Slashdot Mirror


Cancer Patient Held At Airport For Missing Fingerprints

A 62-year-old man visiting his relatives in the US was held for four hours by immigration officials after they could not detect his fingerprints because of a cancer drug he was taking. The man was prescribed capecitabine, a drug used to treat cancers in the head, neck, breast, and stomach. Some of the drug's side-effects include chronic inflammation of the palms or soles of the feet, which can cause the skin to peel or bleed. "This can give rise to eradication of fingerprints with time," explained Tan Eng Huat, senior consultant in the medical oncology department at Singapore's National Cancer Center. "Theoretically, if you stop the drug, it will grow back, but details are scanty. No one knows the frequency of this occurrence among patients taking this drug and nobody knows how long a person must be on this drug before the loss of fingerprints," he added.

85 of 323 comments (clear)

  1. The scariest words in the English language by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We're from the government, and we're here to help you!

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:The scariest words in the English language by interkin3tic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We're from the government, and we're here to help you!

      Uh, what's that got to do with anything? When would that have been said during this exchange? I mean, customs officials don't say "we're from the government" and they DEFINITELY don't say "We're here to help you."

    2. Re:The scariest words in the English language by MadAhab · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bullshit.

      The scariest words in the English language are "I'm just doing my job." That doesn't sound so good in German either.

      Besides, immigration officials aren't there to help anyone. Just ask the tourists who don't come to the US anymore.

      --
      Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
    3. Re:The scariest words in the English language by Abcd1234 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What... you'd rather the US government got out of the business of border security? Wow. Even the craziest right-wing loonies admit that the government's job is to protect the borders...

    4. Re:The scariest words in the English language by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What... you'd rather the US government got out of the business of border security? Wow. Even the craziest right-wing loonies admit that the government's job is to protect the borders...

      We have border security? Could have fooled me.....

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:The scariest words in the English language by Nutria · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In this case, why do they insist on fingerprints to identify someone?
      Sure, they might want to know if the person they are holding already has a record.
      If not, though, then certainly they are creating a new record, right?
      So, gather retinal scans, voice prints, DNA samples, whatever.
      Those will suffice if captured after doing something in the future.

      Every international airport would have to

      1. install retinal scanners,
      2. install voice print analyzers,
      3. have hundreds of mouth swabs on hand,
      4. install uber-speed DNA analyzers, (can they even do it in the minutes needed?)
      5. train the users to do it properly,
      6. upgrade all the computers to add the new data types, and
      7. new programming to use the new data.

      And the billions of dollars to implement it.

      All for a tiny percentage of the population.

      Not to mention the HOWLS OF RAGE from privacy groups, the ACLU, the EU, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

      Instead of knee-jerk reacting about how stupid the US government is, think about what you just wrote.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    6. Re:The scariest words in the English language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nothing sounds good in German. The words "I love you" sound so guttural that most people start thinking back to certain speeches at Nuremberg a few decades ago ;)

      If you're saying it gutturally, you're saying it wrong. There are no guttural sounds in "Ich liebe Dich". The "ch" sound in those words is palatal -- this sound, not this sound.

      Of course German is going to sound guttural and violent if all you listen to is people doing Hitler impressions. Real-life German is about as romantic-sounding as a language gets. (Note: I'm not German.)

    7. Re:The scariest words in the English language by alexborges · · Score: 2, Funny

      I hate your pretty bullets.

      --
      NO SIG
    8. Re:The scariest words in the English language by sortius_nod · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The US government is stupid, but this is just a case of a specific person being stupid (both the official and the poster you replied to).

      Fingerprinting everyone who enters your country is only valid when you've already deteriorated civil liberties beyond the point of no return. I don't think turning your country into a police state for the sake of being "safe" is a reasonable scenario. The bottom line is that US foreign policy put the US in its current position, so maybe changing this might ensure safety.

      Wars on "terrorism" and clandestine activities involving your secret services aren't exactly on the road to positive foreign policy.

      The more the US moves toward this police state (and police the world attitude), the more people will be wrongly detained at airports, boarders, hell, even in other countries. This does not reflect well at all for the US or US citizens.

    9. Re:The scariest words in the English language by TRRosen · · Score: 4, Funny

      Try listening to German porn. Its hilarious!

    10. Re:The scariest words in the English language by Nutria · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fingerprinting everyone who enters your country is ... turning your country into a police state

      What kind of brainlessness is this which asserts that "making sure you are who you say you are" == "police state"?????

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    11. Re:The scariest words in the English language by sortius_nod · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So photographs are no longer valid?

      I suppose we should all burn our passports and submit ourselves to chipping? Fingerprinting is not and never will be a valid form of identifying innocent civilians. The only people in my country that get fingerprinted are people who are charged with a crime, not innocent people entering the country (or, now as a newer article shows, leaving the country).

      Gee, that doesn't sound like a police state at all.

      What kind of brainlessness is this which asserts that "fingerprinting" == "making sure you are who you say you are"?

