Slashdot Mirror
In Istanbul, Cameras To Recognize 15,000 Faces/sec.
An anonymous reader writes "Istanbul's popular (and crowded) Istiklal shopping, cafe, and restaurant street is being outfitted with 64 wirelessly controlled, tamper-proof face-recognition cameras attached to a computer system capable of scanning 15,000 faces per second in a moving crowd for a positive match. The link from Samanyolu, badly translated by Google, states that 3 cameras are in place so far and that if trials are successful, this will mark the first time such a system, previously used by Scotland Yard and normally reserved for indoor security use, will be put to use in a public outdoor setting. It also notes that each camera controlled by the system is capable of 'locking onto' the faces of known criminals and pickpockets detected in the crowd and 'tracking' their movements for up to 300 meters before the next, closer placed camera takes over." Hit the link for more of this reader's background on the growing electronic encroachment on privacy in this city, which will be the European Capital of Culture in 2010, causing him to ask, "Is the historic city of Istanbul turning into the new London?"
While the article doesn't state it outright, it would appear likely that the outdoor face recognition system, if "successful," will be expanded to other crowded areas of Istanbul as well, which has already seen a dazzling increase in the number of installed plain-vanilla (non face-recognizing) CCTV cameras in recent years. This comes after Istanbul's two signature Bosphorus bridges have become passable only by vehicles with a mandatory vehicle windscreen-mounted electronic pass, subway and bus tickets in the city have gone electronic, vote tallying in municipal and national elections has become fully computerized, and future plans for mandatory biometric ID cards for all Turkish citizens have been announced by the government.
The ruling "moderate Islamist" AKP party appears to frame these and other e-government initiatives as "keeping step with the times," "keeping step with other major world cities," and "making living safer, easier and more efficient through the targeted use of electronic technology." Its secular critics, on the other hand, argue that everything and everyone under the sun is rapidly becoming electronically trackable thanks to the omnipresence of mobile phones and gratuitous overuse of these installed electronic systems, and that these systems will, eventually, form a dense surveillance grid that could turn daily life for Turks (and secular Turks critical of the current government in particular) into living in a veritable Big Brother House.
While the article doesn't state it outright, it would appear likely that the outdoor face recognition system, if "successful," will be expanded to other crowded areas of Istanbul as well, which has already seen a dazzling increase in the number of installed plain-vanilla (non face-recognizing) CCTV cameras in recent years. This comes after Istanbul's two signature Bosphorus bridges have become passable only by vehicles with a mandatory vehicle windscreen-mounted electronic pass, subway and bus tickets in the city have gone electronic, vote tallying in municipal and national elections has become fully computerized, and future plans for mandatory biometric ID cards for all Turkish citizens have been announced by the government.
The ruling "moderate Islamist" AKP party appears to frame these and other e-government initiatives as "keeping step with the times," "keeping step with other major world cities," and "making living safer, easier and more efficient through the targeted use of electronic technology." Its secular critics, on the other hand, argue that everything and everyone under the sun is rapidly becoming electronically trackable thanks to the omnipresence of mobile phones and gratuitous overuse of these installed electronic systems, and that these systems will, eventually, form a dense surveillance grid that could turn daily life for Turks (and secular Turks critical of the current government in particular) into living in a veritable Big Brother House.
But can there be 15000 people in it's view within each second?
signature is pants
So I'm guessing that setting up a stand selling fake mustaches, Guy Fawkes masks, and Groucho Marx glasses on a busy corner in Consta... er.. Istanbul would get me a lot of money and a lot of police attention quickly.
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
CCTV ... ... ...
- less effective than promised
- doesn't reduce serious crimes like assault
- doesn't reduce, but shift crime scenes to other areas
- less effective than more light, more policemen,
- more expensive than more light, more policemen,
- often not working, tech staff admits
Nah, that's no one's business but the Turks.
0x68ADA2CC
...to add to their massive data mining efforts. I can't even imagine the possibilities...
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." --Mark Twain
...64 wirelessly controlled, tamper-proof face-recognition cameras...
