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Qualcomm Demos Eee PC Running Android OS

Posted by timothy on from the parallel-convergence dept.

angry tapir writes "Qualcomm has showed off a version of Asustek Computer's Eee PC based on its Snapdragon processor at the Computex exhibition, including one running Google's Android operating system. The new laptop — which Qualcomm calls a smartbook — is thinner and lighter than current members of Asustek's Eee PC netbook lineup because the 1GHz Snapdragon processor that it uses does not require a heat sink or a cooling fan."

125 comments

  1. Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The new laptop -- which Qualcomm calls a smartbook -- is thinner and lighter than current members of Asustek's Eee PC netbook lineup because the 1GHz Snapdragon processor that it uses does not require a heat sink or a cooling fan.

    Yes, of course, because of an important point in the article:

    Qualcomm's Snapdragon includes a 1GHz Arm processor core, a 600MHz digital-signal processor and hardware video codecs. Currently, Asustek's Eee PC line of netbooks relies on Intel processors, in particular the low-cost, low-power Atom chip, which has an x86 processor core.

    Which makes complete sense, because of its low power consumption you're going to see less heat and longer battery life (why do you think OLPC moved to it). And for those of you skeptical of the speed:

    When the first Snapdragon-based devices hit the market later this year, they will have a 1GHz Arm processor core but that will increase to 1.3GHz next year, with the release of Qualcomm's Snapdragon 8650A, Pineda said.

    Every single eee PC available (with Atom processors) on the market is x86, to my knowledge.

    This headline really got my hopes up as I just bout an eee PC 1000HE last weekend and have it dual booting to Windows XP & Easy Peasy Ubuntu. I love it. It's totally replaced my 5 year old laptop. I was hoping this meant I could partition out some space for Android but it looks like I'm left to emulating it (pretty much not an option considering the overhead). Maybe Google just doesn't see a point of porting Android to x86 since it's probably pretty dependent on the power efficiency of ARM?

    Pare away the heat sink and all that junk, add super small RAM and flash storage and ... hand held computers (like the article notes from Toshiba). Microsoft better not be resting on its laurels and should either be beefing up Windows Mobile or porting Windows 7 to ARM ... or they're going to miss out big time again.

    Has anyone found anything on how Android applications dependent on cell phone-ish hardware (like GPS location and the like) will be handled inside a device like the eee PC?

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    1. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Sinning · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Why port Android to x86 when you can just run Android apps in Ubuntu?

    2. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by notarockstar1979 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're missing the point. This isn't so that you can run Android apps, it's showing off a piece of hardware. The OS is beside the point (although I think Android is a good choice to show off the processor but that's more of a personal preference).

    3. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by psicop · · Score: 1

      Maybe consider something else besides Ubuntu and, learn to, you know...cross compile. Talk about resting on laurels...

      Footnote #65 on Wikipedia's entry for Google Android returns an article from January 09, running Android on a eee PC 1000H.

    4. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Which makes complete sense, because of its low power consumption you're going to see less heat and longer battery life (why do you think OLPC moved to it).

      OLPC was formerly using Geode LX, which while not a speed demon by ANY stretch is very low-power. TDP for the CPU+Chipset is under 10 watts.

      --
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    5. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by sznupi · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's still order of magnitude more than ARM.

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    6. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by xonar · · Score: 1

      I would hope google would go the debian route and port it to every architecture conceivable.

    7. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Vu1turEMaN · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its easier for Microsoft to just buy a company that has an ARM-compatible OS then to actually develop one. Just throw an XP theme on it and everyone will start using it like MS was saving this for the right moment.

      "Skinning is easier than Winning" - someone on the winamp forums complaining about no new features being added in a while

    8. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, that's not the important point at all...at least not the most important point.

      1. Android is "free" (unlike XP or Vista or Windows 7 or even Ubuntu on ARM)
      2. ARM is considerably cheaper than Intel processors
      3. Longer battery life from power consumption benefits (obviously a nice bonus but the big guns are going for a cheaper way to make netbooks)

      I work for one of the companies that is making software for these new devices and Asus is going to bring out netbook based devices as well. Oh there is Android for x86 as well (again cost cutting measures) but whether that comes out for the public remains to be seen. I've installed and used Android on several netbooks and this is old news.

    9. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Informative

      Pare away the heat sink and all that junk, add super small RAM and flash storage and ... hand held computers (like the article notes from Toshiba). Microsoft better not be resting on its laurels and should either be beefing up Windows Mobile or porting Windows 7 to ARM ... or they're going to miss out big time again.

      People keep saying this sort of thing, but I really don't see it being viable. A Snapdragon is probably going to end up being at best the same speed as an Atom for native code. Windows 7 is probably quite portable and from the tests I've done on the Beta on Atoms might run quite okish on an 1Ghz Snapdragon if it were ported. Even there we're talking about a 1Ghz in order core with a memory controller designed for cellphone SDRAM. High performance desktop memory is really different to the stuff used in cellphones - the buses are narrower and slower. Here's are the details for an Atom

      http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB73

      Note the bus speed, 533Mhz and the cache size, 512KB. By desktop standards the Atom is slow. Most Arm systems run memory much slower than this and have less cache. Look at the Snapdragon based Toshiba L01

      http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1855&view=1&c=toshiba_l01

      It uses "mobile DDR SDRAM". I don't know the clock speed, but look at this

      http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800457078_499486_NP_197bb814.HTM
      Hynix claims 'fastest' 512Mbit mobile DDR SDRAM with a 185Mhz clock speed.

      See the thing is that the sort of memory you get in a cellphone is a lot slower than the stuff you get in a desktop because the power budget is so much less. If you want to run desktop applications or emulate an x86 that will really bite you.

      Once you get past the OS it gets worse. Office is probably less portable than Windows and Office 200x runs terribly on an Atom and would be worse on Snapdragon given the lower performance memory. Most Windows applications will not be ported and will run even worse in emulation - a Snapdragon emulating x86 will be unusably slow.

      Of course maybe ARM will do a Jazelle style extension where common x86 instructions are turned into ARM ones via an extra pipeline stage. I think that would mean a Snapdragon chip would run x86 code say 90% as fast as an Atom at the same clockspeed. Still a 1Ghz Atom is not a quick chip.

      --
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    10. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by pseudonomous · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Microsoft already has Operating Systems that will run on the Arm architecture, Windows Mobile / WinCE, but I don't see what benefit you would get from using them, both taking your suggestion or using Windows Mobile would still leave an operating system that might look vaguely familiar, but still doesn't act quite like users would expect, that doesn't run much in the terms of familiar applications. I would think that, like with the Linux-based acer and msi netbooks, you would get a very high return rate on something like this.

    11. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Every single eee PC available (with Atom processors) on the market is x86, to my knowledge.

      That is correct, but I can't imagine why it's relevant. Did you mean to distinguish them from x86-64 or IA64? Or are you saying that all Atom-powered Eee's are not powered by ARM processors? That seems to be a vacuous truth.