    12. Re:The scariest words in the English language by Randall311 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Everybody who requires a security clearance also must submit to fingerprinting. There are countless other valid reasons for fingerprinting as well. Why do you think that only people being charged with a crime are the ones that submit to fingerprinting? How is it any worse than having your picture taken for your passport? The only difference is that they now have something to tie back to you. This is not a police state.

    13. Re:The scariest words in the English language by Nutria · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So photographs are no longer valid?

      Hair cuts, hair dyes, grow/remove beards, weight gain, colored contact lens, nose jobs, etc, etc.

      I suppose we should all burn our passports and submit ourselves to chipping?

      I was fingerprinted when applying for my passport.

      Fingerprinting is not and never will be a valid form of identifying innocent civilians.

      How incredibly shortsighted and naive are you????

      Because my fingerprints are on file, if I am ever suspected of a "physical" crime in which the perpetrator left a fingerprint, I would be "unsuspected" (or at least dropped down the list) without even knowing that I were a suspect.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    14. Re:The scariest words in the English language by Cimexus · · Score: 4, Informative

      The US seems to love fingerprinting as a method of ID for some reason. In most countries, the only people that ever have their fingerprints taken are criminals.

      I have security clearances to several Australian Federal Government departments (as an IT contractor). No fingerprints required. They just simply aren't used here as a method of ID.

      The only people in the world who have my fingerprints, in fact, are the Americans, because I have travelled to the US and they take ALL TEN FINGERPRINTS of all visitors (?!?!!! that's still a serious wtf from me every time I think about it, even though I've gone through it a dozen times now)

    15. Re:The scariest words in the English language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because your fingerprints are on file, if anyone ever commits a "physical" crime in which the perpetrator left a fingerprint, and their fingerprint matches yours, you would be suspected, and forced to prove your innocence. If you believe that fingerprints are unique, you have another thing coming. Worldwide, there are going to be plenty of people whose fingerprints are close enough to yours to match. With a small pool of recorded fingerprints, this fact doesn't stand out that much. Fingerprint everyone in the world, and whenever the police check a fingerprint, the computer is going to spit out a book of possible matches.

    16. Re:The scariest words in the English language by sortius_nod · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is exactly my point.

      I too am an Aussie, and I find the notion of fingerprinting innocents a gross violation of human rights. It seems the typical response to not wanting to be printed is "if you have nothing to hide you won't mind".

      Well, my response is "if I am innocent then why am I being treated like a criminal"?

      I know this conversation will go nowhere due to the hard line Americans hijacking it and defending the police state they live in. None are so jaded as the people who fully accept giving up their liberties and rights for the sake of "security"... no, I'm not going to do the full quote, but you get the picture.

    17. Re:The scariest words in the English language by maglor_83 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How on Earth is fingerprinting me going to tell you if I am who I say I am? You have nothing to compare it to, because nobody knows what my fingerprints look like.

    18. Re:The scariest words in the English language by Nutria · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, my response is "if I am innocent then why am I being treated like a criminal"?

      But getting fingerprinted does not and never has treated you like a criminal. (I first got fingerprinted 30+ years ago for a passport.)

      It in only about Authentication. Nothing more, nothing less.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    19. Re:The scariest words in the English language by bemymonkey · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So because they only fingerprint criminals in your country, fingerprinting someone anywhere else is "treating them like a criminal"?

      Sure, it's a hassle, but the only reason I'd feel like a criminal while being fingerprinted would be from watching too much bad TV (being as the only people who get fingerprinted on TV shows or in movies are criminals :P)...

    20. Re:The scariest words in the English language by 10Ghz · · Score: 2, Funny

      Try listening to German porn. Its hilarious!

      Ja, meine panzerwagen, das ist gut!

      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
    21. Re:The scariest words in the English language by adonoman · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I'm not an American, but:

      I find the notion of fingerprinting innocents a gross violation of human rights.

      Really? A gross violation of human rights is being sold into slavery. It's being denied personhood. It's having your local police force come by and rape your wife. It's being held indefinitely without charge and being subjected to torture. It's having all the children in your entire ethnic group rounded up and sent to boarding schools to be assimilated.

      Being fingerprinted is a pointless invasion of privacy, and an inconvenience.

  2. just doing their job by castironpigeon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why think when you can follow protocol?

    --
    mmmm...forbidden donut
    1. Re:just doing their job by Ceiynt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Protocol, and current law, requires fingerprinting for incoming foreigners. I think DNA should be a good alternative if fingerprints are not available. I wonder what the protocol is for a double arm amputee. What if they had just said, "Oh well, you look sick and you won't do anything, so we'll let you in."
      What if they find out he's on cancer drugs because he's some sort of commie biochem guy and is now sick from that. He's dying and wants to do damage to America. He blows up a school. Oh, well, after a few years they'll find he wasn't printed coming into the country. Parents of kids killed sue because protocol wasn't followed, allowing a dangerous wanted person in the country, just because he was sick.
      Sickness does not beget special treatment. A plan B should be in place for this sort of thing.

    2. Re:just doing their job by Frequency+Domain · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why think when you can follow protocol?

