Slashdot Mirror
Where To Buy A Machine With Linux Pre-Installed
The Berkeley LUG has a neat aggregation of many different places where you can acquire a desktop, laptop, or even netbook with Linux pre-installed. The list starts with a link to Dell's Linux offering, includes many independent vendors, and many updates from user comments, almost all of whom seem to be drinking the Ubuntu kool-aid. "Over the last couple of years, Linux has come a long way in terms of hardware support, and these days it is relatively rare that an installation of ubuntu/fedora will be lacking any drivers for your machine. However, installing any OS can still sometimes be a tedious task and one that scares the wits out of the average computer user. And, for the expert users out there, it's just more fun to buy a computer with Linux already on it and not have to pay the Microsoft tax."
"And, for the expert users out there, it's just more fun to buy a computer with Linux already on it and not have to pay the Microsoft tax."
Actually, for the experts, it's more fun to build the computer themselves and install whatever they feel like.
I think the point is more that the cost of the OS is going $0 to Microsoft more than anything. If you don't like the default OS, just install your own. It's free either way.
Because, of course, not using Microsoft's Windows or Apple's Mac OS X isn't enough.
You need to use an obscure Linux distro or else you'll still be a mindless sheep that other Linux users will laugh at.
You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I'll be at Milliways if anyone needs me.
I have lived with three dudes over the past two years and they are all now running Ubuntu in one form or another having not even heard of any windows alternatives before. Simply seeing it work, being close to someone who can help when they come up against problems and experiencing the sheer breadth of free applications on offer is enough for many people to make the switch. Incidentally one of those guys didn't even own his own computer when I met him . . .
Only if it's a desktop. You're not gonna build your own netbook and have it be of any respectable quality.
I bought myself a Asus netbook with the Linux pre-install. It didn't last long and installed a different Linux distro which was not as childish and crippled as the pre-installed Linux version (not any Ubuntu flavour). Maybe there should be an option when buying machines for NO OS installed by default. It wouldn't prevent the manufacturer adding crapware for their Windows install CD's.
It would be interesting to know which OS would be more frustrating to the average user to install. Every Linux install I've done, it installed everything a typical install does in one go and needed one reboot (setting up SuperUser and user accounts). The last time I installed WinXP on my desktop I lost the will to live after 35 reboots to install the OS and countless other drivers which insisted on full reboots.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
There is also a comprehensive and international list of vendors which provide laptops, notebooks, PDAs and mobile phones with Linux pre-installed. This list is accompanied by a survey of laptop and notebook manufacturers which provide Linux pre-installed, a survey of mobile phones with Linux pre-installed and an overview of media players with Linux pre-installed (these manufacturers are marked with an asterisk).
If you don't like the default OS, just install your own.
But if you use the operating system that comes on the machine, it reassures you that the operating system will work OK with the hardware. I replaced Xandros with Ubuntu on my Eee PC 900, and I still have trouble with cloning the display and with audio after coming out of suspend.
Buy a server instead. These usually come with no operating system.
For example
Is that an example of no operating systems?
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
So far I've bought 2 Ubuntu machines from Dell and they absolutely rock! I bought a Dell Latitude and a Mini 9. They were both rock solid, isn't too OEMified (i.e. no crapware preinstalled).
I'm a huge Dell fan now, because they give me what I want!
Rah rah rah, go Dell! ;)
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
It's more about getting "clean" laptop without any OS (or proprietary one) installed and hardware compatibility with free OSes.
I'd love to see some vendor shipping laptops "Tested with Ubuntu, Fedora, NetBSD and OpenSolaris".
From my experience (had 3 laptops with Linux pre-installed so far - 2 with Linpus and one with Xandros!), I always had to switch to something else than what came with laptop. With Acer laptops it was easy - hardware was fairly standard. Other thing was with early version of Eee PC, that had all sorts of problems with drivers for almost a year until I could install "stock" Debian on it.
If I even got a laptop from Dell with Ubuntu, I would:
- re-partition and encrypt hard drive
- upgrade to something more recent than 8.04
That means I don't need a laptop with Linux pre-installed, but one without Windows, with fairly standard hardware. I think most of you here would agree with me.
Why not just get a Linux CD and install yourself. It's easy to install Linux and one could do it Trust me.
Famous last words.
You aren't going to be there if anything goes wrong.
I honestly tried to understand where in that blog it talks of making a netbook. i gave up. Note to EVERYONE: when linking to a blog (or elsewhere), link straight to the relevant post, not the front page.
I didn't know it was even possible to run Linux on a TRS-80. :)
Actually, this gets touchy sometimes.
