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Where To Buy A Machine With Linux Pre-Installed
The Berkeley LUG has a neat aggregation of many different places where you can acquire a desktop, laptop, or even netbook with Linux pre-installed. The list starts with a link to Dell's Linux offering, includes many independent vendors, and many updates from user comments, almost all of whom seem to be drinking the Ubuntu kool-aid. "Over the last couple of years, Linux has come a long way in terms of hardware support, and these days it is relatively rare that an installation of ubuntu/fedora will be lacking any drivers for your machine. However, installing any OS can still sometimes be a tedious task and one that scares the wits out of the average computer user. And, for the expert users out there, it's just more fun to buy a computer with Linux already on it and not have to pay the Microsoft tax."
I thought it was more fun to watch your computer compile your latest ebuild list...a preinstalled environment would remove the l33tness that so many linux users thrive for.
"And, for the expert users out there, it's just more fun to buy a computer with Linux already on it and not have to pay the Microsoft tax."
Actually, for the experts, it's more fun to build the computer themselves and install whatever they feel like.
And, for the expert users out there, it's just more fun to buy a computer with Linux already on it and not have to pay the Microsoft tax.
I thought we paid that tax EVEN IF we bought a Linux laptop.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
Because, of course, not using Microsoft's Windows or Apple's Mac OS X isn't enough.
You need to use an obscure Linux distro or else you'll still be a mindless sheep that other Linux users will laugh at.
You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I'll be at Milliways if anyone needs me.
I have lived with three dudes over the past two years and they are all now running Ubuntu in one form or another having not even heard of any windows alternatives before. Simply seeing it work, being close to someone who can help when they come up against problems and experiencing the sheer breadth of free applications on offer is enough for many people to make the switch. Incidentally one of those guys didn't even own his own computer when I met him . . .
Only if it's a desktop. You're not gonna build your own netbook and have it be of any respectable quality.
I bought myself a Asus netbook with the Linux pre-install. It didn't last long and installed a different Linux distro which was not as childish and crippled as the pre-installed Linux version (not any Ubuntu flavour). Maybe there should be an option when buying machines for NO OS installed by default. It wouldn't prevent the manufacturer adding crapware for their Windows install CD's.
It would be interesting to know which OS would be more frustrating to the average user to install. Every Linux install I've done, it installed everything a typical install does in one go and needed one reboot (setting up SuperUser and user accounts). The last time I installed WinXP on my desktop I lost the will to live after 35 reboots to install the OS and countless other drivers which insisted on full reboots.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
There is also a comprehensive and international list of vendors which provide laptops, notebooks, PDAs and mobile phones with Linux pre-installed. This list is accompanied by a survey of laptop and notebook manufacturers which provide Linux pre-installed, a survey of mobile phones with Linux pre-installed and an overview of media players with Linux pre-installed (these manufacturers are marked with an asterisk).
If you don't like the default OS, just install your own.
But if you use the operating system that comes on the machine, it reassures you that the operating system will work OK with the hardware. I replaced Xandros with Ubuntu on my Eee PC 900, and I still have trouble with cloning the display and with audio after coming out of suspend.
It looks like Dell.ca isn't selling laptops anymore. For reasons (in no particular order) of patriotism, currency and hardware/warranty hassles, I'm interested in buying a laptop with working suspend-to-ram from a Canadian company...does anyone have any suggestions? (I know about the netbooks, but I'm wondering if there's anything else.)
Carousel is a lie!
http://system76.com/index.php http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=anavml http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html
Buy a server instead. These usually come with no operating system.
For example
Is that an example of no operating systems?
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Why do some people here like to still perpetuate the meme of a Microsoft tax.
The fact is that the only real taxes are those levied by the government and nobody else. If you avoid this âoemicrosoft tax" nothing happens to you. If you do it against the government its called tax evasion and you can go to jail for it.
Please, stop the FUD now. I thought were people were against it if its done by Microsoft, but you are doing the same thing here.
So far I've bought 2 Ubuntu machines from Dell and they absolutely rock! I bought a Dell Latitude and a Mini 9. They were both rock solid, isn't too OEMified (i.e. no crapware preinstalled).
I'm a huge Dell fan now, because they give me what I want!
Rah rah rah, go Dell! ;)
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
It's more about getting "clean" laptop without any OS (or proprietary one) installed and hardware compatibility with free OSes.
I'd love to see some vendor shipping laptops "Tested with Ubuntu, Fedora, NetBSD and OpenSolaris".
