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Should We Just Call Dog Breeds a Different Species?

Jamie found an amusing bit this morning on Scientific American where the author proposes that dog breeds are different species. Now some of you might recoil when you hear this suggestion, but if you read the article to see why he makes this suggestion I suspect you'll crack a smile and appreciate the elegance of the solution.

18 of 497 comments (clear)

  1. Dogism by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know what's funny? Dogs know dogs. They can be big, small, tall, round, thin, with or without tails, brown, red, white, spotted, yellow, shaggy, short haired, long legged, squat, etc, etc, etc. There is a massive amount of variation on display within the dog family.

    But despite it all, dogs know dogs. Upon seeing another, they'll wag their tails or bark for a rotweiller the same as they would for a terrier. They'll all roam about in their little packs, somehow instinctively knowing they they naturally should.

    And yet, if I have a man with different skin colour, or even simply different clothing, other men will consider his life worth less than even the smallest dog.

    Makes you think.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
    1. Re:Dogism by frieko · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, but will you smell her butt?

      Wait, don't answer that.

    2. Re:Dogism by Jurily · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bah, I'd fuck a nice asian girl any day. What's your point?

      Some people here would fuck anything that moves. What's your point?

    3. Re:Dogism by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Social hierarchies in animals are just as dysfunctional as they are in humans. I saw some documentary where one of the younger dominant females kept taking food out of the mouth of one of the subordinates ones. It wasn't that she was particularly hungry because she got priority access to the best food. As far as anyone could tell she was doing because her status let her get away with it.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    4. Re:Dogism by Asic+Eng · · Score: 5, Funny
      What's your point?

      He's looking for a date, apparently.

    5. Re:Dogism by Retron · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You know what's funny? Dogs know dogs

      What's even funnier is that dogs know wolves.

      I'm lucky enough to volunteer at a wolf centre in southern England. At this time of year they're moulting like crazy and it's easy to pull of clumps of underfur from them.

      The fun starts if you give some to a dog owner and ask them to show it to their dogs.

      The last time I did that it made my friend's 4 dogs go nuts - one went very wide-eyed, another tried clambering over the guy to get it and the third begged for some. I've seen other reactions including frenzied barking and fear from other dogs.

      So it seems that despite most dogs never getting to see a wolf (at least here in the UK, we shot our last wolf in the late 1700s), they still know full well what one is.

      As an aside, dogs are amazingly different from wolves despite being 99.8% the same DNA wise. Only one season a year and permanent puppyhood - domestic dogs don't become adults, we've bred that out of them somehow. Wolves, on the other hand, change noticeably around 3 years of age. Dogs are also much, much better at picking up signals from people - and unlike wolves, they're always eager to please if bought up properly. A wolf'll only do something if it feels like it, or if it'll get something out of it!

      And an amusing anecdote to finish - we used to take our wolves out to county shows, as they're socialied and enjoyed meeting people. One morning at the Kent show we let the wolves into their mobile enclosure and they watched intently as some Rottweilers came over, along with their (big-mouthed) owners. The blokes were going on about how their dogs could "have" our wolves easily, yet both dogs cowered away when Duma, one of our soppier wolves with people, casually gazed at them, raised her lip soundlessly, showing impressive fangs. Those Rottweilers knew better than to come any closer, much to the chagrin of their owners!

    6. Re:Dogism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, but will you smell her butt?

      Wait, don't answer that.

      Smell it? I'd lick it!

    7. Re:Dogism by SpeZek · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hence the don't answer that.

    8. Re:Dogism by cartman94501 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I used to fuck anything that moved, but then I thought, "Why limit myself?" Movement is overrated.

    9. Re:Dogism by bitt3n · · Score: 5, Funny

      Some people here would fuck anything that moves. What's your point?

      Actually, I consider mobility to be a deal breaker. It makes it easier for them to get away.

    10. Re:Dogism by nutshell42 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, he's come to the right place.

      --
      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
  2. Intelligent Design by rshol · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just remember if you argue that dog breeds are different species, especially the case of the mastiff and chihuahua, or the teacup yorkie and newfoundland, these different species are verifiably the result of intelligent design. Selection was involved, but not natural selection.

  3. Biologists already use his criteria. by Ma8thew · · Score: 5, Informative

    Biologists already define a separate species as when two individuals cannot mate, be it due to genetics or mechanical or behavioural difficulties. The problem with dog breeds is that a Chihuahua can mate with a terrier, and a terrier can mate with a gun dog, and a gun dog can mate with the largest of dogs. Where would the author draw the line between species? There are a lot of cases like this in nature, and it is basically an arbitrary decision as to whether speciation has occurred. The whole premise of this article is essentially flawed, as it suggests that biologists have not already thought about these difficulties, when in fact this is basic pre-university biology.

  4. I don't even call them breeds by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 5, Funny

    Whenever someone tells me they have a dog, I ask them what make it is. Try it, the reaction is brilliant.

  5. Re:So what we're saying is... by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 5, Funny

    1) Creationists claim the science doesn't provide thorough enough proof of evolution
    2) Evolutionary biologists should fudge their results to re-define something as being proof
    3) ???
    4) Profit
    Something makes me think this scheme would just give creationists a big stick labelled "evolutionists fudge their results; it's all a load of cobblers" to beat the biologists with.

    If a Slashdot reader has evolved to the point where he has no sense of humour whatsoever and is therefore incapable of mating with female humans, does that make said Slashdot reader a new species?

    Something to ponder tonight.

    --

    People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
  6. And not entirely correct by StCredZero · · Score: 5, Informative

    When we observe Ring Species we are clearly catching mother nature red-handed in the act of speciation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species

    These things are freaky:

                    A--B--C--D--E--F--G--A

    Members of a ring species can interbreed with their immediate neighbors, but not with distant neighbors halfway around the ring. (So in my diagrom, A can interbreed with B and G, but not C, D, E, or F. Sometimes the ring develops a break, and becomes a line:

                    A--B--C--D--E--F--G

    Then to have a speciation event, all you need is another break in the line:

                    A--B--C

                    E--F--G

    There are ring species comprised of small creatures who only live in a small range of elevation around the side of a mountain, so their habitat literally looks like a small ring. Two well timed avalanches could be enough.

    1. Re:And not entirely correct by TrumpetPower! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It gets even better.

      You cannot produce viable offspring with a chimpanzee. Neither could your great-great-great-grandparents produce viable offspring with that chimpanzee’s great-great-great-grandparents. But, go back enough generations, and your nth-great-grandparents gave birth to an individual whose far-distant offspring was that chimpanzee. Pick any other two organisms, and the same holds — it’s just that you have to go a little farther back in time to find the last common ancestor between, say, a squid and a butterfly.

      We are all members of a single ring species that encompasses all of life on Earth. It’s just that the ring is separated by time, rather than geography or physiology.

      And now you know the nutshell definition of the Theory of Evolution.

      Cheers,

      b&

      --
      All but God can prove this sentence true.
  7. Re:Starting a war by EdZ · · Score: 5, Funny

    I suppose you could build some sort of multi-feline interferometer, and interpret the varying frequency of their mewing according to their individual proximity to objects.
    Assuming you're reasonably confident not to be bumping into the ceiling or falling down holes, "how many cats can lead blind people" would be 3. 2 would lead to blind spots, 4 or more would provide redundant overlap.