe from Chicago Ted."

      But aside from the safe rooms, you can see it a bunch in other places too; corpses that have been covered with blankets on the side of the road(showing that somebody might still be around to remember the dead), abandoned or destroyed barricades, or the hundreds of names on the wall just outside the church saferoom, who were presumably either the people killed because Crazy Church Guy wouldn't let them in, who wanted to somehow be remembered, or previous survivors who thought a church was a fitting place to list the dead.

      So yes, Left 4 Dead has the storyline of "Here are some Zombies", but Portal also has a storyline of "Solve the puzzles, then escape the evil computer."

    13. Re:Narrative rules in games by Keill · · Score: 1

      No. Again, you're getting mixed up between story telling - (which is what the article is about) - and story WRITING, which is what GAMES are about...

      Sure, you can tell stories in games, but only at the expense of the story being written, which is why the two are generally interleaved.

      The ONLY thing that's really any different in computer games, compared to any others, (say, board games), are the options and power over stories the player can WRITE, not the story the game has to tell - since they are already defined independently of games, regardless of whether they run on a computer.

      --
      'Stupidity is an often fatal disease' - R. A. Heinlein
    14. Re:Narrative rules in games by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Left 4 dead is a great example.

      Left 4 dead need a back story. We have all seen the typical zombie back story 1000 times. What makes the game is that it is totally immersive. It puts you into the zombie world and you really feel the tension and the fear. When you get stuck, an NPC says something like "let's try up this ladder" or "the boat is here, let's go!" Everybody knows what they are doing in L4D, and where they are going and why. It needs no explanation.

      Compare that with Doom, which gave you a gun and some demons, but it did need a back story. The situation was new and unfamiliar. And the enemies changed, and you were going somewhere - but you never knew where or why.

  6. PhD Thesis on a Similar Subject by gringer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you want to have a read of something a bit more meaty, try this thesis (title: VIDEO GAME VALUES:
    PLAY AS HUMAN-COMPUTER INTERACTION):

    http://www.pippinbarr.com/academic/phd.php

    Not quite the same subject, but it does deal with narrative a tiny bit (e.g. section 5.3.3).

    p.s. this guy managed to score an Xbox and PS2 for "research purposes", which were (and probably still are) enjoyed by many in the graduate lab.

    --
    Ask me about repetitive DNA
  7. challenge: storyline for donkey kong by panthroman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    TFA makes it sound like nobody thought storylines were important initially; but in the days of Donkey Kong, were non-superficial storylines even possible? With such repetitive gameplay, could good storyline exist?

    Maybe the more creative out there could enlighten me. Can you make a good storyline for Donkey Kong?

    (Oh no! Kong found more barrels! Again!)

    1. Re:challenge: storyline for donkey kong by Bangmaker · · Score: 1

      But this barrel was far more special than the last. It contained over five-hundred billion bananas. (why they are important I don't know)

    2. Re:challenge: storyline for donkey kong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, he kidnapped Pauline. This is very overt in the game. The game itself doesn't explain why, but it could.

      All you have to do is give Donkey Kong a motive for kidnapping Pauline. I know he's supposed to be like King Kong, but that doesn't mean you can't give him a different motive.

      Maybe it's revenge and your hero is actually an anti-hero? Maybe Pauline ate one of Donkey Kong's bananas and Mario just happens to be hitting that. I don't know.

      Hard to say. The Mario and Donkey Kong franchises currently represent both as the "good side." If you really wanted to, you could shift that into a "no side is really evil, they just have different perspectives and that's why they fight" kinda thing.

      On an semi-related note, the graphics/gameplay of the GameBoy cartridge were vastly improved and it even had a bit of a story to it where you caught up to Donkey Kong and he dragged the damsel away to a new land. There are some 100 levels in the game. Some of the levels were quite challenging for kids.

    3. Re:challenge: storyline for donkey kong by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know, it's funny you bring up Donkey Kong because that game actually had more story than 1000s of its contemporaries. An Italian plumber climbs a construction site to save his girlfriend who was kidnapped by a giant monkey? Much more than the "shoot the ships", "shoot the rocks", or "racecar" which made up most of the other games at the time. Japanese-made games always struck me as having overly complex and convoluted plots, even when they weren't necessary. Even generic, copycat 90s shoot-em-ups had these long stories of how the spaceship pilot got there. I mean, who cares? It's a shooting game, it's mental pachinko.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    4. Re:challenge: storyline for donkey kong by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      The reason games pre-1985 rarely came with stories was due to the memory limitations. Most games didn't have more than one repeating screen so the purpose, like darts, was simply to see how many points you could get. Donkey Kong's great "innovation" was that it had 4 different screens. Seriously, the magazines at the time made a big deal about it - and of course other games like Ms. Pacman quickly copied the innovation.

      That doesn't mean games were entirely story-free. In the 1970s Atari developed Superman for their VCS/2600 console, which had an actual story following the familiar "Lois was kidnapped by Lexx" plot. In 1981 that same programmer used the engine to create Adventure, about a man trying to comb the countryside to defeat dragons, explore dungeons, find the golden chalice, and bring it back home to his castle. Other similar titles with storylines included E.T.*, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Pitfall 2, and Haunted House (the first survival-horror game).

      Stories may have been primitive in the era of only 2 or 4 kilobytes, but they did exist and the games were a heck of a lot of fun. People who owned more-advanced machines like the Atari 800 or Commodore 64 could play text adventures or text-graphics adventures like Zork and Mindshadow. The latter game was about a man who awakens on an island and he has no memory of who he is... first you learn to build a fire, which attracts a ship, and then you get back to "the city" where you uncover clues to your real identity, who killed you, and eventually you kill them. Ahhh sweet revenge. ;-)

      *
      * A lot of people malign E.T. but it was one of my favorites when I was a kid. Yes it was challenging. How is that a bad thing?

