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11-Year-Old Graduates With Degree In Astrophysics
Gotenosente writes "11-Year-Old Moshe Kai Cavalin has graduated from East Los Angeles Community College with a degree in astrophysics. 'At a time when his peers are finishing 6th grade, this only child of a Taiwanese mother and an Israeli father is trying on a cap and gown preparing to graduate with a 4.0 from community college.' The article continues with a quotation by the boy, hinting at his modesty, 'I don't consider myself a genius because there are 6.5 billion people in this world and each one is smart in his or her own way.' Daniel Judge, Cavalin's statistics professor, says, 'Most students think that things should be harder than they are and they put these mental blocks in front of them and they make things harder than they should be. In the case of Moshe, he sees right through the complications.'"
Once again, I'm not trying to detract from his accomplishments but this isn't exactly as intensive as a four year bachelor's of science.
I was looking for a course plan from that college but could not find one for astrophysics
Leaves a bit to be desired. Is it possible to "get" a degree in physics (let alone a special area of physics) with the most advanced course being "Optics and Modern Physics?" I think in my undergrad we touched on relativity in required physics courses with several advanced courses devoted entirely to it and its special forms.
My work here is dung.
There is one thing this boy wonder does not like.
"I feel it's a waste of time playing video games, I feel its a waste of time and it's not helping humanity in any way."
And GamePolitics' Andrew Eisen notes:
Perhaps a rather odd statement coming from a lad whose passions include martial arts, scuba diving and playing piano. He also aspires to be a movie actor.
I found that amusing that he finds some form of entertainment to (music & movies) to benefit humanity more so than games. I wonder if he's ever played Settlers of Catan?
My work here is dung.
Its not rocket science after all
I thought genius was defined as something like an IQ in the 98th percentile or higher.
By the way, most preteens don't have the emotional maturity to succeed in a "normal" college social environment. I'm not saying they can't succeed academically, it's just unlikely they will "fit in" in most college social organizations. We all need to be with our social peers.
Community college is a bit different as there's less of a social environment. On-line school is also a huge opportunity for "non-traditional" students such as those too young to drive or old enough to not be carded.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Think you're smart, kid? Well, I can still kick your ass at teatherball. (I hope.)
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
"I don't consider myself a genius because there are 6.5 billion people in this world and each one is smart in his or her own way."
Clearly he has never read Youtube comments.
I like to study just because knowledge goes to wisdom and only by wisdom can we help the world
Wow, what a kid. All the best to him.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Brilliant little kid, I must say. And I am very glad that he is given the recognition he deserves.
However, I'd like to point out that every time we see an extraordinary case like his, there are countless other examples that are half way there. What I mean is that why do only the "super-genius" kids get to advance faster in schools and colleges? What about those people that are smart and dedicated enough to pass through say high-school in 1-2 years, rather than the usual 5-6. Instead these people are forced to stay 5-6 years doing highschool. Same thing with college.
Not everyone is meant to fit into the average of society. That is why we allow people to repeat grade levels and university subjects. So why not go the other way and allow above average students, or students with above average dedication to finish faster. Sounds like a double standard to me.
Hum, being so precocious, he is probably very intelligent. Why then go to community college? I am not entirely familiar with US education system, but I was under the impression that these places were considered much less challenging.
\u262D = \u5350
Seriously, I was impressed until I saw the community college part. This is most likely just a publicity stunt to bring more attention to their crappy little campus.
If he was really all that impressive, a real university would have sponsored him, particularly since they would probably turn him over to research work until an age appropriate for the working community and in the process developing a sizable portfolio of research and (most likely) publications.
If I was too young to buy booze and be interested in chicks I probably could have got an A+ too. Show off....
And around here you can't even get higher than 5.
I think as we grow more aware of the extraordinary talents and focuses of those that are on the autism spectrum, we will see more of these fast-track through college kids. People with autism spectrum disorders tend to develop intellectually much faster, but when it comes to dealing with the real world, are usually way behind their peers. One big clue is that he sees no purpose to games. The unpredictability is probably overwhelming to him at this point in his development. If he has motor-coordination issues, that could also make him dislike sports.
So, we'll come to accept people like this for who they are, give them an outlet for their early intellectual development, and also provide a society that supports the fact that emotionally they may be far behind their peers. That sounds like a much better world than one that treats ASD's as a disease or freakshow. While is IQ may qualify as genius, I hope his parents realize that he may very well be disabled in other areas of functioning, and give him the proper support. Too often, people like this feel enormous pressure, and get no support for their weaknesses.