Sorry, but that's an oxymoron. It may be tamper-resistant (and some wireless devices have pretty good tamper resistance), but nothing that can be controlled wirelessly is tamper proof. Especially not when even the entity that has legitimate access (presumably the Turkish government) is entirely trustworthy to begin with.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
It's inevitable that face-recognition technology, combined with the myriad of other technologies that already allow individuals to be tracked in their daily lives, will become pervasive enough to provide a "dense surveillance grid" to anybody with access to a big enough dataset. The era of anonymous living is quickly coming to an end. We'd be better off devising technological counter-measures than trying to hold back this tide with laws.
Wow- Every day we are making leaps and bounds in the fields of political oppression! It truly is a bright*I MEAN GRAY* future. Lets all get together and have a party! It would be )@(dwCARRIER LOST
Gives new meaning to the phrase "Big Brother is watching you."
Sometimes technologies inevitably, if deployed, will be abused. Some technologies are too powerful to be in anybody's hands. Power corrupts, and all that.
Who's funding this? Whose interest is this in? Will trials in this area go on to "benefit" other areas of the world?
Any time you see 'X'-proof in a description, you know they're bullshitting you. There's never been a lock made that couldn't be picked or bypassed in some way.
The real question is whether it's worth the hassle - hasn't London's experiences shown that CCTV cameras either get broken or people just move into the blind spot to do something they don't want seen?
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
First Constantinople, then this. And I still want to know- why did Constantinople get the works?
http://twitter.com/OLDTELEGRAM
...the phrase 15,000 faces per second is just an example of sensationalistic journalism.
There is a minimum input size for the identification of a 'face' dependent upon aspect and the focal length of the camera in question (amongst many other factors such as radial distortion due to the lens, whether the lens is shielded, lighting, et cetera); ergo, the camera in question, at a given focal length, could contain a field of view large enough and the resolution is high enough to meet 15,000 x the absolute mimimal pixel input for a 'face.' The processing for systems of this type (although I don't recall if it applies to this particular system) is tileable and accounts for boundary conditions (a 'face' falls on up to 4 tiles); therefore, the processing is highly parallel in nature. Most likely they meant that with the maximum cameras in place, given their proposed resolutions and fields of view, if they had unlimited computing power they'd theoretically be able to process 15,000 faces each second.
Solving a computer vision problem like this turns out to be highly hierarchical; i.e. a large number of computers process the incoming camera frames for optical flow, multigaussian motion detecxtion, edge detection, --insert motion map generating algorithm here--, these motion maps are shuttled to a second tier of systems who perform basic pattern recognition in order to discern probable aspect, reference points, and other forms of meta data. This tier can, if given a profile, apply discriminatory filters to sort the wehat from the 'chaff.' These 'probables' are then passed to the highest tier of systems who process this (hopefully) much smaller number of 'faces' using things such as color-space normalization from the original image, the motion map, and all the associated method data that has been generated along the way.
Luckily, most of the large companies working in these sorts of field are capable of producing crude prototypes; but, oddly enough, quality software engineers tend to be scarce amongst security companies. It is the startups and smaller companies (such as those found in Israel) that approach these types of problems with the flexibility to lead to some seriously scary big brother stuff.
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Does it also have some high quality see-through-the-burkha scan tech?
Boy, good thing you were here to fill us in on that one.
Just normal sunglasses would do the trick nicely, not to mention traditional Muslim head wear.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
"...growing electronic encroachment on privacy..."
There might be by other means, but this isn't one of them...It can't be a privacy issue if it's in a public place because IT'S PUBLIC.
Of course, Turks have been known to pound the ass of their prisoners in other sources.
Which is officially illegal in the Turkey.
You know... They reformed...
At least before the fundamentalist retards got strong again.
Compare this to your own history. ^^
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Though those stories clearly refer to invading the privacy of one house, scholars universally extend to any prying.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night
Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way
So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks
Istanbul (Istanbul)
Istanbul (Istanbul)
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way
Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks
So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks
Istanbul
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
0.6% seems like a good ballpark figure for false positives.This research paper claims 0.6%. This article says "Commercial facial recognition technology ... had a 1 percent false positive rate."