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:challenge: storyline for donkey kong by jollyreaper · · Score: 3, Interesting

      TFA makes it sound like nobody thought storylines were important initially; but in the days of Donkey Kong, were non-superficial storylines even possible? With such repetitive gameplay, could good storyline exist?

      Maybe the more creative out there could enlighten me. Can you make a good storyline for Donkey Kong?

      (Oh no! Kong found more barrels! Again!)

      You really have to make a distinction between simplistic arcade games and what we're able to do now. But as I recall, they did do a Donkey Kong Jr. game with a storyline and there's all the Mario incarnations.

      If we compare it to cinema, Donkey Kong would be the early nickelodeons playing silent, extremely short shorts. NES games would be the equivalent of the silent film era and then we move right in to today. Just as story became more and more important in making a good movie, same goes with games. But we also see movies and games where that is completely ignored. With certain movies, it doesn't seem to hurt. Transformers is probably one of the worst movies I have ever seen, and when factoring in the massive budget involved in making such a shitburger, it's even less excusable. It was an insult to thinking men and women everywhere. But thinking people weren't the intended audience. That sucker did business like crazy. There's a sequel coming out promising to be even worse than the first. It'll do well, I'm sure. Still, it would have been better with a script.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    6. Re:challenge: storyline for donkey kong by Aceticon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How could you have missed the psychological depth of Manic Miner, a man driven to go ever further surmounting ever harder and ever more dangerous obstacles, the tragic drama of Pac Man, a caricature of a man, forever trapped in a maze pursued by unrelenting foes.

      Did you not saw the deep sociological implications of the hive-like mind of the aliens in Space Invaders having unbounded persistence and yet never faltering and never deviating from their group dance.

      Did your hearty not skip a beat at the drama of the ball in Pong, unable to follow a path other than that which was set by others it's destiny in the hands of two conflicting personalities.

    7. Re:challenge: storyline for donkey kong by zehaeva · · Score: 1

      I long for mod points, If I had any they all would belong to you.

    8. Re:challenge: storyline for donkey kong by Ren.Tamek · · Score: 1

      I 100% disagree with you here. In my perfect world, the Transformers movie would be a 45 minute continuous cinematic of giant robots transforming and un-transforming themselves while fighting each other and smashing up scenery. It wouldn't have any storyline besides Autobots vs Decepticons, and it wouldn't even have any dialogue. That's exactly what I went to the cinema to see, and if you just ignore all the bits where people are saying stuff it's a very satisfying movie.

      Donky Kong is a great game for the same reason. It's not thinking entertainment, you jump over barrels and collect stuff and have fun. It doesn't need a story, and providing one would probably only make it worse.

      Now I can enjoy Donky Kong and Transformers while still enjoying Shadow of the Colossus and Dr. Strangelove. Both types of entertainment are equally valid for different reasons. Similarly, there are people out there who seriously value huge expositions and games that are basically playable movies. I think that sucks, but Metal Gear Solid 4 still broke sales records. Who am I to tell them they're wrong?

      --
      "If you want a vision of the future, Winston, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever." - George Orwell, 1984
    9. Re:challenge: storyline for donkey kong by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      The question should be: Does Donkey Kong really need a story? Did it need one? Not that I know.
      Many old-media people use the "missing" story of games as an argument to say that they aren't art. Or not really creative. Etc.
      But in reality, every entertainment there will ever be, will be a subset of what a game can be.

      The point is: You do not have to have everything in it at the same time. Team ball-games certainly do not have a story, do they?
      Some games have story. Some don't. Some are abstract. Some have a very detailed storyline and world. None of that is better than the other. Too much story/world leaves no room for imagination. No guidance at all and total freedom can feel boring. (Because you do not want a simulation of the boring reality.)

      Additionally, Donkey Kong was more of a toy, in the sense of an object to play with, than a game that you play in. It had to be.
      Which is not bad, if you think of other things that are toys. Maybe one could imagine it like this: Kong = Rubic's cube, barrels = the cube's mechanics, running over girders/ramps = rotating parts of the cube, Jumpman (later Mario) = your hands(?).

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    10. Re:challenge: storyline for donkey kong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I personally love the games that tell a story without words. They just put you in an unfamiliar place and let you infer what is going on. A classic I feel does a great job of this is Another World (aka Out of this World):
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_World_(video_game)

      If you have never played that I highly recommend it.

    11. Re:challenge: storyline for donkey kong by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

      Call me strange, but I really liked the little scenes in Mrs. Mac Man between levels. Pac runs this way, ghosts run that ... just little sprites zipping in straight lines, but there was a sense of pursuit, danger, and wily cleverness to them.

      Plus it was a nice breather after a hectic level.

  8. lame by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 1

    I clicked the link. I pressed F3. I typed "snake" with no result. I typed "solid" with no result. I closed the tab.

  9. Planescape:Torment by Mhtsos · · Score: 5, Informative

    I found the most enjoyable game storytelling technique in Torment. The hero is himself unaware of the story (has amnesia), and the player discovers along with him clues to his own past and the story behind the game setting. I loved how I got a first glimpse of what's going on and then the plot was progressively clarified.

    1. Re:Planescape:Torment by Homburg · · Score: 0, Troll

      I've often heard people praise Torment's story, but I'm not convinced. Or, rather, it may have an interesting story, but it's not a good example of game storytelling, because there's little match between the story and the game mechanics. Instead, what happens is you get assigned a standard RPG fetch quest, get given a chunk of story, do another fetch quest, get more story, etc.