      These are low-wage worker bees. The one thing they know for sure is that they won't get into trouble if they follow protocol. Do you really expect them to think? I'm not saying I like the result, but it's clear to me that if a TSA worker has a choice between your discomfort resulting from following protocol, and his if he breaks protocol and the outcome catches somebody's attention, he'll stick with protocol every time.

    3. Re:just doing their job by Volante3192 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sickness does not beget special treatment.

      I'll remember that the next time I see a handicapped placard on a car.

    4. Re:just doing their job by hondo77 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When was the last time a real terrorist was found in a border check?

      Nine years ago.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    5. Re:just doing their job by Blahgerton · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've waited longer than that due to weather...



      I don't mind waiting for weather, which no one can control. I do mind waiting for security theatrics, which the government can control.
    6. Re:just doing their job by darthwader · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why not do both? Protocol is: get fingerprint. If you cannot get a fingerprint, then you should use your discretion and initiative, e.g.:
      - carefully and thoroughly interview the visitor.
      - understand and verify the person's reason for not having a fingerprint.
      - understand why the person is visiting the country.
      - determine whether this person is likely to be a risk or not.
      - decide if the person should be allowed into the country despite the lack of fingerprints.

      If the border guards didn't want to think, they would have just deported him right away. They were willing to think. They did think. They interviewed him, thought about what he said,possibly spent some time verifying what he said, maybe consulted other people, and in the end they decided he was an acceptable risk. The process took 4 hours. It seems reasonable to me.

      I think this shows a system working perfectly. The normal case (over 99% of the time, I would guess) is a few seconds for a fingerprint. The exceptions are dealt with on a case-by-case basis, with a thorough interview and careful consideration (not a stupid snap judgment).

      --
      I hate it when I make a joke and I get modded "+5 insightful". Mod the stupid comments "funny", not "insightful", pleas
    7. Re:just doing their job by geekoid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      INterestng to note thatb the same evidence to convict him could be used to convicet any model rocket enthusiast.

      Also note he was held for an extend time before trial, a complete violation of his do process.

      The his confessions were used to convict someone else. I would love to see the transcripts of that conversation:
      "Do you know that this man was a terrorist?
      Yes.
      Convict him boys, this un trustworthy terrorist said this other person was guilty.

      4 timers and nitroglycerin? I wonder why no one mention how he was transporting enough nitro to make 4 bombs gig enough to require timers?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:just doing their job by geekoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When government officials detain you for whatever they want, and nobody thinks its a big deal, then truly, the terrorists have won.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:just doing their job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      for a cancer patient, four hours wasted is a huge deal.

    10. Re:just doing their job by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are required to give fingerprints when you come to the US. The US is open and clear about that. This man entered the US without fingerprints. That would be roughly equivelent to a returning American without any identification. Would you plaster up "innocent American held for hours" or "idiot with no ID got what he deserved"? He traveled to the US missing a required item, fingerprints. That he was held for a short time (and yes, 4 hours is short when you are essentially in violation of US law, even with good reason) and released when his information could be checked out and verified. That's the system working. There are lots of things to complain about (like fingerprints being required in the first place) but to hold this up as an example of a failure of the system is absurd. To state that they held him for "no reason" is absurd. They had a good reason and held him no longer than necessary to address the issue.

    11. Re:just doing their job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No When your mothers and daughters are wearing a hijab, and you aren't allowed to drink beer or eat pork, then the terrorists have one. It's not their goal to just take our freedoms away, that is an effect of the real goal, of implementing the totalitarian rule of Islam world wide.

    12. Re:just doing their job by Normal+Dan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What if

      What if you trip and fall on a sharp corner and poke your eye out? We should ban sharp corners! What if you trip and fall and hit your head on a wall? We should pad all our walls. Or better yet, ban walking or moving about of any kind. We should all be bound to soft beds. What if your teenage child is sexually attracted to a classmate? We should ban children.

      We could play what if all day, but the point is, you can't keep everyone safe from everything all the time. You have to ask what freedoms are worth giving up for what safeties. I for one would be willing to give up a lot of the "safety" gained from our security theater for the freedom to get on an airplane without taking off my shoes.

      On a side note, didn't we used to belittle commie's for being a "show me your papers" kind of state?

      --
      A unique way to learn a language: http://languageloom.com
    13. Re:just doing their job by meringuoid · · Score: 2, Informative

      When was the last time a real terrorist was found in a border check In 2007, although the terrorist in question had been on ceasefire for a decade, and was by that stage a reasonably respectable member of the political establishment, and had been invited to the US to meet the President.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    14. Re:just doing their job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      The solution is to go back to not fingerprinting your *guests* like they were common criminals. I for one have stopped taking our vacations in the USA for precisely this reason. I have nothing to hide, but I refuse to have my fingerprints put on file, and I am avoiding the USA till the country comes to its senses. To my shame, our own government (UK) is nearly as rabid about security.

    15. Re:just doing their job by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He traveled to the US missing a required item, fingerprints.

