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More Fake Journals From Elsevier

daemonburrito writes "Last week, we learned about Elsevier publishing a bogus journal for Merck. Now, several librarians say that they have uncovered an entire imprint of 'advertorial' publications. Excerpta Medica, a 'strategic medical communications agency,' is an Elsevier division. Along with the now infamous Australasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine, it published a number of other 'journals.' Elsevier CEO Michael Hansen now admits that at least six fake journals were published for pharmaceutical companies."

249 comments

  1. Not true. by AltGrendel · · Score: 5, Funny

    According to their wikipeia entry, they are entirely legit.

    --
    The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination

    - Douglas Adams

    1. Re:Not true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Not anymore!

    2. Re:Not true. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Funny

      According to their wikipeia entry, they are entirely legit.

      True! And it's also interesting to note that according to its own entry, Wikipedia is also legit.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:Not true. by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hmmm... "Funny" isn't what I would have modded...

      But this will in a few blows make all reviews related to the companies involved basically invalid.

      And it will also cast a dark shadow over a lot of other reviews in other medical magazines.

      I would recommend editors to remove all reviews currently for Merck products as well as all reviews provided by "Australasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine", "Excerpta Medica" and "Elsevier" just to be on the safe side until the sources of every review from those sources can be verified. And other reviews would have to be deeply scrutinized before added too.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    4. Re:Not true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      My daughter is a pharma copywriter who used to work for a major Ad Agency. She was asked to write a "peer reviewed" article for her product based on a collection of inconclusive studies and to make them look like they were all one big positive study. Her "drug" was a combination of other drugs and no study of the combined drug was ever undertaken but the underlying drugs were well known and thus required no FDA approval. The ethics and editorial board in her Ad Agency rejected the idea but her boss insisted so my daughter reigned. This just happened again at another agency and she resigned again. I have to think this is endemic to the pharma industry. I'm not sure what to do about it but seriously question the validity of ANYTHING they claim.

  2. And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... not a damn thing will become of it because everyone who can do anything about it is in Merck's pocket.

    1. Re:And... by Froboz23 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I know one good thing that will come out of this. I'm blacklisting Merck.

      Before reading this article, I was neutral toward this company. I didn't really know much about them. But now I know they are not to be trusted. I will make my best effort to avoid using any of their drugs, and I will be wary if any doctor tries to prescribe a Merck drug to me. And more importantly, I will not own any of their stock. Just this week I was reviewing my stock portfolio to do some more dollar cost averaging into the market rebound. Merck is now purged from my portfolio, and I will keep an eye out for it in any index or mutual funds that I buy. They are now in the same list as Monsanto.

      I will also pass this article along to my fiends and co-workers. Hopefully they too will take this into consideration before buying their stock.

      The justification for not owning their stock is not just moral. It is an economic concern as well. If a company behaves this recklessly, it puts itself at economic risk, as already demonstrated by it's multi-billion dollar Vioxx recall.

      All major corporations are engaged in morally dubious behavior of one kind or another. But when it becomes this excessive and blatant, I have to draw a line.

      --
      Take off every Sig. For great justice.
    2. Re:And... by jonadab · · Score: 1

      Frankly, if I were picking out stocks, drug discovery is probably the field I'd be most eager to avoid anyway. The risks they take (economic risks, I mean) are just too large, worse than venture capital if that's possible. Almost every drug candidate they put forward fails at some point along the line before making it to market, and the ones that do make it to market carry a high risk of subsequent discovery of previously unknown long-term side effects leading to extreme lawsuit hazards. In the rush to push the drug to market in time to get some serious money out of it (not just to cover development of that drug, but also all the others that failed before reaching the point of FDA approval) while they still *can* get some money out of it, before the twenty-year patent clock runs out, they push new drugs out to millions of people before there's time to see how the first test subjects do long-term. They have to operate this way. Nature of the business. But, given how much we don't know about new drugs when they first go to market, the law of averages suggests that sooner or later every single drug development company (well, every single one that doesn't just fail from lack of profitable marketable drug discoveries) is eventually going to get hit with a multi-gazillion-dollar class-action lawsuit of shattering ruination.

      Okay, so if I'm holding a mutual fund that happens to have some pharma stock mixed in as part of a suitably diverse portfolio, I'm probably not going to sweat that.

      But I would not select a pharma stock directly. I would view it as a bad risk.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  3. Bad Feeling by muridae · · Score: 1

    I have a bad feeling that, as people start poking around, even more stories like this are going to be uncovered. Sure, Elsevier is admitting to six fake journals. What's the over/under for it being 20?

    Now, I wonder if Merck makes a drug to get rid of bad feelings like this. I'll have to check an Elsevier journal to find out.

    1. Re:Bad Feeling by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Funny
    2. Re:Bad Feeling by causality · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have a bad feeling that, as people start poking around, even more stories like this are going to be uncovered. Sure, Elsevier is admitting to six fake journals. What's the over/under for it being 20?

      Now, I wonder if Merck makes a drug to get rid of bad feelings like this. I'll have to check an Elsevier journal to find out.

      I'm not a doctor or any sort of medical practitioner. So, the following is just my personal opinion.

      The pharmaceutical industry is one of the most corrupt industries in existence today. I actually find pharmacology quite interesting, especially the idea that physical chemicals can impact the nonphysical/intangible mind. Seeing the way this industry operates made me decide some time ago that I can't in any good conscience join up with them, fascinating though the subject may be.

      There is one simple principle here: pharmaceutical companies cannot make any profit from healthy people. That's why you have so many "designer diseases" like Restless Leg Syndrome. Just think about how many people you know who do not regularly take some sort of prescription medication; they are becoming a minority. No one really questions this. No one with any sort of media presence is asking whether the fact that the general population is getting sicker and not healthier indicates that our medical system is fundamentally broken. Of course, you don't have to be much of a thinking man to realize that the media is not your friend, otherwise they'd ask questions like this and would go wherever the facts lead them, monied interests be damned.

      I was in my doctor's office once and I asked his staff a question. I asked her why it is that pharmaceutical companies advertise prescription-only medicines to the general public, since after all you are supposed to ask your doctor what is wrong and have that doctor determine what medicine you need. There's little room in that process for brand recognition on the part of the patient. She flat-out told me "because the pharmaceutical companies RUN this entire industry". I salute the honesty of her answer. I was half expecting some sort of "party line" on that one.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    3. Re:Bad Feeling by Anpheus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The pharmaceutical industry is one of the most corrupt industries in existence today. I actually find pharmacology quite interesting, especially the idea that physical chemicals can impact the nonphysical/intangible mind.

      Nonphysical intangible mind?

      Neurochemicals, man. Read about them. Any intro to psych course includes education on what a few of the major neurochemicals do and their role in defining who "you" are.

    4. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's why you have so many "designer diseases" like Restless Leg Syndrome.

      I have been diagnosed with that "designer disease", you dickwad. How did the doctor determine that I have Restless Leg Syndrome (RLS)? I have had two sleep studies at a local hospital. During the studies, dozens of electrodes connected to my body monitored everything from my brain waves to the movement of my calf muscles. The summary reports from the sleep studies show that I shift between different stages of sleep much more frequently than "normal" people. While reviewing the results of the first sleep study with me, the doctor pointed to a section of the sleep stage vs. time graph and said that I moved my legs 66 times per hour and awoke 22 times per hour. I don't get restful sleep like "normal" people because my legs move while I am asleep. The sleep doc that I was working with did not fabricate those results just to sell me more Requip or Mirapex.

      Please stick your "designer disease" comment for RLS up your ass.

      Thank you,
      -Scott

    5. Re:Bad Feeling by causality · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The pharmaceutical industry is one of the most corrupt industries in existence today. I actually find pharmacology quite interesting, especially the idea that physical chemicals can impact the nonphysical/intangible mind.

      Nonphysical intangible mind?

      Neurochemicals, man. Read about them. Any intro to psych course includes education on what a few of the major neurochemicals do and their role in defining who "you" are.

      Why do people insist on giving me the most simplistic of answers, always with the assumption that I never once came across them in any research on the subject? I'm not trying to complain so much as to point out that it's not necessary.

      To say that "the entire mystery is completely rendered moot by the concept of neurochemicals!" is the same thing as saying "I am a materialist." If you are so inclined, and if you find that satisfying, then good for you. Not everyone subscribes to the materialist worldview, and not everyone is willing to make the assumptions that are needed in order to honestly believe in it.

      In other words, to really give a satisfying answer to that mystery from a materialist perspective, you would have to flawlessly explain what consciousness is, precisely why particular arrangements of protons and electrons and neutrons bring it about, and why other arrangements of matter are not conscious (or for an interesting twist, why consciousness is an inherent property of all matter and highly ordered organisms are just a particularly refined expression of it).

      If you study pharmacology you will find none of those things. You mentioned neurochemicals. Go ahead and study them. What you will find is descriptions in terms of "well, when chemical X is ingested and reaches part Y of the brain, the patient reports Z." That does not begin to resolve any of the mysteries I mentioned. The explanations based on neurotransmitters, agonists, antagonists, receptors, etc. are just sophisticated forms of that same description. To begin to act like we have this all figured out is frankly rather silly. To think that you can answer the question I raised with the equivalent of a soundbite is to fail to appreciate the magnitude of this mystery.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    6. Re:Bad Feeling by Cylix · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the more frightening truth revolves around discovering which medical journals are actually real?

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    7. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems that also Springer is going down the same road:

      http://www.icst.org/news/26/

    8. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Anyone paying attention to Elsevier is aware that they have a long history of deception. Whenever they buy a company in the USA through one of their subsidiaries, they routinely lay off everyone, claim they are "borging" the jobs into their other subsidiaries, while in actuality offshoring the jobs to Asia (to avoid paying any minor taxes into state re-training programs).

    9. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You think pharmaceutical companies are one of the most corrupt? You've apparently never worked in penal systems or residential care. I could tell stories, but only anonymously.

    10. Re:Bad Feeling by langelgjm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is one simple principle here: pharmaceutical companies cannot make any profit from healthy people.

      They also can't make any profit off the majority of sick people in the world, either, because those people have no money. That's how you get situations like this:

      We found that, of 1393 new chemical entities marketed between 1975 and 1999, only 16 were for tropical diseases and tuberculosis. (Trouiller et al., "Drug Development for Neglected Diseases: a Deficient Market and a Public-Health Policy Failure." The Lancet 359, no. 9324 (June 22, 2002): 2188-2194.

      (Ironically, I got that through ScienceDirect). Yet while the pharma giants won't focus R&D on neglected diseases, they'll also lobby against any attempts to set up alternative incentive systems designed to stimulate research into those disease... probably too afraid that the alternatives will be more successful than the current patent system, and people will start to wonder why more drugs can't be developed that way.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    11. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >Now I have already said that this is my personal opinion and I am not a medical practitoner.

      Great. Thanks for letting everyone know that you are not a specialist in sleep disorders. So your opinion regarding medications used to treat sleep disorders holds as much weight as my opinion on how well someone speaks French (a topic I know absolutely nothing about).

      Here is my opinion: You are still a dickwad.

      Please continue to insert your comment about RLS being a "designer disease" into the orifice I mentioned in my previous message.

      Thank you,
      -Scott

    12. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're the one that's fucked up, stfu sick boy

    13. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      >You're the one that's fucked up, stfu sick boy

      Thank you, Anonymous. :^)

      But I can't be a "sick boy" because Dr. Causality has learnt us that there ain't no such thang as the Restless Legs.

      I guess the sleep docs have been lying to me and this "sleep disorder" stuff is all made-up. Maybe Dr. C was right about my problems being caused by my daddy never being home and my momma didn't hug me enough. :^)

    14. Re:Bad Feeling by Galaga88 · · Score: 1

      That's why you have so many "designer diseases" like Restless Leg Syndrome.

      I just wanted to say that I've had a few *very* sporadic occurrences of RLS (when I was younger), but if it was something that I had to cope with on a regular basis, I'd consider it anything but a designer disease. Yes it's weird, but I don't think you can appreciate how actually disruptive it can be until you've actually had to cope with it.

    15. Re:Bad Feeling by DaleGlass · · Score: 0

      To say that "the entire mystery is completely rendered moot by the concept of neurochemicals!" is the same thing as saying "I am a materialist." If you are so inclined, and if you find that satisfying, then good for you. Not everyone subscribes to the materialist worldview, and not everyone is willing to make the assumptions that are needed in order to honestly believe in it.

      That we don't know 100% exactly how it works doesn't mean there's any magic in it, or that there's anything intangible in there.

      Why we get sick used to be a mystery with lots of theories about magic, religion and bad air, until we managed to take a look at the tiny things that cause it.

      History so far shows that all those mysteries end up having very materialist explanations.

    16. Re:Bad Feeling by mikael · · Score: 1

      There was a similar story going around the conspiracy theory websites about a paper published by bentham.org relating to active thermitic material (flakes of paint that burn under intense heat).

      The Open Chemical Physics Journal

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    17. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Scott, you're a SHEEP.

    18. Re:Bad Feeling by PPH · · Score: 1

      That drug has one terrifying side effect: It wears off.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    19. Re:Bad Feeling by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Funny

      Calm down Scott. Please take your meds.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    20. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't have to be afraid. Just come out and say it: "I do believe in god"

    21. Re:Bad Feeling by Twiceblessedman · · Score: 1

      I was in my doctor's office once and I asked his staff a question. I asked her why it is that pharmaceutical companies advertise prescription-only medicines to the general public, since after all you are supposed to ask your doctor what is wrong and have that doctor determine what medicine you need.

      This seems to be a US-only phenomenon. I really hate watching American television stations in Canada because the majority of commercials are either ads for lawyers or ads for pharmaceuticals.

    22. Re:Bad Feeling by clang_jangle · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You seem to be proving my theory, based on observation, that "high strung people get jimmy legs". Cut back on the caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, refined sugar, and take a medtitation class.
      Dickwad, LOL. (sorry, couldn't resist...:)

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    23. Re:Bad Feeling by Mikkeles · · Score: 4, Funny

      You also seem to suffer from Restless Mouth Syndrome (RMS). I suggest yo try some BSD.

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    24. Re:Bad Feeling by causality · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't have to be afraid. Just come out and say it: "I do believe in god"

      The problem with that is you then have to explain what "God" means to you. My personal concept of that is quite unlike many of the more mainstream interpretations, though (perhaps because I have studied most major religions) it will sound very much like some of them. That makes this a thorny issue that is likely to create much confusion. Really, I was content with showing the limitations of the materialist worldview and I would greatly prefer that each individual works out for themselves whether they believe in God and what "God" means to them. I have always felt that such things, in their pure form, can only be a personal quest and are not something that another man can give to you, though he may be able to show you the way of arriving at your own understanding. Nowhere in this do you find a motivation of fear, my friend.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    25. Re:Bad Feeling by RepelHistory · · Score: 1

      In other words, to really give a satisfying answer to that mystery from a materialist perspective, you would have to flawlessly explain what consciousness is, precisely why particular arrangements of protons and electrons and neutrons bring it about, and why other arrangements of matter are not conscious (or for an interesting twist, why consciousness is an inherent property of all matter and highly ordered organisms are just a particularly refined expression of it).