From my experience (had 3 laptops with Linux pre-installed so far - 2 with Linpus and one with Xandros!), I always had to switch to something else than what came with laptop. With Acer laptops it was easy - hardware was fairly standard. Other thing was with early version of Eee PC, that had all sorts of problems with drivers for almost a year until I could install "stock" Debian on it.
If I even got a laptop from Dell with Ubuntu, I would:
- re-partition and encrypt hard drive
- upgrade to something more recent than 8.04
That means I don't need a laptop with Linux pre-installed, but one without Windows, with fairly standard hardware. I think most of you here would agree with me.
Why not just get a Linux CD and install yourself. It's easy to install Linux and one could do it Trust me.
Famous last words.
You aren't going to be there if anything goes wrong.
Sure, they're mostly servers, but they do have Workstations. They'll even sell you Windows if you want it. http://pogolinux.com/
Heh, the US has it easy. Try finding anything preinstalled with Linux in Bulgaria.
I honestly tried to understand where in that blog it talks of making a netbook. i gave up. Note to EVERYONE: when linking to a blog (or elsewhere), link straight to the relevant post, not the front page.
Actually, this gets touchy sometimes.
I prefer that my clients buy their own equipment. That way they know I didn't inflate the price, they are the customer of record, and I don't carry the risk of buying hardware the the client backing out. I've gotten stuck with a few pieces of equipment because the client "changed their minds". That really doesn't work well on stuff purchased through eBay, but even with many vendors I'd have to pay a restocking fee.
We found a 3rd party vendor that was selling a Supermicro motherboard and chassis, assembled to spec with CPU, memory and drives. It's a nice machine. 8 core Opteron, 64Gb RAM, etc, etc. When the client put the order through, he asked "What operating system do you want?". I was already clear in that we were putting our preferred Linux distro on, but would be testing various RAID and filesystems, so he wasn't to have anything put on. They were very clear that the machine wouldn't support Linux. I went back to the spec, and checked on everything. There were no problem. They were insistent on selling him a Microsoft OS. They actually wrote it on the build sheet "Must use Microsoft OS". He was really concerned. Could this tech guy who's known all the answers so far know more than the vendor? Is he wasting a whole bunch of money on something that he can't use?
When it got here, I opened it up and verified all the parts. Then I booted it up with my Slamd64 CD, and installed. Right out of the box, it worked perfectly. Every device was identified and the drivers loaded. No problems at all. I know he was much happier when he got the call "The machine works great. We're migrating to it now. It will be online by the end of the weekend."
Had the customer not known any better, and we had given an option of Linux or Windows, he would have spent some good money on a Microsoft OS, because the vendor told him to.
I know the vendors view. They can make extra money on it. Why would I want to slow a nice fast machine down with a heavy GUI, when I can strip Linux down to bare bones and run as fast as possible?
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
The $10/£10 you pay for MS is often trumped by the $30/£30 they add to the cost as it costs them more to support it, and that is ignoring the £20 that companies pay to preinstall crap on your PC). Don't worry about Microsoft getting rich off your £10, they don't care about the money from the home market, just the market share (which they loose if you uninstall it anyway).
Decide if you want full floss (ati/intel/atheros) or are willing to use proprietary (ati/nvidea) to get better performance, then find the best PC you can get for your price. If your looking at desktops then do yourself a favour and build it, it is literally plug by colors now, as it cut the price in half.
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
Deep linking when linking to an external website, is just good etiquette and stops me wasting time
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
Wait wait wait. One person said "You're not gonna build your own netbook and have it be of any respectable quality" and you say "I beg to differ" and offer a link as a counter example. Any reasonable person would assume your link would contain someone who did make their own netbook, because you didn't specify otherwise, and it was in response to a question about homemade netbooks. Instead of lashing out at other users,consider the possibility that your post was vague and cryptic.
The article links to a local Ubuntu-friendly retailer ZaReason. Now I'm all about buying from local businesses, but given some of the text on their pages, I'm wondering if these guys got a little too "Berkeley," if you know what I mean:
SD/MMC slot -- download photos, anything from your phone (if it holds an SD card), your printer... extreme usability
Are they trying to tell me that I can "download a printer" or "download photos from my printer" ? I dunno about them, but usually photos come out of my printer, not the other way 'round.
coding is life
In the UK, try: http://www.efficientpc.co.uk/
don't bother with Dell - once you've found a machine that you want, there's no way they're going to put linux on it unless you request an offline quote that means you get no discounts and can't do easy comparisons between different configurations. Or unless you go through their "linux portal" that makes everything more expensive.
Oh, and Dell will only sell you the most expensive possible version of the most expensive linux distribution unless you get one of their "toy" pink laptops from the 'home' section. (and who knows, they might give money to Microsoft on your behalf anyway)
You aren't going to be there if anything goes wrong.
