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The "Dangers" of Free

With today's Free Summit broaching the subject of the "dangers" of free, TechDirt has an interesting perusal of why free often can't work without a good business model and why it often gets such a bad reputation. "I tend to wonder if this is really a case of free gone wrong or free done wrong. First, I'm always a bit skeptical of 'free' business models that rely on a 'free' scarcity (such as physical newspapers). While it can work in some cases, it's much more difficult. You're not leveraging an infinite good -- you're putting yourself in a big hole that you have to be able to climb out of. Second, in some ways the model that was set up was a static one where everyone focused on the 'free' part, and no one looked at leapfrogging the others by providing additional value where money could be made. The trick with free is you need to leverage the free part to increase the value of something that is scarce and that you control, which is not easily copied. [...] Still, it's an important point that bears repeating. Free, by itself, is meaningless. Free, with a bad business model, isn't helpful either. The real trick is figuring out how to properly combine free with a good business model, and then you can succeed."

25 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. Fair beats Free by alain94040 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The problem with free (gratis) is that it doesn't pay the bills for the developer. I'm not talking about being greedy, but accessories like kids, spouse and house come in handy in winter :-)

    That's why I have been giving more and more thought to a Fair business model, which would combine the best of two worlds: libre, but not gratis.

    The distributed revenue sharing part we already solved with FairSoftware.

    It would work like this: Corporations and end-user would have to pay for the service or software. But it wouldn't quite be commercial. The proceeds would be shared among the development team. But you could still retain the rights to see the source and modify or tweak it for your environment. Your only constraint is that if you redistribute, you must pay the licensing fee to the original team.

    All it takes is to put more libre in the Software Bill of Rights. Volunteers?

    Call it sustainable development if you will.

    1. Re:Fair beats Free by tritonman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is more than a software issue though, when it gets to services such as newspapers, this is where more problems come into play. Lots of people losing jobs at newspapers and whole businesses going under because of the flux of online news sites, many of which just repost stories written by newspapers and sometimes have conflicting information. What can you do about this though? Nobody wants the government to regulate all of this, but what can be done without it?

    2. Re:Fair beats Free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...accessories like kids, spouse and house come in handy in winter :-)

      Name three things you really shouldn't burn just to keep warm. Sicko.

    3. Re:Fair beats Free by nine-times · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your only constraint is that if you redistribute, you must pay the licensing fee to the original team.

      I guess that's part of the problem right there: what constitutes the "original team". I assume the project can't be forked, or else you'd have to continue to pay the original team? And how much payment is warranted in that case? As you phase out the original code with your own, can you pay less? What If I just want to grab some small part of code for a totally different project, do I have to negotiate separate licenses for each piece, or do I have to pay a blanket fee as though I'm going to distribute the entire project?

      Maybe "FairSoftware" has all the solutions to these questions, but it seems like these are lots of potentially complicated issues. I would guess that, the more complicated the licensing issues, the less readily people will be to contribute.

    4. Re:Fair beats Free by jmcvetta · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem with free (gratis) is that it doesn't pay the bills for the developer.

      I manage to pay my bills -- which in Boston are not inconsiderable -- by writing Free Software.

    5. Re:Fair beats Free by q2k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem (with newspapers specifically) is that newspapers are not in the news business. They are in the advertising business. News was an excuse to sell eyeballs to advertisers. There are more efficient ways today to match up buyers and sellers, so newspapers are suffering.

    6. Re:Fair beats Free by mattwarden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nothing should be done about it. It's a dead business model. It's called economic advancement, and it raises the standard of living of everyone in the long run. Yes, in the short run people lose their jobs and have to retool. But currently they are in a position where they create things of little value, and they should be moved into something that creates more value.

    7. Re:Fair beats Free by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem with free (gratis) is that it doesn't pay the bills for the developer. I'm not talking about being greedy, but accessories like kids, spouse and house come in handy in winter :-)

      News to me. My boss lets me release my work projects as Free Software because they're not related to our business (i.e., we need their functionality but only as a means to an end) and we're not set up to handle software sales or support. If we're not going to make money off it, and someone else could use it, then why not? We've gotten bug reports and feature requests that made it work better, so we're actually better off for having given it away.

      I think you'll find that the vast majority of FOSS comes from similar situations.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    8. Re:Fair beats Free by randallman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This sounds similar to what I want to do. I wrote about it a few months ago here.

      1. free to view
      2. free to modify
      3. free to redistribute AFTER some time period

      There's some more to it (see link), but the idea is to have the effect of a reasonable copyright period. Say 7 years. I'm working on some software now that I want to release under this license within 6 months. I would be very interested in discussing this further.

    9. Re:Fair beats Free by maxume · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I suspect you've got it backwards -- the wife will likely render far more oil and the kids should be quite a bit more tender.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    10. Re:Fair beats Free by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If it didn't pay the bills, people wouldn't actually be doing it so much. My experience has been that free, gratis, and open source software has considerably more staying power and commercial support than most commercial software.

      I have noticed that most "free, gratis, and open source software" is crap, is written by students or people in their spare time, and once the writer (because most of it certainly isn't engineered) has to actually make a living, the software stagnates.

      If you don't believe me, head over to source forge or fresh meat and see for yourself.

      considerably more staying power

      Yeah, right. There is a difference between staying power and "hanging around like an ugly lamp no one has bothered to get rid of"

      and commercial support than most commercial software

      Apparently, you don't understand the words you are using.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    11. Re:Fair beats Free by digitig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have noticed that most "free, gratis, and open source software" is crap

      So is most non-free, non-gratis and closed source software. You just don't notice it so much, because you tend to do more research to find the good stuff before handing over your hard-earned, whereas just a click to try something out seems so easy and tempting.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    12. Re:Fair beats Free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      And who pays those AP/Reuters reporters?