      This is pretty much the same logical fallacy that the creationists use to undermine evolution. I can't think of the name of the fallacy off the top of my head, but it goes something like this:
      "So you believe in evolution, but can you calculate every single evolutionary step of how an amoeba evolved into a human?"
      "No, science hasn't gotten that far yet. Evolution is just a model to describe-"
      "AHAHA! You admit that you don't understand how it works! Evolution is a lie!"
      I'd say it's wrong to dismiss an idea completely just because the intricate details aren't fully worked out. And as for your point that not everyone is willing to make the assumptions needed to support materialism, many would argue that your worldview in fact requires more assumptions. Kindly step off of your high horse please.

    26. Re:Bad Feeling by causality · · Score: 1

      I was in my doctor's office once and I asked his staff a question. I asked her why it is that pharmaceutical companies advertise prescription-only medicines to the general public, since after all you are supposed to ask your doctor what is wrong and have that doctor determine what medicine you need.

      This seems to be a US-only phenomenon.

      Isn't it amazing how so few people in the USA are willing to question that? Even fewer are willing to say "I don't know" instead of automatically siding with those who stand to profit from this phenomenon. Like most problems, this one is systemic, and I'm not talking about RLS but about the decline of critical thinking.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    27. Re:Bad Feeling by woboyle · · Score: 1

      Gotta love The Onion! They get more hard news in their lampoons than just about anyone other than Fox... :^)

      --
      Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
    28. Re:Bad Feeling by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      Yeah, this guy is bonkers and probably is a creationist disguising his views because he knows what the reaction will be.

      He believes in immaterial magic for rather philosophically laughable reasons. He's shot his credibility, that's for sure.

    29. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      >Calm down Scott. Please take your meds.

      Well played, Frosty. I'd give you a mod point for that one if I could. :^)

    30. Re:Bad Feeling by nametaken · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're confusing two different discussions.

      The first is that the number of diagnosed and treated cases of RLS has gone up significantly since advertising campaigns began. The other is that RLS is diagnosed when it shouldn't be.

      It's quite possible that RLS was historically written off as blanket "sleeplessness" before. Now we're able to identify and treat it. This would be the result of a completely normal and legitimate evolution in our ability to practice medicine, not necessarily the result of us fabricating some "designer disease". Otherwise, at one time you could make identical arguments about any common affliction, claiming it's really just bad spirits, not some made-up disease.

      It's ALSO quite possible that too many people are diagnosed with RLS that don't have it. Or not. The important part is that they're two different statements, and that difference is whether or not you can infer a massive conspiracy.

    31. Re:Bad Feeling by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      "Since we don't have a fully scientific answer, it's magic! I don't know who broke into my car last night but since a 'materialist' account doesn't have an answer it must be the interdimensional greminlins!"

    32. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Restless Leg Syndrome is no "designer disease", it has well described neurological underpinnings and is a problem for many who are thankful that there exist drugs for it developed by big heartless corporations spending billions on this process.

    33. Re:Bad Feeling by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      I have a bad feeling that, as people start poking around, even more stories like this are going to be uncovered. Sure, Elsevier is admitting to six fake journals. What's the over/under for it being 20?

      Noticing a pattern here, I'd doubt, at a minimum, anything elsevier publishes with "Australasian" in the title

      Australasian Journal of General Practice, the Australasian Journal of Neurology, the Australasian Journal of Cardiology, the Australasian Journal of Clinical Pharmacy, the Australasian Journal of Cardiovascular Medicine, and the Australasian Journal of Bone & Joint [Medicine]

      Which is of course not to say that it's a codeword for "this journal is crap" and that every crap journal has it, just that's where I'd start.

      Reminds me of The Princess Bride
      "Vizzini: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you."

    34. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should print out this thread and highlight your username so someone reading it knows what you wrote. Then show it to a good psychiatrist. You'll probably have to go in for a few visits before they eventually prescribe something for your personality disorder.

      I'm not trying to be mean or funny.

    35. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >You have absolutely no reason to hate me

      Actually, I do have a reason: You posted a message on /. saying that you think RLS is a "designer disease". You are spreading mis-information that could potentially have a negative affect on someone who is searching the web for info on RLS. I don't want a person to read your "opinion" and think that you actually know what you are talking about.

      >for if you do that, the suffering is yours and does not affect me in the slightest.

      Do you do this passive-aggressive shit all the time? It's slightly annoying.

      >I'll give you some friendly advice.

      Free advice is often worth exactly what you pay for it...

      >calmly explain to that person why you believe they are misinformed. You may even convince them.

      I don't want to convince you that you are wrong. You are a nutcase and you are spreading mis-information that may have a negative effect on someone else's health. I suppose you are also anti-vaccination because the guvmint uses the annual flu vaccines for mind control.

      >What you're doing here, however, has no chance of working.

      And, once again, you are presenting your opinion. Personally, I think you are a douchebag and I don't care what you think will or will not work. My only concern is that your comments will harm someone else who reads them.

    36. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      >Dickwad, LOL

      I'm glad that I brightened your Saturday, Clang Jangle. :^)

      "high strung people get jimmy legs". Cut back on the caffeine, alcohol, tobacco,

      On a serious note, I have tried changing my diet to see if that has an effect on my legs. I have gone completely off caffeine for a couple of weeks. No change. I drink very little alcohol so there isn't much for me to cut out. I have never used tobacco. There are other dietary changes that RLS suffers can make like cutting back on high-carb foods at night. I have also tried supplements like magnesium. None of the dietary changes have helped me but that doesn't mean other people should not try them.

    37. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      >You also seem to suffer from Restless Mouth Syndrome (RMS). I suggest yo try some BSD.

      Thank you for the suggestion, Mikkeles. I am downloading it right now. I will give it a shot tonight. ;^)

      http://www.freebsd.org/

    38. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      >Scott, you're a SHEEP.

      Oh shit! That's the one thing the docs have not tested for. I will print your message and talk to the docs on Monday. I will need to do some research on what sort of dietary changes I should make if the tests indicate that I really am a sheep. I am indebted to you, Anonymous Coward. :^)

    39. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you also have nerd rage syndrome, Scott?

      Calm down.

    40. Re:Bad Feeling by Mutatis+Mutandis · · Score: 1

      Ah, everybody's favourite sport: Libelling the pharmaceutical industry. Especially funny in combination with the remarkable allegation that nobody seems to question its actions. I guess you spent the last ten years on a trek through the Kalahari?

      Having worked in this industry for most of my career, I have to say that I have yet to meet the corrupt pernicious vampires of legend. I have met quite a few idiots, and remarkable number of people who honestly try to combine helping people with running a business. Nobody says it is easy, and nobody says it is perfect. I've heard plenty of harsh words spoken by people within the industry, and at least they knew what they were talking about. I've said some rather harsh things myself.

      As it happens, I agree that companies should not be marketing prescription drugs to potential patients. It's a wasteful practice and it encourages even more waste. But as to why they do it...

      Too often, patients just want to be given some medicine. And the doctor wants patients to come back. So doctors, if there is no danger involved, are too often willing to oblige patients with a completely useless prescription. Having the doctor "decide what medicine you need" doesn't enter in the equation because you don't need any.

      But on the other hand, and this is important, even the best doctor can't actually decide what medicine you need. He or she can only decide what medicine is most likely to help you, an important difference. Even if the diagnosis is free from doubt (it often isn't), people just react to drugs in different ways. A drug that helps one person may trigger a bad allergic reaction in another one. That's why when a patient says "I like treatment X but Y doesn't really work for me", the doctor is likely to listen, and should. In the best case, such statements actually reflect the patient's medical history. I guess that must be pretty rare. Attempts to establish electronic medical records may help, up to a point.

      Maybe there will be a day when patients carry their entire genome and epigenomics with them on a card, and doctors will have software that can accurately identify which medicine best suits the patient. Don't hold your breath.

    41. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 0, Troll

      >Do you also have nerd rage syndrome, Scott?

      Calm down.


      You could have nailed the +5 funny if you had just added:

      "It sounds like someone needs his nap." :^)

    42. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Scott, I think I found the source of your sleep issues:

      http://www.last.fm/user/scottv67

      Seriously man, once you cure your crap taste in music you'll sleep like a newborn babe.

    43. Re:Bad Feeling by LordKronos · · Score: 5, Informative

      Try to find incidents of Restless Leg Syndrome (by that name or any other) prior to the advertising campaign. See for yourself how difficult that is

      You are right. It's nearly impossible. For instance,

      1) Open browser to wikipedia.
      2) Search for RLS
      3) Scan down to the History section

      "Earlier studies were done by Thomas Willis (1622â"1675) and by Theodor Wittmaack.[54] Another early description of the disease and its symptoms were made by George Miller Beard (1839-1883).[54] In a 1945 publication titled 'Restless Legs', Swedish neurologist Karl-Axel Ekbom (1907-1977)[54] described the disease and presented eight cases used for his studies.[55]"

      So you are absolutely correct, provided, of course, that you can show us that the advertising campaign for RLS began in the early 1600s or earlier.

    44. Re:Bad Feeling by Omestes · · Score: 1

      While I'm not nearly as bad as the person your replying too (and potentially bating) my legs indeed got all "twitchy" and kept me from sleeping BEFORE the "RLS" ads. It might not have been "RLS", since the term wasn't coined yet, but the symptoms were still there. I'm lucky enough to have it very mild, so I mocked it as well, but one of my freind's gets only 30% of normal sleep because of it, and this was true BEFORE, yet again, the ad campaign.

      In other words, just because Pfizer invented "ED" (Erectile Disfunction) as a term, they didn't invent the fact that some men had a hard time "responding". Yes, they raised consciousness, and even created a misguided capitalist frenzy, but it still was an existent problem which they found a fix for.

      I will agree with you on ADD (especially "adult ADD", its called "you have a boring life") and Aspergers. Both of these fit a need to make us feel special, and ADD, like most cases of depression, are normal reactions to an unhealthy environment. The difference, here, is that these are MENTAL disorders, not somatic ones.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    45. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      >Seriously man, once you cure your crap taste in music you'll sleep like a newborn babe.

      Dude! Please tell me that you did not just rip on The 80's. Who can have a bad day when they are driving down the freeway singing along to "Too Shy" by Kajagoogoo? :^)

    46. Re:Bad Feeling by Mutatis+Mutandis · · Score: 1

      (Ironically, I got that through ScienceDirect).

      Nothing particularly ironic about it: Drug developers from industry, the academic world, and non-profit organisations rub shoulders on scientific and industry conferences on a fairly regular basis. And there is some mobility between the three communities.

      probably too afraid that the alternatives will be more successful than the current patent system, and people will start to wonder why more drugs can't be developed that way.

      When it comes to neglected tropical diseases, the patent system has little to do with it. Patents are an issue when a disease afflicts both rich and poor. That sets up friction between pharma companies who want to have profitable pricing and a big price differential between rich and poor countries, and governments who want to push all prices down. However, when it comes to NTDs, usually all the patients are poor, so there is no money, no profits, and often no patents.

      It's not entirely true that pharma companies resist any solution. Their preferred solution has been to offer research products with potential benefit, but no potential profit, to non-profit organizations who do the clinical trials. While clinical trials in the industrialized world cost money on a scale that can probably make even Bill Gates blanch, foundations like that of Bill & Melinda can finance much cheaper clinical trials in the third world, if there is a supply of hardy and very determined volunteers. Whether this model will be sufficient in practice remains to be seen.

      The problem is in the first research stage, of course: Currently there is no incentive for the companies to do even that. In the future academic research may deliver new drugs, but while universities are now spending lavishly on the necessary equipment for drug discovery, they don't yet have all the skills or experience to make best use of it. And even academic funding agencies often prefer to spend money on the diseases of people they know.

    47. Re:Bad Feeling by Omestes · · Score: 1

      I recommend plenty of grains, and perhaps some flax (to keep the coat healthy, for the yearly shearing). Also avoid rural Scotland, or the American south.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    48. Re:Bad Feeling by Angostura · · Score: 1

      You seem to jump oddly from scale-to-scale. So on the one hand you argue that a materialist should be able to explain why "precisely why particular arrangements of protons and electrons and neutrons bring [consciousness] about. But then you complain that most drug studies involve descriptions of what the patient reports.

      In between the proton scale and the patient scale there is a wealth of experimental evidence about the effect of particular chemicals on neurons. You appear to be ignoring this aspect, for some reason.

      "To begin to act like we have this all figured out is frankly rather silly." you say, and frankly I agree. But I would submit that there is more than enough evidence to tentatively take on trust the idea that consciousness is an emergent property of the physical brain and the arrangement of cells and chemicals therein.

    49. Re:Bad Feeling by bartwol · · Score: 1

      Would you have given the grandparent a pass if he had cited the other kind of chemicals? You know...not the "physical" ones?

    50. Re:Bad Feeling by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      Nothing particularly ironic about it:

      I just meant it was ironic that I was quoting an article I got through ScienceDirect in a discussion about fake journals from Elsevier.

      When it comes to neglected tropical diseases, the patent system has little to do with it.

      And that's exactly the problem. The patent system is supposed to be a system that generates incentives to produce products that increase social welfare (in a utilitarian sense). Yet it fails to offer the right kind of incentives to encourage research into treatments for neglected diseases. Of course, if the patent system did induce research and development in that area, we'd then face the problem of high prices, but with neglected diseases we are not at that point yet.

      If the patent system has little to do with it, maybe it means we should change the patent system. Of course, that's not realistic given all the minimum requirements of TRIPS, etc., so the solution is probably to establish a parallel incentive system to work alongside with the patent system.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    51. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL! The 80's I have no problem with, but David Sanborn??? Props to ya for the Talking Heads tho' - *respect knuckles*

    52. Re:Bad Feeling by nitroamos · · Score: 1

      here's my anecdote.

      i went in for a sleep apnea test a couple years ago based on a hunch my mom had. they wired me up and put me to bed. when i woke up, they showed me all their reports about how my sleep apnea index was off the charts. they gave me a cpap machine (charged to my insurance) and off i went, and i plugged in every night for maybe a year or two.

      but eventually i stopped. why? it just seemed like it was more hassle than it was worth. it's not that i doubt what the doctors saw in the report, and nor do I doubt that sleep apnea is a serious condition that some people have... it's that i began to doubt it was as serious as they said it was for me. they do, after all, have incentive to make a big deal about it, in just the same way as the news media keeps itself in business. and people typically go along with it, partly because of the placebo effect.

      i'd never heard of "restless leg syndrome" before now, and i have no comment on the diagnosis that you received. but i do not believe that just because you can identify, name, measure, and write a prescription, that it's necessarily serious.

    53. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I have "atypical nightime oesophageal acid reflux disease with sleep impairment". I know all about having a disease that few people know about and that sounds made up. It also disrupts my sleep, severely. The outward symptoms of someone who can't sleep properly but has no idea why (because without any of the symptoms of GERD, how the hell are you supposed to know? I don't even get heartburn when eating vindaloo. But at 3 in the morning, 8 hours after I ate...) are pretty much like someone with depression and a bad temper. Ever since I started eating H2 inhibitors like candy, I finally sleep again.