      And for those of you skeptical of the speed:

      When the first Snapdragon-based devices hit the market later this year, they will have a 1GHz Arm processor core but that will increase to 1.3GHz next year, with the release of Qualcomm's Snapdragon 8650A, Pineda said.

      If the Netburst architecture taught us anything, it was that clock speed isn't everything.

      Has anyone found anything on how Android applications dependent on cell phone-ish hardware (like GPS location and the like) will be handled inside a device like the eee PC?

      Why would this would be any different than how it's handled in any other linux-based OS?

      You seem excited by the thought of a handheld computer. I have to ask, why do you want one? I don't think there's any market for them. We've had PDAs and many other more specialized handheld devices before, and there is certainly a niche for the 'smartphone' class of devices, but what would be the point of a general-purpose computer smaller than an Eee? Touchscreen or no, anything with a keyboard smaller than about seven inches is useful for SMS-length messages only. So unless you're going to invent a radically new method of user input, the market is already segmented based on that design decision. We either already have what you're talking about as far as a 'handheld computer', or it's not likely to happen.

      --
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    12. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Taxman415a · · Score: 4, Insightful

      See the thing is that the sort of memory you get in a cellphone is a lot slower than the stuff you get in a desktop because the power budget is so much less. If you want to run desktop applications or emulate an x86 that will really bite you.

      All interesting information you added, but for a netbook platform where the battery is an order of magnitude larger than a cellphone, what makes you think they can't put in a different memory controller with a wider bus to run regular sodimms? You'd still get all the power savings from the lower power chip and no active cooling, but without the performance hit you refer to.

    13. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by bzzfzz · · Score: 1

      Has anyone found anything on how Android applications dependent on cell phone-ish hardware (like GPS location and the like) will be handled inside a device like the eee PC?

      Well, the Android developers' kit includes emulation software so you can punch in whatever coordinates you like for testing, and there are plenty of cheap, small GPS modules on the market. I would imagine that application compatibility problems will manifest in other areas, like display size and performance, since software developers who initially targeted the G1 have not had an opportunity to test on unrelated devices until recently.

    14. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by mhall119 · · Score: 1

      Most Windows applications will not be ported and will run even worse in emulation - a Snapdragon emulating x86 will be unusably slow.

      This doesn't get said enough. Microsoft could run WinMobile on these, or even port Win7 to ARM, but without the vast ecosystems of Win32/x86 applications and drivers it will be useless.

      I expect that they will put their money into boosting development for WinMobile, as it already has an ARM-capable ecosystem, and probably pushing more pure .Net applications that would be portable across both architectures.

      Still, they will be the underdog in the ARM race, and they're not known for speed and flexibility in their development cycle, so it will require some pretty drastic changes for them to compete.

      --
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    15. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Vu1turEMaN · · Score: 1

      From the company-with-a-thousand-different-versions-of-the-same-thing, I would guess that they would buy a company that is developing an ARM OS and create a new WinCE-based solution to be a netbook OS.

      You could also consider that they would buy a company that would be developing a way to run an x86 OS (like Windows 7 Starter Edition) through ARM instead of porting it. There are a number of small groups and companies working on instruction comparison engines that would do such a thing for system-level applications and boot loaders.

      Again, I see them not actually caring about developing something for ARM if they have the possibility to buy a solution.

    16. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Bert64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem with windows ce/mobile is that it's advertised as being windows when it really isn't.. This creates the expectation of compatibility with desktop windows. The mobile versions of windows however are not compatible at all, either at the binary or source level (and most apps don't even come with source), such that there are very few available apps...
      An arm version of linux on the other hand really is linux, and has 99% of the same applications available for it, since in most cases it's just a case of a recompile.

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    17. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Locutus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      you do not know Microsoft. They live and breath by Windows and the Windows APIs and that product is why they still exist. It would be a very small fraction of todays company that would promote the use of another OS instead of Windows. The Windows OS brings in most of their profits and the extents they go to protect that marketshare should be an indicator of how tied to it they are.
       

      You'll see them making offers companies can't refuse and dumping billions into stopping the move to Linux before you'll see an MS Linux. They'll push Windows Mobile onto this platform or even port XP to ARM before there's an MS Linux or any MS nonWindows OS. IMO.
       

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    18. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is why Linux really stands to benefit...
      Even if windows were ported to arm, all of the applications would still need to be ported by their respective vendors, many of which wouldn't bother, or would release a castrated "mobile" version instead..

      Most commercial vendors won't port to a platform unless there is a sufficient market for it, and most customers won't buy a product unless there is already sufficient software availability.. A catch 22 that's already killed Itanium.

      Linux on the other hand, is already ported to arm, and most of the applications you would use on a typical linux desktop are also already ported... And any new open source applications being written would be trivially portable between various different processors too.

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    19. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.androidx86.org/ Android will make it to x86, just not there yet.

      I think Google is going after Microsoft's soft belly.. (WindowsME sucks, and Windows XP-Vista-7 hardware requirements are higher than optimal for low power devices).

      So instead of competing with Microsoft on the high end PC front, where you can't get a foothold, they are starting at the bottom and moving up.

    20. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      "Has anyone found anything on how Android applications dependent on cell phone-ish hardware (like GPS location and the like) will be handled inside a device like the eee PC?"

      Um, applications dependent on cellphone-ish hardware would probably not be installed on a device like the eeePC. Who needs SMS when you don't have cell service?

      Of course, a dialer would be cool if you implement UMA. Which would be cool on my G1. So I should root my G1 and install Ubuntu? Works for me. Right after I get the Cupcake stuff into a Ubuntu release. Why would I give up A2DP? Or does Ubuntu's BT stack have that already?

      --
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    21. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Vu1turEMaN · · Score: 1

      I misstated my reply...I meant that they would buy a company that is developing specifically for ARM and have them rework their current ARM-compatible OS into something usable on a netbook.

      I just don't predict them making any real effort to develop something on their own for an ARM-powered laptop/netbook without buying some outside help.

    22. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Vu1turEMaN · · Score: 1

      I messed up again. I meant that they would buy the outside company to rework WinCE for netbook/laptop use instead of doing it themselves.

    23. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Locutus · · Score: 1

      just like the iPhone is useless because it doesn't run Windows, just like the iPod is useless because it doesn't run Windows and just like a LinuxPC is useless because it doesn't run Windows.
       

      They could dump more into Windows Mobile but don't you think over $15 billion lost on that product in over 10 years is enough to show they suck at software development? I saw a guy the other day almost throw his phone and yes, it was Windows Mobile he was frustrated with. Companies who spend more on developing and less on marketing are doing say better. Again, the iPhone is an example.
       

      Regarding Windows 7, it took them 5 years to spit out Vista and it amazed me that they could not scale it down to fit on netbooks or embedded devices. We are not talking about the 1990s here, we are talking about recently developed and shipped OS and they spit out a bloated mess. So messy they had to rush out a trimmed down version and change the name. And you _still_ think they can port that to ARM and run on the hardware expecting to ship? Gawd, Microsoft had to have the hardware vendors boost the hardware of the first netbooks so that XP would run and could be useful( without anti-virus software ).
       