Sorry this is off-topic but this makes me boil:
Saying "I'm not a genius because there are 6.5 billion people" is not humility, it's selflessness. He's 11, I don't blame him, but why does the article extol this as some kind of virtue. There's nothing virtuous in making deliberately biased assessments against oneself. Humility is about objectively acknowledging fallibility. Saying "Indeed I am very precocious and I do qualify as a "child prodigy", however, you should refrain from drawing too much conclusions as many geniuses were late bloomers, etc". That's humility. Self-dissing isn't.
\u262D = \u5350
or to take away from an 11yr old's accomplishments...
but is a Community College seriously giving out degrees in astrophysics?
What other certificate course do they have? a 12 month Doctorate in Rocketry Science?
Perhaps a 6 month Masters in Physiology with a special emphasis in Cardiology.
You can even double major in Small Engine Repair, and this week we have specials if you combo with Massage Therapy or Hair Design.
Anyway joking aside I am sure it was a wonderful experience for him, and I would guess the parents have a large role here in motivating him, likely by promoting the idea of education and learning as both desirable and fun. Genius or no, he is probably a smart kid who is likely mature for his years.
Kai Cavalin has graduated from East Los Angeles Community College
I'm sure he's more brilliant than I'll ever to close to, but wouldn't it have made sense to go to a real university if he's that smart?
Here's some Doogie Howser music, if you miss the intro, like I do (for some bizarre reason) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3qt3k_alternate-doogie-howser-md-tv-intro_fun
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
com'on now, dont you get 30 points automaticlly for writting your name? Maybe an extra 10 if you spell it correctly....
Our social peers? Allow me to laugh derisively. Ha. Ha. Ha.
Being different in school SUCKS ASS. At least in college people are sufficiently grown up to not be assholes 100 percent of the time.
Social peers is all to often a nice waying of saying "hang out with the half wits". There is a lot of value being put on "functioning well in groups" that for certain people mean they get to learn that they really don't want to be part of any group that they haven't selected for themselves.
I've had a wonderful time, but this wasn't it -- Groucho Marx
Daniel Judge, Cavalin's statistics professor says, "Most students think that things should be harder than they are and they put these mental blocks in front of them and they make things harder than they should be.
I've heard it before. It's not the teacher's inability to teach, but it is the student's fault. The "Fear of Math" syndrome. People need to wake up to the reality that success is largely based on environment. If people, for example, don't have access to astro-physics books, then they are unlikely to be astrophysicists. And educational attainment has more to do with one's parents and up-bringing than with one's own inherent intellectual ability.
I'd be more impressed if this child didn't have access to books and preferential treatment from parents and teachers and succeeded on his own to become an astrophysicist. I would also prefer to see professor Daniel Judge fired from his job for his inability to teach students.
It's really impressive to see a child prodigy, but do they go on to achieve more in life than the "average" smart crowd that goes through a more normal progression?
The option to advance faster is available, but recommended against. School isn't just about mental development, it is social development as well, and that is something that seems to be harder to accelerate.
When I was going in to first grade, my parents were offered the option to skip me ahead a grade. Whatever test it was I took showed I was far enough ahead to skip a grade. Apparently it actually showed I was far enough ahead to skip more than one, but one was all they offered. However my mom (a teacher) decided against it for social reasons.
I'm glad she did. I'm sure I would have done fine academically, school was never all that great a challenge for me. I probably could have skipped grades a few times and graduated at a young age... but to what end? I had enough trouble with socialization, as many geeks do, that wouldn't have helped at all. Especially since one valuable lesson I learned in school is yes, maybe you are smarter than many people, but that doesn't make you better than them. Don't look down at someone just because they aren't as smart as you.
Also, what do you do if you graduate early? University would suck. You'd be practically the only non-adult there. Just loaf around the house for a few years? That's not a good idea.
So really I think it makes sense to keep kids in school until a regular graduation time. Instead, just offer opportunities to learn more. My school was pretty good about there. There was advanced placement classes in some subjects, plenty of extra curricular activities and so on. I think that's a much better idea than trying to rush through school and then be a minor, yet be expected to enter the real world. The growing up part is important too. No need to rush it. You've got lots and lots of time to be an adult.