Neither is Microsoft nor the hardware vendors.
Except the hardware vendors have already tested and certified their various parts against the Windows OS so it will work. The hardware vendors also have support lines to help you. Good luck getting anything but snide comments about RTFM if you needed helping getting something working under a Linux distro you installed yourself.
Yet, on Dell and HP's sites, it's easy to buy a server without any operating system. In fact, this seems to be the default on at least some of their servers.
OS choices offered by Dell and/or HP include SLES, RHEL, Windows, XenServer, ESXi, and Solaris.
You need to use an obscure Linux distro or else you'll still be a mindless sheep that other Linux users will laugh at.
I use DARKSTAR Linux, you insen... wait, I'm the insensitive clod, you sheep!
[after installing XP] I lost the will to live after 35 reboots to install the OS
Try doing that and watching it get Sasser'd twenty seconds after you plugged in the network cable :(
freegeek ( http://www.freegeek.org/ ) recycles PC's and sells them if they have some left-over.
Linux pre-installed.
Have to check if there is one where you live.
Stephan
http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
I bought one of the first $200 Everex gPC boxes (reviewed here), and although their linux distro was awful at that time (it was a prerelease version), the hardware has worked fine. I put ubuntu on it, and it's a great machine.
However, they seem to have recurring problems with production and/or distribution channels. They were originally selling them through Walmart; you'd order it via Walmart's web site, and it would be shipped to your local store for you to pick up. Now Walmart no longer has them. If you go to everex.com, they proudly tell you that their latest version, the gPC3, is available for $199. But of the two links they offer for buying it, neither actually works. One is to newegg, which lists it as a "Deactivated Item." The other is a link to a nonexistent page on everexstore.com.
Unfortunately, this seems to be the recurring pattern. Fry's sold the $180-250 Great Quality machines, then stopped. Sears had the Mirus with Freespire (ugh) for $200, but now they only sell it with Windows. Now the gPC seems to be headed down the same road. It seems like lots of people get this great idea of selling a linux box for $200, but nobody seems to be able to sustain it as a business model. It probably doesn't help that they all put the world's lousiest linux distros on their machines, instead of just going with Ubuntu, which would be the sane, obvious choice these days.
Find free books.
You could one from CAI, if you are in the non profit sector.
davecb5620@gmail.com
I forgot; there's a list of cities at
http://www.freegeek.org/about/intergalactic
* Free Geek Arkansas (Fayetteville, Arkansas)
* Free Geek Central Florida (Orlando, Florida)
* Free Geek Chicago (Chicago, Illinois)
* Free Geek Columbus (Columbus, Ohio)
* Free Geek Michiana (South Bend, Indiana area)
* Free Geek Twin Cities (Minneapolis-Saint Paul, Minnesota)
* Born Again Technologies (Murfreesboro, Tennessee)
* Free Geek Vancouver (Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada)
* Free Geek Providence (Providence, Rhode Island)
* The original Free Geek, often referred to as âoethe "Mothership". (Portland, Oregon)
Stephan
http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
Aha, after posting the above, I found out that Zareason sells the Everex gPC3. I wonder why the heck Everex's web page doesn't link to Zareason, and links instead to two nonfunctional retail channels??
Find free books.
The problem with many Linux versions of desktops or laptops is that the Windows version is almost always a better deal. The computer you point at:
Linux, $20 cheaper
BUT
Linux, 1/2 the hard drive (ie 4GB vs. 8GB)
Linux, you don't get $30 off peripherals
Up to recently they always found a way to make Linux a worse deal financially. I think they may have fixed that in the States but obviously not in Canada.
Well then you're simply not willing to do the necessary work to understand people's references
If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
D'oh, now I feel like a complete idiot, with two replies-to-self. Zareason doesn't actually have them in stock.
Find free books.
Neither is Microsoft nor the hardware vendors.
I have been pricing refurbished 64 bit quad core Vista PCs from Dell and Tiger.
It's a calculated risk, of course.
But these systems come loaded. I can't imaging making any significant changes over the life of the hardware.
So it works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, it goes back.
I am not equipped or inclined to diagnose and repair a system level hardware problem or a system level software problem.
I think - in this - I am representative of the mass consumer market.
I think it's time we bump the return rate on Windows machines by taking back our new laptops a few times. I'm tired of seeing this argument. As of right now my preferred recommendation for malware becomes "take it back to the store and exchange it for one that doesn't have that problem".
