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Eidos Announces Thief 4
An anonymous reader tips news that Eidos Montreal has confirmed recent speculation by announcing the development of a new Thief game. They've set up a website, but the project is still in its early stages, and details are scarce. In an interview with IncGamers, Eidos' Stéphane D'Astous said, "We're keeping our ear very close to the ground. As you may have noticed, we now have a forum up and running for Thief 4, and I said to my guys 'I really want to have a forum at the very early stages,' because I want people to have a medium with which they can express their wishes, their expectations, and what they would like and not like to happen with the next Thief. Obviously we've started work, but it's always very important for the developers to be close to the community. We're listening to these people because they are very hardcore fans, and we want to bring the Thief 4 franchise to a new level, so the challenges are huge!"
I instantly though of the board game, now that I searched for it I realised it was called "Stop Thief" not "Thief"... but but... where am I?... Get off my lawn!
Thi4f? As in "Thiaf"? Doesn't seem like a good first impression.
Ryan Fenton
All they have to do for huge success if make it nearly exactly like Thief 2. I loved Thief 3 but the lack of huge sprawling levels with many hidden passage ways really hurt the game.
As to the story I hope they make it a prequel or otherwise not have Garret as the main character. The whole Thief mythos was pretty much played out at the end of Thief 3 and a continuation would just feel tacked on (Thief 1 & 2 heavily explored the Pagans and the Hammerites, Thief 3 basically removed the Keepers).
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CINC, 4th Penguin Legion
Look to Thief 2. 3 was something of a letdown; 1 was still a new idea (and therefor somewhat unrefined). 2 was easily the zenith of the series to date.
What was missing from 3? Large open levels, multiple solutions to each problem, and the varied mission objectives. Thief 3 at least got the sneak, stab and sap aspect of the game right, to its credit, and they included the requisite gadgets and arrows. As long as these things remain for 4, the game will be, at a minimum, adequate; done right it can be something more.
One of the things all three games got right was story. Atmosphere, character, plot and background are the series strong points, so they need a decent writer on staff (one familiar with the previous games). For the best of the series atmosphere, look to the Shaleridge Cradle section in Thief 3.
Final detail. Garret, whatever else he is, is one of the game's selling points. There is something to be said for a cynical misanthropic kleptomaniac with a bludgeoning tool and bills to pay. Keep those aspects of his character, and you'll go far; the last thing anyone wants to see is the writers trying to turn him into anything "better" than he is.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
In other news, Deus Ex 3 is being renamed to D3us Ex.
"and we want to bring the Thief 4 franchise to a new level, so the challenges are huge!"
Stop quacking and start talking!
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
It's a bit like DX. What I heard about DX3 tends to indicate it will be rather different from the original in major areas such as gameplay, in spite of Eidos's claims to the contrary. Of course, we'll just have to wait until the game ships to find out. Now Thief 4? I read about the pre-dev concepts Ion Storm Austin was working on shortly before they went under and it was an interesting take, redoing the original game in a modern setting. Obviously though, given it's only just been officially announced, there's no info yet as to what direction they're going for at Eidos.
As always, we cross fingers and hope they won't fuck it up. If they don't pull a Levine and actually keep their promises on Deus Ex 3, a fourth Thief game will be more than welcome. (No offense to Mr. Levine, but BioShock while fun in its own right was not Shock)
We're listening to these people because they are very hardcore fans
That's nice. And for the rest of the Slashdot readers who couldn't care less?
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mtlhdz4evr: "Just make it so it doesn't suck, man !"
RckRietGrrrrl619: "I wanna luv sng. Hugz xxx LOL"
ShredKatz: "Buckethed'z the man. He's so fast, dude. More notes this time, yeah ?"
AlkyBanger: "YEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"
Squirrel!
Fantastic! I love Thief, it's my favorite video game of all time.
However... they ended the series. Not only that, but they kind of butchered their whole attempt at Thief 3. If they want a good new game...
*Item scarcity. 1 & 2 never gave you 30 fire arrows to play with...
*Uninterrupted whole levels. 1 & 2 never had loading zones within a level.
*Complete outdoor areas. 1 & 2 were not set up like dungeons. They were *real* buildings.
*Rooftops.
I could say more, but I'll spare you. :)
The Thief fan community has been trying to get the source to Thief 1 & 2 released for several years but with little success - as a consequence of the bankruptcy of the original developer, it has been hard to even find out who might have it let alone be in a position to release it. However, recently there has been a glimmer of hope since one developer seems to have information about it but permission is still needed, which is why a new petition has been started. We want to improve the engine and enable it to run on modern systems so please slashdot the release petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/ThiefSrc/
Note: This is not the same petition as before but a new one. So even if you have signed the old one, please sign this too.
Didn't notice that the subject line was too long.
I swear, the first couple games were so good, I figured they'd stay overlooked forever. When the third one came out, I thought that it would be the death knell for the whole franchise. But now... it might be around for a long time! Honestly, these are some of the best games ever created. Huzzah!