As for university, I dunno about where you went but where I went you could complete it as fast as you could handle. You can CLEP a lot of stuff, and with a dean's permission take as many units as would fit in your schedule. Completing a degree in 2 years would be an amazing amount of work, but perfectly doable if you could handle the load.
How much are you willing to bet that he just said that for the reporters (or was told to say that BY the reporters)? If I were 11, I would be bragging away. Also, 1st comment is right - he rushed through on an easy degree. He should come back when he gets his doctorate - that's the real test. Just as an anecdote - I could have been taking university courses at 15 or 16 (virtually anyone with a grade 9-level education can, since the rest is basically rehashing and enhancing on whatever is already learned), but many universities simply do not allow minors to enroll, whether they have a high school diploma or not. It's likely there was an exception made for him, and he was also likely homeschooled (unless he got his HS diploma by age 9). This is similar to the 9-year-old judge and all 'prodigies'. Many of them, especially ones in objective fields deserve their degrees, but you wonder sometimes about whether connections made more of a difference in trailblazing a path for his future.
Yet Another Tech Blog
(but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
The Sims doesn't count
which is totally what she said
You see this happen all the time they push kids who are really smart so hard they fizzle out. I went to a special school for "gifted" children and most of my friends were burned out by their mid 20's. Not to mention depressed because they didn't make their first million by the age of 25. I "gave up" dropped contact with all my smart friends and got a "civil service" job. Ignorance truly is bliss, if your not freaked out by the state of the world you probably don't understand what is going on. The world doesn't know what to do with gifted people and gifted people are sideswiped by the fact that even though logically and by all reason they should succeed they don't. The world just doesn't work that way.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." -Thomas Szasz
I am not sure why this is newsworthy. When I was a freshman in college, one of the kids on our floor was a 14 year old starting his PHd in Computer Science. He already had his bachelors from UC Berkeley. He fit in ok, and we properly corrupted him, and he had his PHd by 17. I know other kids who did similar things. The academic work is not THAT difficult for lots of younger kids. Socially it is a bit harder, but many of the kids who decide to go to college do so not just because they are academically ready, but because they have trouble fitting in with kids their own age. Hell, I took many college courses while I was in middle and high school. We even talked about skipping grades, but I liked the social and athletic aspects of middle and highschool too much. Sure, the work was easy... which gave me more time to mess around and be a kid. For these kids, they clearly do not enjoy the social experience of highschool, so they skip it. It isn't like the kid is some sort of mad genius.
com'on now, dont you get 30 points automaticlly for writting your name? Maybe an extra 10 if you spell it correctly....
"your name". "it".
Ha! 40 points, bitches!
Bow-ties are cool.
Oh yea... Well I bet he hasn't been laid. ...
Oh wait neither have I. fuck!
Read up on John Von Neumann.
At six years old, he memorized pages out of phone books faster than most people could read them as a party trick. As an adult, he invented modern computer memory architecture, made foundational advances in quantum mechanics, invented the entire field of game theory, and helped work on the nuclear bomb.
No, no. You're assuming he actually means it. More likely is the possibility that when he says "I'm not a genius because there are 6.5 billion people with unique gifts" he knows it isn't true, but is a good way to keep the other 11-year-olds from kicking his smart ass.
Exactly.. That's the point of the post. Most guys would give you a high five if you said something like that, but it was pretty traumatic for me.
I'm 38 now, went through therapy for 5 years, blew boatloads of cash on women and shit I can't remember. Took me through college to get over the idea that sex was some horrible, dirty thing.
I'm lucky though. Got a beautiful kid, beautiful wife (ex-model, still looks it), a decent bank account (still got to work, but don't think much about things like Recession).
It's all fucking relative. My best buddy is probably worth $20M but would stick a knife in my back if he'd make a buck off it. I think he hangs around me because it makes him feel charitable, so he knows what the "tough life" is. Which is pretty freaking hilarious since I grew up soft, with parents who struggled just to make sure I always had enough to eat, place to stay.
Mod this as a troll, I don't care, but it's tough getting over some 40yr old woman making your 14 year old penis bleed because you're scared of the woman and just can't make your equipment work.
One of his primary interests is "wormholes," a hypothetical scientific phenomenon connected to Albert Einstein's theory of relativity. It has been theorized that if such holes do exist in space, they could â" in tandem with black holes â" allow for the kind of space-age time travel seen in science fiction.