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Is functionally equivalent to book publishers opposing the sale of blank paper.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
For example, I have used Unix in one form or another for 25 years. I do most of my work from the command line.
...and therefore you're probably quite willing and capable of installing whatever distro you like.
As a techie, odds are, that the first thing you'll do with a new PC is zap the hard drive and re-install everything the way you want anyway.
The only benefit to such people of getting a machine with Linux pre-installed is some assurance that maybe, just maybe, the supplier has the nous to only use components with reasonable Linux support.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
*points to forums.gentoo.org*
They're nice and helpful over there. :)
I think you have a problem communicating with your clients. I was thinking that as I read your 2nd sentence.
Of course, you should be upfront with the charges for the equipment. If you don't charge extra for the equipment (and I don't think it's a problem if you do because you're going through the trouble of sourcing it), just say, "These folks offer this piece for $100". Let them know that it's off eBay and they can't return it. Let them know if it's store bought, there's a restocking fee that they're responsible for. If they change their mind, they'll be stuck with those charges.
Tell them that you research equipment all the time and if they think they can find a better price, you're happy for them to buy it and you'll remember to start checking their place since they have a cheaper item than what you could find. I doubt they'll go through all that trouble.
It's the same basic idea when they had the "it has to be run on Microsoft" bit.
If they're hiring someone to do this, most of the time, the less questions you ask of them is better after you find out what they think they want. Make corrections since you're the paid professional. Why pay 5 grand for a super computer that'll turn off their lights when they'd be happier with a Clapper. You know what you're doing. Others can fake it and most clients won't know the difference.
You need to figure out how much responsibility they want in the decision but don't overpressure them because you're the paid professional.
In a bad car analogy, you're a mechanic. You call up and say the transmission is shot. It's a Ford, and you can rebuild a Ford tranny. Or they can pay extra and get a new Ford tranny. Of course, Ford also offers a heavy duty tranny. And Acme has a high end tranny that costs even more than the high end Ford tranny. And because you overshare, Slackme offers a low end tranny that's worse than the above.
Some will ask you to drain and change the fluid and will bitch when that doesn't work. For some it's buy a new tranny. Some want rebuild one. Some want an OEM new tranny. Some want the Acme, some want the Slackme.
Most want what works best for them (that's the important part). They don't know shit about transmissions so you have to find out what's best for them and let them know. Sure, there's a few cheapskates that want the fluid changed and will bitch to every last man on the earth that you ripped them off by changing the fluid then also charging them to rebuild the tranny because they're idiots about some things. Never forget the idiot factor but don't live by the idiot factor. Then there's others who are selling the car and have no problems with the Slackme transmission that'll blow up in 5,000 miles.
You ask a few rough questions to figure out how much input they want. But for many clients, it's just fix it and they don't care about every detail.
It's back to you're the trained professional. To me, it sounds like you misread your clients and offer too many options. It's a weird thing when you know all the details but if they knew the details, they wouldn't be calling you.
But what do I know? I walked away from working with computers a few years ago.
riding round the world on an old motorcycle
As a linux user for 5yrs (and ex PC design engineer) - I really cannot see linux becoming the OS of choice of the masses (i.e. your dumb neighbor or the kooky lady in accounting). The Windows XP environment is what they know (more or less).
They are not motivated or driven to learn a "new way" of doing things. As an IT guy I easily bounce between XP - OS X - and linux ... my normal friends are running XP and a few OS X.
And both Apple and M$ learned that making wholesale GUI changes generally upsets the masses who just want to get shit done - no retraining.
My take is someone needs to do a truly seam-less integration of XP / Windows 7 running as a virtual OS (ala parallels or virtual box) - where linux enhances security - monitors the data stream for viruses - and of course is there to be used a second OS (and of course to repair XP etc).
Linux ... silently guarding average users from the crap M$ churns out. Now that would sell.
And don't mention WINE -- I said integrated - seamless - invisible.
Its not the years, its the mileage
I know no other way to put it in English (the free as in beer nonsense clarifies nothing frankly).
In Spanish it is very simple: "Linux no es gratuito, es libre".
My point is, when I buy Linux services I have full control over my data and support companies that roughly agree with my view of the world.
When somebody buys Microsoft, they are making business with a company that is unethical to say the least (cue for cascade of Slashdot histories about this) and that can (and has) screwed users over access to their own data.
The choice is clear, I made it 10 years ago. If Dell or others provide me with that choice, how they use their hard earned cash is frankly none of my business (well, not entirely, but in general that would be it).
Often people reply to this that one should use the best tool for the job, failing to notice that ethical aspects are also important when deciding which tool is best.