      They are behind the 8 ball on this one. This sector requires efficient software to get the performance, power, and price point for sub $300 devices and Microsoft is not technically capable of that and has never shown they could be. They are a marketing company first and foremost and just don't have the management skills to put out efficient, lowcost products. Moore's Law has finally failed them because people don't care so much about it. IMO.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    24. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      ARM + chipset runs at less than 1 watt? Or do you not know what "order of magnitude" means?

    25. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by schon · · Score: 1

      Its easier for Microsoft to just buy a company that has an ARM-compatible OS then to actually develop one.

      I'm confused by this statement. Why would they develop an ARM-compatable OS if they'd already bought one?

      Wouldn't they just use the one they bought instead?

      In any event, I find it hard to believe that MS's programmers would have such a hard time programming for ARM that they'd need an existing software base to copy from.

    26. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by IGnatius+T+Foobar · · Score: 1

      Microsoft better not be resting on its laurels and should either be beefing up Windows Mobile or porting Windows 7 to ARM ... or they're going to miss out big time again.

      Even if Microsoft were to port Windows to ARM, they would still lose. Windows on ARM has the same perceived disadvantage as Linux: it won't run the existing catalog of Windows x86 applications. Microsoft cheated its way into the netbook market by strongarming Asus and others into bulking up their netbooks until they were basically underpowered laptops that were barely good enough to run Windows XP. This time around they won't be able to do that. Even worse: customers who buy Windows-powered ARM netbooks thinking that they'll be able to load their favorite PC-Windows applications, are going to be returning them to the stores in big numbers.

      Linux and Android are well positioned to take advantage of ARM-based netbooks. This will be the generation of netbooks that actually look and act like netbooks (very small, very light, many hours of operation on a single charge) rather than underpowered laptops. Netbooks are higher-functioning smartphones, not lower-functioning laptops.

      Microsoft's fortunes are tied to x86, period. Microsoft's only hope of getting back into the game at this point is if Intel builds an Atom chip that sips power as daintily as an ARM.

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    27. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by horza · · Score: 4, Informative

      ARM + chipset runs at 0.5 watts, according to this CNET article from last June.

      Phillip.

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      Property for sale in Nice, France
    28. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 1

      F-u-d. WinMobile is API-compatible with Windows, so "all you need is a recompile" - except for the fact that the screen and input devices are totally different!

      In C# I do lots of my U/I development using the same source code with a 320x200 WinForms app and then compile and run the same source on PPC.

    29. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by horza · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why would you want to hobble an ARM processor by trying to run x86 cruft on it? A 1GHz ARM processor will blow away an equivalent x86 when running apps natively. If I was running desktop apps on a netbook I wouldn't even want something as heavy as OpenOffice, let alone a monolith like MS Office, I would want something like Abiword but with the OO import/export filters. As bert64 says, there is a wealth of Linux apps, and with Ubuntu netbook-friendly version coming you can bet their repository will fill quickly with ARM versions of all the apps.

      Phillip.

      --
      Property for sale in Nice, France
    30. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Vu1turEMaN · · Score: 1

      MS always has WinCE, which is ARM compatible. My statement is that if they wanted to adopt it for netbooks, they would simply buy a company that is in the process of developing an ARM OS and have them work on a netbook version of WinCE.

      I'm basically saying that MS has no interest on their own to develop an ARM OS specifically for netbooks unless they can find a company that is considering doing the same and then buying them out. They would need a whole new team of people for the specific task, and instead of opening up 50 new spots on their job site, they would just buy a company out.

    31. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      I can only guess that some people call MS a "marketing company first and foremost" because they don't want to admit that it might just produce products that a lot of people want or like.

      Which is the best example of MS's excellent marketing skills? Was it the hit slogan "Where do you want to go today?" or the popular and long-running "Gates and Seinfeld" ads?

      Seriously, MS spends a higher percentage on R&D than Apple and Steve Jobs has been at least an order of magnitude more effective promoting Apple than Gates or Ballmer.

      It would be much more accurate to say that Apple is a marketing company than MS. That doesn't mean Apple doesn't make good products, but let's get real.

    32. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      While I don't subscribe to the belief that everything Google does is smart, I'd wager they're going after the smartphone market leaders Symbian and RIM rather than 3rd or 4th place MS.

    33. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "Microsoft cheated its way into the netbook market by strongarming Asus and others into bulking up their netbooks until they were basically underpowered laptops that were barely good enough to run Windows XP."

      By "strongarming", do you mean paying them? Or perhaps offering an OS that runs programs people are familiar with?

      Be honest, if you could choose to get the profits from an XP-based netbook vs. the profits from a Linux-based netbook, which would you choose?

    34. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can tell you that my BeagleBoard setup runs phenomenally fast on a 500/600Mhz ARM chip and 256MB of RAM. It's more than acceptable for 99.9% of all the apps I've thrown at it... be it basic web browsing, or even more complex stuff like GPS. It's silent, it's slick... and in fact the only weak point in my opinion is its reliance on SD cards for storage since they're SLOW. However, given its interfaces there's no reason you couldn't build something to interface to SATA or at least mini IDE interfaces... and the USB bus is at least 2.0.

      Still, I can definitely see this going places. I bought the BeagleBoard to play with and it ended up becoming an actual usable system on my network. I am thinking of buying another one and building a car PC out of it :)

    35. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Sonic+McTails · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what your talking about, but Ubuntu on ARM is free as standard i386/amd64 Ubuntu: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/jaunty/release/ - images are available for the iMX51, and the NSLU2 (I have to dig the link out ofr that) as of Jaunty. People have gotten it running on the Breadboard.

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    36. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FAIL, shitcock.

    37. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Windows 2000 runs pretty snappy on an Atom processor.

      I'm using it because Office doesn't come with MSDN anymore.

      --
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    38. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by sznupi · · Score: 2, Informative

      One would think you would at least check wattage drain of ARM SoCs before comparing them to some x86...

      And those Snapdragons are actually relatively power-hungry...for an ARM! (comparable to Geode LX in performance would be 0.1 W probably, perhaps 0.2)

      --
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    39. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As far as I can tell they didn't do that with Snapdragon. It's a fast chip by Arm standards, but the memory subsystem is very similar to their previous chips. Then again that's probably because they're interested in selling chips for cellphones rather than notebooks.

      Now Snapdragon is great for the cellphones but and I don't see why they should start to build chips for the netbook market where Arm is competing at a massive disadvantage.

