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Lala Invents Network DRM

An anonymous reader writes in with a CNet story about the record label-backed music company Lala, which claims to have invented "Network DRM." Lala has filed for a patent on moving DRM from a file wrapper, like Windows Media and FairPlay, to the server. Digital music veteran Michael Robertson has quotes from the patent application on his blog. (Here is the application.) Lala describes an invention that monitors every access, allows only authorized devices (so far there are none), blocks downloads, and can revoke content at the labels' request.

20 of 212 comments (clear)

  1. Bah by C_Kode · · Score: 4, Funny

    I cracked it yesterday. Next.

    1. Re:Bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're one fast cracker. I managed to crack Korn the other day but I don't care.

      -Jimmy

  2. If you can hear it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...you can record it. Case closed.

    1. Re:If you can hear it... by mister_playboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The more intrusive the DRM becomes, the more appealing the other alternatives get... just like digging your own grave.

      It's the same old problem of attacking the paying customers, while having no effect on those who don't pay for the content.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
  3. Finally the end? by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 4, Interesting

    With a little luck, this DRM will end up on the entire network of a major corporation (we could only dream it's IBM or Microsoft!) and lock up their operations so BADLY that the entire corporate world will lash out with lawsuits. The resulting backlash could spell the end of DRM for good.

  4. In other words by brian0918 · · Score: 5, Funny

    In other words, it's a patent on how to not distribute content.

  5. Vapor Fluff. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This "network DRM" seems to be a combination of old news and new buzzwords.

    The notion of conditional access to a server, or aspects of a server is decades old and utterly ubiquitous. If you have the credentials you can log in, access some file, do SMTP, whatever. This aspect of "network DRM" simply seems to be a renaming of password protected downloads.

    The second part of this system, which they seem to want to gloss over; but is obviously there, is some sort of client side DRM. Again, utterly non-novel. They claim that it is all on the network, and you can't download and copy; but that makes no sense. If your computer is playing it to you, you obviously did download it, and it obviously resides somewhere in your system's memory.

    This is pathetic. It's just a streaming service with client side DRM added on. Useless; but hardly novel.

    1. Re:Vapor Fluff. by AuraSeer · · Score: 5, Funny

      If your computer is playing it to you, you obviously did download it, and it obviously resides somewhere in your system's memory.

      They thought about that. The audio data itself never actually gets to your computer; it all resides on the server and is played from there.

      They just need really, really big speakers so you can hear the music from your house.

    2. Re:Vapor Fluff. by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is pathetic. It's just a streaming service with client side DRM added on. Useless; but hardly novel.

      Yeah, but you missed the unwritten part of the patent: installed without the user's knowledge on inserting of a CD. Additional methods include make a default part of major operating systems ;)

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  6. This isn't exactly DRM by orclevegam · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This technology isn't exactly DRM, although it plays a roll similar to DRM. Essentially what they've done is put a access layer on a streaming server, which isn't really anything new. It's not exactly DRM as DRM is used to manage (cripple) what you're allowed to do with a file, where as this system is more like putting a tollbooth on a road. In theory once you've sucked the content down you could just rip it to a file much as the previous attempts at controlling streaming media were circumvented. Also, due to the streaming nature of this approach it's more or less doomed to failure as it won't work on anything that doesn't have a permanent internet connection (IE iPods, by far the dominate portable media player out there).

    --
    Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
  7. When I buy something by Reed+Solomon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You see, when I buy something, I like to own it. If I buy a car, I like to know that the car won't be taken away from me just because I lend it to a friend. If I cannot own something or there are stipulations, then I will not buy it. If there is no alternative than "piracy", I will obtain it. Simple as that. Why am I not buying Blu-Ray discs? I cannot be sure they will be playable for all time on my Linux computer. If I download a pirated mkv high def movie, I know that it will always be supported.

    In conclusion, this won't stop illegal downloading. The only thing that can stop illegal downloading is treating your customers with respect and offering something of value, not the latest in a long line of DIVX/DRM garbage.

    Then again, maybe the rest of the world isn't like me. Maybe most people in the world are stupid enough to pay for something they won't actually own.

    1. Re:When I buy something by zmollusc · · Score: 4, Funny

      You are too narrow-minded, I am quite willing to pay for DRM content. I do stipulate restrictions on how my money (and it is *my money*, i designed it myself) is used: it cannot be transferred to another country, nor transferred electronically, it is forbidden to reproduce likenesses of it, I offer no guarantee that it will continue to function, I reserve the right to cancel it at any time without notice, etc.
      Astoundingly, despite their claims to support DRM, no music or video company will let me purchase their products.