"space-age time travel"?
"Just like black holes, they suck in particulate objects, and also like black holes, they also travel at escape velocity, which is, the speed to get out of there is faster than the speed of light," Cavalin says. "I'd like to prove that wormholes are really there and prove all the theories are correct."
"they also travel at escape velocity"?
Actually, though, we pick on him - about it being a community college, about his hokey "everyone is smart in their own way" line, etc. - but it does sound like he's a pretty smart kid, who's hopefully developing the kind of attitude which will help him avoid turning into a condescending prick later on.
His attitude about video games - from a practical standpoint he's exactly right. Video games are a major time-sink. If you're someone who wants to achieve things, that kind of time-sink can be a real problem. Honestly I feel like it'll become something of a dilemma for me, especially once I have kids. I really enjoy games, but I don't want them to be how I spend all my time... And likewise, I wouldn't particularly want to deprive my little ones of the joys of gaming - but I don't want them to fall into it like a trap, either. There's so much a person can do when they're young - I wouldn't want them to waste that time the way I generally did.
Bow-ties are cool.
Yeah, but it's -10 points for misspelling automatically when there's a spell-check function in the browser...
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Yes, but people with astrophysics degrees haven't been laid by dirty old men, so it all balances out.
May the Maths Be with you!
of public school failure. I have a BS in both chemistry and mathematics, minored in physics. Have a PhD in Physical Chemistry ,Theory. A successful career in research. I almost didn't graduate high school- failed most of my math, failed physics and chemistry. Ended with less than a 2.0 in my core classes, and had to petitioned to graduate. It's hard for me to say exactly why. That was 20 years ago, and my memory is a bit foggy. Luckily, my state university admitted me based on promising entrance exam scores. Mom and Dad didn't go to college, so they weren't really in a good position to line me out for it. I wasn't invited to my high school's prep sessions for the college entrance exams. I think they assumed I wouldn't be interested. I have always been into science type stuff. I read Einstein's primer on special relativity in high school. Loved pop science stuff - Brief History of Time, anything by Sagan, and so forth. Somehow none of my high school teachers were able to capitalize on it. Maybe it was because they didn't have much going on, themselves. I remember my high school physics teacher commenting that he went into education because he couldn't quite make the general physics curriculum. This was in the context of explaining just how hard quantum mechanics was, and that nobody really understood it. Well, I understand it, and use it frequently. It's fun for me to think about because it's so weird. It would have been nice if the special, advanced classes I had in grade school had a counterpart in my high school. Wonder where I would be now.
46 & 2
MENSA requires an IQ in the top 2%. I am a member, and trust me, that does not make a genius. A true "genius" would probably be in the Triple Nine club (99.9 percentile). But many people in either of these, are as regular as you and I, as dumb as your neighbor that never picks up his garbage cans, or as crazy as the cat lady down the street. Intelligence has pretty much zero affect on a person's successes or happiness. In fact I made a chart about it. I make a lot of charts.
No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
is a second degree in maths and he's well on his way to waiting at the dole queue on monday.
-subtraho
there are exactly zero community colleges that have accredited astrophysics programs. they simply don't have the funding, equipment, or facilities to carry out the experiments and other "hands-on" curriculum.
what's really interesting about this post:
PHYSICS 001 Mechanics of Solids
PHYSICS 002 Mechanics of Fluids, Heat and Sound
PHYSICS 003 Electricity and Magnetism
PHYSICS 004 Optics and Modern Physics
PHYSICS 006 General Physics I
PHYSICS 007 General Physics II
PHYSICS 011 Introductory Physics
PHYSICS 021 General Physics I with Calculus
PHYSICS 022 General Physics II with Calculus
is that all the course numbers start with 0. This is usually a sign of either a) remedial courses or b) non-accredited programs.
I understand that graduating with any sort of college degree at the age of 11 is very impressive, but this is simply NOT a degree in astrophysics, and doesn't really even approach it. Another dead give away that this is a totally bogus degree is that it's an Associates Degree of Liberal Arts. Physics, in any form, is NOT a liberal art. Being that it's not, at the very least, an Associates Degree of Science (which is still pretty shady for "astrophysics" since it's VERY theoretical) raises a huge red flag. I would be very surprised to find that even half of the credits for the courses he took are accepted at any 4 year university offering a Bachelor's of Science in Physics.