... Thief 4 is basically a stolen license :-)
BTW Thief 3 sucked badly.
The originality of the first 2 Thief titles will never be possible when the game is dunbed down for the console generation.
Just look at Bioshock which was supposed to be the spiritual successor of the beloved System Shock series.
Another victim of the consoles is Deus Ex 2 which I consider a sibling title of Thief 3, same studio, same problems due to console restraints.
A 12 year old kid that loved the thief series dream just came true :D
As one of the six people who enjoyed Thief 3, I for one welcome our new, numb3r subst1tut10n 0v3rl0rd5.
I never played any of the original games, but I've heard good things about them. Hope they'll release them on GOG as a way to drum up interest in the new game.
...those who can't wait should check out The Dark Mod for Doom 3 - a toolkit for building Thief 1/2 style missions in a reasonably modern game engine. The two alpha missions so far looked extremely good.
Wonder which will be released first, TDM or Thief 4?
It still included one of the best levels of any game in the history of ever and awesome.
The Shalebridge Cradle. This level alone gets me to play Theif 3 every so often.
You were discovered? You hurt a guard? I think you miss the entire point of the series. Discovery or using the sword for anything beyond cutting drapes to check for treasure means you are doing it wrong. If you actually kill a guard you do fail the mission- on hard mode you can't ever kill anything, and that's the only way to actually play the series.
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
They say something about a broader target audience. For Games like Thief, System Shock, Deus Ex, that is a death sentence. Well, not quite, but it assures they will disappoint the fans. Case in Point: Deus Ex was great, Deus Ex 2 was a sick joke. Thief 3 managed to avoid this fate, but narrowly. I remember not finishing it, because I could just not stand some aspects of the game.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I don't care which engine they use anymore. Thief 1/2 engine or Thief 3, either one would work with some enhancements. Yeah, the Thief 3 engine had some *issues*, but that whole generation of ragdoll games had issues. DX2, VTM:B, Thief3...
My biggest hope is some improved AI. Sure, I could make some long, insightful post about the shortcomings of the AI in all three games, but CAD summed it up quite nicely:
http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20040616
OK, when Thief first came out, I played the demo and loved it, but it was so painfully clunky on my old PC that I didn't buy it at the time.
Thief 2 came out, and I had the same ancient PC.
By the time Thief 3 was released, I had a shiny new computer, and immediately bought the game. It was just what I was hoping for. Stealthy, sneaky, scary, and (relatively) realistic. I played beginning to end, then went back and replayed some of my favorite bits. Being able to walk through the streets of the city gave it a much more live feel than just going mission-to-mission.
Eventually, I went back and started on Thief 2. It was good too. Different--different controls, different movement, and different tools, but still very good. I didn't get as far into it because of other reasons (becoming a dad, rather suddenly) but I never understood the hatred for Thief 3. It really was a good game!
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Moooooooooooooo!
Compression filter? Bah.
Loved Thief one and two.
My favorite aspects of the game have been talked about already: Anti-protagonist, scarcity of items, large full levels, great atmosphere, etc...
What I'd love to see is A multiplayer version. Co-op, Anti-Co-op (Get the golden statue before the opposition does. -- Wouldn't it be a hoot to fire a noise arrow in the direction you think an opponent is hiding while the guard is searching for you both.), Guard vs Thief (one sided capture the flag.)
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"First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
-- The Doctor, "Doctor
"We are only requesting the original source code for the graphics engine to these games, not anything more."
Don't you want the audio engine, utility code, and logic, too?
Digital Sailor
On a more serious note, weren't the games made with the Unreal Engine? If so, I believe you'll be pleading indefinitely, because I doubt they have the right to open source that, as well.
I could be wrong.
Digital Sailor
There IS a God. Thank you once again to Lookinglass Studios (R.I.P.) for creating this in the first place. I, for one, can't friggin wait! My favorite game of all time.
You are wrong. Thief 1 & 2 use the Dark Engine, as does System Shock 2. T3 uses a UE, which is why it lacks rope arrows and swimmable water and that's why fans have been so disappointed with it.
Yes, the petition was written by an idiot - as was the previous one. I was absent from the forums when it was put up so I have to support it as it is. However, I think they will understand what we want because undoubtedly some developer will be involved when/if it is released and realize what we intend to do with it. Furthermore other source releases are mentioned, which could also clarify it.
By the time we get source code, OpDE, the Open Dark Engine, will be finished.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/opde/
There's not a lot of discussion on the mailing list -- it's mainly a two-man project ATM. More devs are always welcome.
Just as the x-box was outclassed by the pc's of that era, so the current generation is outclassed by PC's.
People always look at the specs of a console when it is announced, look at their office dell and think WOW! Then a couple of years later when the console is out, they still have that impression but Intel/Amd and nVidia/Ati have moved on. Go ahead, show me how 512mb TOTAL memory compares to a very low powered PC with 2gig and 512mb graphics memory. It is the reason GTA4 has very nice graphics, but still cars that disappear when they are out of sight or pop-up and crash as you round the corner. All the consoles memory is used up by the graphics leaving no room to for instance keep all the cars/pedestrains in memory.