15000 faces/sec * 0.6% false positives = 90 false positives per second.
How many cops does it take to ask 90 people per second to come to the police station to answer a few questions? How many busses does it take to take 90 people per second to the police station?
Once they get there, if it takes five minutes to look at each suspect's papers, run them through the computer, and clear them, that police station waiting room will need to be big enough to hold 27,000 people.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Wow! I am amazed at the level of your intellectual capacity. Let me see, it goes like this: you saw it in a movie, so it must be true. How about doing some fact checking before spewing venom at people? Start with this:
http://www.turkeytravelplanner.com/bsst/midnight_express.html
And then take a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_Express_(film)
At that time, this cheapshot movie was just what the powers that be needed to blame the loss of their "war on drugs" on another country that had very little to do with it (except being in a bad neighborhood) instead of admitting that it was a very bad idea right from the beginning.
Anyone else think this is overkill? I can't pull 15,000 faces a second. Hell I don't think I know how to pull more than about 50 faces. Maybe 100 with variations. I can pull maybe 2 a second. Does this technology recognise middle fingers too?
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
. . . and it is looking back at me.
So when this becomes ubiquitous will face transplants become more common?
The Amazing Kreskin predicts a new fashion trend in headscarves and veils.
And yes, the Amazing Kreskin is well aware of the political climate in Turkey regarding scarves.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Leaking confidential information, eh? Looks like you are unaware of our sister project which can identify 15,000 persons per second based on what they write. You are fired!
I, for one, think that this actually will be rather intressting as an experiment. Imagine a city that implemented all of the new and integrity violating security technology. Well now we have a city that does it, and it will be intressting to see if it really leads to an 1984 big brother state, or will actually lead to superiour crime fighting. But at the same time, I, of course, feel sorry for the inhabitants of Istanbul. If this was to be implemented in my own town, I would fight it becouse it violates the right to not be investigated if you aren't a suspect, which, it automatically makes all citizens.
you have no idea what you are talking about.
... in a country that tapped 70 thousand people in last 3 years: [link]http://euranet.eu/index.php/eng/Today/News/English-News/Turkey-taps-70-000-telephones[/link]
All links are pointing towards asspull journalism of pants on head retard propaganda sites.
Well, at least I know how to put proper quotes in my post, so people won't have to copy and paste the address in the browser.
I recommend you start some research in a field where you seem to be sorely lacking
As for the "venom at people" thing, sorry if I hurt your Turkish sensibilities, but all citizens of an empire must learn to cope with that, even if the empire hasn't existed for nearly a century.
LMFAO Peep the plot keywords from Midnight Express on IMDB.
My Favourite: Male Rear Nudity
I don't know the specifics, but since the official name change came shortly after the collapse of the Turkish Empire, I'd guess that it had a lot to do with the ethnic cleansing that occurred at the time, which resulted in most of Turkey's Greek-speaking minority being forced to leave the country. Under the circumstances, it's not surprising that the city's Greek name got dropped from official usage, and replaced by a Turkish colloquialism ("Istanbul" is a Turkish corruption of a Greek phrase that could be roughly translated as "The city's that way") that had been widely used for centuries but previously had been unofficial.
Now, if I could just get that stupid song out of my head...
Plot Keyword: Turcophobia
Definition: a person who has a morbid fear of Turks.
Classic.
The infrared option will allow it to see right through the beard and glasses. Not to mention the X ray option which will allow to scan through just about everything and match teeth to dental records.
If Hubble can detect what some million-light years away sun is made of, I'm pretty sure a face within a kilometre should be no problem.
Too bad prisons are so full already. Otherwise we could use such a system.
Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
Just from the summary, it's 64 cameras which "report" (ie dump images) to a computing cluster which can process the 15,000 faces/second. I would agree that it's sensationalistic journalism, hell it got me to read the article, but I don't think it's merely a theoretical possibility. I would argue that the person with the first post had a more intelligent comment and with much less text.
A tinfoil face mask is the best protection.