Most people will not allow a bad plumber, with a string of complaints anywhere near their shower or toilette, nevertheless give Microsoft carte blanche when it comes to the most important technology they may be using at home (and work).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Building and installing a computer are grunt tasks, that require lesser expertise.
My time is expensive, I want a machine ready to go where I can do the real interesting bits.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I am in the process of reviewing some of their hardware. Their laptops, desktops, and servers all come pre-installed with Ubuntu 9.04. Go to www.system76.com and check them out!
nature loves variety::society hates it get your variety at http://www.monkeypantz.net
On the equipment that I've been stuck with, it's usually been that they couldn't really afford it, but I (obviously) don't have access to their financials. We discussed the problem, what they needed. I came back to them with a price tag, and they agreed. Since I wasn't on their site when they agreed, I couldn't just collect a check in advance. When the equipment showed up and I was ready to deliver, they couldn't afford it. As it turns out, these are usually the companies that are usually a few weeks or months from closing the doors, but they put on a great act until the.
For the recent customer who purchased the server, we discussed options. The server I suggested and gave him the link to purchase, it was only 16Gb, but I had discussed previous similar projects that I had worked with and since those already had 16Gb (and the price was right), he went for 64Gb. The confusion with the OS was all because of the vendor he was purchasing from.
I've run into that too. I've bought a lot of servers over the years from different places. One place was very very insistent to put a MS OS on it, but since I wouldn't pay for it, it was the MS Server 2003 Demo. I may have the name wrong, but it's the one that dies in like 30 days after the install unless you pay for the full version. I only knew because I saw NTFS partitions, and one machine I turned on but was distracted and didn't get the boot CD in before it came up into Windows. In those cases, where I'm doing the ordering, and I'm very clear that I don't want any OS, they're just pushing MS products on me. I'd mention the vendor specifically, but I honestly don't remember.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
I think it's time we bump the return rate on Windows machines by taking back our new laptops a few times. I'm tired of seeing this argument. As of right now my preferred recommendation for malware becomes "take it back to the store and exchange it for one that doesn't have that problem".
Amen to that. If capitalists vote with their dollars, and the screwed-up market we live in makes the Windows+crapware model appear to be less expensive than the linux model, then we the market have an obligation to respond by pushing some of the real costs of owning the Crap 6.1 model back onto the distributors and manufacturers.
I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
http://linuxpreloaded.com/
But where can I buy a machine with Free|Net|Open BSD preinstalled? I don't wanna pay the Linux tax....!
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality;..."
But is it cheaper? There should be no Windows Tax (Per Processor License), but experience in the past has shown some of these machines to actually be more expensive then the Windows equivalent hardware from the same vendor.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I bought a Dell XPS configured with Ubuntu and immediately put Fedora on it. It works really well. There was a hardware problem with the display and they arranged for a guy to come to my house and fix it. I have fought with drivers for laptops to run Linux many times and it is a PITA. ndiswrapper, etc etc. No need for any of that with this machine. Did I mention it works really well?
On the Dell site look for "open source pcs" - it's not that prominent but you can find it.
If you can call what they give you windows. If there was a standard vanilla MS Windows installer disk I might agree with you. But no, there is only the restore disk that wipes out your whole machine. If you want a vanilla install, you're still going to have to hash out that 200 or so dollars. Is that really money saved?
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
What does that have to do with freegeek?
Stephan
http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
It really isn't that hard...
Even if you want to retain your windows, all you have to do is defragment, partition, and install. Debian (and I'm assuming Ubuntu and others) will recognize windows and add it to menu.lst.
Actually it's 1/sqrt(2) living cat + 1/sqrt(2) dead cat = 1 cat
entropy happens
It's not a sustainable business model because MS is bribing people.
$ make available
LinuxCertified is a vendor that sells laptops (and computers, I think). I just bought one from them -- they sell Windows (you pay a little extra for it) or any major distro of Linux. (FC, Ubuntu, etc.)
They guarantee that their installations of Linux will work with the hardware they use.
The real attractive part, for me, was the price point. Since they have the laptops custom built, they aren't bound to the contracts that larger companies (Dell, Gateway, etc.) are. I spent $1485 (after shipping) for a T9300 (2.5 GHz with 6MB cache), 4GB RAM, 320GB 7200RPM hdd, 512MB NVidia card, and 15.4" WSXGA (1680x1050) display. Dell and even Lenovo/Thinkpad could not even get CLOSE to those specs at comparable prices. (If you're interested, the laptop I got was the LC2430S)
Customer Service at LC was way better than Dell, too. (the benefit of dealing with a small company) :)
I don't mean this to be an ad for LC or anything, I'm just really pleased with my experience with them so far.