      Not at all. He gave them the fingerprints that he had. The fact that they were useless to ICE is not his fault.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    16. Re:just doing their job by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Simply because they're not paid to think. They're drones. If they started showing signs of unique thought and it turned out to be 'the wrong thing', then they'd be out of a job, replaced by another drone. Following protocol is greater assurance of continued employment.

      More than that, I'm sure there's a natural screening process at work that gets rid of inquisitive people with good heads on their shoulders: the monotony of the job. Looking at people's passports all day has got to be one of the most boring jobs out there. Managing people who look at passports all day and dealing with people who have issues with their passports might be a little more interesting, except with all the paranoia I'm sure they're in a straightjacket and have little power to do anything that someone might think will decrease security.

      If you think outside the box, or rather, can think rather than just be a robot, then you're probably going to go crazy and shoot yourself or others if you do it for very long. Or just quit. The ones that left are the ones that are, well, you've seen them if you've ever come through customs.

      I guess if we made the pay a lot higher, we could get some better customs agents who could think and who would be able to resolve odd issues like this faster, but that money would come from taxes. And most of us have fingerprints and can pass through customs just fine, and no system is going to be perfect.

      Bureaucracies are always very efficient at dealing with things they usually deal with, they're terribly inefficient when dealing with anything out of the ordinary, just like any mindless machine. At least they are as quick as they can be when you do fit neatly into their box.

      The lesson here is if you don't have fingerprints and are doing international travel, either contact customs ahead of time or be prepared for a wait.

    17. Re:just doing their job by hughk · · Score: 2, Informative

      Arguably, Gerry Adams was never really even a terrorist, he was just on the political wing of an organisation that had terrorist connections. That is SInn Fein, never shot at anyone or bombed anyone. Gerry Adams political affiliations were well known as well as the fact that he was travelling under his own name.

      --
      See my journal, I write things there
  3. Can't be the first by georgenh16 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How does someone with their extremities amputated get through an airport?

    1. Re:Can't be the first by Morphine007 · · Score: 5, Funny

      probably a wheelchair

    2. Re:Can't be the first by internerdj · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I had a friend in high school whose family owned a catfish restaurant. He had been helping out at the restaurant for many years and by the time he was 17-18 had no discernible fingerprints either. It most certainly cannot be the first case where someone passed through without fingerprints. It is news because there was a single idiot working at that location and he couldn't be bothered to actually do any critical reasoning.

    3. Re:Can't be the first by legirons · · Score: 2, Insightful

      probably a wheelchair

      Well yeah. and the wheelchair doesn't go through x-ray nor does the person in it, plus you don't queue for security -- probably the quickest/easiest way to get airside short of wearing a police uniform.

    4. Re:Can't be the first by Daimanta · · Score: 5, Funny

      Catfish are toxic. Apparently they have such toxicity that they burn of your fingerprints if you handle enough of them.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    5. Re:Can't be the first by internerdj · · Score: 2, Informative

      Fried catfish. His years of being burned by the oil had burned away the layer of skin responsible for fingerprints and built up scar tissue in its place. If you looked there were still fingerprint patterns; they just didn't form the typical ridges used for fingerprinting or leaving fingerprints.

    6. Re:Can't be the first by Khyber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And here, ladies and gentleman, is a person that's NEVER done a fish fry or turkey deep fry.

      Here sir, let me put your fingers NEAR this FOUR HUNDRED DEGREE HOT OIL.

      Sorry if you get any spatters on yourself or if you burn yourself touching the frying basket where you shouldn't.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    7. Re:Can't be the first by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Informative

      Catfish are toxic... what retarded moderator put this as "interesting" rather than "funny"? Seriously... homeland security agents aren't the only ones lacking any critical thought

    8. Re:Can't be the first by Taibhsear · · Score: 2, Funny

      I dunno, I'm stumped.
      (ducks)

    9. Re:Can't be the first by coolsnowmen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've fried a turkey; I guess I'm just smart enough not to fuck up my fingers (I use a digital thermometer so it is easy to tell when oil is too hot to touch). Also, the parent said nothing about fried catfish; I just figured it was some fresh fish place down by a lake.

  4. Best country in the world by mofag · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I always feel so welcome entering the US :)

    Seriously though, how often do border guards ever catch anyone? All that frisking and undressing and do they EVER catch anyone? I feel certain that if they ever did, it would be all over the media. As evidenced here, this pointless pompous nonsense reaches the pinacle of its expression on the way into the US.

    1. Re:Best country in the world by RockMFR · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, they catch shampoo smugglers all the time.

    2. Re:Best country in the world by joebok · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, yes:

      http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2001/1125/cover.html

      An alert border guard caught a guy trying to get across the border with a bunch of bomb stuff. This case with the finger prints doesn't sound like a case of anybody being "alert" - but for my money, training people to detect and investigate is far better than the ridiculous security theater we usually see - taking off shoes and having jars of plum jam confiscated.