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
  8. Claim 7 Has Your Number by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...you can record it. Case closed.

    Yeah, but this amazingly intrusive technology was planning for that:

    (i) scanning storage files of the user's computer to identify any digital media content files stored therein,(ii) uploading a list of any identified digital media content files to the host computer system, and(iii) adding to the list any digital media content files that the user purchases from the purchasing component of the host computer system

    You would think it would end at notifying the mothership that you are in possession of that file. Nope, from the details:

    For each digital media file on the list, the Uploader finds the matching source file and transcodes the media into a format supported by the system components, if necessary.

    Man, I can't wait to install that uploader only to find my entire MP3 collection has been transformed to .lala and no longer works unless I pay for it. Sounds a bit like my medical records.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Claim 7 Has Your Number by mazarin5 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Geez....how are they gonna convince someone to let them load this crap on their computer?

      Funny mouse cursor?

      --
      Fnord.
    2. Re:Claim 7 Has Your Number by theworldgoesaway · · Score: 5, Informative

      This really isn't at all accurate. It doesn't do *anything* to your local content. It uploads a list/files for your music to a central server, which you can then stream (but not download) through their (quite nice) web-based media player. It's basically a way to access your music away from home. I use it all day long at the office to listen to music - and I can get my whole collection (not just what fits on my iPhone) and I don't need to set up Orb or something like that. Again, it does NOTHING to your local music.

      In addition to that, they will sell you streaming-only songs (available through the same web player) for 10c a pop. No, you can't download them, etc, but they're 10c. So I can check out an album I like for $1, and if I decide to get the mp3 version (no DRM), they sell that for a standard price and apply the 10c you already paid to the price.

      Really, there's NOTHING sinister going on here. It's actually a really great service. I have no affiliation with them, but I'm a very pleased customer. I listen to music via Lala all day at work, and I buy a lot of music for streaming through them. It's an excellent, well-designed store and media platform. I lose no control over my own media, and I'm happy to pay an extremely discounted rate for *access* to other music, with the option to pay for DRM-free MP3s. It's a valuable service, and I lose no control whatsoever. I do wish they'd give me the option to re-download music I'd uploaded (so it could serve as a backup, not just an alternative form of access), but I imagine that's as much a bandwidth issue as anything else.

      In short, this is a highly misleading and biased article. There's nothing sneaky or underhanded going on here, this is Michael Robertson bashing a competitor who has a far superior and really quite excellent product.

  9. Lala - Hilarious Clowns by earlymon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wish I were making this up - seriously. But's true - check out how nefarious these assholes are and how stupid people that they are still in business. For your dining and dancing pleasure, I submit, from TFA (emphasis mine):

    The patent proves Lala is trying to develop a new type of DRM, according to Robertson. Instead of wrapping individual songs in DRM, Lala's plan calls for a network to act as a fortress that surrounds an entire music ecosystem. Lala CEO Geoff Ralston confirmed that Lala filed the patent but denied the company is trying to wrest control away from users.

    "It's a patent around Web Songs," Ralston said.

    Web Songs are one of the cornerstones of the company's latest business model. Lala, which has switched focus from two prior models, now offers three main features. In the first, MP3s unprotected by DRM can be purchased and download for rates comparable to iTunes. A second option offers users unlimited, ad-free streaming access to music they already own. The way this works is that users allow Lala to scan their hard drives and preserve a list of the songs the person owns. Lala's system will then stream its own copies of the songs to the user. This way users don't have to worry about losing their music to hard-drive meltdowns or misplaced music players.

    Lala's last feature allows people to listen to streaming music--that they don't already own--for 10 cents per song. Lala calls these Web Songs. One of the ways Web Songs is different than MP3s is they can't be downloaded to a portable device.
    "A Web Song by definition has a limited set of rights associated with it," Ralston said. "One right you don't have is the right to take it with you. It's not a portable song. Another right you don't have is to copy it. Everything has limited rights, even an MP3. You're not allowed to take an MP3, copy it, and sell it."

    Here's another slice, for those who'd like to avoid RTFA (emphasis NOT mine):

    "A network-based DRM system manages digital media assets stored in the network," states the document from Lala, which has been praised by music labels and has financial backing from Warner Music Group. "The system provides consumers with access to the digital media from any device connected to an electronic network such as the Internet, while enforcing the intended uses by the copyright owners."