Hubble uses spectroscopy to do that. I don't think you can use that method to pick one person out of a crowd.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
paired together with computer-based/automated facial recognition, all this monitoring is going to make life really hard for dissidents eventually. at some point they're really going to be forced to live/hide out in the sewers, if they're going to remain in built-up areas.
considering Orwell was British (and the widespread deployment of CCTVs seems to have begun there), it makes sense that resistance to this pervasive monitoring began there, but even with these (generally fringe) groups, it's still happening. You've got to wonder if the reason the totalitarian regimes we've had crumble, is because the technology wasn't available yet. What happens when it IS available?
I love comments like this. An AC who can't even bother to use capitals or punctuation states the post is rubbish with no justification or explanation as to why.
The main point is, automated Google translation from Turkish is nowhere is good, and any respectable news source (i.e: slashdot) should not refer to it, unless they want to look funny.
As someone mentioned above: "they set us the bomb". But given the context of the article, probably "all your base are belong to us".
Just wear a traditional burqa. Problem solved.
False Positives must be zero for this to be effective. If they could get a (very) high resolution system to do retina recognition rather than facial recognition the false positives would decrease as would the ability to fool the cameras with prosetics (groucho eyebrow implants and angelina jolie lips). You easily could get 15,000 people to look straight at a camera with a photo of tub girl or goatse. Just think of John Anderton walking into the Gap being greeted by an advert. Hello Mr. Yukkamoto.
I wonder how many faces the cameras in Soviet Russia could recognize...
>> most real crimes are rare and occur mostly in uninhabited or lower-class areas
occur mostly in lower-class areas ... hmm, might be true numerically, but I bet a heck of a lot more money is stolen in "higher-class" areas.
"You can steal a lot more money with a briefcase and a pen, than you ever could with a knife and a gun" (anon, possibly me)
"Cats like plain crisps"
If so, is it equally unsafe for Brazilians?
What if someone is sniped based on looks?
This plus data mining:
1) Point one of these these in each direction on every traffic light
2) Correlate cell phone conversations (just the participants, not the audio)
3) Add in some credit card data
4) Wait for Moore's law to catch up.
Result:
a) Suicide bombers have all their friends checked out, then all their friends, etc.
Eventually patterns will emerge, allowing ringleaders to be found.
A few dozen bombers in a region would quickly generate some patterns.
b) Death of all privacy as we know it..
The law is a weapon of the government, not a protection for the likes of you. Surely you understand that.
Oh come on, they made a camera immune to slingshots, spray paint, chewing gum on the lens, Vaseline on the lens, a bag placed over the camera, a piece of aluminum foil wrapped around it... not to mention a thousand other things including just being stolen... yes, they could use the other cameras to defend each other... but no, then you can't watch the crowd.
This only works if the people tolerate it.
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
So you still lose your wallet, but now you get to watch it on youtube from three different angles.
Hal Spacejock: Science Fiction with Nuts
...and this is sensationalism, there is no good way to process 15,000 faces/second.
... and those algorithms tend to get confused easily (the one on our test bench, from a very large company that does a lot of government sales, tries to chase shadows from the ceiling fan, inevitably follows them to the corner and never sees anything useful again until someone manually overrides it).
Here's how it works in the real world:
1) Face recognition demos well with small data sets. When you set it up on a conference room and scan everyone's face in the meeting, and then have each subject re-approach the camera, it works great. Note that the each subject in this demo is in the same lighting and didn't grow a mustache in the last 5min -- and there were only ~10 people in the data set. The real world is very different. A 15,000 subject data set is very very different.
2) When you set up a camera to scan for faces you need a lot of pixels in a head-on portrait type of shot. 640x480 is actually still pretty high resolution for a camera (there are some 8 megapixel ones but they are rare and they generate so much data that it quickly gets hard to switch and store that much data, even locally). Still, you'll need most of those 640 pixels wide in order to get a good shot of a face -- esp. if you're going to run that face against a large data set.