      The problem is a 2+Ghz, possibly out of order, Arm chip with fast busses, big caches (which means no space for onboard peripherals) and so on would not be very good for the cellphone market. Also chip development costs a fortune - Qualcomm spent tens of millions on a custom Arm implementation

      http://www.insidedsp.com/Articles/tabid/64/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/238/Qualcomm-Reveals-Details-on-Scorpion-Core.aspx

      Overall, Qualcomm has made a huge investment in creating a custom implementation of the ARMv7 architecture. By way of comparison, Texas Instruments customized just the layout for the Cortex-A8 for its OMAP3 chips, and it has been reported that the process took 45 engineers working for a period of years. If so, Scorpion's development probably represents an investment on the order of tens of millions of dollars. And what's the payoff?

      At first glance, it doesn't look like much-as noted earlier, Scorpion is expected to run at 1 GHz in a 65 nm process, which is slightly lower than the 1.1 GHz top speed that ARM currently quotes for the Cortex-A8 in 65 nm. Scorpion is quoted as providing 2100 DMIPS at 1 GHz; Cortex-A8 is quoted at 2000 DMIPS at the same speed. However, a notable difference is that the Cortex-A8 top speed is for a TSMC GP (general-purpose) process, while the Scorpion speed is for the LP (low-power) process. ARM quotes the speed of Cortex-A8 in an LP process as roughly 650 MHz, and although TI does not publicize the exact speed of the hand-crafted, low-power Cortex-A8 core used in its OMAP3 chips, BDTI has estimated that it runs at roughly 450 MHz. (BDTI's benchmark results for the Cortex-A8 are available at BDTIâ(TM)s website, www.BDTI.com.) Thus, Qualcomm expects Scorpion to run significantly faster than Cortex-A8 when both are implemented in the low-power processes commonly used for mobile applications.

      Building an Arm that could compete with x86 would cost even more, they're up against Intel, AMD and Via all of whom already have faster chips and such a chip would not be very popular in the cellphone market. Actually the cellphone market is probably bigger than the desktop x86 market and Snapdragon is the top performer or close to it.

      In some ways it reminds me of PowerPC. Apple ditched the architecture because the main PPC vendors wanted to concentrate on designing for the embedded world where they were selling in huge volumes to the detriment of the desktop world where Apple wanted to operate but where the volumes were tiny,

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    40. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      The parent may not want to run x86 cruft, but the mass market wants to run Windows apps.

      This means x86 cruft.

    41. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Here in the US, Symbian is almost unheard of, and Microsoft does quite well here in the smartphone market. (But, RIM definitely is a major player.)

    42. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Microsoft is big enough to push a migration to ARM, though. If Apple can pull it off, Microsoft sure as hell can.

      Just push out a silent update to Visual Studio that makes an ARM/IA32/AMD64 fat binary by default.

    43. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      It's worth noting that the ARM architecture has a different instruction set, which does a better job of not straining the memory. Often you can do things one byte at a time, or do multiple one byte things in a single clock.

      ARM CPUs are usually packed with tons of registers(way more than x86), so short functions can be blazing fast, and not require cache or memory thrashing.

      But these ways of reducing memory bandwidth consumption are counteracted by having everything share memory. GPU, Co-Processor, CPU, LCD, etc.

      Just keep in mind that as you optimize your code, and reduce memory consumption, you probably also reduced the memory bandwidth used. Native ARM programs can be extremely fast.

    44. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by niteice · · Score: 1

      Apple had the advantage of inheriting NeXT's already architecture-independent API, and all of their new code respected that. Unfortunately, Win32 is *mostly* source-compatible between architectures but not entirely - it's only recently that you start seeing explicit type sizes such as UINT32 instead of just UINT - you still often have to guess what that will be on your target architecture.

      Apple also inherited the Mach-O format, which encapsulates code for different architectures into a single binary - core system libraries often have code for ppc, ppc64, i386, and x86_64 all in one. PE binaries don't have that luxury, so you often see multiple binaries per architecture - proggy_x86.exe and proggy_x64.exe, for example. Imagine the confusion that would cause for your average user with ARM thrown into the mix.

      --
      ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
    45. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by eelke_klein · · Score: 1

      F-u-d. WinMobile is API-compatible with Windows, so "all you need is a recompile".

      Wrong any non trivial Windows desktop application cannot be recompiled for windows mobile as windows mobile implements only a very limited subset of the full Win32 API.

    46. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      Again, I see them not actually caring about developing something for ARM if they have the possibility to buy a solution.

      What solution? As far as desktop OSs go, there are only 9 Linux and BSD distributions that support it. Plus the iPhone's version of OS X. Where are they going to buy a solution from?

    47. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      Like Dos.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    48. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      I didn't think anyone was equating the devices to full blown laptops. Does anyone really want to work on a document on that small of a device? I'd have to be really jones'n to make an edit.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    49. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 1

      I take issue with the "very limited" subset part of your comment. Limited, yes but a lot of what you are thinking of is not the windows api. file io, process management, gdi, fonts, internet, com, .net s a lot of it is there. Some of the linux stuff won't be there on arm, so its unfair to say evertything linux is trivial and winmobile has "hardly anything". I know a LOT is there

    50. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Taxman415a · · Score: 1

      Yeah I'm really tempted to get one of those, but the major drawback to me is that they take so little RAM. If it could take 2 GB or so, then it would be really compelling. I realize that would kill it's power efficiency, but it would still be less than a tenth of what my current P4 desktop draws and probably in the same range of performance. But 256 makes a full Gnome dekstop with all the goodies that come with that less feasible, and I really like Gnome for the accessibility framework it has.

    51. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Vu1turEMaN · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has multiple ways to implement a Windows OS on an ARM-powered netbook, so that would be the solution that they are seeking. Most likely, they would be buying a development team to work on the specific netbook OS rather than have their phone crew from WinMo work on it.

    52. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Locutus · · Score: 1

      it is because their standard business methods are to use marketing tactics to win market share. dah. They leverage OEM deals to force OEMs to exclude non-Windows products, they leverage sales channels to exclude non-Windows products, they pay for "research" so often flawed and twisted it's obvious flaws are found on day one of the release, they have multi million dollar accounts to be used to keep large public accounts from bringing in OSS, they publish general FUD about the competition. I can go on and on about how they use marketing to be anti-competitive and how new technology companies have been terminated because the product didn't work ONLY on Windows.
       

      So what they spend more on R&D, it almost never makes it out the door and if you've ever been to something like eTech, Microsoft Research presentations are like going to a 2nd graders show and tell. Sure the presentation is all wiz-bang but the content is lacking. Most of the rest of the technology companies are showing game changing technologies and Microsoft will show a touch panel. Anyways, if you'd read one of the leaked MS memo's from the 90s, you'll know that the MS R&D money is often used to keep some of the brightest educational minds out of the hands of the competition. They have a play-pen to work in so they don't do something for someone in the real world that Microsoft will have to kill off with marketing tricks.
       

      That is why they are called a marketing company above being called a technology company. they can't even make a tiny handheld OS that worth a shit even after something like $100 billion were spent on it over the last 15 years. Windows CE/Mobile sucks while Apple in less than two years crushed them with a better product and with far far less people and dollars spent. And hey, Apple is making money off their handheld OS while Microsoft has been losing about $1 billion annually on Windows CE/Mobile for it's most of its entire life. They are NOT a technology company.
       