I prefer that my clients buy their own equipment. That way they know I didn't inflate the price, they are the customer of record, and I don't carry the risk of buying hardware the the client backing out. I've gotten stuck with a few pieces of equipment because the client "changed their minds". That really doesn't work well on stuff purchased through eBay, but even with many vendors I'd have to pay a restocking fee.
We found a 3rd party vendor that was selling a Supermicro motherboard and chassis, assembled to spec with CPU, memory and drives. It's a nice machine. 8 core Opteron, 64Gb RAM, etc, etc. When the client put the order through, he asked "What operating system do you want?". I was already clear in that we were putting our preferred Linux distro on, but would be testing various RAID and filesystems, so he wasn't to have anything put on. They were very clear that the machine wouldn't support Linux. I went back to the spec, and checked on everything. There were no problem. They were insistent on selling him a Microsoft OS. They actually wrote it on the build sheet "Must use Microsoft OS". He was really concerned. Could this tech guy who's known all the answers so far know more than the vendor? Is he wasting a whole bunch of money on something that he can't use?
When it got here, I opened it up and verified all the parts. Then I booted it up with my Slamd64 CD, and installed. Right out of the box, it worked perfectly. Every device was identified and the drivers loaded. No problems at all. I know he was much happier when he got the call "The machine works great. We're migrating to it now. It will be online by the end of the weekend."
Had the customer not known any better, and we had given an option of Linux or Windows, he would have spent some good money on a Microsoft OS, because the vendor told him to.
I know the vendors view. They can make extra money on it. Why would I want to slow a nice fast machine down with a heavy GUI, when I can strip Linux down to bare bones and run as fast as possible?
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Deep linking when linking to an external website, is just good etiquette and stops me wasting time
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
Wait wait wait. One person said "You're not gonna build your own netbook and have it be of any respectable quality" and you say "I beg to differ" and offer a link as a counter example. Any reasonable person would assume your link would contain someone who did make their own netbook, because you didn't specify otherwise, and it was in response to a question about homemade netbooks. Instead of lashing out at other users,consider the possibility that your post was vague and cryptic.
In the UK, try: http://www.efficientpc.co.uk/
don't bother with Dell - once you've found a machine that you want, there's no way they're going to put linux on it unless you request an offline quote that means you get no discounts and can't do easy comparisons between different configurations. Or unless you go through their "linux portal" that makes everything more expensive.
Oh, and Dell will only sell you the most expensive possible version of the most expensive linux distribution unless you get one of their "toy" pink laptops from the 'home' section. (and who knows, they might give money to Microsoft on your behalf anyway)
How do you figure that? Last time I checked you save exactly $0.00 dollars by getting the Ubuntu over the Vista, at least on the Dell XPS I last looked at. So in this case if there is any savings from not going MSFT then YOU aren't the one seeing it.
As you can see here it is $1099 for EITHER Vista or Ubuntu. So why in hell would you WANT Ubuntu when you can get the Vista and then download the latest Ubuntu for $0.00 dollars and use the Vista License in a VM or to dual boot? While I am all for choice, this choice seems about as logical as saying "Hey Dell, you don't make enough money, here take that $50 you have to send Ballmer and put it in your pocket. On me pal.". Someone who is smart enough to run Linux as a day to day OS is smart enough to download and burn an .iso. Now when you get something for choosing Linux, like how the Asus would have a bigger drive? That I can see. This just seems stupid IMHO. Cue the Linux users labeling me troll because I dared to point out the Ubuntu deal is a ripoff at Dell.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
You aren't going to be there if anything goes wrong.
Neither is Microsoft nor the hardware vendors.
Years ago I bought a linux server from a company in Edmonton, and they seem to still be around. Their site is woefully out of date though.
http://www.harddata.com/
STFU about slashdot bias.
Microsoft LOSES market share if you install something else over top?
I would beg to differ -- all machines are still counted as Windows(tm) machines. This allows demonstration of the ABSOLUTE and CRUSHING numerical superiority of Windows.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
I thought we paid that tax EVEN IF we bought a Linux laptop.
The "Microsoft Tax" is one of those crazy ideas that clog the geek's mind -
all it really means is that the OEM Windows install makes your laptop a viable mass market product that will outsell Linux by 100 to 1.
All right, from now on I'll call it the "mandatory fee that you pay to microsoft when buying a computer regardless of your desire to use any microsoft product." Of course, these days it's not *strictly* true - you can buy a computer without the "mandatory fee that you pay to microsoft when buying a computer regardless of your desire to use any microsoft product"... just it's hard to do. Even many (most?) computers that you manage to buy without an OS or with some flavor of Linux pre-installed include the "mandatory fee that you pay to microsoft when buying a computer regardless of your desire to use any microsoft product." (I.E. Microsoft gets mad at vendors who try to sell PC's with no OS or Linux, on the basis that the users will probably pirate windows... and so many just include a windows license in the product price anyway).