3) So, if you had 15,000 640x480 cameras, they'd still have to be setup in front of 15,000 turnstiles, or some other kind of crowd control device, for you to know that you're going to get a good face shot AND people would have to be moving through those turnstiles at 1 person/second. Picking faces out of a crowd? Not going to happen. You'd at least need PTZ (Pan/Tilt/Zoom cameras) with face finding/tracking/grabbing algorithm to even try
The closest centralized face-tracking technology is from a company called 3VR, they are used by banks to spot known bad-check writers at the bank counter (when someone cashes a bad check, they will use a different name/account/ID but they still show up with the same face). It works okay, better than nothing at least, but they can tolerate a lot of false-positives and just slow pay them or ask for a 2nd form of ID or whatever.
The company I started, Connexed, centralizes video from a lot of cameras, but I can say definitively that there is no tool on the market that will process 15,000 faces per second, no matter how much money you throw at it, and do anything useful other than trigger a flood of false-positive ID's faster than humans can process. You could always try to set the algorithm for maximum false-negatives (let a lot of bad guys get by) and minimum false-positives but even then, unless you have some way to get 15,000 people/second to look directly into a camera under good lighting, you're not going to have anything useful happen.
I'm sure it demo'd well, though, and the vendor got a good chunk of money for the trial that will ultimately fail.
My favorite quote doesn't fit into 120 characters. Now no one will like me.
The ruling "moderate Islamist" AKP party appears to frame these and other e-government initiatives as "keeping step with the times," "keeping step with other major world cities," and "making living safer, easier and more efficient through the targeted use of electronic technology." Its secular critics, on the other hand, argue that everything and everyone under the sun is rapidly becoming electronically trackable thanks to the omnipresence of mobile phones and gratuitous overuse of these installed electronic systems, and that these systems will, eventually, form a dense surveillance grid that could turn daily life for Turks (and secular Turks critical of the current government in particular) into living in a veritable Big Brother House.
Where to begin? Yes the AKP is "moderate Islamist", but to make the invasion of privacy in Turkey to be the work of scary Muslims is disingenuous at best.
People who follow the country know that the AKP is currently involved in a existential struggle with the old order in Turkey (military, police, security services, parts of the judiciary, paramilitary organisations, etc). But it has been the entrenched forces which have been behind Turkey's record of terrible human rights abuses. Under the AKP these are being brought to light -- see the Ergenekon trials -- and institutions like the military are experiencing scrutiny which was until now considered unthinkable. The old parties, like the CHP, have been shown for what they really are: corrupt and unable to do anything outside their 1930s Kemalist mindset. Instead, under the "Islamists", Turkey has made the greatest strides towards EU membership, has began to give the Kurds something that approaches minority rights and has started to address some of the lingering international concflicts, such as with Armenia and Cyprus. In each of these cases, there is a long, and unquestionably painful, way to go, but none of these things have ever happened before.
Now to suggest that the AKP is as pure as it likes to think itself (ak='white') is just as laughable. They have proven to be nearly as corrupt as their predecessors. Some frankly outrageous laws have been passed or are still on the books. And some abuses just don't matter to the AKP because it is the poor or unimportant who suffer. I'd be the last person to ever vote for a religious party in my country, but give credit where credit is due and acknowledge the AKP for what it has actually accomplished.
On to the article, then. A few clarifications are in order.
First, the electronic pass needed for the bridges. Unless I am mistaken, you can still cross the second bridge paying by cash, but even if you can't, just could just use one of the car ferries which do the crossing around the clock. And I don't see how the electronic pass would be a necessary part of some surveillance network - it would be just as easy to mount cameras over the entrance to the bridge. And if you think about it, the only way to stop people from taking a pass from one car and putting it another car would be to mount cameras over the entrance of the bridge -- so nothing gained by using the pass, hey?
Second, the bus passes are not tied to a person. 90% are metal tabs (electronic tickets according the article) you can attach to your keychain and which can be bought (actually just a deposit) anywhere without presenting any identification. The remaining bus passes are attached to an ID card, but the office who issues the card doesn't attach the metal tab. That is done by a guy in a booth who physically stamps it in for anyone who shows up with an ID card. Watch him do it: it takes a few seconds -- and he doesn't record the details of which bus pass card gets which metal tab.