      Hamas?

    13. Re:Fair beats Free by suggsjc · · Score: 5, Funny

      Only on /. could this comment be moderated "Insightful" which as disturbing as it is, I guess is true...

      --
      When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
    14. Re:Fair beats Free by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then you're not developing free (gratis) software. You are developing paid-for software that has one paying customer (your boss) who decided others can also have it (gratis).

      That's a meaninglessly stupid distinction. All work is paid for in some way, whether it be by selling it or having it sponsored by an employer or even done for free on a PC donated by a charity. At some level, someone is investing the resources (i.e. paying) for the work to get done.

      I can't name a single piece of gratis software by your standard. Linux sure isn't, and neither is any major program I run on it.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    15. Re:Fair beats Free by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      there's also an awful lot of good free software too

      No, there isn't. There is a minuscule amount of good free software. Especially when compared to the total amount of free software. The good/bad software ratio is heavily in favor of commercial software.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    16. Re:Fair beats Free by David+Gerard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That may be a purpose, but it's not what the business was.

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    17. Re:Fair beats Free by Jonner · · Score: 4, Funny

      You've enlightened me, sir! Up to now I couldn't understand why proprietary software like Windows and Internet Explorer have experienced so many fewer security vulnerabilities than Free ones like OpenBSD and Firefox. The customers speak and Microsoft listens!

    18. Re:Fair beats Free by Jonner · · Score: 3, Informative

      The term "commercial" could mean several things when applied to Free or Open Source software, such as "used for operating a business" or "used in supporting clients." However, the way it's usually used is incorrect and misleading. Many people use "commercial" to mean "proprietary," which is the opposite of Free or Open Source. However, since many people and companies use Free or Open Source software in a commercial context, using "commercial" to mean "proprietary" just muddies the water.

  2. You're making the classic blunder by wiredog · · Score: 3, Funny

    No, not a land war in Asia. From here:
      The Open Source and CopyLeft people are acting as if common sense prevails in US copyright law, and they are, I am told, dead wrong.

  3. Obvious? by mooingyak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    free often can't work without a good business model

    Last I checked proprietary suffers from the exact same problem.

    --
    William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
  4. WTF? by Locke2005 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    No business can succeed without a viable business model, regardless of whether or not it is based on delivering a "free" product. As far as free Danish newspapers, why would anybody pay money to print and deliver information that 99% of your customers could access for free over the internet, with a much lower marginal cost per customer? The Oregonian used to throw free newspapers in my driveway every tuesday and thursday; I had to tell them 3 times to stop because I consider it to be Criminal Trespass and Offensive Littering, both of which are unlawful in Oregon. It is not just a bad business model -- it is one which is actively offensive to potential customers which would rather save trees and know that most of these free newspapers go straight into the trash without even being read.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  5. No, no, no... Did I mention "No"? by pla · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Free, by itself, is meaningless. Free, with a bad business model, isn't helpful either. The real trick is figuring out how to properly combine free with a good business model, and then you can succeed.

    No. The author of TFA fails to grasp one major point - Sometimes no "trick" exists, period.

    I get so sick of hearing business oriented people bitching about how "free" does or doesn't work, or how to make "free" work for them. They don't need to learn the tricks to making "free" work, they just need to learn that "free" means free, and none of us give the least bit of damn if they can make a profit or not.

    I use (and create, though can't claim credit for any well-known projects) Free-with-a-capital-"F" software because I believe in it. I use free (lower-case) software because in my experience, it works just as well as non-free software, without all the artificial restrictions imposed to convince me to pay for "value added" BS ("Oh, you can't use critical-widget-X unless you buy the All-Things-X add on pack!"). I read free news because I don't care to pay for the opinionated rantings of various journalists (hint - Your job description involves reporting, not "change", quit pretending you can or should make a difference); when a tenth of the human population can reach the whole world with coverage of local events, reporters have very little role left to play. I even eat free fruits and berries while out hiking, because they taste a hell of a lot better than giant-but-tasteless garbage the industrial-ag market has tried to pass off as "food".

    Put simply, I, and most people, like "free" precisely because of its standard definition - It doesn't cost us anything! As soon as you try to twist that, you haven't added a "trick", you've pissed us off.

    So the "trick" to free? Don't call your product that unless you expect nothing in return. If you come crying with your hand out after-the-fact, don't worry, I won't laugh with you, I'll laugh at you.

    1. Re:No, no, no... Did I mention "No"? by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, he does grasp one essential point: the bills have to be paid. Whatever you're producing, there's costs that you've got to have the money to cover. Utility bills, payroll, taxes, cost of materials, it all takes money and you need to come up with that money from somewhere. Either you're funding the whole thing out of your savings, or you need to find a way to earn revenue from the project. And if you intend to give away your product for free, then you'd better know what other source you're going to get revenue from or you'll be finding your bank account emptied at an alarming rate and when it hits zero the bank won't let you write any more checks no matter how many you've still got in your checkbook.

      Yes, we as consumers of the free product don't care about any of that. But the guy producing the product had better care, because the bills still need to be paid.

  6. Re:WTF is going on? by mea37 · · Score: 4, Funny

    If only there were a way for the community to identify comments that don't contribute to the conversation and mark them as such. Then we could give users a mechanism by which to filter out comments marked in this way...