    2. Re:Planescape:Torment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but your conversational choices alter your stats, which can open new conversational branches, which can then end up altering the ending.

    3. Re:Planescape:Torment by mcvos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Torment does right what so many other games do wrong when it comes to story. Cutscenes (or its precursor, story in a seperate manual) don't do it for me, because it seperates story from gameplay. I want story to be the game.

      Perhaps what I'm looking for is not storytelling, which implies a passive audience, but storyexperiencing. I want to be part of it, and only a few games (including Torment and Star Control 2) got that right. With most other games, the story is just too much removed from the gameplay that I just don't care.

    4. Re:Planescape:Torment by mcvos · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's exactly not what Torment is. It's a mostly dialogue-driven game that delivers the story through its main mechanism: dialogue. That's the problem with story in many other games: the story is kept outside the actual game, and that makes the story irrelevant. Torment is all about story.

    5. Re:Planescape:Torment by wjousts · · Score: 1

      For me, the best part of the story in Torment is that it avoided the cliched "you save the world" plot and instead the story was mostly agnostic to the fate of the world and concentrated on the fate of your character. Even at the end of the game, it was about restoring your mortality for no other reason than that was what you wanted.

    6. Re:Planescape:Torment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      What Planescape does is separate the storytelling from the plot - or to put it another way, it's not the destination, it's the ride. Although the major plot events happen anyway, different choices change how events unfold, and what parts of the hero's backstory are related. Almost everyone you meet is woven into the hero's history in some way, or offers you a different insight into the hero's condition. Even if the plot's the same every time, the story that is told is different.

  10. GTA 4's "Great" Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I never got how the media went nuts over the great plot of GTA 4. It really wasn't that good. It was completely scripted and most of the jobs you are doing for the different mobs seem completely disjointed and unrelated from an overall theme and plot narrative.

    Ok, there were a few plot diversions, but nothing completely major. The end was the best part (GTA4's "Godfather part III ending" moment), but again, it came too late in the game to save the direction of the game.

    Take a game like Deus Ex, or Knights of the Old Republic which allowed for different takes on problems, and a bit of a karma system. Different endings too. The world reacts around you and to the things you do.

    Deus Ex is a standout because your boss gives you a stern talking to if you go exploring in the women's toilets. Something you'd do in a game but not in real life (hopefully), but here, the game catches you out for it. ;)
    It's nice to find out later in the game that something you did a long time ago pops up again.

    Either way, to give the player complete freedom, the player should be able to start the game and go in a completely unique direction - so that there is no one real "true" ending and the game can get so divergent that the player ends up somewhere completely different towards the end in each case.

    1. Re:GTA 4's "Great" Story by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Ugh, karma systems... For some reason game developers these days tend to think that "morality" means either lawful good or chaotic evil with nothing in between. They don't give you a complex question where you have to weight your own desires against the fate of others, they just ask you whether you'll help someone or stab them in the face with no reason why you'd want to do the latter other than the game giving you better powers if your karma barometer points at "evil" (in some cases). You get to decide between being a saturday morning cartoon hero or villain, no proper motivation except "Hi, I'm a good guy!", "Hi, I'm a bad guy!". Often good characters get flooded with rewards while evil characters get nothing except attacked on sight by any NPC.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  11. "Homeworld" by ralphbecket · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That is all.

    1. Re:"Homeworld" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Homeworld was fantastic. Too bad the sequels didn't have quite the same magic.

    2. Re:"Homeworld" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      QFT. A decade later with PS3s and Xbox 360's and graphics cards I would never have even believed, I'm still waiting for Relic to go back to its roots.

      Dawn of War is great, but let's see Homeworld done right.

    3. Re:"Homeworld" by 16Chapel · · Score: 1

      Yup - fantastic storyling, didn't hurt that the voice acting was done properly and the sound & visual design gave such good atmosphere. Fallout had the same - really quite spooky.

    4. Re:"Homeworld" by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I bet they're not doing Homeworld 3 because they can't somehow shoehorn a cover and suppression system into it.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  12. A good youtube video by Wingman+5 · · Score: 1

    Video Games and Storytelling, this is a really neat YouTube video talking about storytelling in video games, told in a format similar to Zero-Punctuation.

    1. Re:A good youtube video by Wingman+5 · · Score: 1

      Video Games and Sex is the sequel, also fairly funny.

    2. Re:A good youtube video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i watched that clip, it did sum it up pretty well. I understand that such games can't be made in america but it's a shame that the more liberal countries can't make a game where sex and intimacy are portrayed as well as violence and conflict.

  13. Portal by Myria · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Portal had what I felt was an interesting way of telling the story. The "narrator" was mostly there to explain the rather quirky gameplay. Only in the later levels did she become part of the story.

    Much of Portal's story is in objects you find in optional areas of the game world - secret rooms you find behind walls. You only see the objects in the 3D world and have to read them yourself to understand their storywise meaning; nothing with them is directly narrated.

    In the end, your knowledge of the story is entirely inferred from vague clues and events you find throughout the game.

    --
    "Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
    1. Re:Portal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Im not sure about Portal but I did enjoy the story of Morrowind and Oblivion. Even if the game doesn't have any cut-scenes, you still got a crap-load of books through out the game describing everything from lore, to gods, to history, to plants and animals. The only problem for me is that your choices (or their lack)don't influence the main story line that much.

    2. Re:Portal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is actually a pretty typical Valve storytelling technique. If there is one thing that company has down, it is using characters to explain gameplay and using gameplay to establish plot. Whether it's HL2, Left 4 Dead, or Portal, there is always more story in the secret areas and easter eggs than in the entire rest of the game.