      Sometimes I wish I could let someone else have my symptoms for a few nights and see how their tune changes.

    54. Re:Bad Feeling by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the good-humored reply, Scott. My dad has had the same trouble since the '50s. But I've never been able to persuade him to curb his drinking or his voracious appetite for sweets. I hope you manage to get some relief.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    55. Re:Bad Feeling by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      let's be brutally honest and say our stressful, obsessive, physically inactive society has bred a number of nervous, neurotic and mentally unbalanced people with a host of ills such as restless leg syndrome, attention deficit disorder, insomnia etc.etc. for which big pharmy is making cubic meters of cash. Doesn't change the fact the primary problem is between the left ear and the right ear of the afflicted.

    56. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you need exercise...

    57. Re:Bad Feeling by tenco · · Score: 1

      I actually find pharmacology quite interesting, especially the idea that physical chemicals can impact the nonphysical/intangible mind.

      If it can make my hands grasp a physical object, there must be a chain of interactions between this object and it. If there's a chain of interactions between it and a physical object, it can be measured. Therefore it's tangible.

    58. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have been diagnosed with that "designer disease", you dickwad.

      I believe you misspelled "insensitive clod."

    59. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't get restful sleep like "normal" people because my legs move while I am asleep.

      ... haa ha!

    60. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone with in the medical profession (and one closely involved with RLS-type issues)--as well as someone who is engaged to someone with a history of RLS--I can say that I agree that the validity of the concept of RLS is questionable.

      Just because you show some physical correlates of something doesn't mean it's something physiologically "distinctive" enough to be considered outside the range of normal, continuous variation.

      I'm not saying that some people with RLS symptoms don't have some qualitatively different state of neurological functioning consistent with a disease state. However, the criteria are all too vague.

      A major problem with current medical practice is assuming that "bio-chemical-physical" = "science."

      The original poster who called RLS questionable was absolutely right to question the validity of this "disease." Every single person who receives health care should do so.

      Let's say that I define "early head pain syndrome", and define it as headaches in the morning. I'm sure that I could locate some subset of people who would endorse symptoms of this "syndrome," and surely identify neurophysiological correlates of it (take your pick: EEG, EMG, fMRI, whatever). That wouldn't mean that it's a distinct disease syndrome, outside the range of normal variation.

      Medical science needs to be a science again, and not so influenced by those trumping up demand by fear mongering.

    61. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The pharmaceutical industry is one of the most corrupt industries in existence today...

      Lets expand upon that thought for a moment. Better yet, lets make it an ad-lib and see if there are any industries that don't fit.

      The __________ industry is one of the most corrupt industries in existence today.
       

      • Auto
      • Housing
      • Finance
      • Banking
      • Petrolium
      • Media
      • Professional Sports
      • Drug (too obvious?)

      For that matter, lets expand it to incorporate any entity in its respective field.

      The __________ is one of the most corrupt __________ in existence today.

      • Catholic Church,religious organizations
      • 2008 Olympic Council, Olympic councils
      • Dallas School Board, school boards
      • US Government, governments

      What did I miss? Are there any that don't fit?

    62. Re:Bad Feeling by LaskoVortex · · Score: 1

      Any intro to psych course includes education on what a few of the major neurochemicals do and their role in defining who "you" are.

      So will attendance at a Dead show with a few dubious "friends".

      --
      Just callin' it like I see it.
    63. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I for one appreciate your diatribe. I learned something about RLS from your posts. It is all too easy for someone else to dismiss one's problem as silly or imaginary when it has a funny name, and it is especially irksome when someone does that to support their unsubstantiated opinion. By not allowing the misinformation to go unchallenged, you help to stem its spread.

    64. Re:Bad Feeling by aussersterne · · Score: 1

      But of course the notion that your 66/22 instance is "abnormal" is a normative position based on, at best, a statistical model that says you'll be better off in some way if you sleep "like" a majority of others, and an epistemological ethos that values statistical models as "knowledge."

      That's not to say that it's an incorrect assumption for you, but merely to point out that the "nonnormal" evaluation of such a state is a socially constructed matter, not an objective matter.

      Certainly if you start calling people dickwads for challenging socially constructed assumptions and definitions, you deserve to be seen as at least a little bit ideologically unreflective.

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    65. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      >But of course the notion that your 66/22 instance is "abnormal" is a normative position based on, at best, a statistical model that says you'll be better off in some way if you sleep "like" a majority of others, and an epistemological ethos that values statistical models as "knowledge."

      That's not to say that it's an incorrect assumption for you, but merely to point out that the "nonnormal" evaluation of such a state is a socially constructed matter, not an objective matter.


      LOL...wut? We are talking about *sleep* here, Mister Time Cube. The sleep study showed that I woke up twenty-two times in one hour in the middle of the night when I was "asleep". How many times do you wake up in the middle of the night in a given sixty minute period? Once to the go the bathroom, maybe twice to roll over or find a more comfy position. Certainly not twenty-two times in one hour.

      Certainly if you start calling people dickwads for challenging socially constructed assumptions and definitions, you deserve to be seen as at least a little bit ideologically unreflective.

      I called Causality a dickwad because he labelled a legitimate medical condition a "designer disease." Go back and re-read his message and then mine.

      Thanks,
      -Scott

    66. Re:Bad Feeling by lilacsigil · · Score: 1

      While I agree with most of your comments (we don't have prescription advertising in Australia but we do have advertising direct to health professionals) Restless Legs Syndrome is a real disease, one which I have as a side-effect of thyroid disease. The recommended pharmaceutical solution, though, is considerably more harmful than having the disease for most sufferers!

    67. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry dude, but you're way off and really reaching. RLS is very uncommon and was never a real problem. Now with RLS marketing being used by pharmaceutical companies there are many people running to their local pharmacy/prescription doctors to convince them that because they're uncomfortable in bed that they have RLS "disease".

      You also conveniently skip over where he's mentioned twice now that there are probably "very few legitimate cases of RLS", which in no way suggests that YOURS is not legitimate, in your rush to take a butt-hurt offensive.

      Personally, I think you should get off the meds.

    68. Re:Bad Feeling by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      AC said:
      >Sorry dude, but you're way off and really reaching. RLS is very uncommon and was never a real problem.

      I am going to need to play the [citation needed] card. Please provide some links that backup your statement that "RLS was never really a problem". After being diagnosed, I have found no shortage of information regarding RLS, sleep disorders related to movement and PLMD on the Internet. I have also had quite a few appointments with doctors who are experts in sleep disorders. I don't get the impression that "RLS is very uncommon and was never a problem."

      I am looking forward to your reply.

    69. Re:Bad Feeling by epoxide · · Score: 1

      I'd say that the pharma industry is no more corrupt than any other regulated industry - it's just that pharma corruption is so much more asinine. Also, the reason pharma companies do marketing directly to consumers: it works. People see the ads and actually do pester their doctors about getting switched to the spiffy new medicine they saw on TV. There's also a more subtle reason: according to a marketing study I read about, the ads remind people to take their pills and then buy more.

    70. Re:Bad Feeling by giorgist · · Score: 1

      tell you what, pluck your brain and put it in a blender. That should cure your of the non physical nature of your mind.

      Alternatively read a little Steven Pinker

    71. Re:Bad Feeling by giorgist · · Score: 1

      Consciousness is a convenient illusion to persuade you to stay alive. You probably will reject this statement without considering the evidence. I enjoyed "How the mind works" by Steven Pinker, a little old. Skip the computer chapter and you won't put it down. Suffice to say all it is, is game theory. You love your child, because if you didn't ... it would not survive to love it's own ...

    72. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great. Thanks for letting everyone know that you are not a specialist in sleep disorders. So your opinion regarding medications used to treat sleep disorders holds as much weight as my opinion on how well someone speaks French (a topic I know absolutely nothing about).

      Listen, genius, you don't need to be a master chef to figure that something tastes like shit -- so quit with this line of reasoning.

    73. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>calmly explain to that person why you believe they are misinformed. You may even convince them.

      > I don't want to convince you that you are wrong. You are a nutcase and you are spreading
      > mis-information that may have a negative effect on someone else's health. I suppose you
      > are also anti-vaccination because the guvmint uses the annual flu vaccines for mind control.

      There is a great story about the spread of AIDS in Africa.

      Many nutcases kept claiming that the US government had spread AIDS through Africa under the guise of polio vaccinations. One of the doctors that had been part of the polio vaccination campaign finally had enough. He decided to debunk all of the nutcases claims.

      After a thorough analysis of the relevant data, the doctor was forced to conclude the nut was correct. There was a significant correlation between the polio vaccinations and the spread of AIDS. Too significant to be ignored. After reviewing all his notes and memories from the vaccinations, he found something.

      While they had plenty of vaccine to inoculate everyone, but they didn't have enough money to purchase needles for everyone. Since they had not heard of AIDS yet, they decided that vaccinating people was worth the risk of sharing needles. They reused the needles a bunch of times, likely contributing to the early spread of aids.

      The doctor in question eventually published a paper titled something like "How I Helped Spread AIDS in Africa".

      The moral of the story is that while nutcases conclusions are nutty, they sometimes have noticed something that others have missed, and digging down into the cause of their claims can reveal potentially important information.

    74. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to admit that "the idea that physical chemicals can impact the nonphysical/intangible mind"

      If it's true that chemicals can impact the mind then you're already assuming the mind is material. Material things can only affect other material things, thus the mind is material.

      If immaterial things could affect material things you would have to describe how that's possible, seeing as immaterial things would have no spatial or temporal properties.

    75. Re:Bad Feeling by insanecarbonbasedlif · · Score: 1

      Not everyone subscribes to the materialist worldview, and not everyone is willing to make the assumptions that are needed in order to honestly believe in it.

      Assumptions? By assumptions I'm *assuming* you mean lack of assumptions. Materialists say, "We'll believe it when we see it". Dualists say, "We don't understand it so it must be unexplainable physically". The dualist *assumes* that somethings will *never* be explained via the physical world. That seems like the height of egocentric foolishness, especially as we have seen science explain the "unexplainable" time and time again.

      --
      Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
    76. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aldus Huxleys Doors of Perception is a good read on the subject of drugs and what is real.

    77. Re:Bad Feeling by bpsh · · Score: 1

      I don't know what a "designer disease" is, or if there's a definitive list out there, but perhaps repetitive strain injuries fit the bill.

      I had a repetitive strain injury for over 10 years, to the extent that I had to give up my career in computing. (I've recently started again as an 80s-trained, pre-Windows, pre-Web dinosaur.)

      Among the many medications offered to RSI patients (for symptoms such as depression, muscle tension, sleeplessness, constant pain) was Vioxx.

      In my opinion one of the ways conversations like this go wrong is by confusing real symptoms with whether these conditions are genuinely medical. I don't mean to judge Restless Leg Syndrome either way, but if my repetitive strain injury were a purely medical condition (e.g. my carpal tunnels were unusually narrow) then learning the Alexander Technique, a behaviour-modification discipline, could not have been an effective way to get rid of it.

      In the current medical culture it seems to me that "is this really a medical problem?" is not often enough asked. And then when it is asked, it's hard for patients, by now heavily invested in a medical explanation for their difficulties, not to feel they're being labelled malingerers.

      Nick

    78. Re:Bad Feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you know the study wasn't fabricated? And how do we know you are not paid by Pharma to say that? Furthermore, even if you did have a legitimate case of the dreaded RLS, that does not mean many are not exaggerated for the sake of selling pills.

  4. More reason to ditch publishers by langelgjm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Interesting. This militates against the argument that the "imprimatur" of a publisher always adds to a journal's legitimacy, and is one more reason to ditch money-grubbing publishers for open-access journals.

    That is really a huge blow to the reputation of Elsevier... of course they publish hundreds (thousands?) of journals, so in absolute terms maybe it is not that big a deal, but still...

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by causality · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That is really a huge blow to the reputation of Elsevier... of course they publish hundreds (thousands?) of journals, so in absolute terms maybe it is not that big a deal, but still...

      I think I've heard it said this way: "It doesn't take much arsenic to poison a well."

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    2. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Only takes one mistake to have your reputation decimated.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    3. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by Councilor+Hart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, it is a big deal.

      The problem is not that you lied to me. The problem is that I can no longer trust you.

    4. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This militates against the argument that the "imprimatur" of a publisher always adds to a journal's legitimacy.

      It sure does. Especially since Elseiver has explicitly made that argument. Here's an official Elsevier position paper on open access: "By introducing an author-pays model, Open Access risks undermining public trust in the integrity and quality of scientific publications that has been established over hundreds of years. The subscription model, where the users pay ... ensures high quality, independent peer review and prevents commercial interests from influencing decisions to publish. This critical control measure would be rmeoved in a system where the author - or indeed his/her sponsoring institution - pays."

      That gives the open access movement a big boost..

    5. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by Goldsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Absolutely right. Even though Elsevier is huge and a fixture in scientific research, this is the kind of ethical breach that could lead to ruin for the company. As big as they are, the NIH is bigger and there are people there who do not appreciate these kinds of shenanigans. It is absolutely an argument for community based open-access journals. All that would have to happen is the NIH putting publication in such journals as a condition in their grants and librarians the world over would rejoice.

    6. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      "That is really a huge blow to the reputation of Elsevier... of course they publish hundreds (thousands?) of journals, so in absolute terms maybe it is not that big a deal,.."

      I would respectfully disagree. I believe LexisNexis is their American subsidiary, therefore EVERYTHING about LexisNexis is now suspect.

    7. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One mistake = 10% hit to reputation?

    8. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Elsevier publishes Bibles too, so they have never had any moral qualms with publishing books that make false promises.

    9. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. And it's a permanent state, too. Sucks to be them. Good riddance, though.

    10. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please folks, stop with the misuse of "decimate". It means to remove one portion in ten with extreme prejudice. The reason it sounds extreme is that the origin was the practice of executing one man in ten from a Roman legion if that legion broke and ran in battle.

    11. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by LordKronos · · Score: 0

      Uh...the definition ALSO mean:
      "To destroy or kill a large part of".

      Guess what...languages evolve. We have a lot of words that don't mean the same thing they did back in the era of the Roman Empire. Try to keep up.

    12. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by internic · · Score: 1

      That is really a huge blow to the reputation of Elsevier... of course they publish hundreds (thousands?) of journals, so in absolute terms maybe it is not that big a deal

      One more data point, in the not-too-distant past it came to light that one of their journals "Chaos, Solitons, and Fractals" was publishing large volumes of nonsense articles by the editor. That was a fairly big scandal.

      --
      "You call it a new way of thinking; I call it regression to ignorance!" -- Operation Ivy
    13. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by MrBippers · · Score: 1

      Forcing NIH funded research to publish in specific journals would undermine the entire established hierarchy. Big name journals, large impact factor, etc...

      The NIH public access policy currently requires any journal article resulting from funded research, regardless of the journal, to be made freely available.

    14. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      current_reputation = initial_reputation * pow(0.1, number_of_mistakes)

    15. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you looser

    16. Re:More reason to ditch publishers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean by "one mistake"? :-) A small management oopsie or heading for the dark side and getting caught?