You know what? Fuck you - "mandatory fee that you pay to microsoft when buying a computer regardless of your desire to use any microsoft product" is way too long for ordinary use, we'll just agree to call it the "Microsoft Tax" because that's the closest analogy that fits in a reasonable amount of space.
You need to use an obscure Linux distro or else you'll still be a mindless sheep that other Linux users will laugh at.
I use DARKSTAR Linux, you insen... wait, I'm the insensitive clod, you sheep!
How do you figure that? Last time I checked you save exactly $0.00 dollars by getting the Ubuntu over the Vista, at least on the Dell XPS I last looked at. So in this case if there is any savings from not going MSFT then YOU aren't the one seeing it.
Correct. As well as getting Windows OEM licenses dirt cheap in bulk for their machine, Dall and manufacturers like them also get a kick-back for each bit of extra "trail" software (such as AV tools and such) they include. If you don't take Windows they can provide McUsless AntiEverything 2012, so they don't get the kick-back for that software for your machine, and if these kick-backs in total as much as the few $ they pay for each Windows license (i.e. laptop.cost+window.cost-crap1.cost-crap2.cost == laptop.cost-ubuntu.cost) that means your machines costs them the same to send to you what-ever OS you select.
There is also the issue of extra returns for Linux machines if they make them cheaper. This actually happens, it isn't just FUD, though it doesn't happen for the reason that MS want you to believe (because Linux is defective) it is because the user has made a defective choice - they pick the cheaper option without doing any research then expect a refund because it won't play game-of-the-moment out of the box.
[after installing XP] I lost the will to live after 35 reboots to install the OS
Try doing that and watching it get Sasser'd twenty seconds after you plugged in the network cable :(
freegeek ( http://www.freegeek.org/ ) recycles PC's and sells them if they have some left-over.
Linux pre-installed.
Have to check if there is one where you live.
Stephan
http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
I forgot; there's a list of cities at
http://www.freegeek.org/about/intergalactic
* Free Geek Arkansas (Fayetteville, Arkansas)
* Free Geek Central Florida (Orlando, Florida)
* Free Geek Chicago (Chicago, Illinois)
* Free Geek Columbus (Columbus, Ohio)
* Free Geek Michiana (South Bend, Indiana area)
* Free Geek Twin Cities (Minneapolis-Saint Paul, Minnesota)
* Born Again Technologies (Murfreesboro, Tennessee)
* Free Geek Vancouver (Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada)
* Free Geek Providence (Providence, Rhode Island)
* The original Free Geek, often referred to as âoethe "Mothership". (Portland, Oregon)
Stephan
http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
Neither is Microsoft nor the hardware vendors.
I have been pricing refurbished 64 bit quad core Vista PCs from Dell and Tiger.
It's a calculated risk, of course.
But these systems come loaded. I can't imaging making any significant changes over the life of the hardware.
So it works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, it goes back.
I am not equipped or inclined to diagnose and repair a system level hardware problem or a system level software problem.
I think - in this - I am representative of the mass consumer market.
I believe Dell pays Cononical a small kickback for every Linux PC they sell for support. This would explain why the two systems cost the same, though I tend to agree with you on principal that it would be nice to be able to get the Linux variant for cheaper.
Also, last I checked, Microsoft's license terms don't allow you to run an OEM copy in a virtual instance (i.e. the license is tied to the hardware). If you want to run Vista in a virtual machine you'll need a retail boxed copy, or a volume license of some kind.
I think it's time we bump the return rate on Windows machines by taking back our new laptops a few times. I'm tired of seeing this argument. As of right now my preferred recommendation for malware becomes "take it back to the store and exchange it for one that doesn't have that problem".
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I don't agree with you, but you do have a point. You aren't spending less, but the problem with the microsoft tax isn't the money I spent. The problem is that the said money is going to microsoft.
When I buy a computer from Dell, I figure they're going to make some profit either way. If they make more profit by selling Linux to me, then maybe it's encouragement to sell more Linux machines. In any event, that money going to dell doesn't bother me. That same money going to microsoft does.
The other viewpoint here is that you shouldn't be paying that money because you aren't buying an operating system. This seems to be the one that you're taking. This being the case, there are other vendors where you don't buy the operating system (TFA mentions quite a few vendors -- check them out). Or you could build your own if you have the time to deal with it. It's a matter of taste, I imagine. Or budget.
