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German Interior Ministers Seek Ban On Violent Games

GamePolitics reports that "Germany's 16 Interior Ministers have banded together to ask the Bundestag (Germany's equivalent of Parliament) to ban the production and distribution of violent video games. Moreover, the ministers hope to see this accomplished before Germany's new elections take place on September 27th." Violent games became a national issue in Germany earlier this year after Far Cry 2 was scapegoated for a shooting. Germany-based game developer Crytek could be forced to move or outsource if the ban goes through. Spiegel Online has the original story (Google translation).

28 of 222 comments (clear)

  1. First Post by hachi-control · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And first to say, the government hatred on freedom of any type has gone too far, and this is a perfect example.

    1. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I admire everyone's knee jerk reaction to defend video games via free speech I think this method of defense is inherently idiotic.

      If someone came up to me and accused me of murder I wouldn't base my case on freedom of privacy. I would hope my lawyer could simply disprove the actual charges against me.

      Fighting these sorts of things largely on free speech seems to imply that that video games are actually responsible for some sort of mayhem but should be protected anyway. They aren't dangerous. They don't pose a public threat and they shouldn't even be charged as such let alone 'allowed' to exist in spite of these accusations.

      People need to educate the voting public that the 12 year old next to them on the laughing and bragging about how he shot a rifle through someone's head yesterday and made it explode isn't a deraged lunatic.

      Video games out of context sound insane and dangerous. This is largely an educational problem which needs a good PR campaign. It's easier to defend something which people understand and like than it is to fight an abstract constitutional battle about the conflict between freedom and public well being.

    2. Re:First Post by bertoelcon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Video games can be dangerous, but anything can be used as a weapon. It is hard to inflict physical harm with a nonphysical object thou like a digital download.

      --
      Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
    3. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If someone came up to me and accused me of murder I wouldn't base my case on freedom of privacy. I would hope my lawyer could simply disprove the actual charges against me.

      You have it backwards. It would not be your responsibility to disprove anything. It would be the accuser's full burden to PROVE that you have murdered. Unless they can, then you shouldn't have to lift a finger or be inconvenienced by it.

    4. Re:First Post by KDR_11k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hell, even if videogames DO cause those murders, that's still several orders of magnitude less dangerous than tobacco or alcohol, neither of which is banned. You can probably find food products that kill more people per year than shooting rampages do. Also they're singling out videogames. Why not movies, books (I hear religious texts have inspired a lot of violence, those really shouldn't be in people's hands), music and maybe news reports about violence? Easy: Because these politicians already subject themselves to that kind of stuff and realize it's not a prolem (or if it was wouldn't want to declare themselves psychos).

      This is a completely ridiculous pile of bullshit. Shooting rampages are so rare and cause so few deaths that special legislation is not warranted against such a broad subject as videogames even if it were at fault (last time one happened the father got tried for severely lacking firearm safety and of course the kids in question are always in a situation where they get treated like dirt by everyone else anyway).

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    5. Re:First Post by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have it backwards. It would not be your responsibility to disprove anything. It would be the accuser's full burden to PROVE that you have murdered. Unless they can, then you shouldn't have to lift a finger or be inconvenienced by it.

      That is where the metaphor breaks down, as there is no such burden in the court of public opinion, and public opinion unchecked causes these things. If we ignore it and do nothing to correct people who for some reason think there is a proven link between violent videogames and actual violence, their elected officials aren't going to say "no, sorry, prove it."

    6. Re:First Post by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hell, even if videogames DO cause those murders, that's still several orders of magnitude less dangerous than tobacco or alcohol, neither of which is banned

      And ALL of which have big powerful industries behind them. We're talking about videogames like they're endangered. There is huge industry with lobbyists on our side. And anyway, senior citizens who think games are the devil are dying everyday, while kids who grew up playing games are reaching voting ages every day. Momentum and lobbyist money, if not organization and self-righteousness, are on our side, we don't need to panic every time some idiot government official says something stupid about videogames.