  5. Can this be considered fraud? by msobkow · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The journals seem to be intended to mislead the reader into believing that research and reporting has been done which has not. Does that not constitute fraud? Would there not be an option to have the publisher and the pharmacorp charged with fraud?

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it's fraud, but since no corporate executive has even gone to prison for the illegal actions of their company this practice will continue. Oh they might have to pay a little fine (which they will pass right along in higher prices) but no one will ever be prosecuted. That's why the corporate entity was created back in the 1890's, to avoid responsibility.

    2. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      That's why the corporate entity was created back in the 1890's, to avoid responsibility.

      Well, and that's not entirely illegitimate. If you have a large corporation, there's no way a few individuals at the top can possibly monitor the behavior of hundreds or thousands of employees. Should a CEO go to prison because some low-level manager commits fraud? If that were the case, no-one would ever take the risk of forming and running a major business.

      Nevertheless, the corporate veil can be pierced if the crime is of sufficient magnitude. These guys do get away with a lot of crap though, and maybe that particular bar should be lowered on them a little.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by Murple+the+Purple · · Score: 1

      If you have a large corporation, there's no way a few individuals at the top can possibly monitor the behavior of hundreds or thousands of employees. Should a CEO go to prison because some low-level manager commits fraud? If that were the case, no-one would ever take the risk of forming and running a major business.

      Too big to jail? Corporation size could use some downward pressure.

    4. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If you have a large corporation, there's no way a few individuals at the top can possibly monitor the behavior of hundreds or thousands of employees. Should a CEO go to prison because some low-level manager commits fraud? If that were the case, no-one would ever take the risk of forming and running a major business.

      Too big to jail? Corporation size could use some downward pressure.

      Based on what?

      Your expertise demonstrated by your Nobel Prize in Economics?

      Or that big stinky turd you just pulled out of your ass?

    5. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Too big to jail? Corporation size could use some downward pressure.

      Depends, and what I said doesn't just apply to the likes of an IBM or a General Motors.

      Suppose you have a company of fifty people, and one of them does something illegal without the knowledge of the owner. Should the guy that built that business from the ground up, busted his ass for ten years, took out a second mortgage in order to meet payroll when times were tough ... should he be imprisoned for that one employee's misdeeds?

      I'm not arguing against accountability for upper management, but like most things there has to be a balance struck.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    6. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by PPH · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you have a large corporation, you have a set of corporate policies in force. Some of which should prohibit fraud, conflicts of interest, and other assorted bad behavior. If it can be shown that the corporation enforces these policies and takes appropriate steps to correct and/or punish employees that violate them, then the corporation should not be held liable for their misbehavior.

      On the other hand, corporations need to be held to a higher standard than individuals in the areas of regulatory compliance. I've seen cases where violations were reduced from felonies to civil violations because the company claimed that it was 'unaware' of the actions of its employees. And yet, those employees were not punished because they were 'unaware' of the applicable law. Civil penalties were assessed and corrective actions undertaken. And then they did it again. If a company can't enforce its policies, it should have its corporate charter revoked.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    7. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the employee that was actually guilty of fraud should be punished?

    8. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by Toonol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're arguing against a strawman. Nobody wants to punish the innocent owner of a company that has one employee commit fraud... but the actual guilty party SHOULD be punished. Corporations aren't humans, and should neither bear nor shield anyone from responsibility for their actions.

    9. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by stillnotelf · · Score: 1, Funny

      Too big to jail? Corporation size could use some downward pressure.

      Based on what?

      Your expertise demonstrated by your Nobel Prize in Economics?

      No, no, his comment is based on peer-reviewed research! It was published recently in the Australasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine.

    10. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Based on what?

      Your expertise demonstrated by your Nobel Prize in Economics?

      And what year did you win yours?

      And why don't you go into detail as to why you think he's wrong?

      Or are you as full of shit as you're claiming Murple is?

    11. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      Milton Freedman won a Nobel Prize in Economics, and argued that corporations should be abolished as incompatible with free-market capitalism (they're collectivist entities, in which decision-makers are neither using their own capital nor responsible for their decisions).

    12. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      If you can accept the profits generated by those thousands of employees then you should accept responsibility for them also. CEO's should go to prison if they knew of the fraud. If they allowed the company to be run in a way that they knew was vulnerable to fraud then they should be held partly responsible (like a mechanic letting you go with brakes they knew were questionable). Why should the person at the top only benefit from the system without being held accountable when things go bad?

      If that were the case, no-one would ever take the risk of forming and running a major business.

      Oh yes they would. People will take lots of risk for the right price.

    13. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by winwar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "The journals seem to be intended to mislead the reader into believing that research and reporting has been done which has not."

      But what if the research WAS done? Does the data/research meet the industry standards? As far as I can tell, it was. So there is no fraud

      How is this different from any other journal that arbitrarily decides what articles to publish?

      The whole point of medical research is to influence doctors.

    14. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Corporations aren't humans, and should neither bear nor shield anyone from responsibility for their actions.

      Sure. But they (i.e. their policies and the enforcement of these) should be subject to a remastering when shit like this happened.

    15. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      You're arguing against a strawman.

      No, I'm not, and if you read the rest of my post, you'd note that I said I wasn't arguing against accountability. But I don't see that removing the corporate shield completely is a viable solution, which is what you seem to be arguing for.

      And as it happens, that shield is neither absolute nor perfect, nor was it ever intended to be. CEOs that cross the line do get brought down.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    16. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by jhol13 · · Score: 1

      You do know why SOX was created?

      It was created so that CEOs could not claim "I knew nothing about financials".

      IMHO same should apply for "I knew nothing about SomeIllegalAct".

      If CEO "knows" nothing about some illegal behaviour going on for long time by an employee, he is either an idiot (and should not get huge salary nor golden parachute) or "criminally negligent" or good old fashioned liar.

    17. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      You do know why SOX was created?

      It was created so that CEOs could not claim "I knew nothing about financials".

      IMHO same should apply for "I knew nothing about SomeIllegalAct".

      If CEO "knows" nothing about some illegal behaviour going on for long time by an employee, he is either an idiot (and should not get huge salary nor golden parachute) or "criminally negligent" or good old fashioned liar.

      Look, I'm not really disputing you. Like I said, I believe people should be held accountable for what they do (or, for that matter, what they cover up.) My point is that this could easily devolve into a witch hunt, given the current legal climate in this country. When that happens, people who did nothing wrong get screwed.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    18. Re:Can this be considered fraud? by jhol13 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I do not know the "climate" in USA very well.

      Here (in Finland) usually the situation is completely opposite, there is a system called "good brother" which means the "if you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours".

      So too often the bad guys get off with nothing (+ the money), especially if the scam involves EU (you screw money from EU).

  6. Impact Factor by modrzej · · Score: 1

    It isn't probable many scientists would believe in things read in such journals. They have few impact factor points if any, aren't listed in Master Journal List, and aren't indexed in PubMed database. Thus, scientific community have means to prevent unfair publisher activity.

    1. Re:Impact Factor by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well some of the biggest Physics frauds were published in Nature and Science. So Impact factor, which is set by a company without peer review, is not in fact a good measure of the articles in the journal. Hell IIRC Science even had a homeopathy article in it once.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    2. Re:Impact Factor by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 1

      not sure aobut science, but nature is for profit: i think (this is my opinion) that they do this deliberately, on the theory that any publicit is good (eg the benviniste antibody dilution travesty)

    3. Re:Impact Factor by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      Its worse than that. Controversial articles, and even poorly done ones get a lot of citations discussing what a load of bunk they are. This pushes the Impact factor up.

      One guy that applied to our lab for work had a fantastic "citation index" and the bean counters wanted him on the team. However almost every paper that cited his papers where about what a load of crap he was peddling. And indeed it was crap.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
  7. How I found out about it... (with Simpsons ref) by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

    I was watching a panel discussion/documentary show called "Amazing Discoveries!". They were talking about great properties of the "Powersauce bar" ("A bushel of apples packed in every bar, plus a secret ingredient that unleashes the awesome power of apples!)" and the dangers of the "Vita-Peach Health Block".

          But seriously, I don't see why this is so surprising. Infomercials have been around forever, masquerading as talk shows, documentaries, etc. This is just a print equivalent. I certainly wouldn't expect the fact that it happens to be on paper vice glowing phosphors to make it any more plausible, and it's clearly much easier to get away with if you own the printing press. Most infomercials have to buy time and the station posts a disclaimer. This is like also owning the TV station.

            There's no reason to believe a "journal" is any more plausible or legitimate than a TV "documentary".

              Brett

    1. Re:How I found out about it... (with Simpsons ref) by mmaniaci · · Score: 2, Informative

      Scientific Journals cannot be compared to TV documentaries. I'm not familiar with many other fields, but the IEEE Spectrum and ACM publish journals that are widely used as technical resources in engineering. Journals are not primarily a form of entertainment.

    2. Re:How I found out about it... (with Simpsons ref) by Garabito · · Score: 1

      These journals are not only printed media, but peer-reviewed scientific journals. They way scientist publish their findings and theories is through articles in this kind of journals, that get screened and reviewed by specialists of the field before publication; so anything published is supposed to have scientific merit.

      Of course, nothing prevents a business to set up an allegedly scientific journal that publishes serious-looking articles that push its products or agenda, but it wouldn't have a great impact because of the lack of reputation of said journal among the scientific community

      But in this case, it was Elsevier who acepted to do that. Elsevier is a very reputable publishing company for scientific journals, so any publication under its name will carry that credibility, so Merck choose to use it as a way to push their own interests over the pharmaceutical and medical community.

      These incidents hurt Elsevier's credibility, and as other poster have said, raise questions about the current model of scientific publications. Publishers like Elsevier charge very high for their journal subscriptions, and they can do so because of it prestige, no university could do serious research without access to them; and authors keep publishing through them because they need a reputable name to back their articles.

    3. Re:How I found out about it... (with Simpsons ref) by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      There's no reason to believe a "journal" is any more plausible or legitimate than a TV "documentary".

      That's certainly true - there are hundreds of "trash" journals out there. I seem to get most of them in the mail despite frequent attempts to not subscribe. Most people just toss them into the recycle bin. The "Austalasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine" sounds like one of those types. Still, it's fraud - Elsievier should be soundly thrashed and the relevant management should commit seppuku by thousands of paper cuts.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:How I found out about it... (with Simpsons ref) by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

      These journals are not only printed media, but peer-reviewed scientific journals. They way scientist publish their findings and theories is through articles in this kind of journals, that get screened and reviewed by specialists of the field before publication; so anything published is supposed to have scientific merit.

      Of course, nothing prevents a business to set up an allegedly scientific journal that publishes serious-looking articles that push its products or agenda, but it wouldn't have a great impact because of the lack of reputation of said journal among the scientific community

      But in this case, it was Elsevier who acepted to do that. Elsevier is a very reputable publishing company for scientific journals, so any publication under its name will carry that credibility, so Merck choose to use it as a way to push their own interests over the pharmaceutical and medical community.

              Which supports *my* point as well. Even the fact that it's peer-reviewed doesn't tell you anything, unless you also examine the "peers" and find them beyond reproach. Even the guys selling colon cleansers always have a few doctors involved. Unless you somehow know the doctor is also on the payroll - and that the basic concept was literally crap - it would be quite easy to fall into the trap. Point being aside from a very few items with known value, just about every journal you might run across is as suspect. Its advertising, it's business, and it's their job to sell stuff. You have to expect it, and caveat emptor.

                  Brett

    5. Re:How I found out about it... (with Simpsons ref) by artor3 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Just a minor point, but while many journals are published by the IEEE, the Spectrum is just a magazine (not a professional journal) published by the same organization. It is primarily for entertainment, albeit of an educational and informative sort.

  8. Charge them with fraud by Khyber · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is MAJOR fraud in the medical/pharmaceutical industry. Merck and Elsevier need to be shut completely down for this bullshit.

    Or, alternatively, start killing off Merck and Elsevier CEOs, NOW. Send the message that we will not tolerate this misleading information.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:Charge them with fraud by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is MAJOR fraud in the medical/pharmaceutical industry. Merck and Elsevier need to be shut completely down for this bullshit.

      Or, alternatively, start killing off Merck and Elsevier CEOs, NOW. Send the message that we will not tolerate this misleading information.

      Well, that's probably a bit extreme, but it's certainly true that lies of this magnitude can result in people being hurt or killed. This isn't a joke.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Charge them with fraud by drinkypoo · · Score: 1, Funny

      Or, alternatively, start killing off Merck and Elsevier CEOs, NOW. Send the message that we will not tolerate this misleading information.

      Ever notice that the people who talk this kind of shit aren't the kind of people out there getting the headshots?

      If you believe so strongly that we should kill people for this stuff, go forth and do it. Otherwise, please shut your pie hole. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world eating pudding in the dark, and I like pudding but that's not the dark future I was planning for.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Charge them with fraud by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 1

      While it is incredibly dishonest, your solution is extreme. Shut down Merck? Shut down Elsevier? Both companies do a lot of good (Yes, Merck does do a lot of good). These fake journals do not appear in MEDLINE, which means that researchers do not actually use them. Sure, Merck might use them to market to doctors but as someone who works in the health care field (not as a medical doctor), not finding a journal in MEDLINE is death for the journal. Why anyone would trust a journal they don't find in MEDLINE is beyond me.

    4. Re:Charge them with fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      This is MAJOR fraud in the medical/pharmaceutical industry. Merck and Elsevier need to be shut completely down for this bullshit.

      Or, alternatively, start killing off Merck and Elsevier CEOs, NOW. Send the message that we will not tolerate this misleading information.

      Merck is on to this already. Since publishing bullshit kills people, they have a new pill in the pipeline designed to reduce bullshit publishing with almost no side effects!

    5. Re:Charge them with fraud by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      but it's certainly true that lies of this magnitude can result in people being hurt or killed.

      Which is not even relevant for those companies. They just calculate the price that it costs (risk assessment) and decide to go or not go with it.
      And apparently they already decided that it's worth it. Including the possibility of death.

      But I don't think they are any different from most big industries. whether it's oil, "food", cars, or whatever...

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    6. Re:Charge them with fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Possible a tad on the extreme side. However, I work in science textbook shop, and I guarantee that if Elsevier sales start dropping suddenly I'll be asking customers why and passing it on to Elsevier.

    7. Re:Charge them with fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The sad thing is, the majority of the people at Merck are almost certainly good, honest scientists, and likewise those who edit journals for Elsevier. And they're tainted by this crap. The solution is, get out of those companies. You don't know what douchebag, or group of douchebags, made this decision, but you're lumbered with it, and you don't deserve to be. Leave. There are greener pastures out there.

    8. Re:Charge them with fraud by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Pray tell, where can a research biochemist go to do research where such questionable issues aren't a concern? The pharma industry employs literally tens of thousands of scientists and pretty-much every pharma company has these kinds of practices (I'd say Merck is maybe even slightly better than average in some regards - they're just the company most subject to discovery right now due to Vioxx). Just about every pharma company is laying off scientists, so even if you wanted to switch companies you couldn't (and again it wouldn't be any nicer from an ethical perspective).