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    53. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by radarsat1 · · Score: 1

      Anyone else interested in the fact that it has an embedded DSP? I wonder what else that could be used for... hard real-time audio processing, for example?
      I wonder how much it is exposed to the system and through connectors..

    54. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pwned :)

    55. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Daengbo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Frankly speaking, the first question, I would like to apologize that, if you look at Asus booth we've decided not to display this product," he said. "I think you may have seen the devices on Qualcomm's booth but actually, I think this is a company decision so far we would not like to show this device. That's what I can tell you so far. I would like to apologize for that." -- http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133813

      Asus didn't actually want to show off the hardware, though, which I think is a strange thing indeed since the tech industry seems quite excited about the product and it looked ready to ship.

      When asked about rumors that Asustek faced pressure from Microsoft and Intel over the use of Android and Snapdragon in the Eee PC, Tsang said "no, pressure, none."

      Intel spokesman Nick Jacobs said, "our customers are always free to make the choices they want," and declined further comment on "rumors and speculation."

      Unless, of course, you are a netbook manufacturer which wants to put a dual-core Atom in your product. Intel has promised to "penalize" manufacturers that do that.

      Obviously, I don't believe a thing coming out of their mouths.

      --
      Put identity in the browser.
    56. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Taxman415a · · Score: 1

      Also good points, but the smart phone market is probably only moving up in processor performance desired too, at least for a segment of it. With a higher performing but still very low power draw ARM chip in a mobile computing platform it could be game changing. While some people have smart phones, it really could open up computing to the next several hundred million people if done right. 45 engineer years or tens of millions doesn't sound out of order to stay ahead of that type of opportunity.

    57. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      45 engineer years was what they needed to take an Arm Cortex A8 and rework it changing the clock speed from 600Mhz to 1Ghz on a given process.

      To compete with x86 you'd need to go quite a bit further than this. Actually I wonder if ARM is the right architecture for high performance desktop stuff - maybe it's a good architecture for simple single issue in order designs with shallow pipelines but not good if you want OOO, superscalar and superpipelined. The x86 chips AMD and Intel make tend to do all this stuff. They also break down x86 instructions into uops. No Arm chip does this but it seems to be key to decent x86 performance.

      I don't have Hennessy and Patterson to hand here, but I wonder if Arm's elegant instruction set might have some issues for uberchips. Apparently MIPS had the most pipeline friendly instruction set, and that is a really stripped down machine compared to Arm. Back when IA64 came out people argued that MIPS like Risc chips like Alpha weren't ideal for superscalar implementations because the processor has to schedule in hardware. IA64 was supposed to be Explicitly Parallel. Of course it turned out to be a turkey.

      Still my guess is that if you wanted to dethrone x86 you'd be better off picking an instruction set which was natural to implement in with OOO, superscalar and so on. Then like Risc it would be close to the way high performance desktop chips are implemented for a few generations and would have a built in advantage.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    58. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by LionMage · · Score: 1

      Even more impressive, the next generation Snapdragon (the QSD8672) is dual core, running at 1.5 GHz. I'd really like to get my hands on a netbook running that device!

      Has anyone found anything on how Android applications dependent on cell phone-ish hardware (like GPS location and the like) will be handled inside a device like the eee PC?

      Well, based on what I've been able to glean from the site linked in my previous paragraph, and a few other tidbits scattered elsewhere on the web, it looks as though this Snapdragon processor platform actually supplies all the logic to decode GPS and do most of the other cell phone-ish things that you'd care to do. Of course, there's no guarantee that manufacturers will actually implement all those features, but it's not for lack of hardware support. Just add antennas and support circuitry!

    59. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Taxman415a · · Score: 1

      Who said anything about dethroning or matching performance at the high end? ARM will probably never be able to beat what X86 can do at the top end, but the point is the large majority of what most people need to do isn't very far away from the top end of what ARM chips can do right now if it isn't already completely covered. So it's not about dethroning, it's about creating a new market and in those terms ARM has already won in many ways. There are already an order of magnitude more ARM chips out there. The question is just integrating some good higher end systems together, maybe raising the top end a bit, and making them cheap. 50-100% more performance would do a lot considering that current high end ARM systems can already run usable desktop systems. If you can get a $50 or less computer together that can run wordprocessing, a spreadsheet, and basic desktop apps, then you're really on the verge of opening up a new market. Add long battery life that ARM already has and you can solve much of the digital divide problems in the developing or even third world. That's not really that farfetched price wise at the current rate.

    60. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      MS already has an ARM OS, and it'd be relatively easy for them to make any of their OS's the base for a new ARM OS.

      The reason they don't pursue it with gusto is because Windows on ARM lacks the one thing that makes Window worth using: the extensive software library. No programmes compiled to run on i86 Windows will run on ARM Windows.

      Why else would anyone pick Windows over the competition, if not for the almost universal compatibility and endless back catalogue? Windows on ARM would be competing on a level playing field- not something MS are particularly wanting to devote themselves to.

    61. Re:Because Snapdragon Is an ARM Processor! by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      Incidentally, WinCE is already being sold on netbooks. Pretty rarely, but it still happens. http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=257308&source=1

      The rarity is probably more down to the rarity of ARM netbooks than anything else. WinCE is a pile of poo as is, but if the market for it was there then I'm sure MS would pour the money into it.

      Still not sure why you'd pick it over the alternatives, though.

  2. That's great, but... by DomNF15 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am less concerned with the OS than with the increased battery life/less weight in a device like this. As long as the OS supports mobile broadband cards from the major wireless carriers and some basic apps like web browsing and an office suite, I'd be happy.

    1. Re:That's great, but... by Locutus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      there should be no need for supporting "mobile broadband cards" with the universal 3G radio built into the Smartbooks. Unless they are misusing the term universal. The only difference between a netbook and a Smartbook is that the Smartbooks have the 3G radio builtin and the software to use it.

      I think Qualcomm has a hit here.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    2. Re:That's great, but... by DomNF15 · · Score: 1

      Universal is laughable in this context, especially in the USA. If the radio works with GSM carriers like AT&T, then it won't work on Verizon and Sprint's EVDO network, and vice versa. Even among GSM carriers the carrier frequencies may vary (which is why you need a "quad band" phone if you want it to work everywhere in the world).

      I think I'll take my chances with a Netbook/OS that supports multiple cards, instead of being locked into one carrier's service/device/app store etc. If you think they'll sell it to you without first locking it down to work only on their network, you're probably wrong...

    3. Re:That's great, but... by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 3, Informative

      But Qualcomm's Gobi chipset purportedly supports EV-DO and HSPA in a single chipset, thus it's at least technically possible that they have done exactly as they say. It even includes GPS... so long as you have room for all the antennae (dead space behind the screen for example) then it should be a non-issue to make it into a truly "multi-radio" machine.

