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Sun To Build World's Biggest App Store Around Java

Posted by samzenpus on from the would-you-like-apps-with-that dept.

CWmike writes "Sun Micro plans to launch an App Store that could make Apple's look smaller than a 7-Eleven by comparison, CEO Jonathan Schwartz wrote on his blog this week. Schwartz indicated the Java App Store, code-named Project Vector, will focus on PC users and estimated the size of the community at 1 billion. Sun plans to allow Java application developers to submit programs to a simple Web site so the company can evaluate them for safety and content before presenting them to the Java audience. Sun will charge for distribution. The company will reveal more details at its JavaOne conference, which opens June 2 in San Francisco, Schwartz said."

23 of 325 comments (clear)

  1. I was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was going to write a first post, but I got bought-out by Oracle before I could finish it.

    1. Re:I was by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 5, Funny

      I was too, but I had to wait for this java slashdot browsing app to load.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    2. Re:I was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      you must be new here.

  2. Required sales pitch... by marciot · · Score: 5, Funny

    Would you like an Oracle database with that?

  3. I wonder if it'll be coded in Java... by Shag · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...so I could suffer the meta-frustration of waiting for a Java applet to load so I could then buy some Java applets and wait for them to load.

    --
    Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    1. Re:I wonder if it'll be coded in Java... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yo dawg I heard you like waiting so we put Java apps in your Java store so you can wait while you wait

    2. Re:I wonder if it'll be coded in Java... by AuMatar · · Score: 5, Funny

      The jokes were written in Java, they just finished loading.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    3. Re:I wonder if it'll be coded in Java... by f0dder · · Score: 5, Funny

      While you wait please enjoy this Yahoo! toolbar.

    4. Re:I wonder if it'll be coded in Java... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      -Knock Knock!
      -Who's there?

      [...long pause...]

      -Java!

    5. Re:I wonder if it'll be coded in Java... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just in time.

  4. The problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem with this idea, is that PC users already have an App Store... It's called the Internet. Or Walmart.

    Seriously, there's no incentive to use their Java App Store on an open system (home computer) which is very much unlike with the iPhone, where you have to use it in order to get apps.

    1. Re:The problem... by SwabTheDeck · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem with this idea, is that PC users already have an App Store... It's called the Internet. Or Walmart.

      Seriously, there's no incentive to use their Java App Store on an open system (home computer) which is very much unlike with the iPhone, where you have to use it in order to get apps.

      The idea of an "App Store" is appealing, even when you're not forced into using it. It simplifies the acquisition of software by giving every product an identical and simple way of buying and installing it. This, of course, has existed for forever in the F/OSS world in the form of package managers/repositories, but this doesn't really exist on Windows, which (*gasp*) is still what the vast majority of people use.

      Right now, if you want software for your Windows box, you can go to the store and buy a CD/DVD, pop it in, click through an annoying wizard and you're done. OR you go the internet route, which can get unnecessarily complex for the average user. This involves finding the software (if you're lucky, google will point you a primary or trustworthy source), paying for it(which usually involves creating an account for every product you buy since they're all from different vendors), downloading it, decompressing it (which can involve dealing with any of the existing compression schemes, which you may or may not have software to decompress), installing it (if you're lucky, it may just be an executable and your life will be easy), and possibly authenticating it (which requires annoying hoops to jump through as well as providing personal information).

      While I'm not a fan of one company having a monopoly over software distribution, it can definitely simplify the process. You're able to find everything from a trusted source. You only have to make one account. You can then install anything you want with one click, iTunes style. This isn't something that's meant just for your grandma, either. I'd love to save the headache of sifting through all the crap to get something new up and running. It worked for Apple, it worked for Valve, and it's certainly possible that it'll work for Sun.

    2. Re:The problem... by SwabTheDeck · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One more thing I forgot to add: software updates. Right now, most products have their own method of updating. You might be prompted for a new version and have the option to download it in-place. You may be redirected to a web site where you can download it form. You may have to explicitly tell the product to check for an update. Or, if you're exceptionally unlucky, the product may not have any soft of update mechanism in place, in which case it's up to you to keep on top of it. In a world where almost no software is shipped as "complete" anymore, updating is critical.

    3. Re:The problem... by VGPowerlord · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are several "app stores" already for PCs, they've just concentrated on games in the past.

      Steam is a really good example of this, including automatic updates.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  5. Re:Software repository... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    All the programs are written in Java. It's more like a software *suppository*....

  6. Who cares? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, seriously, who cares?

    Sun plans to allow Java application developers to submit programs to a simple Web site so the company can evaluate them for safety and content before presenting them to the Java audience. Sun will charge for distribution.

    This model is meaningful for Joe Sixpack audience, which does need that click-click-click-bought, installed & running approach. But how many Java apps for that market you know? It's all desktop ones, remember, and Swing still looks and feels horrible on any desktop, from Windows to X to Mac. We're in double digits for the total usable app count, at best...

    Server apps and development utilities/libraries? Java ecosystem there is OSS-centric a long time ago, and you aren't going to scare a Java developer with .tar.gz files, regardless of the platform - they have to learn to deal with that stuff for the most basic tools, starting from Ant/Maven, and for most handy frameworks, too. Then, of course, OSS guys aren't going to use a paid distribution service anyway.

    In fact, Schwartz seems to recognize that no-one needs this for Java, and so:

    This creates opportunity for everyone in the developer community - and specifically, for any developer (even those not using Java/JavaFX) seeking to reach beyond the browser to create a durable relationship with their customers

    Oh, great. So it's another Sun product with "Java" in name which has nothing whatsoever to do with Java, except that your next Java update will run an installer with "Install Java App Store client" checkbox set by default. Sounds familiar? Don't they ever learn?