      Not to say "Let's not worry about it" lets just keep some perspective that these things aren't gaining much steam.

    7. Re:First Post by Nyder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe someone should point out the lack of video games didn't keep the Germans from oppressing most of europe during the first half of the 1900's.

      --
      Be seeing you...
  2. And this is the government... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    we're supposed to respect for their opinions on Scientology?

    1. Re:And this is the government... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned. In this particular case, a few are loonies and a few have good sense. Don't assume it's the same few people in each case.

    2. Re:And this is the government... by laron · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Control freaks will suffer no other control freaks in their territory.

      --
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
  3. Re:What about a ban... by ILoveCrack83 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But let us be honest. The people ruling that country now, do not even know what you are talking about. The whole world needs to grow up instead of looking for a scape goat.

  4. Re:Crytek by artor3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, but if they leave Germany, do you really think all the devs are going to follow? They'll end up with an entirely new team making games on the old IP, and it won't be the same.

    Hopefully, the politicians behind this get some sort of backlash from their constituents, and back down.

  5. Crytek.de by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    FUD - there is no word in TFA about Crytek being forced to outsource or similar - you know, banning sales != banning development.
    (Also, Germany produces lots of real world weapons for export only... )

  6. Godwin's law... by mail2345 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just got proven again with the tags. Is 10 min a new record? Anyway, what do they mean by violent? "Violent" could be twisted into a lot of things.

  7. Recession...not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hey we're really hurting on the economy, let's ban the idiots that dare run a successful business and bring needed tax revenue in! That'l fix the situation! How dare you try and run a business that may offend people in some way!

    1. Re:Recession...not? by koreaman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Gay marriage redux?

      In my opinion, it's the same issue. Self-righteous moral assholes trying to interfere with our private lives, to the detriment of everyone affected and sometimes even to everyone not directly affected (by reducing the economy...)

  8. Free Speech? Really? Best Defense? by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I admire everyone's knee jerk reaction to defend video games via free speech I think this method of defense is inherently idiotic.

    If someone came up to me and accused me of murder I wouldn't base my case on freedom of privacy. I would hope my lawyer could simply disprove the actual charges against me.

    Fighting these sorts of things largely on free speech seems to imply that that video games are actually responsible for some sort of mayhem but should be protected anyway. They aren't dangerous. They don't pose a public threat and they shouldn't even be charged as such let alone 'allowed' to exist in spite of these accusations.

    People need to educate the voting public that the 12 year old next to them on the laughing and bragging about how he shot a rifle through someone's head yesterday and made it explode isn't a deraged lunatic.

    Video games out of context sound insane and dangerous. This is largely an educational problem which needs a good PR campaign. It's easier to defend something which people understand and like than it is to fight an abstract constitutional battle about the conflict between freedom and public well being.

    1. Re:Free Speech? Really? Best Defense? by Yvanhoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm a grown up, the things I read, watch or play are my problem and my problem alone. If they were talking about banning games for kids, we could take another angle and argue over the influence of videogames. I'm an adult, I don't want to be considered like an irresponsible that will go on rampage because he watched Terminator or played Far Cry 2...

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  9. People don't want to believe in bad people by DreamsAreOkToo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People don't want to believe in bad people. Lets face it, some people are just rotten. It wasn't video games, it wasn't the comic books, or the rock music. Maybe something caused it other then nature, but if that's the case, I'm sure it was exposure to a lot of lead or a head injury that damaged a specific portion of the head during early childhood.

    Until we realize that some people are rotten, and everybody is responsible for themselves, we're going to continue to creating stupid laws that make the word a worse place to live in.

    1. Re:People don't want to believe in bad people by e9th · · Score: 3, Insightful
      People don't want to believe in bad people? This thread is inherently Godwinned, so I can point out that A. Hitler enjoyed popular support until it became evident that the war was lost. People wanted to believe in him, even elected him Chancellor, because he promised them solutions. Yete nobody wanted to analyze what those solutions entailed.