About the others, such as the ID cards with biometric data and so on. Let's be clear. Invasions of privacy are a fact of life in Turkey, but they are not part of some AKP plot to root out secular dissenters. Opposition to the AKP is so vocal and so public, they would have a
Why have there been so few mechanical turk jokes?
Tibbon
tibbon.com
Neither sunglasses nor traditional head wear is illegal in Turkey. There is an embarrassing issue of ban on turban for students (when they are inside public schools or universities) and government officers (while they are working.) But one can wear anything they want on streets, in public places and also in majority of government offices. The military has an funny twist on the ban that wearing turbans (by civilians, inside military offices) is banned while traditional head wear is not.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
If there is a 0.6% to 1% false positive ratio, that means that out of 1000 "flagged" people 6-10 of these will be of innocent people. Those other 990-994 other guys will be "bad guys" - or true positives from a technical point-of-view. So, whatever the detection rate, a false positive ratio of 1% - as grave as that is to those innocents who are "flagged" - will not make the solution completely unworkable.
Notice who you don't need a waiting rom big enough to hold 27 000 people when you apply knowledge and mathematics correctly?
Stop the brainwash
...nationalist nation like Saudi Arabia.
For the past decade, muslim conservatives have slowly wormed themselves into Turkey's prominent positions and have implemented Sharia/Local Muslim laws.
Ataturk's greatest legacy was a fiercely secular nation which was protected by its Army.
The Army was highly secular and any attempts to make the country another muslim dictatorship was resisted with force.
However in the past decade, the wise old men have slowly faded away and as a result the long-suppressed muslim irritator have come to the fore.
They started with small things first:
Hijabs for Girls and Women in College/School. This was resisted by many, but ultimately the conservatives won.
Governmental jobs for non-secular muslim patriots and mullahs only. New vacancies are filled with these bearded monsters.
A weak Parliment exploited by muslim conservatives who support any party as long as they get their way. The other parties too, in their mad hunger for short-term power cede more to muslims.
Add to that the EU refusal to include Turkey as EU country (stupendously idiotic) has fanned the muslims cries of discrimination (they always have this inferiority complex) and led to more nationalism in muslim garb.
Now call up any of your friends in Turkey and ask about the Political situation and they are more likely to reply with details of next-door Tailor.
Fear has slowly permeated the country where phones are tapped.
One in every 10,000 turks is now a spy for the muslim government.(And no i did not make this up. Read Economist magazine, last week's).
The same scenario Hitler used to come to power is being reenacted here.
Only this time its a trio of muslim mullahs who seek to overturn what was Ataturk's Greatest Achievement: Fierce Secularism.
The day will come when Ataturk's birthday will no longer be a Holiday, and his face removed from Halls of Power and Public.
Considering that Turkey is a NATO ally and has nukes stationed by NATO, this is a terrifying thought.
What best way for a mullah to acquire a nuke than to acquire a developed country which has many!
Turkey looks like a strategic plan by muslim mullahs to acquire a foothold into developed nation status and get nukes.
Yes, you may mod me as a Rant/Flamebait/Offtopic but i did not imagine these.
Check the magazines, check the books and better call up any friends in Turkey and ask pointedly whether they can speak against this muslim conservative liberals.
Give one small toe-hold to a muslim party and they will pervert the entire nation to their will and subjugate the majority.
Never give any quarter. France and Britain should stop appeasing these people. Law is law, for everyone. I cannot go to Riyadh and pray at a temple or a church. There are none. I cannot ask my wife to wear Jeans and open-neck T-shirts. NOPE.
When i enter Saudi Arabia i MUST obey their stupid laws.
But when they enter France they expect France to obey Saudi laws like Hijabs, etc.
And better yet Britain agrees with them.
Wow!
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
I entirely agree, although the journalist is probably just selling a press release. A much more honest description would be to say a minimum of at least 150 faces wrongly identified per second, in ideal conditions.
Facial recognition systems have misclassification rates measured in percent. If we're being generous, and we say it's 1% (crazy, I know), then that's 150 faces incorrectly identified per second. That's 9000 mistakes per minute, 540,000 mistakes per hour and 13 million mistakes per day, assuming your ideal conditions. If 1% is too optimistic, the numbers get higher. You do the math.