    3. Re:Best country in the world by gujo-odori · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sure, they were dumb. Most criminals are. Most terrorists aren't exactly the sharpest marbles in the sack, either. How dumb do you have to be for someone to convince you that blowing yourself up or flying an airplane into a building is a good idea and will help you achieve your goals?

      However, they only failed because the supplier they found was an undercover Fed rather than someone who would supply actual weapons. As for reality, the rocket was real; it was just disarmed. As for the C-4, it's probably possible to supply fake C-4 that behaves just like the real thing except it won't actually explode. It's not surprising that they didn't test the stuff; they had no reason to, believing it to be authentic, and testing C-4 is likely to attract a lot of attention.

      The bottom line is, they *are* terrorists. They did have a concrete plan to carry out attacks. They attempted to carry out that plan. They were caught by good undercover police work. To try and say they aren't terrorists because they were arrested before they could blow anything up is like trying to say somebody isn't a drug dealer because he gets arrested after selling to a narc.

    4. Re:Best country in the world by syousef · · Score: 2, Funny

      Most terrorists aren't exactly the sharpest marbles in the sack, either

      Sharp marbles? That explains it! No wonder this guy's got worn down fingerprints! Give him the round smooth marbles we use to use when I was a kid and it'll all be fine.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    5. Re:Best country in the world by gujo-odori · · Score: 2, Insightful

      25 out of 100 random people will accept an offer of C4 from a stranger? I call BS. If you told me 25/100 people were stupid, I'd believe you. But not *that* stupid.

      Secondly, he didn't just walk up to them, open his trench coat and say "Pssst, wanna buy some C4 and a Stinger?" They were looking for stuff, so the FBI put forward a supplier.

      Finally, if an FBI agent *had* walked up and said "Pssst, wanna buy some C4 and a Stinger?" and they said yes, then got busted, that'd stand up in court. Offering an illegal item for sale is not legal entrapment. Cf. John Delorean's coke bust. Or anybody who gets busted for soliciting prostitution when the prostitute turns out to be a police officer.

    6. Re:Best country in the world by evil_aar0n · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You miss my point. This was more like a boxing match between someone incapable of defending himself and a heavyweight champion. The champ won - surprise! - and then bragged about it.

      Calling these guys terrorists is about as accurate as calling the Keystone Kops "law enforcement officials." Put it this way: the Feds weren't afraid of supplying this material to these guys and letting them loose. If they were potentially a real threat, the Feds would've picked them up well before they even got close to the targets. But they let them go through with their plot, parking the car out front, scaring the bejeezuz out of the neighborhood, etc. Grab your popcorn! We're watching Security Theater!!

      I s'pose picking the low-hanging fruit still gets the fruit, but it's nothing to crow about.

      --
      Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
    7. Re:Best country in the world by nbauman · · Score: 3, Informative

      Secondly, he didn't just walk up to them, open his trench coat and say "Pssst, wanna buy some C4 and a Stinger?" They were looking for stuff, so the FBI put forward a supplier.

      Actually, the informant, Shahed Hussain, did go around saying things like that, in this case and another one, and federal agents have set up other people like that.

      Hussain was a Pakistani immigrant who went undercover for the feds seven years ago to avoid deportation after being convicted of fraud. He was going around to mosques offering people money. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/23/nyregion/23informant.html And by being a government informant, (1) Hussain was getting paid a lot of money (hundreds of thousands of dollars, as I recall) (2) He got out of prosecution and possibly prison for his own crimes (3) Instead of being deported, he was allowed to stay in the country, which for a lot of immigrants is most important of all.

      Hussain was responsible for a conviction in another case http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/nyregion/11plot.html in which he entrapped two men who never had anything to do with terrorism before, and who never could have gotten such weapons before, by loaning them $50,000.

      One of the plotters in the current case needed money because his brother was sick. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/05/25/2009-05-25_terror_plotter_did_it_for_me_brother.html

      Finally, if an FBI agent *had* walked up and said "Pssst, wanna buy some C4 and a Stinger?" and they said yes, then got busted, that'd stand up in court. Offering an illegal item for sale is not legal entrapment.

      Well, depending on the circumstances it can be entrapment. If the person had no predisposition to commit a crime, and the FBI agent entices him by using an unreasonable amount of pressure, such as offering a huge amount of money, it can be entrapment. It's a jury question.

      Cf. John Delorean's coke bust.

      DeLorean was acquitted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_De_Lorean That's a good example of entrapment, because DeLorean was offered an unreasonable amount of money, in desperate circumstances, to do something he would not otherwise do.

      Or anybody who gets busted for soliciting prostitution when the prostitute turns out to be a police officer.

      If someone solicits a prostitute, that would show predisposition to commit a crime.

      In contrast, a person who has never committed an act of terrorism, and has nothing to do with terrorists, who is enticed to take a large amount of money and then informed that it is for terrorist purposes, is entrapped, under the law.

      Unfortunately, it's easy to manipulate juries with prejudicial issues, such as the defendant's race and religion. Right now, many jurors will be prejudiced against Muslim Arabs, and it's relatively easy for a prosecutor to get a conviction against them by using scare tactics.