    "The Web restricted nature of the offering," Lala writes elsewhere in the filing, "means that the digital assets are at all times controlled by the system and thus result in minimal piracy."

    Love the language - minimal piracy. Think about it.

    --
    Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
    1. Re:Lala - Hilarious Clowns by zenslug · · Score: 4, Informative

      As an employee of Lala I can tell you that we're definitely not evil. At least I don't think so.

      Yes, we have a scanner. Downloading it and running it is completely optional. The only thing we do with it is to grant access to allow you to stream the music you already own. It's not a conspiracy, seriously. It ties in directly to the concept of putting your music collection online. If we can get people to use Lala like some people use iTunes (which requires all your music to have people use it regularly), then we'll have more opportunities to sell them DRM-free mp3s.

      But we also have a 10-cent price-point for unlimited streaming of a song. You pay 10 cents and you can then stream that song on the website as much as you want. It goes into your online collection. That is there to help us cover our licensing costs that we pay to the labels. Will it work? Some people like it. Are they fools to buy it? Depends on your perspective, but there is always the risk that Lala goes out of business, sure.

      So you combine the 10-cent "web song" which lives in your online collection with the music you already own (we don't care where you got the files), and now there is only one place to go to access your music, and that is Lala. That's the concept, at least.

      Yeah, we got investment from a music label. They are not a controlling interest, and they have never approached us with any evil demand for info on what people upload. They agreed to this feature (after having sued others over the same concept years earlier) because they have learned lessons of the past. They have a long way to go, though. They're slowing learning.

  10. Re:Revoke content? by Burkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, people are SO going to purchase content that can be revoked on a whim.

    You mean like how no one uses the iTunes store or Steam?

  11. I've thought about this at length. by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 4, Informative

    The basic idea is that content is encrypted with a per-user public key, where the private key is held ("securely", for some definition of "securely") in display and playback devices that the user owns. When a private key is issued to a user, it is delivered in a secure (again, for some definition of "secure" key store, from which a limited number of copies can be imported to "authorized" (using some PKI mechanism) display and playback devices.

    This has the benefit that content can (a) be copied for backup and archival purposes, (b) played on a "reasonable" number of devices a user owns, (c) played on other devices via temporary "secure" key export and import functions (so you can watch your movies at your friend's house, but not on your TV at the same time, unless on an "extra" TV -- within the limits of key copies), (d) lent to a small number of friends to access your library, and (e) allow anyone to make content for your display and playback devices (remember, the encryption key is public).

    This is not rocket science, and to "someone practiced in the art" of PKI, strikes me as sufficiently obvious as to invalidate any patent claims.

    It suffers from two problems:

    First, the concept of someone having possession of a decryption key and not access to it are at odds. Like I said, "for some definition of 'secure'" Tamper-proof crypto chips are not cheap. Of course, the cost of extracting a key to allow access to one person's licensed media probably makes it sufficiently impractical: if media are watermarked as well as encrypted on a per-licencee basis, tracking back to who's key was used to crack some content would be easy, as well as an individual who licenses excessive amounts of content (to crack, and illegally redistribute in plain form, or encrypted with others' public keys).

    Second, and more troubling, is that it does not allow for arguably fair uses: mashup videos, for example, because one can't extract some of the content, and how much could be extracted as a fair use would depend on the use. Some arguably legal fair uses could be prevented, and others abused by a group of indivuduals to reproduce the whole from the sum of arbitrarily small parts.

    The issue of what happens when one loses a device holding private keys to one's media also deserves consideration. Of course, content providers could form a consortium that provide key escrow services so that lost keys could be recovered.

    --
    In Liberty, Rene
  12. Re:where's our song rewriters.. by scrib · · Score: 4, Funny

    What'll you do when it gets quiet
    and nothing's stored on your hard drive?
    You've been renting not owning all those songs.
    You know it's just a foolish buy.

    Lala, I'm typing on my keys.
    Lala, I need my MP3s.
    Lala, darling please release my music files.

    I tried to tell you not to do it,
    that the server would go down.
    Like a fool, you used their music tools,
    Now you're left without your sounds.

    Chorus

    Let's store all of our own information,
    you know it saves us from the pain.
    Please don't say you've found a better way,
    we've tried things in the same ol' vein.

    Chorus

    --
    Help! Help! I'm being repressed!