You should probably have left eligibility as a boolean; casting to int might imply something illegal.
"there are 6.5 billion people in this world"
The real number is much closer to 7 billion by now.
Is this the kind of idiot we're handing out degrees to these days?
-- Boycott Shell
You should probably have left eligibility as a boolean; casting to int might imply something illegal.
Not in Utah!
Didn't your mother ever teach you to not use a $20 word where a $5 word will do? ;)
Nonsense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with improving the vocabulary of preliterate Slashdot readers, and the practice should be actively encouraged.
We see far too much of the "This is Spot. See Spot run." type of narrative in most text these days (actively encouraged by MBAs with an excessive tendency towards Powerpointisation and the attention span of a flea), and there is no reason to apologise for enriching others' lives with interesting language.
In fact, I would suggest that it would be beneficial to everybody to spend at least an hour or so every so often reading some really great poetry (John Donne comes uppermost in my mind, but whatever rocks one's boat). And no, I don't mean as part of any school curriculum (unless you want to): if it isn't done for "fun", there is absolutely no point in it.
You know what's not typical nowadays? Modesty, honesty, and respect.
So, let's see, here...
Modesty? You want everyone, at every level of capability or regardless of how much work they've put into what they do, to be considered equal? You think that kids should receive accolades for showing up, rather than for busting their asses and actually doing something? You think that the kids who do nothing but Wii all day should be held in the same esteem as a kid who racks up a degree in astrophysics by age eleven? This isn't about the kid with the brains and dedication, you idiot. It's about all of the average or sub-average kids who are being told the lie that they are already just as smart as he is. Which does nothing but distort their view of the world, and undermine any sense of urgency they might have to better themselves and get ready for real work in their lives - the better to be able to take it all in stride and thrive. It's not about the eleven year old graduate's modesty or lack of it. It's about the vaporware foundation for the self esteem that all of his lazier counterparts are being propped up on (only to come crashing down, later).
Honesty? Do you really think it's honest to tell all of this hard working kid's peers that they're all just as smart as he is? To diminish what he's done by telling all of those kids that hard, difficult work really doesn't matter and that everyone is the same... and that everyone should get the same outcome in their lives regardless of whether they hustle and study and work hard and focus, or not? Is that honestly how you think the world should be? Everyone gets the same of everything, no matter how hard they're willing to work, how well they teach themselves to focus on a task, and no matter how inspired they are, compared to everyone else?
Respect? Yeah, I can tell you have a lot of respect for the kid that did the hard work, here. You want to make sure that nobody else feels bad for not, themselves having a degree in astrophysics at eleven years old. I suppose that your own way of showing respect would be to now give those out to all of the other eleven year olds in the neighborhood, so none of them feel bad about having no idea what such a degree even represents? Way to respect the other eleven year olds, there. Make sure they go into life completely confused about what gets them from point A to point B. Disarm them of any critical thinking skills. Very respectful of you.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
you should have disrobed.
You have a gift with words. It's almost like we can see the spittle on your monitor!
And you have an interesting way of avoiding the substance of the matter. Which, actually, is quite in keeping with your earlier comment - so, I suppose that's fitting. All comments are of equal substance! Every comment is just as smart, in its own way, as any other! I can't believe how subtle and clever you are, making your point that way. Of course we're all just as clever, in our own ways, so I guess you're nothing special. Or are you? I guess we're all extraordinary! I think everyone should get tenure, a Nobel Prize, and a cabinet position in the new administration, just for showing up.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
he is STILL willing to entertain the possibility that any other individual may be substantially better at something than he is
... is quite possibly BS. Knowing that you don't have a magic Shield O' Specialness around you, no matter how much your grandmother seems to imply that that's the case, can be an important part of realizing the need to actually pursue and develop some actual specialness before you're too far along in life. Why short circuit that process of coming to terms with that reality by assuring everyone that they're magically unique and just as smart (in their own way!) as an unusually bright student who's truly a one in a million sort of kid?
Sure. But he actually asserts that "each one is" (emphasis mine). That's the part that chafes. It's wishful thinking that, said out loud, won't impact his life at all, but will impact the lives of people who will uncomfortably discover - when they get to their first job - that at least some of what their mom and their junior high school social studies teacher said to them about how very special they personally are
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.