I know European posters are a minority, but I wonder whether anybody has a better list than the hopelessly outdated TuxMobile one. Googling around has provided me with a couple of resellers in Germany, four in the UK and three in France. The French should have it easier, because there you can ask to take Win down and lower the price of the box (consumer protection legislation), if Sarkozy didn't change that already, to help his pals... Come on folks, any European vendors' list?
The Force actually is with me.
This is the reason we don't recommend to our clients that they do their own purchasing. If we purchase the hardware and configure it for them, we can take the responsibility for doing it wrong, and we also get to deal with the OEM on their behalf.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
That's a pity, because those looked like cheap, just-enough-for-mom-and-dad machines, which at $200 is a great deal.
There's an utterly glorious refurbished junk shop here in the centre of Melbourne, which throws out headless 3 Ghz ATX boxes for $200 AUD. However, the only way they can afford to perform such magic is without pre-installing Windows.
When I last bought one, the guy who sold it to me warned me that there wasn't going to be an OS on it, to which I answered that it was going to have Linux on it anywayz, to which he said fine. (Although it will now most likely get FreeBSD)
Getting machines without Windows is only a problem if you insist on buying them from Dell or other similarly evil places. I suppose the poor corporations don't really have much choice for what they want, but I've never bought a prebuilt computer from an OEM, and never will. Parts give me complete control, at every level...and that includes the operating system.
With apologies to Michael Dell, but I've known for years that you are wholly 0wned by Microsoft; and I prefer freedom.
If you can't install Linux using a live cd Graphical Installer then you really shouldn't even be on slashdot lol.
Well. Sometimes. Normally, OS installs goes without a hitch (either flavor), but I've had both windows and linux installs fail horribly.
My favorite failed windows was a machine (I still have it) which had a very obscure SATA disk (well, intel, standard chipset from ASUS ;) ) that windows could not grog out of the box. That was ok, because I had a CD with the driver. Unfortunately, windows could only install from a CD, not read a driver CD... or something like that. I asked a windows friend about how to do it, and he lost me about the slipstreaming process. I did try, but in the end, I just gave up. Yeah, so windows wasn't so important for me.
Linux failed for me once because the CD drive (and old IDE affair) couldn't be read during the 2nd stage because the SATA controller driver lied and said it could control the IDE CD. The IDE driver worked, but was loaded later and politely let the SATA driver do it's thing. And yes, there was a boot parameter to fix it, but.. I just bought a SATA CD-drive. The old one was slow as molasses anyway.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
Wikipedia's your friend. Minimal work is required not to suck at teh internets.
What kind of power user leaves the built-in OS?
It's usually a customized version of vista riddled with crapware.
A lot of folks in our data center get them from pogolinux.com. I know they have various flavors of linux but I can't speak directly to service or support/ etc.
are a very good thing. Too many vendors are still using Linux to attempt to deliver a fixed-function 'websurf and office app only' netappliance experience that there is no known market for outside the imaginations of Yet Another Generation of Marketdroids. Personally, I see 'positive' reviews of Linux netbooks that start with "after I replaced the OEM OS with Ubuntu" as evidence of EPIC FAIL on the software side of OEM netbook vendors... people generally don't replace OSs which deliver satisfactory performance.
Given driver support, an ordinary Linux install on a netbook is just like any other Linux install, open the install wizard, set a few things, find something else to do for quite a while, loading the OS files on a netbook SSD takes a long time.
Unfortunately, if you like your hardware warranty, you can't do this on most netbooks. So I installed Kubuntu Jaunty to a flash card living in the card reader of my Eee PC900. Here's how I did it, part II of the article refers to customizing Ubuntu-Gnome-Intrepid using tweaks that aren't needed with Kubuntu Jaunty. This is probably not for n00bs, the first step is installing Sun Virtualbox on your desktop Linux box so you can install the OS to a flash card that shows up in Virtualbox as the only available HD if you've set it up correctly.
Having a vendor willing to pre-install it and back it up via warranty saves quite a lot of time and work. It took me weeks to figure out how to make the alternative install to flash card work so I could write it up for publication.
Tech Public Policy stuff
There is a list of local Linux shops on webapps.ubuntu.com/marketplace/
*disclaimer* I work at one of them, called caffe*nix. If you're in the Greater Toronto Area in Canada, we're a friendly neighbourhood Linux store.
caffe*nix can be found here - www.caffenix.com
if you run gnu/Linux, and you want more people to run gnu/Linux or less people to run Windoze, for whatever reason, how does it benefit you to rip on a distro you don't care for, when you know damn well it works better than your favored distro for many people whose needs differ from your own? Doesn't that fragment and defeat the movement? If you cause fewer people to use Linux because the other distros are inaccessible and Ubuntu is for crazy Kool-aid drinkers, then there is less demand for new drivers for Linux (which benefit everybody), new commercial software for Linux, game development for Linux, wine development, etc., etc., etc....