      Now, if they could only develop their damn games in a non-geological timeframe...

    3. Re:Portal by AndrewNeo · · Score: 1

      If you look deep into it, Portal is amazing for the fact that so little story is 'told', yet there are so many questions raised about what's really going on and who Chell is/may be.

    4. Re:Portal by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      You only see the objects in the 3D world and have to read them yourself to understand their storywise meaning; nothing with them is directly narrated.

      Which means that if your graphics settings were slightly lower than maximum the text was so blurry you could forget about reading any of it. For some reason the Source Engine gets used a lot for stories that can't be deciphered because the text cannot be understood, I can't understand what characters in its games say without enabling subtitles and those tend to lack some of the information.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  14. Came a long way, has a long way to go by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Storytelling in games is one thing, GOOD storytelling games is still another one. Now, considering what we now get in movies, game stories get closer and closer to movie stories, but sadly not because the game stories get better.

    There's also still the problem of replay value. Cutscenes are expensive to make. And you watch it ONCE. Maybe a few times if it's good and/or funny. But then, you skip.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Came a long way, has a long way to go by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Well, generally speaking, for linear games with cut-scenes, not only do you only watch the cut scenes once, you usually only play the game to the end once as well.

  15. The Ballad of Jumping Jack by TuringTest · · Score: 3, Interesting

    but in the days of Donkey Kong, were non-superficial storylines even possible? With such repetitive gameplay, could good storyline exist?

    In the early days of the Sinclair ZX Spectrum, Jumping Jack had a narrative delivered in a non trivial way. You would unfold a poem, line by line after completing each level. This is how it was delivered through gameplay, and this is the whole poem. (I'd never seen it complete before today! Thanks for making me remember).

    Is a limmerick a non-superficial story? The only thing I know, it did get you wanting to know which was the next line...

    --
    Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
  16. Linear, but well done by Hecatonchires · · Score: 1

    I really enjoyed portal. And HL2. System Shock2 was very similar. For just telling a tale, try Cave Story.

    --

    Yay me!

  17. Rise of the Dragon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sega CD game -Myst style, was reminiscent of Blade Runner movie. Everything was cool about the narration of the game. Then at the end they messed it all up with a cheesy 2 level arcade ending. I mean the last part was really stupid.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_the_Dragon

  18. Narrative != Gameplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A consequence of gaming going mainstream is that even a "hardcore" gamer these days isn't necessarily seeking a well-designed, well-balanced, maximally interactive game. Indeed, many of the best-selling and most acclaimed games of our time, are actually pretty terrible at being games, but they're pretty good at being interactive movies.

    For almost as long as games have existed, there's been a caveat that better graphics do not equate to better gameplay. Moving forward, it seems we need another caveat -- no matter how good a story may be, it doesn't make a good game. Only good gameplay makes a good game, and sadly the top-ranked games typically aren't very good.

    1. Re:Narrative != Gameplay by Mathonwy · · Score: 1

      Is this really the problem? Are there too many games that have good story and bad gameplay? It seems to me that (even among 'top ranked games') bad stories seem to outnumber the good stories by a pretty absurd margin.

      Heck, I'd even put the venerable halflife on the side of "good gameplay, bad story." Seriously - the story was just 'oops, we made a teleporter and now aliens are coming out.' That's basically the same story as DOOM... The only reason it was so awesome story-wise is because they TOLD their crappy story in an extremely well-done way.

      Games that actually have GOOD stories seem pretty few and far between, as far as I can tell. Not saying that they are automatically good games, it just seems funny to me that we're worrying that people are spending too much time on stories, considering how the majority of the current stories suck so hard...

    2. Re:Narrative != Gameplay by mcvos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Heck, I'd even put the venerable halflife on the side of "good gameplay, bad story." Seriously - the story was just 'oops, we made a teleporter and now aliens are coming out.' That's basically the same story as DOOM... The only reason it was so awesome story-wise is because they TOLD their crappy story in an extremely well-done way.

      That's actually what good story is about: telling it well. Lots of really great classic stories would have been lame if told by an idiot. A good storyteller can make the lamest story exciting.

      Of course a truly original and innovative plot would be nice, but those are rare in Hollywood and even in books. Most are about telling some lame cliche in a new, exciting and/or interesting way.

    3. Re:Narrative != Gameplay by PegamooseG · · Score: 1

      Video games are like any media of fiction. It's typical that the crap seriously outweighs the polished.

      I think some commenters are losing focus. Not every videogame needs to have a good storyline. In many genres, the gameplay outweighs the plot. Do you really need or even care about storyline for Tetris, PacMan, or any first-person shooter? Not really. What about board games? Do you really need a plot for Monopoly, chess, or Settlers of Catan? Nope.

      Good storylines are more essential for the role playing and interactive fiction genre of games. Storylines should to do the following:

      • Define environment
      • Provide goals
      • Define character
      • Provide information

      Pretty much the same as written fiction. If these elements are not necessary to play the game, then odds are the game itself does not need to focus on a storyline. It's superfluous at that point.

  19. Marathon by Macman408 · · Score: 2, Informative

    When I hear "story" and "video game" in the same sentence, I always think of Marathon. It didn't have anything fancy like cut scenes, or three dimensions... But it had an evolving plot. Beyond the "you're human, they're alien, go kill them before they kill you" that most FPSs use. It's certainly not the best, but for a game released in 1994, it was pretty unusual.

    1. Re:Marathon by CraftyJack · · Score: 2, Informative

      Marathon's storytelling was also very unobtrusive. You could get through the game with only a little bit of the story, or you could hunt for terminals and try to piece together the background.