      Hmm... wonder if Apple's been talking to Qualcomm for the next gen iPhone... ;)

    4. Re:That's great, but... by Taxman415a · · Score: 1

      According to the IDG article they are specifically claiming that it will work on all frequencies used around the world. Not sure how they plan to do that, but that's the claim.

      But that doesn't really matter, because you'll see that Asus is already backing off from Qualcom's announcement and claiming, "no, no, we haven't been pressured by MS or Intel not to release this device that would be an obvious hit." Man a device that can run for 8-9 hours with 3G connectivity? Sign me up. The only thing I'd want more is even more battery power. I don't care about it being thicker and heavier, but give me 24 hours of battery life so I can really be away from power and I think they'd have a game changer. That or a high powered ARM UMPC without a screen that I can plug my own portable keyboard into and monitor if I want. That would really rule since the battery life could rock.

    5. Re:That's great, but... by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Seriously, Give me enough unmetered bandwidth and a client to run VNC and RDP along with 8-9 hours of battery life, and I would be their in a heartbeat. At that point, I don't much care if it is running Windows, Linux, or AROS. Of course being able to play audio and video would sweeten the deal a bit.

  3. I still don't like netbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I ask for ARM UMPCs and get ARM netbooks.
    Keep try!

    1. Re:I still don't like netbooks by hattig · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually Qualcomm wants them to be called "smartbooks".

      http://www.nordichardware.com/news,9392.html

    2. Re:I still don't like netbooks by Locutus · · Score: 1

      The Nokia n810 is based on ARM and I thought a new model was supposed to be based on TI's OMAP3530 chip. That Pandora device is based on that chip and it's gonna scream. The Cortex-A8 design really boosted performance and still keeps much of the low power usage features.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  4. More smartphone than PC by InterBigs · · Score: 1

    Well the hip introduction video looks cool, but I'm afraid this will be more of a smartphone (sans the phone) than a laptop. But I guess that's OK if they can sell it below the price of the current eee's.
    I think I'd rather wait for Moblin before going the Android route.

    1. Re:More smartphone than PC by Locutus · · Score: 1

      except with a 10" screen, you can be much smarter about what you run. ie, you can run OOo, Firefox, Acrobat, etc on the Smartbook and have them be useful because there's enough screen space to do so. These won't have to have crippled Microsoft operating systems either.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  5. Like iPhone OS on iPod Touch, perhaps by tepples · · Score: 1

    Has anyone found anything on how Android applications dependent on cell phone-ish hardware (like GPS location and the like) will be handled inside a device like the eee PC?

    Likewise, has anyone found anything on how iPhone OS applications dependent on cell phone-ish hardware (like GPS location and the like) will be handled inside a device like the iPod Touch?

    1. Re:Like iPhone OS on iPod Touch, perhaps by PhilHibbs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Navigation apps aren't directly dependent on the GPS hardware, they are dependent on the Location API which will still return a position based on cell tower triangulation. I can't comment on "and the like" as that's a bit of a broad question, but in general they will all be calling API functions that I guess will return a default or error value if the hardware doesn't support it.

    2. Re:Like iPhone OS on iPod Touch, perhaps by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      The iPod Touch supports the Location API. I forget what is returned if no information is available, but I imagine it's the same as is done for the iPhone when GPS is turned off and you are not in a service area.

      Both the Touch and the iPhone will use Wifi AP location information, if available (as a fallback in the case of the iPhone).

  6. Keep an eye on google... by mc1138 · · Score: 1

    With their position at the top of the information world, and now branching out more and more everyday with products like android, and their new ebook venture, we're going to get to the point where google powers or integrates with just about everything. I both welcome this as their quality is usually top notch, and fear this as it means a potential breach of privacy by a private company that really no one will be able to stop...

    --
    The musings of just another geek and his junk.
    1. Re:Keep an eye on google... by doti · · Score: 4, Funny

      Cm'on, their motto is "do no evil".
      What can go wrong?

      --
      factor 966971: 966971
    2. Re:Keep an eye on google... by cellurl · · Score: 1

      Everyone loves everyone while its free.

      This minute you charge, people bitch.

      Funny story:

      My neighbor was playing sim-city.

      He was the mayor.

      If you have ever played it, you know that the city councilmen constant talk/complain to the mayor.

      My friend (the mayor) lowered taxes to 0.0%

      He said that even at 0-taxes, some councilmen still complained of high taxes!

    3. Re:Keep an eye on google... by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's, "Don't be evil." The difference is subtle but important. A lot of eggs get cracked in the production of that yummy omelette...

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    4. Re:Keep an eye on google... by bogeuh · · Score: 1

      Google perhaps doesn't share private data with others, but they sure as hell look at it themselves worldwide monopoly on targetted advertising brings in the big bucks im fine with it but if they don't already do it, you can be pretty sure that at some thime they will

  7. Overhead by eldavojohn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why port Android to x86 when you can just run Android apps in Ubuntu?

    Like I said in my post:

    but it looks like I'm left to emulating it (pretty much not an option considering the overhead).

    I tried doing this on a P4 with 2 gigs of DDR RAM a while ago in Ubuntu 8.04 if I recall correctly. It was slow as hell.

    I don't know if the SDK has since matured since then but I was trying to do their tutorial examples and I would experience really bad startup times ... like waiting minutes for everything to initialize. Sometimes it would bomb out before making it to the applications screen in the emulator. Maybe it was memory pagination? Anyway, I also assume the emulation stops you from efficiently using the hardware like the camera? Does the emulator have access to those? I could be wrong and I'll certainly give it a shot if I find reports of people online having no problem firing up Ubuntu on their eee PC and emulating Android and running an application on it no problem. As it stands, I'd probably just look for an alternative in Ubuntu to that application!

    Who knows? Maybe I'll sell this one and trade up when the new Snapdragons come out and I'll wean myself from the Microsoft teat entirely with only ARM Linux and applications? :-) I must guiltily admit that I kind of enjoy the dual boot though and am really just curious what Android would have to offer on a netbook.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Overhead by Sinning · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sorry for the confusion, I was referring more to this.

      Rather than running the Android SDK emulator.

      It looks to be a much more promising alternative to emulating the entire android OS.

  8. Wait for Pandora by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    I ask for ARM UMPCs and get ARM netbooks.

    Is an "ARM UMPC" essentially a PDA with a keyboard? If so, then wait for Pandora to enter mass production.

    1. Re:Wait for Pandora by tchuladdiass · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or the Nokia n810, which you can get for $200 now. Or wait for the next gen tablet. Actually, the next Maemo device coming from Nokia is actually going to be a phone, not a tablet, but rummer has it that they are still planning more tablet models.

    2. Re:Wait for Pandora by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with the n810 is that it is, at least in my experience, practically unusable for browsing the web. Pages render insanely slowly even with javascript and flash turned off. The device itself is really neat to read on though - its screen can handle anything from complete dark to having the sun shining directly on it.