Time to support hijab?
This one is a hard nut to crack.
Innocent/law-abiding citizens should have the right to be anonymous.
Criminals and the like only have the right to remain silent, but not to be anonymous?
Isn't it perhaps more a psyop than real thing ?
WM
These systems are being put in place in every major city around the western world. The limiting factor in the speed of implementation is cost, but it's coming.
Don't expect your politicians to slow implementation down - they want to control your lives; that's why they're politicians.
Tell me, at what point during the discussions, planning and implementation of the countrywide system to track number plates around the UK did your elected representative ask you what you thought about the plan? They had almost twenty years as the system was put together piece by piece, to ask you.
Either they didn't know about it, or they didn't care to ask you.
Istanbul. Very funny. Better start looking at Guildford, Shepherd's Bush, Oxford Street, Southampton... every motorway junction...
Hai guise !
ARMENIAN GEOCIDE.
yhbt yhl hand.
I doubt anyone is angry at technology. Not even at the people that invented it (let's be sensible here, being angry at something that has no conscience is kinda moot). A software that's able to recognize 15k people a second is kinda cool.
We are afraid of people abusing it, just like you say. We're afraid because we know people will abuse it. The question is not "if", the question is "when". And that when seems to be now already.
There simply is no way that this won't be abused. It's just way too tempting. Especially if you're a politician afraid of your subjects. Like, well, almost all people in power these days.
You might notice that the camera craze started shortly after the police riots in Paris. It wasn't even after the 9/11 attacks. Nobody threw cams around for "terrorist spotting" back then. Politicians are afraid of domestic riots by people who feel like they have nothing to lose and everything to gain because society cast them out. This kind of people started two quite successful revolutions in history (1789 and 1917, if I'm not mistaken), and, thinking about it, they were two of the few "successful" revolutions. Not in the long run, but it sure costed some powerful people head and life.
I can see why politicians and governments are afraid of their subjects.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Hubble uses spectroscopy to do that. I don't think you can use that method to pick one person out of a crowd.
Why not?
All you'd have to do is heat the crowd until they're glowing so as to give off enough light to analyze.
Or is that a problem?
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
If you are going to go that far just build a big gas chromatograph. Run an electric current through them and measure how far their molecules move.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
A sudden increase in the use of traditional female islamic head gear of the extreme variety would present an interesting challenge to this oriental attempt at big brother.
--frank[at]unternet.org
All of us knows that this system is not going to work as expected, but also the aim of "isra-american government of Turkey (akp)" is not tracking all suspicious people, the aim is totally different. As you know, Istanbul is a very crowded and cosmopolit city that there many things happens and has many much spies, criminals wondering. It is impossible to match the faces of all criminals in Turkey, but it is possible to match some of them and the isra-american party - akp will give the control of these thing to other intelligence services such as cia, mossad, kgb. This is the aim. Do you know that for only 3 (three) cameras the money spent is 850.000 Euros! (~1.200.000 USD) and, one of the creators of this sytem is an english man, the other three is russian. Yep, there is no turkish man exists in this project!
As I am a turkish man I feel ashamed. Please catch the aim, and do not allow things like this in your country.
Fake moustaches? Having seen a few Turkish TV shows, I'd say they have no need of those.
But in Soviet Russia, 15000 people recognise the cameras!
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
actually usage of turban and other wear that hides women is illegal according to the reforms instituted by m kemal. the fact that the dumbfucked islamofascists in turkey and their predecessors did not seek to implement these rules and laws properly does not mean otherwise. something being legalized and enforced are two different things. just as in the example of hats for govt. officials. in turkey laws state that government workers have to wear panama hats, since 1930s. it is still that way. but the law is not enforced.
thats the problem with turkey anyway. irresponsibility, unruliness, disrespect of rules and law are the norms.
Read radical news here
UK has a working democracy, many watchdogs, all kinds of media and you think London is bad.
The system is a nightmare for a country like Turkey which even judicial system is in question recently. Whole govt. and key parts of system has been transformed to be run by an Islamic cult members called ''Nur'' cult who has close ties with every kind of dark organization out there. As with all cults, if a judge, police officer is member of the cult, he decides whatever is good for the cult and not anything else, even including the religion they claim to be belong to.