      Unless you're lobbying for the government to create 50k jobs at the NIH that pay pharma industry wages I'm not qutie sure what you intend for these folks to do. The government can't figure out to do with works in the auto makers - and their skills are a whole lot more generic than some guy doing studies on calcium channels or whatever.

    9. Re:Charge them with fraud by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      And it's getting worse. Many large corporations (Pepsico, for example) are installing foreign nationals as CEOs. Presumably that's because it will eliminate any vestige of concern for the citizenry that those corporations supposedly serve.

      Your sig notwithstanding, your English is excellent by the way.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  9. Happy that NONE of my articles are in Elsevier by raymansean · · Score: 1

    I had often heard to avoid Elsevier publications as a place to publish.

    --
    insert inflammatory comment here!
  10. Dr. Thomas Szasz by johnny+cashed · · Score: 1

    Dr. Thomas Szasz is one doctor who comes to mind who questions this, especially with respect to psychiatry. I'm sure there are others.

  11. Wrong by an.echte.trilingue · · Score: 3, Informative

    No. At the very least, this gives schools a bargaining chip when negotiating journal packages with Elsevier.

    Also, anything that brings the sickening relationship between doctors and pharmaceutical companies to light is a good thing. Many times, doctors will prescribe the latest (expensive) drug to a patient when a generic does the job just as well precisely because the pharmaceutical companies bombard them with this kind of semi-false information. People need to be aware of this.

    --
    weirdest thing I ever saw: scientology advertising on slashdot.
    1. Re:Wrong by mazarin5 · · Score: 1

      doctors will prescribe the latest (expensive) drug to a patient when a generic does the job just as well

      If the solution even requires a generic... I went in for bronchitis, and I came out with a prescription for a generic antibiotic, and a prescription for Prilosec. When I looked it up later, it turned out to be a medication for heartburn! I also noticed that the logo was the same as the big, purple button on the lapel of the doctor's labcoat. :/

      --
      Fnord.
    2. Re:Wrong by scottv67 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >I went in for bronchitis, and I came out with a prescription for a generic antibiotic, and a prescription for Prilosec.

      Mazarin5, if you use Google to search for bronchitis and acid reflux, you will find pages that mention acid reflux as a possible cause for bronchitis. It's possible that the doc who treated you thought that your bronchitis was caused by GERD or stomach acid making its way up into your esophagus. He wasn't trying to give you random pills just to make the drug rep happy. There is a connection between acid reflux and bronchitis. I am not an expert on this topic so I encourage you to do your own research with Google.

    3. Re:Wrong by tick-tock-atona · · Score: 1

      There is a connection between acid reflux and bronchitis. I am not an expert on this topic so I encourage you to do your own research with Google.

      Or he could, you know, just ask another doctor?

      It's scary how people would rather trust google than a medical professional.

    4. Re:Wrong by deraj123 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the doctor does this without explaining to me what he's trying and why, there's a problem. Mine's pretty forthcoming when asked questions - if yours isn't, perhaps you should find a new doctor.

    5. Re:Wrong by teflaime · · Score: 1

      >I went in for bronchitis, and I came out with a prescription for a generic antibiotic, and a prescription for Prilosec. Mazarin5, if you use Google to search for bronchitis and acid reflux, you will find pages that mention acid reflux as a possible cause for bronchitis. It's possible that the doc who treated you thought that your bronchitis was caused by GERD or stomach acid making its way up into your esophagus. He wasn't trying to give you random pills just to make the drug rep happy. There is a connection between acid reflux and bronchitis. I am not an expert on this topic so I encourage you to do your own research with Google.

      Or, maybe better, perhaps you should take an active interest in your healthcare and ASK your doctor what each prescription is for and why he is giving them to you?

    6. Re:Wrong by Jay+L · · Score: 1

      I'm not an expert either, unless living through it is expertise: I had bronchitis for six months. Six really long, chest-wall-bruising months. Kinda screwed up my voice lessons, too.

      Luckily, the guy who wrote the seminal 50-page paper on cough is only 45 minutes from me. (So he's an expert. I can't find the specific paper,but his name's Richard Irwin.)

      Among his surprising findings: About 30% of chronic cough cases result from acid reflux. It irritates the esophagus, which makes you cough, which tenses your diaphragm, which pushes up more acid, which irritates the esophagus... So the best cough medicine is often Prilosec. Even if the original cause is a cold virus, the cough-acid-cough cycle can continue after the virus is gone.

      (Another surprising finding: There's absolutely no evidence that guaifenesin helps clear the lungs. It makes your coughs productive, but it could just as easily have caused all that extra production; nobody's ever measured the actual effect on your lungs.)

      The worst part was that if Prilosec doesn't help, and neither do codeine/dextromethorphan or (my favorite) Tessalon perles: there's nothing. There's no extra-special super-prescription remedy. They got nothin'. As the doctor said to me: If I give you some pills, it could clear up in 90 days. Otherwise, it could take up to three months.

    7. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you've never seen a pharmaceutical ad on television. I don't think the physician is the most culpable link in this equation. Also, it is entirely possible to support a company and their product line using money from the patient's insurance company when the drug is correctly prescribed and one is seeking to support the development of other products needed which are in that marketer's research pipeline. Not an unreasonable call at all. Often the patient sees no difference in price (ie, copay). That's how we get new drugs all the time. And, there have been dozens of new drugs in the past decade that represent substantial enhancement in treatment protocols. Revenue supports this outcome.

    8. Re:Wrong by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > (Another surprising finding: There's absolutely no evidence that guaifenesin helps
      > clear the lungs. It makes your coughs productive, but it could just as easily have
      > caused all that extra production; nobody's ever measured the actual effect on your lungs.)

      This isn't a properly controlled and blinded study or anything, and I suppose it could be at least partly placebo effect, but, anecdotally, when I had the worst cough I've ever had (so bad that I was afraid to take a cough suppressant, because I could feel the stuff sliding down into my lungs and worried that if I ran out of energy to keep coughing it up I might die from drowning in it), I took some of that guaifenesin stuff and a few minutes later experienced a *significant* reduction in coughing, as well as a significant reduction in the feeling that stuff was sliding down into my lungs.

      So, yeah, if I have a really bad cough like that again, I'm going to go looking for that stuff.

      On the other hand, I'm not convinced phenylephrine (ostensibly a decongestant) does anything whatsoever. This caught me by surprise a couple of years back, when the local pharmacy just sort of silently switched over to it without saying anything and next time I had a cold I went and picked up some decongestant, which I just assumed was the same stuff I'd been using, but I found that it didn't work, at all. At first I figured I just had a different, harder-to-decongest sort of cold, but next time I had a cold (a few months later), same thing. Come to find out, the decongestant I'd previously been using was based on pseudoephedrine, which actually works, but if you want to buy that now you have to actually go to the pharmacy counter and ask for it. (Apparently somebody decided to use it as a starting point for production of illegal recreational drugs, and so now the powers that be want to be able to notice when somebody buys unusually large quantities of it, so they need to keep a list of names. Or something like that. So it's still over the counter in the sense of not needing a prescription, but you can't just pick it up off the shelf and go to the checkout with it.) What do you know, I bought some of the pseudoephedrine, and thirty minutes later I was breathing through my nose again. Again, this is anecdotal and not properly controlled (though I did go into it blind to the initial change), but it's enough to convince *me* that I'd rather buy the pseudoephedrine than the phenylephrine.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  12. Wikipedia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wikipedia doesn't seem so bad now, does it?

  13. Is the whole company corrupt? by pwizard2 · · Score: 1

    I was planning on possibly using Elsevier as a potential publisher for my book (They aren't my first choice, but they are in the list of publishers I'm going to send proposals to) Now, I'm not so sure. I wonder if the other divisions of the company are still reputable, since the TFA implies that this fraud was the work of only one division.

    --
    "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    1. Re:Is the whole company corrupt? by bogaboga · · Score: 1

      I don't know about corruption, but I can say that the affinity for money from Elsevier is about 9.999 on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the highest. It's way up there.

      Folks milked money from me while on a health care course to the extent that I was almost giving up. It's insane.

      One good thing for them is that they seem to be following trends in IT quite closely, so becoming irrelevant is something in the distant, distant future.

    2. Re:Is the whole company corrupt? by chappel · · Score: 1

      I'm currently working on (or should be, instead of surfing /.) a book project for Syngress, an 'impress' of Elsevier. This almost makes me feel dirty. I'm doing it more for the experience than the cash, and there isn't any 'research' involved, so I suspect this scandal won't affect me directly. Still, for any serious future projects I'll certainly look elsewhere first.

  14. Obligatory dilbert... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  15. Google by TheLink · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Google seems to think elsevier is OK too (despite google's rules).

    AFAIK Google has a rule where a website is not allowed to give Google's spiders a different page from what normal users would get.

    I often see google search results linking to elsevier (or other journal) pages, with relevant keywords and text in them, however if you click on the link you get a page that doesn't have the same info. Such search results are not useful to me - in fact they get in the way of more useful results.

    BMW got smacked down by Google for doing something similar.

    --
    1. Re:Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      I often see google search results linking to elsevier (or other journal) pages, with relevant keywords and text in them, however if you click on the link you get a page that doesn't have the same info.

      That depends on the network you're requesting those pages from. When I'm using my university's VPN, I often actually get the documents that the search result page promises, because my university has a subscription.

      Elsevier is probably doing the same for Google's IP addresses, and maybe Google even pays for it.

    2. Re:Google by rackserverdeals · · Score: 1

      Elsevier is probably doing the same for Google's IP addresses, and maybe Google even pays for it.

      That still violates Google's policies. The problem with cloaked pages is that google doesn't always catch them right away. It helps if people report stuff like that.

      --
      Dual Opteron < $600
    3. Re:Google by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      And? Did you do it? Or did you just comment here. ^^

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    4. Re:Google by m50d · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not solving the wider problem, but often you can access such sites by changing user-agent to googlebot ("Googlebot/2.1 (+http://www.googlebot.com/bot.html)").

      --
      I am trolling
    5. Re:Google by macshit · · Score: 1

      Google seems to think elsevier is OK too (despite google's rules).

      AFAIK Google has a rule where a website is not allowed to give Google's spiders a different page from what normal users would get.

      I often see google search results linking to elsevier (or other journal) pages, with relevant keywords and text in them, however if you click on the link you get a page that doesn't have the same info. Such search results are not useful to me - in fact they get in the way of more useful results.

      Even if they are breaking google's rules, that obviously doesn't imply that google somehow approves of them, merely that they've (so far) escaped detection.

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    6. Re:Google by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Well I've reported such sites and Google still keeps them.

      --
    7. Re:Google by Timmmm · · Score: 1

      This hardly ever works any more. As someone above said, it is evil and violates Google's policies but they definitely know about it and for some reason don't do anything to stop it.

    8. Re:Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      expert-exchange, I'm looking at YOU!

    9. Re:Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Elsevier is probably doing the same for Google's IP addresses...

      This is true. I suspect this is how Google Scholar crawls for journal articles. AIAA even gives Google their own special URL:

      pdf.aiaa.org/GetFileGoogle.cfm?...

      which would support the suspicion that Google has some sort of arrangement with these publishers.

      This is particularly frustrating if your university can't afford the obscene access fees these publishers charge. Now if somebody knew how to spoof a Google IP to get free journal access...

  16. Packaging a chilling effect on hot topics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No. At the very least, this gives schools a bargaining chip when negotiating journal packages with Elsevier....

    There are few institutions which can or do afford all packages. Intead, they must choose one or the other. Like with the cable channels, the publishers aren't about to put all the "good" journals in one set and all the crap "journals" and advertisements in another.

    Some journals and, thus, packages become must-have. And journals in the other packages become sidelined. And, because journals specialize, you get the subsequent marginalization of various topics and even fields of research.

    That's on top of the veto power big business has on reearch funding. Remeber the US government may apportion grants, but since much of the money is coming from private business, it gets to select only from a subset of acceptable recipients and topics. e.g. OpenBSD: secure systems for less than the price of a cruise missile...

  17. Brain drugs. by juuri · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I equate the working of drugs for the brain much like our current understanding of gravity.

    We know it works. We can reproduce it in exacting detail. We can model other experiments based upon our expectations of the way it works. But when we get down to the tiny details and questions... we have no idea exactly HOW it works.

    The modern brain chemical industry is this way. Sure we know it is hitting up the "5HT" receptors but as to why that actually causes some effects in some and differing effects in others... well... uh... yeah.

    --
    --- I do not moderate.
    1. Re:Brain drugs. by causality · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I equate the working of drugs for the brain much like our current understanding of gravity.

      That's a very interesting parallel. It also comes from the materialist perspective. What we get for it is a theory of gravitation that is irreconcilable with quantum mechanics. That alone should tell us that we are missing something fundamental and need to question all of our assumptions, all of the things that we "know to be impossible." Quantum mechanics itself tends to disregard cause-and-effect. An unstable atom has X% chance of radiating a particle within a given timeframe. There is no explanation for why it does so, or for why it did so at that particular time and not earlier or later. It's a statistical model that made a departure from the natural philosophy which gave birth to it.

      There's something else we get for it, too. Most of our recent technological advances have been engineering breakthroughs. There has been little advancement of actual understanding by comparison. In my personal (unqualified) opinion, the medical industry has its own version of this. We're getting better and better at modifying the system, at obtaining desired results by the introduction of chemicals, without increasing our understanding of what disease actually is, how it originates, and how it can be prevented. Nowhere is this more obvious than in psychiatry. My evidence for this is very simple: if we understood these things, we should have a population that is getting healthier. Instead, we have a population that increasingly depends on medications because it is becoming sicker.

      I will tell you something else I truly believe, though I strongly doubt there is any way I could prove it to you. Real enlightened understanding is able to simplify things, to show how all of the observed complexity derives from a few simple principles. By contrast, our models are increasingly complex. Personally, I suspect that the reductionist worldview is at least partially responsible for that. There is absolutely no way to prove beyond a doubt that the reductionist approach is the One Correct Way to seek truth. In spite of that, it's the only approach used by mainstream science. I think that's a mistake when we are dealing with entities, organisms, and a Universe that are greater than the sums of their parts. I am reminded of that old cliche, "when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." If you're wondering why the ease with which these things can be pointed out still doesn't really change anything, it's because the power of institutionalization and orthodoxy to stagnate ideas is seldom appreciated.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    2. Re:Brain drugs. by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      That was beautifully stated. Thanks!

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    3. Re:Brain drugs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "In spite of that, it's the only approach used by mainstream science."

      This is totally false. Scientific disciplines vary greatly in how much reductionism is relevant, and build models at a complexity level appropriate to the phenomenon being studied. Despite the Schrodinger equation describing the behavior of electrons around an atom, it is never used as a starting point in a discussion of neurology. Scientific understanding is built on layers of abstraction, and reductionism is useful for bridging between adjacent layers (and sometimes teaching you something new about the more complex layer!). But just because you know quantum electrodynamics does not mean you understand the Krebs cycle, despite QED governing the behavior of all the entities involved. Scientists understand this (or at least should understand this if they are paying any attention at all).

    4. Re:Brain drugs. by ThrowAwaySociety · · Score: 2, Funny

      Look, this is the News for Nerds site. You're looking for the News for Mystics site. Perhaps Google can help you find it.