So there must be a really good, overriding reason, why less people using Linux is somehow GOOD for open source and Linux, as long as those people would have been using the "wrong" distro, and I'd really like to know what that reason is.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
It's a pain when you are dealing with inexperienced sales guys. Of course in that situation you do know far more than the vendor.
That's possible. I don't know. It's also possible that it's not a sustainable business model because too many people return the computers. Returns are very expensive to process, and the profit margin on a $200 desktop machine is razor-thin.
Find free books.
To me the MS tax is when you go to a public and open website to find they have used proprietary systems requiring proprietary client software that is not available on clients other than the one MS provides.
For example - Office Live - requires the execution of windows binaries to install the Windows only client software for this cloud service. If you share documents with this, all of your intended audience will have had to pay their MS tax to view the content.
MS Office Communicator - it has a web gateway, and claim to support Firefox and Safari on multiple platforms, but what you can't do is join meetings or make phone calls through the web client. You have to have installed the Windows only communicator client to fully use the software. Therefore all your employees using this form their homes will have to make sure they have paid their MS tax and have at least one windows device at home.
Want to view content encrusted with Windows Media DRM - Have to run Windows MediaPlayer and have paid your MS tax.
iTunes is nearly as bad, but at least you have the choice of Windows or OS X, but as Apple owes it's survival this century to MS, it's really just the MS tax again.
The Apple Tax - It is still cheaper to buy a Macbook (even at NZ$1000 more than the closest PC competitor with the same disk CPU and RAM) than to pick up a PC and add AV software and firewall software, and renew that for the next 3-5 years. If you buy now you will only get Vista. Win7 is expected to be approx NZ$500 for a premium upgrade just for the OS. Office2010 likely to be at least NZ$300 or more. Apple Offer the "Box set" OS X 10.5.6, iLife09 and iWork09 for just NZ$419 upgrade from any previous OS X version. http://store.apple.com/nz/product/MB997Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDAzOA&mco=MzA3MTE3Ng
It's still a tax though 8) Just less over the lifetime of the machine. 8)
The Gentoo guys are quite often excellent and their wiki was great until the unfortunate incident...
You weren't trying to make a joke were you?
I totally agree with "Neither is Microsoft..." but even though it is a PITA to call manufacturers sometimes they really pull through and you wonder why you didn't call earlier.
Dell Precision Open-Source Workstations with Linux: http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd Please Dell, Bring these to Canada.
Oh no, I was not trying to make a joke. I guess that a moderator had a different experience from mine? YMMV, I guess. I've been using Gentoo since 1.4. The installation guide is ffin' great, IMO.
I'm still sad about the loss of the Gentoo Wiki. I really should help flesh out the new one...
"Actually, for the experts, it's more fun to build the computer themselves and install whatever they feel like."
Actually, for this expert, it's a lot less annoying to buy a computer with the pre-installed OS that I want, and not HAVE to play sysadmin both at home and at work. Thus the reason I only buy system with a flavor of unix pre-installed. (which tends to mean a Mac, or something that runs vendor-supported ubuntu)
Why not each and every Laptop vendors are offering Linux OS as an option to their each and every model restricting the users to use the crapy Windows Vista ? The consumer must have an option to select the OS for each model comes from the manufacturer. We have very limited model from Dell/HP which comes with Linux pre-installed, rather they MUST give an option for Linux for EACH AND EVERY model.
Sounds like it's time for a new third party vendor. I heard about Silicon Mechanics at OSCon; I don't know if they have what your clients need at prices they'll be happy with, but they'll never push Windows!
(I have no experience with the company, they just sound good to me.)
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$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Squirrel!
I recently purchased a new laptop for myself. I spent a good few weeks talking to lots of retailers - including Dell - about getting it without Windows pre-installed. Linux installed was preferable but no OS was also an option that I would accept. None of the suppliers that I talked to would do this at all until I came across Efficient PC, who not only did exactly what I wanted but sold me Kubuntu 9.04 on my laptop the day after it was available for download.
You have obviously never tried installing a different version of Windows onto a PC
Try getting a manufacturer to support you installing XP on a machine supplied with Vista or a installing Vista on an machine supplied with XP, and you mostly hit a brick wall of "install the supplied operating system and drivers"
The problem is not Linux, it is that they have not tested the system with any other operating system than the particular version(s) supplied with it ...