It is the reason MMORPG's don't happen on the console. GTA4 gives you a small selection of cars that appear at one time, but an MMO can't do that. Any texture, any model could be worn by any player and they can appear at random. It is the reason MMORPG's are the memory hogs they are. There is little that can be done about it. Sure, lower the graphics resolution, but that just means you got nasty pictures.
Any cross platform game will be limited by the lowest machine and the consoles are the lowest. Morrowind proved this in extreme. The original game suffered from bad loading on a PC even thought hardly any memory was used. Once the PC only expansion was released, the engine was changed to use all available memory and gone was the loading.
Thief3, Deus Ex2, the entire GTA series are good examples of how the limited memory of consoles restrict game designers in making truly large worlds.
Why do you think there is no WoW on the consoles? Because Blizzard doesn't want any more customers?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The "first-person sneaker" was attractive in its debut. The qualities that made it interesting have been copied, perhaps not all together (medevil mashup, steampunk, pinpoint auditory clues, darkness as a character, actual personalities in NPC voiceovers, etc).
The gameplay mechanics were a little clumsy, and never really fixed with the 3rd release (3rd person views and short loads were a terrible addition due to the console market).
My best suggestions:
- Go back to passing tests for the new character, given by the master Garrett. Make Garrett initially really distant and ambivalent, and perhaps she is only tested by Keepers as Garrett is sick of the scene and doubts her abilities.
- Keep it solo. Team and multi-player are fun, but not really useful in a game where you want to crouch, wait, watch and think.
- Keep some set pieces that tie the entire series: some steampunk, some undead, some faerie-land. Introduce a new one, perhaps an other-worldly egyptian motif. Yes, its been done but not in this series and setting.
- Move history forward. Introduce a train: rail technology, and the use of conveyor-belted mechanics.
- Hurt the character permanently. Garrett lost an eye and it didn't effect the post-event gameplay, but it was intriguing. Perhaps an otherworldly animal is implanted in her and can be played as a character for short periods, leaving the host body comatose (and vulnerable) in the interim.
- Scare the player. The designs of some levels in the Thief series were quite scary, using backwards voices, shrieks, and hulking, angry, unbeatable monsters just a breath from your hiding area.
- Add better use of fire and water. Burn some places down, flood some others.
- Keep the best open-freedom tools: rope arrow, etc. Switch to a crossbow. Get rid of the sword (use a dagger). Give the female character a "run silent for 3 seconds" capability that must be used to complete certain sections. She cannot jump as far/high as a tradeoff. Keep the weapons weak, and multiple paths to success.
- Keep the twists: I have no content to write here, but the double-cross, the incorporation of a new "class" of characters with a strong zealotry to something bizarre, interesting environmental mechanics, etc. Make the game pursue a town-ending or world-ending plot, that lends a lot of weight behind the resolution. Don't make success easy - require every skill to be used.
- Remove the looped paths for guards. For example, the player must wait for a dinner/ceremony to end, or create a commotion outside, or climb on the roof and put out a fire in the fireplace by dumping something down the chimney before they can get past a certain room (multiple paths to success).
- Support 3D. A gimmick really, but with a dual-monitor setup, a polarizer and some glasses, the game could charge more and make easy use of an otherwise already 3D engine.
- Support 5:1 stereo. Really raise the bar on the sound - again, like the 1st game did.
- Improve the sound/physics engines of the past games. Better align sound volumes to activities. It was laughable how loud certain actions were (lock picking is a delicate, quiet act that has an echo? not) in past revisions. Why would a thief wear tap shoes? Make doors, floors creak, gravel crunch, and NPCs can hear quiet things. Don't make metal grating a bunch of stomping noises, but instead a wobbly, banging noise, like walking on a sidewalk elevator cover.
- Make ambient music a character. Turn it off/on when necessary. Use several compositions per area, not just one, depending on the achievements.
- Allow for daylight! Certain levels don't need darkness, but merely careful play acting. Passing as a townie in DS was interesting, but it was still always night.
I wanted to post ideas in the forum they have set up , but the sign-in wouldn't let me join.
My new idea they should implement: more bandwidth.
Has the old saint in his forest not yet heard of it? That God is dead?
As said before:
huge levels are a must, none of the console BS.
Garrett's style and the humor in 1&2 (esp 2's arguing archers)
3's grfx, I suppose would be good, and the lockpicking from 3 (toss up between time freeze, slow, or IRT)
Whatever BS that was in 3 where the person stiffened before being "boffed on the bonce" (whacked on the head),
sheesh, made a mildly playable game insufferably stupid.
Two words: Rope Arrows!
Back to basics and proven games that ppl liked about the first two.
Or, best summation:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/544-Thief-The-Dark-Project
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
You are wrong.
This game will be the best in his category. Sorry for my level of English. Click and Car Hire