      A good example was Hemant Lakhani, whose case was the subject of a good program on This American LIfe. http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1088 One of the jurors agreed that he was entrapped, but she felt pressured by the other jurors to go along. Most people who listen to that broadcast would come to the same conclusion. But Lakhani is in jail for the rest of his life.

      Next time around, the time will come for them to be prejudiced against another ethnic group or religion.

      What was your race and religion again?

    8. Re:Best country in the world by nbauman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You show me a person who says "Yeah, sure" to an offer of blowing up a Synagogue for cash and I'll show you a person with a predisposition to do that anyway.

      If you had read psychologists like Stanley Milgram http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_milgram you'd know that most people could be manipulated to do exactly what the Nazis did by someone who is a skillful manipulator -- and informers are skillful manipulators. If you read testimony at these trials, you'll see that the defendants made innocent decisions that would have seemed reasonable at the time, and one thing led to another.

      If you had been in that situation, an undercover agent might have manipulated you into going along with the plot.

      Prejudice against Muslims? Hardly. You *have* noticed that the people going around doing this are primarily young, primarily Muslim, primarily male, right?

      Prejudice unsupported by facts. The Israelis commit just as much terrorism as Arabs and Muslims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yigal_Amir http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/MDE02/005/2002 And the U.S. has supported many terrorist movements against Cuba, Nicaragua, etc.

      If moderate Muslims want Islam to be respected rather than suspected, they need to stand up and denounce terror and denounce terrorists. Even when those terrorists are state actors.

      That is such bullshit I don't want to go through the details. You'll have to look up Gershom Gorenberg's articles yourself. Let's just say that I was working to free Muslims from jail who were imprisoned for denouncing terrorism.

      What's my race and religion? You can call me Irish Catholic. In some parts of the world, that might have gotten me some extra scrutiny once upon a time and I wouldn't call it unfair. People with names like mine and a religion like mine were planting bombs in London, and some here in the US were helping to finance them. If our terrorism problems here were with people of Irish ancestry and Catholic religion, I'd be quite understanding if that got me secondary screening when I fly, and I wouldn't be whining that it's racism or prejudice.

      There's at least one case that I can remember of a group of innocent Irish people who were convicted of terrorism charges in England and who served decades in jail, where one of them died, until it turned out that the scientific evidence against them, of nitrates, was faulty and they were released.

      According to this article in Slate, http://www.slate.com/id/1003657/ entrapment requires 3 things:

      1. The idea of committing the crime came from law enforcement officers, rather than the defendant.

      2. The law enforcement officers induced the person to commit the crime.

      3. The defendant was not ready and willing to commit this type of crime before being induced to do so.

      Many of these terrorist cases meet all 3 requirements.

      Repeatedly, an informer went to American residents who had previously had no contact with Islamic terrorism.

      Repeatedly, the informer came up with the plot, and encouraged the defendant to participate by offering him substantial amounts of money.

      Repeatedly, the defendant had never participated in this kind of activity before, and would never have done so if the informer hadn't suggested it and facilitated it, often by providing bogus "weapons."

      The prosecutors claim that the defendants would or might have some day participated in terrorism anyway. That's speculation which would only convince jurors who are prejudiced to believe that Muslims or Arabs are terrorists.

      For example, listen to the case of Hemant Lakhani on This American Life. http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1088 .

  5. Technology-determined guilt or innocence by BetterSense · · Score: 5, Interesting
    When I was getting my CCW permit, which requires fingerprinting, there was an old man there. The police fingerprinters were failing to get fingerprints from him, I assumed because of his old wrinkled skin. Since he legally cannot get a CCW permit without fingerprints on file, he was basically being discriminated against on the basis that the fancy fingerprinting machine that the police station bought happened to not do the correct song and dance when he put his fingers on it.

    It's similar to the situation with breathalyzers where if the machine beeps or not can be the difference between you going to jail or driving home. Our judges have been replaced by robotic imposters, and I imagine it will get worse in the future.

    1. Re:Technology-determined guilt or innocence by QuoteMstr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      IANAL, but my understanding is that refusal laws apply only after an arrest. Refusal to take a roadside breathalyzer does, however, constitute probably cause for arrest. Once you are placed under arrest as a result of either refusing or failing a roadside breathalyzer, you are given an evidentiary test, using with a more reliable machine. Refusing this test is what triggers the refusal laws.

      Again, IANAL, but it seems better to always refuse a test if you know you're going to fail. Failure to blow is a civil penalty. A DUI is a criminal conviction that can haunt you for the rest of your life.

  6. That's Nothin' by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Funny

    Once I saw this movie, and some policemen caught Santa Claus, and he had snowflake fingerprints. Seriously. You should see it.

    --
    Qxe4
    1. Re:That's Nothin' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Saw it last week. The movie is Ernest Saves Christmas.

    2. Re:That's Nothin' by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Heaven help me for knowing this, but I'm pretty sure it was Ernest Saves Christmas.

  7. Headline on Fox News tonight: by RandoX · · Score: 5, Funny

    Terrible New Terrorism Drug Helps Terrorists Evade Identification And Cause More Terrible Terror.