  9. Does it have flash. by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    That is going to be a an issue for any netbook. This with the android store could really make an interesting system.
    Some people will say that it is just a big smart phone but there is no need to limit it to just smart phone like applications.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:Does it have flash. by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      You need hardware video codecs (which this thing has) to do the sort of thing that flash does.

      I have a 2.8 ghz celeron with 1.5 gigs of ram, and Hulu positively crawls. YouTube too for that matter.

      Windows is between 10 and 30% faster than the Linux version, on this hardware (bear in mind, this is due to the maturity of Adobe's Flash implementation. Windows XP itself is a resource hog.)

      I know what you're thinking, this thing has a screen that's only a quarter the size of yours, it has to be better. Problem is, I run Hulu videos 'popped out' so I can watch them at about the same size as a netbook screen. Fullscreen is not really a viable option.

      Moral of the story? Flash is a bad standard for video. We need something with hardware like Dirac or Theora, with zero dollar margins to get the codec, and we need it on everything.

    2. Re:Does it have flash. by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      "Moral of the story? Flash is a bad standard for video. We need something with hardware like Dirac or Theora, with zero dollar margins to get the codec, and we need it on everything."
      1. From what I hear Theora isn't great.
      2. Are you sure they would use less resources.
      3. One has to wonder if Flash with hardware support wouldn't be at least as fast as say the codec used for BluRay which ION handles just fine.

      A agree that Flash has issues but the moral of the story that is what we have today. I hear Silverlight is better but it just creeps me out for a number of reasons.

      I wonder if it wouldn't be better to write off Theora and put all our effort in to Dirac. From what I hear it is actually a better codec.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:Does it have flash. by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      There's also the question of MP3 patent expiration, which seems to be coming fairly soon. It feels like in the time it would take to arrive at a meaningful standard, MP3 will gracefully become public domain.

    4. Re:Does it have flash. by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      MP3 is audio not video.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  10. I want one! by wvmarle · · Score: 1

    The ultimate, nerdy, but very very useful boy-toy.

    I have the EEE 701 and I love it except for the smallish screen and too short battery life (can squeeze out 3-4 hrs by dimming the screen but that's it). 8-10 hrs sounds quite OK to me, getting usable. And built-in 3G radio: ultimate connectivity.

    1. Re:I want one! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't think the phrase "boy-toy" means what you think it means.

  11. Yes, but obvious question... by dvh.tosomja · · Score: 3, Funny

    Does it run windows?

    1. Re:Yes, but obvious question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would probably run the version designed for a phone. Oh wait...

    2. Re:Yes, but obvious question... by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      Sure. Just compile Qemu for ARM.

      --
      thegodmovie.com - watch it
  12. 'Asustek puts Android netbook on ice' by snydeq · · Score: 5, Informative

    Asustek appears to have already scuttled this project, calling the technology 'not mature' and disavowing any pressure from Microsoft and Intel over the use of Android and Snapdragon in the Eee PC.

    Of course, the Android-based Eee was demonstrated by Qualcomm, not Asustek. Yet, Asustek's distancing itself from the machine while competitors like Acer are announcing Android plans is a little bit intriguing.

    1. Re:'Asustek puts Android netbook on ice' by Locutus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      probably under contract with Microsoft. You know, the fine print that keeps showing up after 20 years of company lawyers being surprised by Microsoft's tactics. The funny thing about lawyers, each one thinks _they_ are smarter than the other lawyers and keep signing deals with Microsoft thinking they're getting away with something.
       

      It was obvious to me that they signed a deal with the devil when the next gen eEEPC's shipped. They used the 50/50 rule to say they ship 50% Linux systems and 50% Windows systems and that's why there were no Linux netbooks on store shelves. They boosted the hardware so Windows would run but then boosted the hardware more for the Linux versions and charged more for Linux. These are all signs of a "special" deal with Microsoft and they seem to be locked into this deal at the expense of the ARM systems. After all, if they can't ship Linux, how can they ship a viable ARM based system? So, ASUS can't play in this ARM netbook or Smartbook game and all they can do is try to put it down in an attempt to limit it's value and growth with marketing speak.
       

        So ASUS is out of the netbook/Smartbook game until their contract with Microsoft ends as far as I'm concerned. Windows is just not efficient enough to make a compelling small device OS.
       

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    2. Re:'Asustek puts Android netbook on ice' by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      After all, if they can't ship Linux, how can they ship a viable ARM based system?

      I thiink you've got that backwards. They can't ship ARM systems because they have to ship Windows (say, at 50% total systems shipped, or w/e the deal is). They can't afford to do two entirely different architectures, and the product diversification would confuse consumers, so they don't.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    3. Re:'Asustek puts Android netbook on ice' by Locutus · · Score: 1

      I might go with the idea that they "can't afford to do two entirely different architectures" but that bit about product diversification is bull. They boosted the hardware performance of the original EeePC to support Windows but instead of just selling that same hardware with Linux on it, they changed the hardware for the Linux models and then sold the Linux systems at more cost than the Windows versions. This too was probably a contract thing with Microsoft but the kicker is they allowed a contract requiring product diversification just to get funny money back from Microsoft. If it's that they have to ship Windows because of a Microsoft contract or can't ship ARM/Linux because of a Microsoft contract, it's the same thing. They are not in command of their own destiny by they their own greed and must sit out the ARM race. IMO.
       

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  13. heat by Kvasio · · Score: 1

    because the 1GHz Snapdragon processor that it uses does not require a heat sink or a cooling fan.

    Notebook also comes with sliced bread slot to make toasts.

    1. Re:heat by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Not even close. Other Cortex SoC on the market use around 250mW for a slightly slower speed, but including the DSP, GPU, flash and RAM. If you can toast bread with a 250mW device then I think a lot of toaster manufacturers would be interested in hearing from you.

      This is why I giggle when I read Intel describing the Atom as 'low power' at 2W for just the CPU, with the chipset, RAM, flash, and GPU all needing to be added on top of this.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  14. How will current apps cope? by riflemann · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are ~3500 android apps out there now, virtually every one of them written assuming HTC Dream hardware.

    It will be very interesting to see how they all cope when run on emerging hardware with vastly different characteristics and screens to the opening device.

    My own Android game is not exempt and will need better adaptability (yeah, hypocrite).

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    Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker
    1. Re:How will current apps cope? by schon · · Score: 1

      My own Android game is not exempt and will need better adaptability (yeah, hypocrite).

      I'd like to try it out, but that link doesn't work.

      $ host android-target.google.com
      Host android-target.google.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)

    2. Re:How will current apps cope? by riflemann · · Score: 1

      http://android-target.googlecode.com/ should be the correct one.