    5. Re:Brain drugs. by m50d · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There's something else we get for it, too. Most of our recent technological advances have been engineering breakthroughs. There has been little advancement of actual understanding by comparison.

      If you're trying to contrast this against history it's simply wrong. Of course most advancement is, always has been and always will be in engineering rather than in the fundamentals - but the rate at which fundamental physics has developed has been nothing short of astonishing by historical standards.

      In my personal (unqualified) opinion, the medical industry has its own version of this. We're getting better and better at modifying the system, at obtaining desired results by the introduction of chemicals, without increasing our understanding of what disease actually is, how it originates, and how it can be prevented.

      Again, yes, the "engineering" approach of trying a known chemical and seeing what it does advances much faster than the theory - but that's not to say the fundamental work has stagnated. We genuinely do know a lot more about disease than we used to.

      Nowhere is this more obvious than in psychiatry.

      In more ways than one. While the state of fundamental understanding in psychiatry is particularly poor, we have seen a lot of genuine progress.

      My evidence for this is very simple: if we understood these things, we should have a population that is getting healthier. Instead, we have a population that increasingly depends on medications because it is becoming sicker.

      And where's your evidence for that? Life expectancy is continuing to rise (we're expecting a "fast food bump", but that's hardly the fault of medicine, and I don't believe it's happened yet), and the fact that a condition is being treated doesn't mean it didn't exist before - e.g. PTSD is often described as a modern invention, but if one looks at contemporary descriptions of WWII soldiers, one can see a lot of very similar symptoms - they simply didn't get treated. It's hard to appreciate how much better our general quality of life is than that of even 50 years ago, because we adjust to what we're used to.

      --
      I am trolling
    6. Re:Brain drugs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't stand "greater than the sums of their parts", because:

      - By definition the sum is equal to the sum of the parts
      - If it's greater, you've not valued the parts correctly
      - Or you are unable to do sums

      Science is not about "when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." it's about "I'm going to treat everything as nail because that way I can work in a very simple, standardized and objective way" and you only need a hammer to do it.

      Get of the new age left floaty boat, grow a brain, do some thinking.

    7. Re:Brain drugs. by RancidPeanutOil · · Score: 1

      Nowhere is this more obvious than in psychiatry. My evidence for this is very simple: if we understood these things, we should have a population that is getting healthier. Instead, we have a population that increasingly depends on medications because it is becoming sicker.

      Our population is getting healthier. It is not getting sicker. We are simply able to medicate more finely-differentiated degrees of "sickness," things that 50 or 100 or 1000 years ago were available to only be grossly adjusted. Alzheimer's? Aphasia? Stroke? Tourette's? - Dementia. Earlier, just plain craziness. Diabetes? Cancer? Phossy jaw? - a death sentence. Depression? Seasonal Affective Disorder? Vitamin D deficiency? That was just the sin of Sloth, consult your religious practitioner. Things like restless leg and plastic allergies and all that other industrial stuff are in transition into things we can evaluate, like gluten intolerance was 40 years ago, like SIDS or ulcers - their time will come.

      While our population is using more designer drugs, drug use!=sicker population. Our population is enjoying a higher quality of life, or at the very least, coroners put "natural causes" on death certificates less often. I would prefer my daily use of insulin and zyrtec and ADD medication and anti-depressants and anti-psychotics and anti-inflammatories, considering the alternative. I would also prefer my fellow citizens also choose that option. And if their legs are less restless at night, even if there's some placebo mechanism at work, they're stil more amenable to work with during the day. This oppossed to the lives that my great-grandparents endured.

    8. Re:Brain drugs. by bit01 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You remind me of the three stages of technology:

      1. Simple, and doesn't do the job.
      2. Complex, and does the the job
      3. Simple, and does the job.

      Not a bad description. :-)

      Personally, I suspect that the reductionist worldview is at least partially responsible for that.

      Holistic, reductionist, it's all abstraction.

      We're human, with human limitations. To understand we have to abstract and that by definition is an approximation. Some people aren't happy with current abstractions/approximations but unfortunately they haven't really suggested anything better. To me, saying "reductionist is no good" is just a fuzzy way of saying current abstractions/approximations aren't as successful as they'd like.

      Sure, many people would like better abstractions however saying "holistic" may be better is meaningless; "holistic" appears to be code for "we must consider the overall system" and as I've just said we have human limitations that mean we can't consider the overall system, we have to abstract. The only question is, which bits are important and thus should be abstracted?

      ---

      Copyrights and patents are privileges, not rights.

    9. Re:Brain drugs. by plover · · Score: 1

      There's something else we get for it, too. Most of our recent technological advances have been engineering breakthroughs. There has been little advancement of actual understanding by comparison.

      It seems the reason for that would be the fact that profit drives many current implementations of the scientific method. We all know that to solve a problem, you should formulate a hypothesis, design an experiment to prove/disprove the hypothesis, and conduct the experiment. Note that there is no step 2: ???, and no step 3: profit!, in this process.

      Now, let's say you're creating a medication. If your hypothesis is the results should be 95% positive, and you do the experiment and get 95% positive results, that's good -- your hypothesis is validated. But lets say someone else is running the tests, and their boss wants 97% positive results so they can pass an FDA requirement, and they think factor A is probably responsible, maybe they tweak it a little and it goes to 96%. Well, their boss is happier, so he says "tweak it some more" and it goes to 97%. Nobody knows why, and nobody is paid to care why, they're paid to deliver higher positive results. They're not paid to go back and learn.

      So our overall understanding doesn't necessarily get advanced when money is on the line.

      --
      John
    10. Re:Brain drugs. by giorgist · · Score: 1

      Pzzzt ... People are not really looking at the micro scale of the brain to figure it's workings.

      Most the the brains miracles have been figured out. What they are trying to figure now is how to figure the micro scale. It is sort of like, they know how to play chess, they know how to play good chess but they have not explored every single possible combination.

      You kind of need to do a little homework, you will be surprised in what they do know and you will realise that even though there is a LOT of work to go, there are no miracles left

    11. Re:Brain drugs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where are you getting the idea that we're getting unhealthier? Because we're being treated more? All that says is we have more treatments, not more diseases. Lifespans are increasing so whatever we're doing must be working.

      Scientists have been discovering laws that are more simple, not complex. Newtons laws only worked in certain circumstances, which was fine for a while but when we advanced enough we needed a way to describe the areas they did not apply to. When we found those (General relativity etc) the equations were simpler and applied in all circumstances.

    12. Re:Brain drugs. by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > I equate the working of drugs for the brain much like our current understanding of gravity.
      > We know it works. We can reproduce it in exacting detail

      Occasionally it works the way we think it should. Most of the time it doesn't quite. The equivalent with gravity would be if our best understanding was at Aristotlean level (heavier objects fall faster) with no comprehension of the relevance of surface area, distance, density, shape, or environment.

      We understand the brain just about well enough to find ways to screw it up, but we don't know nearly enough to fix it.

      As for the mind, we know approximately nothing. 99.78% of psychology is nonsense, and nobody knows how to identify the other 0.21%. (These numbers do not quite add up to 100% due to a combination of rounding errors and the fact that 78.43% of statistics are made up on the spot.)

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  18. Time for a respectability check by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    Isn't it about time the reputable scientific journals using Elsevier as a publisher started to look elsewhere?

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  19. (S/H)e who writes fake science should be shunned by maynard · · Score: 1

    Any scientist or doctor found to have knowingly written a paper making false scientific claims in a propaganda journal should lose their academic standing. Period. Ph.D? Revoked by the granting institution. M.D? Gone. Along with his or her medical license.

    That's how the scientific and medical communities ought to fix this. Because when bogus science is published in medical journals, some innocent people needlessly die.

  20. Paid liars by erroneus · · Score: 1

    Which is easier to forgive? The jealous man who violently kills another or the man who runs a company founded for the purpose of deceiving millions of people for profit?

    The deceit promoting drug makers wares often leads to the slow and painful deaths and disabilities of hundreds or thousands of people. The jealous man usually kills no more than one or two, one of which is typically himself.

    The evil of the paid liars are on par with the evil of those who use technological means to spam, steal and destroy the property and lives of thousands if not millions of people. They all know what they are doing and go through great detail to do it. They are clearly and plainly aware of the consequences to others and have demonstrated that they don't care at all. A jealous man often feels remorse for what he has done.

    The real crimes lie in the hearts of the criminals, not in their deeds alone.

  21. "restless leg syndrome" is quite real by mkcmkc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Try to find incidents of Restless Leg Syndrome (by that name or any other) prior to the advertising campaign. See for yourself how difficult that is. Then you will see that it's not some malady that has plagued mankind over the years for which we finally have a treatment.

    Having slept with someone who was tormented by this for months, I can assure you that it is quite real, whatever it is. It's possible that it was much rarer (or nonexistent) prior to 1900, but that's hardly proof that it doesn't exist now.

    Your argument was going okay until you introduced this howler...

    --
    "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
    1. Re:"restless leg syndrome" is quite real by gaspyy · · Score: 1

      OK, I admit I'm from a backward country in E.Europe.

      I have NEVER ever heard of a "restless leg syndrome" up until now. Never. I actually thought that the original poster made the term up...

      I use to bite my nails. Is that a syndrome? Maybe it's a compulsive behavior that can affect my health. Quick - gimme some pills!

    2. Re:"restless leg syndrome" is quite real by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      I have NEVER ever heard of a "restless leg syndrome" up until now. Never. I actually thought that the original poster made the term up...

      It's a condition in the USA caused by taking too many meds.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    3. Re:"restless leg syndrome" is quite real by causality · · Score: 0

      OK, I admit I'm from a backward country in E.Europe.

      I have NEVER ever heard of a "restless leg syndrome" up until now. Never. I actually thought that the original poster made the term up...

      I use to bite my nails. Is that a syndrome? Maybe it's a compulsive behavior that can affect my health. Quick - gimme some pills!

      Brevity is not usually my strong suit, so I'll give it a try: Thank you.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    4. Re:"restless leg syndrome" is quite real by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      I use to bite my nails. Is that a syndrome? Maybe it's a compulsive behavior that can affect my health.

      If you do it frequently, without really thinking about it, and get anxious when you don't bite your fingernails or bite your fingernails whenever you get anxious, then yes, it is a compulsive behavior, and there are plenty of people that have such compulsions. Whether or not it affects your health enough that you feel you should correct it is an individual decision.

    5. Re:"restless leg syndrome" is quite real by mkcmkc · · Score: 1

      One difference is that you can in principle avoid biting your nails, at least for a while. I imagine that even the most compulsive can cease for five minutes.

      If you're having a restless leg attack, then you're having it, and there's not much you can do in the short run to stop it, short of suicide.

      It's certainly possible that RLS is fallout from all of the wonderful fast food, drugs, lethargy, etc., that comes with a wealthy economy.

      --
      "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
    6. Re:"restless leg syndrome" is quite real by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      >It's a condition in the USA caused by taking too many meds.

      Frosty, I know you were going for the +5 Funny (hey, even I appreciate your sense of humor) but there are medications that make RLS worse. If a person does not get the sleep problem diagnosed correctly, other meds they are taking may intensify the problem.

    7. Re:"restless leg syndrome" is quite real by scottv67 · · Score: 1
      >I have NEVER ever heard of a "restless leg syndrome" up until now.

      Gaspyy, teh Google is full of good information on RLS:

      http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=rls&fp=0_TDBcSQxa0

      Another term I have heard used when talking about RLS is PLMD:

      http://www.emedicinehealth.com/periodic_limb_movement_disorder/article_em.htm

      "Periodic limb movement disorder (PLMD) is repetitive cramping or jerking of the legs during sleep. It is the only movement disorder that occurs only during sleep, and it is sometimes called periodic leg (or limb) movements during sleep. "Periodic" refers to the fact that the movements are repetitive and rhythmic, occurring about every 20-40 seconds. PLMD is also considered a sleep disorder, because the movements often disrupt sleep and lead to daytime sleepiness."

      Holy cow! Legs jerking at night, daytime sleepiness...that sounds exactly like my symptoms!! Oh wait, this whole "designer disease" was made up by GlaxoSmithKline just to sell more Requip (according to my good friend Causality)...

    8. Re:"restless leg syndrome" is quite real by uecal27 · · Score: 0

      I used to suffer from a condition called Restless Lung Syndrome. I would inexplicably have increased breathing rates after performing physical activities. I always thought that it was normal. But then I saw a commercial and realized that I had a debilitating problem that I couldn't possibly cope with! So I talked to my doctor and he prescribed me some drugs. Now, I can finally lead the normal life I've longed for all my life!

    9. Re:"restless leg syndrome" is quite real by linhares · · Score: 1
      Causality, my friend, you have been attacked by the worst form of slashdot mod manipulation:

      1. Find insightful post in story

      2.Find a little flaw in it that might be contestable

      3. BLUE SCREEN OF MOD INTELLIGENCE DEATH! Write up a huge violent rant against the tiny flaw, and ignore the bigger issues

      .

      4. Watch the mods respond like rats on a maze to the manipulation.

      If there are whole FAKE medical journals from billion dollar publishers like Elsevier, it is very very plausible that there are whole fake diseases.

      May the leg thing is for real, in fact, probably it is. But don't be let down by the mods trolling you out. You had a point there.

  22. I worked for them... by nerdofthunder · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I spent a few weeks working for them at one of their warehouses. In the employee manual there were dates for Christmas, and Christmas Eve. The dates were the 25 and 26 respectively. If they can't even get the dates for Christmas right at a text book publisher, I don't want to know what else they fail at.

    1. Re:I worked for them... by noidentity · · Score: 1

      In the employee manual there were dates for Christmas, and Christmas Eve. The dates were the 25 and 26 respectively. If they can't even get the dates for Christmas right at a text book publisher, I don't want to know what else they fail at.

      Obviously you haven't been introduced to the virtues of 2-based indexing.

    2. Re:I worked for them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I don't think they got the date wrong, they got the translation wrong...
      Elsevier is dutch and in the Netherlands we get 2 days off for Christmas: Christmas day (25th) and boxing day (26th). Because many other countries (I think especially catholic ones) tend to celebrate Christmas eve (24th) rather than what we call '2nd christmas day', I think they simply mistranslated it with the more common 'Christmas eve' instead of the more obscure term 'boxing day' which I believe is the correct name for the 26th.

  23. That's putting too much stock in your GP. by boombaard · · Score: 1
    If it didn't work, why would Big Pharma be spending lots of money on getting these journals printed by a "reputable" publisher, rather than Merck Printing, LLC?
    You need to keep in mind that there is a fair bit of difference between the "scientific community" and "your average GP" (which is who they are targetting with these publications.)
    Also, remember that the guy who is the head editor of Chaos, Solitons and Fractals has been printing his own stuff (which is crap) for something like 17 years now, and went unnoticed until last year. (See also this /. article which starts with:

    It is well known among scientists that the impact factor of a scientific journal is not always a good indicator of the quality of the papers in the journal. An extreme example of this was recently uncovered in mathematics. The scandal is about one El Naschie, editor in chief of the 'scientific' journal Chaos, Solitons and Fractals, published by Elsevier. This is one of the highest impact factor journals in mathematics, but the quality of the papers in it is extremely poor. The journal has also published 322 papers with El Naschie as (co-)author, five of them in the latest issue.