  8. some people just don't have fingerprints by alphaFlight · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My wife had to get a special exemption to sit for the bar exam because the state police couldn't take her fingerprints, which were necessary for conducting the required criminal background check. She has no idea why her fingerprints are virtually nonexistent.

    --
    -= alphaFlight =-
    1. Re:some people just don't have fingerprints by joyfeather · · Score: 2, Informative

      I knew an guy who had worked with air conditioners for years- he couldn't be fingerprinted either, and that was with the old style ink method. The chemicals he worked with burned off the surface of the skin on his fingers.

    2. Re:some people just don't have fingerprints by Lord+Ender · · Score: 5, Funny

      She secretly works for the MIB. They remove your fingerprints when they join. Every time you discover this, however, she gets you with her little memory-zapper-thingy.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    3. Re:some people just don't have fingerprints by ivan256 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, based on your anecdotal sample size of one, clearly I'm making this up.

      She has a mild case of Eczema, which is commonly aggrivated by excessive washing. It causes cracking peeling, swelling and scarring. Her thumb prints have *not* grown back.

  9. Oh, piff by goldaryn · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is all just minutiae, people!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutiae

  10. Obviously by TibbonZero · · Score: 5, Funny

    We must ban anti-cancer drugs. The terrorists might use them. Terrorists could hurt children. Think of the children!

    --
    Tibbon
    tibbon.com
  11. 4 hours? by anonieuweling · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As if the prints would return this quick?
    How stupid can you be if such a specific case takes 4 hours?
    DHS senior personnel thinks that they NEED fingerprints to let someone enter? [fascist state proof #1]
    DHS is unsure if they can send him back because there are no prints.
    [cluelessness proof #1] Etc.
    Of course the man didn't tell them he was taking medicine etc.

  12. The Penguin (not the Linux kind) tried this by RobertB-DC · · Score: 5, Funny

    In an episode of the original Adam West "Batman" series, the caped crusader was performing a high-tech fingerprint scan on all the citizens leaving some sort of event. Along comes a long-nosed fellow -- obviously The Penguin, since his disguise was about as effective as Superman's "Clark Kent" cover. Batman attempts the fingerprint scan, but the man has no fingerprints.

    "Holy Nonsequitur, Batman!" the intrepid Robin exclaims, "it's plastic!"

    "Yes, I believe that's what the surgeon used," replies the ersatz innocent civilian.

    Batman lets him go, but confides to Robin that he knows it's the Penguin -- but now that the dastardly enemy thinks he's slipped the trap, he will now lead them to the bad guys' secret lair.

    Obviously, the TSA should have done the same with this guy. Then, they could have found the entire Al Qaida leadership, probably meeting in a rakishly tilted room, behind the one-way mirror in a seedy magic shop.

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
  13. Been there, done that... by Calibax · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was diagnosed with colon cancer in 2005, and after surgery I did the chemotherapy thing. One of my drugs was Xeloda, which is the marketing name for capecitabine, the drug this guy is taking.

    The problem mentioned in TFA is Hand-Foot Syndrome (HFS) or palmer-palmer erythrodysesthesia. Capecitabine causes redness, swelling, a rash, and burning pain in the hands and feet - and sometimes elsewhere such as joints and genitals. In bad cases the skin peels and you get blisters, ulcers and sores in the affected areas. This is because some of the drug leaks out of the capillaries and damages the surrounding tissues, and you have a lot of capillaries close to the surface in the hands and feet.

    There are drugs (Vitamin B6, corticosteroids, dimethyl sulfoxide) that can help sometimes - but they didn't for me. Walking became extremely painful, and my hands were constantly hot and painful, although I didn't lose my fingerprints as far as I know. Everything returned to normal some months after chemotherapy completed.

    I really sympathize with this guy. Dealing with immigration headaches while having bad hand-foot syndrome would have been a total hassle for me. Even standing up for a few minutes was torture.

  14. Re:Well by legirons · · Score: 3, Informative

    What choice do they have? It could take 4hrs to verify someone is on such a drug. It ended well so this is hardly a controversy.

    How many flights have you arrived for where a 4-hour delay wouldn't have caused huge problems for you?

    Most airlines I know, you lose your flight if you don't get through security on time, and if you can't pay for a much more expensive ticket on the next flight then you might lose your entire holiday

  15. This is utterly non-news! by swordgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From a medical and oncological perspective, this is very interesting stuff.

    From a DHS/security/evil overlord angle, it's absolutely nothing at all.

    The guy was screened routinely. He failed the screening for an extraordinary reason, and was kept for four measly hours, until they could parse and process the exception.

    That's it. They didn't strip-search him, they didn't tase him, they didn't abuse him or violate his rights. They came across an exception, dealt with it, and moved on.

    Or would you rather spend all day making up SHOCKING headlines for articles like, "Police do their job. Bring in suspect for questioning, and then release him after innocence proven."