So, in short, you have a good point, but there are other arguments to be made as well. :)
Try http://www.eurocom.com/ They sell Windozed laptops but you can buy one without an OS. Their base is in Ottawa. PA
*points to forums.gentoo.org*
They're nice and helpful over there. :)
I know no other way to put it in English (the free as in beer nonsense clarifies nothing frankly).
In Spanish it is very simple: "Linux no es gratuito, es libre".
My point is, when I buy Linux services I have full control over my data and support companies that roughly agree with my view of the world.
When somebody buys Microsoft, they are making business with a company that is unethical to say the least (cue for cascade of Slashdot histories about this) and that can (and has) screwed users over access to their own data.
The choice is clear, I made it 10 years ago. If Dell or others provide me with that choice, how they use their hard earned cash is frankly none of my business (well, not entirely, but in general that would be it).
Often people reply to this that one should use the best tool for the job, failing to notice that ethical aspects are also important when deciding which tool is best.
Most people will not allow a bad plumber, with a string of complaints anywhere near their shower or toilette, nevertheless give Microsoft carte blanche when it comes to the most important technology they may be using at home (and work).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
http://linuxpreloaded.com/
This is the reason we don't recommend to our clients that they do their own purchasing. If we purchase the hardware and configure it for them, we can take the responsibility for doing it wrong, and we also get to deal with the OEM on their behalf.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Normally I'd stay out of something like this. Obvious bias, etc. But out of curiosity, when was the last time you bought a Dell?
They don't come with the Microsoft standard-issue hologrammed disc for Windows... they come with a blue-label disc. Said blue-label disc, however, installs a clean, vanilla image of MS Windows Vista (the XP disc is green). The only difference between the blue disc and the original hologrammed disc, aside from the holograms, is that the blue disc contains the version that's tied to the hardware and doesn't ask for your CoA.
If you choose to install the crapware that comes pre-installed, they provide you discs to allow you to do that. If you choose not to, they've been kind enough to put all the drivers on another disc so you don't have to risk accidentally installing something you don't want. And yes, the blue discs can be used to repair an existing installation of Windows without wiping anything.
No, you can't take your disc and use it to install Windows on another computer. You haven't paid for the retail version that'd let you do that. But it's not a "restore" disc that'll wipe out the entire machine, unless you tell it to, and even then, it won't bring it back to factory default, it'll bring it to vanilla Windows.
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
Why would a mass market laptop need to be available ONLY with windows pre-installed? The hardware can be mass market and 99/100 can be sold with Windows.
But why should that imply whatsoever that I can't buy 1/100 of those mass-produced laptops with Linux pre-installed and a lower purchase price?
There is a list of local Linux shops on webapps.ubuntu.com/marketplace/
*disclaimer* I work at one of them, called caffe*nix. If you're in the Greater Toronto Area in Canada, we're a friendly neighbourhood Linux store.
caffe*nix can be found here - www.caffenix.com
Actually, I just ordered a Mini 9 from Dell. I checked the prices and sure enough I saved $40 by getting Ubuntu instead of XP.
Funny thing is though, I called in the order to talk to a real person about different discounts (epp, sales, etc.), and she tried her *darnedest* to get me to *not* get that laptop! First she wanted to make sure I "had a *real* laptop" (yes, that's a quote!), then she asked what I would be using it for.
ME: Oh, you know it's a netbook, so...the Internet.
HER: Oh, you won't be typing papers at all or using Excel or anything? Because you need Windows to run MS Office
ME: No...it's Ubuntu, it comes with OpenOffice, I don't need MS Office.
HER: But you can't open word or excel without windows...
ME: Yes, I can edit and create MS Office documents. Move along, please.
Next, she urged me to upgrade the RAM.
HER: And would you like to go ahead and get the 64GB hard drive [even though it's actually solid state] and 2 GB of RAM? This is a small laptop and is very hard to upgrade.
ME: Actually, I've seen the videos online. It takes 2 screws and you just pop off a little lid and the extra ram or the new SSD just pops right in.
Then, of course, she wanted to sell me the latest gizmos and gadgets they have. No, thanks. Finally, when the build is complete, I get the most hilarious thing EVER:
HER: Ok, almost done here, one last question. Right now, we have a special on McAfee Antivirus and it's only $X/month and it will protect your system from...[I cut her off here]
ME: Would you like to tell me A) how McAfee is going to run in Linux and B) what viruses I would be protected from? I'll go ahead and answer that: McAfee doesn't even run on Linux, so the question is moot. What's my total?
I'm guessing that even if they sell McAfee and have to give a refund, they'll still charge people for that first month, or even if they give the refund on that, then McAfee gives dell a kickback for so many licenses sold.