    2. Re:Marathon by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Chapter screens in Bungie Marathon releases can be seen
      http://marathon.bungie.org/temp/cmullins.html

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Marathon by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Most relevantly, it was entirely in-game, so it never broke the illusion. No jumping out to cut scenes or any of that shit, just read the terminals. Amazingly it had text you'd want to read. Unlike, say, anything that would have been in Halo. I wish I knew why running and gunning in SWBFII is entertaining for hours (days!) while doing it in Halo just bores me. Maybe it's the tuck and roll button.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  20. We all know that by B1oodAnge1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    the best ever Game Story started like this:

    You're a marine, one of Earth's toughest, hardened in combat and trained for action. Three years ago, you assaulted a superior officer for ordering his soldiers to fire upon civilians. He and his body cast were shipped to Pearl Harbor, while you were transferred to Mars, home of the Union Aerospace Corporation.

    --
    RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
    1. Re:We all know that by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      What about the game story of "Go rescue the princess who has been captured by King Koopa?" That one was pretty good too.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  21. *Not* telling the story can work too by davet2001 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Although it was not mentioned in the original article, some games have been very successful by *not* telling the story, and leaving the player-protagonist to work it out. In Half Life 2, the player wakes up on a train, arriving at 'City 17'. There is very little information about what this is or why he is there. All you know in the first stages is that the environment is very hostile, and there are very few people who help you. You explore a town that has clearly been retrofitted with advanced security beyond it's original architecture, but no-one explains why or by whom. Civilians you meet are mostly in despair or injured, and there are clear signs of recent conflict (ruined homes, destroyed buildings). Most of the time, you can see a huge structure towering in the distance, which seems like a focal point but whether and how you'll get there is a mystery. The result is that you feel (or at least I felt) lost, confused, and quite alone at the start of the game, and intrigued to find out more. This builds up a bond with the character you are playing, and makes the arrival of friendlies (Barney, etc) much more significant. Providing the full setting of the story can detract from the realism, as it provides a perspective on the situation that a real person in the equivalent real-life situation would not have. I can only speculate about the armed forces having never served, but I suspect that in a real life battle, a front line soldier will probably not be aware of the full context of the setting, or it's strategic importance. They just carry out their duties such as a patrol, and all of a sudden one day, there's an explosion and someone starts shooting at them. They then have to figure out what's going on, survive a battle, and most likely only later think about why it all happened. I think there exists a balance between telling the story and not. Give too much information, and the story can become boring. Give too little information, and the player does not feel intrigued to play, and interest can only be sustained with gameplay. When done well, game designers will strike this balance well, and provide a good compromise between narrative, confusion, chaos, and action, all of which can be compelling.

    1. Re:*Not* telling the story can work too by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Mod UP!!! The genius of "City 17" is that it is a familiar theme throughout literary history, so the player almost knew what to expect. And just because there was no narration or cut scenes, the level building was done in such a way that you had to hit all the "story development stops, like meeting up with Barney. In short, HL2 is very much a story telling game.

    2. Re:*Not* telling the story can work too by Dennis+G.+Jerz · · Score: 1

      I agree that the lack of information and agency helps the player bond with the PC. Don't forget, though, the effect of Breen delivering his propaganda speech, and the little vignettes like the woman waiting for her husband, or the guy babbling in the train station. Those are atoms of narrative that do advance the story, chiefly by setting the scene, thereby providing a context for the action that follows.

      Breen's narrative doesn't so much tell the story as give us a story to work against, but it does play an important part in establishing the ethos of the world your'e about to explore.

      --
      Literacy Weblog http://jerz.setonhill.edu/weblog
    3. Re:*Not* telling the story can work too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I actually have an issue with that in HL2. In most cases, the player should know what the character knows. I got frustrated at the beginning, trying to figure out the mundane things that Gordon would already know.

      One of the most grievous violations of this was in the X-Files game. The first puzzle had you, the character, trying to guess *your own* password!

    4. Re:*Not* telling the story can work too by Rival · · Score: 1

      Well said. Mod parent up.

      After playing Half-Life, I suspected Half-Life 2 to be more of the same storyline. Instead, I was treated to a very confusing and surreal world, with no guidance or explanation. It was a joy and a comfort to find old friends; even familiar enemies were a relief. It was nerve-wracking to be dropped off in an invaded, oppressed world with some crazy plot in progress, with no information about it other than survive and keep moving forward. Not being told the story was a major success in Half-Life 2, as far as I'm concerned.

      Storytelling in a game is not a new idea; there have been many incredibly detailed text-based games made in the past. The genre title "interactive fiction" sums up the idea exactly. These games could tell a story, while filling countless hours with fun, excitement, suspense, confusion, and triumph. So what has happened?

      The problem is that the overhead for creating games has just become too high. These text-based games could easily fit on a floppy and run on hardware older than the average Slashdot user. They were usually written by less than a half-dozen people, and often by only one or two.

      Modern games, to contrast, all seem to require cutting-edge technology. Do you realize that games nowadays require three *orders of magnitude* more drive space, RAM, and processor speed than they did 20 years ago?

      In addition to the ridiculously powerful video cards, fast processors, and huge amounts of RAM needed to play current titles, the costs of making these games has also increased by three orders of magnitude. Half-Life 2 cost $40 million to make. Creating high-polygon-count models, scripting movements, writing and recording soundtracks, and paying for famous likenesses and/or voice-actors or makes it difficult to tell anything but a tightly-defined story. It's just not cost-effective (or even possible, factoring in time-to-market considerations) to make games that allow you to explore the world and tell your own story. All the money the game studio makes is in the initial sale, so replay value is not that important.