    So yes, there are ways to prevent this (in the end), but do you really want to let Elsevier get away with this behavior, especially considering they hide crap journals like this in "package deals" that you can only buy or reject wholesale? Or do you want to spend that 4500$ per journal on something more useful? Imagine how much money is lost world-wide to crap like this.

    1. Re:That's putting too much stock in your GP. by winwar · · Score: 1

      "You need to keep in mind that there is a fair bit of difference between the "scientific community" and "your average GP" (which is who they are targetting with these publications.)"

      If higly educated and compensated individuals (doctors) can't tell the difference between good and bad research, then what good are they?

      The problem isn't Big Pharma or the journals....

  24. If your German, reminds me of this by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Kalkofes Mattscheibe - Amira Tampon Werbung
    A skit about a Dr from the dark side of ww2 German medical experiments, trying to sell tampons in the 1950's
    Almost saying human trials in concentration camps, then correcting to "laboratory camp"
    This is how the world is going to think of peer reviewed US medical journals soon.
    Just another creepy doctor with a past trying to sell "medical communications"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwjoAlAqkhw

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  25. PLoS; crap papers by bcrowell · · Score: 1, Insightful

    A couple of observations:

    Skeptics have throwing out a variety of reasons that open-access journals like PLoS will never work. One of those reasons is that traditional print journals have a lot of prestige, just based on their centuries of momentum. Scientists won't want to publish in upstart open-access journals, according to this argument, because nobody will take their publications seriously. Well, this scandal would seem to show that you can't trust a journal just because it comes from a centuries-old publishing house.

    The other thing to understand is that the vast majority of scientific papers are crap. They're not necessarily wrong, just utterly unimportant. Although this particular scandal has to do with the obscenely corrupt drug industry as well, it's also part of a more general problem. Science is like an Easter egg hunt where there are too many kids and not enough eggs. Everybody is trying to pad their c.v. with as many papers as possible, in order to land one of those prized research jobs. Because of this, there's been a huge proliferation of small, specialized, low-quality, expensive journals, and that's been creating a lot of problems for librarians. That's the environment in which these bogus journals were able to slip in under the radar. One solution, in my opinion, is for the big research universities to practice "grad student birth control," i.e., ending the expectation that every professor will produce 20 grad students over the course of his career, each of whom will have the same academic career as their advisor. Schools should also eliminate their weaker graduate programs, e.g., if Cal State Fresno (hypothetically) has a graduate program in Italian, but it's not in the top 100 Italian programs in the U.S., maybe they should just cut it; it's not doing anyone any good for them to be handing out some tiny number of master's degrees and pretending that their faculty are doing high-powered research.

    1. Re:PLoS; crap papers by sam_nead · · Score: 1

      This is not the reason to cut grad programs. Rather it is a reason to broadly educate grad students. A decent Ph.D. in Italian who can't get/doesn't want an academic job should be able to get a job in the "real world".

    2. Re:PLoS; crap papers by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      This is not the reason to cut grad programs. Rather it is a reason to broadly educate grad students. A decent Ph.D. in Italian who can't get/doesn't want an academic job should be able to get a job in the "real world".

      I disagree with that for several reasons. First, graduate programs cost money. In a state university system, that money comes directly from the taxpayers. If the hypothetical graduate program in Italian at CSU Fresno isn't a center of excellence, then there is no reason for the taxpayers to pay for it.

      Graduate programs are supposed to have two missions: research, and educating grad students.

      In terms of research, the reason this hypothetical department isn't in the top 100 in the US is presumably that the faculty don't do much research, and what research they do publish is crap papers that fill the pages of third-rate journals. There's no reason for anyone to fund this activity.

      Now, graduate education. You could argue that there's nothing wrong with the vast surplus of grad students being produced by the present system, if it's only a surplus in relation to US universities' ability to provide faculty jobs for people who want to be their thesis advisers' "mini-mes." As you say, they can work outside of academia. One problem here is that tenured faculty get prestige and power from having lots of grad students, and in the sciences they need grad students to do the grunt work for them. That gives them, and the departments they run, a strong incentive to mislead prospective grad students about their chances of getting careers in research. It's not necessarily that they intentionally mislead them, but they may be ... overly optimistic. One thing they'll tell every crop of students is that there are a lot of older people in the field who are getting ready to retire soon, so the job market should get much better by the time they graduate. The other problem is that a PhD (as opposed to an MA) is a research degree, so it doesn't necessarily indicate any particular preparation to do anything other than academic research. It may demonstrate a certain level of problem-solving skill, ability to do original thinking, etc. --- or it may not. My mother is a manager at a company that hires a lot of people with PhDs in statistics and psychology, and she says a surprising number of them are utterly unable to think for themselves. There's also a problem because you have these armies of grad students, postdocs, and untenured faculty who are all trying to crank out the maximum possible number of publications in order to increase their chances of getting a tenured job at a research university. Almost all of them will find out by the time they're about 25 or 30 that that's not going to happen, but in the interim they've contibuted to the crapflood of academic papers, and used up a large amount of tax money.

    3. Re:PLoS; crap papers by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Skeptics have throwing out a variety of reasons that open-access journals like PLoS will never work. One of those reasons is that traditional print journals have a lot of prestige, just based on their centuries of momentum. Scientists won't want to publish in upstart open-access journals, according to this argument, because nobody will take their publications seriously. Well, this scandal would seem to show that you can't trust a journal just because it comes from a centuries-old publishing house.

      In my experience, the prestige is based on journal titles, not publisher. No one respects publications because they're carried by elsevier, they respect them because of the journal title. Not sure if nature is elsevier, but if it came out that 90% of elsevier's publications were fraud like this, researchers would still reguard Nature highly and want to publish in it.

      So no, this doesn't elevate open-access journals because it doesn't knock down the established journals.

      Science is like an Easter egg hunt where there are too many kids and not enough eggs. Everybody is trying to pad their c.v. with as many papers as possible, in order to land one of those prized research jobs. Because of this, there's been a huge proliferation of small, specialized, low-quality, expensive journals, and that's been creating a lot of problems for librarians.

      Well, I feel a little sorry for those librarians, but the other thing, the padding the CV, is one reason why employers, tenure comittees, and researchers value the higher-impact journals, and why open-access journals are going to take a while. The researchers who run the academic research system aren't yet used to thinking of open-access journals as being just as respectable as the older journals, the value system to sort out someone who has published all fluff based on journals published in will continue for at least another generation of scientists.

      Schools should also eliminate their weaker graduate programs, e.g., if Cal State Fresno (hypothetically) has a graduate program in Italian, but it's not in the top 100 Italian programs in the U.S., maybe they should just cut it; it's not doing anyone any good for them to be handing out some tiny number of master's degrees and pretending that their faculty are doing high-powered research.

      What would that solve? It might cut down on the education creep (ie a graduate degree is becoming the equivalent of a college degree a decade ago) but that's not a huge problem, and closing a program means any good researchers in the program have problems. There is actually good research coming out of graduate programs that on average are pretty mediocre.

    4. Re:PLoS; crap papers by winwar · · Score: 1

      "That's the environment in which these bogus journals were able to slip in under the radar."

      I see no indications that the journals published fake articles. Certainly biased, but that is no different than most articles. Hence the journals are not bogus.

      If there is any problem, it lies with the doctors...

  26. I'm a doctor... my take... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I am a doctor and a commenter on Slashdot for a very long time but I will not go on record because of the hit-list drug companies compile of "hostile" doctors. Don't believe me? Go Google it. It's very real and the consequences can put your practice out of business.

    Even though physicians in the US are independent of drug companies, we're all affected by their tactics in one way or another. For a doctor to come out to expose the things that happen and take a stand is no different than an insider (whistleblower). Unfortunately, there is no laws to protect doctors in the US because the tactics used by drug companies cannot be audited. Slashdot and other communities need to take this to the highest levels of their local governments and push for something to be done. This is fraud and it endangers the lives of patients.

    1. Re:I'm a doctor... my take... by dmr001 · · Score: 1
      I'm a physician who's been on Slashdot for a long time, and I have no idea what you're talking about, and I couldn't find it on Google either. Could you be more specific?

      My polite mouthing off to drug reps and on surveys promising them I'll never prescribe their new expensive brand-name me-too drug without head-to-head trials showing superiority over cheaper, older generic agents does not seem to have landed me in hot water, and I fail to see how it could.

  27. Re:(S/H)e who writes fake science should be shunne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Any scientist or doctor found to have knowingly written a paper making false scientific claims in a propaganda journal should lose their academic standing. Period. Ph.D? Revoked by the granting institution. M.D? Gone. Along with his or her medical license.

    That's how the scientific and medical communities ought to fix this. Because when bogus science is published in medical journals, some innocent people needlessly die.

    Haven't thought that through, have you?

    If the "accepted wisdom" is all that's allowed to be published, no one ever would have heard of Albert Einstein.

  28. Another one bites the dust by woboyle · · Score: 1

    I used to have a great deal of respect for Elsevier Press, and have several journals published by them. Now, it seems I cannot trust anything under their imprimatur, so they have lost one person forever as a customer! Their bad!

    --
    Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
    1. Re:Another one bites the dust by lbbros · · Score: 1

      I used to have a great deal of respect for Elsevier Press

      I didn't have much to begin with. I'm not very up-to-date on it, but Elsevier as a company used to (not sure if it still holds) have a minor part of it involved in the international arms trade. That's why I stay clear of them.

      --
      A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
  29. Re:(S/H)e who writes fake science should be shunne by maynard · · Score: 1

    There's a huge difference between publishing a legitimate paper by an unknown and an author knowingly writing falsehoods for a journal he or she knows is a sham. When academics knowingly violate standards of truth, those academics risk losing their credentials. It really does happen. Ph.Ds, M.Ds and licenses to practice are really revoked by accredited institutions and state licensing boards in certain circumstances like these.

    Make an example of this academic sophistry. Yank everyone's credentials who knowingly published false information in a false academic journal. Do the world a favor.

  30. in their defense by spectrokid · · Score: 1

    I once borrowed an air purity analyser from a pharma company. The thing could print out reports on a little "credit card receipt" printer, and had a USB port for copying the results to a PC. The USB port was filled with silicone: not validated. So somebody was typing in the results by hand every day, because that was cheaper than validating the goddamn USB transfer. We stare us blind on the money going in R&D, but that is not where the real cost lies. The true cost is in the enormous amount of paperwork required before you can produce your first pill. And part of that cost comes from the refusal of governments to standardise requirements and cut back on the red tape. Changing a valve in a factory has to be reported to 3 different authorities. The exact same type of valve is no longer available? Poor you, that number just tendoubled. If we want to make the pharma companies play nice, we could start by letting the FDA and the EDA (european) cooperate, and say that if something is good enough for the US, it is good enough for Europe, and the other way around. After all, if the pharma companies were such a bad boys, their shares would give 100% dividend each year.

    --

    10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then

    1. Re:in their defense by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      Yes, R&D is not the only major cost involved with new drugs. Regulatory hurdles are enormous as well. However, PhRMA's own figures emphasize how expensive it is to do the research and development, along with how much research fails, etc.

      Even if you got rid of regulatory requirements completely, it would not reduce the price of new medicines to the point where it would be financially feasible for drug companies to focus on neglected diseases. This doesn't mean that they are evil - there is just no motivation for them to do research on drugs that no one will be able to buy.

      So what is needed is an alternative incentive system - a prize fund, something like the Health Impact Fund, or the Medical Innovation Prize Fund Act - something that offers companies the necessary incentives to focus on stuff like TB, malaria, trypanosomiasis, leishmaniasis, Chagas disease, etc.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    2. Re:in their defense by schon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      R&D is not the only major cost involved with new drugs. Regulatory hurdles are enormous as well.

      Yes, but not as enormous as lobbyists and kickbacks to politicians or marketing.

    3. Re:in their defense by Mutatis+Mutandis · · Score: 1

      The thing could print out reports on a little "credit card receipt" printer, and had a USB port for copying the results to a PC. The USB port was filled with silicone: not validated.

      VERY probably it was not the regulatory agency that actually enforced that. The FDA may not be particularly efficient, and they know it, but these days even the FDA prefers that you file a set of DVDs instead of a truckload of paper.

      You have to keep an unalterable record of the measurements, but regulations don't say exactly what that means and how you have to do it. You might have to make a print, but typing over the numbers does not make the data any more unalterable than using an USB stick. Actually, to exclude typing errors, it is probable that they had to type them in twice, and then compare the numbers!

      A silicone-filled USB port more likely speaks of a bloody-minded compliance team and/or an IT management with bovine excrement between their ears. Those are (massive understatement warning!) not unheard of in pharma, and are largely self-inflicted damage.

      If we want to make the pharma companies play nice, we could start by letting the FDA and the EDA (european) cooperate, and say that if something is good enough for the US, it is good enough for Europe, and the other way around.

      The European organization is EMEA. It would definitely help, but actually the situation between EMEA and FDA is not that bad: You have to file twice, but at least they will mostly accept the same data. Worse offenders by far are the Japanese agencies, who regularly ask pharma companies to start trials all over again, as if the Japanese people were a different species.

    4. Re:in their defense by Chosen+Reject · · Score: 1

      as if the Japanese people were a different species.

      I know it's not all that nice to bring up differences in races, but those differences exist. For example, my wife (Vietnamese) discovered that Asians are more likely to be diagnosed with gestational diabetes but after more research found that part of the problem isn't that Asians get it more often, it's that doctors diagnose them with gestational diabetes more often than they ought because their bodies handle the tests differently.

      --
      Stop Global Warming!
      Just say no to irreversible processes!
  31. Elsewhere Science by gwjgwj · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I used to call them "Elsewhere Science". Has it turned out to be a correct description?

  32. me, for example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've had restless legs ever since puberty. I also figured out that a banana every other day can mitigate it during warmer weather.

    Oh, and it runs in my family, from both sides. My parents have both had RLS since before I was born, and long before there was ever a clinical diagnosis for it.

    Take your ignorant comments and shove them up your ass.

  33. Not fair for scientists. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know if everyone forgets that elsevier is the biggest publisher of the world with some of the journals with highest impact factors.

    This isn't fair for the scientific community that spends a lot of time and is not paid for their work, and they, also, pay for access to publications.

  34. explain how hypnosis cures genetic disorders. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.psyc1.com/14_curing_the_incurable.html

    The surgeon was so impressed with the hypnotic treatment he arranged for himself and Mason to give a talk about the case at the highly respected Royal Society.

    Mason later pointed out that had he realised exactly what he had been dealing with, a congenital skin disease, he would never have tried hypnosis, because it seems so unlikely that the mind could cure a genetic physical problem for which medicine had no solution. In a later interview he said it was as likely that hypnosis could do anything for this condition as that it could cure a club foot.

  35. Re:(S/H)e who writes fake science should be shunne by shentino · · Score: 1

    And guys like Kevin Trudeau wouldn't even have a leg to stand on.