Pick the most frightening cult with amazing money in Western World, subtract democracy and freedom of press, add Islam sauce and multiply with 10. That is what secular people in Turkey has to deal with and hope diminishes each day.
Yikes!
You are wrong. Please go read those laws to see why: http://www.edebiyatdefteri.com/index.asp?istek=tum_yazilar&k=detay&yazi_id=9886 I'm not defending their existence in any way; they are meant to violate a basic human right (freedom of expression) and are completely unenforceable in practice. But enforced or unenforced, right or wrong, they do not ban any kind of dress for women. None at all.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
"Have you ever been in a Turkish Prison?"
Here is the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmHOteBVqKI
Libertas in infinitum
If you'd read my entire post you'd realize that it is not a 'computing cluster' it is a hierarchy of machines divided by jobs to represent a processing pipeline. It is similar to low-end renderfarming amongst workstations (thinking of a given scene to render as the equivalent of a frame from a given camera.)
I'm sorry you didn't find my description of the process informative.
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LOL, you're dead on the money (do you work in computer vision? ;)) because these types of products tend to benchmark each other by "false alarm rates" and you wouldn't believe how incredibly spurious the marketing hype can be. "We get 97% accurate alarming", then you ask them "what were the conditions of the test? Was it sunny? Cloudy? Night? Is that black/white, 2CIF, 320x240, 640x480, NTSC/PAL? Was it raining? Foggy? Winter or summer?" - They can never answer any of it, because it is INCREDIBLY difficult to test in a 'generic' fashion and everyone always tests (shocker) in their favor. :) The only time you can clearly benchmark these products against each other (for quality of detection) is when a group like SPAWAR holds a little contest for a given contract and THEY decide the detection tests.
Tests like these are hugely valuable just due to your ability to discern who has a 'product' and who has a 'demo.' The people with a real product spend their time configuring and tuning the product for the test. Most of the others present brought a compiler with them ;) (seriously!)
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The point is to catch criminals.
The point is to manufacture more criminals, then catch them.
(captcha: underway)
selling Osama masks :-)
See, the only reason I'm modded troll right now is because everyone that modded me has OBVIOUSLY never been on Camfrog.
Had they the EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE then I'd be sitting on top of an informative+funny mod combo.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
It is a good thing that they install more cameras, but a bad thing that only the government can see what they record. The images should be beamed to the internet in realtime for all to see.
And how easily does it cope with a new pair of sunglasses each day?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
The framing at the end of this article, insinuating that some Islamists are setting up a Big Brother like government that the seculars will be persecuted by, is absolutely absurd and reveals severe ignorance about Turkish history and politics. The Islamic party in Turkey is the democratic party. The seculars in Turkey are the army, and they follow an eery cult of personality around the country's first president, Mostafa Kemal Ataturk. These ultranationalist factions have orchestrated military coups against nearly every government come to power, democratically, in the past half a century (except this one!).
Finally, these are not your run-of-the-mill cave-dwelling fanatical fundamentalist Islamists. They're economic liberals and believe more in freedom of religion than the secular groups, which are closer to the fascist parties of WWI Europe than the free-thinking liberals we associate the term with in America.
I'm just saying, don't let the frame suggested by this article msinform you about Turkish affairs. Electronic surveillance is scary in Turkey because it'd be scary no matter who the fuck was doing it, not because some ultranationalist psychos on the Turkish right-wing (the "seculars") think they'll be persecuted (they control the army for Chrissake) by big, bad, bearded Muslims.
I doubt anyone is angry at technology.
I beg to differ, my grandfather hates his electric wheelchair.
teachings restraining freedoms can not be guarded behind the idea of freedom of thought. it is contradictory.
Read radical news here
who is the vendor for this solution?
An islamic revolution in Turkey? Lol. One of the finest joke i ever heard :) Turkish people is muslim, but do not mix that with any other muslim populations on the world. Things are different in Turkey, man. Go back your Arab country where the democracy, human rights, even elections do not exist :P