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
    1. Re:This is utterly non-news! by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "The guy was screened routinely. "

      THAT'S the problem.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:This is utterly non-news! by misexistentialist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's more like the police detaining you because you have a clean knife in your kitchen, since many murderers clean the murder weapon. Or for that matter you have no knife, since most murderers would dispose of it.

      With no fingerprints this guy will be harassed for the rest of his life, precisely because there is no evidence that can be used against him. Since any criminal would want to blend in, having no fingerprints is in fact "cause" to suspect that he is very innocent.

  16. My sister was held back too! by KreAture · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My sister has Nethertons Syndrome. It's relevant implication for this case is that her skin is replaced faster than normal. This causes her to have weak if any fingerprints.

    When visiting Florida for christmas last year my entire family was held back for about half an hour. Only after the "security person" had consulted his superior, and that superior had consulted yet another superior, were this 16 year old obvious thread to national security allowed to pass into America. They also tried to wipe her fingertips with alcohol. Very pleasant on what you can compare to a first to second degree burn.

  17. Re:Cancer Patient might be an alien... by vastabo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No. No, they weren't.

  18. Re:Do they fingerprint everyone?! by Idarubicin · · Score: 3, Informative

    Fingerprint and photograph, yes -- with a few exceptions. The big one is that (most) Canadian citizens are exempt. As well, individuals younger than 14 or older than 79 can skip the ten card and mugshot.

    You get the invasion of privacy even if you're just passing through a U.S. airport to make a connection to another country.

    --
    ~Idarubicin
  19. Sense of touch by AlpineR · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wrote about this in my cancer blog a few months back:

    I lost some feeling in my hands and feet due to the various chemotherapy drugs I've taken over the past five years. I also lost my fingerprints thanks to Xeloda, which irritates the palms and soles in a reaction called hand-foot syndrome.

    When I went to Disney World in 2007 I found that the entry gates use fingerprint scanners to ensure that the person using an electronic ticket is the same one who registered it. The scanner choked when I tried to register and an attendant had to override it. I bet that enough of the population has similar issues that it's in their training manual. I suppose it also means that people like me are a headache for anyone else trying to use fingerprints for identification.

    Some of the numbness is nerve damage, particularly from the platinum-based drugs. The nerves do slowly heal, so I am getting some feeling back. In fact, now that I've been off of systemic chemo for four months I have enough feeling to realize that I lost more than I appreciated. Except for a period after a massive dose in 2005, the numbness hasn't been enough to interfere with tasks like holding a pen or buttoning a shirt. It's just been a dullness of sensation.

    Today I learned that there's another explanation. According to research published in Science, fingerprints enhance the sense of touch. The ridges vibrate as they encounter bumps on a surface and transmit stronger signals to the nerve endings. So part of my numbness to texture is not just the nerve damage but the lack of fingerprints. I wonder if they, too, will regrow over time.

  20. Yeah, securiy theatre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I get the feeling that we are going to see more and more of this security theatre crap. From what I understand there is no independent scientific evidence that fingerprints are a unique identifying feature, no mater how much the government wishes it was. I recall several attempts by law enforcement to create "infailable methods" (the only one I can remember at the moment is "gait ID", something to do with how people walk) to identify people but eventually all of them were proven to be nothing more than an inpetus for convicting/harassing people on little to no evidence. Even the DNA methods used by the FBI have been proven to be imperfect, being vastly less accurate than the FBI claimed. Law enforcement/government/security needs to get over the falacy that there is some magical perfect ID method for finding "the bad people". (forgive my spelling errors, some moron removed OO from the PC)

  21. America: A Dialogue by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Based on a true story and submitted for your critical evaluation, dear reader, I present "America: A Dialogue".

    Alice: I can't believe people want to bring the 9/11 terrorists into the US.

    Bob: Well, it's the right thing to do. We need to stop torturing them and give them fair trials.

    Alice: But not here. They're too dangerous to bring into the country.

    Bob:: If our prisons can hold Timothy McVeigh, they can hold anyone. And they're being tortured over there.

    Alice: McVeigh is one thing, but if we hold Al Qaeda terrorists, their supporters will come down through Canada and bail them out of Fort Leavenworth. I think they're just too dangerous to keep here, and an island is much more secure anyway.

    Bob: But our soldiers are behaving like monsters and torturing these people.

    Alice: They deserve it anyway. They attacked us on 9/11. And the real monsters are on top*. Don't criticize our troops who are just trying to do their job. It must hard dealing with those people.

    Bob: We don't know they've done anything. They've never been tried. And our troops are responsible for what they do. Didn't we decide that at Nuremberg?

    Alice: We know they attacked us. These things happen during war. They happen all the time. My friend's father told me of some nasty stuff that happened in Korea. This is no big deal.

    Bob: [dramatic facepalm, exit stage left]

    [Curtain drops, Alice appears from behind it]

    Alice: I'm so glad we elected someone who can rehabilitate our image in the world.

    [House lights]

    * Note the slight improvement over the past few years

    1. Re:America: A Dialogue by grantek · · Score: 2, Funny

      You forgot:
      Eve: Boys, ready a unit for dispatch...