      The exception to this is subscription-based games. Since game studios continue to make money on a title, they can keep adding patches/add-on packs/world upgrades. This is an incremental development process, but the underlying concept still applies: it takes lots of money to make new games. That hasn't always been the case, but it's where we're at now.

      Storytelling, I believe, is leaving the studios and being put in the hands of the gamers themselves. In the last 5 years or so, there has been a large shift toward massively-multiplayer worlds. This unloads much of the storytelling burdon from the game developers, since it is based on user-interaction. The players narrate their own stories with their actions.

      Presently, there is another shift underway: toward user-generated content. This is an even bigger development, as it allows for user creativity and reduces the content-creation cost for the game studio. Users can finally make their characters look exactly how they want, in worlds that they create. These are amazing times.

      The only problem now is how to keep it all from falling apart. The studios want money, so they either have to control access or incorporate marketing. And many players who create content...well honestly, make crap. It's like the rest of the internet: you've got the pay-for-subscription quality content, the ad-laden decent-ish content, and the low-quality user content (usually also ad-laden.) Somehow there needs to be some sort of free-as-in-beer, free-as-in-freedom, quality game content available for everyone.

    5. Re:*Not* telling the story can work too by grumbel · · Score: 1

      All well and true, but for me that worked only for the first 15 minutes of Half Life 2. After that the game quickly falls apart. Not knowing things and feeling confused is all right and good as a start, because thats just where your character might be, but it just doesn't work when your job is to safe the world, as that is a thing that should require knowledge and talent which you should gain in the course of the game. But what Half Life 2 does is basically world saving by lucky coincidence, without any proper backstory, missions to accomplish or any clear structure, thats neither very interesting nor does it make good storytelling. Having G-man fucking with the timeline of course doesn't make things any better.

      Mystery is a good way to start a story, but its a terrible one to end it on, because then it becomes just way to clear that the writers follow the "make shit up as we go" kind of story writing and that never leads to satisfying conclusions.

    6. Re:*Not* telling the story can work too by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      All I can say is that I pretty much lost interest half way through Ravenholm, in part because I've seen a friend play past it and knew that the sequence after it wouldn't be worth finishing Ravenholm for.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  22. Oblig... by Argumentator · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Famous quote attributed to John Carmack: "The plot in a video game is just like the plot in a porn movie -- merely an excuse to get to the action."

    1. Re:Oblig... by EnsilZah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, and he makes his games accordingly, but some people enjoy games with more depth.

      I always thought of games as being divided into two categories:
      The skill based ones which most online games fall into, where you get your reward by beating an opponent, proving that you are more capable.
      And there's the story-based ones when, like a good movie or a book, and sometimes the gameplay is just something you do to get farther along in the story.
      Some games use singleplayer as one aspect and multiplayer as the other, some have a good balance of both aspects, but a lot are either in one category or the other.

      I enjoy both on occasion and I think that quote is a pretty narrow way to think of it.
      I enjoyed the original doom games and they were pretty good for the time, I also enjoyed Quake 3 Arena as a skill game, but I think id has been making pretty boring games since then with terrible storylines.

    2. Re:Oblig... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I enjoyed the original doom games and they were pretty good for the time, I also enjoyed Quake 3 Arena as a skill game, but I think id has been making pretty boring games since then with terrible storylines.

      It all went wrong when someone decided the games needed a story.

    3. Re:Oblig... by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      Well I enjoyed Doom 3 and quake 4 single player. I always find the idea of deep story in a Movie or video game a bit of a oxymoron. You just can't fit enough into them in terms of dialog or extra information to really get deep. This is less true in games but interaction takes away some of that narrative. But like a short story it can still be good.

      If I want a complex involved story I read a book. If i want atmosphere or action I play games or watch movies. If I want interaction I usually play online or with my wife.

      Id have been targeting a corner that they are good at and that has done pretty well. Half life went in a different direction and got a lot of fans too (I found it boring and didn't finish).

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    4. Re:Oblig... by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Heh.

      John Carmack was a genius at making video game engines. He pushed the frontiers or technology and visualization. I am a real fan, having played his games back to the days of Commander Keen. But he is clearly not a game designer.

      There's lots of quotes from John Carmack that are just like the ones above - he likes simple action games.

    5. Re:Oblig... by Duggeek · · Score: 1

      Famous quote attributed to John Carmack: "The plot in a video game is just like the plot in a porn movie -- merely an excuse to get to the action."

      Not just attributed, that quote is confirmed all over. Besides that, commentators have called him on it.

      The point being, a story is as much to the game as the game is to the story. If the story is just fluff to give moral rationale to the endless violence, then the story has no meaning. On the other side of that coin, there are stories that shape and define the game, so much that to miss the story means having to stab a guess at the next move.

      Thanks to energy drinks, a 2-second attention span and "personal expression" outlets like MTV, there is bound to be generation after generation of twitchy, impatient youth that can't see past the next achievement/medal/award so they can brag to their friends. Fine, we get it... the story angle just isn't for you.

      If you put forth the question, "Is the video game art?" I'll give you a definite, "maybe." It may or may not be art, but it has that potential.

      It can be a vessel for intriguing storylines, it can also overload the senses in ways we never before thought possible. The realm of electronic gaming transcends both lines of fine art and banal time-wasting. In this way, each game defines itself, the medium is that message... we choose the games by how we wish to spend our individual time, they do not choose us.

      Storytelling in games will exist so long as there is one more interesting tale to tell. If that's not your bag, then don't buy the game.

      Choice defines the market, not quotes.