    Personally, he LOOKS shady, but then again so did Galileo when he dared to say the Earth orbits the sun.

    Given how much Big Pharma hates the guy, I wouldn't be surprised if KT was actually right. Why else would a bunch of evil companies hate him so much?

  36. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The Atrophy Of Objectivity

    If I were to rate the corruptive tactics performed by big pharmaceutical companies during my intimate experience with them , the frequent and intentional strategy of implementing fabricated and unreliable results of clinical trials performed by others possibly tops the list.

    A list of corruptive tactics by the pharmaceutical industry that sponsors such trials. By this atrophy of the scientific method absent of authenticity that has been known to occur, harm and damage is possibly done to the health of the public.

    Most would agree that the science of research should be sound and as aseptic as possible- completely free of deliberate and reckless interference.

    However, it appears, money and increased profits can be a catalyst for disregard for human health with the clinical trial process that is largely unregulated.

    This is particularly a factor on post-marketing studies of various pharmaceutical companies, as some pharmaceutical corporations seem to be deliberately conducting nothing less than seeding trials- with about a 50 percent tax credit for these trial sponsors.

    Trials that are in fact pointless and void of scientific benefit.

    Decades ago, clinical trials were conducted at academic settings that focused on the acquisition of knowledge and the completely objective discoveries of drugs and devices to benefit mankind.

    Then, in 1980, the Bayh-Dole Act, Public Law 96-517,was created, which allowed for such places with their researchers to profit off of their discoveries that were performed for pharmaceutical companies and others in the past.

    Furthermore, such academic institutions were coerced to license patented inventions to those pharmaceutical companies that will then commercialize these discoveries paid for in large part by the taxpayers who funded this research to a degree.

    This resulted in the creation of for-profit research trial sites without any academic affiliation that are called Contract Research Organizations.

    CROS utilize primarily community patient care clinics whose staff are absent of any research training compared with the former researchers that existed decades ago. They are regulated, so they say, by institutional review boards, or IRBs. Both are for profit and essentially cater to the sponsor of the clinical trial in which all are involved with manipulating.

    Because of this structure, the clinical trial investigators of these pharmaceutical sponsored trials are likely novice compared with academic researchers.

    This, of course, happens with intent by the sponsor who can and does control all aspects of the clinical trial protocol at the site locations of a clinical trial that the pharmaceutical company structures and even gives the trial the title they want for their marketing purposes.

    These quite numerous CROS are in fact for- profit, with some CROs making billions of dollars a year, and this market continues to grow.

    The trials conducted at such places again are sponsored by pharmaceutical companies that control and manipulate all aspects of the trial being conducted involving their particular drug chosen to be studied.

    Etiology for their deception regarding this manipulation is because the pharmaceutical company that sponsors such a trial is basically creating a marketing tool for this drug of theirs to be studied in this manner.

    This coercion is done by various methods of deception in subtle and tacit methods.

    As a result, research in this protocol of the sponsor ensures favorable results of the sponsorâ(TM)s medication that is involved in the clinical trial they clearly own.

    These activities are again believed to be absent of true or applied regulation to any degree, and therefore have the autonomy to create whatever they want to benefit the pharmaceutical sponsor.

    There likely is a collusive relationship between the sites, the CRO, and the sponsor, as this whole system is planned beforehand by the pharmaceutical sponsor of their clinical t

  37. Why publish in a journal? by rlseaman · · Score: 1

    Who needs a journal at all, when you have http://lulu.com/?

    If the price point is right, community peer review can function just as well after publication. It is certainly preferable to having biased or imaginary reviewers.

  38. there will be blood by epine · · Score: 1

    Banks are in the business of selling trust. This doesn't stop them from raping the golden egg as often as they can get away with. Then there is an orgy of denial and offshore transactions while an outside party intervenes to "restore trust". Their words, not mine.

    Elsevier is in the business of selling unimpeachability, aka, no scientist ever got fired for citing a reputable, peer reviewed journal.

    Peer review has an especially strong appeal to the CYA crowd. The information in a peer reviewed journal is not necessarily all that great, but you confidently cite the journal without fear for your reputation.

    The list of biases in peer reviewed journals would require a journal all to itself. They will tell you that method A (in which they have a financial stake) outperforms method B at half the cost, but they won't tell you that they accidentally discovered method C which will cure you almost for free.

    Peer reviewed writing is sometimes so opaque you hardly dare to draw a specific conclusion. Yet you can't overtly find an error, which is mostly the point.

    An all-pervading contempt for unthinking appeal to authority was among my first sentient experiences as a child. My hostility toward climbing up the food chain of rational authority to discover infinity squared as the basis step nearly melted my circuits. God the omnipotent, god the omnipresent, god the mysterious, god the unaccountable.

    I gained my childhood sentience during the Von Daniken era and its peculiar aftermath.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_power
    http://www.legendsofhockey.net/html/spot_oneononep198902.htm

    Much has been made about the 'Pyramid Power' that Red Kelly used to help motivate his team. The Leafs were under terrific pressure to beat the Flyers. ... Kelly, whose sons had visited Egypt and spoke passionately about the supernatural powers of the pyramid, gave their father an idea. He placed pyramids under the Leaf bench and in the dressing room. "Red put a pyramid in the dressing room. I put my sticks underneath it hoping it might help." It seemed to help, but so did the assistance of something else - "I have a tie I wear when it's a crucial game," admitted Sittler. "I wore it one night when I got three goals. I had it on the time I had the ten points against Boston. I felt this game was so crucial, I went to the cleaners to pick up the tie specially."

    Hey, you just don't know.

    I was in a Sunday school class, a day in my life I'll never forget, and the Sunday school teacher taught the assorted passel of rug rats about the various magic properties of pyramids, such as the one employed by the hysterically desperate Leafs (check out the team's success rate in the subsequent four decades).

    I wasn't sure if I should blame the church, some mind-numbing side effect of the adult condition (which seemed to also effect my elementary school teachers), the frowzy muffin and Kool-Aid Sunday school cult, small town inbreeding, the stultifying effects of the long dark Canadian winter, the near-to-toxic levels of new car smell in our Chevy Bel Air, the sulphur stockpile a kilometre down the tracks large enough to dike Holland, or the town's water supply. God, at least, was off the hook, having in my mind no influence on anything.

    It wasn't long before the Kook-Aid theory made the leap.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

    Here is a recent video that cracks me up about the care and feeding of strange belief systems in children and young adults. I really have to get the rest of it.
    http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/julia_sweeney_on_let

  39. I worked at Excerpta Medica by hughk · · Score: 1

    Yep, many, many years ago, I worked at Excerpta Medica (when they were on the Herrengracht) who were essentially a medical publisher, primarily of some specialist abstracting journals in medecine and closely related subjects. Occasionally they also produced specialist books such as Marler's Pharmaceutical and Chemical Synonyms, a quick lookup of trade and proper names for drugs and pharmaceutically active chemicals. They are part of Elsevier group who were reputed to be getting up to some very questionable activities, but Excerpta Medica was run at a loss.

    In those days, Excerpta Medica had the Dutch great and good acting as editors and it was considered a valuable service by the Netherlands Academy of Sciences (which put Elsevier in a slightly more positive light with the authorities).

    After I left, it was incorporated more into the main part of Elsevier and it may be then that it started to be seen as a profit centre in its own right. It certainly always had close links to the drug companies and occassionally printed some stuff for them - but never vanity publishing research journals.

    --
    See my journal, I write things there
  40. Poisoning The Well by DynaSoar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Everyone who has conducted legitimate science, or expanded their medical knowledge, based on reading and/or referencing the fake journals, has been disserviced. The false information has been passed along and may continue since not all readers/users could ever be located. Science and medicine have been poisoned by this, and the damage can multiply. The publisher should print a final edition of each, containing only one article, saying that all previous work printed there is suspect at best. The problem could be somewhat mitigated if the editors of every other journal reviewed the articles they've printed to see if they contain references to those journals, and request the author(s) examine them for possible revision removing same. When the authors are no longer reachable the editors should do it.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
  41. another view on elsivier by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 1

    Elsivier is a very large company; they have , over the last 20 years, bought a lot of speciality publishers (academic press) and they really dominate the field of technical/med/science publishin. It is possible the open source models will dethrone them, but this is happening much more slowly in the technical publishing field then in the newspaper field - as another poster noted, scientists need publications on their CVs, and elsivier provides that service.
    Elsivier, as a large company, has the resource to weather a scandal; I have observed, that at least in the US, when a compny is caught, and acuatlly has to admit to having done something bad, what they do is advertise on npr or public radio (eg, archer daniels midland got caught, i forget for what, and spent money on the mcneill lehrer snooze hour; citigroup is spending money on npr)
    people will forget how bad elsivier is

  42. It is fraud by bit01 · · Score: 1

    So there is no fraud.

    Nonsense. Elsevier and the drug companies used the format of the publication to claim that the work was peer reviewed by expert, objective third parties. It wasn't. That's fraud.

    People should go to jail for this. They have endangered peoples' lives. I'm sick of lowlifes claiming that a language lie is okay but somehow a non-language lie isn't.

    They used the format of the publication specifically to fool doctors. If it made no difference then they wouldn't have done it. Repeatedly.

    ---

    Astroturfing "marketers" are liars, fraudulently misrepresenting company propaganda as objective third party opinion. Anonymous commercial speech should be illegal.

    1. Re:It is fraud by bit01 · · Score: 1

      Correction: ... is not okay ...

  43. As somebody... by drolli · · Score: 3, Interesting

    who has published something in an Elsevier Journal (they publish a lot of conference series), i am personnaly disappointed. I wonder if it is possible to retract that article and republish it somewhere else.

  44. well now, you don't want *change*? by toby · · Score: 1

    Extreme problems may call for extreme solutions. The problem here is that it's not even *possible* to shut them down; they're more powerful than your government. The other lobby of comparable power is, of course, the military-industrial complex... That annual $650 billion isn't being retargeted any time soon.

    --
    you had me at #!
  45. Doctors pass med school but they're so stupid! by chckn.grg · · Score: 1

    The linked Guardian story notes: "doctors skim, they take shortcuts, they rely on summaries, or worse." Um, doctors are familiar with the different levels of rigor in the peer review process at the important journals in their field. Here's a common shortcut: ignore journals that you've never heard of.

  46. The IEEE doesn't look bad after all.. by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 1

    After some IEEE computer society conferences has found accepting software generated papers.

  47. Things to read: by aussersterne · · Score: 1

    Regarding the nature of disease and the trend toward unhealth: Michel Foucault.

    Regarding the reductionist worldview and its alternatives in science: Jentsch ("The Self Organizing Universe") and people like Luhmann studying dissipative systems, social systems, entropy dynamics, etc.

    There are new, powerful paradigms that illuminate and unify natural sciences, social sciences, humanities, language, networks, etc. under central abstractions that have been afoot for two decades and that are powerful analytical tools, but it will take another half century before they leave the realm of "radical" and become the "norm.'

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  48. Re:(S/H)e who writes fake science should be shunne by narcc · · Score: 1

    Kevin Trudeau is a well-known fraud. I'm continually amazed that he manages to stay out of prison.

    I don't know the "Big Pharma" hates KT, though he certainly wants you to believe that "they" do. After all, if "Big Pharma" was involved in some conspiracy to suppress his nonsense medicine it would lend his books some credibility.

  49. This isn't really news by Fear+the+Clam · · Score: 1

    As a young professor, I prepared for my first interview by reading the last three published articles of everyone who was going to interview me. I noticed that one guy seemed to get published very frequently in a journal that I had never heard of, articles that should never have passed peer review, so I looked into it. Not only was he on the editorial board, but everyone else who was on the editorial board also had published bad articles frequently. And a little more investigation revealed that all of hem were associate professors.

    It was then that I realized that this was a vanity journal, probably dreamed up by these folks over a few beers at a conference. Each of them had written enough to publish about one article a year, which, when combined with an annual publication in a legitimate journal, would probably be enough to get each of them promotion and tenure at their respective research universities.

  50. Restless leg != "Designer" disease by sirwired · · Score: 1

    Have you ever known anyone with "Restless Leg?" It is real. It sucks. It existed (and I have known people with it) long before a drug company thought of a catchy name for it to market a drug to treat it. A close relative called it her "jumpy leg" problem. Twenty years ago. it caused many problems with getting a full night's sleep.

    Why do many people pick on Restless Leg Syndrome as some kind of fake disease made up by drug companies to sell us shit? For folks that have it, it most certainly isn't fake or "designer."

    SirWired

  51. Re:(S/H)e who writes fake science should be shunne by shentino · · Score: 1

    My opinion is that KT is a former bad apple that has turned around much like a blackhat getting busted and joining the good guys.

    I also note that he doesn't attempt to hide his record.

    The conspiracy is so deep and hidden that many people don't know about it.

    As far as big pharma hating KT, I have received verification independent of his writings.

  52. Pharmacology is not Pharmaceuticals by Sattwic · · Score: 1

    Please don't taint Pharmacology with the ignominy of Pharmaceutical dishonesty. THey are different domains!

  53. What about exercise, or digestive issues? by zooblethorpe · · Score: 1

    On a serious note, I have tried changing my diet to see if that has an effect on my legs. I have gone completely off caffeine for a couple of weeks. No change. I drink very little alcohol so there isn't much for me to cut out. I have never used tobacco. There are other dietary changes that RLS suffers can make like cutting back on high-carb foods at night. I have also tried supplements like magnesium. None of the dietary changes have helped me but that doesn't mean other people should not try them.

    Interesting. I occasionally have RLS symptoms, but over the years I've narrowed it down to a few clear causes:

    1. Sugar before bed (sometimes even just high carbs).
    2. Gas. Sounds silly, but getting all gassy also makes my legs jumpy.
    3. Any downshift in exercise. For instance, getting less exercise than usual when the weather turns crappy in the winter.

    I don't suppose items 2 or 3 might have any bearing on your own situation?

    That said, YMWV (your mileage *will* vary), as everyone's system is different -- something modern Western medicine (or at least the medical mass media) is particularly bad at publicly recognizing.

    Good luck,

    --
    "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
    "A four-foot prune."
  54. This happens all the time with trade pubs by cscrutinizer · · Score: 1

    I used to work for a subsidiary of Elsevier, working on some of their trade magazines and newsletters. Advertising and editorial are deeply intertwined.

    For example, if an ad was botched (typo, image messed up) the response was we would provide editorial as a make good.

    You can even work out editorial deals with some magazines based on the ad dollars spent.

  55. Fake Journal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think this should cast doubt on medical research in general. I am a sociologist who has researched the stigma of obesity for years and I am convinced moderate "overweight" is one of the most over hyped risk there is. Most of the studies are epidemiological, and they do not account for social class (the poor are fatter so health risks of poverty fall under obesity), risky weight loss practices, or health care discrimination. Why are the studies so poorly done? It is hugely profitable. And almost all obesity research is funded by either diet or drug interests if you follow the money trail far enough. If my soc 101 students designed a study the way pharma does obesity studies they would be lucky to get a D.

    I also have a friend who ghost writes for Pharma and it is clear that the "evidence" in evidence based medicine is manufactured. They know the results of the study before it ever comes out. Beyond disgraceful!!!