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
With Dell at least you can upgrade the memory and hard drives on those laptops your self and save some money sometimes.
--Neither is Microsoft nor the hardware vendors.--
I've never seen them around for Windows either. Just make sure you can get Linux drivers for all of the hardware that you are purchasing. Notebooks may be tricky here. I might would buy one of those pre-loaded with Linux but not a desktop.
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/ http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=14
Full 3D support for a better 3D desktop experience with Compiz or Beryl for only $349; Limbo 3550 desktop.
For only $299, get the Limbo 2550A desktop. They have laptops and more.
For $699, get the Homebox 4.
I met the entire family at SCALE 7x, held every February in Los Angeles (reasonably priced at $75 for the tradeshow, beats $600 to $1,400 which is the cost of most other tradeshows), they traveled from their home in Colorado to attend. Great people who stand behind their products. All their products come with a 1 year warranty.
For 2010, the premier Open Source Community conference in the United States, will return to the Westin LAX Hotel. SCALE 8x will be February 19th-21st, 2010
For netbooks, they are lite and weigh next to nothing, less than 2 lbs, which means very cheap shipping costs. So get the pre-installed with Linux netbooks from an online vendor. Use Pricegrabber, I can recommend NewEgg as a reputable vendor. Just be sure of the model you are ordering. The Asus Eee PC 901 has a webcam, the Asus Eee PC 901 Surf does NOT! So order the correct model and you will NOT have issues. You can read the reviews posted on the site to find a good vendor at a reasonable price.
I have found replacement software products, most superior to Microsoft, for everything I was using over the last 20 years. If I had to use a MS-Operating-specific-application I would try first to run it in its own virtual machine or WINE. But the reality is there are alternatives for everything! And you will discover as most of us have, that the incompatibilities are because of Microsoft. Stupid things like not rendering the open document format standards correctly in Microsoft Word and dumb things like that. Fortunately for every issue that I have encountered I have been able to find help in the may Linux support forums online and resolve them. When I encounter these lame FUD issues it just makes Microsoft more loathsome to me. I use to like Microsoft, not any more, its been too many years of too many artificial and unnecessary hassles. They come across as even more juvenial when they deny the problem exists and you can repeat it. Years later you learn that they knew about the problem, but did not have a fix, so they just go into denial mode. No they lost my TRUST! When you start to discover the real issues, start to see through their FUD, you will want to use them less and less as many of us do. Today that is possible. And in this economy, we need to cut corners and save money every where that we can.
Remember if you get a system with Linux preinstalled, it just works. You avoid all the proprietary driver crap and vendor LOCK IN shenanigans associated with other proprietary vendors. If WiFi is important to you, get it pre-installed and it will just work. Whatever you need, get it pre-installed from the vendor to avoid unnecessary hassles.
With the Asus Eee netbook PC WiFi, Ethernet, Webcam, Sound, Video, USB plug and play, all just worked out of the box. It was fantastic! And when the Coreboot project officially releases, you will be able to buy a Linux system based on Coreboot compatible products which will make us not dependent on the BIOS vendors who are not always Linux friendly with comp
Is your Internet Throttled? Install DD-Wrt, OpenWRT or Tomato to learn the truth! Google: 1Gbps/1Gbps: 5 Communities
A list of mini-laptops with comparisons:
http://www.mbnet.fi/tuoteseuranta/index.aspx?rrid=1
Availability was scarce in verkkokauppa:
http://www.verkkokauppa.com/?page=http://www.verkkokauppa.com/main.php?path=tietokoneet%2Fkannettavat&title=Tietokoneet+/+Kannettavat&search=1&cat1=Tietokoneet&cat2=Kannettavat&cat3=Linux
Some sell Acer aspire one: http://hintaseuranta.fi/tuote.aspx/171402
Here's Asus:
http://hintaseuranta.fi/tuote.aspx/164709
Lenovo T61 is pricier:
http://hintaseuranta.fi/tuote.aspx/81991
MSI wind:
http://hintaseuranta.fi/tuote.aspx/79914
You can check driver availability to about any laptop, even if it doesn't have linux preinstalled:
http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/
My personal choice would be Asus Eee PC 901. Enough CPU and SSD-drives which are more tolerant to shaking and movement, in addition of being fast. ..commenting in the order that the device is supposed to work with Linux.
To play DVDs, an external drive would be needed:
http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=2585
DVD-drive compatibility chart:
http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/search_res.php?pattern=dvd