      --
      This post © Copyrite Duggeek, all rights reversed.
  23. Infocom by deltharius · · Score: 1

    You want games based on the story? Take a look at Infocom. Founded in '79 and had nothing but story based games. I got my first computer (an Apple ][+) in '82 as a kid and spent much of my time on it playing Infocom games.
    And of course Softporn Adventures (which later became Leisure Suit Larry)...

    Hell, even Final Fantasy has more of a story than a lot of games these days. People became less interested in the story and plot of games and more interested in the flashy graphics. It doesn't take a lot of brain power to look at the spoon fed pretty pictures ... but to keep up with a story and solve puzzles and problems ... OMG I haz 2 think0rz!!11!! ... gamers have gotten lazy (lazier?).

  24. Tex! by cbrichar · · Score: 1

    For me, the perfect example of narration as a means of effective and immersive storytelling has to go back to the old Tex Murphy games - Under a Killing Moon, Pandora Directive & Overseer. The storylines were spectacular to begin with, but the ever-present narrator set the mood perfectly. (Another reason for their success could probably be attributed to the excellent quality of the sound production in all of their games.)

    ...and, purely as a rabid fan of the work the 'Tex' creators, I can't resist a chance to pitch their latest - Three Cards to Midnight was released just a few hours ago. Haven't had a chance to play it yet, but it sounds as though they've stuck to their trusted method of immersive story-driven gameplay and quality audio production. Can't wait!

  25. Planescape: Torment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    for me, this was the best ever "game as narrative", with baldur's gate 2 following a close second. I loved Torment's focus on choices unlocking memories and changing your stats as well as those of others, and it's titanic themes of tragedy and identity.

    I have been looking for a game like it ever since. BG2 was close. I guess the work involved in making these types of games makes them unprofitable. It's a pity but i can't see how to change that. The backstory for nameless was immense, and the romances in BG2 apparently were quite difficult to write (perhaps because the people involved in computer gaming aren't generally romantic, more's the pity (go viconia romance go!)).

    Does anyone know of a contemporary computer game with the focus on personal choices or romance, rather than blatting people real good (not that there's anything wrong with that, but it doesn't appeal to me)

  26. And you should stop assuming you're the standard by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Like, lets say, Left 4 Dead? Yeah, great story: "Here is your gun, there are zombies, guess what". And it is one of funnier games I've played recently. We should abandon the idea of games being a form of art, and retake them as a funny way to spend time.

    Each time I read something like that... I can't help getting the picture of someone with his head so far up his rear end that he assumes that he's not just a representative sample of 1 for the whole gamer population, and indeed world, but verily _the_ prototype from which all others were moulded. And if, god forbid, they happen to like something else, they must be deluded in some way.

    Guess what? We all play games "as a funny way to spend time." You're not revealing some great wisdom to anyone, you just reveal your own disconnect from the real world. The idea that someone actually tries to play games as some form of art _as_ _opposed_ to actually having fun, and to the exclusion of actually having fun, is a delusion that exists only in the imagination of fanboys. Again: we _all_ play games "as a funny way to spend time."

    We just find different things fun. Some like to read a book, some like to watch a movie, and some like their stories in a more interactive form. And then some others seem to genuinely like mindlessly mowing down gazillions of NPCs just for score/level/whatever. (And who am I to say there's anything wrong with it?) Different things for different people. That's all.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  27. I'm Sorry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your princess is in another castle

  28. It's all about dropping juicy details by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

    Why do we stay up way too late reading a gripping book? Because the author is dropping little tidbits we really want to know. We keep reading because we just know the answer is no the next page.

    The worst games I've played dole out the storyline like it cost a million bucks and most of it is filler or, a real sin in RPG's, stupid goblin nose quests. They could have just as easily had the quest tied into a major part of the plot but they didn't.

    The best games tie that story in there tight and everything keeps fresh. You're not just blowing away generic baddies, you feel like there's something involved in the story. You can really relate this to action movies. Lucas said and then forgot "A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing." Bad action movies don't setup the action, don't invest you in the characters, the motives, it all just comes across like a sloppy mess. But a good action movie, ah! You have a feel for the character, you know what's going on, and when the action scene kicks in, you feel engaged.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:It's all about dropping juicy details by demonbug · · Score: 1

      You can really relate this to action movies. Lucas said and then forgot "A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."

      I'd love to sit Lucas down to watch the opening of Revenge of the Sith and just play that quote over and over. Such an utter waste of tens of millions of dollars for special effects that left me bored to tears -- because it completely lacks any kind of story.

  29. Scattered notes by wjousts · · Score: 1

    This is one of my pet peeves with story telling in games, the reliance of scattered notes, diaries, e-mails, or whatever in order to advance the story. It's cliched and unnatural. For example, in the world of Rapture in Bioshock, apparently people had a habit of recording short (1-2 minute) audio "diaries" and then left them lying around. Who would do that?

    Would you kindly come up with a better way to fill in the back story?

    1. Re:Scattered notes by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      In System Shock 3, you'll just figure out people's Twitter usernames, and use their updates to fill in the back story.

      That would be kind of awesome; as you find more usernames, their comments get integrated into the timeline...

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  30. Half-Life 2 by AttilaSz · · Score: 1

    Half-Life 2 was revealing the story gradually through naturally occurring dialogues and events throughout the gameplay. It's one of best storytellings (no external narrative at all, actually, all naturally interwoven into the gameplay) I've ever encountered in a game. Portal gets a close second.

    I'm playing Bioshock now and honestly, the recorded diaries feel forced for a storytelling device.