    Schwartz goes on to boast Java market penetration, careful to mention " billions of ... mobile devices, and smartcards, millions of enterprise servers, set top boxes, Blu-Ray DVD players" - all of which, of course, having no relevance to the subject being discussed. But he has to, because if you look at figures for the desktop, it suddenly doesn't look so impressive. Frankly, I'd suspect that Google has a higher percentage of Toolbar & Search installs then desktop Java on Windows today. Not to mention Microsoft, if it decides to jump on the bandwagon... imagine an application store with Windows Update integration for purchased applications.

  7. Sun was about engineering, now about marketing by syousef · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I take everything Sun says these days with 10 grains of salt. They still have some great products but they are not without their problems. They talk everything up big and have grandiose plans that have sometimes proven to be vaporware.

    I was at a Sun Developer Day earlier this week. In a room full of 600+ people they took a show of hands about who was using JavaFX (almost no one) and MySQL (10%). They then proceeded to do 1.5 hour long in depth sessions on each. Then look at VirtualBox. Awesome software, and improving more quickly than VMWare - lighter weight too. Yet they insist that no one wants Parallel port virtual devices even though people are clamouring for it.

    Oh well, Sun will fade into Oracle in the near future...

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  8. After 14 years Java apps are still 2nd class by putaro · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I like Java. I do a lot of work in Java. I even ship an application written in Java that is installed on thousands of desktops worldwide. So, you can probably count me as a Java fan boi but I gotta ask:

    Why the hell is it that after 14 years of Java we still can't get a Java app that looks and feels like a native app on Windows or Linux or even Solaris for god's sake. Why does anyone trying to ship a Java app either have to make the user jump through hoops installing JRE's and JDK's and other nonsense or has to code up special installers and .exe's to launch the JVM?

    I ship an app on the Mac written in Java. Despite Apple's current pull back on their Java support, at least a Java app gets packaged up the same way as a native app and the Java runtime is installed as part of the OS.

    Now, I understand that Sun has no control over Windows, but could we at least define a standard location for the JRE? Could we have a standard Java launcher that doesn't involve command line goo?

    And as for Solaris - you still have to launch Java apps by running "java" from the shell or inside a script. Bourne shell scripts have been executables for 30 years, why the hell can't Java apps be executables as well? Solaris is Sun's OS. Java should shine and be the recommended language for everything.

    And don't even get me started on "Java Web Start". Half the browsers leave little .jnlp turds all over your download folder or desktop.

    Sun has simply fallen down with Java as a desktop platform. It's hard to deliver apps written in Java to customers, period. Swing is *still* ugly - and that's comparing it up against Windows UI's.

    And there's still not a decent GUI builder for Swing. The NeXTStep GUI builder in 1997 worked better than Netbeans does today. Every time I add a component things it's a 50-50 chance that my whole layout will be destroyed as Netbeans moves things around randomly.

    Sun, you have just failed so badly at making Java a viable desktop language. Maybe Oracle can clean up your mess but I doubt it.

  9. Re:You will, eventually by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    and iPhone is a sheer wonder of marketing genius by any measure...

    Those who dismiss usability and design (and the network effect!!) under the gauzy umbrella of "marketing" are doomed to incorrect predictions until they learn otherwise.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  10. Re:Go Java! by fractoid · · Score: 5, Funny

    HHISSSSSSSSssssSSSsSssSsssSS!
    Hsssshssssssssthhhhhh!!

    (This message written and authorized by the Annoying Python Evangelists' Club).

    --
    Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  11. The solution... by Xest · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yet people use apt-get instead of just downloading the tgz's directly on Linux, why is that?

    Because if you do have a centralised app repository that is extremely easy to use and which contains quality, tested applications it's much easier to use than searching the internet for something that may or may not do what you want and may or may not be trojan infested.

  12. Re:Go Java! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Coding in C/C++ is like riding a skateboard: you will eat shit a million times for every trick you land

    That's how you become a real man, son. Not a quiche eating pansy boy.

  13. Re:You forgot something by Neuroprophet · · Score: 5, Informative

    Interesting. That hasn't been my experience at all. I work at a major investement bank and the majority of the middle tier of our trading systems are now written in Java. Have been for years. I'm not talking web based apps either. These days the back ends of a lot of the trading systems are a collection of Java apps running on Linux servers (usuall Red Hat) using using pub/sub messaging for communication and jdbc to connect to Oracle, Sybase or DB2.

    I've been doing this for a while (10+ years) and went through the progression of doing everything in C, then C++, then Java. When told to start using Java to say I was skeptical would be an understatement. But over the years Java has become great for this purpose. We experience no random memory growth (leaked memory) from our processes. We leave them up for weeks on end processing large volumes of trades with no issues. Since we run our programs for long periods of time startup time isn't an issue and really doesn't take that long anymore anyway. The time saved coding in Java instead of C++ is also beneficial. No more having to learn every vendor's version of their C++ threading library and trying to stitch it all together in one app. Too many times would I have to write an app using serveral vedor libs that I would need to modify and they all implemented threading, logging, etc. their own way. So as you jump from one file to another there is no consistency on how things are being done. Maintenance nightmare and the learning curve is huge for new members of the team.

    Plus, as a manager trying to hire competent C++ programmers out of college is almost impossible. Seems like many schools just don't teach it anymore. So if HR only gives you a junior programmer budget and you need a C++ programmer you end up getting the guy nobody else would hire.

    Disclaimer: Above experience anecdotal. I'm sure there are people out there who have had really bad experiences.