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      Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker
  15. Interesting, I suppose by bsDaemon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just bought an EeePC last Thursday because I wanted to see what all the fuss was about and because I determined that there was a niche to fill between my Toshiba (which is always hooked up to an external monitor, speakers, mouse, graphics tablet and all sorts of other things), and my BlackBerry Storm.I got it at best buy, and so of course all I really had for an option was Windows XP, and I'm not sure how it'd really do with Linux (I suppose if they've been selling Linux versions the hardware should all be compatible, but I spend enough time fussing with Linux on the servers at work to really want to do Linux of FreeBSD for a hobby anymore). I'm actually typing this on it now.

    I have yet to really play with Android, even though one of my coworkers has a G1, I just haven't really felt the urge to take it for a spin. The idea of having a "phone" OS on a "computer" seems a tad bit odd to me, but I suppose its just the opposite of the deal with the stripped-down OSX on the iPhone, which I have messed with a bit (I just don't feel like switching to AT&T or I'd probably pick one up... the only thing my Storm really has going for it is the tactile feedback to the depressible touch screen).

    Is there anything particularly special about Android over any other Linux distribution, other than the Google name, that makes it well suited for this type of application? From what I've read, it seems to be just a Linux kernel combined with Java phone crap and not really anything particularly special, though as I must admit, I've not really been following it too closely.

    1. Re:Interesting, I suppose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To start with, as Google themselves put it, Android is not Linux. In the sense that, yes, it uses the Linux kernel indeed, but the rest of the system is completely different (and incompatible) from your average Linux distribution.
      There's no C library, no GNU tools, and even the Java VM is not really Java, but something similar (and incompatible).

  16. Interesting... by GameMaster · · Score: 1

    If Asus ever decided to come out with a smart-phone they could call it the eeePhone and advertise it as "three 'e's are better than one 'i'" Of course, then they could easily be trumped by the ieeePhone...

    --

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    #1 - The DM is always right.
    #2 - If the DM is wrong, see rule #1
  17. I've only got one more point on my list unsolved by Qbertino · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As far as modern day handheld computers go, I have to say that the Asus EEE induced second coming of the Netbook and its liklings has had extremley positive side effects on the market in the last two years.

    Portability? Check.
    Openess and flexibility of plattform? Check.
    Price? Check.
    Versatility? Check.

    However, there is just one more thing I want before I can say they are on par with the mid-nineties PC handhelds that where available back then and could easyly keep up with their big desktop brothers in terms of getting the job done: Battery Uptime and/or easy replacement of battery.

    Let me explain: The HP 200LX, Sharp PC 3000, 3100 and its non-name rebrands ran on AA cells. And while the off-grid uptime was a meager 3,5 hours at max, you could easyly replace them with rechargeables or - in an emergency - with fresh AA cells from the next gas station or convenience store.
    I want that kind of battery time or convenience from todays handhelds aswell. If convenience is not an option, I want the same uptime I could get from my old Palm m105 with folding keyboard attached or from the original Psion Netbook: 40 hours. ... On the Palm that uptime came from 3 or 4 AAA cells btw - but that's another story.

    Substancially increased battery uptime without outlandish pricing - then handhelds are back in the game for me. It would be about time.

    My 2 cents.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  18. Re:Interesting, I suppose, I'll cut your head off. by miknix · · Score: 0

    it uses the Linux kernel indeed

    Linux *IS* the kernel.
    Geez, how many times do I have to tell?

  19. So let me get this straight... by ChaoticCoyote · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Android uses Linux, but isn't Linux (no standard libraries, for example).

    Android uses Java, but it isn't standard Java nor is it compatible with most Java apps.

    Android is open source, except for certain fiddly-bits they keep private.

    This is not the competition for Windows we've been looking for.

    --
    All about me
    1. Re:So let me get this straight... by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "This is not the competition for Windows we've been looking for."

      Your unlikely to find an effective competitor to Windows that meets your criteria.

      Google doesn't avoid using standard Java or standard Linux in Android for spurious reasons. They want to minimize resources and maximize performance in a constrained environment.

      The typical consumer is oblivious to Linux standard libraries or Java portability. From a business perspective these issues are only relevant to the extent that they produce value for the consumer relative to their cost.

      It's not clear that whatever benefits these internal features could bring to the table are direct enough to drive sales.

  20. Native mode by Corson · · Score: 1

    For Android OS to really take off an alternate window manager (native, non-Dalvik/Java-based) is required that would allow applications to run in native mode, even if Google don't support it.

  21. I want it NOW! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So when can I get my snapdragon powered mini-itx motherboard? It would make an ideal media centre.

  22. Microsoft marketing. by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

    Microsoft's best 'marketing slogan' was never heard by end users. "Pay for Windows on every box, and we'll give it to you really cheap".

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    Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    1. Re:Microsoft marketing. by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if that's really considered marketing or not. Of course, Apple's version is "Charge customers what we tell you and we'll let you sell them."

  23. Emulation's not as bad as you think by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

    You're right, but X86 emulation still has a place in the mix (to the extent that running x86 win32 binaries matters - a lot to some people).

    And x86 emulation doesn't mean you need to emulate the entire win32 api along with the application binary. As soon as the emulator makes any kind of system call, it can emulate that call in native code. Your average app probably spends 80% of its time in system calls, so emulation done that way works remarkably well (I assume that's how Apple's Rosetta works). Certainly in the usable range.

    That's why I think Linux + ARM WINE + a win32 binary would make an ARM Linux netbook more useful than an ARM Win7 netbook. Of course, there's nothing to prevent Microsoft from providing an equivalent (and more accurate) version of the same feature. But WINE ought to do it first - for mindshare if nothing else.

    --
    Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
  24. This is the future.ter by miffo.swe · · Score: 1

    I think that Snapdragon is a really interesting concept that could really fly if someone took it to Android. The ability to play video in 720i smooth and very good battery time is something that could really move smartbooks/netbooks. While im pretty convinced ASUS has gone into an agreemennt with Microsoft that forbids any linuxy stuff someone else will take the platform and run with it. The point of a netbook is not and has never been running a full desktop with all the bloat that brings. Thats Microsofts bastardisation of a netbook thats really more a small underpowered laptop.

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    HTTP/1.1 400
  25. Simple recompile... by nietsch · · Score: 1

    For Linux: yes. For android: no. The android OS is significantly different from a 'normal' linux distro. It runs a linux kernel, but the userland looks totally different. Android is java a very long way down, which means you have to rewrite your app. Not just in Java, but to Androids model of doing things.

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    This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
    1. Re:Simple recompile... by Sinning · · Score: 0

      or just do this

  26. Re:Interesting, I suppose, I'll cut your head off. by miknix · · Score: 1

    No funny? :(

  27. Re:I've only got one more point on my list unsolve by Daengbo · · Score: 1

    The Gecko EduBook uses AA batteries and the SoC uses 1.2 watts..

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    Put identity in the browser.
  28. Re:I've only got one more point on my list unsolve by sznupi · · Score: 1

    ...the Asus EEE induced second coming of the Netbook and its liklings...

    Wasn't it really induced by OLPC XO-1? Have we forgotten about it already?

    --
    One that hath name thou can not otter