    --
    Sig erased via substitution of an identical one.
  31. Good storytelling in (fairly) recent games by RogueyWon · · Score: 1

    I've seen quite a few games over the last couple of years that have really impressed me through the way they tell their story. In particular:

    Lost Odyssey - not the fairly standard Japanese RPG fare that makes up most of the game, but rather the text narrative used for the dreams. Very minimalist - just animated text on an almost static abstract background with a few ambient sounds, but they covered an impressive range of scenarios and even genres. A few were genuinely well-written, even by the standards of non-video-game writing.

    Valkyria Chronicles - awesome game (a genuine PS3 killer-title), awesome visuals and a very well-told story. The whole "book" device used to tell the story works extremely well. It's also notable that, unusually for a Japanese game, Valkyria Chronicles manages to avoid most of the usual anime cliches when it comes to its characters. The recently-started anime is sadly a bit more "traditional", making Alicia into more of a typical tsundere type, but it's still good stuff for a game-to-anime adaptation.

    Red Alert 3 - knows precisely what it is - pure B-movie schlock - and has a lot of fun with it. It's completely ridiculous in every respect, but it carries its storyline along with such energy that it's really difficult to care.

    Super Smash Bros Brawl - interesting one, this. The story's wafer thin. But, unusually for Nintendo, they did put a bit of effort into it and the game is far better for it. The short, punchy and completely over-the-top nature of the CGI scenes fits the game perfectly.

    Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 - integrates its storyline into the gameplay with consumate skill. Japanese RPGs are often criticised (not without truth, in some cases) for being essentially a series of cutscenes separated by fairly cookie-cutter battles. Not so with Persona 4. If you want to beat the game, not only do you need to fight through the dungeons and beat the bosses, but you also need to solve the murder mystery. At the risk of spoilers, the player is asked, around 90% of the way through the game, to identify the culprit behind the murders that have occurred throughout the game. If the player has paid attention, watched for background details and picked up on the right clues, he will be able to do so and procede on to the final dungeon. If he hasn't, then unless he gets a lucky guess (and there are a lot of options to guess from), it's BAD END.

    Portal - the best example around of a game which tells a story with a minimum of actual narration, at which it far surpasses the horribly over-rated Half-Life 2. Within the specific confines of Portal, the traditional Half-Life storytelling technique works fantastically. It doesn't matter that you've got next to no background information - it's easy to assume that the protagonist has woken up without her memory. It's also easy to accept that she doesn't speak - there's nobody to speak to. In Half-Life 2 by contrast, the technique fell flat on its face. Not only were we expected to believe that Gordon never says a single word, but we're also expected to believe that none of the other characters ever go "Oh, Gordon, you might want a quick update on what's happened while you were away...". This was just too much for my suspension of disbelief to handle.

    1. Re:Good storytelling in (fairly) recent games by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Lost Odyssey - not the fairly standard Japanese RPG fare that makes up most of the game, but rather the text narrative used for the dreams. Very minimalist - just animated text on an almost static abstract background with a few ambient sounds, but they covered an impressive range of scenarios and even genres. A few were genuinely well-written, even by the standards of non-video-game writing.

      That's because an award-winning short story author, Kiyoshi Shigematsu, was hired to pen the stories for that game (known as "A Thousand Years of Dreams"). Honestly, those story flashbacks were probably the best part of the game for me. The rest of the game was not bad, but ultimately somewhat forgettable.

      I have to say, I was caught completely by surprise, emotionally speaking, by the first one, Hanna's Departure. It is, in my opinion, an absolutely brilliant presentation of text, music, sound effects, and images. Notice that even the way the words are displayed can convey emotion - Hanna's speech actually conveys a bubbly, girlish charm in the way it's animated on the screen. In the narration of the present, the background remains dark with white text. During happier memories, the background is white with black text. And of course, a somber piano soundtrack - and appropriate silence at a key moment - helps to convey the mood as well.

      If I weren't such a manly man, I might even admit I shed a very tiny tear or two (manly tears, of course) when I watched this for the first time.

      In case you'd like to see (be sure to watch in HQ mode so you can read the text):
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHM2JUhIwAg

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  32. Has this guy played a game since 2000? by elrous0 · · Score: 1

    It would probably help more if the examples the guy cites weren't all two or more game generations out of date. Seriously, when I read that article, I thought I had stumbled onto something written eight years ago, not in 2009. No mention of the narrative in games like Oblivion, Fable, etc.? WTF?

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Has this guy played a game since 2000? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      What did Oblivion and Fable do that hadn't already been done in titles like Daggerfall or Quest for Glory? I'm not sure they broke any new ground with respect to storytelling. Would you be as surprised if you went to a film studies class and they more time talking about films like Citizen Kane rather than Slumdog Millionaire? My point is, learn from the classics, there's a reason they are classics.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  33. Myth by stewbacca · · Score: 1

    No love for the epic narration from the Myth series? At a minimum, those games had the best use of narration in tutorial scenes ever, and the maps and narrations gave Myth games a Lord of the Rings feel, years before the movies.

  34. Re:And you should stop assuming you're the standar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks, much.

  35. Today I Die by teko_teko · · Score: 1

    Here's a short indy game that has unique storytelling and gameplay, using interactive poetry: Today I Die.

  36. The best recent game for this.. by sesshomaru · · Score: 1
    --
    "MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
  37. The storytelling revolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The self-proclaimed king of storytelling, Chris Crawford, recently annnounced the release of a follow-up to his "Balance of Power". Read all about it here: http://www.storytron.com/

  38. Wait, I thought... by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

    I thought slashdot was for techies, not lit crit majors ;)

  39. I agree that player related storytelling is best.. by williambbertram · · Score: 1

    but how many games actually compel players to create enjoyable stories? Most games I've played are not good vehicles for storytelling because the players are compelled to focus on game mechanics. If you want a good story, read a book.