      It wasn't until after the war was over that you couldn't find even a single person who had ever supported him.

    2. Re:People don't want to believe in bad people by eiMichael · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Right, people just come out of the womb stabbing and biting everything in sight. Stop blaming shit on genetics just because it frees you of responsibility for your community. Worst case they have some testosterone production issue that makes them more aggressive, but even that doesn't make them rotten.

      Putting some teenager into murderer/rapist/assault prison for smoking a particular plant is rotten. Having to leave children at home unsupervised because both parents must work just to get paid minimum wage and can't afford proper child care is rotten. Calling other people rotten to free yourself of any responsibility for what happens on this planet is rotten. Grow up.

    3. Re:People don't want to believe in bad people by SquirrelsUnite · · Score: 2, Insightful

      More like people don't want to believe in complex problems that require a lot of attention and might not be possible to solve completely. They want simple solutions like banning violent games or installing metal detectors in schools.

      As for lead poisoning or head injuries being a major cause: that's a pretty weird guess. How about constant bullying combined by a (possibly in part genetic) antisocial personality and a tendency towards revenge. With some neglect from their environment these kids might not have the coping mechanisms some others do and violent games show an example for how to handle these situations.

  10. The True Sad Fact of this by arbiter1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Pretty much any game made now days could be considered violent, any game that you use a gun or weapon to attack something else. Hell even C&C could and games in that area since they have you trin to destroy the enemy.

    1. Re:The True Sad Fact of this by DeadPixels · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Show me a game that can't be painted as violent, and I'll show you Solitaire.

  11. Re:What about a ban... by bertoelcon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The whole world needs to grow up instead of looking for a scape goat.

    Everytime the world tries to grow up in one area it takes a step back in ways we already had correctly. It really just needs a happy medium on all levels.

    --
    Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
  12. Every election the same farce by meist3r · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Really, this is supposed to be the fabled "democracy" ancient greeks thought up? Oh no, wait. We've transformed that into a PR farce that every four years proves how rotten the people at the top are. Your votes don't matter. They are merely a numeral representation of how much you "don't" have to say. Lies, populism and ignorant phrase flinging wherever you look. None of this will matter AFTER the election that's why everything they tried to introduce lately was meant to be established before voters aren't important again. Look at our ministry of family and health. They neglected their resort for 3 1/2 years and all of a sudden when the election goes into the confrontation phase they start tossing around stuff like "DNS filters" and "address filtering" against alleged child pornography. All of which could be removed through application of existing laws but since they chose to balance the budget by cutting funds to investigators and connecting departments they now have to start flapping their arms REAALLY fast.

    Politicians are lying pricks that are always a couple of decades behind when it comes to reality. Unfortunately this generalization stands to be disproven for all of the major parties in my country. They can't stop anyone from selling these games to me and if they do I'll personally book a cheap ticket to one of our less ridiculous neighboring countries. Other than that I or someone else will sue at the surpreme court that no government can tell an adult tax payer what to watch or what to play. Not unless they give up all their ludicrous make-belief jobs. This will all die down when these shit elections are finally over. Remember: Vote Pirate!

  13. The Nazis are back in power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The Nazis are back in power except this time round they have the technology to stifle the opposition without the need for bloodshed.

    Little by little, more and more is becoming illegal. What was once the realm of interpersonal relationships is slowly being taken over by the state. They will now tell you what you can say and what you cannot say, which game you can play and which you cannot. Soon they will tell you which flag you can wave and what you must think. It will be illegal to not like things which the state supports and to dislike things which the state dislikes - we're part way there already, and not only in Germany. There's not a lot I like about US politics, but one thing I do admire about the US is the freedom of speech enshrined in the constitution. Be glad you have it. It doesn't exist in Europe and I am not aware of any other country where it is protected.